Money doubler sites

[Dreamer]

Ok, I don't know if this was discussed before, but what do you guys think of these doubler, and now trippler, sites?

To me, it sounds like just straight forward ponzi schemes. Has anybody have any info on them?

I'm assuming the scam works this way:

1. Get alot of people to give you money.
2. Promise a cycle period of whatever amount of days.
3. cycle all the shares for everybody until it looks like you can cover any amounts of money people actually request back (kind of like what banks do...they only keep like 10% of all their customers money in the bank itself because not 100% of the customers will want 100% of the money back).
4. Pay off people when they request money to a point than run with the money.

I know for you diehard matrix supporters all of these are legit businesses. But, compare their times to matrix cycle times. Goto GM and you MIGHT double your money in 7 years. But they can double any amount of money in 2 days? How do they make money?

Any thoughts would be appreciated, especially from anybody who has actually "invested" in these sites and have an understanding of how they work.

[motyl24]

Dreamer, can you give an example of such a site? I'd like to have a look.
Cheers

[Dreamer]

http://easychairclub.com/ - they seem to not be taking any new memberships right now due to the popularity of it all. thats why it doesn't seem matrisish.

http://www.worldwidems.net/

http://65.98.33.106/index.asp - This is a trippler. Look at the IP address...would you invest there? I'm just looking for the :80 at the end of it.

Those are just a few that I could find this quickly

[motyl24]

Well, it looks much worse than anything else mentioned on this website...
It's ONLY about recruiting. They don't promis you that THEY will double your money. They just give you opportunity to do so... By recruiting others that will invest.

[Andrew2]

Just a pyramid scheme. Pure junk.

[Dreamer]

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=945
http://www.doublersprofitclub.com/?ktodary1

Here is 37 pages of an interesting read of a site that lasted a few hours until hackers took over and took alot of their money. Its always about the evil hackers that are so quick to find the site upon launch, figure out admins password without admin knowing and change things around. People believe this garbage?

The whois reveald a whole bunch of n/a's. On the first page a "friend of admin" started pushing the site hoping to get 500 members before launch. He seemed to know too much about the admin, including that admin got 2000 emails in a couple of hours along with details about the site. But come page 34ish he tried emailing admin but no luck.

this friend promised to become verified with stormpay (I think) asap to make people feel better. People noticed there were no withdraw options and the contact us page was blank for awhile. Probably hackers again - blame everything on hackers because most people aren't that bright to know anything about hacking.

After like an hour after launch they had script problems and had to add people by hand. Doesn't anybody keep backup copies of scripts anymore? How exactly does scripts go bad in an hour anyways? Its not like the executation of a script writes anything to it. Oh, I forgot hackers.

all in all people were happy to get back 80% of what they donated to the site. But, lets say they got 1/2 of the members they hoped for. And each member put in $100 (min was $10 max $3,000). So, total going into the site was $25,000. 20% of that is $5,000. Not bad for a days worth of work. And thats assuming they paid everybody. I'm sure they just paid the complainers. They claimed the other 20% was being used to pay the early withdrawels. Funny...nobody on that forum received a withdrawel even though they asked within 20 mins of site opening (ok, there might have been one, oh and there was the friend of the admin who received something).

Oh, just checked out the site. $30,000 received, $6,000 claimed to be paid for withdrawels, $24,000 refunded. Its amazing that it was exactly 20%. And people 15 minutes after site lauch asked for refund and nothing.

[Andrew2]

It's too bad these participants don't take the time to invest and build something for themselves like an honest investment account or a new business, instead of sinking money into this get rich quick scheme.

[hbaty]

There are several legitimate business opportunities on the net where you can double your money, one in which you get an actual product mailed to you and your money doubles.

They have a support room you can go to and ask Questions, not a forum but a live support room.

If anyone would like any information on this...

Please email me at: hbaty@yahoo.com

subject: more double information

[MaxProfit]

When I made an inquiry to a doubler site the following reply was sent...

Max I don't want your business as it is apparently clear to me you are a fool with extremely foolish comments.
Good day
Chas
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 6:58 AM
To: admin@internetcashmatrix.com
Subject: [SPAM] RE: [SPAM] What Makes internetcashmatrix any different


Oh Chas...I think NOT...I have every right to ask any question...in any way I see fit when it comes to spending my money!
As far as your script goes...there is no way to load test your script before hand because you have no idea as to the load that it will need to be able to handle during your launch. An established presence selling widgets...if you do indeed have an ecommerce site in the first place...has no relevance to the potential amount of traffic that your site may or may not receive during your launch. Furthermore...on the internet...there is no such thing as 100%...having worked at the headend at Earthlink & TimeWarner...I have a great insight as to what can...and will cause the data transmission not to flow as expected.

As to starting a business relationship...I guess you have no clue as to what aspects of a business relationship can and can not be covered...there are none!!! If you think that there are aspects that should not be covered in such a relationship where one party has control of the other party's money...perhaps you are in the wrong business...and should totally rethink your position and business model.

I think Chas, it's pretty much a given...that I will not be doing any business with you...now...or ever. Your misguided self-righteousness do you a great injustice...as well as doom you to certain failure. I'm neither a novice...an admin...nor a customer of yours.

~~Max Profit~~

admin@internetcashmatrix.com wrote:
Well we won't fail. The script is being modified and tested prior to launch. Also we have an established successful presence on the web giving our programs longevity compared to the fly by night operations. We will not open this site until every aspect works 100% . Also being a programmer myself and the head of IT for a major Insurance Company I think I might have a bit of an advantage over the novice admin.

PS I guess your chances of getting a response to this letter are greater than you thought. But you shouldn't be so sarcastic. Not a great way to start a business relationship.

Chas Boyer
WebTrafficPromotions.com
InternetCashMatrix.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 11:56 PM
To: support@internetcashmatrix.com
Subject: [SPAM] What Makes internetcashmatrix any different


Every doubler has failed...especially with a planned/announced launch like you've announced. The script don't work correctly...the server can't handle the traffic load...the admin don't have a clue...What makes your program any different...the hype has passed...you missed the boat...why should I think you will be able to overcome the same problems? What are the chances of me getting an answer to this email?

~~MaxProfit~~

[cybertrax]

Maxprofit;

I am not entirely surprised you were sent that reply!

Your questioning was not very tactful, and was worded in a very 'attacking' way. You did not appear to put much thought into the way you went about wording your emails, as you did not appear to actually be interested in any replies. The way that it appears, you seemed very keen on venting your thoughts, and didnt seem to care about any possible reply.

Any person that deals with a helpdesk will know how to deal with fristrated customers - that is their job. However, you were not an existing customer at the time, and in your second email stated quite clearly that you had no intention of ever being a customer. Any further reply to your email would be time-wasting, as it would never prove to be worth money now in the future to the business. Therefore, all that you appeared to be trying to achieve was to waste the time of that person by getting them to spend their time replying to your emails. You made it quite clear that you would never be a customer, and so it was standard time-management practise to discontinue any further correspondance. The short reply you received stating that your business was not required may have been a little over-the-top, but was probably a result of the frustration the helpdesk person felt.

It feels to me that you have a fixed-mind mentality - you have ideas in your head about these sites, and are not willing to listen or consider others opinions. This is not a good thing to maintain in life, as it will not elp you in the long run.

I am able to speak about these things as I myself am a director of two limited companies, and have a total of business's. I deal with customers both existing and potential all the time via telephone and email, and so feel that I know enough about this to make a comment. I have had training in time-management, and so know how frustrating it can be when your time is wasted.

[concerned]

There are several legitimate business opportunities on the net where you can double your money, one in which you get an actual product mailed to you and your money doubles.

They have a support room you can go to and ask Questions, not a forum but a live support room.

If anyone would like any information on this...

Please email me at: hbaty@yahoo.com

subject: more double information


Please tell us how they are legitimate. You can't tell us they are legitimate until you prove it. Most of the sites with chat rooms/forums have been deleting comments, so that is not an important aspect. We need lots more info before we believe they are LEGITIMATE!

[cybertrax]

As stated in another thread, the law states that people are INNOCENT until proven guilty. Therefore, the onus of proof is on people such as Matrix Watch members to prove that these sites are illegal.

[Dreamer]

I read the email responces, and ignored the last responce here pretty much. Same old thing it sounds like.

Yes, it was an appropriatly worded question. If it was a legit operation they should have no problem defending themselves to get more business. Of course, if it was a legit operation, they could have told him to come back in another year, and while its still in business, the customer can see that they are legit. But wait, don't you need to sign up within the first hour usually to get a gift?

You can ask any legit operation that type of question and they will answer it for you. Hell, I asked a similiar attacking question to wellsfargo before I signed up. We got thru to the last step and I asked about opting out of stuff because I didn't want to receive spam, and I asked them about their privacy policy because I didn't want to do business with a place that sold me out. I think the person was a little shocked at my questions...I think i was probably the first person to ask such silly things, but after a few seconds she answered it appropriately.

In ANY business, more business is better. I thought you were a business person? My old boss didn't like me throwing people out of our business...even thieves. One thief would steal $100 worth of merchandise and buy like $10. When we finally cought on, my boss mentioned he did spend $10 so I shouldn't call the cops. Ok, my boss was a fool than. But I can defend any legit place I work in such a way that the consumers feel comfortable shopping where I am.

Even stock houses will tell you that no investment is safe that you can lose money. Ask them about losing money every other place and they'll be honest with you to try to win your business.

Wait, i forgot...that matrix site was completely right, and max was breaking a law by asking a question

[Dreamer]

1. No legimitate investment venture can promise to double your money. At best, they can offer CDs, or other items of a fixed interest over a period of time. But the way they can offer you a fixed interest because you are lending them the money so they can lend it elsewhere for a higher interest rate. Most legimite investment places will tell you there is a risk.

2. Any investment place does something with your money. They lend it to others, or they make your money work for them. What exactly do these sites do with your money? Oh, thats right...they pay off other places.

[concerned]

As stated in another thread, the law states that people are INNOCENT until proven guilty. Therefore, the onus of proof is on people such as Matrix Watch members to prove that these sites are illegal.

Here we go again with this clown. This isn't a legal question. This person came here and told us that a particular site was legitimate. I assume he is telling us this because he doesn't want us to mess with it. If he wants to state that it is legitimate, then he needs to prove it. Otherwise we will assume it isn't. Any site that is legitimate should have no problem with that, but you seem to have a problem with it. Why? Is it because you are affraid we will be right again?

Oh, and by the way, if you are going to continue to use legal talk, then why do you say it is up to Matrix Watch to prove it. Shouldn't it be up to the courts and lawmakers? If you are an expert on American laws, even though you don't even live here, then you should know that a website doesn't need to prove ANYTHING to you, and has the right according to those very laws to speak as they wish. It is called freedom of speach.

[numbersman]

ymmss is the first doubler program and has been successful in paying over $43 million US to it's members. Empowerism is probably the second most popular and has paid over $6 million US to it's members. After different companies saw the success of ymmss early this year, more and more companies started copying them. Most people unhappy with money doublers are not people who joined groups like ymmss and empowerism but the less efficient companies like Easy Chair Club who can't handle the growth or groups who just who use the concept to get peoples money and run. Money doublers have the great marketing advantage over similar style systems that the first third of the customers have been paid and a good percentage of those third are happy to give testimonies of how great the system is. Over $50 million has been paid out in just the two top companies in less than a year. Judging by the staggering growth of these systems, if they are illegal than groups who want to keep them accountable better work fast or there will be losses in the billions.

[concerned]

And how do you know that they paid out that much money? Is it because they post it on their website? That wouldn't be a way to know for sure. Almost all companies like that would offer their annual reports with all their accounting figures. If they have one, which I doubt, then I would be interested in reading it over.

I have a business where I sell bubble gum. I made 3 trillion dollars this year. Do you believe me? If you do, then you are dumb. If you don't, why not, according to you, if I post a number on a website, it must be true.

[numbersman]

I don't know anything about ymmss. I do know that empowerism has been around for many years and is considered within the mlm industry by many to have a great reputation. They have very good teaching techniques. I was considering joining empowerism earlier this year because I was referred it by a different mlm company that I had been with for eighteen months. I was just about to join the company and then they added the RSVP credits to their line-up. I spent the last few months watching Empowerism and I have not seen any evidence that they have unhappy customers that groups like Easy Chair Club have. I watched that their cycles have moved from a few days in May to around 89 today. I watched Empowerism's traffic through alexa.com and it doesn't appear to show the kind of shape that a disappointing program does. I know from experience that I haven't lost money on money doublers. I don't see any evidence that Empowerism has misled people in what they say has happenned in the numbers of people being paid. Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't seen any evidence that members aren't being paid.

[ycchen]

May be you can suggest to the Empowerism CEO to list her million dollar company on Nasdaq, then we will know exactly how much they earn or give away :D

YMMSS seems pretty successful in mobilize their members in recruiting new members. Probably we can start a new thread about it. If the number is correct, it would probably be the one of the biggest matrix/doubler on the internet.

numbersman, thanks for bring all these information to matrixwatch. Please continue to keep us posted on all these big and "successful" matrix/doubler programs on the market right now, especially those that claim to have given away million of dollars. :)

[numbersman]

Here's the only news article I could find on matrix doublers.

http://www.webpronews.com/ebusiness/smallbusiness/wpn-2-20041101ThewholetruthaboutDoublersTriplersCyclers. html

"If you play it smart you can have some fun."

I didn't expect that sort of advice from a news group. Does webpronews have a good reputation or are they linked with many scams. I know this site has many people against money doublers but why is it that I can't find any reports saying that money doublers are illegal?

[ycchen]

Yup, I saw that article. Most "Pro" and "Neutral" people still believe that "pyramid/ponzi schemes" are legitimate business. They don't care about fairness, all their tips are about how to rob others before you getting robbed.

The funniest thing is that all of them (early birds and latecomers) eventually got robbed by the con-artist -- the owner :(

[concerned]

I don't think that site has anything to do with the content on that site, which is too bad. I saw a link where you could submit any article that you want. Anyone can write an article and submit it. Doesn't sound like a very reliable source if you ask me.

[sisco50]

Yup, I saw that article. Most "Pro" and "Neutral" people still believe that "pyramid/ponzi schemes" are legitimate business. They don't care about fairness, all their tips are about how to rob others before you getting robbed.

The funniest thing is that all of them (early birds and latecomers) eventually got robbed by the con-artist -- the owner :(

Aren't you sort of contradicting yourself here? If most Pro and Neutral people believe that pyramid/ponzi schemes are legitimate businesses, why would they even think about fairness? Aren't legitamate businesses fair to all? People that share tips about how to rob people before they get robbed, do not think that these schemes are legitamate businesses.

I will never agree with that statement. You assume far too much and I don't believe you or anyone else posting at this site is that naive.

[ycchen]

Sorry, I don't quite get your point, sisco50. Can you elaborate a bit about your disagreement?

People that share tips about how to rob people before they get robbed, do not think that these schemes are legitamate businesses.Are you saying that the players at moneymakergroup knows very well that doublers/matrix/HYIE are not legitimate businesses?

I was just responding to the article that numbersman posted on this thread. The author's tips are almost identical to ASFx's tips on his own MMG forum.

IF the author or ASFx thinks that these pyramid/ponzi schemes are not legitimate, how could they give advice on how to play an illegitimate game? I will be shocked if ASFx comes over here and announce publicly that his forum is supporting "illegitimate businesses."

Therefore, it is safe to assume that ASFx MUST have thought that all these pyramid business on his forum are legitimate. You disagree? You think that ASFx is fully aware that he is promoting illegitimate businessess on MMG and he continues to do so? :rolleyes:

Ironically, ASFX seems to be the major winner of the pyramid game as he often claimed to be. Isn't that a conflict of interest? :rolleyes:

[ICMADMIN]

I work directly with the admin team of InternetCashMatrix.com

This nut job "MaxProfit" has never purchased anything from our company yet goes around the internet posting our emails. He was nothing more than a waste of time. His sarchasm from the go was not needed. And we would rather not have someone like this join our system.

He also agreed to our terms before writing the nast emails.
http://www.internetcashmatrix.com/terms.php

You can see in his letter that he is not a customer yet I guarentee you that can find not a single person that has been scammed by our company or website in any way.

We offer Quality website scripts and a cash gift/WebsiteScript Shop nothing more.
Taxes have also been paid on the earnings of InternetCashMatrix


Take a look at the "MaxProfit" Profile



InternetCashMatrix.com Stats For Member #118 - MaxProfit

First name S
Last Name Brown
StormPay E-mail maxximumprofit@yahoo.com


Account

Total Deposit $0.00
Trivia Prizes $0.00
Available Cash $0.00
Cash No Profit $0.00
Reserved Funds $0.00
Pending Withdrawals $
Withdrawals Done $0.00
Shares Purchased 0
-- Shares Cycled 0
-- Shares Not Cycled 0
Money Spent $0.00
Money Earned $0.00
Referral Income $0.00
Pending Earnings $0.00

MAXPROFIT HAS NEVER INVESTED A PENNY OR BOUGHT ANYTHING SCRIPTS FROM OUR COMPANY YET HE SOMEHOW BELIEVES THAT HE HAS BEEN SCAMMED. HE IS NOTHING MORE THAN A SCAM ARTIST.

READ HIS POST. THE ARE NO FACTS. YOU CAN PLAINLY SEE HE HAS NO COMMON SENCE. BTW>>>HE HAS SINCE BEEN BANNED

"MAXPROFIT" IS THE SCAM.

[MatrixWatch]

He also agreed to our terms before writing the nast emails.
http://www.internetcashmatrix.com/terms.php

You can see in his letter that he is not a customer yet I guarentee you that can find not a single person that has been scammed by our company or website in any way.

So, he is not a customer, but he agreed to your terms?

I don't know much about your "business", but I do know that just because you have terms does not mean that they are binding. You agreed to terms when you established an account here on our forums, and I could put a clause in there which states that when you agree to these terms you become my servant for a year. So, why aren't you cooking my dinner tonight?

Also, just because there is a product exchanged in the transaction, it doesn't make everything else you do legal. Look at the matrix sites... They are an illegal scam and U.S. payment processors are even being held liable for the damages they create. They were just selling ebooks, right?

Doublers are just another variation of the matrix sites, and everyone would be a few dollars richer is they didn't send them a dime.

[concerned]

I work directly with the admin team of InternetCashMatrix.com

Funny how you call someone that is questioning the legitimacy of your business a scam artist, but deny the fact that you are running a ponzi scheme, making you a true scam artist. Why is there a double standard with you on this point?

This nut job "MaxProfit" has never purchased anything from our company yet goes around the internet posting our emails.

Why does someone need to buy something from you before they post your emails? I never heard that one before. Maybe it is in your terms of service.

Is this it?

Section X, Subsection Y, Paragraph Z states that you must purchase a spot in our illegal ponzi scheme before you can post our emails.


His sarchasm from the go was not needed. And we would rather not have someone like this join our system.

First of all, let me get this one straight. I thought matrix sites were all about buying items. If that were true, then wouldn't it be called a store instead of a system? Also, someone has asked you a question about the legitimacy of your program, and because of that you don't want him to join your "system". I really don't understand what your reasoning is.

Oh, it almost slipped my mind. Silly me. I just got it. (Do you like my sarcasm?:))It is because it is detrimental to your business model to have someone that knows about your system. You would rather have people that wouldn't challenge you, because it is easier to scam people that are quiet, isn't it?

He also agreed to our terms before writing the nast emails.
http://www.internetcashmatrix.com/terms.php

So what!!! Your terms don't specifically state that you cannot sent nast emails, no matter what the word nast means. That doesn't really matter. What exactly did he violate in your terms by sending an email?

Maybe it is in Section X, Subsection Y, Paragraph Z, Number 2: You shouldn't ask questions about our "system" because when you become knowledgable of a matrix site, it is harder to scam you.

But now that you mention your terms of service, let's examine them.

InternetCashMatrix.Com exercises no control whatsoever over the information or data passing through its facilities (including, but not limited to the Service, World Wide Web domain InternetCashMatrix.Com, Internet server and Internet backbone).

It is good to know that you will never protect people's information. Most internet sites practice protecting information, yet you specifically state that you will not control any information at all, therefor allowing anyone to take that information. Wow, your site is safe. In fact this is an example of exactly how well you guard people's information.

Take a look at the "MaxProfit" Profile



InternetCashMatrix.com Stats For Member #118 - MaxProfit

First name S
Last Name Brown
StormPay E-mail maxximumprofit@yahoo.com


Account

Total Deposit $0.00
Trivia Prizes $0.00
Available Cash $0.00
Cash No Profit $0.00
Reserved Funds $0.00
Pending Withdrawals $
Withdrawals Done $0.00
Shares Purchased 0
-- Shares Cycled 0
-- Shares Not Cycled 0
Money Spent $0.00
Money Earned $0.00
Referral Income $0.00
Pending Earnings $0.00


You later state that there is a 180 day guarantee that says if you don't cycle in 180 days, you will get some sort of refund, but later say that there is no guarantee when you cycle. Can you explain how you can guarantee to cycle in 180 days but not guarantee when you will cycle? Seems like you contradict yourself.

The Service may be used for lawful purposes only.

Can you explain what is lawful about participating in a ponzi scheme?

DO NOT OVER SPEND FROM YOUR BUDGET:
Please give to this program an honest try and do not invest all your funded money in one line only not keeping funds for the same day other launches. You must have a strategy accordingly to your budget. Never invest money that you cannot afford to lose.

Why would you have this in your terms of service? This is the most rediculous statement I have ever seen on a matrix site. How do you enforce this term? Do you ask every customer for their annual budgets so that you can examine them to make sure they don't over spend their budget?

[MatrixWatch]

This is so funny. :)

Good ones, Concerned.

[Believer]

Good to see someone else is getting bashed, maybe it will take some heat off me!!

Mine isn't even up and running yet and I'm getting hit from all sides by nay-sayers.

Now, don't take my avitar as a "hint" that I'll be running a scam when it opens in November.