Stop spamming my members

[Got Matrix]

I'm guessing this is someone from this organization but it is unethical to spam my members via private messages. Whomever you are I have banned you from the site and I warn you not to continue these actions.

If it's not someone from MW then I'm sorry for pointing the finger but who else besides concerned would do this? You've registered with like 6 names on my forums and it's very annoying to keep blocking you. I will be forced to follow up with your ISP if this is in fact you.

[concerned]

First of all, I have sent you a PM in response to you comming here and accusing me personally. Besides that fact, I have a problem with your accusations in general.

You are saying that someone is SPAMMING your members. First of all, you haven't even told us what those messages say, and you have not even shown any proof that the messages were truely SPAM. If you are going to come here and accuse people of sending spam, then you need to back up those accusations with proof. Are those messages about pills that enlarge certain genetalia? I often get spam about stuff like that. But if the message is about that kind of stuff, why would you only accuse members of this forum for sending that kind of spam? People all around the world send spam like that. What is your reason for accusing MW?

You first need to tell us what the messages are telling your members before you accuse this small of a group.

Anyway, let's start by examining the definition of SPAM.

I got the definition here:
http://www.spamhaus.org/definition.html

A message is Spam only if it is both Unsolicited and Bulk.

First of all, I don't remember what software you are using to run your forum, since I have not been to your forums in about 6 months, but there are only 3 types that I know of. They are VBULLETIN, PHPBB, and INVISION. From my experience in trying to send a PM to Watchdog and Hurley in the past on this board, you are not allowed to send a message to more than one person. Basically I had to send 2 seperate messages. I don't know if that is the case in all boards out there, but it seems to be the standard. Hence there is no way whatsoever that a private message on a forum can be a BULK message. That is a condition of the message being a SPAM.

Next, it is also a standard of these forum boards to allow a user to dissable private messages. What that means is that if they chose to recieve messages then they are NOT unsolicited.

Here is a quote from that same site.

Unsolicited means that the Recipient has not granted verifiable permission for the message to be sent.

Further more, you can block messages from specific users. Hence, the message is technically not UNSOLICITED.

Here is another source I found about SPAM. http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html#2.1

Notice this quote.

'Spam' doesn't mean "ads." It doesn't mean "abuse." It doesn't mean "posts whose content I object to."

I post this quote because I am assuming you object to the information in those messages because you wouldn't come here and accuse the members here ONLY otherwise.

Finally, I will talk to Watchdog about this. If we find that anyone on this forum is truely sending SPAM, we will deal with them accordingly, but we will need definate proof that the spam exists and falls within the definition of spam.

[Got Matrix]

The individual is simply spamming all new registrants with the negative side of the matrix business model, something that this site thrives on and is originated from. Like I said I'm sorry if it's not someone from here and if it's not you I'm truly sorry but so far while in this business you're the only person that has tried to deceive me.

I'm truly sorry if this is not you concerned and I hope you accept my appology. I just want this put to a stop, that is all.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by Got Matrix
I'm sorry for pointing the finger but who else besides concerned would do this?

It is very easy to allow our perceptions to be defined by what we read in the forums soley. What is more important, however, is what is happening outside the forums. GotMatrix customers contact us all the time via PM or email about how upset they are and how they want to file a class-action lawsuit. It is probably those customers who are sending Private Messages, trying to get a grass-roots effort coordinated, especially after learning the recent result of the VarietyMatrix/Digital River case (a fact that the supporters have been strangely quiet about lately).

There are also several customers who feel the same way Concerned does, but they just don't post as much. They check in from time to time, but many of them feel that their interests are well represented here at Matrix Watch, and they don't see the need to add their thoughts to the dialogue yet.

Remember the thousands of customers that there were when the matrix sites were big? Do you think that they are just walking away from this when they have put so much money into it? What they are actually doing now is filing lawsuits (see our downloads section), and writing to the federal government about the owners of these matrix sites.

If you are finding Private Messages then it is probably just the writing on the wall. You will probably end up in our downloads section soon enough.

By the way, since you know so much about the private messages that your members are receiving it also means that you know what they are sending in response. Your forums probably have a function that allows you to spy on the conversations of your members. That is totally wrong, Greg, and it is an invasion of privacy for the people on your discussion boards.:mad:

[Got Matrix]

Actually it's been brought to my attention by several new users to the forums not by any sort of privacy invasion. I do not believe there is such a function for PhpBB and I respect my members privacy.

[concerned]

Originally posted by Got Matrix
The individual is simply spamming all new registrants with the negative side of the matrix business model, something that this site thrives on and is originated from. Like I said I'm sorry if it's not someone from here and if it's not you I'm truly sorry but so far while in this business you're the only person that has tried to deceive me.

I'm truly sorry if this is not you concerned and I hope you accept my appology. I just want this put to a stop, that is all.

I don't really care if you appologize to me or not. It really isn't me that is doing this. As for me being the only person to try to decieve you, that is funny. Every day you are decieving your customers into believeing that they will definately get a prize in 3-7 months, yet you complain and cry foul when someone deceives you. Of your thousands of customers, are you saying that they are all happy with your service? Are there any customers that are mad at the long wait? Do you think they could want revenge? Admit it, it is possible.

Either way, that isn't the real reason you started this post, is it. You are starting to look for someone else to blame about the fact that your business is starting to fail. By making a post about someone sending spam on your forum, you are falsely accusing people of wrongdoing. You don't even have proof that ACTUAL SPAMMING occured.

You obviously didn't read my response above because you came back and used the word "spamming" again. If you have proof that it is truely spam, then you can use that word, but until you provide that proof, you have no leg to stand on. Your partner in crime, Sigx97, childishly accuses this forum of posting false information, yet you have come here and FALSELY accused people of sending spam. On top of it all, you say that it is unethical to send "SPAM", but if it is true what Watchdog is saying about you reading other people's Private Messages, then you are acting even more unethically.

By you stating that "The individual is simply spamming all new registrants with the negative side of the matrix business model" already proves that whatever was happening was not spam. First of all, spam is sent to a large group, and a spammer does not care who they send the message to. I get spam about making my breasts larger. Does the spammer care that I am a guy? No, because they don't care, as long as they can make a profit. By you saying that they are selecting only new members means that they do care who they send it to. That means that there is a standard that the person uses to select who they send a message to.

What you need to answer in order to accurately accuse someone of spamming is this:

Q: How are they able to find only new members?

A: I don't know, do you?

Q: How many people are they sending these messages to.

A: 1 at a time, because as far as I know there is no way to send a PM to more than 1 person at a time, therefor it is not bulk.

Q: Are the messages truely unsolicited?

A: Depends on the situation. You need to prove this. For example, sometimes someone comes to this forum to ask for information. Instead of replying to the post in public, I send them a PM. In that case, it isn't UNSOLICITED, because they asked a question. That question solicits a response. Also, there is an option that allows people to dissable PMs. If that is the case, they are welcoming PMs at any time by allowing them to come through.

Q: Is someone sending information about the "negative side of the matrix business model" illegal?

A: Probably not. Just because you don't have the same views doesn't mean that you should ban them from your forum. Doesn't the 1st amendment protect people's opinion.

In conclusion, all that I can see is that you are looking for another scapegoat. Based on the information that you have provided here, I cannot see how spamming ever took place. The definition is clear, and it is almost impossible to send "SPAM" via a private messaging system.

[Got Matrix]

Failing business? Our sales have been increasing every month since starting almost a year ago. Your source for our signups is incorrect or you're making a bad assumption.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by Got Matrix
Our sales have been increasing every month since starting almost a year ago.

Your sign-ups may be increasing, but your sales are not. Most of your new customers stay "pending" for weeks until they are finally removed for lack of payment.

Even if your sales do increase, I still worry for the customers. Growth for a matrix list is a very bad thing, and it ends up stagnating soon enough. Eventually your customers will get wise to the system and file a lawsuit against to get their money back. This process has happened several times over on other sites, and yours is no different. If I were you, I would not start bragging about lots of new customers, because more sign-ups bring your inevitable, mathematical collapse even nearer.

[Got Matrix]

Okay let me reword my previous statement. Our paid orders have increased since opening and are still on the rise.

[concerned]

Originally posted by Got Matrix
Okay let me reword my previous statement. Our paid orders have increased since opening and are still on the rise.

While you may have an increase in the rate of your signups, I am sure you are experiencing a decrease in your cycling percentage. About a year ago you were probably cycling off about 20% of your customers, while you are probably now cycling about 1% or less.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by Got Matrix
Our sales have been increasing every month since starting almost a year ago.

So, you are saying that your current sales are higher than your first month(s) of opening? How much money are you currently pulling in per month?

[ycchen]

Gotmatrix signup rate DECREASE faster than I have anticipated, even for the popular lists of Xbox, Gameboy and PS2. The new signup of these 3 lists will take AT LEAST 10 years to get their reward IF the rate stop falling which is impossible.

With signup rate continue to decrease drastically, the new signups will take more than 20 years to cycle. The role of newbies (new signups) is to help those who signup 6 months ago to cycle. Newbies are the permanent helper with NO HOPE of getting their rewards, unfortunately. That's the fate of newbies in any pyramid scheme ..:(

Detail statistics will be becoming soon.

[ycchen]

Originally posted by Got Matrix
Okay let me reword my previous statement. Our paid orders have increased since opening and are still on the rise.

This is the biggest lie in the matrix history and even pro-matrix community will find this statement a big joke.

Gotmatrix is going down and fast. What make gotmatrix different from the rest of the matrices is that it is still manage to 'funcition' -- continue to scam newbies' money to pay the owner himself and also a few old customers who signup 6 months ago. This is the ONLY accomplishment of gotmatrix.

Unfortunately, with signup rate continue to drop like crazy, the waiting line getting longer, gotmatrix ability to cycle out OLD customers will come to a stop soon. Look, you need to take in at least 5 to 10 newbies' money (depend on the length of the cycle) to pay off one old customer.

For misinformed newbies who signup NOW will NEVER (20 years waiting is the same as NEVER) get your reward, and this is a concensus of ALL pro or anti-matrix community. Even Greg cannot deny this fact!!

[MatrixWatch]

It is a shame that the customers at GotMatrix are not getting the full truth in exchange for their honest questions. We look forward to the new statistics report ycchen.

I just hope that the customers of GotMatrix do not wait too long to take appropriate actions and try to recoup their money. I know that they are smart enough to see through the lies and break free from the matrix.

[Vee-Twin]

Originally posted by Got Matrix
Failing business? Our sales have been increasing every month since starting almost a year ago. Your source for our signups is incorrect or you're making a bad assumption.

Got Matrix, this is what you had to say in top-matrix on May5th 2003:

From: http://top-matrix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=370&highlight=#370

"PayPal by far is #1 even if they're not matrix friendly. I've been with them for 3 months without a single problem, done $50k+ sales in that time and I haven't had a single complaint from them. They have the smallest fees and the best interface for payment, and tracking your orders. All these other sites have outrageous fees from what I've seen. Just dump your funds to your checking account if you're that worried about them freezing it up."

=============================================

Now that you are claiming your sales have increased every month since starting, you must be taking well in excess of $5,000 a WEEK in sales! yet apparently those cycling are now very few and far between!

I have my own conclussions I can draw from the above figures but I would welcome hearing yours Got Matrix.

[Pineapples]

I joined gotmatrix back in september or october. Back then, I was a cycling helper. Right now, I am still a cycling helper. That's all I needed to say.

[MatrixWatch]

Do you have a lot of money in that site?

[Pineapples]

It was only 50 bucks, but still that's alot for me since I ain't rich.

[Got Matrix]

Well you stick up for Karen but you don't stick up for me? That doesn't make any sense at all. I have outstanding customer service according to my feedback from members. I receive several more orders than her site and I pay my members when they cycle. I've been cycled on her site for 4 months now and I'm still not paid the large sum she owes me. She hasn't even contacted me in 3 months to update me on the situation and I have to email her 4 times to get 1 response. Not to come down on Karen because I know she's going through rough times losing her main processor and them holding the funds but you still have to come up with a situation to pay your cyclers just as I did when I lost PayPal in July.

[ycchen]

Customers do have their preference on good and bad matrix, that's their opinion. As far as I am concern, matrix IS a pyramid scheme. Anyone running a pyramid scheme IS a dishonest owner.

The fact that you pay your old customers does not make you a better owner BECAUSE you create MORE NEW VICTIMS at the end of the day!

As any pyramid scheme, you are simply tranfer money from SIX new customers (let assume a cycle of 6) to pay ONE old customer, while charging >20% service charge.

I do not understand how anyone can claim to be an 'HONEST' owner by scamming money from newbies (through dishonest adv on eBay and Yahoo) to pay him/herself and 5-20% of the early customers?!! :mad:

[Pineapples]

Who's karen and who supports her?

[Got Matrix]

Maybe I have you confused with someone else

[Pineapples]

oh ok. I thought you might have meant Denise instead of karen. I don't who's karen, I heard of her tho.