Gotmatrix Investigation

[ycchen]

big sis christy is helping up again with latest information on the identity of Greg Day. Good job! :)
http://www.matrix-sites.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1525&st=45

My personal experience with internet fraud is to file police report to the "fraud department" at the local police station. If you have enough police reports (let say 20-30 reports), the local police will investigate it. big sis or others might like to post the CONTACT information of the "fraud department" of the local police station where Greg 'might' live.

According to my previous experience, after the first person file the police report on this 'internet fraud', the police will open a new case file (with case number) to collect further evidences or complaints. When they have ENOUGH complaints, they will take actuion. Remember, if they do not receive ENOUGH complaints, they will most likely to delay any actions.

Any delay will give Greg more time to run. My story ends up with a man hunt for 2 years. (not matrix owner, but similar kind of internet fraud). This scammer finally was caught and prosecuted. If he has money, we might get partial refund. But at that time, he was broke already, so he went to jail.

If you want to get Greg, better do it now when he is still holding your money. After 1 year on the run, he would have spent every penny of it. :( I suggest that victims of the scam file FORMAL report to the local police fraud department, because they are the person who can take real action to arrest him IF they find him guilty of course.

See ..greg is very smart, he completely erased the gotmatrix from the web, makes it harder for investigation to collect evidence. I know many of you geeks might have saved gotmatrix webpage content. More information will speed up the investigation, thus action. Police won't take action if they think they do not have enough evidences on the case. This is what I learnt from my previous experience with internet fraud. The fraud division/department of my case is located in Long Beach Police Station.

I open this threat in support of the effort on the pro-matrix forum. Victims are welcome to discuss your insights and stories here as well.

[mikv]

Well it seems that Got-Host, Greg's Webhosting Site has disappeared too. It was still up over the weekend, but this morning it seems to be gone as well.
No communication from the "matrix king" as of yet.

[wetdog]

hope christy and her husband can find this crook!

[Dreamer]

I suggest everybody get together and file a class action lawsuit against this guy. Make him a wanted man.

If everybody puts in a dollar, hire a private investigator to find him. I'm sure christy's husband is doing a good job, but now is the time to hire professionals to do the work before he goes too far away.

The people who paid by check/money order should find out what address they sent it to. Somebody should also start contacting the pay processors he's ever used to get information on him that way, his bank account, etc.

Nemesis and anybody else who cycled should contact an attorney and sue him seperately for the money owed. Than, see if you can attach his house/car or whatever he might have so he can't sell it.

Remember guys, GM was the good matrix site. It will never go away. The Lord Emperor himself is an outstanding citizen. You guys trusted GM so much. Why are you going to waste more money on a different site?

GM was different. I think he wanted to stay in business forever. Most will scam you as quickly as possible and go away.

What each of you guys need to do is file a complaint with the FTC, Fraud.org, and anywhere else online that you can file complaints to. Everybody in agreement he's in Ohio? Somebody should post the info on how to contact the Attorney General (Is that who I'm thinking of? I'm having a brain fart right now) for Ohio. Also, somebody should post somewher how to file a complaint with the police department in the last known address. One or 2 of you won't make a difference, but if the FTC gets 300 complaints on this guy, I bet they will do something.

[wetdog]

I have a nice file going for aka Gregs contacts.

anyone that needs it i will send it to you, also he uses the ev1 as his dedicated box, please e-mail abuse@ev1.net with your complaints as they have his real contact information.

Lets get this scammer before he does it again.

[Dreamer]

Heh! I could care less about GM anymore. i posted one thing on M-S and I've been banned for a year. Boy, did I post a really bad thing, huh?

You guys get what you deserve. You were too damn greedy wanting other people to buy you stuff...so stop crying. I was trying to help you guys out anyway that I could, but who cares now.

[ycchen]

Originally posted by wetdog
I have a nice file going for aka Gregs contacts.

anyone that needs it i will send it to you, also he uses the ev1 as his dedicated box, please e-mail abuse@ev1.net with your complaints as they have his real contact information.

Lets get this scammer before he does it again.

Excurse my ignorance, but I don't quite understand the ev1 thing. What should we include the in the complaint to "abuse@ev1.net"? What will be the effect of this complaint? Please elaborate, thanks.

[wetdog]

maybe if enough people complain we can get some real contact information, as he commited fraud.

[ycchen]

I see your point. The possible downside is that if enough people complaint, ev1 might just close all Greg's sites, then it will be harder for any future investigation, right? Just a question, I have no answer on this one.

The other thing we might be able to get from EV1, other than the real contact numbers, is the backup of Greg's gotmatrix website. Do you think we can ask ev1 to keep a copy of gotmatrix info?

By the way, what about matrixagency? They claim (and still does) that they have Greg's real identity, is that true or not?

While everyone is busy looking for Greg, we must also think what to do next even if you find Greg, right? Below is a MOCK conversation 1:

"Are you Greg Day"?

"Yes, what do you want?"

"I need my money back on gotmatrix!"

"sorry, no more money, it has all been frozen by stormpay because too many people file charge back! Go ask watchdog for the money! "

"I don't care, I want my money back!!"

"Sorry, no money and don't call me again!"

"I...." Greg hung up the phone!

Then what? I think it is very important to find Greg using our informal networks, but the main purpose of this informal investigation is to provide useful information for the police to start their formal investigation. They are the ONLY human being that can get a warranty of search and arrest.

That's my 2 cents.

Without formal investigation, Greg might just buy out those who reach him first and interrupt the investigation. His trick of paying a few to shut-up is notorious. If that happen, the alternative senerio will looks like this. Here is another possible MOCK conversation 2:

"I want to talk to Greg Day"

"Where do you get this number?!"

"I want my money back!"

"We will talk about that later, but tell me where do you get this number? Did you give it to someone else?"

"Not yet, if you don't give me all my cycled and invested money, I will."

"I have no money to give you, but if you give out my personal contact, I will sue you!"

"Sue me? Go ahead, I will go and post your contact on matrix-sites.net!"

"Okay, let's talk, what much are we talking about?"

......

Of course, Greg will pretend to send out the money just to buy himself some time to change telephone number or move to a new place.

Using his "buy out, silence and buy time" strategy, he might be able to interrupt or at least delay the investigation. Therefore, I strongly believe that this informal effort should go hand in hand with formal investigation to prevent buy out to occur again. :(

Just my 2 cents.

[Dreamer]

I'm just waiting for those last 2 checks he sent out to bounce.

[wetdog]

he scammed over 1000 people i think from reading how many members ther forum had. His time will come, cant hide 4-ever.

[Agent|Star]

ycchen,

Im a little confused are those actual phone conversations??

[ycchen]

Originally posted by BigStarr
ycchen,

Im a little confused are those actual phone conversations??

No, it is not :D I like to predict Greg's move, which is fun and pretty close to the reality 'so far'. So, I just imagine what it will like if someone finally talk to him. Sorry about the confusion :D

My point is: we need to launch a real police report 'together' will all the informal investigation by pro/anti-matrix community.

[Agent|Star]

Oh... for a second there I thought the first convo was real and second was fake... you might wanna put in BOLD LETTERS that its a mock conversation.... Boneheads like myself that just skim posts might get the wrong impression...

With all that has happened I don't believe Greg did any of this to delibertly scam people. I think he openned his site and belived he could make it work, then he was faced some challenges and made bad choices...

What would you do?

[wetdog]

give all a refund and pay those that cycled!

NOT RUN WITH THE CASH LIKE HE DID!

[ycchen]

May be. Given that he started his business in March 2003, there is a possibility that he thought it was a legitimate and working business model. It's possible.

However, I think 3 months later (mid 2003), I believe that he should have known that he is running a pyramid scheme, and the pyramid is expanding in an alarming stage. I think at this stage he is 99% sure of this unethical business model, or scam model to be more precise.:D

By the end of the 2003, I am 1000% sure that he know EXACTLY what he is doing.

There are too many times he can just turn back and close down the scam but he did not! He defended his scam, and continue to get more people to involve, until it completely run out of steam and crashed!

That's the fake of EVERY pyramid scheme, NO EXCEPTION.

What do you mean he made bad choices? By choosing a pyramid scheme as core business is bad enough. Nobody can fix a pyramid scheme. Pyramid scheme is born as a scam, and EVERY pyramid scheme crash ed by its own weigth. It is just the same story repeat over and over again, in different form of course.

He should have learn from ex-owner like yourself to close and refund customers at a lost. Why bother, isn't it?

Even if he did not get charge back, or this pay processor did not frozen his account, his pyramid empire will collapse sooner or later. That's imperative since the day he choose pyramid scheme as his core business model. His fate has already determined the day he open "pyramid-gotmatrix."! :D

In fact, I would say he has actually make 'all the right decisions' compare to other copycat matrix. That is the main reason that he can scam so many and survive for so long! It is a miracle!

His success to stay popular for more than a year , compare with others, depend on four critical factors.

1) He pays cycled members, that distinguish him from most owners.

2) The role of Sigx97. Sigx97 has done all the dirty work for him. Without sigx97, gotmatrix forum will be a ghost town like Ahsu! When a forum turn into a ghost town, it is the end of the matrix. And to my surprise, he still act like he is pretty innocent after all he has done. This guy is simply -- unbelievable.

3) He virtually control all the pro-matrix websites -- top-matrix and matrixagency are all part of his cheering group.

4) Diehard supporters promoting madly on ebay!! In a way, his supporters has no choice since greg does not advertize at all. With enough customers stuck in the matrix, they will always have a ratio of customers who find all sort of ways to promote, legal or illegally. Even 3 days before the collapse, I was still arguing with gotmatrix sellers on eBay!

The first two are the essential factors, the last two are supplementary.

See, the 2nd generation pyramid-matrix scam has elimiate the forum because they can't find any moderator who is as effective as sigx97 in deleting emails and silence the dissents. He really did an INCREDIBLE job in keeping the scam going!

In short, Greg is just lucky to have his hit man to do the dirty job, while he continue to pay the cycled members to keep the pyramid scam afloat. He and sigx97 both know very well that the ship will sink eventually.

Last year, I perdicted that gotmrix will go under in March 2004, after X'mas. To my surprised, it actually drag for 4 more months. One of the reason is because of the few new lists and the super fast 500 list open in 2004. Best of all, Christy and Sisco50 (and a couple of supporters) also play a major role in keeping the forum positive and upbeat.

Together with Sigx97, they are the persons who actually run the "public relations" of the gotmatrix. They are the PR of gotmatrix!! In other words, new lists and these new PR are the new factors (out of my expectation) that prolong the life of gotmatrix for 4 months.

After the death of superfast $500 list, I knew very well that greg has run out of tricks. I just thought he might drag another month after he paid christy and sisco50 (& another representative from U.K. ..:) ) Why bother to pay if he want to close down immediately, right? I think somehow something get very wrong that he decides to just kill the site 1 month earlier. I am very curious about the REAL reason behind the closure. The reason can be a non-matrix related. I guess only Greg knows that answer.

[ycchen]

Originally posted by wetdog
give all a refund and pay those that cycled!

NOT RUN WITH THE CASH LIKE HE DID!

There you go! Personally, I think refund is good enough.

[the informant]

gotmatrix.com is back on line. Did anyone see it?

[mikv]

Yup, GM is back online but nothing has changed as far as updates.


UPDATE Greg speaks, here is what he had to say on his forum:

"I'm here, as you have seen the site has been having hosting problems and was down for 72 hours. The site is backup and fully functional again. Please contact me now that everything is functioning properly."

Now we'll see how the members react, yesterday and the day before it was a virtual lynch mob, we'll see how many change faces now the "king" has spoken.

[the informant]

On GM's forum Greg posted a message under WHere id the owner of this site? He wants us to tell him if everything is alright with the site.

[ycchen]

haha... we will see how those pro-matrix people change their face again :D It is getting better and better.

I bet Sigx97 will resume to his position as the Greg's loyal hit man again for a simple reason. He needs more newbies to donate money to cycled himself out. He knows that if no one gets pay, he will still be the only person who gets pay because of his valuable contribution to the scam.

Greg and many early supporters are on the same boat again. Thank god! This time, they might collaborate closer because if they don't cycle now, it will be never! But can they trust Greg? In some ways, they thought they have NO choice but to stick with the con-artist. They are scammed, so now they need to stick with him to scam newbies so that they get paid and leave the mess to the newbies.

For those 80% permanent donors, you have a choice. After seeing the ugliest chapter of pyramid scheme, you know you chance of success in your investment is zero and in the hand of the King and his supporters.

Anyways, I guess I will rest for a while since I bet most supporters will quit their investigation and rush back for money or whatever. If those in the 80% donor position do not act, no one can stop this scam machine from sucking more newbies blood to feed the hungry supporters and speculators.

Good luck to Greg's fan, and see you next time when your king decide to dissappear again. Try to get as much as possible before that happen again. That's your last chance.

By the way, I think the owner of matrix-sites.net should just delete the threat on gotmatrix investigation. That is too negative and will hurt the reputation of gotmatrix and pro-matrix community in general. It is all a big "misunderstanding". The honest King is back and we can all live a happy life again! And continue assisting the scam like a happy family.

[Dreamer]

YAY IT"S BACK!!! THANK GOD!


I think nemesis just summed it up perfectly there. Out of everybody on the site, he should be most pissed off. Cycled months ago, his 2 other buddies eventually got their checks, and now it was accidently sent to somebody else, maybe...

But, that doesn't matter cause GM is up again! Cheer! Happy day! Lets all vote on M-S again for this site. We spent the last 3 days figuring out the best way to torture and kill him, but now that the site is up, we can go back to worshiping him.

[concerned]

It sure is strange how during this 3 day period, Gotmatrix got more votes at Matrix-Sites then they have gotten in the last 3 weeks combined. I guess they are more popular when they are shut down. It also goes to show that the voting process is a complete joke. They moved from 4th place to 3rd place when they were shut down. Maybe if they shut down for good, they will be number 1 again.

[Dreamer]

Unfortunately the site is a complete joke nowadays.

Within 2 minutes of me first posting something, the boy wonder banned me for a year. What was my post about? Another business that greg owned before, so maybe another way of contacting him. The guy who wasted his money buying the site told me the reason I was banned because a couple members saw my name, alerted authorities right away saying I was a horrible person, and he banned me because of that. I'm impressed with their user base that within 2 minutes of posting something, they read it and contaced the boy wonder.

Well, sierra allowed me back in since I had a clean state. my warning level was 10% with a note of ".". Than, once I attacked the moderator of GM for deleting all the posts on the forums, basically lying to the newbies to steal more money, I was given another 10% warning (whatever the heck that is) with a note not to slam the mods here. They are just doing their job. I didn't. I slammed the crook in GM who was so desperately trying to distance himself from batman and nobody thinks he is one bit to blame. If it wasn't for his lies, they wouldn't have scammed so many people.

And of course buttbuddy, I mean the boy wonder, reinstead my year long ban from M-S because I told him he could go back to spreading more lies on GM and continue to scam more people out. Wow...somebody gets so offended when you tell them their job description? I think he is more to blam than greg, because obviously greg doesn't care anymore about his site, so he's the one doing everything to lie and steal from people.

And Sierra...why the heck would you want an a-hole like him running your boards? He is the biggest part of the problem at GM and tries to hide behind his stupid mod position thinking he's innocent. Or do you just not care anymore seeing as how the site you bought just pretty much turned into a matrix advertisement board and thats it.

[ycchen]

Business as usual .. LOL. What about all the 'evidences' that big sis hold against Greg? They all suddenly become irrelevent? :D

I have to thank Greg for this 72 hours shut down, it reveals a lot about the darkside of humanity.

Matrix suddenly become just another risky business? lol... how can it be risky if you know when to attack a business and get cycle in 1 minutes? How can that be any risk at all? I don't understand the logic.

Where is the risk comes from? If you are buddy of the owner, your risk is ZERO because your name will be pack in front of everyone else. Where is the risk?

If you are top 5% you get everything, if you are at the bottom you got nothing. If you join $25 list on gotmatrix, there is absolutely NO RISK, cause you won't get a penny. I would actually extend that to EVERY LISTS on gotmatrix. There is ZERO risk if you join in now, cause you will get nothing in return. It is not a risky investment, it is non-risk donation! :mad:

Boy, Sigx97 now become the messanger of the King again. I bet he will have to dig a hole and bury himself when greg dissappear again. Wait, he can pretend that he does not know Greg if that happen again! People have short memory, they will forget and forgive.

Beside, it is 3 days!! Not 3 seconds. How can any one remember things happen 3 days ago? I can't even remember what breakfast I ate this morning, let alone 3 days. :D

The 72 hours shut down also reveal the true color of all this diehard supporters. Their have already heavily invested in gotmatrix. Their interest = Greg interest. The need gotmatrix to survive UNTIL enough newbies donate to cycle them out of the shxt hole.

Being a hit man has the priviledge of getting pay on time, while the rest has to beg and beg and beg for 'free gift'. Who knows what kind of deal behind these two people. You never know. But no one care any more as the King is back. Business as usual. Everyone resume to their position. Hit man standby. PR standby, and poor newbies still begging to have their names on the hopeless lists :mad:

Pyramid scheme is a very sick system. Many people turn into cold blood scammers when they have their feet too deep into matrix. It's like addiction. Too bad, Greg is short of money now, so he won't be as generous as before to give away the 'free' drugs to the addicts. My goodness, I just discover that Greg is actually the druglord of the matrix! lol :D

add: Can anyone find the post by christy about her husband investigation on Greg Day? It seems to evaporate from M-S? I wonder why? :rolleyes: I guess many might have regret speaking the truth, cause the King might use those post against them in the future. May be, just may be, The matrix druglord just want to test the loyalty of his followers? LOL.. most fail the test of course. But it doesn't matter, as long as they behave themselves from now on, they 'might' get their free drugs :D

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by wetdog
give all a refund and pay those that cycled!

NOT RUN WITH THE CASH LIKE HE DID!


This is impossible especially for a site his size.. probably more impossible then having a successful matrix.

Ycheen your great at doing the math for matrix sites, why not do the math to figure out the HOLE in the pocket of a site owner like Greg if they even attempted to pay back these people....

The owner only plays the part of a banker that get a % off each completed transaction. The owner might hold onto a lot of money at a point but once a person cycles that money is given to the cycler and owner gets a cut...

If we expect owners to refund everyone it would probably be based on "Amount Paid -- Amount Cycled -- Refund Fee". Which leads to another question, all his customers who promoted the site should they be held accountable too?

[Dreamer]

Ycheen your great at doing the math for matrix sites, why not do the math to figure out the HOLE in the pocket of a site owner like Greg if they even attempted to pay back these people....


I'm sure thats simple enough to do. I could do an excel real quick to figure out...but what I'm interested in is how much he has already squandered out of his victims.

A post somewhere mentioned that he paid off a cycled tv, and there was a chargeback hitting him pretty good (I'm not sure, bedause wouldn't he have just one less payment?). So, if he was actually taking this as a real business, he should have alot of money in his business account to pay cyclers. But he is not doing that. He needs more victims to fill his purse to pay the people talking loudly.

so, what should his bank account be? Total money invested in the lines - cycled pays. I somehow don't think that number is less than $500 to pay poor nemesis. Out of everybody I feel most sorry for him. Yeah, I don't think he deserves it, being a scam and all, but his gift when thru the cycle, so he should get what is owed to him.

[mercinary]

Another interesting thought....

Do you think Greg is reporting all of this extra income to the IRS?

Maybe an audit is in order.....tax evasion is a pretty nasty crime.

-Merc

[Dreamer]

What is his sales? Up to a million dollars? Thats a nice angle to look at.

[ycchen]

I have a complete report in Nov. 2003. I might do an update one these days.

download:
http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/attachment.php?postid=9223

the threat:
http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=962

In Nov. the amount that he needs to refund is around US$315K. Of course, I think it might increase to $350K by now.

If he is very serious about closing the scam and take the responsibility, I believe many would accept taking a partial refund, let say 80%. Then, the total refund would be $280K. This amount does not deduct those clients who has taken some of the cycled money already. I don't think they deserve a full (or 80%)_refund in this case. The total amount for these clients (half cycle half waiting) should be a (Total invest - Total received)x 80%. In that case, the total refund is very likely to be around $150-200K.

Do you think Greg will do the right thing? I think he will IF all his diehard supporters pressure him to do so. If the diehard supporters decide to change position and side with the newbies (or donors), then the chance of forcing the owners to refund EVERYONE (-minus cycled money) is more promising.

However, if the diehard decide to stick with the owner and continue to paint a pretty picture of matrix (we usually call that deceptive rhetoric if not lies :D), then, the owner will have no incentive or pressure to do the right thing. :(

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by ycchen
I have a complete report in Nov. 2003. I might do an update one these days.

download:
http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/attachment.php?postid=9223

the threat:
http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=962

In Nov. the amount that he needs to refund is around US$315K. Of course, I think it might increase to $350K by now.

If he is very serious about closing the scam and take the responsibility, I believe many would accept taking a partial refund, let say 80%. Then, the total refund would be $280K. This amount does not deduct those clients who has taken some of the cycled money already. I don't think they deserve a full (or 80%)_refund in this case. The total amount for these clients (half cycle half waiting) should be a (Total invest - Total received)x 80%. In that case, the total refund is very likely to be around $150-200K.

Do you think Greg will do the right thing? I think he will IF all his diehard supporters pressure him to do so. If the diehard supporters decide to change position and side with the newbies (or donors), then the chance of forcing the owners to refund EVERYONE (-minus cycled money) is more promising.

However, if the diehard decide to stick with the owner and continue to paint a pretty picture of matrix (we usually call that deceptive rhetoric if not lies :D), then, the owner will have no incentive or pressure to do the right thing. :(


I dont know what he will do.... I don't even know what I would do in his position.... I guess you go forward so far that your to scared to turn back.... Eventhough, what lies ahead is as horrible as turning back lol.... In his position it would probably be best seek advise on how to get out of this mess LEGALLY.

The problem is closing the site makes everyone worry and scream scam!... keeping the site open makes everyone scream cycle me!... So what if he did wanna close his site, if he did that everyone would jump his a$$ for immediate refunds and start screaming scam!

Maybe..... he should change his site to accept Money Orders only, this will slow down any possible new joins. In this case, the site is sumwhat closed but not really cause its still up and running. During this time he starts working toward building monies for refunds....

Like I said, he didn't open his site to scam anyone. He believe in matrix and believe he could make it work. Thats obvious cause he didnt hide his identity! And he thought by not hiding his identity people would trust in his honesty, I guess in the end that don't matter and that honesty is what may put him in a crappy position...

:confused: Ditch US citizenship and move!! lol

[ycchen]

Originally posted by BigStarr
I dont know what he will do.... I don't even know what I would do in his position.... I guess you go forward so far that your to scared to turn back.... Eventhough, what lies ahead is as horrible as turning back lol.... In his position it would probably be best seek advise on how to get out of this mess LEGALLY.

The problem is closing the site makes everyone worry and scream scam!... keeping the site open makes everyone scream cycle me!... So what if he did wanna close his site, if he did that everyone would jump his a$$ for immediate refunds and start screaming scam!

Maybe..... he should change his site to accept Money Orders only, this will slow down any possible new joins. In this case, the site is sumwhat closed but not really cause its still up and running. During this time he starts working toward building monies for refunds....

Like I said, he didn't open his site to scam anyone. He believe in matrix and believe he could make it work. Thats obvious cause he didnt hide his identity! And he thought by not hiding his identity people would trust in his honesty, I guess in the end that don't matter and that honesty is what may put him in a crappy position...

:confused: Ditch US citizenship and move!! lol

1. Any efforts of resolving this pyramid matrix scam ETHICALLY are welcome:) There is no other way than, a) stop receiving donation from newbies, b) announce a refund plan for different categories of customers.

2. As I said, I am willing to agree with you that Greg did not start this 'business' as a scam. He trully believe that it can work by continue to pay the cycled members. If you read my previous post, you will understand why my symphaty towards him evaporate after I realize that he KNEW about the mathemataically impossible of matrix SOON after his launch.

Unless he is a moron, otherwise, he is 10000000000% sure that he is running a pyramid scheme because of all the information and analysis available in early 2003.

No one can make a pyramid scheme works. If it works, it means it is scamming others to build the pyramid, in which more vicitms are suck into the horrible machine.

Bigstarr, do you honestly think that matrix is not a pyramid scheme? Do you honestly thinks that someone with enough patience will make it works? Do you really think matrix-sites can serve all its customers fairly, so everyone has an equal opportunity to get rewarded?

Greg has AT LEAST 1 whole year to turn back but HE CHOSE TO MOVE FORWARD. It was a CONSCIUOS DECISION TO CONTINUE THE SCAM.

Worst of all, he lies and lies and lies and lies all his way to keep his scam from collapsing. How can anyone sympatize with a liar even if his initial objective is genuine???!!!

It is the GREED, not HONESTY, that is driving this scam. Anyone who is half as honest will not do all these dirty tricks of manipulating their customers and supporters.

yes, of course, running a scam is not fun at all. He has to deal with a lot of 'shxt' and complaints from pay processors and customers (some of them are taking advantage of the scam). But who force him to do that? NO BODY. He chooses to run the scam, and he chooses NOT to stop it, and he chooses to continue to a point of no return. (in fact, it is still not too late to stop before law enforcement get involve).

He is a conscious subject. Or use your own words, he is an adult who knows what he is doing. He knows he is running a scam, and now it is time for his consciousness to come out and stop this mistake before REAL police officers knock on his door.

[concerned]

Originally posted by BigStarr
I dont know what he will do.... I don't even know what I would do in his position.... I guess you go forward so far that your to scared to turn back.... Eventhough, what lies ahead is as horrible as turning back lol.... In his position it would probably be best seek advise on how to get out of this mess LEGALLY.


Well, this is supposed to be one of the SUCCESSFUl sites out there. If this is what you expect out of a SUCCESSFUL site, then you certainly do know that no matter what happens, and no matter what your intentions are at the start, you will STILL end up scamming other people.

Makes you wonder about the UNSUCCESSFUL sites out there,

[Agent|Star]

I hear and agree to some of what you say ycchen. When I joined MatrixAgency I told him that he should close down his site and he always said he doesn't think its wrong and he can make it work...

You say:
a) stop receiving donation from newbies,
b) announce a refund plan for different categories of customers.

I cant imagine what a refund plan would be! Hes an averge person not a millionair comming up with over 200k? Would you have an idea of a refund plan? I ask cause there might be site owners reading this thread and not know where to start... I think there are site admins oblivious to what they are getting into and want to get out... Since this is MatrixWatch making admins aware is just as important as making customers aware.

Which leads into my next question, the admins are called the scammers over and over but as I said before they just play the role of a banker. So aren't the KNOWING customers the true scammers? :confused:

Hey there concerned... ;)
Wheres watchdog now days? :(

[ycchen]

Originally posted by BigStarr
Which leads into my next question, the admins are called the scammers over and over but as I said before they just play the role of a banker. So aren't the KNOWING customers the true scammers? :confused:
Interesting perspective :)

Owners as banker? Wow, I never thought of it that way! How can that be? :confused:

A banker is usually some one who receiving saving money from consumers with lower interest rate, then lend the money out to investors with higher interest. They make money out of the different in interest rate between saving and lending. Of course, the customer who put their money with the banker earn a low saving interest of 2% (current saving rate for some bank) per YEAR.

Matrix owner only receive money, and DO NOTHING about the money. They did not lend out the money to earn higher interest, nor do they invest the money in any productive means. Therefore there is ZERO ADDED VALUE to this received money. All they do is to redistribute the money to the early customer who will earn 200% interest!! (wow) while the owners take a 20 to 50% cut as reward to themselves. If a customer cycle in 1 day, that mean this customer get an saving interest rate of 200% per day = 200% x 365 = 730,000% per YEAR!! The interest rate (or profit rate) is 365,000 times higher than a bank!! Tell me any investment that can earn 730,000% profit if it is not a scam?! ..:D

How can you call them a banker at all?? :( If they are banker, then all pyramid scheme owners are all bankers. :D

Let me post the question back to you.

Is matrix-site a pyramid scheme? If you answer is yes, then we can continue our discussion. If you answer is NO, they are banker. Then, it is difficult to continue our dialogue..:)

If you haven't read the following 'ebook' :D, please take a quick look and tell me what you think. Then, we can come back to the question of whether owners are "bankers" or "pyramid scheme owners = scammers (consciously or unconsciously)" .

See, we don't just call anyone scammer because we don't like them. We have to have solid proof to back up our claim. The following 'ebook' is just ONE of the evidence.

http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1081

[Agent|Star]

It is clear what matrix is, without me saying it... Anyone who checks out the article section on this site would see it (good section by the way). It should be obvious that even I saw it as to thin a line (remember I closed my own site & advised greg to as well) over several months ago before those articles were wriiten...

Anyhow, I said they play a role of a banker, not that they are a REAL bank instituation. Although, you bring up an interesting fact maybe site owners can start investing the money lol...

You didnt answer my question, on should KNOWING customers be help responsible as well? cause to be honest the customers are the ones that advertise the site not the admins (in most cases).

[MatrixWatch]

This is a good topic. I think that a new thread should be started for the question of holding certain customers accountable.

Now, regarding GotMatrix refunds, it may be a good way for Greg to lay this dragon to rest.

That would be a good topic to discuss as well, but it really has nothing to do with the title of this thread which is "GotMatrix Investigation".

The more we try to keep these forums somewhat organized, the better a resource it will become for those researching certain topics.

It is good to see some of the heavy hitters in the community coming back to MatrixWatch.org. Perhaps we can come to some helpful conclusions together in a combined effort to help the current and former customers of the matrix sites.

[concerned]

Originally posted by BigStarr
You didnt answer my question, on should KNOWING customers be help responsible as well? cause to be honest the customers are the ones that advertise the site not the admins (in most cases).

Well, I totally agree with you on this, and so does the government. That is why PARTICIPATING in a Pyramid scheme is also illegal.

[Dreamer]

Which leads into my next question, the admins are called the scammers over and over but as I said before they just play the role of a banker.


What definition of banker are you suggesting?


someone who owns or is an executive in a bank



The capital requirements to start a bank often vary greatly from state to state. In Florida, the suggested capital requirement is $6 million for a bank in a metropolitan area and $4 million for a bank in a rural area.
There will also be a filing fee, which in Florida is $15,000
In all states, you are required to apply for deposit insurance with the FDIC before you can accept deposits from the public.
Banks also carry private banking insurance -- specially designed private coverage to protect deposits in the case of burglaries, robberies, vandalism, etc.


If the admin is a banker in this regards, I doubt that he went through all of these steps. I'm sure there must be some laws being broken if he is indeed a banker.

But, the very aspect of a bank is what is mentioned before. If I open an account, i am lending money to the bank. They are making money by lending the money out to corporations and people. I can, at any time, for any reason, take out all the money I put into the bank minus all the money I took out of the bank, along with an interest rate if it is an interest rate bearing account.

If you want to say the money is being lent to the banker, than each of the consumers is breaking usary laws. I think the maximum interest rate in CA is 10% per year. Some people are making 200% in one day. This is what loan sharks do. So, the consumers are being loan sharks now.

If you are talking about a banker as in a gambling banker, Ohio has a simple law for this:


Under the chapter, all forms of gambling and activities in aid of it are illegal if carried on as a business, or for personal profit, or as a significant source of income or livelihood.


So, what about just some business? I checked ohio.gov for his business license, and he doesn't have one. His site was down for 72 hours because of his large consumer database, yet he doesn't have a business license? Is that legal?

So, like suggested, I'm sure the IRS would like to know about these sites.

This is unrelated, but interesting none the less

http://www.pro-truth.net/62-con-artist-tricks.html#UseAThirdPartyDeceiver

(Letter to Kathy Ireland)


Here’s how the “Use a Third Party Deceiver” game is played:

The Manipulator finds someone, like you, who believes their lie, someone who is physically attractive, someone whom the public knows and respects, someone who will give their message a high level of credibility, someone who can elicit emotional responses in their listeners, and then the manipulators use that person to peddle their deception. The speaker’s passion and his/her belief in the lie overpower its falsehood and give the deception a great deal of credibility.

Also, because the manipulator isn’t doing the public speaking himself, he can’t get caught in his own lie, and if something goes wrong, he also has a ready-made scapegoat at whom he can point the finger.


I personally believe that the members are as much to blame as the site owners because they are the ones spreading the lies and deceipt. But, if you want to find better definitions of all the players in these games, i'm all for it. I think banker by both definitions is wrong.

[Dreamer]

I'm sure this is a coincidence, but amusing none the less. M-S was busy playing Where's Greg.

I think Nemesis found him. Or, at least some that looks like him:

http://www.gotmatrix.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1794

whoa I just found something weird in my paypal account. When I was promoting gotmatrix on ebay, I just saw that I got a payment from a Greg Day (that's the name of gotmatrix's owner if anyone doesn't know). Some address in wisconsin though.


Probably just a coincidence, but I don't even think greg can find greg anymore, if that is his real name.

[ycchen]

Good that you saved this threat cause it had been deleted from GM!

If the pay is $500 or $1000, then it shouldn't be any coincidence. I hope Nemesis can tell us more about this info on Matrix-sites.net. On the other hand, I won't be surprised if he chosen to protect Greg's real identity (or location) -- a good barganing chip to his advantages, isn't it? :D

But on the other hand, if he really got paid $500 or $1000 by THE greg day, he would have jumped up and down already, isn't it?

[Dreamer]

Damn. The boy wonder is quick today! I just read that like 15 mins ago!

Does he have an account here? I have a couple questions for him.

1. When you go to GM, and you sit at your computer, do you start singing "nhah nhah nhah nhah nhah nhah nhah nhah BATMAN! BATMAN!".

2. When you delete posts, I know you do it frequently, do you give sound effects? POW! BAM! EEK.

[ycchen]

Dreamer's explanation on the behaviour of banker is well said. bigstarr, I am sorry to tell you that your analogy of matrix's owner as banker is a not too convincing :)

As for customers, are they scammers too?

I think we need to distinguish two kind of customers. One is "speculators" and the other is "newbies". Speculators are those who exploit matrix scam to their own advantage. They are the KEY collaborators in 2nd generation matrix, such as realdealmatrix and cheetahmatrix. But let me tell you, they actually did not make much money over there. I haven't update my database, the data I have 3 weeks ago indicate that

MOST of them are losing money in these sites. big sis is doing very poorly in all these attack in fact. With couple of thousand dollars stuck in these 2nd generation scam, I am not sure if she can go around and attack other new sites. These are speculators. They are the CRITICAL part of the matrix scam. Of course, they are guilty, no doubt.

The second kind of customers are newbies who have NO idea of THE TRUTH of the matrix (The truth of the matrix is that it is a pyramid scheme. Period.) because they are deceived by the FAQ stating that 'straight line matrix" is not a pyramid scheme. EVERY OWNERS LIE about this. If an owner is trully honest, s/he should just say: we are a new kind of pyramid scheme, please join us at your own risk, do you think anyone will participate? Even the speculators won't because they know an honest sites will NOT attract enough newbies to cycle them out!

Before they learn about the lies and deceptive strategies of the owners (check the threat where I described the deceptive strategies of Mr. Day), NEWBIES have already thrown a lot of money usually into the LONGEST LISTS of the scam sites. Collectively, the speculators, promoters and early birds join hands to DECEIVE the newbires. Therefore, these newbies are the true victim of the scam, bullied by all ALL PARTIES! The best example is this guy (a newbie obviously) who is celeberating the return of the King (or druglord) and happily ask the King to put his name on the $25 list on gotmatrix. Some honest member (rare spices these days) on the GM forum told him/her that he needs probably 8000 newbies to make a $15 dollars profit. I think this newbie must be SHOCKED to learn thtruth of the matrix :(

Because of that, NEWBIES are always our main concern. Newbies are the best donors, ESSENTIAL to any pyramid-matrix scam. The owners, insiders and speculators all needed them badly!! Without donating newbies, pyramid scheme won't survive at all! :mad:

Without newbies donation, all these speculatros will be stucked in the matrix forever. They just can't cycle each other out, cause owners take a cut on every transactions, sucking the pool of money dry as the pyramid builds up. The only way that speculators and owners can really "win-win" is to deceipt newbies to donate their money to all the STAGNANT lists!! This is EXACTLY what is happening in these two 2nd generation matrix scam! These speculators are asking newbies to cycle them out of the list after their 'fail' attack. :mad: What is a fail attack? A fail attack means the targeted line stagnant before they enough newbies donate at the bottom. If you see only speculators name on the list, then I will consider that list a "fail attack". If you see new names at the bottom of the list to cycle all or part of the speculators out of that list, then it will be a successful attack! Fortunately, I see more failure than sucess attack so far. If NO newbies donate money to these speculators in their RISKY attack (risky in the sense that newbies might refuse to be a donor!! :mad:), they will soon run out of money to attack new lists. Therefore, you can see a collaborative effort between owners and speculators to ask newbies (they always say: we hope to see new names in the line) to donate money.

When the lawsuit fall on the 2nd generation matrix-scam, and it will be soon I believe. I will support the idea that these speculators should be sued together with the owner. Only then, we might be able to review some possible secret deal between the owners and speculators. I can't wait to see some 'insider trading' exposed!

Are they any scammer beside speculators? INSIDER! I have already noticed some new faces having 100% successul investment -- i.e. every spots they invested were cycled in some of these new matrix-sites. Either they are extremely lucky or they are just insiders or fake names. If that is the case, even some of seasoned speculators are scammed by the owner! :D

Bottomline, Bigstarr, I hope you understand why we have little symphaty towards owners (except those very innocent one in the early part of 2003) because they know EXACTLY that they are running a pyramid scheme! But the conscious one like yourself had already close down and refund. If they are truly sincere business people, they should just close their site immediately and refund all the customers in a reasonable way, accepted by both parties through a genuine and open negotiation.

[Agent|Star]

Chen, you never fail to make large posts heheh... Great responses typically but just far too long... Maybe you can start talking into the mic and posting up .wav files... Just playing :D

Well take care fellas I was bored so I stopped by... In fact, I'm still bored need a new hobby... Im gone for awhile again.

By the way, WatchDog could you make my name "Agent|Star" here... The line in my name is a key near Enter Key... Its the | & \ Key.... Thanks...

[ycchen]

my post is only for totally bored human being who has COMPLETELY lost their meaning in life :D

Probably I should really go and 'get a life' instead of monitoring all these BORING and UNCREATIVE pyramid-matrix scam! :cool:

quick question, why is your title : guilty?

[Agent|Star]

For fun... Surprised you noticed it.

[weirdid]

I guess you mean this key | its called "pipe", any linux people on here will know what it is :D

[MatrixWatch]

Does anyone know why this thread was closed? I've temporarily opened it back up for a response.

[dmek69]

Hello all. I have been tirelessly going through my bank records from last year and I finally found the receipt for Got Matrix. Dated 10/14/2003.

Those who did not pay through PayPal may be interested in what I found and even if it isn't substantial information it will atleast be some kind of lead.

The following number was on my bank receipt from Got Matrix: 513-753-5117.
When I performed a search at Google it returned this info: Gregory Day, (513) 753-5117, 2100 Link Side Dr, Cincinnati, OH 45245.

This is definately different than the Wisconsin address reported by Dreamer and more like an address I saw in other discussions concerning Greg Day.

**Please let me or anyone of us know if you are able to find out anything else about Greg Day.**

[MatrixWatch]

The following number was on my bank receipt from Got Matrix: 513-753-5117.
When I performed a search at Google it returned this info: Gregory Day, (513) 753-5117, 2100 Link Side Dr, Cincinnati, OH 45245.

From what I know, that info was posted in the public domain in the early days of GotMatrix's existence. It was open posted on their payment page.

On account of this, I am opting not to edit this info out of your post (we usually don't allow public info to be posted on the public forums).

I would not recommend that the GotMatrix customers try to contact Greg at this address or phone number though. It is best to hand this information over to the authorities, and possibly search for an attorney in the Cincinnatti area to represent your case.

You need to get on it fast though, because time is the enemy of a class-action lawsuit. My motto about run-away matrix scammers has always been, "Give a bully enough rope, you hang first".

[OROZCOM]

Ok, it looks like Greg has now shut down his site and has ran away with our money. :mad:

What can we do from here? :confused:

I cycled months ago and Greg owes me $3950.00 from the cycled goods.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

[mercinary]

There is a lot you can do. You need to start with filing complaints with the various agencies we list in our "File a Complaint" menu item. You can also get to that page here:

http://www.matrixwatch.org/modules.php?s=&name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=4


I've recently helped another M.W. member with a similar topic (a different matrix site though). Go look at my post in that thread to see my suggestions:

http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?p=15258#post15258


Lastly, go check out this thread:

http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1702

-Merc

[samslack]

OK all,

I have contacted the Cincinnati Police they said that Greg Day is not in their jurisdiction they instructed me to call the Claremont sheriffs department. When I spoke with them they said they can not go to them directly.

They told me that you must call your local PD or Sheriffs dept to file a report of internet crime. This is key without everyone doing this they will not go after him neither will the BBB or FTC.

It only takes a few minutes of your time so jump on the band wagon and call your local authority. Don't be afraid. Your tax money is paying their salary.


We all must work together to get him

also I asked my credit card company if they could refund the charge they said "NO" not after this much time.

I have to hand it to Mr. Greg Day he had a cleaver plan and it worked.


ITS NOT TO LATE LETS GET THIS GUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell everyone that purchased something from gotmatrix to do the same

We can win this with everyones help.....