Lawsuit Update, 02/01/04

[MatrixWatch]

Thank you everyone for you patience while we awaited the results of a recent hearing for one of the lawsuits. We would like to thank all the matrix customers, and even matrix supporters, for their input on this important issue. We have all been involved in this together, and we will continue to do so as things progress in the case this year.

The Summary

It is important for the customers to know that the process of a big lawsuit will have its share of both victories and set-backs during the course of its journey through the courts. A few months ago we had an accomplishment, where we were permitted to clarify our charges against the pay companies. On Thursday however, we were dealt a setback not against the matrix sites, but against the pay companies. A set-back that is by no means an end to what we are fighting for on behalf of all matrix customers.

The Facts

We regret to announce that the lawsuit against Ginix, PaySystems, Paypal and Neovi Data Corporation has been dealt a set back. On Friday, January 29th, an Orange County Superior Court judge ruled that the payment processors cannot be held legally responsible for the illegal matrix sites even if they knew of the illegal operations. This ruling will be appealed as it was not supported by the law of California. A final decision on this legal issue is at least a year away. The ruling has no effect on the portion of the lawsuit against Shelby Ware and Damion Flynn. The judge did not rule the matrix sites were legal. He assumed they were illegal but held the payment processors are still not responsible. Default judgments will be entered against Ware and/or Flynn in the next 60 days. Shelby Ware is a fugitive and the status of Damion Flynn is unclear. Mr. Flynn should contact the Lakeshore Law Center as soon as possible to avoid entry of default.

The Future

As expressed above, this decision will be promptly appealled, so our quest for justice is not over, nor are the various other lawsuits. MatrixWatch.org will continue to keep the customers updated on all the most recent changes. If and when there are any judgements on your behalf, you will be promptly informed.

Again, it is important to understand that this ruling only relates to the portion of our lawsuit against a few of the pay companies (not matrix sites), and this decision will be appealled. This decision would actually affirm that the matrix sites are operating contrary to the law. Those owners who have been named in this lawsuit are in serious trouble. By no means should anyone take this news to understand that it is now okay to start a new matrix site, or take it to mean that the matrix sites operating currently are doing no wrong.

[spydrman]

Shelby Ware is a fugitive and the status of Damion Flynn is unclear.

I haven't seen either of these people posting on any of the forums lately, and Damion never replied to my latest email. He's usually pretty quick to respond at his windvds email too, so I guess he's just ignoring me. The part about Shelby Ware being a fugitive, what did he do? And does this mean authorities are looking for him to arrest?

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by spydrman
I haven't seen either of these people posting on any of the forums lately, and Damion never replied to my latest email. He's usually pretty quick to respond at his windvds email too, so I guess he's just ignoring me. The part about Shelby Ware being a fugitive, what did he do? And does this mean authorities are looking for him to arrest?

You can be rest assured that the authorities are handling this matter in an appropriate manner. If you need to contact our lawyer about this situation then please feel free to do so.

It is clear that these matrix sites are total scams, and that many people have been negatively affected by their false, get-rich-quick promises. We would like to strongly caution the members of the forum to guard themselves against matrix scammers posing as agents of help. If you need assistance or advice, please contact a lawyer, or ours. Do not respond to any mysterious emails asking you for information pertaining to Shelby, Damion, the pay companies, or EzExpo. The person sending this email could be someone trying to get info on either you or Shelby/Damion/EzExpo. In any case we don't want anything underhanded to happen to anyone. It is best that we allow the authorities to handle matters as they see fit, so if you do receive one of these emails then contact your local authorities.

Also be on the lookout for people spreading false information and speculations on various other forums. We are in direct communication with legal counsel on the matters at hand and, as promised over the past 9 months, we will continue to bring you up-to-date information on these matters. It would be no surprise if those financially tied to EzExpo were to pose on the forums as helpful, fellow customers. Don't buy into it.

Anyone speaking in defence of EzExpo has obviously not been scammed by them, and these people would do whatever they could to take the focus of the issues and point the finger of blame somewhere else. I believe the customers are much more wise than to listen to anything like this anymore. It is no different than back when aliases were invented to post false testimonials and stories about how fast they cycled. The same people are behind it now.

[spydrman]

I was communicating with Damion since Shelby never replied to any of my emails over the months after I bought into a matrix. I paid with a money order and was seeing what he could do to help me, and basically he said there's nothing he can do. Then he stopped replying to me. It will be interesting to see what happens as more develops in this case. Especially with the money that the payment processors are holding.

[mikv]

Well if the Pay Processors cannot be held responsible, does that mean that all the "frozen" funds are thiers to keep?

[damion]

spydrman:
I have not stopped emailing you. I reply to every email I received. If I did not reply to you it is because I never received an email from you.


mikv:
The payment processors cannot hold the money without reason. They can, however, eat all the money away with legal fees. They will definately not release the money as long as they feel there is any potential liability and an appeals process, however unlikely, is still a potential liability to which they will eat more money from anything left to use to defend against it. I am unsure what is left in Ginix but the last I heard from Paysystems is there was only a small amount of money left. The attorneys for Paysystems were high-dollar attorneys according to them.


watchdog:
I appreciate your keeping everyone informed. I do however believe you are giving people unrealistic expectations of the outcome of the appeals process. 9 times out of 10 times, an appeals judge is going to hold the previous judge's ruling unless there is new evidence or missed evidence in the first round.
As far as a default judgement against me....There is no reason I should have to contact your attorney. He has my phone number as well as my address, as do you. I sent in my response to the lawsuit months ago and paid my fees to do so. If your attorney needs to contact me - he has my number.

As far as Shelby goes, people can stop emailing and calling me asking about him. I have no clue where he is now and have not talked to him in months.


I am sorry to all those that may have questions for me as I have not been on the boards much. I have been working 2 full time jobs to recoop from the money I lost in EZ Expo and have not had much time to get on the forums and answer questions like I used to. For this I apologize as I know people have questions that I could help clarify the answers to.


Until next time,
Damion

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by mikv
Well if the Pay Processors cannot be held responsible, does that mean that all the "frozen" funds are thiers to keep?

That is a great question mikv. Please notice what I said about this being a set back (not an end), and how we are soon appealing. There are other lawsuits still in the mix, so all is not said and done in any respect. We will continue to push this forward because we firmly believe and observe that the ruling was not supported by the law of California. We are doing everything possible for the benefit of the customers.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by damion

watchdog:
I appreciate your keeping everyone informed. I do however believe you are giving people unrealistic expectations of the outcome of the appeals process. 9 times out of 10 times, an appeals judge is going to hold the previous judge's ruling unless there is new evidence or missed evidence in the first round.
As far as a default judgement against me....There is no reason I should have to contact your attorney. He has my phone number as well as my address, as do you. I sent in my response to the lawsuit months ago and paid my fees to do so. If your attorney needs to contact me - he has my number. [/B]

Damion,
Thank you for making a presence here on the forums. A great deal of what I stated above came straight from my attorney. I am not attempting to instigate any quarrels with you. I would recommend that you contact Jeffrey ASAP, because he is very serious about what he said. I am not aware of all the details on this matter, but he has requested that you contact him if you want to avoid what is happening to Shelby.

Also, it would be appreciated if you would cease telling people these odd things about how 9 out of 10 appeals are unsuccessful and that pay companies can spend the customer's money on legal fees. If they are ruled against then they will need to pay whatever is decreed, and they cannot just say, "Oh sorry, we spent it all already". Please state the name of the law which says that companies can be ruled to pay damages to victims and then claim their legal fees against that judgement amount. Regarding appealls, Jeffrey is a fantastic appellate lawyer and we need not doubt his abilities in that arena.

It would also be great if EzExpo would stop trying make this class-action lawsuit a scapegoat for the fact that they ran a scam operation. We have seen how other non-litigated matrix sites took off with everyone's money anyway, and it is quite clear that EzExpo would have done the same eventually even if they were not sued. Matrix customers are sick of dealing with this cycle of closures, and that is why they have responded with so many lawsuits against both the matrix sites and their pay companies. It is easy for the site owners to blame MatrixWatch.org, myself, or other customers, but the people are smart enough to see through that smoke screen.

It is understood by many that you are more well spoken than Shelby. This explains why you are more well received than him as well. However, your words do not distract us from the fact that your name is on that PaySystems account, and if the customers' class-action lawsuit is successful then that money will go back to the customers instead of to you. For reasons obvious to our understanding of human nature you do not want that to happen. The fact is that you still see that money as yours, and not the customers'. That is a perception that must be confronted by your own conscience, and I'm sure you have thought through it already. Our opinion here at MatrixWatch.org is that the money was gathered from customers through an illegal-lottery/pyramid scheme, and whether or not the customers were taking a conscious risk is completely irrelevant. It is against the law to collect money in this manner, and that is why we are fighting for restitution on behalf of the customers who choose to collect on that judgement should it come.

[damion]

Watchdog:
The statement about 9 out of 10 may be an exageration. The point that I was trying to get across is that many judges will uphold the decision of the previous judge unless significant differences were there.

I will contact your attorney out of morbid curiousity, however, I have to wonder about how hard he is really working for you if he cannot take 2 minutes out of his schedule to call me if he needed something.

As far as the lawsuit being a "scapegoat".....I never claimed that. My only question concerning this entire thing is why my name was ever put on it being that I was long out of the picture by the time you purchased and started this suit. The only thing I have ever really said negative towards you and your suit is the fact that if I am forced to defend myself, I will countersue for damages as I cannot afford to be dealing with this time wise or financially.
Everything else I have said with as much of a neutral approach as possible.

I never said that Paysystems would not have to pay up if they lost. My statement about the money being exhausted in legal fees is that I doubt very seriously you are going to win an appeal (purely opinionated) and that once it is finished there will be no money coming to me to "run off with" as so many people have so eloquently put it. I counted all money in Paysystems gone months ago (as soon as I saw the lawsuit information) because I knew that it would be either eaten up by legal fees or just sitting there so long I could not do anything with anyways so all I can do at this point is work my butt off and try to recoop my losses from this.

I am going to bed now - have to be up in 4 hours to get ready for my first job. I will try to take a look in here during the course of tomorrow.

Damion

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by damion

As far as the lawsuit being a "scapegoat".....I never claimed that. My only question concerning this entire thing is why my name was ever put on it being that I was long out of the picture by the time you purchased and started this suit.

...all I can do at this point is work my butt off and try to recoop my losses from this.


I am glad that you have decided to contact Jeffrey. If I could make one comment on what you have said it would be that even though you claim you were "out of the picture when I came along" the lawsuit names all customers as members of the class--from the beginning to the end. As I recall, you were still involved with customers on the EzExpo forums after March 2003, and windvds.com was helping EzExpo (and other matrix sites) with advertising even up until the lawsuit. To say you were totally clear of the area, like when a person sells a home and then moves out of the state, is not exactly the full story.

Also, I think that you would agree with me when I say that most of this came about because of your decision to transfer the administration of EzExpo to Shelby, not because of WatchDog and MatrixWatch.org.

And regarding the money in the PaySystems account: Even if they use the money in that account to pay legal fees, I highly doubt that they will be able to claim it all gone if they are ruled against. Your speculations about the result of an appeal are your own (which you have admitted, thank you for your honesty).

I will agree though, that you have been rather civil and somewhat cooperative, and I personally believe that counts for something at least.

[hello]

I can't wait for this whole thing to finally end.

[spydrman]

I took a law class in high school, and I know some of the basics and how the system works. While the lawsuit is being appealed, I think the big factor is how each judge interprets the law. New evidence? I'm pretty sure the case has already been made against ezexpo and the matrix sites. Every lawyer and judge interprets the law a bit differently. For example, Damion your lawyer found nothing wrong with ezexpo.com before you opened the site. However, not every lawyer would feel the same way. It would have been in your best interest to consult more than one lawyer on the issue, and find out each one's legal opinion.

The same thing happens all the time at the Supreme Court level, where the justices vote to overturn certain laws. They usually share a difference in opinion.

I think the same thing applies here in this case, where an appeal is in process. A different judge will be looking at the case. How he interprets the current federal and state laws in CA will determine the outcome of the case. It's hard to say what will happen in this case.

One thing is for sure, Shelby disappeared and left all the customers hanging. I really hope the lawsuit is in favor of the customers.

[Creator]

I have a question, as I'm fuzzy on California civil code. I probably should have asked Mr. Wilens when I spoke to him on the phone a few weeks back regarding some things I've seen going on on this web site, but got caught up in other topics with him.

Supposing these people Damion and Shelby don't do something stupid, fail to appear, and get handed default judgments against them: when(not if) you lose your case against the matrix sites(as I told your counsel on the phone a couple of weeks back, the lottery argument is awfully thin and I would put the odds 90/10 in favor of it failing), does California code allow for the defendants(i.e. the matrix owners) to recoup legal fees and actual damages back against you? I'm genuinely curious on this topic, and really don't wish to spend the time researching it to find the answer. I only ask because in some states, a countersuit for such fees and damages is allowed when a suit with no legal basis is brought before the courts. I ask this because I'm still trying to understand why somebody would invest the amount of time, effort, and money that has obviously been put into this case not only for no tangible gain, but in the process running the risk of paying for all sides of litigation.

On a side note, to "Watchdog". From what I can gather, you are the owner/operator of this web site, correct? I have no idea if Mr. Wilens relayed my message to you after I spoke to him last month with regards to some things that need to change here, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that he did not. As I told him, I must insist that all references to committing credit card fraud must be removed from this site(i.e. advising people to dispute charges as "unauthorized", "not mine", "Unallowed", et al--or in general with regards to people who reside in states that "matrix" sites have not been deemed illegal), and the references to "Ebay watchdogs" removed as well. I have in my possession copies of emails sent by your self-titled "Watchdogs" that are presented in such a manner as such that it gives the buyer on Ebay the mistaken impression and insinuation that your web site and your "Watchdogs" are in some way affiliated with/under the direction of Ebay, when this is obviously not the case. The buyers then come here after being directed to do so, and find official looking legal advice(inaccurate though it may be), requests for donations, and "articles" presented in such a manner as though they had been created by reputable news sources and are factual in nature, when in fact they were editorials created by members of this site, based on opinions, and no actual legal backing. As I told Mr. Wilens, the insinuations that this group is comprised of Ebay associates needs to cease immediately.

I say this because you people gave bad advise to my nephew, who was basically smoke and mirrored into believing that this site gave professional, sound legal advice, and ended up spending a weekend in FDC SeaTac in Seattle Washington under suspicion of fraud as a result of that advise...to which I had to fly clear across the country in order to get him out of the mess created by all this hocus pocus.

Now--all I asked Mr. Wilens for back then was for these matters to be addressed, and to be issued an apology by you for the headache, heartache, and complications this site caused with its misleading aura to not only myself, but my nephew as well(of which I have to this day not received).

Fair warning: I'm not letting this drop. I will be back at this web site one week from today. I will be scouring it. If I find so much as one reference advocating fraud in any of its various forms via lying to credit card companies and telling consumers to report charges as "unauthorized" etc....if I find one reference referring to your group as the "Ebay" Watchdogs(note the quotations), your lawsuit against all these companies will be the least of your worries--you'll have me to contend with. Your Watchdogs/official moderators sent unsolicited mail to my nephew directing him to this site, which asks for donations. By state law, that email defines minimal contact with a resident of this state. By soliciting donations, that makes you liable to all laws regarding not only charities, but corporations. By establishing minimal contact, you are under the jurisdiction of this state, and can be sued in any court of competency in this state from General Sessions on up under our state's "longarm" law. You are also subject to this state's laws, which I know quite well as an attorney who specializes in credit law.

Your web site is dangerous. The advise you provide can drastically alter a person's life, and I shudder to think what might have happened to my nephew had he not had me to rely on, and to get him out of the situation he was placed in. Get this site in compliance, remove the advise that even insinuates illegal activity, quit the copyright infringement that gives people the false impression that you are Ebay associates, or I will force its removal and bury you in a judgment to my nephew so deep, you'll be a hundred before you pay it off.

[MatrixWatch]

Creator,

We do not advise people to file illegal/unauthorized chargebacks. A while back there was a wave of optimisn moving through the matrix community that a customer could tell his/her credit-card company that they never received a product (e-book), and thus a chargeback against the matrix site's account would occur. Back when this happened I strictly warned customers against this, and did not allow that type of advise here. There were/are other forums out there though from which matrix customers could get this advice. It is quite possible that a matrix customer could have been advised to file a chargeback in this way, and then came here to ask something like, "Can I file a chargeback?", to which we would respond, "Yes, you can, but..." The customer would then move ahead with the combined advice, get himself into some trouble, and then turn around and blame the site with the donations account.

If and when advice regarding chargebacks has shown up here it has been prefaced upon the imperative that the customer contact his/her credit-card company or bank and ask them to investigate whether or not the matrix sites were doing business in a way contrary to their stated policies. There are credit companies out there that were reversing the charges after investigating the matrix sites and determining that the customer's complaint was reasonable enough in initiate a chargeback. We never told a customer to file a chargeback by stating that they (the customer) did not initiate the charge, or that a product was never received from the matrix site. This is a lie, and it is against the law. However, customers are still entitled to file chargebacks, and when we advise customers to do so we tell the customer to be straightforward and honest with their bank about the situation. Matrix sites are scams, and many credit-card customers are entitled to protection from scams of these sorts.

I am sorry to hear about what your nephew endured, and I am glad that he had you to help him. If you have his username here at Matrix Watch, then I would be happy to investigate what happened. We certainly strive to inform customers against fraudulent activities outside of MatrixWatch, and an opportunity to do the same for customers inside MatrixWatch would be great.

Regarding the "eBay Watch Dogs", eBay is well aware of what we call the group here, and we have pledged our full cooperation with them should they decide to ask us to change the name. So far, they have not requested that we do this. If you are an eBay official, then contact my attorney. A full explanation of this has been listed in our "Terms" folder under the forums page. In fact, a great deal of what you have brought up has also been explained there. These Terms were written back in May, and revised in early June, 2003.

Thank you for taking the time to raise these questions and issues. It is good to see someone become as involved as you are, although I am sorry to hear that this involvement was initiated in the way it was.

[dbright]

I'd like to address the Ebay situation for a moment. Contacting ebay members currently bidding on an ebay auction is against ebay policy and could constitute auction interference........HOWEVER........
Creator, any registered member of ebay IS EMPOWERED BY EBAY TO REPORT ANY AND ALL AUCTIONS THAT VIOLATE LISTING POLICIES.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE MATRIX AUCTIONS VIOLATES SEVERAL OF EBAY'S LISTING POLICIES....the most important one offering to sell an item outside ebay, costing ebay their fees.

Ebay has pulled EVERY SINGLE AUCTION that has been reported in time for them to do something about it.

There are many groups and individuals out there that use ebay and/or paypal in the website name....paypalsucks.com for instance. Notice that paypal can't shut them down.

I or any one else on this site can refer to themselves as an "Ebay watchdog" since we do exactly what ebay likes it's members to do......report auctions that violate ebay policies. It is in no way some type of misrepresentation since everyone who offers advice concerning ebay auctions is a registered member of Ebay.

[MatrixWatch]

On September 28th, 2003 at 9:54 PM I posted a message on our forums regarding chargebacks. Shortly after that message was posted a problem happened with our server, and we had to resort to a backup we had fortunately done about 3 days prior. We only lost under a dozen posts, and this post was included in that group.

A group of matrix supporters who saved that post have recently used it as evidence to try and counter argue my above claim that here at MatrixWatch we do NOT advise customers to file illegal chargebacks. I am now speaking up in defense of my claim, and I will prove that the September 28th post actually strengthens my claim. The matrix supporters are wrong in their accusations, and I will prove that here as well.

The reason the matrix supporters are misled about their recent claim is because they misunderstand the distinction between a legal chargeback and an illegal chargeback. By mixing these up they have mustered up a groundless accusation against this site.

Here is my orignal post on chargebacks:


Title: File a Chargeback
Posted: September 28th, 2003 09:54 PM

If all else fails between you and the matrix site you feel ripped you off, then chargeback any purchases you made from these sites. Note: This action should be taken against the pay companies that a matrix site is currently using. The matrix site will be shut down soon enough by their merchant banks. Consumers generally have zero liability for any internet purchase. Calling your credit card provider and requesting a chargeback will both get the consumer his money back and the company a penalty. Enough chargebacks and a merchant account is cancelled.

The matrix supporters quickly posted a retort to this claim on their forum. Here is what they said. I have underlined where they stretch the definition of what I said into what they think it said.


Matrix-Sites|Admin
Posted: Sep 28 2003, 07:35 PM

Watch Dog,
Did you not know it's a MAJOR CRIME to file a fake chargeback. Every person who buy's from a Matrix Site buy's an item and then gets put in a matrix for free. What your telling people to do is 100% illegal!! I think something needs to be done about MatrixWatch NOT the matrix sites. MatrixWatch is doing more harm then good. You say the law is always looking at your site, Well if they see you telling people to do illegal things such as a fake chargeback your site will go down as well as you. It's the same thing as going to a store and buying an item and then calling your card company and saying you never got your item or charged it.. It's Illegal!!



The matrix-sites admin is correct about what he/she said about fake chargebacks. They are illegal. However, there are legal chargebacks that a customer is entitled to initiate. This is the sort I encouraged the customers to file. NEVER ONCE did I encourage a customer to lie to their credit-card company about never receiving an item or not initiating the charge in the first place. Yet, that is exactly what the matrix-sites admin accused me of saying based on my post above. All I instructed a customer to do was call their credit-card company and seek to initiate a chargeback against the matrix site. The CC company will naturally ask the regular questions and they will begin an investigation into the matter.

Concerned even posted after me on September 28th, 2003. In his post he further clarified where we here at MatrixWatch.org stand on chargebacks. His post also came up after he read what the matrix-sites admin said about my post.

Here is Concerned's post:


It looks like the admin at matrix-sites is saying that doing a chargeback is illegal. Well people, don't believe him. If it was 100% ILLEGAL, then your credit card company WOULDN'T ALLOW IT. What really happens is when you do a chargeback, you do several things.

1) Your credit card company starts the process to get your money back.

2) The merchant banks do an investigation into the company that is having the chargeback done.

3) If what the company (ex Matrix Sites) is doing something illegal, or risky, then the merchant bank has the right to freeze or close accounts. The merchant banks don't like doing business with companies where chargebacks can occur a lot.

4) You will eventually get your money back, and the company or matrix site will likely have to pay a penalty.

Matrix-Sites does not want you to do this, NOT BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL, but because their accounts will be frozen. If that happens, they cannot put the money in their pockets and their businesses will be under investigation.



After reading Concerned's post we find that he has a correct understanding of the chargeback process and he is correcting the matrix-sites admin. If you read Concerned's post, and then read what I said above in my long response to Creator's accusations, you will find that we do not advise customers to file illegal chargebacks. We encourage customers to contact their credit-card company/bank and inform them about the situation. The company will investigate the situation and act in accordance with their policies and state's laws. This advice does not put the customer in any jeopardy. Mr. Daniels' nephew was not advised to do what he eventually did from MatrixWatch.org.

[concerned]

Originally posted by Creator
I say this because you people gave bad advise to my nephew, who was basically smoke and mirrored into believing that this site gave professional, sound legal advice, and ended up spending a weekend in FDC SeaTac in Seattle Washington under suspicion of fraud as a result of that advise...to which I had to fly clear across the country in order to get him out of the mess created by all this hocus pocus.


It is really funny how your nephew, who knows he has an uncle who is an "attorney who specializes in credit law", would go to a website for advice instead of asking his expert uncle. It would be like me having a father who is the nation's top surgeon, but when I need surgery, I go to the local butcher.

Anyway, my point is that if you are the expert you claim to be, why didn't your nephew ask for YOUR advice in the first place? Then on top of that, why do you come here and blame Matrix Watch for the fact that your nephew participated in a pyramid scheme? Maybe you should be blaming the person that gave your nephew the link to the matrix site in the first place.



Here is another one of your quotes.

Originally posted by Creator
The advise you provide can drastically alter a person's life, and I shudder to think what might have happened to my nephew had he not had me to rely on, and to get him out of the situation he was placed in.

Your nephew MUST NOT BELIEVE IN YOUR EXPERTISE, because if he did have YOU to rely on, why did he chose to seek out advice on the internet? Maybe he knows something about your track record that the rest of us DO NOT.

[spydrman]

Concerned, it's entirely possible that his nephew got a link to matrixwatch soon after buying into a matrix. Why would he drag his uncle into this when he got himself into it in the first place. I see what your saying, he should have consulted his uncle's advise, since he's an attorney. But he got himself into this situation, and tried to get himself out of it. He probably didn't want to tell his uncle that he fell for this scheme.

[mikv]

Well I would ask this guy for actual proof that his nephew ended up in SeaTac FDC over 1 fraudulent chargeback. That is extremely rare that you have to go to the main HQ in Seattle over 1 chargeback. That is something they would handle through the "local" office wherever the kid was at.
This all sounds too fishy to me...This Uncle is giving way too much "extra" info regarding this "incident". He had to fly cross country to bail his nephew out of SeaTac FDC over this? yeah right....

I also agree with concerned, why would you not double check whatever you read here with your "credit law attorney uncle".
So this is what the 100th person claiming to be an attorney of some sort who is threatening WD with legal action over something that could have been avoided if his nephew would have read and understood the TOS of the site he bought into?

Funny how he quotes a thread in which WD specifically stated to "check with the CC company and see what their policy is on chargebacks". This is comedy, and to blame this site, it's members and WD for his nephew's actions is ridiculous. Oh well another day in the matrix community.

[concerned]

Originally posted by mikv
Well I would ask this guy for actual proof that his nephew ended up in SeaTac FDC over 1 fraudulent chargeback. That is extremely rare that you have to go to the main HQ in Seattle over 1 chargeback.

Yeah, maybe his nephew also spent 7 days in jail for doing 20mph in a 15mph zone.

[Vee-Twin]

As someone who resides in the UK with no knowledge of the US law/s I am left with a few questions regarding Creator's posting.

a) Has he not just broken client confidentiality regarding his nephews case?

b) Is it allowed under US law to publicly issue threats to a third party?


I am also wondering, whilst offering mitigation for the alleged case against his nephew, did he specifically quote that his client was acting in "good faith" believing that this site gave professional & sound legal advice?

[concerned]

Originally posted by damion
9 times out of 10 times, an appeals judge is going to hold the previous judge's ruling unless there is new evidence or missed evidence in the first round.

Unless there is new case law that leads the appellate judge to see that the law was not followed properly in the rulling. With the new rulling in the case of Valenton v. Digital River (see link below) another judge ruled differently, and it now could be determined that a presidence has been made, and therefore the ruling could easily be changed.

http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=9891#post9891

[MatrixWatch]

Concerned brings up a very important point. All the doomsday talk from the matrix supporters is nullified. The link he posted is recommended reading for anyone interested in the developments of the various lawsuits.