Consumer 'uprising' on Gotmatrix forum?

[ycchen]

I found an interesting thread on gotmatrix's forum. I thought I should move it here before it gets deleted.

Title of the thread: A Plan under "site suggestion" category

March 8, 2004, Skeptic What's your plan for non-moving/extremely long lists? It is currently impossible (as in by the laws of mathematics as we know them) to cycle a list entirely unless someone loses money... so what happens when the lists pause? March 8, 2004, newbieI want to know too.......I asked a two owners from other matrix ..one told me that I had already got what I paid for: EBOOKS .... he told me that I should not expect to get the free gift.....the other one told me the same thing... enjoy your ebook and continue to wait.... as long as there are people buying ...even if it is 1 person each year.... you will still have a chance to get it eventually.... the owner added: try to promote your list .. then you will get it earlier..... i don't like the answer, but what can you do?

can the administrator please answer this question? I believe that this site is different from the rest.March 9, skepticyou'll get the same answer here....They are doing ZERO to help the stagnant lists. They expect us to get them moving again. Their plan is to wait it out. They will tell you to promote the lists you are on if you want it to move faster. In short, there is no plan to help you cycle.March 9, 2004, the diehard promoter said: micxxxx,
What would you suggest?March 9, 2004 supporter Exactly! I love the people who do nothing but complain. Greg is always more than willing to listen to and implement ideas if they will work. What else can he do?? He had the autocycle on the $25 & $50 lists to help build up and clear out lists(this can only do so much) and by OUR(the customers) vote we no longer have the autocycle on these lists so that we could have lower cycle helpers. He tries to do what we want most in order to try and run this site the best way he can. If you have an idea share it, maybe it can help. Otherwise what do you think your complaining is accomplishing????
He can't perform miracles. I think the fact that this site still has a steady stream of customers is already an outstanding accomplishment at Gotmatrix. How many other Matrix Sites are still going this strong after a year? Patience is the name of this game. If you don't have it, PLEASE don't bother wasting yours or anyone elses time by signing up and then complaining all the time......I for one have complete faith in this site. It is the ONLY Matrix site I completely trust and the only one where I am positive when I cycle I WILL receive my "gifts". As far as I am concerned that's all that mattered when I signed up. To me it is worth the wait for the "return" I will receive.March 9, another supporter Icouldn't agree more. If you want your item tomorrow get a job. The whole idea behind a matrix is that you have to be patient. This is not a perfect world and the matrix system is not a perfect system- but GotMatrix is by far the best matrix out there!! I have had not luck from any other site but have already cycled twice here and am up to cycle any time now. You make the suggestion and please do stop complainingMarch 9, skeptic I think you missunderstood my question. I mean when the lists get to be thousands of people long, resulting in an almost absolute stalemate. Because, unless people do not understand what they are buying into, they will not spend $100 to wait until 5000 people (and that's only if the list is 1000 people long on a FIVE person matrix) spend $100 for an even longer list.

Do you get what I am trying to say? Right now I have two slots in the $500 Normal Matrix, which seems to be moving very steadily at the moment. I wouldn't mind waiting one year, or even three years to receive that money.

However, my concern is that eventually, the lists will become so long that NOBODY will buy on that list and basically, all of those people just lost their money.

By the way, if ANYONE here tries to argue that "we got what we paid for", in the eBooks, that is, I'll stick my foot up their arse. March 9, neutral? There's nothing wrong with complaining. It's good to hear the negative AND positive feelings about this site. To me, Greg is just a name. I don't know him, haven't met him, or even talked to him but I always hear the SAME good things about him ... and usually from the SAME people. I know it takes patience to be in the Matrix but some people have been screwed by online scams so I understand why they're negative and complain. But when they finally cycle, I most definately want to hear it also. I want to hear how their opinions about this site has changed.

When I first joined the Matrix, all I read were good things. So something seemed wrong. I started to think that it was a facade. Seeing the negative responses made me feel that i wasn't the only one who was skeptical.

GotMatrix IS my favorite matrix and I'm willing to wait the time it takes but for others ... Complain all you want, complain until somethings gets done, complain until you get heard(just try to keep all of them in one post only) but keep in mind, you can also help yourself cycle in the matrix by self advertising. I already got almost 20 of my friends in the matrix ... unfortunately, they didn't get in my line. Maybe we should just have a forum just for complaints.

Remember ... patience is a virtue (ya wateva) LOL
Goodluck to All!March 10, suggestion let me try to summarize the suggestions that I gather on this forum...
a. administrator should advertise more ..... let us know where did you advertise? ......Why can't we find them?
b. shorten the cycle length,..... for example the LCD 19" is a cycle of 18, should cut into half.
c. open new lists regularly ....
d. close matrix lists that are stagnant ..... give people site credit to move into other lists...
e. Raise more money on autocycle fund by opening a shop front to sell something. (e.g. gotmatrix treasures) Many lists need serious autocycle....March 10, another suggestionI suggest using a point system in the forums so that when you get a specific amount of points you can create your own matrix line. I think that would motivate more people into joining and investing.
Matrix Creations did this once but unfortunately that site is as good as dead. March 10, reponse to suggestions @ iwantmoney

a. agreed, but they can only do so much
b. that would make the price double per slot
c. that just takes away from old lists
d. wholeheartedly agree, great idea
e. another great idea

@xaroxantu zero

Part of the reason that site died (I'm JUST GUESSING) is because too many lines opened up and nobody invested in them. When you can see yourself getting into a new line as one of the first people there's no way you're going to go spend money to be 50th in a 10 person line. March 10, skeptic I suggest that Greg matches DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR, AD FOR AD, LINK FOR LINK when it comes to advertising. His business is cycling people, the ebook front holds no water.....How can you all sit there thinking that "the owner can only do so much" when he does nothing at all? I would like to see the philosophy of the site change from "promote your own list" (which is borderline illegal) to "you don't have to advertise cause we advertise" like the TOS states.
I would also like to see people be truthful to newbies about how long it takes to get your items. Baiting and lying have only brought this site to where it is today, stagnant. Do you all realize that there is NOT ONE gotmatrix banner ANYWHERE on ANY MAJOR WEBSITE on the net! This is ridiculous!! It doesn't take but a minute to add your link to other sites links pages and Greg should be doing that ALL DAY LONG. By now there should be Banners, Posters, Flyers, Telemarketers, commercials or something saying GotMatrix yet there is none (that greg himself has setup).
It's almost as if he's afraid to advertise his own business in fear that the authorities will catch on to this. You can call me whatever you like but the fact stands that this business was created by Greg for Greg, yet he passes the burden of advertising (which is the backbone and only way to keep any business afloat) to his customers.
It's not our job to advertise, it's not our job to line Greg's pockets on a daily basis while he makes people wait YEARS for their payout. I'm not asking for a "miracle", I'm asking for the owner to step up to the plate and help his own business out. Stop forcing your customers to bring you new leads, spend some money and generate them yourself. To all of you that carry that philosophy of "the owner can only do so much", you need to change it to "the customer has done all they can, it's time for the owner to step it up". Wise up people, this site can work if ALL parties are involved (owner and customer) and not just one waiting for the other to make them rich. That is the reason why lists are stagnant today. Is that too much to ask that the person who started the business actually lift a finger to advertise it?
Think about this, if the owner can't afford to run 1 single ad on a respectable website, billboard, newspaper or somewhere other than this or any matrix forum, then how do you figure he's gonna be around in another two, three or four years when your name is up to cycle?

[MatrixWatch]

I was taken back by this post from a frustrated veteran. Looks like this customer is sincerely trying his/her best.


From: http://www.gotmatrix.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1432&start=15

Posted: Mar Thu 11, 2004 3:11 am

Let's put it this way, I've printed out flyers and stapled them, taped them, stuffed them into leaflet holders and even dropped off huge stacks of them at the fraternity and sorority houses, but it doesn't seem to be drumming up any new business.

When I pitched this to a few fraternity brothers, they said they looked at the lines and decided against buying in since they were so huge. Wasn't there something called an autocycler to help reduce line length?

Greg, how about those HYIP programs you told us about? What about turning some of the daily interest back around to buying out spots (ie. autcycle a spot or two)? I know Brideby had done some good money for me before they dropped off the face of the world and scammed me and hundreds of others.

[mikv]

Looks like GM's empire is starting to crumble a little more. Thier forum as well as Matrix-Sites forum have been buzzin lately with customers asking questions and getting frustrated with the answers. I noticed Greg hasn't been around all that much to answer posts on his site and SigX is running out of excuses to cover up what is really going on. I feel sorry for the customers that are really trying to make this work for themselves by spending more money to make flyers and take out ads. Every dollar they put into advertising takes from whatever they would be getting from cycling cause Greg doesn't reimburse people for advertising for him.

[SuperEasyStuff]

Looks like Got Matrix will still stay up, but they'll be pretty much bogged in complaints and refund demands, etc. That's what they get for running a matrix site into something way too large and hopeless for 90%+ of the people.

[ycchen]

Size is NOT an issue. Even if it is only 100 people, there will ALWAYS be 80-95% of permanent helpers stuck in the pyramid-matrix. That's the 'bueaty' of any pyramid scheme.

The ONLY difference is the chance of getting the reward by newbies.

For large matrix such as gotmatrix, chance for newbies to get their reward (except for the speculative new list which is most likely to packed with supporters, promoters or insiders anyways) is ZERO, they are PURE donors at this stage.

For small matrix, there is still a slim chance that newbies MIGHT get their reward (if they can get into the first 1-2 position) before it stagnant. Look at matrixrevo, see how many people will get their 'free gift'.

It is a matter of SLIM chance in new matrix and ZERO chance in giant old matrix such as gotmatrix, from the perspective of newbies.

ALL newbies who invest in gotmatrix (except for the new lists that came up in year 2004, if they have any chance at all to compete with insiders, speculators and promoters to get into the first 10% of the list) in 2004 will have ZERO chance of getting their reward. Absolutely ZERO chance! I can bet anyone on this statement, including the scam ring leader -- Greg and his supporters.

The best selling list $25 has more than 4000 people waiting, how can anyone who signup at 4001 get their reward? S/he needs extra 8000 new signup to get a pathetic $10 dollars reward! :mad:


ADD: The worst injustice is to watch a handful of pathetic supporters and promoters who will NOT reinvest a dime in any of the lists (except for the new lists) lying and urging newbies to donate their money on the forum. This is how low these people are willing to go...... :mad:

ADD x2: On the contrary, I have total respect for those early birds who refuse (or too embarass) to urge friends or newbies to join. They realize the scam and refuse to be the collaborator.

When you fall into a shxt hole by accident, don't pull others into the shxt hole so you can float to the top.........:) Sooner or later, one of the conscious victims will fight back and sue gotmatrix, movemeup and all other matrix scam for running a PYRAMID SCHEME and ILLEGAL LOTTERY.

This time, I hope they will include not only the pay processor, but other collaborators such as "matrix ranking sites" and "matrix certify site".

[Lancer]

Has anyone else noticed that nobody really ever answered the persons question? The people who responded just used the same old excuses but no one actually answered the question.

let me try to summarize the suggestions that I gather on this forum...
a. administrator should advertise more ..... let us know where did you advertise? ......Why can't we find them?
b. shorten the cycle length,..... for example the LCD 19" is a cycle of 18, should cut into half.
c. open new lists regularly ....
d. close matrix lists that are stagnant ..... give people site credit to move into other lists...
e. Raise more money on autocycle fund by opening a shop front to sell something. (e.g. gotmatrix treasures) Many lists need serious autocycle....

I thought this was rather funny because the person obviosly did not think about the outcomes of his idea. Look at choice D where he thinks people should be given credit on stagnant lists, If that happened then Greg would lose a lot of money because he would be giving out free money to people to use on other lists since the original money the customer spent already went to someone else. Also it was funny when the person asked about those HYIP programs. It was funny that GotMatrix supported Brideby since it closed down and many people got screwed out of their money. So many people thought that Brideby was their way to get out of the debt from matrix sites but all that happened is that they got suckered again and many lost even more money. I am thankful I did not join any of those programs, ever since AppleMatrix I am very skeptical about everything especially what goes on in the Matrix Community and when I saw all these HYIP things getting popular I knew something bad was going to happen. Anyways I would like to see someone honestly answer the question and not get so defensive over it. It was a really good question. People treated it as if it were anti-matrix but in reality it was just a concerend issue by a customer becoming worried about his investment.

P.S. Sorry I have not written in so long. I just lost interest in the whole matrix thing because I was getting no where with the AppleMatrix thing and I had a lot more things going on that I had to do. So whats up with the matrix community lately? Are a lot more sites starting to fail? How is the lawsuit going?

[Dreamer]

Well, I think GM is avoiding answering people in the forums anymore, and just remove posts they don't like. I'm not sure if this has always been common practice, since I just learned about matrix's last week. But, I posted a few times on GM, and instead of proving my postings wrong, within 12 hours they all vanished.

Even in their non-matrix forum, there was a posting of a randomizer with like 200+ replies. So, I put in my two cents there, and gm took that down also? They don't want me bad mouthing off a potential competitor (although its a different scam) of theirs, because they are still scamming money off of them.

I think it was GM, but I'm not sure, where somebody asked about starting up a new list, since all the old ones were too long. Well, suffice it to say, all the "regulars" HATED the idea...because they are still waiting to be cycled, and they know that if the newbies actually have a chance of getting something, they will never get their "prize".

[ycchen]

Welcome Dreamer! I saw your interesting posts on Gotmatrix forum 12 hours ago. I won't be surprised if they were removed ..:D

Greg is a lucky owner. He has a few loyalists who would do anything to protect their master. They might even willing to go to jail for him :D

Ashu do not have these loyalists to manage his forum, unfortuantely. I heard rumour that Greg might be packing his bags and prepare to flee! Is it true? :confused:

[Dreamer]

I'm still new to this whole matrix scam, so I might not be as fluent in this subject as most of you, but I do not like to see people scamed and lied to. It's unfortunate, because most people who buy into to the lie would more willingly walk away, knowing full well that it was a risk, rather than raise a fit over it. And, the more people who are willing to just walk away, the richer Greg and the rest of them get.

I personally think its hilarious that in his terms on his forums, that if you express an opinion that the mods don't want you to have, it will be edited or removed. I think any legimite business would more welcome a different point of view, so they can bring out the faults in their opponents logic so that their customers will know the truth. I'm sure if Nike was able to shut up their critics, and they weren't completely sweat-shops, they would allow them to be heard just to prove them wrong.

I will give you ever right in the world to call me stupid or to call me a liar, because I will defend to the end and prove you are wrong. But, if I am what you call me, the only option I have is to shurt you up so my reputation isn't tarnished.

There was an interesting thread about somebody waiting for their check. I think it was from the middle of February. He said he'd come back and let everybody know when he got it. Of course, all of Greg's Lackeys harped on the fact that they always got paid in 2 weeks (the same time it said in the FAQs, in the testimonals, and wherever...2 weeks...no more, no less), and its been 2 months. I raised that question, and of course, that had to be removed! How dare I suggest it was more than 2 weeks! Because, remember, Greg is a great and wonderful guy.

i don't know if I posted it there, or imatrix, or where, but people can be stupid. Chances are, if you don't think a conman is a great wonderful person, like everybody claims Greg is, than you won't be conned. Its hard to run a con when people don't like you. Heck, even after Ponzi was found out, and tried to pay back his loans, people still hailed him as a hero.

[Dreamer]

After a few days on GM, I have been banned for asking questions regarding their own rules and FAQs. Not once did they make an attempt to prove that its not a scam, but I guess they just got tired of deleting my messages, because I had the nerve to ask "Why is it better to delete postings, rather than reply to them to set the user right?"

The all mighty himself has some real scumbags as minions. If he is a legit business owner running a legit business, than he shouldn't be afraid to answer basic questions regarding his business model, and he should get rid of those who work for him that drive away customers instead of informing them.

[MatrixWatch]

Here is what one of their members said about you:

Emphasis added

He [Dreamer] hasn't angered me. He is being cynical and I respect that. Maybe he is saying what some are thinking and I'm glad he's bring up the questions because these things concern me too.


AND


Your questions are completely valid but they just don't like answering them. You'll continue to hit that brick wall until you cycle or until the site closes down. Your right to be skeptical because the owner does ZERO to help his own business but that's well known and accepted in here.


And here is what the customers are saying about Greg's recent vacation:


So he has no money to advertise, but he has money to go on a vacation....Well that reinforces my confidence in my purchase.....I've marked a FULL YEAR waiting for my product with still no movement on the list and this guy is out on vacation....Doesn't update, doesn't advertise, and expects ME to bring him more customers. Someone really needs to take over the reigns on this carriage cuz Greg is failing miserably.

[Dreamer]

I think one of his minions, in responce to my question regarding deleting postings instead of responding, responded by seeing that he saw me here.

If I really wanted to hide, its easy to submit a different name and email address to each site. But, I found that site first before I found this site, and I formed my conclusions by what I saw on another site I was posting on, and by seeing how that site was conducted.

I'm not sure how I found this site. I probably found it by googling "matrix scam", so I came here on my own free will, not by being brainwashed.

So, the way to respond to me was because he saw me here. Somebody else responded about the money he put in that site, so his responce was asking if he was the owner of a different site?

Everybody does seem scripted there. Greg is wonderful. Responds to emails quickly. 2 weeks. Greg is wonderful. Are they also trained by not asking questions, but saying things that just don't fit anywhere?

[concerned]

He went on a "vacation" and didn't tell anyone? What a laugh. I also heard a rumor that he moved also. I guess he really is finally packing it in, and running off.

Dreamer, welcome to this forum, where your questions will actually be answered, but from the sounds of things, and our recent posts over at theimatrix, you already have all the answers you need.

How are those Gotmatrix forums lately. As for getting banned, the same thing happened to me about 6 months ago, so I haven't been keeping track, but I'm sure that I've heard it all before. The really funny thing is that I work at a college (this is where matrix sites were really being marketed to, since college students don't have money, but would like a cheap computer/ps2/xbox). What he did, and I think it is still in effect, is that he banned the entire IP range owned by the school. Because of my skepticism and questions, he banned an entire college from "shopping" at his "business" or whatever he calls it. Now that's chasing away thousands of customers because I was asking probably the same questions that you were.

The other thing you might see is that they will think you are actually me. They can't comprehend that anyone else would ask questions about their scams. I think the matrix community thinks that I am the only person on the face of the planet that thinks matrix sites are a scam (good odds huh, 1 in 6 billion), and I am about 98% sure that they think you and I are the same person. Anyway, I just thought I would tell you that you aren't the only person that was censored on a matrix friendly forum. In fact, Watchdog started this forum, because he was sensored at other forums, and he was tired of the scams having total control of and trampling all over our 1st ammendment rights, especially when we speak the truth, and they only tell lies.

Anyway, welcome over to the good side, and have fun.

[concerned]

Originally posted by Dreamer
If I really wanted to hide, its easy to submit a different name and email address to each site

Well, if your IP address is banned, then you would have to find another place to do it from. If you do happen to ever see those forums again, here is something that is vry fun to watch. If someone asks which list is the fastest, or the best, I bet you will see about 20 people respond with 30 different lines, depending on which line they are on. It is truely funny. Even if someone wants a laptop computer, you will see someone tell them to invest in a Macintosh, and take the cash option. It is like feeding a bunch of vultures.

[Dreamer]

I've seen how some people responded to you on matrixagency. It seems like their responce to people's questions is to childish name calling.

I'm trying to give the lord emperor the benefit of the doubt of trying to run a legit operation. Even if is based on a scam, maybe he's different. But, I'll never know.

I know it is illegial to run lottos and raffles in California, but our shop did it anyways. Spend $10 there, and we'll put you in a $25 raffle, pick once a month. Was that illegial? As far as I know, sure. But, the point was to increase sales and reward customers. It wasn't an attempt at a scam, just a way to try to stay in business.

So, is it possible to run a matrix style system as a legit business plan? Well, if you can cycle every person who buys into it, than sure.

I guess I'll never know. But, I did find more sites to ask my questions on. All I want is an honest answer. Even if the honest answer is admitting that I put my name on the top of that matrix trying to sell cars, and all my loyal customers (my friends, if I had any) will be mad at me.

All I can assume that if somebody doesn't want to answer simple questions regarding their business plans, or anything, than they dont' want me to know the truth. Why would that be?

If you came into my shop, and asked me questions that I believed wasn't any of your business, I would answer as vaguely as possible, but not lie. What is the markup at my shop? Its none of your business...but I'd answer that the owner does the shopping and pricing, so I'm not sure. I didn't punch them in the nose and pretend like the question was never asked.

[concerned]

Originally posted by Dreamer
I've seen how some people responded to you on matrixagency. It seems like their responce to people's questions is to childish name calling.

That's another good one. If you read deeply in our forums, you will see a lot of information about Matrix Agency. You will find it very interesting to know that it is co-owned by Greg (Gotmatrix) and Ashu (theimatrix). I know that you have been posting at both of these sites, so don't expect anything different if you post at Matrix Agency.

The other funny thing about that is that they still don't see what a conflict of interest it was for them to own Matrix Agency and be able to tell others what sites are good, and which sites are bad. And yet, what is even funnier is that theimatrix is not even one of the approved sites. How can you not approve yourself? That still blows my mind. Anyway, you can probably guess that I am banned over at that place also.

[Dreamer]

I think thats how I originally found GM. I originally found imatrix, and saw that the owner started up the agency...that just sounded like a scam...just another way to try to legitimize their own sites, and make illegimate other sites.

I think I did read alot about the agency on this site...not sure if I got it all the way thru...its a joke.

Yeah, the owners of that site own their own matricies, so it does seem like a conflict of interest. But, I wouldn't waste my time there...I think its been deader than imatrix.

I could rehash what others said there, but you know all that. I thought it was funny that somebody had a complaint, and the wonderful agency admitted that they had no power to do anything. So, if you complain to them, the best they can do is ask pretty please the matrix if they would be willing to refund the money?

So, whats the point? The "agents" have interest in some sites, so they are biased. They already admitted that they have no authority to do anything. They belittle you.

Ok, if I come to Matrixwatch, I don't know if this site can do anything, but I read about lawsuits, I see how bitter owners are on these forums and other forums. I see nobody making an effort to prove that this site is full of crap. And, I feel I can post whats on my mind and it won't get deleted, so if members, or potential members of some of these sites see how the hierachy of their beloved sites act, maybe they'll finally start asking questions themselves.

[concerned]

Originally posted by Dreamer
Ok, if I come to Matrixwatch, I don't know if this site can do anything, but I read about lawsuits, I see how bitter owners are on these forums and other forums. I see nobody making an effort to prove that this site is full of crap. And, I feel I can post whats on my mind and it won't get deleted, so if members, or potential members of some of these sites see how the hierachy of their beloved sites act, maybe they'll finally start asking questions themselves.

Well, I hope that those others will start to ask the necessary questions. The problem is that their heads are still in the clouds about how amazing it is to get Plasma TVs for $200. It is the greed that keeps them going. Eventually they will come around, but not after they learn a valuable lesson.

I don't know if you have seen these sites yet.

www.matrix-sites.net.
www.top-matrix.com

At least there you can be more skeptical of the system, and a lot of times you will actually catch matrix owners catching other matrix owners in lies. The funny thing about those sites is that they talk about this site. They never tell people why we are wrong, but every once in a while you will see someone talk about filing a lawsuit against the owner of this site, and then you will see them all start talking about it. They praise the person as if they are a god. Then when we finally tell them that it was some scammer trying to start stuff up on the forums, they just claim that they don't care anymore. We know that some day when someone starts up another threat, they will all care again.

[Dreamer]

I think i visited them before, but didn't check out the forums. I have a major test tomorrow and on Saturday, so I'm sure I'll entertaine myself more by reading more. Its fascinating. Everybody must know its a scam. Bait you with electronics, switch you to buy an overpriced ebook (or in the site on ebay, send me $1000, and I'll send you a blank cd with a thank you note). Than, you sit around forever, hoping to get something, have to spend your money to advertise. People dont' want to give out their forms for ebay, because they want to sell the link?

Doesn't selling the link kind of defeat the purpose if it was legit? I paid $15 for this link, and you think I'm going to want to pay money here?

So, everybody in the system must know its a scam, but when you ask to be shown why its not a scam, you are called childish names, and your questions are either deleted, or never answered.

So, why do people still do it? When I asked why I should invest, I was told that matricies aren't for me and I should mow the lawn. I'm not sure how that answered my question.

Oh well. Time to burn more cds so I can get back early today to ask some more owners about their business. I am transfering $150 from my bank account to my paypal account, and I'll happily buy into any matrix that can satisify my questions with logical answers, even if they sound stupid.

[mikv]

well it looks like I've been away too long, this is starting to get good again....lol. SigX is really getting ticked about your questions Dreamer. He's even resorted to trying to figure out exactly who is asking these questions by tracing people's IP's and such it seems. Anything to dodge the question and take "Greg's good name" out of the mud. The fact of the matter is, there is nothing any of them can say at this point cause the site is slower than it's been in a long time and it is directly because the customers are listening more to these types of questions and they are noticing the cloud of smoke that SigX throws up to divert the "negativity". So as you said, they are hurting themselves by not answering and deleting posts. Even the die hards are questioning the way SigX is handling questions. I think I'll have to stick around for this, it might all unfold in the next few weeks if people will continue to question them.

[INTHECYCLE]

Heh heh, FINALLY I got on here. I have just been itching to get on here and talk about the scam that is gotmatrix but there must have been some trouble with the activation thing. But here I am straight off of gotmatrix and ready to talk. Bad thing is I have to wait because I did promise "someone" that I wouldnt talk sh** if "something" happened soon. And I, unlike other people, keep my promises so I'm not gonna spout just yet.

I would be very surprized though if Greg or Sigx doesn't ban me for my latest posts on their forums, but if any of you can still get on there check out the posts from INTHECYCLE, or at least the ones that are still there and not edited.

That pretty much sums it up with me. That's not taking into account the 10 or so posts that were deleted or the numerous emails that I sent to Greg that were never answered. Oh, and BTW, he says he never went on vacation and that that was just a lie that someone came up with. HAH! Well, I'm gonna wait a little while longer and if my needs aren't met, and they are not unreasonable, then I am gonna take the most extreme action that is afforded me against them and their affiliates.

So, I will be back and I probably will not be too happy. So, just keep an eye out for INTHECYCLE because its looking to get very interesting in the very near future.

P.S. Thanks watchdog for the timely reply to my email and the prompt activation of my account here at matrixwatch.

[mercinary]

That's pretty great that you've started firing back at gotmatrix. If I were you, I wouldn't limit myself to talking ^%$# if and only if you don't get "what you're looking for" (which I can only assume = a payoff). Greg & Co. are screwing you a and hundreds of other consumers with no care about anyone but themselves. Why should you do them a favor and not talk mess about them????? How many favors have they done you? Try to get your payoff and then backstab the daylights out of them.

Just my opinion.

-Merc

[ycchen]

INTHECYCLE , keep us posted if you get your refund from Greg. The excurse Greg always used to deny refund is: if I refund you, others will do the same, and the matrix scam will collapse.

However, Greg might occationally bow to seroius 'threat' (lawsuit...etc) . Remember to share you 'potentially successful refund' story so others can learn from your experience. .:)

[INTHECYCLE]

Mercenary,
The sad thing is,I'm not asking for the payoff, I just want my money back because of the lack of service that I received.And believe me it doesnt stop at talking sh**.


ycchen,
I'll definately keep everyone posted one way or another on my refund or lack thereof.


Thanks for the replies guys,it's great to see someone on my side. :D


P.S. Oh and Mercenary,I'm not keeping my promise to them out of any respect or benefit for them but if I were to break my promise I wouldnt be any better than them and I picture myself a little better if not much better than that.

[Dreamer]

Posting your story isn't a matter of who is right and wrong. Ok, wait until after its all said and done, and post anyways.

If you were talking about a legit business operation, I would agree...try to resolve the issue as bst as you can before you take it elsewhere. I guess you've had successes at other matrix sites. Irregardless of your success ratio, its an illegial operation. Its a ponzi scheme (although with ponzi there was actually a way he had to make the money that he never did), deceptive advertising (if matrix sites are so great and wonderful, why are they charging on ebay for the link, instead of giving it away), and bait and switch (you want to buy cheap electronics? Let me sell you this outrageously expensive ebook).

I think your experiences in general would be valuable for anybody, but if you don't share them, eventually, I think you would be doing a disservice to the people still believing this scam.

I also emailed greg, asking how come he has his moderators delete important questions instead of answering them. I told him that it looks very fishy like they are hiding the truth, and pushing away potential customers because of these practices. Its going on like 2 weeks now, and he hasn't responded yet. So, his mods are acting like this. He is acting like this. I think its almost time for a new round of questions on the site. Wait, they IP banned me...damn dynamic IP address *sigh*. Damn community college with lots and lots of computers. Damn kinkos, where I can spend $.40 to cut and paste something from a disk.

[INTHECYCLE]

Hah hah you misunderstood me dreamer,I never said that I wasnt going to share my story.I said that I wasnt going to share my story until my demands are met,at least thats what I meant if I didnt say it,after that then its full speed ahead.I dont care what the almighty Greg thinks,I'm going forward with my plans regardless of what happens.And ,Dreamer, You dont need to explain the matrix being a scam to me or compare it to the ponzi scam or any other scam for that matter.I think that with the little dealings I've had with gotmatrix and other sites that I am on the other side of the scams man,I'm on your side so please dont try to talk me over to here.I've had enough of that over at gotmatrix with all the morons over there that support the system and in particular the supporters of Greg.:D

[mercinary]

Don't worry INTHECYCLE. We're all on your side, trust me. Welcome to the good side! : )

-Merc

[concerned]

INTHECYCLE

I hope you put a time limit on your demands, because from my experience with these scammers, your demands won't be met. I hope you said something like "give me a refund within 2 weeks, or something worse will happen." That will give you a way out of your promise that you will keep quiet till the demands are met.

Good luck with your fight.

GO GET THEM!!!

[INTHECYCLE]

Thanks guys,And yes I did put a time limit on my demands only I put a little more pressure on him than 2 weeks.I told him that I better get at least an email confirmation within a couple days,And I also told him that if I didnt that my new friends over at MW would like to know about it heh heh.I'm so surprised that I'm not banned yet lol.

Thanks for the support guys.

[concerned]

Being that you are not banned, can mean 1 of 2 things.

1)He is affraid of what the other customers will do when they see that a paying customers was banned and doesn't want the whole group running this way. He may also want to try to use you to make him look like a hero, because he claims to be "customer service" oriented. He may claim that he was a "good person" even to someone like you, and then all the brainwashed people over there will praise him.

2)This is more likely the situation. He hasn't visited the forums in quite a while. I know that I was banned a long time ago, and he banned me very fast. What I think is going on is that he hasn't visited the site, and the mods don't have the powers to ban you. That's my opinion, anyway.

Hopefully you can finally get what you want accomplished.

Good Luck.

[MatrixWatch]

I remember when I was a customer at EzExpo. I gave a pretty reasonable time frame for my refund request. Then, I mailed out a couple "last chance" emails. I said that if I did not receive a refund then I would take legal action.

That matrix site is now gone, in addition to nearly 150 others.

As long as you are somewhat polite on their forums, and respectful to the other GM members who have not yet experienced what you have, I seen no reason why they would not join you in your endeavor to get everyone's money through the legal system (if that is your backup plan after this).

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by INTHECYCLE
I'm so surprised that I'm not banned yet lol.


We have seen many sites enter this phase, and the owners have different ways of dealing with it.

Usually, a matrix owner has a couple die-hard supporters, some of which are actually aliases of the owner himself. When someone like you, Dreamer, Concerned, etc. come around and starts to call the legitimacy of the site's struction into question the diehards will form a method of attack.

Here is usually what happens:

Phase 1: Subtely undermine the person's statements against the matrix, and see if a roar of customers follow suit.

Phase 2: Insult the person and see if the customers support a call to ban the person. The call to ban this person will usually be done through an alias.

Phase 3: Completely ignore the person, but put lots of effort into getting everyone worked up about how the lists are moving again. (i.e. distract the customers from the real issues)
This may be their approach with you, and that is why you are not banned yet.


You can see a general theme-- Keep the customers in a mob, and don't allow individuality of mindset to threaten the status quo. Scam cultures work the same way as cults. If you can scare people into thinking that they need to go with the flow, then you will be able to get them to insult any "outsiders" who rally them to a lawsuit, etc.

I have seen people go through several matrix crashes, and still support the owners. Heck, there are forums out there where they all still hang out. They don't support matrix sites anymore, but they are still in that cultic, anti MW, mindset that they had in their matrix days. I really pity them, because they are looking for a community, but they still hear the matrix owners' voice in their heads when they seek to think for themselves.

GotMatrix will continue to create this cultic mindset among their customers, because if they succeed at doing that then it is easy to get their customers to do other things. (Such as, invest in all kinds of crazy new schemes to support an auto-cycle fund)

The customers at GotMatrix appear to be much wiser than the other groups we have seen. What is most strikingly different at GotMatrix is that many of the customers are not supporting the die-hards, so the die-hards have to support one another. This is an effort to pump excitement into a subject and help the supporters feel like they are accomplishing something. Unfortunately, the customers will continue to move their support out from underneath the die-hards, the owner, and the "powers-that-be". The die-hards at GM will be there supporting one another while the customers are creating an effort to get their money back.

[INTHECYCLE]

Thank you guys for the feedback,its really helpful to me when deciding what I should do and when I should do it.I just wanted to state that when I did ask for my money back the first time,because of the lack of service and support meaning that I did not get put onto the list and I did not get my ebooks,I was immediately put onto the list and I received an email with the link to download the ebooks and the list "mysteriously" had quite a few people under me,at least enough to get me off of the helpers list and onto the next to cycle list.Am I wrong in thinking this is somewhat suspicious? And the names under me all have "pending" next to their names so thats all the more suspicious.

I have been nothing but polite to the customers and very polite to a point with the mods and with Greg.What I mean by "to a point" is I was polite and understanding of their situation or whatever UNTIL I started getting my posts edited and deleted just because of a simple question or a statement of "i'm not on the list yet" what can I do? That statement and question was immediately deleted and when I asked why it was deleted in a reply post, that post was edited and they told me that that was my first warning.After that happened thats when I blew up and started letting everyone know what was happening to me and that it was very unprofessional of the mods and Greg to act in such a manner,some agreed of course but most just act like its something wrong with the program or something and it is a singular case and it hasnt happened before,which I doubt,.I have since emailed Greg several times about my money with no response and am on the brink of destroying everything Greg has worked for and dreamed of which makes me sad because of all the innocent customers that will probably lose their money because of what I am gonna do.And you know,I dont really care about the measly 30 dollars that I spent on that site,its the great injustice that was done to me and all the "customers" because some IDIOT wants to make a quick buck.Well I'm through with it and something drastic is about to happen.:mad: :mad: :mad:

[concerned]

Originally posted by INTHECYCLE
Thank you guys for the feedback,its really helpful to me when deciding what I should do and when I should do it.I just wanted to state that when I did ask for my money back the first time,because of the lack of service and support meaning that I did not get put onto the list and I did not get my ebooks,I was immediately put onto the list and I received an email with the link to download the ebooks and the list "mysteriously" had quite a few people under me,at least enough to get me off of the helpers list and onto the next to cycle list.Am I wrong in thinking this is somewhat suspicious? And the names under me all have "pending" next to their names so thats all the more suspicious.

Remember, as far as I know, you are supposed to be entitled to a refund within the first 24 hours. If they didn't even allow you to have access to the list so that you can see it, then how is it fair to only be a 24 hour refund policy. You should fight that you requested the refund within 24 hours of being placed on the list. I think there is something shady going on when they claim that there is a 24 hour refund, but they don't even respond to you until weeks later. They are definately deceiptful.

I have been nothing but polite to the customers and very polite to a point with the mods and with Greg.What I mean by "to a point" is I was polite and understanding of their situation or whatever UNTIL I started getting my posts edited and deleted just because of a simple question or a statement of "i'm not on the list yet" what can I do? That statement and question was immediately deleted and when I asked why it was deleted in a reply post, that post was edited and they told me that that was my first warning.After that happened thats when I blew up and started letting everyone know what was happening to me and that it was very unprofessional of the mods and Greg to act in such a manner,some agreed of course but most just act like its something wrong with the program or something and it is a singular case and it hasnt happened before,which I doubt,.

I have a degree in business, and I am always amazed with the way these people act. Whatever happened to the "customer is always right?" I guess it doesn't apply when you are trying to SCAM your CUSTOMERS. They don't take the time to answer those questions because they can't afford to leave any doubts in the minds of other customers. If they let the customers ask those questions, then the newbies that they want to scam next will be that much more informed, and will make sure not to get scammed.

I have since emailed Greg several times about my money with no response and am on the brink of destroying everything Greg has worked for and dreamed of which makes me sad because of all the innocent customers that will probably lose their money because of what I am gonna do.And you know,I dont really care about the measly 30 dollars that I spent on that site,its the great injustice that was done to me and all the "customers" because some IDIOT wants to make a quick buck.Well I'm through with it and something drastic is about to happen.:mad: :mad: :mad:

First of all, you need to remember that those customers have ALREADY lost that money. This is not an investment. That money is already gone. The only way to get what you paid for is to scam other people into thinking this is a legitimate opportunity, but in the end, you are no better than the original scammer. Those people lost their money when they were decieved into believing that the system works.

Also, what do you mean by "everything Greg has worked for?" Haven't you been paying attention? Greg doesn't do any work, except funnel money from victims to scammers. What work has he done for his own "business" that makes you feel bad?

Has he done any advertising? NO!!! Customers do ALL the advertising. I don't remember having to advertise for Coke, so that they will be around long enough so that I can buy more coke. They advertise for themselves. That is the first tell tale sign of the scam.

Has he sought out legal help to make sure he complies with the laws? NO!!! But he claims that it is LEGAL. Where did he get that information from?

Did he listen to all the warnings(frozen pay processor accounts, chargebacks, other lawsuits) about this unethical system? NO!!! He just kept getting new accounts, and then blamed us when another account got frozen. It isn't Matrix Watch that freezes the accounts. It is the company. If I report Best Buy for something, and the company thinks I am wrong, they aren't going to freeze Best Buy's account. That is dumb.

Has he been telling the truth about his system? NO!!! You saw the proof when they deleted the posts that talk about the truth. I'm sure they are probably still telling you that it will take 3-7 months, yet the math states that it can take up to 30+years.

In the end, I don't think you need to worry about the customers. While they are still following the leader like a bunch of lemmings, some day they will thank you for what you did. Don't worry about anything but yourself. That's all that they are doing. Remember, they don't care about you. They only care about cycling themselves off the list and making the profit.

[INTHECYCLE]

concerned wrote:

Also, what do you mean by "everything Greg has worked for?" Haven't you been paying attention? Greg doesn't do any work, except funnel money from victims to scammers. What work has he done for his own "business" that makes you feel bad?

Well , first off , I do not in the least bit feel bad about taking down Greg or his band of misfits.That is not what I said or meant.Secondly I was just stating that everything that he created and hoped for and dreamed about is about to be crushed.And trust me,nothing makes me happier.But even though most customers are supporters of the matrix and in particularly Greg some if not all , at least at some point , are or were innocent and seeing the inevitability of the situation are just trying to do what it takes to get out of it.I'm in no means saying its right to try to get other people to join the scam but some people really dont know any better way to get out of it once they realize the scam.And it is for those people and the ones that just got into it thinking they are going to get something that they will never see that I am sad for.Some people went on there and spent a considerable amount of money at first glance and just dont realize the scam that they are in.

Yeah,the peoples money is gone,but it shouldnt be.And If I or any other person takes down Greg and his minions then all hope is lost at a recovery of that money because even if he is ordered by the court to repay all of it,it doesnt seem logical that he will or even can.Thats what makes me feel bad but I will tell you that that is not going to stop me from going ahead with my plans.He will pay and he will pay dearly.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by INTHECYCLE
all hope is lost at a recovery of that money because even if he is ordered by the court to repay all of it,it doesnt seem logical that he will or even can.

Actually, we have developed different legal strategy. In addition to the matrix site being named as a defendant, the pay companies associated with that matrix site are also listed. The pay companies are alleged to be liable, and they must refund the victims along with the other defendants.

I actually think that this is the best option for Greg. He will not need to go through the trouble of dealing with all the victims himself from now on. If he submits himself to a lawsuit, then he can tell his customers that GM has been sued and it is now in the hands of the justice system. He won't need to worry about the site anymore. The customers won't need to worry either, since their money will be frozen up in the processors until a decision is made.

I think that the customers will have a stronger certainty of getting their money back through the courts than through the matrix as it now stands. Our statistics team has analyzed that it will take about 30 years to cycle over there. A lawsuit lasting 6-10 months is a better option in my opinion.

BTW- Many customers of over 30+ matrix sites will soon their money from a recent conclusion of the Pay-Request lawsuit. Also, customers in states outside CA will be about to get some info here very soon that they can use in small-claims courts across the nation. This is one example of a positive outcome that has come to people under the umbrella of a class-action lawsuit.

You would need to speak with an attorney to get the details on your individual situation through...

[ycchen]

Let me repeat one minor point. Matrix-site is not an ethical business. It is a scam, a pyramid/ponzi scheme. The only thing the owner does is to scam the money from newbies (through lies), keep 10-50% in his/her own pocket, and distribute the remaining to the top 5-20% of the customer in the waiting list. That's all.

Most customers -- old or new -- are victim of this scam (except for a few speculators who knows how to exploit this system to their own benefit. For example, the speculative activitiy on $500 super fast list is the best example) because they thought they can get their 'free gift' in a "very short time". (the average waiting time is 16 years for newbies who invest in 2004, except for few new items and $500 super fast item).

Therefore, it is an ethical act to stop this pyramid/ponzi scam before it creates more victims. Yeah, those in the cycling position might not be happy (especially those have wait for more than a year reach to top 2-20%) BUT the bottom 80-98% of the silent majority will appreciate the effort!

[INTHECYCLE]

Well Ive got some good news I guess,Greg did honor my refund,And he did apologize for any inconvenience that I had with the site.I am currently waiting to see the money that he said was refunded to me.He DID take me off the list which,I might add,was faster than I was put on it.I do thank you guys for all the support and I will keep you updated on any further action that might be taken.

[ycchen]

Greg DOES refund his customers as long as you know how to ask for it. ..:D

[marlav]

HI , I am new to this forum, but wanted to know about the lawsuit that is referred to in the forum. Can anyone join? I signed up for the $25 Matrix at Gotmatrix - and I have not moved up at all - there must be THOUSANDS ahead of me. I thought since only two people had to join - I would move up quickly - boy was I wrong. I am thinking to ask for a refund - but I think I already know the answer to that one. Any info would be appreciated.

Marlav

[concerned]

The lawsuits that are mentioned are in the download section. As far as I know, there isn't a lawsuit against Gotmatrix yet, but you never know if someone just hasn't told us about it yet. My suggestion is to get in contact with Watchdog here at this site, and possibly, you could send your story to his lawyer that has links here also. I would first try to get a refund, but if that isn't successful, it is really up to you to consider your next move.

Hope this helps
Good Luck

[FightingBack]

Originally posted by marlav
HI , I am new to this forum, but wanted to know about the lawsuit that is referred to in the forum. Can anyone join? I signed up for the $25 Matrix at Gotmatrix - and I have not moved up at all - there must be THOUSANDS ahead of me. I thought since only two people had to join - I would move up quickly - boy was I wrong. I am thinking to ask for a refund - but I think I already know the answer to that one. Any info would be appreciated.

Marlav

For more information contact the lawyer that is listed on this site. I'm sure he could give you some details.

However, I've been scammed on matrix sites a few times, and the time and effor to sue is not worth it, (my opinion, don't flame me.) Look at this lawsuit against EZEXPO, it's taking years to solve.

However, I'm not saying it's a bad idea to start a lawsuit etc. But for $25 loss, I wouldn't even bother.

With the matrix sites I can think of that I've been scammed out of, it's probably close to $1,000. But then again, I probably didn't do anything about it because I earned more than this back on the matrix sites.

But hey, if you want to fight for justice and help people like WatchDog, then go for it.

[MatrixWatch]

A few of the other lawsuits have already been resolved, and the door has been opened for victims to lay claim to the settlements. If the victims reside outside California, they can now take the case to small-claims court and pursue restitution from the matrix sites, PayRequest, or both.

So, the last post is a little biased indeed. This person would not be "helping people like WatchDog", he or she would be helping themselves and thousands of other victims.

Just imagine how many more people would be getting sucked in if it were not for our efforts here.

[concerned]

Originally posted by watchdog
This person would not be "helping people like WatchDog", he or she would be helping themselves and thousands of other victims.

I'm not too sure what he meant, but when I read it, I thought he meant that he would be "helping people just like watchdog helps people thru these lawsuits." We all know that filing the lawsuits won't help you, but it will help the thousands of permanent helpers.

[mikv]

I didn't want to throw this thread off, but I didn't think this needed its own thread, anyway.........

Has Greg finally given up??

Reading through his forum the past couple of days and I've noticed that even the most die hard members are now singing a different tune. They are now getting increasingly frustrated with Greg's refusal to answer emails or even pay out the cyclers. There are a couple of members that have cycled over a month ago and they haven't been contacted about it and they have not received the gift or cash equivelant.

, the following two posts give you a good example of how the members are taking it......

QUOTED From GotMatrix Forum:
"I was voting 7 days a week, but stopped once it became evident, through his lack of customer service, that Greg has no regard for his customers these days . I still haven't received my check from positions cycled over a month ago and can't get him to return my emails....if he doesn't care about his business anymore, than neither do I".

another member typed:
"No No notification email on my cycling a month ago. No response to emails sent last week. Will continue to sent emails this week. Maybe the owner is making more money at Got-Host? than he is here at Got Matrix?. hehehehehe I certainly understand a persons lack of interest under these circumstances. I am afraid I too have become disenchanted with this site and somewhat irritated by the owner's lack of attention to the expressed concerns of his customers. This is not the way to run a business."

Not even SigX97 the MOD of the Forum can get ahold of Greg these days, heres his reply to these two members:

"Man that sucks you cant get any responses. I wish I could help you."


It's strange how the site went down completely over a week ago to fix some "script errors", and now nothing is being updated since the script was supposedly fixed and nobody can get ahold of Greg. He doesn't answer emails and when he does it seems he's very vague in his replies if he even addresses the problem at all. There has been a little bit of updating on a couple of the lists, but the members cycling are waiting over a month to receive anything. Seems to me that the ship is sinking even further and Greg isn't gonna go down with it anymore...

[concerned]

That is funny. I bet that Sigx97 is REALLY thinking this:

Sorry I cannot help you, but I cannot, because I have all of your money in my pocket.

I am also willing to bet that Sigx97 is still getting his checks in the mail, even though everyone else is getting scammed. I have had a theory for a while that Ashu, Sigx97 and Greg are all either friends, or the same person. If you look at the top of those lines, Sigx97 and Ashu's names appear a lot. My theory is that the site is running long enough to cycle those "friends" or fake names, and then it will quit. Since there are still some lists with Sigx97's name in them, they are operating long enough to cycle those names out, and then will close for good.

[mikv]

Funny you type that concerened, SigX has had a payment or two sent to him in the past couple of weeks, he's typed it on the forum that he is receiving his payments when he cycles and I believe the last one was pretty recent.....

I'm not sure about Ashu, but I have long thought that Greg and SigX are the same person or partners in crime......
This is definitely not looking good for the thousands of names at the bottoms of thier lists.

Greg is showing all the signs of shadiness that all other matrix owners have shown right before they close up and run off.

[concerned]

Originally posted by mikv
Funny you type that concerened, SigX has had a payment or two sent to him in the past couple of weeks, he's typed it on the forum that he is receiving his payments when he cycles and I believe the last one was pretty recent.....

Sigx97 I think is told to do this so that it looks like the customers are getting some kind of service. I can't imagine that the people that have been waiting a month to hear from Greg about their money, are buying into the fact that Sigx97 is still getting checks and they aren't. Maybe these people are just very gullable, but who knows. All I can say is that at one time I used to feel sorry for these people, but they really aren't using good judgement in trusting these matrix owners. I guess that saying is really true. There is a SUCKER born every day.

The more that this happens, the less sorry I feel, because these people are acting very gullable and desperate just to try to make a few bucks. At some point they just need to realize that they got scammed so that they can learn their lessons. Nothing else will help these hopeless souls anymore, and that is a shame.

Originally posted by mikv
I'm not sure about Ashu, but I have long thought that Greg and SigX are the same person or partners in crime......


Well, Ashu and Greg own Matrix Agency, and they both claim to be from Cincinnati. In the matrix world, that is enough for me to be suspecious. On top of that, have you seen the forum at theimatrix? Go over there to see that ghost town. This was posted over there last week.

guys, sorry, but you're all screwed. The owner, the "honest Ashu," is currently in Mexico on "vacation" with money that he "saved up." I know him personally, and he hasn't been in town for at least 6 weeks. Cut your losses, ask for a refund, and be prepared to bend over when he tries to worm his way out of it. Good luck

Wow, seems kind of fishy that it has been roughly the same 6 week time period that Greg has been missing in action. This isn't just a mere coincidence to me. What do you think?

[ycchen]

These two websites are almost identical. They even share the same password :D I won't be surprised if "Greg" and "Ashu" are the same person.

Well, it does not matter much because both ships are sinking! If I were Greg, what I will do is to pay one most noisy customers (in addition to Sigx97) on the forum becasue they will be happy and post their testimonial immediately. It will calm the nerve of the others for another few weeks.

Therefore, for those who want to get their 'cycled' money or refund, you have to be the noisy one. But you have to post faster than sigx97 is able to delete them :D

Don't write one email per week to Greg. Write 10 emails a day, and that's the only hope you can get your share of the scammed money before gotmatrix sinks to the bottom of the ocean. Good luck.

To marixagency people who claim to hold the real identity of gotmatrix's owner, please be prepared to mediate into this dispute, or else, many diehard gotmatrix supporters will be rushing over here for Greg's real name, personal contact number and home address.

I have one suggestion. For those supporters who can manage to get the home address of Greg, try to pay a visit to Greg's apartment and see if he is still living there, perhaps with his partner -- Ashu ..:D We can't just let the scammers get away that easily, we need to start the investigation before they moved out of their current address!

ADD: my point is that 'diehard supporters' or the heavy investors should start organizing themselves. They should start a campaign similar to the "PPP-powerbook" strategy to protect their invested money. Don't just wait patiently for Greg to show up once a while, go and talk to him directly. Ask him about what is going on and his long term vision of gotmatrix. Who knows, he might be working 5 jobs in order to refund everyone. Or he might be playing computer game with Ashu at their basement while chatting with his Robin (sigx97) on AOL ...:D

[Dreamer]

I don't think the all-mighty himself moved to mexico just yet. There are just too many die-hards who think he is all powerful and all great. I think while there are people left to be scammed, he'll be there waiting with an open wallet. But, now that gotmatrix seems to be moving to a virtual ghost town, there is a new site that just opened up. Anybody like to make a wager who owns that new killer site that everybody is supporting already?

I don't think they need to cycle out SigX. I doubt thats even any of his money in there. But, he isn't doing such a great job hunting down all the bad postings and deleting them faster than you can submit them. I think he's moving on to another scam.

I still feel sorry for these people who get suckered into it. I would "invest" $100 to get an alienware laptop, even if it took years. Thats what people think...eventually they'll get their item.

I was thinking of a different angle, though. Aren't the pictures that they use copywrited by the respective owners? If you are running a legit business, you can use their pictures and trademarks sometimes, but even we ran into problems using a hotwheels logo to advertise hotwheels without their approval. Luckily nothing happened to us.

But what about contacting the manufactures and letting them know that their products are being used, possibly without their permission, to run illegial ponzi schemes? Don't you think it might be in their interest to take action against these sites because they are dragging their names thru the mud?

I think gotmatrix will slowly just become theimatrix. Somebody will pay for 99 years to keep the site up and running, and nobody will be paid out ever until everybody just gives up on it.

[MatrixWatch]

That may be the case, but what about those customers who invested thousands? They will want to get their money back.

They will either:

1. File a chargeback with their credit-card company

OR

2. File a class-action lawsuit in order to get as much money back from the processors as possible.

Either of these will sink gotmatrix, and thus the customers will not be on a list for years and years to come. At some point the site will shut down.

And that new matrix site that everyone is investing in? Same problem. Once the lists get long it will become another GotMatrix. Just like GotMatrix became another EzExpo. There are no changes being made to the structure of the matrix. It is stiill illegal and vulnerable to chargebacks and lawsuits.

[FightingBack]

Originally posted by watchdog
[B]That may be the case, but what about those customers who invested thousands? They will want to get their money back.

They will either:

1. File a chargeback with their credit-card company

OR

2. File a class-action lawsuit in order to get as much money back from the processors as possible.


I hate to burst your bubble, but you do not know that for a fact. Yes the site will shutdown at some time, but you do not know that customers who spent a lot will file a lawsuit or chargeback their credit card.

[MatrixWatch]

You are right.. I don't know this for a fact. However, I have seen it happen at several sites over the past 15 months. I just don't see someone who spent, let's say, $2000 waiting around for 25 years to cycle when they could just call their bank or credit-card company and get 100% of it back through a chargeback.

GotMatirx is a fraud and a scam. That is why the banks and credit-card companies are so accomodating to the customers when they report a site like GotMatrix.com.

As far as the lawsuit, heck, I could file one against GotMatrix tomorrow if I wanted to. Even if I have never been a customer.

The customers at GotMatrix are smart enough to know when to see through the scam for what it is. Greg is totally overwhelmed with the fact that the matrix is beginning to collapse. He probably receives hundreds of emails a week with people complaining and sharing their fears/frustrations with the site.

He has passed the psychological point of getting the site to work, and he is now plotting his exit strategy. Anyone in his position would. He has accepted nearly a half-million dollars from customers, and if he plans his escape just right he can run off with most of it. All he has to do is keep people minimally happy, and his moderators will do the job at keeping the hype up. Before long, it will be too late for the customers to do anything and they will lose their money.

We don't want this to happen, and that is why we are trying our best to reach out to them with a helping hand. They will never cycle. We have mathematically calculated it. They CAN get their money back from a lawsuit or chargeback though.

[concerned]

Originally posted by watchdog
And that new matrix site that everyone is investing in? Same problem. Once the lists get long it will become another GotMatrix. Just like GotMatrix became another EzExpo. There are no changes being made to the structure of the matrix. It is stiill illegal and vulnerable to chargebacks and lawsuits.

The funny thing is that all these new sites keep saying that with the right amount of work, they will all be the next Gotmatrix. Given the latest consumer uprising, I can't believe they would want to compare themselves with Gotmatrix.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. YOU MIGHT JUST GET IT.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by concerned
The funny thing is that all these new sites keep saying that with the right amount of work, they will all be the next Gotmatrix.

I remember back when sites like GotMatrix were saying that with they right amount of work, they would be the next EzExpo. They are about one lawsuit short of that.

[ycchen]

Gotmatrix will continue to be around to scam newbies for a while, but will not stay until X'mas for sure...:D

With our hardworking eBay watchdogs + continuing analysis and consumer awareness raising + consumer uprising at the gotmatrix and other owner's forum, gotmatrix and others (except those in the U.K) will see their sales nose diving, while charge back sky rocketing. If this trend continue, the 20% (on average) that the owners pocketed will dry out very fast, and soon, they will be in deficit mode.

Greg is definitely NOT in the deficit mode yet (the matrix is running in deficit mode, not the owner, so don't confuse the two), or else he won't be paying the minimum -- only noisy customers.

However, if Greg and owners find their profit evaporate fast (mainly due to charge back), the only thing they will do is RUN!

Greg is still far from there. He can still do the right thing. Close the scam and refund all the victims of his scam. But I don't think he will if no serious lawsuit is filed against him.

[Dreamer]

I'm starting to like the all-mighty himself now. On the forums, people have been complaining for like a month easily that they emailed and emailed his greatness many times and no responce. That they cycled and didn't hear from him. Even his butt-buddy himself admitted that he hasn't heard from the one he lusts after for weeks. But, of course, he is still getting his checks. He's the only one.

The his lordship comes on the forum and says he responded to everybody already. So, basicaly he came online to call everybody a liar. Now he is saintly again, can do no wrong. I bet the postings have been disappearing lately pretending like nobody has every complained.

Not that there is much going on there anyways. I haven't been there in a month or however long ago I was banned, and I still see people mention me. I was posting for a couple days to a week, and people are still talking about me? Why can't they post here if they are that interested in what I have to say instead of speculating what I said, etc.

[ycchen]

Originally posted by Dreamer
Then his lordship comes on the forum and says he responded to everybody already. So, basicaly he came online to call everybody a liar. Now he is saintly again and can do no wrong. I bet the postings have been disappearing lately and the adminstration is pretending like nobody has every complained.

Unfortunately, most people still are not getting his emails. One of his diehard supporters even suggested that there is something wrong with his outgoing email...lol... If I remember correctly, Greg is a computer geek, isn't he? How can he not able to fix his 'outgoing mail' problem... that is really a stretch. A better excuse is that his ex-gf (or mother in law if you prefer) is in town :D

I guess I might be 'too optimistic' about Greg handling the current crisis. He has paid his super moderator -- Sigx97 to continue to delete unfavorable posts. He should have paid a few outspoken ones as well. Without the outspoken customers on his site, he is putting sigx97 in a very difficult position, even though his loyalty to greg is unquestionable!

I think Greg might have a more serious problem than I would imagine. Again, I urge his customers to visit him in person to make sure that he has not abandoned his oblication. Remember the PPP-Powerbook story? (can anyone put a link here), it is time for gotmatrix customers to get organized to protect their consumer rights.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by Dreamer

I haven't been there in a month or however long ago I was banned, and I still see people mention me. I was posting for a couple days to a week, and people are still talking about me? Why can't they post here if they are that interested in what I have to say instead of speculating what I said, etc.


What I also notice is that the diehard supporters of GotMatrix, those who have their name near the top of a list, never directly repond the claims we make here. They may throw some mud, or attack us personally, but never a logical response to the arguments we have made. This is pure, cultic behavior, and it is a shame that they expect the customers of GotMatrix to fall for it, which they won't.

We have laid out clear and logical arguments for why GotMatrix is not only a total ripoff, but questionably legal. Pay Processors do not go around freezing the accounts of legitimate businesses. Yet, 75% of the processors that serviced matrix sites will not even go near them anymore. This spells trouble for the future of any matrix site, and it is not wise for someone to claim that they are, "...doing what I want to with my money..." when that money is at a high risk of disappearing.

One would have better odds at taking that money and starting a legitimate business of there own, rather than spending it on a matrix site.

The customers of GotMatrix still have a shot at getting their money back, but with the way that Greg is acting, I doubt that the window will be open much longer.

[chellasmatrix]

For all the supporters on this site, what do you all think now that the gotmatrix site has closed?? You still think it's the best matrix site around????

[ycchen]

I am confident that they had changed of heart. :) Of course, if Greg "turns on" his scam site again, pay a few, and gives a milion apologies, then he will probably save a few supporters, but not all. Why? Because he won't pay all of the cycled members, AND they are at least 80-95% of the donors who will NEVER get anything.

So, Greg's support has PERMANENTLY destroyed, and he can only blame himself for operating a pyramid scam.

My main concern is that victims of gotmatrix are not acting fast enough. By the time the police reaches his doorstep, he and his family might have dissappeared already :(

[mercinary]

Ycchen is 100% right. I have yet to receive info about anyone who has contacted the Cincinnati police department and received a case #. I know of one person who emailed the police department there, and had not heard anything back.

Our advice to the Gotmatrix victims: You must take this into your own hands and bring Greg Day to justice. We (the administration of Matrixwatch.org) are not victims, and can't file the complaints for you. Only you can help yourselves! Go here:

http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?p=15407#post15407

Contact all the agencies listed, filing a complaint with each one. If all the victims contact all of the agencies, then this cannot be ignored!

-Merc

[mercinary]

Anyone reading this post should be sure to check out the following link (if you have not done so already).

http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?p=15407#post15407

-Merc