A solution for the matrix?

[Necrodreamer]

I wanted to start of by telling everyone hello... so, Hello! :)

I sure wish I would have know about this site some time ago so I wouldnt be 100.00 down 3 months now waiting to cycle on alpinematrix.com... but, I was willing to take a chance AND a loss so... who cares.

Anyways.... I have read and read and read here and at other matrix watch sites and realize the paradox that all matrix sites come to... after the site fulfills its duties by becoming extremely popular due to advertisement, etc... no matter how faithful the intentions were initially - the result is too many people waiting on too many lists until cycling ceases.

Now, god knows I HATE these sites for their non-professional mannerisms. BUT, instead of trying to become millionaires over the crap why not just put a fixed limit on the lists until the last person cycles to then allow another opening and keeping the amount of lists down? Do you think they are too greedy and that would limit their earnings? Or has this been pondered before and there is some hang up that I am not aware of? Just wondering...

Have a great evening everyone!

[ycchen]

Originally posted by Necrodreamer
... why not just put a fixed limit on the lists until the last person cycles to then allow another opening and keeping the amount of lists down? How do you do that? Where would the owner get the money to pay the last 80-90% of the helpers?

The number of list and the length of each list do not matter much at all. It is the pyramid nature of the matrix that is fundamentally fraudulent.

No matter how many list, or how short the cycle length you are talking about, there is always 80-98% of helpers stuck PERMANENTLY in any lists. How do you get the money to cycle all of them IF you decide the close one of the list at some point?

Let say a cycle of 10. You stop the list at 50. So, no one can add to the #51 position. The profile of this list will look like:

Total customer: 50
Total Cycled: 5
Total Helpers: 45

Where are you going to get the money to cycle the 45 helpers? May be I misundertood your question. If so, please clarify.

[Necrodreamer]

Well, really I was thinking of just starting one of one of those money websites with only like 4 lists total (25.00, 50.00, 75.00, and 100.00). I just didnt know how to get around the whole lists getting bigger thing that we are talking about. So, lets assume there is a 50.00 list It is 25.00 to join, and takes three people to cycle. So, you have a link in the unbought spots that say "buy in" by the way, I would have scripts designed that make this realtime and automated.

so, john signs up

$50
John - waiting to cycle
Jeff - helper
Buy In Here

So, Chris comes along, hits Buy In Here and purchases a 25.00 membership in the list. The list updates and puts Chriss name in the Buy In Here spot to stop others from joining until I hit payment sent to John on the admin side. John then dissappears from the list and Jeff moves up and Buy In here appears again whil Chris moves up to helper status.

PROBLEMS eliminated.... no huge lists... no website owner HOLDING large amounts of money until the next person cycles to make you "unsure". I would also have uncensored forums to get the "homely" feeling and security... I make a little extra money and the visitors double theirs. As bonuses, I would eat the cost and cycle costs and cycle early sometimes with a "free helper" status.

What ya think?

[concerned]

You don't solve anything with your scenario. All you do is make more work for yourself, and I don't quite understand what your next move is. So let me try to guess, and tell you what happens after John cycles. You are still going to get in trouble either way, because you will either be taking a huge hit to your pocketbook, or you will still have the long lines. Your problem is NOT solved. It is just made worse. Here is what I think would happen.

Option 1
So far you cycled 1 person. Revenue was $75, you cycled 1 person at $50, and your profit was $25. Here is what happened so far.

John Cycles

Jeff waiting to cycle
Chris helper
Buy in here

Now, let's say Bob buys in. Then you have:
Jeff waiting to cycle
Chriss helper
Bob bought in here

What will you do? Do you now cycle Jeff? If you do, this is what happens.

You have $100 in revenue, and you cycled 2 spots for $50 each. Now you have $0 profit.

Then it happens all over again, except you have this.

John Cycles
Jeff Cycles

Chris waiting to cycle
Bob helper
Bill bought in here

Now, you have $125 in revenue, and you cycled 3 spots for $50 each, and you have a profit of -$25.

You will only have a profit if you only cycle 1 person. After you cycle 2 people, you will break even. After that, every time you cycle someone you will be taking a $25 loss for each cycler. If 1000 people cycle on your list, you will lose $25,000. Is that what you want? I didn't think so, so this is the other option.


Option 2

John Cycles

Jeff waiting to cycle
Chriss (no longer helper because he helped John)
Bob buys in here (Jeff's numner 1 helper)
Bill buys in here (Jeff's number 2 helper)

After that, you start to get your long line. You see, you never solved the long line problem.

This is the only way to fix losing $25 for each transaction, and you will always have the long lines. You see, no matter how you try to fix it, the math will not support anything other than scamming people and creating long lines. That is why it is called a ponzi scheme.

[Necrodreamer]

Wow, never realized that. I never was good at math :) Is there NO way at ALL that I can run a very small site with just a few (3-6) lists? There has to be SOME mathematical formula or way to run the thing to where everyone is happy with no scamming?!

[MatrixWatch]

Good conversation here. :)

There are two problems you will run into. The first will be mathematical, and the second will be legal.

Problem #1: Mathematics

You suggest having a site with a few lists in order to avoid the problems that the large sites have with many lists. But, the problem that large sites have is not the amount of their lists, but rather the structure of their matrix system.

For a person to earn their prize, a pre-specified amount of people must join under them. That is the beginning of your troubles, because the same process must be followed through for everyone else underneath. Where will it end? How will the last person cycle?

This is a problem whether you have one list, two lists, or two hundred.

Problem #2: Legal

The laws in most U.S. States say that if you are running a chance based promotional program, then you may not require the purchase of a product for the customers to enter it.

Every get a letter from Publisher's Clearing house where they tell you that you can win millions if you just buy some magazines? Then, on the actual envelope that you send in there is a box that says, "No, I don't want any magazines, but please put my name in the million-dollar giveaway for free".

That little box is there so that they don't get into hot water with the law for running what is call an "Illegal Lottery".

The only way to make a matrix legal would be to allow people to join the matrix lists without purchasing anything. But, the lists would soon be flooded with names and when people cycled the owner would have no money to send the electronics to them.


MatrixWatch.org rests its campaign upon these two indisputable facts:

1. Matrix sites are mathematically destined to fail, and most (if not all) of the customers will be ripped off.

2. Matrix sites are running illegal lotteries which makes the site itself, and the pay companies who aid and facilitate it, vulnerable to lawsuits.

Check out our "Downloads" section and you will see how many large companies have already been sued for running and aiding illegal lotteries.

I hope that you would not consider opening a matrix site. I have not seen a successful one yet, and I have seen quite a few.