Highest Unique Bid Auction Sites

[SuperEasyStuff]

How do you regard sites like:
http://www.voovy.com
http://www.bestofferauction.com

Basically the members pay a fee like $4 to bid, the fee may also include Ebooks they get.

Once they pay the fee, they get to bid on an auction. The highest unique bid, which means the person who bid the highest amount that no one else bid wins the auction. For example, two people could bid $40.00 to have the highest bids, but the person who bid $39.91 wins the auction because they have the highest unique bid.

The reason why the price ends up so low is that the admin may cap the highest possible bid. The admin of the site makes money by the bid fees that the members pay to be able to bid.

Is this site legal?

[concerned]

The legality probably depends on which states they are doing business with. They are running a lottery, because they require a fee to join a contest, and in almost all states, lotterys have to be regulated against fraud. If they are not being regulated, then I would have to guess that most states would consider them illegal. I am sure California would consider them illegal lotterys because they have a CHANCE of winning. That is how the courts saw matrix sites, and these examples are more obvious.

If you really want to know the answer to that question, why don't you ask someone in the attorney general's office in the state where you live or ask a lawyer, instead of asking people in a forum?

[Dreamer]

I personally think its a grand idea! But, it has holes too big. Whats to say that the owner doesn't place a bid himself as the highest unique bid? Even if the highest unique bid was displayed (why not? Or is it?) what checks and balances are there in place to prevent fraud?

Thats why lotto comes in play. You are gambling on the fact that you are the highest unique bid. Thats a gamble I'd take though, because its interesting.

I like the idea of an expensive bid to get the price of the merchandise down. But, is the only way to make that work is highest unique?

I'll tell you what. I like it alot better than a matrix. Because you know the only one person will get the auction and the other people won't be in line for another.

My only objection - How can you be sure you won't be frauded out of your bid?

[SuperEasyStuff]

I'm still wondering whether these sites are legal or not, though.

[Dreamer]

My personal opinion is it becomes a game of chance, because you can not knowingly place a better bid than somebody else as in normal auctions.

Even in reverse auctions, where the auction starts at the high price and goes down, you win based on how quickly you end the auction, compared to other people.

But, these sites just look like a type of raffle.

I think if you want to know the legality, you should consult a business lawyer in your state and ask them. Asking people on a forum, like this, who are biased against internet scams, and things that look like scams, won't get you a good answer.

[Voovy Auctions]

As the owner of Voovy Auctions I know for a fact no member has ever had a bad thing to say about us. We're not out to rip people off or break any laws, we only hope to build a business that people trust and have fun with.

“How can you be sure you won't be frauded out of your bid?”

We created our site with the intentions of growing a business. If “frauding” people out of their bids is part of your business plan I can guarantee you won't be in business very long.

“What is the Bid Fee for?”

The bid fee you pay helps to pay for the products, shipping and handling, advertising, general maintenance and updates to the site, plus hosting costs.

I think before anyone beats up on the “little guys” out there like us, you should stop and think about the major players like eBay. How many times has someone “snipped” an auction from you seconds before it ended? How many products have you bought on eBay and never received? (Good luck trying to recover your losses with eBay.) How many times did you email some seller in hopes of getting more information on an item and never heard a word back? I could keep going… I could also guarantee you these are things that will never happen at Voovy Auctions.

If anyone here wants to know more about Voovy Auctions, I welcome you to email us at support@voovy.com.

John Rasmusson
www.voovy.com

[MatrixWatch]

Thanks for joining us John. It is always nice to hear the perspective of the owners. :)

Feel free to give us some more info on the facts surrounding your genre of business.

[Dreamer]

I have been interested in these auctions. I think they are a good idea. But, can you see my argument? If you require 50 bids to buy something, than all you have to do is look at all the bids from the database and make your own bid at the highest.

Ok, you have no intention on doing that. I dont' doubt you. you are making good money off the sales to risk stealing some merchandise. But, how hard would it be for a hacker to use a packet sniffer to find out the bids himself and than place the highest unique bid?

How exactly does the auction end? If my highest bid is the highest unique bid, how do I know? Do you post what all the bids were from everybody?

Have you thought of doing what eBay does and post the bids? Maybe leave one one of the same number ? Like

Person 1 - $45.9_ - Day 1 hour 1
Person 2 - $45.9_ - Day 1 hour 4
Person 3 - $45.8_ - etc

That way people can see what others are bidding on and make a more educated bid, or at least have some proof that somebody made the bid, etc.

That was my though. Off to sleep I go.

[nicoleeubanks]

I have been interested in these auctions. I think they are a good idea. But, can you see my argument? If you require 50 bids to buy something, than all you have to do is look at all the bids from the database and make your own bid at the highest.

Ok, you have no intention on doing that. I dont' doubt you. you are making good money off the sales to risk stealing some merchandise. But, how hard would it be for a hacker to use a packet sniffer to find out the bids himself and than place the highest unique bid?

How exactly does the auction end? If my highest bid is the highest unique bid, how do I know? Do you post what all the bids were from everybody?

Have you thought of doing what eBay does and post the bids? Maybe leave one one of the same number ? Like

Person 1 - $45.9_ - Day 1 hour 1
Person 2 - $45.9_ - Day 1 hour 4
Person 3 - $45.8_ - etc

That way people can see what others are bidding on and make a more educated bid, or at least have some proof that somebody made the bid, etc.

That was my though. Off to sleep I go.
Both of the sites listed in the first post do post the amounts of the bids. You have to go to the "auction winners" section and by clicking on the auction item# it gives you a more detailed breakdown of the actual bids. But if your argument is that there is a way around everything to scam someone then this wouldn't matter either. You can take pretty much everything and make a way out of it to scam someone. That is the problem with what MW is targeting. They take the bad parts of every site they find like this and automatically it is labeled an internet "scam".

[Dreamer]

I wasn't trying to argue. Just to learn.

The point of pointing out the ways to scam on sites is to show the ease at which it is possible. The easier it is for site owners to scam their clientelle, the more wary people should be of visiting that site.

When you have a site like these cheap auctions, it is very simple to fix the auction. If the auctions can be fixed at will, what criteria should somebody use to participate in that site? My normal criteria is the length of business somebody has been open. 5+ years, they must be doing something right. Shorter times I am leary because they haven't been around long enough to prove themselves yet.

I wasn't saying scam...I think those sites sound interesting.

[nicoleeubanks]

I wasn't trying to argue. Just to learn.

The point of pointing out the ways to scam on sites is to show the ease at which it is possible. The easier it is for site owners to scam their clientelle, the more wary people should be of visiting that site.

When you have a site like these cheap auctions, it is very simple to fix the auction. If the auctions can be fixed at will, what criteria should somebody use to participate in that site? My normal criteria is the length of business somebody has been open. 5+ years, they must be doing something right. Shorter times I am leary because they haven't been around long enough to prove themselves yet.

I wasn't saying scam...I think those sites sound interesting.
Not saying you in particular are... but this thread is in the "other internet scams" section. That was mostly my point. :rolleyes:

[MatrixWatch]

Scams in quotations marks. It is an explorative folder, and if a site is listed in here it only means that we intend to test and examine it.

Your impression of the folder's purpose should definately be considered though. I hadn't thought of it in that context and the responses by both you and the bid-site owner will be taken into consideration.

:)

[Dreamer]

I think everybody here thinks everything is a scam =) Me personally, I tend to think that way because I've come across so many unsavory folks in my life that their whole purpose seemed to get something for nothing. For professional grifters and the like, that is their business. Some people are good at law, some business, some folding up paper into animals, and some scamming people

I think the reason why its in this folder, and why this folder even exists, because a scam is typically not out until its proven its a scam.

Take that nigarean (I can't spell, forgive me) lotto scam. At first I need to send a couple hundred dollars for processing. Than a couple thousand for taxes, than more to transfer, etc. At every step it seems legit. After all, all they want to do is funnel 25million out of their country so what harm will a couple thousand be for the millions they are promissing me?

To you and me, we wouldn't fall for that. I think we are smarter than that. Well, I might not be smarter than that...I'm just too broke to be scammed like that. But the scam is really only known after its too late.

I think thats why matrixwatch is even here. The legaliies of matrix sites questions is just silly. People want this site to prove that matrix sites are illegial. Ok, Bush passed the illegial straight line matrix law into office 2005. A statement like that pretty much shuts people up. You asked for a law, there it is. After that, I'm not sure what direction this site would go if such a law is ever passed.

Likewise, there is no case that part of the judgement flat out said that matrix sites is a completely legal business plan and fine the plaintiff for such a frivillous (I warned you) lawsuit.

It would actually be interesting to have this discussion about these auction sites. I think it being in a "scams" folder is appropriate because its a business model that is very very simple to cheat and to scam.

Anyways, off to sleep I go.

[MatrixWatch]

The main purpose for this folder was to gather information on new get-rich-quick ideas on the net that might end up becoming information auctions on eBay. This way, or auction watchdog team could stay savvy on some newer marketing scams out there. That is the main reason.


Regarding the laws against matrix sites, as this is a common issue.... The laws strongly prohibit and prosecute these sorts of scams and they have well defined classifications for the scams. The law has been very good with determining what consitutes a scammish company, and what does not. What the law cannot keep up with though is the NAMES of the scams. In fact, I remember reading one legal code out there that ended a long list of descriptions with the phrase, "Or whatever name it may go by, as long as it has these characteristics...."

I think that this law was actually cited in the EzExpo lawsuit, but I'm not totally certain.

This is what I have been trying to tell matrix owners about. They say, "Well, it doesn't say 'matrix', and our site is legal until it does", and that is not the point at all.