empowerism.com [Archive]

ycchen

July 21st, 2004, 11:16 AM

Take a look at this 'straight line matrix' site with such a beautful name! I can't wait to see this one close up so I can buy their domain name :D

http://www.empowerism.com/e/87887/about.cfm?CFID=2893706&CFTOKEN=33554568

Merc, add this scam site into your master list.

Guess what, I have a feeling that the Attorney General of Georgia will love to talk to the CEO of this scam. Janet Wilson, CEO
Life, Education And Prosperity, Inc.
dba Empowerism
T: 888-647-1937 F: 443-639-1278

Business Address:
#236
3330 Cobb Parkway, Suite 17
Acworth, GA 30101
United States

The Company

Empowerism, owned by Life, Education And Prosperity, Inc., a corporation formed in Atlanta, Georgia, U.S.A., offers a low-cost subscription to an automated database marketing system and training in NetMarketing (the combination of Internet Marketing and Network Marketing).

Janet's business philosophy is to offer ongoing, high-quality, "affordable to the masses," global success systems and mentoring to everyone intending to start an online business, bring an existing offline business to the Internet, or simply learn Internet marketing and personal success skills.

The Empowerism training and business opportunity are designed to empower people worldwide through knowledge, inspiration, encouragement, motivation, and new perspectives.

weirdid

July 21st, 2004, 11:41 AM

A little more about the site;

wow, i could get rich :D

First - Our Powerful 3x9 Forced Matrix. Very simply, in a 3x9 forced matrix, you can have up to three positions on your front line, and all others are forced down to your second level and beyond. When the people below you sponsor others, they too can only have three on their front line, so all others "spill over" to the next level. You'll earn $1.00 per month on every subscription renewal in your matrix, which has 29,523 available positions. Over time, this really adds up - a full 3x9 matrix pays out $29,523 per month!

weird

ycchen

July 21st, 2004, 11:46 AM

Look, they claimed to be in business for 6 1/2 years, and now introduce a 'straight-line matrix'???

I am pretty sure that AG will love to hear about this 'internet giant' (see below) ...LOL ..:D

http://www.webloot.net/
Double Your Money in DAYS!

The Easiest Money You'll Ever Make

Empowerism - This 6 1/2 year old internet giant has introduced a company-wide straight-line matrix where you double your money every few days.

* No recruiting, no phone calls, no meetings, no huge time commitment
* No big financial outlay, no JOB (Just Over Broke), no debt

You can buy as many positions as you want. They are $25, $50, $100 or $200 and then all you need do is wait for them to cycle through the matrix. You can opt to be paid once (double what you put in) when it cycles, or you can set it to build and pay recurring income of $200 or $400 per cycle. You can also set it to repurchase positions until notified. When you choose this option, you will continue to cycle through the matrix until your income reaches $800. Then the $800 redeposited in the matrix as TWO $400 positions. Now you have TWO $400 positions cycling through the matrix until THEY reach $800, at which time they are split again and become FOUR $400 positions. This continues to double your revenue for as long as you choose. This option is for long-term planners, those who want to see their money growing week after week, month after month.

To see the current matrix, click here, and to read the FAQ click here. When you are looking through the matrix you can use your browser's "find" feature to locate all my positions. My ID is 19014.

Given we are talking about a 6 1/2 year old business, which obviously is here to stay, it is DEFINITELY worth the price of membership to participate in the revenue stream(s) available through this matrix.

ycchen

July 21st, 2004, 08:51 PM

If you check the website whois information, you will find that this 6 1/2 years internet giant actually registered her website 3 1/2 year ago!

The only explanation is that the 'giant's' time is 2 times faster than ordinary human being :D

Any may be, just may be .. straight-line matrix actually works in the giant world! wow :D

Agent|Star

July 23rd, 2004, 09:17 PM

This is very interesting I have seen this site all over the place but not in matrix communities... Its something a little differnt then the typical matrix your all known to fight....

I joined the site but not for the matrix part if you could believe but thats another story lol...

Im curious to see what matrixwatch could do to that site. Cause its really not a popup out of nowhere site. They are real businessmen there (or so i heard)... Keep us updated.

ycchen

July 23rd, 2004, 10:16 PM

BigStarr, it is always good to see you here! Thanks for sharing some of your info. I accidently discovered this 'internet giant', and I belive they introduce 'straight-line matrix' pretty recently? Do you have any info on when?

This company exist BEFORE the matrix age for sure, so I am very curious why a 'successful' business would willing to go that LOW to adapt a scam into their business model? I think their busines must not be doing too well, but this is just pure speculation at this moment.

Please feel free to share some of your insight on this company. I am dying to know more about them :)

Dreamer

July 24th, 2004, 02:10 AM

If you check the website whois information, you will find that this 6 1/2 years internet giant actually registered her website 3 1/2 year ago!

I love whois.com...however, I suppose its possible that 3.5 years ago they changed names or something. That would put them back in 1998 and maybe after 3 years they finally got their own site. I'm not entirely sure. Heck, right now I'm viewing GMs site on tripod...not sure if it was both done by greg, or what this tripod site is all about. Nevermind. The contact info in whois is to a HK address. But, when I click on a stormpay link, it tries to access gm. Interesting.

Ok, I have no clue anymore. Its possible that 3.5 years ago there was a domain name change...but I doubt it.

ycchen

July 24th, 2004, 02:46 AM

Of course, it is possible that empowerism changed name 3 1/2 ago, or open its website 3 1/2 ago.

I just find it odd that a company that only registed its domain name for 3 1/2 year can claim "internet giant" :D

Worst, an 'internet giant" using 'straight line matrix' as their business model?

I thought only gotmatrix can claim that title :D Unfortunately, that internet matrix giant is half dead (or complete dead, who knows what happen), then the only giant left should be 'empowerism' :D

Dreamer

July 24th, 2004, 02:58 AM

I was on BBSs in the early 1990s, and starting going on the net in 1994. Even placing the site opening in 1998, I hardly see them as a giant. Maybe they are really really fat? Maybe all the money they earn they buy twinkees with?

I don't know. I wasn't trying to defend them with my last post. Thats the last thing I want to do. But, at least that lie is not as bad as alot of these other sites lies.

Janet

July 25th, 2004, 01:11 AM

Hi Guys & Gals!

Thanks for the free advertising! :) You all sound like such a fun bunch of people, so I thought I'd let you get to know me a little better.

First off, I apologize for that verbiage on Grant's (webloot) site. That wasn't authorized, and I've asked him to change it. RSVP is a Revenue Sharing pool, where the product is leads - a generous helping of them! The matrix positions are free with your leads purchase.

Second, Dreamer - you definitely have your thinking cap on! You're right - I started this business in January 1998 under the name of LEAP News. The parent company is Life, Education And Prosperity, Inc., and the domain was leapnews.com. However, a few years ago I changed it because we couldn't register a trademark on "leap" in any category because it was taken. You know those really popular Leap Pads for kids? Yep - they've cornered the market on trademarks for "leap"!

Although the name changed, the business remained the same. We've been in the business of training netmarketers since January 1998 - and were the first online business opportunity to offer marketers a renewal income - based, of course, on subscription renewals. I don't know if being the longest running business opportunity on the Internet qualifies us as a "giant" but we're certainly in the top three of the most trusted names out there. We've trained more than 87,000 people in the art of responsible Internet marketing! :)

Dreamer - to express my appreciation for your positive post, if you ever want to become an Empowerism subscriber, I will offer you a complimentary $25 RSVP leads package. Just email me and let me know your Empowerism ID.

As for the comment someone made about "wow I could get rich" - if you look at our Compensation page, you will see that I specifically discourage that kind of thinking. Just click on the "Click Here to view the Matrix Chart" and read the verbiage under the chart.

Regarding RSVP, that was introduced on May 8th, 2004. Since 2003, we have offered leads packages for sale - separate from the monthly allotment that comes with the subscription. So many people were buying extra leads, that I figured there must be a way to share the revenue and give people an incentive to use their advertising budget on our leads instead of going to those leads rip-off sites and buying garbage. If you know anything about Internet marketing, you know that leads scammers have become a dime a dozen in the last two years, and it kills me to see people wasting their money on them.

RSVP has taken off like crazy, and people definitely are making more money than they were before RSVP - partially due to the fact that they now have thousands more leads to advertise to! It's truly a win-win concept - based on a real product offered by a company with a long-standing, impeccable reputation for integrity, on-time commission payments, and product delivery. I have hundreds of people who have been with us for five-plus years - which is virtually unheard-of in the biz-opp world.

When I see people like those on this board who are claiming we're a scam or making fun of something they don't understand or didn't bother to initiate an inquiry to me or my staff about our history or what we offer, it makes me wonder what the motive is. Is it because it's much easier to put people down than build them up? Is it jealousy? Is it knowing that people will jump on a negative bandwagon faster than a positive one just because it seems our nature has become one of pessimism? Is it because putting other people down makes us seem better in our own minds?

Probably a combination of all of that, and more. And that makes me sad. I know that my personal moral code would never allow me to disrespect or bash someone I don't know, especially without doing my homework or talking with them to find out more information. And I certainly wouldn't make threats without having all my facts straight...I'd look pretty foolish!

Just to let you know, Chen, over the past six years, I have been investigated by three Attorneys General - from some of the toughest states - Kansas, Georgia, and Texas. I've come out squeaky clean.... my attorney is a noted MLM attorney, and has made sure that everything I do is in compliance with MLM law. If you would like to talk about this on the phone or by private email conversation, just let me know. I have nothing to hide, my friend.

So there you have it - the other side of the story. I hope you all will remember that there are always at least two sides to every story. Not everyone who is successfully running an online business opportunity is a scammer... and not every matrix plan is a ponzi scheme. Some of us are legitimate business owners who have been in this industry (starting in traditional Network Marketing) for decades. Some of us deeply care about our members and will do everything legal in our power to see those people who have never made a dime online finally experience success. That's what drives me - the success stories from the newbies and my daily personal commitment to helping to create more of them.

Wishing you all the best of success in all that you do!

Kindest regards,

Janet Wilson, Owner
Empowerism.com, Inc.

Dreamer

July 25th, 2004, 02:15 AM

I have a thinking cap? Woohoo! Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to defend you. Sometimes I like to take up a different side to start some dialog.

I tried reading your site. Heck, I tried reading this. I'll leave this garbage up to the better people here. So, I'm going to borrow somebody else's stamp, and give my seal of approval here:

*****
* BS *
*****

Sniff Sniff. Yep, thats sums it up.

Janet

July 25th, 2004, 02:24 AM

Hi Dreamer,

Interesting... I reach out to you and give you a compliment and an offer, and you turn around and slam me? That speaks volumes more about your character than mine. What exactly are you calling B.S.? My definition of B.S. is something that is false or untrue. Are you calling me a liar? Or are you simply all about catchy comebacks and no substance?

Kindest regards,

Janet

Dreamer

July 25th, 2004, 02:28 AM

Dreamer - to express my appreciation for your positive post, if you ever want to become an Empowerism subscriber, I will offer you a complimentary $25 RSVP leads package. Just email me and let me know your Empowerism ID.

I apoligies for the positive post. But, I'm still not going to read the rest of the post...I'm tired, but not that tired.

I would be interested in receiving whatever it is you want to give me. But, before I do, I just have to make sure. When you said internet giant, did that have anything to do with the amount of twinkees you guys eat? If thats the case, I would love to receive free whatevers so I can go ahead and start a new analysis on how badly your screwing over people. I want all the inside information I can get!

Now I'm hungry for twinkes!

Not so kind regards

Shaun, CFA (Chief Fat Arse)
IDreamOneDayTwinkeesWillBeConsideredTheMostHealthy FoodGroup.com

Janet

July 25th, 2004, 03:01 AM

Therein lies the problem, Shaun. When people don't care enough to read and find out the truth (or refuse to consider they might be wrong about someone), and instead sit in judgment of others, they end up looking like lazy fools and talking jibberish about unhealthy snack foods.

I did what I came here to do: offer an insight into Empowerism for those who weren't clear on our history and what we offer.

I wanted to be upfront and kind to people who are not extending me the same courtesy. But, Shaun, I see that honesty and kindness have no effect on your need to put others down for your own amusement - even with comments that have absolutely no factual base. You're just cruel for the sake of entertainment...what a meaningless existence that must be.

Enjoy your misery - it loves company. Certainly not the quality of company I keep. So I bid farewell and leave you to it. I think my posts show who I am... and likewise, so do yours.

Kindest regards,

Janet

Dreamer

July 25th, 2004, 03:38 AM

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH TWINKEES! In fact, down the street, they have them in bonus packs where you get one free.

I wasn't trying to judge you. If I wanted to judge you, I'd take my time with your site and tear it up to shreds. I get bored that way sometime.

Ok, maybe you are a legit MLM. Even the simple argument we had about 3.5 years or 6.5 years doesn't mean anything, because if it was only 3.5 years, that still suggests long enough time that it might not be a complete scam, I'll give you that.

I personally would rather work hard for my money working 9-5, improving my work experience and my education, to make something better of myself, rather than get caught up in these get rich quick schemes (I'm assuming your site is similiar, but I'm not accusing you of anything).

So, kidding aside, I appreciate the offer you sent to me, but I would turn it down, because its just not something I'm interested in. It might be a mistake on my part, but we are all different.

Dreamer

July 25th, 2004, 04:21 AM

Or are you simply all about catchy comebacks and no substance?

Sorry, I didn't see this post before my last two posts. I usually have no substance in what I say or do. I'm not calling you a liar. I don't know you. But, if you want me to say why I said the BS remark...

If you aren't using an automated system to build your business, you are never going to reach your potential.

I'm not sure what you are trying to sell, but as this is the second paragrah when first going to your site, I'll disagree with you.

An automated system typically just reproduces the same thing over and over again. In the business world, if your business is on autopilot, you are in fact just doing the same thing over and over again, not going anywhere, but falling behind those who are taking initiatives.

But, the way I'm thinking about this paragraph, if your automated system is flawed, than you are repeating the same errors over and over again. If your running a customer based business, customers actually like to talk to real customers instead of automated systems, so you are losing people that way.

Empowerism has once again stepped forward as the leader in NetMarketing Success by bringing Massive Turnkey Database Marketing to YOU!

Your the leader. Maybe I'm just completely ignorant, but I've never heard of you. I'm sure there must be alot better names in the business who do it alot better than you. No offense. Maybe you are at the top, I just don't know you

Any site or person or whatever that uses turnkey doesn't sound very professional. Turnkey is just typically one of those words conmen use to unload their crappy business to somebody else. You throw out a word that has negative connections to it, so how can I not assume this is not a good iste? But, you've used it a few times.

It's so simple, one has to wonder why everyone isn't doing it.

Somebody here has their MBA already, right? But, basic business will tell you that anytime something successful is done, it will be copied and copied so everybody is doing it. You just said everyone isn't doing it, so I'm going to guess its not the best (whatever it is)

An affordable business that over-delivers in high-quality services.

What market demographic are you refering to that is affordable? $500 or $500,000? Do you think somebody that wants to buy into a franchise and puts $500k down will think your system is affordable that they need it? If you make a blanket statment like that, I'm only going to assume its all fluff.

Achieve Your Full Potential
Improve Your Business Success
Increase Your Wealth
Literally Transform Your Life!

What is my full potential? How much wealth do I have? How exactly are you going to transform my life? Or is this more fluff?

"The Empowerism automated marketing system
is so powerful, dozens of top marketers have recommended Empowerism to their own
private database!"

Thats impressive! Except the names you've given I've never heard of. It can't be that great if you can't align yourself with trusted names in the industry, can you?

Testimonials everywhere. Now, thats lots of fluff! If this is so great, why not have a page set up just for testimonals? Or, do you need all them everywhere to try to convince me? But, if you need to convince me of something, than its probably not worth it in the first place.

First - Our Powerful 3x9 Forced Matrix.

There are lots of losers on any matrix site, no matter how pretty you make it sound. That doesn't sound Unique AND Exciting!

There is NO LIMIT on how many $6 monthly bonuses you can earn!

Isn't the limit when nobody is no longer supporting the site, so there isn't more sales, or whatever it is your doing? Anytime there is said no limit, it smells of BS to me.

This goes nicely with the slogan we're known for: "Empower Three and It's Free!"

1. I didn't ask (your next sentence, so now your putting words in my mouth). A slogan your known for. Thats a good one. My slogan I'm known for is "My Cats Breath Smells Like Cat Food". I'm not really sure that means anything, so I don't use it.

Bottom line, what is Empowerism about?
First, Empowerism offers a subscription that comes with an automated database marketing system, along with all the education and tools to go beyond the power of automation.

I'm still not sure the bottom lime...subscription (like a news paper) with a database...than your going to give me a diploma and a hammer...boy am I lost! I bet you used that line so frequently it sounds logical to you?

Just $24.95 for your first month, then $19.95 per month thereafter. No hidden fees, no unexpected upgrades.

Wait, I thought I was going to make an income here to replace my full time income...is that how incomes work by giving away money?

If you don't want a turnkey marketing system that builds your business, you can choose to be a Basic Member for a one-time setup fee of $9.95. This 60-day trial comes with a website and access to basic promotion training materials as well as tools to help you promote such as banners, ad copy, and splash pages. Basic members can upgrade to Subscriber for just $19.95, renewed monthly until canceled.<

So, I can buy something for $9.95. But, wait, thats only a 60 day trial...than I get to pay $19.95 a month. So, couldn't you just say no to begin with?

We have corporate voice mail service that is checked every 48 hours

Aren't you a leader in whatever it is you do? I check my answering machine more than once every 48 hours. Oh, but its not a corporate answering machine. I'm giving you $20 a month, and I can't even call you up to say hi? Thats mean!

If you are not satisfied with your subscription, you may receive a full refund by canceling within 72 hours of your initial purchase. Cancellations received after that time cannot be refunded; however, you will receive full access to all the subscriber benefits during that month.

I can subscribe to Twinkees Digest and cancel it like 6 months, or whenever I want to. They stand by their product. 72 hours to cancel...do you really not stand behind your product that you are a leader of?

the first person you should contact is your Sponsor or someone in your upline

Why can't the first person be you. I called Microsoft for help yesterday and they told me to call the guy I bought a slurpee from at 7-11.

No need to wait for your email to be answered. Stop by our Empowerboard Message Board to ask for help from one of our courteous, knowledgeable staff, and have your questions answered pronto!

Thats a relief, cause I was just told you check your messages every few days (because its so hard to check it more often) and if I had any questions I was to ask the slurpee guy. now I'm lost. I shouldnt' have skipped parts of your website.

Ok, let me know if you need more examples, but for now I need some sleep. I'll be sure to hack up more of your page next time, if you like, so I can show you more why it sounds scamish to me.

You are so proud of your testimals, let me use one against you:

Empowerism is The Company that helped me go from a confused Internet Surfer to a fulltime online marketer and become one of the successful 1%.

Only 1% of online marketers are successful. That sounds promissing to you? Mabe I shoudl get involved in your tic-tac-toe matrix...I might have a better chance of getting something there. 1%. So, 99% of us who try to use your site will fail. And your the leader in whatever it is you do!

Next time, accept my twinkees joke. I was trying to be nice there.

ycchen

July 25th, 2004, 05:52 AM

Welcome Janet to our forum, I guess you must have been invited by our friend - bigstarr? :d

You probably did not have time to read our front page. If so, you will know that this is consumer advocate website that warn consumers against 'straight-line matrix' -- an online pyramid scheme that is spread like wild fire since 2001. Now, most of them are either dead or half dead.

It is sad to learn that a 'seemingly' legitmate MLM business like empowerism adapting 'straight-line matrix' as their core business. Straight-line matrix' is a pyramid scheme, whether is a voluntary matrix or forced matrix.

The different is that voluntary matrix will encourage its member to 'reinvest', while 'forced matarix' forced all its member to reinvest. The advantage of 'forced matrix' is that it will continue to have cash flow from new and old members while the normal voluntary matrix will stagnant very fast.

From consumer rights perspective, forced matrix is actually a worse kind of matrix because there won't be any winners except yourself (the owner) at the end of the day.

See, in normal matrix (especially the 2nd generation matrix that we are dealing with nowadays), the early birds can always get the most and leave the pyramid behind. In forced matrix, everyone are required to reinvest, right? If so, the money they earn will have to throw back to the system, and when the pyramid grows bigger and bigger, they chance of getting back will diminish exponentially.

AT the end of the day, the only winner of the whole forced matrix will be the OWNER herself or himself.

You idea is not new at all. Your core business model (straight line matrix) is just another online pyrmid scheme, unless you adpat the 'wrong name' for your legitimate MLM business, which I have serious doubt.

If you think you are the 'leader' of the marketing, then please kindly tell us

1) where you get your idea of 'straight line matrix' from ? Did you invent this concept by yourself? Did you borrow it from management guru Michael Porter?

2) How is your forced matrix over come the problem of anyt pyramid scheme -- crash by its own weight, or run out of the Earth people after tier 13 :D

In anyways, welcome to the forum and best of luck to your 'non-matrix' business ( I assume matrix is just part of your core business).

ycchen

July 25th, 2004, 03:23 PM

Empowerism is a STANDARD pyramid-matrix scheme to its CORE!! They seems to be quite successful in scamming 'non-student based' clients. I posted their FAQ here for the record, just in case they close down or change their FAQ to something else.

My goodness, I think I accidently discover a third kind of matrix-sites. The pioneer: Ezexpo, Gotmatrix ....etc; The 2nd generation: realdealmatrix ..etc, and now the 3rd type -- a MLM turn into pyramid-matrix! Frankly speaking, pyramid scheme is a much OLDER concept than the pyramid-matrix scheme. Many MLM are pyramid scheme in day one. What is NEW is the 'adaptation of the concept of 'straight line matrix' by MLM! Empowerism is just one of the pinoeer in this type of pyramid -matrix scam! I believe more 'conventional MLM' will probably going to adapt 'straight line matrix' if we do not do something about it!

People, we need to pay more attention to this new type of pyramid scam --> MLM-turn-Matrix scam!

http://www.empowerism.com/rsvpfaq.cfmGeneral Guideline questions about Empowerism R.S.V.P. :Who is eligible to participate in the "Double Your Money Leads" program?
All paid Empowerism Subscribers are eligible to participate! If non-Empowerism members would like to buy RSVP leads, they are more than welcome to become an Empowerism Subscriber. <top>

I am a Basic Empowerism member, can I still participate?
You may buy RSVP leads packages, but your matrix position will not cycle until you upgrade to Subscriber. The RSVP program is a BENEFIT of the Empowerism subscription. In addition, the leads are distributed via the iSend.info auto-responder, so you will not be able to receive your leads until you either upgrade to Subscriber or pay $57 for a six-month subscription to iSend.info. Please note that an iSend.info account is NOT the same as an Empowerism subscription, so your best plan is to upgrade to Subscriber and that way you get the iSend account for free. <top>

I want to cancel my subscription and still participate in the RSVP matrix, is that possible?
The RSVP matrix is open ONLY to paid Empowerism subscribers. It is a BENEFIT of your Empowerism subscription. If you buy leads and you are not a paid subscriber when your position is due to cycle, you will remain at the top of the matrix without cycling until you renew your subscription with a "U" next to your ID which means Unpaid.<top>

If I cancel my Empowerism subscription can I withdraw my RSVP commissions from the matrix?
RSVP commissions are paid ONLY to paid Empowerism Subscribers. If you cancel your subscription before your order has cycled, you would forfeit the commissions. We don't expect this to happen, but in case it does, we will set up a pool for any forfeited commissions. From that pool, we will award RSVP entries to randomly selected subscribers who are using the Repurchase Until Notified option.

You must remember that you are buying leads, not commissions! Earning commissions on your RSVP leads orders is a BENEFIT of being a Paid Empowerism Subscriber. <top>

Once I purchase my $24.95 Empowerism training subscription will I see my $19.95 renewal in the RSVP straight-line matrix?
Your $24.95 subscription purchase and $19.95 renewals allow you to participate in the RSVP matrix and your paid subscription comes with 50 leads per month. RSVP Leads orders provide you with EXTRA leads if you choose - over and above the 50 that come with your subscription. The RSVP is a BENEFIT of your paid subscription to Empowerism. As an Empowerism member, regardless of whether or not you have ordered RSVP leads, you are in the Empowerism 3x9 matrix, which pays $1 per level and $6/personally sponsored per month. Please visit your Empowerism Member Center and click on the Member FAQ for more information regarding Empowerism commissions. <top>

Questions about Ordering and Receiving RSVP Leads :

How do I order an RSVP Leads Package?
Simply log into your Empowerism Member Center and look for the "Double Your Money Leads" link on the left side of the page. Select the package you would like to purchase and place your order! <top>

What payment methods do you accept for Leads Packages?
We accept Paypal, StormPay, Moneybookers, eGold, and IntGold. If you would like to pay via credit card, you are more than welcome to do so via Paypal (which has a 2-3 day delay), StormPay (which is immediate), or Moneybookers (also a short delay). <top>

Do you give refunds on RSVP Leads Packages?
No refunds are given once an order has been placed in the RSVP matrix. There are no exceptions to this policy, so please don't ask. If you are someone who makes impulse purchases and asks for refunds later, this may not be for you. <top>

Can I pay for more leads using commissions I have accrued in my Empowerism Commission balance?
Yes! Just use the order form and choose Empowerism Commission Balance as your payment method. You MUST have enough money CURRENTLY in your commission balance to pay for the leads or your order will be rejected. The amount will be deducted the same day you are entered into the matrix.<top>

I have several team members that I would like to buy packages for, is there a possibility that I can pay for them with my StormPay (or other payment methods) account?
If you are referring to "team members" who are already Empowerism subscribers, then yes, absolutely. On the order form, simply type the person's Empowerism ID and their iSend username in the Recipient fields, not yours.

Please note: Whatever Empowerism ID you enter on that form is the person who will receive the commissions.

If you are referring to "team members" who are not Empowerism subscribers, they will need to join Empowerism first. <top>

Why do you recommend that it is better to buy four $50.00 pkgs. than one $200.00 pkg?
Rather than having one order paying out at $200, if you purchase four $50 packages and let them all double you will have four orders paying out at $200...that's much more money in YOUR pocket! And, by having several orders cycling (rather than a single one) you are getting paid more often. <top>

How many RSVP leads packages should I buy?
We want to say VERY CLEARLY that you should NEVER spend more on leads than you can comfortably afford. Do not max out your credit cards or spend money that you need to live on. Do not deplete your savings or put your financial health at risk. EVER! To clarify: Do NOT spend money on leads that you can't afford.

Something you might want to consider is an affordable monthly, bi-monthly, or weekly leads purchase with money that you have budgeted for advertising or online activities. So long as you're thinking long-term, the goal is to get a steady incoming flow of new business from your leads and put you in the matrix at regular intervals. <top>

If I buy leads from inside the iSend.info control panel, are those considered RSVP leads?
No, those are not RSVP leads packages. You can ONLY buy RSVP leads from the link inside the Empowerism Member Center identified as RSVP Leads. <top>

I bought a leads package yesterday, when can I expect to receive my leads?
Please allow 4 weeks for your leads to be deposited into your iSend auto-responder account, and also note that we cannot respond to inquiries about this during that time. Delivery should speed up starting in August. <top>

I bought a leads package but I can't find it on the Matrix View page!
If you have waited six hours and searched the Matrix View page (http://www.empowerism.com/matrixview.cfm) and cannot find your order after searching (Ctrl-F) for your Empowerism ID, please forward your receipt (Paypal, Stormpay, etc.) for the purchase, and include your Name, your Empowerism ID, your iSend username (if you have one), and your choice of Income Option. Inquiries received without this information cannot be addressed. <top>

Are the leads we're receiving Opt In?
Yes, they are opt-in leads, 99.9% U.S., with full info (name, address, city, state, ZIP, email, phone, IP, and date/time stamp), with no AOL, Hotmail, or junk! They are the same type of leads that you receive with your monthly subscription. <top>

Are we receiving more leads each time we cycle?
Your leads will not double each time you cycle. We are in the process of implementing a plan for recycling positions, which will include a combination of leads and other valuable tools and traffic that will all help you increase your income. Expect an announcement about this sometime in July, as we have to first get the rest of the software and advertising in place. <top>

Questions about Your iSend Account :

I want to buy RSVP Leads but I don't have an iSend auto-responder account yet - what should I do?
If you are waiting to receive your activation link and you want to buy leads first, just type in your Empowerism ID as your iSend username so once you DO activate your auto-responder with the username of your choice, we can look you up by Empowerism ID. <top>

I haven't received my iSend activation and it's been more than 48 hours. What should I do?
If it's been more than 48 hours, please send an email to isend@empowerism.com and include your first name, last name, Empowerism ID, and Empowerism password. <top>

I have ordered multiple packages and I used two different usernames. I only have one iSend account, how will I get the leads for the account not signed up for iSend?
We always make sure the name matches the iSend username when assigning leads, so your leads will be deposited. There is no need to email us about this. <top>

I received a notice that you deposited 50 leads into my account, but I ordered three RSVP leads packages. Where are the other 100 leads?
Those 50 leads are probably for your new subscription order or your renewal, as we always try to get those in first. In any event, not all of your leads orders will be deposited at the same time, so please be patient and wait for the rest of them to arrive. <top>

Why can't I login to my iSend account?
The most common problem is that people are going to the wrong URL. The correct login URL is:
http://www.isend.info/empowerism

That URL actually forwards to:
http://www.isend.info/cgi-bin/empowerism/index.pl

If you are having problems logging in, first make sure you are on the right page. Second, make sure you are typing the correct username and password because they are case-sensitive. CAT will not work if your username is cAt.

If you still can't login, make sure that your browser is set to always allow session cookies. In Internet Explorer, go to Tools, Internet Options, Privacy, and Advanced. Also, your Security level should be set to Medium. If you are using a firewall, you may not be able to login until you disable it because it sometimes interferes with session cookies. We are also aware that some Mac users and WebTV users may have problems logging in as well. We're working on a solution for that.

If all that doesn't work, then use the Contact form to send us an email. Include in your email (1) your name, (2) your iSend username, (3) your iSend password, (4) your browser's type and version (like I.E. 6.1), and (5) your computer's operating system (like Windows XP). <top>

Questions about Making Changes :

How do I change my Income Option on my RSVP order?
You may change your Income Option one time per cycle by going to your Member Center and clicking on View/Edit RSVP orders. <top>

Why did my Order number change?
This only happens if we have to insert missing orders in the appropriate place in the matrix, to be fair to the person who placed the order. You haven't lost anything... if their order had been there in the first place, you would be right where you are now after it has been added. <top>

Do you refund RSVP orders?
Once an RSVP order has been placed in the matrix, it cannot be refunded. There are NO exceptions to this policy, so please don't ask. If you are someone who makes impulse purchases and asks for refunds later, this may not be for you. <top>

Questions about Getting Paid & Income-Earning Strategies :

How and when will I receive my commissions due?
Your commissions will be deposited into your Empowerism commission balance after you cycle, assuming your payment option is either one-time payment, recurring = $200 or = $400. Commissions then are paid out by the 15th of the following month via the method you choose inside your Member center through the Edit Profile link. <top>

Why don't my RSVP Commissions show in my Commission Report in my Empowerism Member Center?
By July 23, your RSVP commissions will have their own section in your commission report, just like the FSBs, etc. <top>

Will I receive commissions on new subscribers that I bring into RSVP?
Yes and no. You do not earn direct commissions on downline Members that purchase RSVP leads. Instead, you get to double your money faster when more people order RSVP leads! To learn about the commissions you CAN earn, please click on the Compensation button on your Empowerism website. <top>

When can I collect money when I have the "repurchase option?
Before your position cycles, you would need to change your income option to one of the Recurring Income options or to One-Time Payment. Then you will collect RSVP commissions when your position cycles. That money is then added to your Empowerism Commission balance and paid out the following month by the 15th. <top>

I purchased RSVP leads for $200, how do I get notified when it is doubled?
As of July 16, you will receive a notice when your order has cycled AND when commissions are deposited into your Empowerism Commission Balance. <top>

Do you pay commissions via INTGold?
At this time, we do not have INTGold as a commission option, but that is a planned upgrade that will probably not be ready until sometime in July. Your commission options are currently Paypal, eGold, or Company Check. <top>

My sponsor says I should take my money out and then purchase more RSVP Leads. Is this the best strategy?
Truthfully, that is one of the worst strategies you could choose. Pulling money out at ANY time will only hurt you - ESPECIALLY while the matrix is cycling under 90 days! The time that it sits in your commission balance it's not earning anything and you've lost footing in the matrix, if only for a day. It really would be foolish to pull any money out for any length of time.

Think about it logically - do you earn more than 1600% in commissions per year anywhere? And that's at a 90-day cycle! If not, then why would you take any of it out unless you absolutely positively couldn't live without it? If you want to make the most out of your money, you must resist the temptation to withdraw.

Sit back, promote Empowerism, get your weekly FSBs which is the instant money you may be wanting, and forget about your RSVP position for a few months or even a year. Let it double and split on its own... that's your most lucrative strategy, hands down. Smart money stays in an income-earning position. Impatient money always loses. Always! <top>

All Other Questions :

I bought two leads packages one right after the other and they were listed under each other. When the positions cycled, they ended up with several other orders between them. How did those other orders jump in between my two?
The matrix cycles because people like you are buying leads packages. Let's first look at this as if you bought two leads packages one right after another: Your first purchase may be enough to cycle someone at the top. Their re-insertion into the matrix takes place at that time, then if there is enough to cycle anyone else at the top, the process is repeated. If nobody else can cycle until more "new money" comes in, then your next purchase is inserted, which may be enough to cycle the next person at the top. If, for example, the first five matrix positions are $25/$50 and you buy two $200 leads packages, your first order will cycle all five of those people. Then your second purchase would be inserted.

So, to relate it to the scenario in the question, let's say you are one of those $25/$50 people at the top and you have two positions. Someone buys enough leads to cycle your first position, but not your second position. Your second position will go under the next person to buy enough leads to cycle you. <top>

Are there banners or ad copy for the Empowerism RSVP? What about the Empowerism website?
Yes! There is a RSVP Banners page inside your Empowerism Member Center, look at the Table of Contents, third link under Tools and Reports. Ad copy is on the way.

Your Empowerism websites have been updated with a new image on the left side, linked to the RSVP page. The RSVP URL is http://www.empowerism.com/e/xxxxx/join.cfm so replace the xxxxx with your Empowerism ID. <top>

How can you be so certain that the matrix will stay within a certain cycle range?
First of all, there will always be a demand for leads - always. And there will certainly always be a supply of people wanting to make money. Take, for instance, a 90-day cycle. Buy $100 in leads on January 1 and on April 1 it cycles to $200. On July 1 it becomes $400, and then on September 1 it splits to two $400 orders totaling $800. On January 1 (or December 31), those two orders cycle and split again to FOUR $400 orders, for a total of $1600. In one year, you have taken a $100 leads order and cycled it in to $1600 in RSVP positions, paying out $3200. Do the math - that's a 1600% commission. Do you know ANYBODY, online or offline, who would turn that down?

Think what will happen when large organizations get involved: churches, charities, clubs, retirees, college kids looking at a pile of student loans... the list is virtually endless. It includes ANYONE who has $25 or more to spare long enough to watch it double for a year or more.

What we're trying to get you to do here is think LONG TERM because that's what we're doing. If you can't do that, then there's nothing we can do about that. Can we predict the future with 100% accuracy? No, that's impossible! But, we have ample experience in this business, added to the longest-running pristine reputation of ANY other online business opportunity, to know that there will never be a shortage of people who will come to know Empowerism as a safe and lucrative place to be.

Do you want to know how you can help prevent the cycling from slowing down? It's simple - stop withdrawing money unless you absolutely positively need it. Some of you are just not paying attention and you're shooting yourselves in the foot financially. The first of the month you're letting positions cycle at Recurring Income of $200 or $400 and that money is SITTING stagnant until the 15th of the following month! Had you left it in the matrix, it would have cycled 3 to 5 times, giving you an additional 400% to 1600%. Not very smart, indeed.

In addition, those of you who are buying leads packages and not cycling 100% back in at least twice when it gets to the payout level, but instead taking out half or all at each cycle are not contributing to the overall growth of the matrix - you're helping to slow it down. Those are just the facts, no matter how you slice it.

Again, long-term thinking. If you have concerns about the matrix slowing down, then do yourself and everyone else a financial favor stop withdrawing money at every cycle.

We applaud every single one of you who is wise and patient enough to understand what "Repurchase Until Notified" really means for your future and the future of RSVP. As many of you as possible will be rewarded once we get a prize pool in place. <top>

What makes your strategy around RSVP different than the others that have not succeeded when it comes to a cycling matrix?
Our strategy is modeled after the only other program that has been doing this for two years and has paid out several million dollars. Currently at a 90-day cycle or less, people are still swarming to it in droves because they recognize a good thing when they see it.

What makes US different is that we have a truly consumable product - leads - that when purchased over and over add to the growth of your business. We can never be accused of being a pyramid scheme or not offering a consumable product that would be valuable even if there were no compensation involved.

Another thing that sets us apart is our long-standing excellent reputation and substantial subscriber base. When you start out with an already successful program, motivated members, and a history that is incomparable to any other, you have an edge that nobody else can match.

The reason others don't succeed is because they lack one or more of the above elements. And in some cases, the owners were dishonest and decided it was time to cash in. In other cases, they were not financially stable to begin with, or they lacked the experience and knowledge it takes to run a successful program, so it just imploded. <top>

Is the RSVP bucket of money reinvested in between cycles to provide an additional income stream to the matrix? eg: are you investing in other online/offline opportunities to further boost the new money that's being added to the matrix?
At this time, there is no need to further invest any of the monies coming in from RSVP leads purchases. Orders are increasing by at least 10% per day as our members get out the word. We would never put this money at risk by handing it over to someone who could do damage. The money is safely sitting in a Federally Insured U.S. bank account, separate from our primary business account, where it cannot be touched by anyone. <top>

How much of the RSVP purchase that we make goes into the cycling matrix? 100%? 90%?
That percentage changes daily. 100% goes in, and we keep a certain percentage of cycling orders to keep the company stable and pay the ongoing expenses. <top>

Is your website secure?
Yes. The entire website and database servers are behind very secure firewalls. The website itself is protected by an SSL certificate issued by GeoTrust. <top>

Dreamer

July 26th, 2004, 03:26 AM

Hi Janet,

I hope I didn't piss you off to make you run away. I'm sure most people here would rather hear your side of the story and have a more positive debate. Maybe, just maybe, you might be able to convince a few people here. I'd imagine alot of people here are turned off from online type businesses because they have been scammed out of matrix sites, but maybe your site is something that they can feel excited about. After all, even if we place your business as 3.5yrs old, you couldn't have survived that long solely on scamming people.

You said something in one of your posts I'd like to respond to, but I'm too lazy to check it out.

Why do I think your a scam? Because after reading parts of your site, I still don't know what your selling. The tools and education? If I go to bestbuy, I know exactly what the software is all about before I buy it. Heck, i can't think of a legitimate product that is sold to the consumer before the consumer knows all about it.

I did what I came here to do: offer an insight into Empowerism for those who weren't clear on our history and what we offer.

I must be ignorant, but I still have no insight into your business and am still totally clueless what you have to offer. Maybe I'm just ignorant, but isn't that your typical clientelle? Ignorant people? I'm not trying to put down your customers, however, I think the more people know about MLMs and similiar types of businesses the more they stay away from them.

RSVP has taken off like crazy, and people definitely are making more money than they were before RSVP

What percentage of people are making more money than before, and on average how much more are they making? That really isn't saying anything. A few people make more money than they spend on matrix sites. I'm interested to know how many people lost money with your service.

making fun of something they don't understand or didn't bother to initiate an inquiry to me or my staff

Do you want Gregs email address? Make an inquiry with him about why his site is legal, etc. Does that make it so? Nah.

[quote]
I have been investigated by three Attorneys General - from some of the toughest states - Kansas, Georgia, and Texas. I've come out squeaky clean....
[quote]

Go to any matrix sites and one of their FAQs will ask if the site is legal. They usually say since they are selling a product (a worthless eBook), its legal. So, if I pay $500 for an eBook from a protitute, does that make it legal? Why do sites say that? Because you know 99% of people reading that you have been investigated will never ask you for their email address. Why would anybody ask you for your atorney's email address? So, 1% asks for that information. Pull a greg and say you have outgoing mail problems. Not your fault. Than, go on record saying everybody was responded to, so they are all lying.

If I'm going to contact your attorney, you should make his information available on your website. I want to know what office he works at, so I know how good of an atorney he is, where he got his degree, and I want to talk to him when you don't know I'm calling, so he doesn't know me and can be honest.

WatchDog doesn't know me, but I bet he would give me that information in a heart beat. Than, i can research his lawyer to find out how good he is. But, this site also has what happened in the lawsuits. You said 3 times? Why not post that on your website to show everybody?

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not calling you a liar. I'm just pointing out my problems I have. Thats what you wanted, no?

Most people get scammed when it comes to MLMs. Sure, some are very successful at it, but only at the expense of the masses. Maybe your legit, I'm not going to argue that. I just don't like it when people throw away their money for some crazy hope of making money.

Agent|Star

July 26th, 2004, 11:17 PM

Hey ycchen,

No I didnt contact Janet infact i didnt know it was a female behind the site... To be quiet honest, I find Empower to be so confusing! I joined it under another person just to gain access to a private area. I guess you could say clever on that persons part instead of me paying $25 he had me join this EMPOWER thing...

I really dont care for the site cause it is so confusing lol... I do know that I did get LEADS. $25 got me a mailing list of FIFTY people (aka LEADS). So bascially I get to spam 50 people for a very limited time LOL thats how I looked at it... I dont find the LEADS to be serious because no one ever reads emails from strangers.

Well thats all I know about that...
Which isnt much.... ycchen, are you the new admin here?
:D Just jokin watchdog

ycchen

July 27th, 2004, 01:30 AM

Thanks for sharing, Bigstarr.

I am not sure how big this scam is. The 'lived' ranking list is very confusing. I can't tell how many people are actually paying or cycled.

One thing I am 1000% sure. It is a NO DOUBT a pyramid-matrix scam!

The other thing I am 80% sure. That is the Attorney General of Georgia will be interested in investigating scam if a couple of people file complaints against it!

MatrixWatch

August 16th, 2004, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by Janet

...When I see people like those on this board who are claiming we're a scam or making fun of something they don't understand or didn't bother to initiate an inquiry to me or my staff about our history or what we offer, it makes me wonder what the motive is....

Janet Wilson, Owner
Empowerism.com, Inc.

I think that this could be a profitable dialogue, and so I do hope that Janet returns to answer some questions.

Her comment, "...it makes me wonder what the motive is..." is actually an argument fallacy. Attacking someone's argument on account of what is thought to be their good or bad motives disregards the facts of the argument. Let's keep it focused.

Now, it would be nice if our members were always polite, professional, and proper. But they have the right to speak their minds on this forum. However, I do realize that fooling around in the midst of these discussions DOES end up cutting communication and the thread quickly comes to an end. All apologies for what some might consider an unprofessional approach to dialogue from some. To each his own..:) The mods will do their best to keep discussions on topic.

I think that the main issue is whether or not the matrix that empowerism runs is the same one that we refer to on our "What is a Matrix?" page. If it is, then whether or not an established company runs it or not is irrelevant. It would be nice if someone could point me to the page where the matrix program is detailed at length.

Looking forward to more dialogue on this subject.

numbersman

November 10th, 2004, 11:08 PM

If empowerism is a straight line matrix scam and paypal is against straight line matrix scams then why does paypal support empowerism?

ycchen

November 11th, 2004, 01:36 AM

Hi numbersman, if you go to the first page of this thread, I have a whole quote on "straight line matrix" copied directly from Empowerism. Below is just part of it.

Empowerism - This 6 1/2 year old internet giant has introduced a company-wide straight-line matrix where you double your money every few days.

Pyramid scheme is about selling of hope in the future. Everyone knows that it will crash sooner or later. Empowerism will crash eventually because it generate absolutely ZERO profit other than grabbing money from their members directly.

At any given time (from now until forever), there will be 80% or more people stuck in the matrix, and if you join know, you chance of getting anything will be a few years EVEN if empowerism continue to suck in money (which is impressive, I have to admin if it is true).

Since we have warned you about the nature of this scheme, if you still think that it is a good business, go ahead. Just keep us updated when you cycled. Matrixwatch will stay longer than empowerism, so let us know if you ever cycle. Good luck.

Thanks for reminding us that empowerism use paypal. Some of our members might like to verify with paypal about this :)

numbersman

November 11th, 2004, 09:48 PM

I never claimed to have joined Empowerism's straight line matrix. I am not a member and want to keep it that way.

ycchen

November 13th, 2004, 04:54 AM

I know you are not yet a member. You seems to be interested in empowerism, so I thought I gave you my 2 cents before you join :)

empowerism reminds me of gotmatrix, except that it is a "forced matrix" -- more like the doubler in which you need to reinvest part of 25-70% of your cycled money.

If there is empowerism customer out there, we invite you to join our forum and share your views -- pro or anti are all welcome :)

We all know the success of pyramid-gotmatrix scheme -- pay cycled members on time. Empowerism seems to be able to commit to payment so far. The question is question is "how long"?

Anthony Palmer

December 4th, 2004, 02:04 AM

MatrixWatch

December 4th, 2004, 03:54 AM

We the members know you and know you will always do the right
thing.

For what the rest that will be left out have to say who cares not us.

I don't know that much about empowerism, as you can see from my post above. I have observed in the last year, however, that MLM schemes can be very cultic. The customers and dedicated volunteers swear unwavering allegience to the leader, and they never question their judgment on anything. This is dangerous, because history has shown that these pyramid/MLM schemes always come crashing down.

Some people try to help those trapped in the scheme before it is too late, but those still involved with the scam take an 'us-them' mentality. When the MLM scheme is taken to court, it is often the case that members and supporters of the schems will be picketing and chanting outside the courtroom in support of the "business".

So, I don't underestimate how attached people can get to these schemes, and I respect the wholehearted devotion that these people have.

I don't think that this tolerance should lead to an acceptance of what these MLM leaders are doing. In many cases they are making all of the money anyway, and they will do whatever it takes to keep the profit margins rolling in. They will even instruct their members to sell the idea to their relatives and closest friends. But when the whole scheme collapses, those members are ashamed and embarrassed that they brought their loved ones into such a horrible experience. The owner does nothing to mend the damage caused by their greed.

We are here to keep people out of these things, and to show them at least through the past and present that they are a horrible thing to put your money into. If people still want to do it, then fine, that is their choice. But I cannot even count how many emailes I've received from people wishing that they had just kept that money and put it toward something more substantial, or saved it in the bank.

We are often attacked for this approach, but if you observe closely you'll see that the attacks come from the owners of these schemes or those early investors who stand to gain benefits from future signups. Those peopel can't stand what we do because we stand in the way of them scamming others.

Now, as I said, I don't know what empowerism is all about. I do trust the judgement of our analysts though, and from what you said it appears that the social factor is there as well.

ycchen

December 4th, 2004, 05:28 AM

This is not a scam its a real business. Thank you Janet for definding
us in such a positive way.

We the members know you and know you will always do the right
thing.

For what the rest that will be left out have to say who cares not us.

Kindest regards,

Anthony Palmer, Rep ID: 90296
Empowerism Welcome to matrixwatch, Anthony!

Empowerism is a real business based on "straight line matrix"? Go to page 1 or 2 for the quote directly from your website.

I know your "company" used to sell "leads" -- telephone numbers of people who might be harassed by multiple MLM recruiters for endless time.

Now, your "real business" is based on "stragith line matrix". If you know our site, you will probably understand that we are created against ALL the "straight line matrix" scam! They are pyramid scheme, and unfortunately, your "business model" is based on this scam.

Ask any ex-supporters on this forum, they will tell you that Emporism is running a "straight line matrix" = SCAM. Period.

I might not be 100% sure if PIPS is a ponzi/pyramid scheme or not (only 80% sure :D), but I am 100% confident that empowerism is a 100% pyramid scam. :)

With all the competitors (leads, MLM guides + YMMSS + PIPS + doublers) out there, I know empowerism is slowing down drastically even if you are using "forced matrix" -- force customers to pay monthly to get the cash-flow going.

My advice to you is to close down and refund everyone, otherwise, I am sure if empowerism goes down, your customers will bring you to court faster than you can imagine.

ycchen

December 4th, 2004, 05:50 AM

I know many empowerism "customers" are still waiting for their investment to cycle, and their wait is becoming longer and longer. The beauty of the "forced matrix" is that you are trapped after you have paid 6 or more times.

Then, your fate depends on this pyramid scam, and you will have difficult scrutinize it in public. I know many unhappy customers keep their mouth shut because they are still in denial and false hope. They refused to admit that they are investing in a pyramid scheme, and not monthly subscription and will probably never cycle.

For early birds, it make sense to keep quiet or even defense the this pyramid scam, but for those who invest recently and never cycle once, it make little sense to "wait" for your chance to cycle because you will NOT cycle before this pyramid structure crash by its own weight, like any pyramids do. Your monthly donations are used to pay the early birds and the owners, so you are just a pure donors.

When empowerism customers are ready to take action against the scam, we will be here for you! :)

Save all your proofs of transactions, you will need them when you file reports to authority, police department or talk to media reporters (our new approach).

ycchen

December 4th, 2004, 11:34 PM

An insider view of how empowerism pyramid/ponzi scheme works.

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=3314&st=30&p=66734&#entry66734
You are all so optimistic..wishing you the best.
I have joined in early Augoust and have placed several orders at that time,up to now i have not cycled even once or any of my positions and at that time it looked promising with 30 days to cycle.
I cut my losses..i dont believe it will work for long haul..well it does by paying monthly fees and buying more positions and even then no return yet,so i have decide to cut it loose.even with the mvp promo the rsvp moved only by 90 potions today..i might cycle once before my monthly fee is due but i am in loss big time even with cycling once.
There is no time limit and it takes ages..the last month thee were barely any cycles daily and it went up to 113 days! from 30 when i joined and keep growing..
i dont recommend anyone joining if not in by now..SORRY, there are better opportunities out there.thats my view after being in for 3 and a half months without seeing penny back yet.

Yes but seeing how the rvsp works and te fact that to cashout you need to recycle several times keeps me away..Sorry i lost faith in this one.

I do wish you all the best..and hopefully i am mistaken..but i have spent enough to have valid reason to be disappointed and try and prevent newbies of joining thinking they will see any $$ in near future when this is not the case.

I have no trouble investing for long haul..i do appreciate the effort janet wilson is doing to keep it moving but my exprience with them was bad and figures can't lie.

i joined when it was on 30 days to cycle 3 months after it launched..looked promising then..

110 days passed since then and cycle time is up to 113 from 30..

Does this look good to you?
I know that without new spends it won't move and i cut the brunch i sit on by posting that,but i think who ever is in can try and save their money..

I will NOT recommend it to any newbies unless they are willing to kiss their money goodbye for a long haul.

I dont dispute their credibility as to payments,unfortunately my personal experience is not as yours as i have joined apparently 2 month after you had and that made significant diference in the total outcome in regards to rsvp.
mvp is new..but combined with rsvp..therefore i d strongly suggest potential prospects to research well before they do final decision.
Y ou would have never made the 17k with the current terms there,i have several positions from early Augoust,none cycled yet and on top of it the monthly membership fees add to the cost and even if i cycle once finally these fees had eatne the profit by now per this particular cycle.

I dont want to harm Empowerism..i am part of it too but i would advise newbies to think twice.my personal experience is disappointment with this progra,sorry.

I wont post anymore,,after all i dont want to ruin the party to potential prospect with poitive approach..

All i say...is check carefully prior to joining.

Best wishes and good luck.

numbersman

December 6th, 2004, 04:08 AM

JanetW

December 7th, 2004, 07:58 PM

This is the second and final post I will make on this forum. I don’t make it a habit to spend time on people who claim to be open-minded but sing the same tune over and over again, even when they have been shown that their tune is wrong. You are doing a disservice to those who would look to you for valid information, and therefore your reputation has deteriorated. Had you shown that you understand the difference between a legitimate company and a scam, the majority of your advice might be considered credible. But, basically, what you do is MLM bashing, and nobody likes a whiner.

The primary business of Empowerism is selling subscriptions to people who are interested in marketing a business online. We have been doing this since 1998, serving more than 95,000 people. Those subscriptions include training, marketing tools, and leads. There is a legal compensation plan attached to the selling of those subscriptions.

We do not require a purchase of the product in exchange for the ability to earn commissions. We do not over-price our services. We do not allow people to have multiple subscriptions. Our services are of reasonable value to attract those people who are not necessarily interested in our comp plan, but are there for what they get in return for their money. We report to the IRS all income earned (over $600) by members. In case you care about legalities, we pass all tests of comp plan and corporate legality.

RSVP, which started May 8, 2004, is an offering of Empowerism; it is not the main event. Through RSVP, Empowerism offers leads packages to people interested in buying additional leads to further promote their businesses. These leads are priced at fair market value. When someone buys an RSVP leads package, they are getting exactly what they paid for – leads. It is NOT an investment (ycchen); it is NOT misrepresented; it is NOT a scam. It is the sale and delivery of leads. Period.

As a side benefit, or perk, to that purchase, each order is placed in a comp plan that will eventually pay out a maximum of $2,000 based on company revenue. We make no claims as to how long that will take, and we make it crystal clear that nobody should buy more leads than they can comfortably spend from their online advertising budget.

There is no part of RSVP that any clear-thinking, reasonable individual would call a scam. We are selling a product and, as a bonus, offering compensation based on a share of company revenues. Period. We have paid out 10 times more money than most people, including me, will ever hope to make in a lifetime. The company keeps 0% of RSVP revenue – it is all paid out to members. Our corporate expenses are paid from the sale of Empowerism training subscriptions.

MVP was launched on December 3. When a person buys an advertising package from us, they receive a mailing to 20,000 to 40,000 people who are interested in an online business. They make a purchase and they receive the service. Period. As a side benefit, their order is placed into a comp plan that will eventually pay them a maximum of 2.5 times the amount of their order. We make no claims as to how long that will take, and we make it crystal clear that nobody should spend more on ads than their online advertising budget can comfortably afford. As with RSVP, the company keeps 0% of MVP revenue – it is all paid out to members.

I completely agree that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of “doublers” (and more created every day) that are pure scams. These people ought to be shot, or at least arrested. They have no product. They provide no service. They can’t even get a Paypal account, much less a Merchant account. They only take money via Egold (untraceable and irreversible) and sometimes Stormpay and/or IntGold. They make false claims, they offer no contact information other than a Yahoo address, they rarely pay out more than a few hundred dollars, and then they disappear. They are criminals. The scammers who create these are typically known to put out several in a row, one right after another. As soon as one matrix stalls, usually within a month, they close that website, open another, and up goes a new doubler. They know people will fall for it! If your interest truly is to protect your readers from harm, these are the people and websites you need to warn them about.

Those of you who would even think of putting Empowerism in the same category as these scams are uneducated, vindictive, and dangerously single (and simple) minded. If you can’t tell the difference between a legitimate company offering and delivering a product or service with a bonus compensation plan, and a scam that doesn’t even bother to stick around for more than 30 days or give anything in return for the funds they are collecting, then you have no business judging others or especially giving advice on this subject.

I don’t expect those who make it rule to bash MLM companies to all of a sudden understand that Empowerism is a legal, safe, and exceptionally run company whose owner cares only about serving her members and creating ways for everyone to learn and prosper financially. But I do expect you to act with responsibility and integrity on a public message board where you have the opportunity to influence people who would look to you for legitimate guidance. And I do recommend that you be careful about the legality of your own comments about Empowerism and about other companies who may fail to appreciate libelous statements should they occur.

I will not be back to debate this. I have laid out the facts here; they are unchanging no matter how you decide to distort them, and I have no doubt you will. I do think websites like this can be a very valuable service, in fact I have benefited from sites like this when I was trying to find out if a certain website was legit.

It’s disconcerting, however, that you are choosing to bash every single company you don’t understand or don’t want to be part of for whatever reason, while there are those of us who have done every little thing to operate legally, ethically, and with utmost concern for our members, and don’t deserve your smug judgment or predictions of failure. Why would you want a company to fail when it has a pristine reputation, has been paying on-time commissions for seven years, and delivers everything it has ever promised? Isn't that the ultimate in entrepreneurial cynicism - when someone is doing everything right and you STILL wish them failure?

The truth is that you have lost your ability to be objective on a very serious subject, and that’s when you do more harm than good to the people YOU are attempting to serve.

Happy holidays and great future success to you all,

Janet Wilson, President
Empowerism.com, Inc.

numbersman

December 7th, 2004, 10:48 PM

Those of you who would even think of putting Empowerism in the same category as these scams are uneducated, vindictive, and dangerously single (and simple) minded. If you can’t tell the difference between a legitimate company offering and delivering a product or service with a bonus compensation plan, and a scam that doesn’t even bother to stick around for more than 30 days or give anything in return for the funds they are collecting, then you have no business judging others or especially giving advice on this subject.

I find this comment offensive. What's wrong with being suspicious of Empowerism? What makes somebody uneducated for thinking Empowerism is in the same category as money doubling scams? You've admitted that there are hundreds of scams out there and you say that Empowerism is different. I think it is obvious that Empowerism looks suspiciously similar and that it is normal for intelligent educated people to question what makes Empowerism different. If you have a good defense then give it.

I think it is an acceptable expectation for businesses who aim to provide products and services that are similar to illegal products and services to explain their actions without acusing people of being simple minded and uneducated. People always question when they don't understand things fully. What makes them so single and simple minded for expressing their concerns about your company? What I see is an angry CEO who doesn't have the patience to answer criticisms without making rude accusations of people being uneducated and simple minded.

Why would you want a company to fail when it has a pristine reputation, has been paying on-time commissions for seven years, and delivers everything it has ever promised?

The truth is that in the context of your RSVP credits you can't rest on your 7 year history to say that you are OK. Everything that happenned before May, a lot of people aren't interested in. In April, I thought you had a great company with great potential but soon after I concluded that you got greedy by adding RSVP credits and destroyed that potential. What I'd like to know is information on what sort of legal tests your company has stood against since May. What do you see happenning in the long term with your credits? My calculations on money doubling cycles is that running by a typical company growth of 12% per year the cycles settle at around 8 - 12 years. What expectations for your company are the long-term cycles going to take?

I'm not sure if what Empowerism does is illegal or not but I believe that I have a right to question it. I also believe that the CEO of a company as big as Empowerism should display the manners to defend their company without being rude.

MatrixWatch

December 8th, 2004, 12:01 AM

MatrixWatch

December 8th, 2004, 04:24 AM

also...

I completely agree that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of “doublers” (and more created every day) that are pure scams.
....

If your interest truly is to protect your readers from harm, these are the people and websites you need to warn them about.

Good point. And we do, here (http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=42).

We also make briefly talk about the doublers, HYIPs, randomizers, etc. in the center block on our home page. We think that it is important for consumers to know that not only are these scams a huge problem, but they are also what the matrix sites have evolved into over the past year.

It seems that scammers really never stop what they are doing and do something different. Instead, they change form and continue with it, always repeating the same process over and over again. Plato mentioned people like this in his Republic. They don't listen to reason anymore, and they are totally ruled by their self-serving passions... It is rather sad and disturbing.

It is for this reason that I personally like to set certain goals when it comes to fighting scam. I know that we can't really rid the internet of all scam, but I can decide that there is a particular objective I'd like to complete, and then be happy when it is reached.

For me, it was the matrix site that ripped me off last year, EzExpo. In the process of getting them shut down some other matrix victims decided that they wanted to join in. After a little while, there were many people fighting alongside me and MatrixWatch.org became the force that drove most of the matrix sites out of the U.S. Now, some of the members here are starting to take on these recent variations of the schemes. It is really going to be an exciting year!

donalinda

December 15th, 2004, 11:00 AM

ycchen, Chief Matrix Analyst Senior Member (816 posts); watchdog, Chief Administrator Senior Member (2091 posts); Dreamer, Registered User Senior Member (396 posts); Agent Star, Guilty! Senior Member (324 posts); weirdid, Super Moderator Senior Member (289 posts).......................................Let me guess?

In order to be a Senior Member, you have to be so narrow-minded on the subject that you are unable to be objective under ANY circumstances, hence, you only read or understand the second part of the following quote:

"Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare". - Japanese Proverb

and, if you don't understand what you have read or are "to lazy to check it out" (quote from Dreamer, Registered User Senior Member (396 posts), then you poke fun or make false accusations, hoping that the reading public or another "senior member" will pick up the ball and run with it.

If your objective is truely service to the internet user, maybe you need to read and apply the following quote to your everyday activities on this site.

"One of the best ways to persuade others is with your ears - by listening to them." -Dean Rusk, US Public Official and Educator

I came here seeking information on an entirely different program, however, since I can readily see what your agenda is, I will look elsewhere. Thanks and good luck-----I am sure that you will have a great time poking fun at this post.........

concerned

December 15th, 2004, 04:54 PM

I came here seeking information on an entirely different program, however, since I can readily see what your agenda is, I will look elsewhere. Thanks and good luck-----I am sure that you will have a great time poking fun at this post.........

Just to let you know, if you plan on reading this post, if you came here looking for information about a program, it is most likely a scam. We don't need any other information about the specific program. If you are looking here, instead of the Wall Street Journal, Reuters, Yahoo Finance, then you will just find yet another huge scam site. Good luck with your search.

ycchen

December 16th, 2004, 12:05 AM

Empowerism "might be" a genuine Network Marketing Leads Company BEFORE they introduce "straight line matrix"!! I use "might be" because they are seldom included in the top fresh leads companies. One example of the Leads company review can be found here: http://networkmarketingleads.net/

With "straight-line matrix" as major incentive, you do not really need to care if you are selling a useless leads, almost free ebooks or overpriced signal booster. Buying a spot in the "straight-line matrix" is THE primary incentive that takes over all the other "junks" that you are selling. That's the magic of using "straight-line matrix" -- i.e. to cover-up the bad quality products or useless products that one is selling.

If empowerism is a serious LEADS company, they should just drop the "straight line matrix" and compete directly with other serious LEADS companies, right?

In sum, ANY company that apply "straight line matrix" in their "genuine product" line is runnning a scam. Period. It is very sad that empowerism is turning from a genuine leads selling company to a pyramid-matrix scam, and thus join the matrix/doubler scam.

Janet, why don't you go over the moneymakergroup.com and ask your customers to stop promoting your "genuine business" among all the doublers :D I don't think you dare to do that because your MAIN profit is tied to your DOUBLER-MATRIX scam.

ycchen

December 18th, 2004, 09:33 PM

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=3314&st=75&p=79581&#entry79581
RSVP slowed down is actually because of a time where all the doublers keep popping up.
some got scammed and were skeptical on doublers.
Empowerism is certainly one of the most trusted doubler online.
Janet, a lot of your diehard supporters have mislabeled your REAL business as DOUBLER! Why don't you go and correct their misconception? It is bad for your reputation as a CEO of a serious MLM business, isn't it?

RSVP is obviously stagnant because the "waiting list" is too long. MVP, a second matrix-doubler line that open on December 3 WAS doing pretty well because it WAS new, and the list is begining to stagnant.

Let me guess, when are you opening your 3rd line of "product" based on straight-line matrix? In fact, I am not speaking for myself, I am speaking for ALL your diehard supporters who are waiting for your to open a 3rd doubler line so they can race to the top and cycle multiple time in 5 minutes.

ycchen

December 18th, 2004, 11:01 PM

Janet reminds me of Karen from movemeup.com. movemeup is completely stagnant for a long while. I wonder why there is no complaint from her customers? Not yet? The only complaint I recalled was from Greg Day who cycled at movemeup.com but was not paid. However, movemeup.com is MUCH smaller compare to empowerism, which suppose to be many times larger than gotmatrix!

It would be nice if someone do a statistical report on empowerism, the most "trusted doubler online" :D

sisco50

December 19th, 2004, 10:58 AM

Hey yychen,

I think you are talking to yourself as Janet clearly stated she would not be coming back here. Would be hard for her to answer your posts if she is not going to be here to read them. But I suppose you already know that. :)

ycchen

December 19th, 2004, 12:28 PM

I am talking to myself? Not really. I know Janet will read the posts even though she will not reply to them. I am sure she can't deny the fact that she is running a pyramid-doubler, exactly as what her die-hard supporters stated at moneymakergroup.

The real question is: What's next after MVP stagnant? Close down and run like gotmatrix? Or open yet another MVVP, or RSMVP, or RVPMVPMVIPSRP?

Here is my prediction. I bet she HAS to open a new pyramid-doubler line sometime in January or latest Feburary 2005 after the current MVP come to complete stagnant, like all doubler's line do.

sisco50

December 19th, 2004, 01:16 PM

yychen

I need a crystal ball like yours. Where can I buy one? :)

ycchen

December 20th, 2004, 01:48 PM

sisco50, you do not need a crystal ball, you just need to know the logic of a pyramid/ponzi scheme, and I am sure you know that pretty well :) Empowerism, together with probably a couple of other "long term doublers" (according to Jason, or ASFx at moneymakergroup.com... lol), is the most trusted doubler on the market :D

Managing a good doubler scam is an art because open a new line will kill the old one. So, Janet needs to find a perfect timing for her new line. The perfect timing often comes when the old line stagnant, and it is not difficult to predict when MVP will stagnant, isn't it? If RSVP takes 4 months to stagnant, then MVP will probably take 2 months, and the 3rd line will probably survive for 1 month, and the 4th line will die in 1 week.....

Anyone still remember realdealmatrix? It was a super star (second generation matrix) and now it is history. By adapting 'straight-line matrix", Empowerism will fall like all the super star matrix-doubler that we have seen over and over again in the pyramid/ponzi world.

We shall see...:)

ycchen

December 29th, 2004, 11:02 AM

Janet, how do you respond to your customer's complaint below?

BTW, when are you going to open your new "product" line since both RSVP and MVP are basically two dead lines.

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=3314&st=75
TRUE..I ended up with a loss there,joining RSVP when cycle time was 30 days and ended cycling first time after 4 months,plus the monthly fees i ended up with a loss and cut it..dumped other small position i bought later on.

The monthly fees eat most fo the profit there and it takes ages so not attractive at all.

The MVP probably will get to same mode..same as RSVP was hot before i joined and dropped badly later.

Then what??

300% line?400% line?

I prefer YMMSS at least no monthly fees being taken there ,so as long as it takes to cycle will be pure profit.

ycchen

December 30th, 2004, 11:03 PM

I just found an old press release of empowerism (see below). It is an annocement of new doubler line --M.V.P. and also a promotion of RSVP.

By giving away token of cash reward ($5000 for first price), Janet is day-dreaming that she can enslave her member to recruit newbies to boost her pyramid/ponzi scheme to life again. :D Listen, if you join RSVP (and probably MVP too) now, you are a pure donor and will never cycle and double your investment (or subscription or purchase, or whatever).

This member promotion will end in Feb 27, 2005, so empowerism members should expect a possible new line in March 2005, which is close to my prediction.

If you are a smart empowerism member and a true beliver of doubler, do nothing and wait for the new line to open in March or latest April. Stay up late and press the buy icon faster than anyone else to rush to the top of the new doubler list. Then, you can sit back and relax and watch your money doubling every other day. That's how doubler works and I believe most Janet's customers know that very well, except Janet herself. :D

This promotion information can also found on empowerism website: http://www.empowerism.com/e/92243/contest.cfm?CFID=11941242&CFTOKEN=50478922

http://ca.prweb.com/releases/Dec%20/0/prweb186511.htm
Empowerism Launches Empower & Strive 2005 - Cash Blast to 100,000 Contest to Celebrate 7-Year-Anniversary, with 17 Big Cash Awards and High-Tech Prizes, Including $10,000 Grand Prize

Empowerism's launch of Empower & Strive 2005 – Cash Blast to 100,000 contest celebrates 7 successful years of business. Empowerism will offer 17 cash awards and high-tech prizes (Grand Prize: $10,000), launch a new Marketing Value Plan, and boost the array of member marketing tools - adding increasing value to its NetMarketing solution.

Atlanta, GA (PRWEB) December 8, 2004 -- Life, Education And Prosperity, Inc., provider of Empowerism, a low-cost automated database marketing system and NetMarketing solution, announced today the start of the Empower & Strive 2005 – Cash Blast to 100,000! contest, commemorating seven years of member prosperity and success. The company will award one grand prize of $10,000, along with five additional big cash awards and a slew of electronic prizes and gift cards.

Empower & Strive 2005 - Cash Blast to 100,000! is designed to inspire championship performance among the Empowerism member base, with the goal of reaching ID #100,000, which will automatically be assigned by the online system.

"2005 is going to be a milestone year for our members, as we roll out new ways to increase their revenue. We decided to start the year off with a bang by awarding our loyal members with cash and valuable prizes that will benefit their businesses and enrich their personal lives, while bringing on board as many new members as possible to share in the prosperity," says Janet Wilson, CEO of Life, Education And Prosperity, Inc. "Not only will we be giving away a whole lot of cash and some really great electronic prizes, but we’re going to roll out an array of new marketing tools and opportunities to help our members build successful businesses.”"

Empowerism members will compete for sales and sponsorship volumes, with the chance to win a grand prize of $10,000. Cash prizes will also be awarded to 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th place winners in the amounts of $5,000, $4,000, $3,000, $2,000, and $1,000, respectively. Other prizes include a Dell(TM) Inspiron Notebook, Oakley Thump(TM) 256 mb Digital Music Eyewear with Polarized Lenses, a Dell(TM) Dimension Desktop, a Dell(TM) Flat Panel Color LCD Monitor, and a Kodak EasyShare(TM) 5 Mp Digital Camera & Printer Dock. The member that achieves the highest sales of R.S.V.P. leads will win a $500 Visa gift card, as well as the member that achieves the highest sales of M.V.P. ad packages. The sponsor of the member who is assigned ID #100,000 will win a $250 Visa gift card, with the member that is assigned ID #100000 winning a one-year free Empowerism subscription, a $200 R.S.V.P. leads package, and a $200 M.V.P. ad package.

There is a case study component of the contest where members can submit briefs that describe their creative tactics to increasing sponsorship and sales, wherein two case study winners will each receive a $200 eBay(TM) gift certificate.

The new M.V.P. or Marketing Value Plan will be announced and described the first week of December 2004 on the Empowerism Website, with a full array of new marketing tools added to the Empowerism Member Center, such as audio files, banners, splash pages, white papers, articles, flyer, tri-fold, postcard, e-postcards, letterhead template, business card template, and other marketing collateral in the coming weeks – in order to equip members with the resources they need to increase sponsorships and generate sales.

Empower & Strive 2005 – Cash Blast to 100,000! will run from December 1, 2004 through midnight on February 27, 2005, Empowerism’s seven-year anniversary date. Winners will be selected by the company on or about March 10, 2005. All prize winners will be notified by e-mail sent to the e-mail address provided in the member’s Profile on March 10, 2005. Minimum requirements apply. The Official Contest Rules can be found in the Empowerism Member Center. You must be an Empowerism member to participate.

Empowerism stands apart from other network marketing companies through its seven-year history of consistently high payouts to its member base and its unblemished record of timely disbursements. By continually adding value to an already proven business-building system, Empowerism is bolstering its reputation as having the longest running Internet-based NetMarketing program in existence that is a truly legitimate renewal income generating system and financial freedom solution.

About Life, Education And Prosperity, Inc. (L.E.A.P., Inc.)
Founded in 1997, Life, Education And Prosperity, Inc. is a privately held company located near Atlanta, Georgia. Life, Education And Prosperity, Inc. provides communication, marketing, and outreach solutions to entrepreneurs, business owners, and marketers. Empowerism.com is a service offering of Life, Education And Prosperity, Inc. For more information, visit the Empowerism Website at www.empowerism.com or email Empowerism at e-mail protected from spam bots.

ycchen

December 31st, 2004, 12:21 AM

Excurse my obsession with empowerism, just like my previous obsession with gotmatrix :D My logic is simple, target the biggest scammer and it 'might' discourage smaller scammers to participate. Empowerism is probably one of the very first MLM style company adapting "straight-line matrix", or "doubler" to be more precise. So, I still think the Attorney General of Georgia should be informed about this "internet giant." :D

ycchen

December 31st, 2004, 12:22 AM

I found a good link on some "history" of empowerism by a supporter. Take a look.

http://www.moolahoops.com/moolahoops/882_Updates_Empowerism.htm

Dreamer

December 31st, 2004, 08:13 AM

Im going to have to read that one day. I've grown bored of my two previous obsessions, imatrix and gotmatrix. I'm glad ashu did the honorible thing, and well...the end.

I like this though:

Empowerism remains my favourite program! With three separate income streams now (matrix, RSVP & MVP)

How can anybody consider any of them income streams? I mean, i consider my income what I get paid for going to work and getting a check for the hours I do. A matrix is an income stream? Maybe I MIGHT call it an investment payoff or something...but an income???

ycchen

December 31st, 2004, 10:16 AM

Did you notice that this Moolahoop supporter actually "downgrade" empowerism from "my top-ranked program" before August 28, 2004, to "remains my favourite program" after Oct 1, 2004. :D

ycchen

December 31st, 2004, 10:17 AM

Guess what, Moolahoop, or Fred, is actually a early bird in the Empowerism ponzi/pyramid scheme. To learn more about how this ponzi/pyramid scam works, go to:
http://moolahoops.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12

ycchen

December 31st, 2004, 10:26 AM

ycchen

January 2nd, 2005, 12:23 AM

Janet Wilson makes a big mistake in the following quote. (see bottom) She ask her members to show their support on RSVP line by making purchase regularly. However, only members doing the purchase is NOT enough. To keep the cycling time constant (90 days or 120 days), the number of purchase should increase exponentially. That means NEWBIES have to join in every week in an exponential speed. See below for a model of how exponential signup looks like in order to FIX a cycling time. In short, strong member support is NOT enough, that's the reason why empowerism will RIP, and pretty soon. :)

http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53

If you are interested, you can read my debate with Damion (ezexpo's ex-owner) here a year ago.
ADD: http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?t=935&page=3&pp=10

Thumbs Up and Thumbs Down

Thumbs Up to those of you who have stepped up to the plate and decided that RSVP is going to work for you! You are doing an Awesome Job! Believe me, I know who’s working hard to build a business, who’s making consistent RSVP purchases, and who’s supporting their downline. As you will read below, I am rewarding those who are doing what it takes to be successful.

Thumbs Up to everyone who is pitching in and giving some GREAT advertising and marketing advice on the EmpowerBoard! You all have really helped turn this message board into a place where your fellow members can come to learn and share ideas and experiences.

Thumbs Down to members who have not actively participated in growing your business or RSVP in the last several weeks. It’s hard to believe that many of you still think after all this time that Empowerism and/or RSVP is a temporary thing or an income that’s going to expand without your participation. Empowerism enables you to earn as much or as little as you would like… We are here to stay and are committed… The only question is: How much do YOU want to earn?

If you’re putting your time and resources somewhere else online that you hope is going to be paying you for many years to come, you could be making a big mistake. Empowerism has proven itself to be more solid, long-lasting, trustworthy, and lucrative than any other renewal income opportunity on the Internet. 75-80% of all income is paid out in commissions, the highest percentage you’ll find anywhere. The industry standard is 40-65%. That means you can put out the same effort somewhere else and walk away with half the income!

We get several emails a month from former members who left for “greener pastures” and then came back because they realized there were no greener pastures. Most of them express regret that they lost all that time and money on failed programs and expectations of an unrealistic, hyped-up income that never came to fruition.

Empowerism is The Rock of the NetMarketing world. You have a big stake in the success of RSVP – it’s time to get out there and do your part!

numbersman

April 8th, 2005, 03:54 AM

concerned

April 8th, 2005, 12:17 PM

ycchen

April 8th, 2005, 11:12 PM

Ycchen, looks like Empowerism has paid out close to 1.5 million dollars (http://www.empowerism.com/mvpmatrix.cfm) in MVP doubler line credits since they started in December. If you had invested money back in December you could have had some of it.

No regrets?

Yes, I regret very much that empowerism was not closed down before it scams so much money. I am still waiting for the Attorney General to investigate the scheme. :D May be empowerism scam is not big enough to get attention. :)

FYI, I am not interested in participating in ponzi/pyramid scheme that gain on other expences. I don't think I can sleep well at night knowing that 80-95% of the customers will lost everything at the end of the day (i.e. lists die, scheme collapse ..etc) because their money were used to pay myself, other early birds and the owner(s). Look at RSVP, why don't you count how many people lost their money on RSVP? :shake:

Trust me, many of us here on matrixwatch know exactly how to speculate on these ponzi/pyramid scheme to make an easy personal gain. I can even give you advice on which less risky ponzi/pyramid schemes to invest to make a return in a short time. So, if we were for the unethical money, then we won't be here, we should be over there at MMG. Got it? :) Don't make me wrong, I am not against making money through ethical business practices. I (and many on this forum) am simply against ponzi/pyramid schemes because they are ........... unethical scams. :)

tcb1969a

April 9th, 2005, 10:09 AM

ok....what is Empowerism.com.......i have looked at the site and i have no idea what they are selling or providing.....

numbersman

April 10th, 2005, 10:34 PM

ok....what is Empowerism.com.......i have looked at the site and i have no idea what they are selling or providing.....

They sell advertising leads, advertising to members and also internet education. Those who join pay $19.95 a month for membership for information on running a business on the internet. They have the option of buying leads for sending emails to and also the option of selling advertising to members.

In May last year they decided to copy groups like YMMSS and CAN who were pioneering the concept of money doublers. At that time they had a 6-7 year history of making money on the internet and had survived the dot-com crash and had also survived legal groups following them up. However by adding doubler products to their range of products may be the last straw to destroy their long-term survival. In December last year they added the MVP advertising (advertising to members) to try and deal with the issue of growing cycle times. At the same time key people from the warrior forum decided to help promote Empowerism and so that helped them grow in popularity and credibility.

I believe that most (if not all) companys that offer money doubling product come to a crashing end. (similar to Enron) They have theoretically paid over $10.5 million dollars and so you can guess that when Empowerism crashes there will be loss of at least two thirds of that and there will be some very unhappy people.

Personally, I know that I could have made thousands of dollars from Empowerism but I don't believe in stealing money from the gullible people who don't understand what's wrong with doublers.

ycchen

May 15th, 2005, 03:54 PM

From Janet's April newsletter. Hmm... I am amazed how honest she is in describing how matrix-based empowerism works --> No new purchase, no payment.

(3) If you are not purchasing advertising on a regular basis, then you can expect the cycle time to increase. It’s not up to a handful of other people to keep the cycle time steady. In other words, you can’t expect others to do for you what you will not do for yourself.

(4) The ONLY reason cycle time ever steadily increases is a decrease in orders. There is absolutely no way 100 orders can cycle in one day with only 50 coming in. No smoke and mirrors here – incoming orders are the driving force that controls the cycle.

69mike

May 19th, 2005, 06:12 AM

ok, i'll be honest....

i'm in empowerism and i know it's slow, but i have always been paid on time.
Janet works to make all the parts of Empowerism to continue to grow.

She's been honest with me and hasn't jumped ship like other Owners.

I can't ask for more than that.

I can name some people who have taken moneys and run with it.

A man named Carl comes to mind.....

Janet from Empowerism is sincerely working hard for all members in Empowerism.
You can read all my other posts and you know i don't take sides too often, I have Janets back.

In a year... I'll post again..... and tell ya how hard Janet is still working to keep all members happy.

She's that type of woman.

69mike.

nesf1981

June 1st, 2005, 02:54 PM

Firstly, hello all, i at present am the newest member of this forum :applause:

it's nice to meet you. I came here from google seeking feedback about Empowerism, as i am currently a member, and after reading an article written by one of the US's leading experts on network marketing, Leonard W. Clements, who is frequently called upon to testify in court due to his level of expertise, I must admit, i do now have concerns. (If anyone wants to reference the full article, http://www.marketwaveinc.com/articles/Pyramid.asp

I'm a 23yr old science grad, and as such, i'm going to try and be very objective about both all of your views and Janets and add the facts of my situation, after all, as an outsider i can see both sides. (In case anyone was wondering, i currently have no downline members in Emp, so i only have to worry about my liability here and i wont be promoting it any more until i've heard Janet's take on all of this when i ask her privately.)

I hope we all understand that the whole point of making unfair pyramid schemes (where only some get rich and others get screwed when it collapses or if they're at the bottom) illegal is to ensure the preservation of professional regulated financial services, such as share market trading, that put everyone on a level playing field if they have the money to invest in the playing field in the first place.

-Clements (1999) defined a pyramid scheme as one where money is exchanged but no product is exchanged and said that the roots of most pyramid/MLM law is founded on the Amway vs. FTC decision in 1979, and under that, an MLM is NOT a pyramid scheme if the very last person to ever join can take the product they've paid for and legally resell it for a profit, as you can with Amway.
Clements (1999) also draws attention to ignorance (not knowing or understanding) to the law not being an excuse for continued participation in pyramid schemes and many people, who do and don't understand the law offer a product or service to their new members, so as goods are being exchanged, to avoid falling under the pyramid scheme category. Clements (1999) suggests that it SHOULD be a product and that product should be of such value that you would buy it straight out, even if you weren't going to get paid for selling it.

-Now, clearly Janet and Empowerism, pass the legitimate product test in terms of the law. I've read her her marketing course and think her 'automated business system' offered to buyers/members is good quality.

-But my main concern now, clearly, in terms of ONLY participating in the compensation plan offered by Empowerism, i (or you) can NOT take any of Janet's products and legally resell them because they are copyright protected and there's nothing that i (or u) can rebrand and sell for my/yourself OR, it would violate many laws to sell peoples contact info without their permission, Thus if i/you was/were the last person ever to join Empowerism, i'm/you're screwed because i/you have no way to make any money at all, (let alone equal to earnings of those at the top of the matrix.)

Thus quite right that we should ask, if the companies current plan is now considered legal, if one leading expert would not consider it to be?

i think Janet clearly has the right motives and cares deeply about doing the right thing and adhering to the law, but as it now stands, now that i have this new understanding of MLM law, i can no longer say I'M sure it's legal and i would NEVER feel right referring people to it if it isn't. And , as Clements (1999) suggested, ignorance is no excuse for me, you or Janet for breaking the law. Participating in a pyramid scheme (or any illegal biz) is still a crime even if Mother Theresa did it.

BUT i'm going to ask her privately what legal advise she has received to state that she's adhering to the law, that question didn't get answered and we all have a right to the answer...(But i'm not going to ask her in an environment where she can get ganged up on by a group...thats not fair to anyone.)

-But in terms of PONZI's, using Clements(1999) as judging criteria, he defines a PONZI as any program where the payment process can only continue and is only funded by new business flooding in, because profits of the new people, are used to fund the return on investment promised to the initial investor.
Janet clearly stated that the company had an excess profit from lead sales, and worked out a sustainable plan to pay that out to Emp members, hence NOT a PONZI

OR a company is a PONZI, if the company promises 110% to the investor, say $1.10, but the company has only made enough income to cover 100%, say $1, hence the company needs to make another $1 sale to cover the payment owed to the investor. Here we have a slight grey area, because, ok yes RSVP quite clearly could be unsustainable if everone stopped buying and Empowerism alone has to fork out existing profits/funds to pay all the existing participants when they do finally cycle. But this is an unpredictable risk comparible to the punt you take on buying shares in a company on the share market. So as i see it, not enough evidence to say Emp is a PONZI.

BUT, and this is a fact i want to share with all of you,

-I bought my first RSVP $25 package in April; somewhere in the RSVP member area it says something about one cycle taking around 3 months. It has now been two months, and my place in the RSVP matrix (if you measure my progress in terms of Firefox browsers scroll bar) hasn't even moved 1/100th of the way through one cycle of the matrix after two months. So you're right, it would take over a year just to cycle once at this speed, and at this rate, i could be over 40 when my $25 finally becomes $2000. :head: Thus it would be safer to just put that $25 in a bank, where unlike Empowerism, there's legligable risk of me ever losing it, and let it earn comparable interest.

So i too am evidence that RSVP is not as promising as it first sounded. (Haven't tried MVP, so no comment)

-I've been having a REAL hard time promoting and creating continued interest in Empowerism, but i don't have any problems getting referrals to other legit programs. One could question if this has something to do with the marketing public realising, as many of you have, the potential pyramid scheme classfication of Empowerism and thus avoiding it like the plague? I could be wrong, but knowing what i now know, it could be a possible explanation couldn't it?

In summary, i think both sides here have valid points, but i'll make my final decision on Emp once i've talked to Janet and/or sought legal counsel. But thank you for this great forum...finally i found where the Emp feedback was hiding!

I'm glad though that there was some moderation coz things were getting a bit out of control for a few moments! Everyone should live their life how they chose to, but it is the decent thing to do to listen to the other parties argument and express to them that you understand and hear what they're saying BUT and then maturely state YOUR side of the argument. (If you're too worked up by what they've said to reply, walk away til you can say it calmly, coz how you'd say it in 2 days time is generally more realistic.) Take on board what they say, then re-form your viewpoint after you've decided if it does or doesn't make a difference. Just a friendly piece of communication advice that may help some of you communicate better in difficult situations in future, from someone now studying a counselling diploma and methods of effective communication. Whether you take it or leave it is your choice ;)

OK, I'M FINALLY DONE WITH THIS HUGE POST!!!!!

Thank you ALL so much for reading. Much appreciated. I'll be back soon to read your responses.
:D

concerned

June 2nd, 2005, 09:35 PM

Thanks for the artice. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but I bet it is interesting and I can't wait to get the time to look at it. Sorry to hear you got sucked into one of these schemes. Hope you find the information you are looking for here.

Welcome to MatrixWatch.

ycchen

June 3rd, 2005, 12:02 AM

nesf1981, I guess you have done your homework, and I agree with most of your analysis.

I have to agree with you that empowerism is not the usual doubler or straigh-line matrix. It used to be just a MLM company, until it introduce "straight-line matrix" as a "compensation" plan for its force matrix, RSVP and MVP product lines since April 2004. Since then, their sales has been rocketing everytime a new product line was introduced until it stagnant -- the same result you will anticipate in any matrix-based business/compensation model. RSVP was hot in the summer 2004 and stagnant in November. MVP was hot in December 2004 and early 2005, now it stagnant. What next? Another matrix-based product line?

It is very obvious that the customers are NOT buying because of the real value of the products (e.g. leads. BTW, no body talks about the quality of empowerism leads), but mostly focus on the matrix-based compensation. The matrix-style compensation is the main drive of the sales of empowerism products since the RSVP!

It is easy to verify if the above arguement . Just ask Janet to do a survey by asking all her customers to answer the following question.

What is your incentive of buying RSVP or MVP?
1) the value of the product itself
2) the promised compensation
3) both

I don't think Janet has enough confident to do this kind of customer's survey because she know the result will be embarassingly similar to all the pyramid/ponzi scheme out there.

One last point to share with you. When we first critizing Janet of introducing "straight-line matrix" to her seemingly legitimate MLM business, she responsed very quickly. But I don't see her going over to moneymakergroup.com or other get-rich-quick scheme to defense herself! Why didn't she defense her business as not a doubler or matrix?

Just my 2 cents.

By the way, we would love to hear back from you after you talke to Janet. :)

ycchen

June 3rd, 2005, 12:11 AM

Like all the matrix-based (or ponzi/pramid-based) business, Janet has retroactively reword her business to "hide" the trace of the unjust compensation scheme. (Front row seats get everything, Note: Janet used the "front row seats" herself, not me! :D)

Here is an old description of RSVP.
Here's how it works:

First - Become an Empowerism Subscriber. Your subscription comes with your own feature-rich auto-responder, 50 leads each month, and loads of other benefits!

Second - Order ANY leads package, starting at just $25. Your leads will be deposited right into your auto-responder and your earning power starts immediately!

Third - Watch your income GROW - literally! Whatever amount you spend on leads is deposited right into the straight-line matrix, where it doubles over and over again. Every single person who orders leads after you is placed under YOU! You can watch each day as you move up the matrix and double your money in record time!

Fourth - How do you want to be paid? Your choice! You can leave your money in and watch it grow or you can collect half of your earnings and use the rest to double your money again!

There is NO LIMIT on how many leads packages you can order to enter into the matrix!

What makes the Empowerism R.S.V.P. different from ANY other matrix of this kind?

A consumable product - LEADS! Everyone in this business needs leads and an auto-responder to send email to those leads. Empowerism delivers the entire package!

Here is a new one. "Straight-line matrix" and "double" magically dissappear! :DHere's how it works:

First - Become an Empowerism Subscriber. Your subscription comes with your own feature-rich auto-responder, 50 leads each month, and loads of other benefits!

Second - Order ANY RSVP leads package, starting at just $25. Your leads will be deposited right into your auto-responder and your earning power starts immediately!

Third - Watch your income GROW - literally! Each leads purchase you make is worth $2,000.00 in revenue sharing to you over time, in addition to the income you'll earn as you build your Empowerism business. You will be able to watch your income steadily grow over the coming months and years!

Fourth - How do you want to be paid? Your choice! You can withdraw $200.00 at a time over the long term or $400.00 at a time over a shorter term. Either way, over time, you walk away with $2,000.00 AND your leads!

There is NO LIMIT on how many leads packages you can order!

What makes the Empowerism R.S.V.P. different from ANY other promotion of this kind?

A consumable product - LEADS! Everyone in this business needs leads AND an auto-responder to send email to those leads. Empowerism delivers the entire package!

Rick

September 16th, 2005, 10:41 AM

Hi everyone--just signed up and glad to be aboard. Empowerism has no sellable product. The only reason to be involved is to make money. The only way to do this is to sucker others into joining ones's downline. This alone clearly makes Empowerism a Pyramid Scheme. The fact that many so called "gurus" are involved only detracts from their credibility. Any comments?

surfer

September 16th, 2005, 11:40 AM

Any comments?
Nope, you summed it up pretty well. :D

mercinary

September 16th, 2005, 11:59 AM

Yup! You nailed it on the head. This has been Matrixwatch's opinion since the day we encountered empowerism!

-Merc

Kim_Inmans_Butt

October 2nd, 2005, 03:05 PM

ycchen

October 2nd, 2005, 10:57 PM

Here's a little hint for all those stuck in Empowerism who don't have a big downline (or any downline), but have a lot of money tied up in RSVP / MVP.

If you don't pay your monthly subscriptions, you get downgraded to an unpaid subscriber. If you remain an unpaid subscriber for over 90 days, you get removed from the program. You only actually have to pay every 90 days (rather than every 30) to keep your membership from being removed, whilst you wait forever to cycle. It's pointless to keep renewing your membership every month for no benefit.

Of course it's an arguable point whether you will ever cycle. Me, I cut my losses on this one and stopped paying, so I am due to be deactivated soon and will lose over $2000 in RSVP positions.

Thanks for sharing, Kim_Inmans_Butt. I am sorry for your lost. $2000 is a lot of money! :eek: If I may ask, how much did you invest in RSVP and MVP respectively?

I was a bit surprised that Janet (CEO of empowerism) did not start another new ponzi line after MVP pyramid-ponzi line stagnant in a few months. I guess partly because of the complaint of RSVP customers arguing that MVP takes away money from the RSVP. In fact, MVP people also complain because 25% of MVP "profit" goes back to feed the dead RSVP! No body is happy except those who took Janet's own advice to take the front-row seat in the MVP line! :shake:

We are very familiar with the controversial of using a new ponzi (MVP) to feed the old dying one (RSVP). It never works! Remember, IT4US ponzi was set up by Mac to feed the scandulous ponzi -- cashtrade. It never works.

If Janet open a third ponzi line to feed both MVP and RSVP, it might triggle a revolt that might just bring down empowerism. That's probably the reason why we don't see the third ponzi line. Without the third ponzi line, empowerism is basically a dead ponzi, so I don't advice anyone to pay the expensive subscription.

I have been urging empowerism customers to file complaint to the attorney general of Georgia for more than 1 year. Why? Because empowerism is a U.S. based ponzi, so the chance of getting the AG to act is high as long as we have sufficient complaints (let say 20-30 complaints).

Kim_Inmans_Butt

October 3rd, 2005, 05:43 PM

Sorry, I didn't make my post completely clear. I did manage to cycle all my RSVP positions once for money back before it ground to a halt.

But I lost around $200 in MVP and around $200 in monthly fees.

Of course I will still lose all of my positions now that I've quit, but I will take the loss.

I doubt that Janet will open another Ponzi line, but she appears clueless as to how to halt the rising cycle times. One thing I've noticed is that now that the cyclers are dead, the "downlines" seem to be rolling slowly back up - i.e. very few new recruits, and people dropping out of the MLM geneaology all over the place.

Lanieri

December 22nd, 2005, 08:06 AM

Hello

I been a paying member of empowerism. for 1½ year. now I am only a free member. The RSVP matrix never doubled the money I bought leads with. The leads I bought had no value in the empowerism marketing system. I lost 300 dollars. The subscription fee 20$/m was also a cost.

I sent a fax to Janet Wilson requesting an explanation, she never replied.

Lars Nielsen

surfer

December 22nd, 2005, 08:37 PM

Welcome to Matrix Watch Lanieri.

Sorry you were scammed.

Most likely it would take legal action
to get answers.

yishunn28

January 5th, 2006, 01:23 AM

I join empowerism for a few months but earn nothing n still have to pay advertising fees every month.

ycchen

January 5th, 2006, 03:39 AM

yishunn28, welcome to MatrixWatch and thanks for sharing.

empowerism is a dead ponzi for more than 1 year. Anyone who join know is pure donor, unfortunately. There is no way you can get a penny out of RSVP or MVP. The only way you can possibly get something out of the empowerism matrix/ponzi scam is file complaint to the AG of Georgia or a classlawsuit.

JimiHawK

January 10th, 2006, 02:25 AM

a person i know is caught up in empowerism at the moment.

he has just joined and is hypnotised by empowerism. He believes them and thinks that this will actually work.

he just joined a few days ago but he did not pay, someone else payed him in.

however, he is trying to push me into it as well. i have told him many many times i do not want to do it however he still trys.

currently empowerism or OPFM or whatever is doing a mega matrix flip or something. aparently itll "make you wealthy forever"

what im wandering is that will this actually work? should i stop fighting it and join or is it just a waste of time and energy.

thanks

weirdid

January 10th, 2006, 05:57 AM

Jimihawk
Put your money in a bank account, even the 1% interest is a better return than you will get with empowerism.

-weird

JimiHawK

January 10th, 2006, 06:38 AM

but its not my money :S

hes getting his friend to "buy" me in

concerned

January 10th, 2006, 01:44 PM

a person i know is caught up in empowerism at the moment.

he has just joined and is hypnotised by empowerism.

Good wording here. These money making schemes are really brainwashing people, and it seems that this person has fallen into the classic trap.

He believes them and thinks that this will actually work.

he just joined a few days ago but he did not pay, someone else payed him in.

however, he is trying to push me into it as well. i have told him many many times i do not want to do it however he still trys.

My advise is to stick to your guns. Don't join. Unfortunately, he will most likely get more angry with you, because if you don't join, and get others to join as well, he won't profit. That is just the nature of the game.

currently empowerism or OPFM or whatever is doing a mega matrix flip or something. aparently itll "make you wealthy forever"

Why don't you step back and think about this for a second? Do you really think it is this easy to become wealthy? If that is the case, then why are there homeless people? Why isn't every person in the world living in a mansion? The answer is simple. Because getting wealthy is not ever that easy. That statement right there should tell you to run the other way.

what im wandering is that will this actually work? should i stop fighting it and join or is it just a waste of time and energy.

Please define the word work? That is a common thing I see being asked. The answer isn't all that easy. The problem is that people always say that these systems do work. The thing they fail to mention is that they don't tell you what they are designed to do. So my answer (similar to what you will hear from the owners) is that this system WILL work the way it was designed.
What the owners fail to tell you, is that it was designed to scam you.

concerned

January 10th, 2006, 01:45 PM

but its not my money :S

hes getting his friend to "buy" me in

Doesn't this strike you as odd? Why would someone just want to give you free money? Think about it. After they lure you in, they want you to spend more of your own money after getting you brainwashed. Be very careful.

whoodulum

February 4th, 2006, 02:04 AM

I lost my MONEY with EMPOWERISM and they are scam artist

Take his advise!!!

gombal21

November 4th, 2006, 10:05 PM

This is not a scam its a real business. Thank you Janet for definding
us in such a positive way.

We the members know you and know you will always do the right
thing.

For what the rest that will be left out have to say who cares not us.

Kindest regards,

Anthony Palmer, Rep ID: 90296
Empowerism

Hi,

Since www.Clicks2You.com scam me, now I like to visit many forum tell anybody about what they did to me.

Then I remembered empowerism.com

Here is my experienced with them.

I joined empowerism because the big guy, stone evan recommended them.

Ok, I totally brand new on internet business. So, I joined with them at May or June, 2006.

I interested with their program, RSVP, DOUBLE YOUR MONEY in 3 month or LESS.

Guess what?

I got nothing!

Then I asked them about that program. They gave me an answered, nicely, that their never give a promised like that. And they asked me to show which banner showed that ads.

So, I tried to find that banner. But it already gone. They removed that banner.

And the funny thing is, all my leads (50 leads) their provide never responded even they sent email marketing course (regulerly?).

I don't know with somebody else. But their system not for me. Even I promoted their system in my web site and over 300 prospects i sent to them. Nobody sign up.

I cancel my account last month. Because I don't want give them US$19,95 for nothing....

The bottom line is...

Never ever buy or join with any system or any book because "the BIG guy" recommend it.

Find the truth about them first. Use your common sense. And you will save your money...

Empowerism (was) ID: 199878

the middle road

November 6th, 2006, 02:18 AM

I'm sorry this is completely off topic, but dreamer should be put up for attempted murder. After seeing that little animation next to his name, I nearly died laughing.

Casandra

November 8th, 2006, 09:04 AM

I lost my MONEY with EMPOWERISM and they are scam artist

Take his advise!!!I lost money bound up in the Empowerism matrix schemes. RSVP is a total joke. First to get in made big bucks, but later to join lost their money with endless extending pay dates. Back when I first joined Empowerism, the leads/autoresponders I purchased could be used to promote any business, but while I was a member, they changed their rules to only use these for promoting Empowerism. If I buy leads, or use of an autoresponder, I expect to be able to use these tools for my own purposes.

Stay away from Empowerism. If someone buys your way in, you will then be expected to pay a monthly subscription. The only way it's free is if you get other people to pay monthly under you in the matrix.

69mike

March 20th, 2007, 10:30 PM

I found this thread again.

Hi it's been a while since I wrote so I'm going to post.
I'm still a member of Empowerism and I have had the help of many people in the forums teaching me how to build websites, splashpages and lead capture pages.

I'm not making enough money to live off this but I have managed to make money with Empowerism.

In recent month I have been paid close to $2k.

I look at this as an education in internet marketing.
Still pays on-time and still around.

Just letting you know.

Take care,

69mike

ycchen

March 21st, 2007, 02:13 AM

empowerism is a dead pyramid/ponzi/matrix for a long time. Anyone who ever made money are those early birds. "Still pay on-time" is a lie. The pyramid is too big to pay ontime. Unless what you mean by "ontime" is 100 years? :rolleyes:

empowerism is a well designed scam that sell "useless leads". Stay away as far as possible. Or better, start filling complaint to the Attorney General of Georgia and get it close down ASAP.

69mike

March 21st, 2007, 06:22 AM

Hi,

I've enjoyed reading your post Ycchen.
It's a pleasure to chat with someone with your knowledge of scams.
I respect your point of view.

There are people who should not join Empowerism, which btw is still around and I did receive payment of $1k into my moneybookers account on-time as according to the specified payment date given to me by Empowerism which was Wednesday. The rest of the moneys are in my accrued account to pay for more advertising.

People who look to get rich quick, should not join this program.
People with this type of mindset tend to give up in 3-6 months.

I personally look at it as an educational course for online marketing.
Leads, E-mail ads, Google ads, are just some of the teachings I have learned thru Empowerism.

I've been a member of YMMSS, YMWS, IT, MMD, DM and these programs are either gone or about to be. They had no sepcific product nor did they teach their members how to market online except giving them a referral ID to advertise.

I believe this is what seperates Empowerism from the rest of the programs that you have called scams.

Just my 2 cents.

I will look forward to your response my friend.

Take care,

Michael

Webwatch

March 21st, 2007, 07:10 AM

Hi Mike while your waiting for Ycchen just thought Id put in my 2 cents.
I've been a member of YMMSS, YMWS, IT, MMD, DM and these programs are either gone or about to be. They had no sepcific product nor did they teach their members how to market online except giving them a referral ID to advertise.How is empowerism so different what great products do they offer all I can find is the usual replicating web page and a vague variety of self help e-books, oh and a 20 page e-zine.

Empowerism FAQ:
Will I have to recruit others? What happens if I do not sign others up?
No sponsoring is required! At 61 days, the Basic Member must upgrade OR have at least one personal sale. If neither has occurred, the Basic Member will be deactivated. If you are a subscriber but have not renewed after 90 days or have a personal sale in your downline, your account will be deactivated.
How else can you earn hobby income from this if not by recruiting others-is there a product or service they sell that I have missed.

Will I make money simply by being an Empowerism Subscriber or buying a subscription?
No, simply buying a subscription does not guarantee you will make commissions. You earn commissions from the sale of subscriptions.

There may also be times when you will receive what's called "spillover" from your upline. This happens when an upline member makes more sales than will fit on any one level of their matrix, so the new sale is "forced" down into your downline. If you are a paid subscriber (or qualified but unpaid), you would receive commissions on that spillover. Nobody should rely on spillover - you may want to view it as unexpected income, which is always the best kind!So thats it then-the only way to earn money is to sell the business rather than anything actually usefull.

Mike if your having some success in this more power to you but for the majority this is just an opportunity to lose money and add another failed biz op to the pile.

So a sponsorship based biz with no tangible product and a requirement to constantly recruit in order to earn income, sounds familiar.
Seems like just another sheep mentality biz op carefully navigating that fine line between a Pyramid Scheme and Legitimate MLM.

sisco50

March 21st, 2007, 09:12 AM

"I personally look at it as an educational course for online marketing.
Leads, E-mail ads, Google ads, are just some of the teachings I have learned thru Empowerism"

69mike

I had invested a few bucks in the past for the sake of learning about program from the inside out but that did not change the fact that the program was a scam. I do not regret the loss of some pocket money for my education, but not all people can afford that attitude.

Bottom line for me is that I have learned all scams are basically the same. They all talk the talk, take your money, pay out a little in the early stage to attract more victims and then they close up shop. This all takes place in different time frames with many different lies being told along the way as a stall tactic while they scam all the money they can before running. Any of this sound familiar?

69mike

March 21st, 2007, 12:21 PM

Hi Webwatch and Sisco50,

Thanks for your replies.
I agree 100% that not everyone can afford to be an Empowerism member.
I might be fortunate enough to be able to pay for this education.

I believe in an older post it was mentioned that the products were 50 leads per month. There use to be an autoresponder with out subscrition but due to the ever changing spam laws, Empowerism has ceased this.

The only other online business that I was in that actually had a product was YMMSS. they sold advertising. this then changed into STA which became a traffic exchange like program in which you were paid by viewing 30 minutes per day based on your purchase of IBA's.

The others were doublers with no product and anywhere from 5%-20% commission on referrals. no ezines, no e-books what so ever.

Thanks again for letting me post my 2 cents.

It's a pleasure chatting with you both.

Take care,

Michael

ycchen

March 22nd, 2007, 06:16 AM

From the same link above, scroll to the middle and you will find the announcement of the new MVP doubler line by the CEO - Janet Wilson. She bluntly spell-out the "BIG" secret on how to take full advantage of the new MVP double line. Look for 3 magic words in her annoucement. :D

Okay, hint: Doubler :rolleyes:
Friday, December 3rd - A Day NOT to Miss!

Big announcement coming this Friday!! EVERY Empowerism member will want to get involved. We have found the way to put MORE dollars in your pocket by the holidays, jump start your advertising, AND boost sales in the RSVP matrix!

Hint: The only requirement to take advantage of FRONT ROW SEATING is that you must have purchased an RSVP leads package anytime after 11/3 (30 days prior to 12/3).

Make sure you are eligible NOW… Get ready, Get Set and Be Prepared to take action. To find out if you are qualified, check your View/Edit RSVP Orders page. If there is an order with New in the "Cycled From" column, and the order is dated 11/4 or later, you are qualified.

If not, then order your RSVP package today so as soon as the announcement comes out with all the details you'll be ready! You’re going to love the extra holiday cash, advertising benefits and watching RSVP go, Go, GO!!

If for some reason you haven’t told everyone you know about Empowerism, don’t wait! You’ve got to do it now! It’s time to get everyone lined up to participate. They must be a paid Empowerism subscriber and make at least one RSVP purchase to qualify.
69mike, did you join this MVP "on time" and get into the front row seat as advised by the CEO of this straight-line matrix (scam)? How did you make money from this wonderful program? Some latecomer paying you, right?

Empowerism is a straight-line matrix = scam. After we exposed it, and all their lines stagnant, Janet (like all the scam artist) take the "doubler" and "straight-line matrix" wording out of their program. Just like YMMSS doubler moving into pay-to-read STA.

Empowerism is dead, and you might be a few lucky one who take Janet advice and get into the "front row seat". (note: may I know when did you join Empowerism?) Any program that emphasize "front row seat" is a scam. Period. No legitimate company will use "first in first out" rule as the major incentive to recruit members.

Empowerism dies long time ago. Like all the scam artist, what Janet can hope for is to keep this scam afloat to look "legit". As long as there is no mass complain to any given authorities, she can safely pocket all the scammed money. :mad: Sooner or later, Empowerism will dissappear "quietly" like all matrix scams do.

Desperately trying to recruit deceived newbies into a dead scam is unethical and unlawful.

We hope more Empowerism victims will come together to take down this scam ASAP before more people donate their hard earn money to Janet and the front-row recruiters.

69mike

March 22nd, 2007, 08:44 PM

Hi Ycchen,

As always you have provided a great deal of information.
I will thank you in advance.

Yes, the wording in those updates were not the greatest I must agree.
As with any business sometimes people get a little excited when a new product or service that they believe is going to change the world or in Empowerism's case "the way to market online".

Empowerism is not a straight line matrix as you have stated above. Though they do have a Revenue plan as a benefit for purchases of their "leads" package (RSVP) or "Ads" package MVP.

Purchasing these products are completely voluntary. In fact the straight line matrix you speak of is also voluntary. When we purchase these products we have a choice if we want to enter our receipt into the straight line matrix to receive future revenue payments or just completely ignore the matrix and use the lead or ad products.

Empowerism does have a 3 x 9 matrix that all member's are entered.

As all business goes thru changes, Empowerism is in the process of providing members a more efficient way to advertise as e-mail marketing has become more difficult due to the Spam laws.

I do not know what the products are and when they will be announced but I have heard of changes in "product" in the near future.

To answer your question regarding my membership.

I originally joined on July 2004. I was a newbie in the world of internet marketing and I still consider myself a student. At this point I was still trying to figure out how to use an autoresponder.

As I am a slow learner, I tried time and time again. Janet took the time to teach me the basics of e-mail marketing.

I did purchase the RSVP and MVP packages early on.

I signed up for a second account thru OPFM in Dec 2005, which I have read about in this forum and I have read Wayne's thread.

This second account, took off like a rocket with spillovers and I had the priviledge in having a team of 130 at one time.

OPFM them took a turn for the worst as Wayne would put it. I also took a turn for the worst with the diagnosis of testicular cancer in 2006 and since then gone thru surgery and treatment.

I am now ready to get my education thru Empowerism again and When I did check my account well my first account never had any members below me so I was surprised to see I had 1 member.

The second account went from 130 to 23. I feel many have quit because of OPFM.

I decided I was going to teach everyone that an online marketing education was well worth $20/month and when they felt that they were ready to move on they could. I have not recruited anyone since but have spoken with my team and many have started to teach and "E-University" which is an internet marketing course. We have a online class every week and New members interested in advertising can join by participating in Empowerism.

Well now my team is over 230 and still growing. Members will eventually learn enough about internet marketing and leave but meanwhile they are having a great time learning from our classes.

I'm not here trying to change your minds about Empowerism, just giving my experience with them and it's only been good.

This post is getting way too long. Thanks for letting me post and I will eagerly wait for your replies.

Take care,

Michael

ycchen

March 23rd, 2007, 08:27 AM

Empowerism is not a straight line matrix as you have stated above. Though they do have a Revenue plan as a benefit for purchases of their "leads" package (RSVP) or "Ads" package MVP. Hi 69mike, I am not going to change your mind on Empowerism either. :) We all know very well that some front-row recruiter (or simply true believer) will defense a scam until the very end. It is just human nature.

If you read the thread from the very begining, you will find that I have documented enough evidences to proof why empowerism is a straight-line matrix (=scam) irrespect of what it sells -- which is useless/junk leads (as we all know by now).

Just a quick response to your statement that Empowerism is not a straightline matrix. You might say that Empowerism is not a doubler either. lol Here is what I had documented from the website. See the next quote straight from Janet Wilson directly.

It is just another post getting a bit "too excited" again? :rolleyes:

Why don't you count how many doubler/doubler words in these two scam advertisement? :)
Double Your Money in DAYS!

The Easiest Money You'll Ever Make

Empowerism - This 6 1/2 year old internet giant has introduced a company-wide straight-line matrix where you double your money every few days.

* No recruiting, no phone calls, no meetings, no huge time commitment
* No big financial outlay, no JOB (Just Over Broke), no debt

You can buy as many positions as you want. They are $25, $50, $100 or $200 and then all you need do is wait for them to cycle through the matrix. You can opt to be paid once (double what you put in) when it cycles, or you can set it to build and pay recurring income of $200 or $400 per cycle. You can also set it to repurchase positions until notified. When you choose this option, you will continue to cycle through the matrix until your income reaches $800. Then the $800 redeposited in the matrix as TWO $400 positions. Now you have TWO $400 positions cycling through the matrix until THEY reach $800, at which time they are split again and become FOUR $400 positions. This continues to double your revenue for as long as you choose. This option is for long-term planners, those who want to see their money growing week after week, month after month.

To see the current matrix, click here, and to read the FAQ click here. When you are looking through the matrix you can use your browser's "find" feature to locate all my positions. My ID is 19014.

Given we are talking about a 6 1/2 year old business, which obviously is here to stay, it is DEFINITELY worth the price of membership to participate in the revenue stream(s) available through this matrix.Here's how it works:

First - Become an Empowerism Subscriber. Your subscription comes with your own feature-rich auto-responder, 50 leads each month, and loads of other benefits!

Second - Order ANY leads package, starting at just $25. Your leads will be deposited right into your auto-responder and your earning power starts immediately!

Third - Watch your income GROW - literally! Whatever amount you spend on leads is deposited right into the straight-line matrix, where it doubles over and over again. Every single person who orders leads after you is placed under YOU! You can watch each day as you move up the matrix and double your money in record time!

Fourth - How do you want to be paid? Your choice! You can leave your money in and watch it grow or you can collect half of your earnings and use the rest to double your money again!

There is NO LIMIT on how many leads packages you can order to enter into the matrix!

What makes the Empowerism R.S.V.P. different from ANY other matrix of this kind?

A consumable product - LEADS! Everyone in this business needs leads and an auto-responder to send email to those leads. Empowerism delivers the entire package!

69mike

March 23rd, 2007, 08:41 PM

Hi Ycchen,

I must agree that both of those examples are terrible and should not be used.
I do not believe that either advertisement are currently being used.

I appreciate the time you took to post these examples.

I will post from time to time. I've enjoyed the conversation with everyone and want to thank everyone for their time.

I might be considered the crazy one here because of my views towards Empowerism but all of you have made me feel welcome.

I do believe that the work being done with YMMSS and IT and PIPS is a worthy cause.

Thanks for your time.

Michael