Paypal Randomizers

[mike927]

I realize that Matrixes can be dishonest and illegal. What about Paypal randomizers? Are they illegal? Or just wrong? Or not work?

Thanks...

[asdffhjglj]

I would like to know the answer for your question as well, I've seen lot of randomizer website around asking for $5-$25 to sign up and claim that member will received lifetime payment to their stormpay/paypal accout...

[concerned]

As far as I can tell, they are just another form of ponzi scheme. It is really easy to tell these kind of things because of 1 reason. If your money is used to pay someone that was there before you, chances are that it is a ponzi. There will still be a whole lot of people that don't win.

Now, I have never quite really understood why they put so much effort into these lame things. From what I have seen, an average randomizer gets about 40-50 customers per year. At $5 per person, that is only $200-$300 possible earnings per year, if you are lucky enough to get all the signups. In reality, at most you could probably make about $15, which is just a complete waste of time.

[jackye]

Thank you for the voice of intellingence... Suddenly, I feel more educated and less idiot now.

[tgkrishna]

yes, you say randomizers are waste of time to earn money online, but which are really works, legal and not scam?

[Webwatch]

Welcome to Matrixwatch tgkrishna,
Forgive me for over-generalising this a bit but from what I gather all these schemes just get you to pay a set figure say $5 in the hope that someone in the future will use your refferal id to join, normally $1-$2 goes to admin so following the money trail all they are is a scheme for the Primary Randomizer Generator (admin) to make money.

Even if your name is randomly generated say 1 in every 100 times (working on 100 members) there is no guarantee that someone will join at the moment your id appears.

As these schemes are just based on an online raffle they seem a waste of money to me.

As I said at the beginning though this is a generalisation so if you have any particular scheme you want to discuss please let us know.

[Dreamer]

I had a post awhile ago that shows exactly why they dont work, so, I'll just give a brief explanation here.

If you are an existing member, for every new member, so long as its completely random, you have exactly 1/x chance of getting their payment. So, if you are the very first person, you are guaranteed to receive your payment back once the second person comes along, but then there is usually an admin fee to join that you have to recover, which will probably be 1/2 of the payment, so you need to get one more random payment.

But for every person who joins, you have less chance. With 2 people, you have 50/50 chance of getting. Thats not bad. But, if you dont get it there, by the third person you only have 1/3 chance of receiving a payment, which is a good batting average, however, it doesnt stay. From there on your chances get worse and worse.

But, lets say you start off near the beginning at position 10. Not bad. Adding up all the percentages, it will take 17 more people in order for your probability to gain 1 random payment (not breaking even yet) And it will take 61 people after you to statistically gain 2 payments. If you choose a number between 1 and 6 and roll a 6 sided dice 12 times you are not guaranteed to get that number 2 times. So, even with 71 total people, you are not guaranteed to get 2 payments.

Now, that 71st person, he will need 520 total people to statistically get 2 payments, which will net him approximately 1/2 payment. Big deal.

So, if your the 10th person, and you think it will last up to 520 people, you should receive approximately 4 whole payments, minus 1.5x initial cost, you made 2.5x payment.

Now, some have tried to change the rules, and allow you to purchase weights so that your random name will appear more often. That doesnt work, because lets say you can buy 10 weights. Everybody will buy 10 weights and everybody be back at the starting point.

Now, the question is it a scam? Yes. Only the early birds can hope to make any money, much like a ponzi and every other scam. And the true winner is the admin who collects money for no reason but offering people a chance of making money.

Is it illegial? Ask a lawyer. But, I would think so since its only cash transactions with no goods or services being bought or sold. It is no different then a chain letter in which you send 5 people $1 each andput your name on a list. Instead of 5, you are only sending 1 person money, and hope the next person who joins the program sees your name.

[tgkrishna]

Dear Dreamer,
from you: "I would think so since its only cash transactions with no goods or services being bought or sold."

But i observed, randomizers are offering few scripts and software free , also referral link to the customer. I joined few programmes, earned well by posting my links in message boards. Here letus forget, how much Admin will earn. Most people will join and forget the programme. This is one time play but, not dangerous than gambling casino, i think. Search google "paypal stormpay randomizers tgkrishna".

[Webwatch]

As more and more people become somewhat savy to these schemes coupled with the competion of other schemes so the neccesity to offer something for your money is needed.
If all that is offered is freely available software/ ebooks/ scripts etc then its still nothing more than an online raffle or a type of chain letter as Dreamer says.

I'm trying to stay as open minded as possible so I hope a certain scheme with "Dollars" in the web address isn't mentioned just yet.

[Dreamer]

randomizers are offering few scripts and software free

The legal argument will be is the scripts and software offered worth the price paid for when starting the randomizers? The answer will always be no. And to save time arguing, the simple logic would be, a majoritiy of the purchase price is sent to some random strange person that you never met. What is the logic of that? What is that random person giving you for the money you are sending them? Nothing.

And just remember a few things. 1. If the site gets sued for doing illegial activities, you can be brought in as a defendent for profitting off of it. Thats been done. 2. People dont like to be scammed, and you will be looked at as nothing more then a scammer to those who dont make any money.

There is an article somewhere about this lady who was big into chain letters until she found out it was illegial. One day she applied for a job, the person recognized her name from a chain letter and would not hire her for that. All yo need to do is piss of the one person who will mail bomb you, or anything else.

And I hope the mods here will edit your post and delete your search google terms so that nobody falls victim to you. I'm sure thats the only reason you came here to try to plug your own randomizer you are supporting.

[sisco50]

My brief experience with randomizers a couple of years ago told me not to waste my time with them anymore. I was one of the few lucky ones that managed to get my money back in the very beginning. I even got in on a $50.00 randomizer and broke even. But I never made any money. The owner of the randomizer site made all the money with his/her admin fees. Esdpecially the additional weights that one could purchase. This is really where you are throwing your money away.

Bottom line... don't waste your time. There is no money in it unless you own the site.

[tgkrishna]

And I hope the mods here will edit your post and delete your search google terms so that nobody falls victim to you. I'm sure thats the only reason you came here to try to plug your own randomizer you are supporting.

Must be removed, you are very strict with your job here. People are not visiting such sites by hearing you.

let me know scam free sites.

[Dreamer]

Must be removed, you are very strict with your job here

I have no job here. I'm not a mod here. Nothing I say here reflects anything of MW. It is of my own opinion that I post and thats all. The reason I post here because I do not like to see people being lied to and scammed. And it is of my opinion, and maybe mine only, that the only reason you are here is because you want to push your randomizer so you can get paid more money.

And if the mods here just dont care enough to allow you to post a link, albiet a google search terms, here for your scam, then so be it.

[mercinary]

And if the mods here just dont care enough to allow you to post a link, albiet a google search terms, here for your scam, then so be it.

Dreamer:

I'm going to allow the google search terms to stick for the moment. I think given the arguments / comment given on this thread, someone would be pretty unintelligent to go looking to sign up for this randomizer. I think we have proved that the math just doesn't work....most people never make money in a randomizer.

-Merc

[ycchen]

randomizer is just another revised ponzi -- pure money game.

It is less attractive than the classical ponzi (early birds win and defend the scam), thus it will only last for a very short period of time, e.g. 2 months.

It is fundametally unethical scam. So, why would anyone want to participate in a scam? ;)

[sisco50]

randomizer is just another revised ponzi -- pure money game.

It is less attractive than the classical ponzi (early birds win and defend the scam), thus it will only last for a very short period of time, e.g. 2 months.

It is fundametally unethical scam. So, why would anyone want to participate in a scam? ;)


Most of the ones I've seen last only a few weeks. Two months seems like a very long time for a randomizer. Just because the site stays up a while does not mean there is any activity there.

[Webwatch]

As this thread was bought back to life by tgkrishna I was expecting a referral link to appear but to be fair there isn't one yet.
The google search terms mentioned will lead to other forums and message boards where a particular randomizer with "Dollars" in the address is mentioned.

I would have removed a referral link if one appeared.
As posting google search words is not against the TOU I canot remove them.

The randomizer site I have visited does nothing more than show a different referral id everytime the page is refreshed which helped me understand how these randomizers work.

These randomizers appear no better than the Paypal chain letter e-mails where you send say $3 and add you e-mail addy to the list and forward it to everyone you know.

The hope of the admin must be that the amounts are so small and the potential return is so great that enough people will give it a try, coupled with a bit of free software or a free e-book may entice a few to give them a go.

[concerned]

Dear Dreamer,
But i observed, randomizers are offering few scripts and software free

Just using your words. They are offering scripts for FREE, meaning you still aren't purchasing them. It is just a weak attempt at making the site look legit. I think you don't understand that games of chance that aren't regulated will be deemed illegal.