MW impact on gotmatrix?

[ycchen]

There is another funny dialouge on Gotmatrix forum and I am sure it will be deleted soon. I guess our investigation 'might' have tiny impact on gotmatrix ..:)

As I have said repteatedly, Gotmarix employed extensive deceptive tactics and lies to lure newbies to be a DONOR in their pyramid-matrix scam. If newbies have come to MW FIRST to learn about the TRUTH of Gotmatrix, they will not pay a PENNY to this pyramid scam.

Feb 16 Newbie A wrote:
I read about gotmatrix recently on an info web site that has done a little research. They said that at the rate of cycling during christmas, the person at the bottom of the list would take 6.5 years to cycle. is that true?? it seems right, considering i'v been on the list nearly seven months and i've barely moved up a whole page.
Feb 18 Oldie B replied:
It would depend on how many people signed up for it. The popularity of the xbox has dropped so it could take that long or longer.
Feb 18 Newbie C wrote:
yeah man, this blows donkey balls. My calculations said i have 8 years left... and that was before it stopped to a dead crawl. Maybe admins would help us out? 8 years? This isnt supposed to be a ripp-off. Common guys...
Feb 19 Oldie D wrote:
If you promote heavily it won't take that long. The site you are talking of is Matrix Watch and the owner Watch Dog is dead against gotmatrix.com and all matrix websites(he has already closed down a few). He can't do the same with gotmatrix because of Gregs dedication and the support given by us members. All I can say is let the Watch dogs bark. Oops I mean let the dogs bark. Vote and promote and you will see how soon you make it.

[ycchen]

If you promote heavily it won't take that long. The site you are talking of is Matrix Watch and the owner Watch Dog is dead against gotmatrix.com and all matrix websites(he has already closed down a few). He can't do the same with gotmatrix because of Gregs dedication and the support given by us members. All I can say is let the Watch dogs bark. Oops I mean let the dogs bark. Vote and promote and you will see how soon you make it.

See my point about the role of oldies as a collaborator after they have been transformed by this unjust pyramid scheme? No body is a bad person to begin with, but pyramid scheme made them greedy and selfish. That's the SIN of any pyramid scheme which create a FEW WINNER and MASSIVE LOSER.

Here are the implications of this post by "us members"
1. "us members" means members who have cycled many times, or close to cycle; or they can be insiders, or ever owner himself! These are people who MAKE money out of the DONOR (READ: newbies) kind donation.

2. As pyramid scheme, you have to PROMOTE your own list! You cannot just sit back and relax. Only owners, insiders, oldies who made money can sit back and relax and pointing finger at the newbies --- why is it so slow? Because YOU (newbies) DID NOT DO YOUR JOB!!! YOU HAVE TO PROMOTE PROMOTE PROMOTE the list!!! Go out and do your job and STOP COMPLAINING!!!

(excurse me, everytime I find newbies get bullied by all these greedy scum, I get really furious)

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by a supporter of GotMatrix
If you promote heavily it won't take that long. The site you are talking of is Matrix Watch and the owner Watch Dog is dead against gotmatrix.com and all matrix websites (he has already closed down a few). He can't do the same with gotmatrix because of Gregs dedication and the support given by us members. All I can say is let the Watch dogs bark. Oops I mean let the dogs bark. Vote and promote and you will see how soon you make it.

I think that the customers are smart enough to see through this smoke screen.

Notice how this person never responds to our claims, nor the statistical reports you have published. Instead, he resorts to attacking us and saying how wonderful their leader Greg is.

As I've said before, a simple college course in Logic 101 wil point out that this is an Ad Hominem fallacy in argumentation. Instead of responding to the argument, a person with no counter-argument will instead attack the person giving the argument. It is like saying, "I don't have to listen to this person who tells me I'll get cancer from smoking, because I heard that they don't even know how to tie their shoes." In the argument above, this matrix supporter tries to undercut what we have claimed about the matrix sites because we do not see what a loving a caring owner Greg is.

Please! Just help this customer out by telling him or her that most matrix sites don't last long enough to cycle everyone out, especially after they have had merchant accounts frozen like GotMatrix has in the past. This has nothing to do with us being "dead set against GotMatrix" as much as it has to do with us wanting to help the customers of various matrix sites.

If it couldn't get any worse, this person recommends that those near the bottom of the lists pull in more suckers. Well, what happens to those new customers who are now signed up for a long list? Do we tell them that they need to promote as well? Where does it end? Will GotMatrix begin having different languages available at their site for various African tribes when they run out of new sign ups? Let's not beat around the bush. GotMatrix is a remanufactured pyramid scam that is ripping off thousands of people. Sure, they'll tell you that you don't need to promote and that makes them "not a pyramid scam", yet if you stick around for awhile you would find that promotion is exactly what everyone needs to do in order to keep the scam moving.

The only recourse that the customers have is either filing a class-action lawsuit (which only takes one customer), or by contacting their credit-card company and telling them about the fraud GotMatrix site.

[mikv]

I'm a little confused in reading the GotMatrix FAQ, it states that the customers DO NOT have to ADVERTISE, but they are highly encouraged to PROMOTE the site. What is the difference between Promoting & Advertising in this context? In order to promote, customers are told to print flyers and pass them out or post ebay auctions or whatever. That is clearly ADVERTISING for the site, something Greg says HE does. That site is smoke and mirrors from the time you enter til the time you leave. Don't the customers realize the word manipulation? The more I visit that site, the more clear the scheme is and the more clear the lies get. I just don't understand how the members could get so brainwashed an not see this.

[concerned]

Feb 19 Oldie D wrote:

If you promote heavily it won't take that long. The site you are talking of is Matrix Watch and the owner Watch Dog is dead against gotmatrix.com and all matrix websites(he has already closed down a few). He can't do the same with gotmatrix because of Gregs dedication and the support given by us members. All I can say is let the Watch dogs bark. Oops I mean let the dogs bark. Vote and promote and you will see how soon you make it.

WOW, Watchdog, how did you single handidly close down sites? I didn't know that any citizen can close down a "business". Wow, can you close down anyone? Maybe you can close down Wal-Marts, and Microsoft while you are at it, if you have any time left after closing down matrix sites.

[MatrixWatch]

I must have read over that part. That is funny. I do know that several matrix sites have closed after one of the following:

1. They heard about pay companies freezing funds, or they had their own funds frozen.

2. They heard about or became subject to one of the various lawsuits filed by the customers.

3. They kept having their ebaY auctions closed on account of ebaY, or because of the eBay Watch Dog team.

4. They learned about the truth behind the matrices after reading through our site.

5. Customers began to file chargebacks through their credit-card companies in order to get their money back in time.

6. They read the media articles from Wired News, TechTV, MSNBC, KTLA, 'Need to Know', etc. and then realized that the powers that be do not approve of this way of marketing.

7. I guess the list could go on and on.


I think that people put my name on the whole thing because it is easier for them to center in upon one figure. All I did was launch and administrate the website that combines these pieces of information and resources into one whole effort--A place where the customers of these sites can get real assistance.

Back when I got involved with the matrix sites there wasn't anywhere on the web where I could go to get my questions answered. When I asked my questions on the matrix forums I got the same kinds of answers that people are getting at GotMatrix:

- Keep on promoting!
- Our owner is looking out for us. He/She won't let us down.
- Why do you doubt this? I got my gift.
- If you can't say anything positive, then just be quiet.
- It is a risk, you knew what you were getting into when you bought the ebooks.
- Your post will now be deleted!

After a short time I realized that the people who were telling me these things were either matrix owners themselves, or they were the people at the top of the lists and they wanted to cycle faster. I knew that if I came to the top of a list one day that I would become just as manipulative as they were. I didn't want that to happen, I did some research, and I started a group at MSN. Since then, we have received some great media coverage and hundreds of people have jumped on board to help us out. Now, when I go to bed at night I can rest assured knowing that we are helping people, rather than ripping them off as the matrix sites are doing.

I have concluded that one of the greatest strengths of a matrix site is mis-information. If they can pull a customer in through word-play, then they can keep them as a customer through lies. MatrixWatch.org is a huge threat to the matrix site because we tell people about the truth behind the matrix. Accurate information is the enemy of any scam artist, and that is why they hate us so much. That is also why they never answer the customers' questions, and instead resort to attacking MatrixWatch.

[concerned]

Originally posted by watchdog
I think that people put my name on the whole thing because it is easier for them to center in upon one figure. All I did was launch and administrate the website that combines these pieces of information and resources into one whole effort--A place where the customers of these sites can get real assistance.


The funny thing about this, is by that matrix supporter (and all the others) throwing your name around like that, it makes newbies do a search on "Matrix Watch Dog", and they find this site. The supporters are actually advertising for Matrix Watch because when they claim that a website closed down sites, the newbies want to know how and why, so they look for themselves.

[Vee-Twin]

Originally posted by concerned
The funny thing about this, is by that matrix supporter (and all the others) throwing your name around like that, it makes newbies do a search on "Matrix Watch Dog", and they find this site. The supporters are actually advertising for Matrix Watch because when they claim that a website closed down sites, the newbies want to know how and why, so they look for themselves.

I think they may well of wised up to that now, have you noticed how silent the gotmatrix cronies have been over at the (dying) top-matrix forum.........?

[ycchen]

Here is a follow-up on the same thread on gotmatrix's forum. I know some of you are banned from gotmatrix, so you might be intereted to know what happen there. I am surprised why Greg or Sigx97 haven't deleted this thread yet.

Feb 20, Oldie (his or her first post)I have been on the list since Mid July and I don't think I'm ever getting an XBox. If I ever do get one, it will be an obsolete game.

Feb 21, Oldie or newbie? Ouch! ...I think its time for all these exaggerated matrix lists to be autocycled heavily!

Comment:
1. Autocycle fund is USELESS. The current total is $550. To cycle out everyone who signup before Nov. 14, 2003, Greg needs 2.3 millions! If he choose to refund the uncycled customers, he still needs $315,000 as of Nov 14, 2003. Since he continue his scam business, the liabilities has increased since Nov, 2003. You can download the report on "Gotmatrix liabilities and refund" here:
http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/attachment.php?postid=9223

So, how do you expect $550 to 'heavily cycle' all the customers (2.3 million)?? See, now you know why autocycle fund is a JOKE!?

2. Oldies (those signup in July) are getting impatience as they begin to realize the TRUTH of this pyramid-matrix scheme. Together with newbies, they will assert tremendous pressure on Greg in the coming weeks. I think Greg's tactic of "paying every cycled member" as a strategic to keep gotmatrix scam going will not work too well under this pressure.

I am expecting gotmatrix to exit very SOON. The question is "how".

[ycchen]

Feb 24 Oldie It never takes so much time. The more you promote the more sign ups and you make it to the top. If it would take 6-8 years how come so many people get cycled..? Feb 24 Newbie I understand that people are always cycling everytime 5 people purchase, on let's say a cycle of 5. That explains why people are getting cycled. But doesn't the list still grow? If it grows, then I would think that it would take someone at the end of the list longer to cycle than someone in front of them. I am still confused about this. I think that your post still doesn't explain if that 6-8 years is true or not.

If I am understanding your post correctly, you are saying that if I promote like heck, then I will move up faster than someone that doesn't promote? What happens if I promote, and the person in front of me does not? Do I jump them, or do they still cycle before me? If they cycle before me, it doesn't seem fair. Is that how I can avoid waiting for 6-8 years? I wish the employees would explain this better. It's soooooo confusing. Comment:
1. Oldie: "If it would take 6-8 years how come so many people get cycled..?"

Funny arguement. The right question should be "Why so many people do not get cycled?" For every person cycled, Xbox list creates 6 more helper. (ratio of 1:6) So, when will this pyramid structure ends? Happy ending where EVERYONE cycled? Of course not, it ends by 'natural death' where the list eventually STOP MOVING. So, 6-8 years is a VERY generious prediction. In reality, those who are NOT in the top 20 waiting position will most likely to get NOTHING since XBOX is 'not popular' anymore.

For Xbox list,
How many people cycled? 63
How many people waiting? 515

The real ratio of "cycled: waiting" = 1: 8 (equivalent to cycle of 8)
The correct ratio of "cycled: waiting" should be = 1 : 6 (equivalent to cycle of 6)
So, Greg is actually NOT cycle enough people as HE SHOULD. Go and ask him WHY?

For the helper at 300 (not the last one at 515) waiting position. S/he needs to HEAVILY PROMOTING the list to get 300 x 6 = 1800 helpers behind her/him in order to cycle himself or herself. So far, s/he has (515-300=) 212 persons behind her/him already. S/he just need to get addition (1800 - 212 =) 1588 helpers!

If s/he can get 1588 new helpers & win a XBOX, s/he can make much more money by doing ANYTHING ELSE.

Moreover, with signup falling below 10 per month, how can 'heavily promoting' or 'heavily autocycle' works?

Let's assume the signup rate stays at 10 per month (which is impossible as it will continue to fall), this poor helper at position 300 need to wait for (1588/10) = 158.8 months = 13.2 years to get her/his Xbox, not 6-8 years.

If s/he want to get his/her Xbox in one year, s/he needs to pump up the monthly signup rate to (1588/12 = ) 132 (or 4.4 new helper per day). If s/he can get 4.4 friends to signup per day, then s/he will get her/his Xbox in EXACTLY ONE YEAR.


2. Newbie: "I wish the employees would explain this better. It's soooooo confusing".

Yes, your promotion effort will go to cycle every one in front of you. This is what we called "free rider" problem in any pyramid-matrix scheme. "Free rider" means your promotion effort goes to those who do nothing.

I am very CONFIDENT that neither Greg nor Sixg97 will respond to any questions about "waiting time" because they are defenseless. Their best strategy is to IGNORE (and eventually DELETE) the post.

[ycchen]

Originally posted by ycchen
I am very CONFIDENT that neither Greg nor Sixg97 will respond to any questions about "waiting time" because they are defenseless. Their best strategy is to IGNORE (and eventually DELETE) the post.


... just to show you how 'predictable' these scam owners are...lol :D

Spring cleaning.... lol I think their next step will be:

A. hire more hit men (or women) to agressively delete or edit 'challenging' posts.

B. kick 'trouble makers' out of the forum

C. Close down the forum due to 'technical problem' :) Look for their annoucement in the future that sounds something like:

1) Our forum has been attacked by hackers, so we have to close down until further notice. (BTW, please download the ranking list, cause it 'might' be attacked by hacker as well. After the attached, you will find 200 people (fake names) in front of you. )

2) Our forum data was gone during the recent upgrading of the server. Luckily we have saved data which was 6 months old. We apologize for the inconvenient.

3) We encounter some technical difficulty so we need to close our forum until further notice.

4) We discovered that many anti-matrix people from MW have infiltrated our forum and spread negative lies about gotmatrix. We are currently investagating the possible spies therefore in the meantime, we have to close our forum.