Report matrix auctions here

[MatrixWatch]

Go ahead, spend two minutes and type in a classic matrix-site item into the eBay search entry. If you find any electronics, etc. in a "fishy" auction, then report it here. The "eBay Watch Dogs" will work it out.

I searched 42" plasma TV, this is what I found

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&query=42+plasma&cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&ht=1&from=R10&currdisp=2&itemtimedisp=1&st=2&SortProperty=MetaLowestPriceSort&BasicSearch=

There were a whole load of auctions here. If you click on the category links you can find even more.

Might be the same thing for the 50", but I'm not totally sure.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2936966301&category=317

Then there is, of course, those pesky overseas offers for matrix info:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&query=ps2+cheap&cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&ht=1&from=R10&catref=C3&currdisp=2&itemtimedisp=1&st=2&SortProperty=MetaLowestPriceSort&category0=99&BasicSearch=

I really am curious to see which site it is for
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2937317437&category=318

This one too
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2936789310&category=317

[MatrixWatch]

Is this a way to get around the eBay auction/PayPal freeze?

http://members.cox.net/bestmatrixsales/How%20To%20Buy.htm

[MatrixWatch]

Are you aware of this eBay seller?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2724580025&category=40161

[hello]

WatchDog, I am not sure if you will allow this to stay, but I was shocked when I came upon this ebay add. This is the Scam of all Scams. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3534802065&category=11328

If for any reason the URL does not work, just look up item number 3534802065 I have already reported him/her.

[hurley9192]

It's gone already...

[peterdragin]

hurley9192

By the way I checked our little 14 year olds seller ID and he has been kicked off Ebay. I will bet his Daddy's not to happy. I wonder if his name has been removed from the golfclub matrix ?

[hurley9192]

Actually, Gary Finnell still has 4 spots on the 5 cycle Callaway C4 matrix on rsient.com, but that list hasn't moved in weeks, so I doubt that he will be seeing any clubs.

None of rsient's lists have moved in weeks, not even one spot. I think our ebay auction demolition has ended their hopes.

Also, there haven't been any of the auctions going up for golf club matrices in over a week as well.

Now, we just need to get the more than 1000 people stuck on rsient's lists their money back...

Hopefully, Mr. Wilens will be successful...

[peterdragin]

Ya I check them out at least once a week but never find any, You cleaned them all out. Keep it up !

I am seeing about the same thing for the rest of the auctions, there are a few die hards still trying, but I get them before they have a chance to sell of the info.

I did notice this morning when I checked, Ebay has started their new auction format, they changed the page layouts.

Just keep hitting them where it hurts !!

[MatrixWatch]

peterdragin,
I have been considering the notion of coming into a partnership with eBay over these matrix auctions. If you would like to peterdragin, you have my permission to contact eBay on behalf of Matrix Watch. I would like to know if they could change their terms to have an eBay seller ID immediately canceled if they are selling a link to a matrix site. This consequence could further persuade the matrix sites to stop gambling their seller ID's on eBay matrix auctions.

Also, I mentioned the "eBay Watch Dogs" in the interview with the syndicated "Cyber Guy" show this morning. We'll see how the editing goes, but I think your actions will be featured in the showing. This interview will broadcast nationally and beyond by the end of the month. I'll keep you posted.

[peterdragin]

Well as of this morning I looked at ebay about 8:30 or so, I reported 12 auctions. I checked another category of auctions 2 hours later to see if there was any, none found so I checked the ones I already reported and they were already canceled!.

When you report as many as I did (not as many now) they seem to get them looked at right away. They either trust my judgment or they like some of the stern notes I add to the reports.

Like this one seller who just appeared, he has 3 seller ID's all selling the same thing word for word. The note I attached to the report form was, *Now this should be counted as negs against him !!! not his separate acounts, (RIGHT !) It will take to long to get him kicked off otherwize*


It would be nice to set something up with ebay but I don't think they would agree. You would be setting these sellers apart from the rest and Ebay couldn't do this for fear of discrimination against this one form of auction. I worked hard to get them to change the rules to disallow info auctions. I emailed them tons of times, made tons of sugestions in their sugestion box. Everytime thety had a questionaire on rules changes I filled them out, not only on my seller ID but a LOT of friends ID's.

They used to have a category for information but it was deleted, it was "Everything Else, Information Services" it is no longer in their listings.

[hurley9192]

yeah, that would seem difficult to monitor for ebay.

I can't wait to hear the piece on cyberguy since I am in LA and get KTLA.

Ebay is very cool about shutting down the auctions.

[concerned]

Here is kind of a new thing on Ebay.

A manual on "Internet Matrix Tips" on how to actually get items on a matrix site. For $5, you probably get a note saying that they are SCAMS and don't do it, OR you get advise from a Matrix owner that directs them away from other matrix sites, and sends them to their own sites, still taking them for their money.

Here is the auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3616648964&category=36199

[peterdragin]

I have reported him before, he claims to sell an ebook on the how too's of a matrix site. I haven't checked him much because he stopped for awhile.
The only rule he is breaking is he is listing the auctions in the wrong categories, and could get him for a complation also.


I'll look at him closer from now on, the only thing is he is a Power Seller and much harder to get kicked off. Ebay tends to look the other way on them unless they are realy breaking a bunch of rules.

[MysticX23]

i'm not sure, so can people sell "ebooks" on ebay?

[peterdragin]

Yes: If they list the auction in the books category, and you CAN NOT use ANY product name in the title, or description.

They call it (keywords). Say you do a search to look up a Playstation 2 and it finds your info auction.

It WILL be Canceled ! This is NOT ALLOWED, I find them and get them canceled..

It's real easy, and if you know how to use ebays search feature, you can do "special searches" they can pinpoit such auctions.

Sure some auctions I might miss but Very few, just go look at the auctions and see how many you see for info.

[search&destroy]

closing down these guys is actually fun!!

like peterdragin says just click & paste.....


add 5 more sellers to the NARU list, total 7

i know iknow im not as fast as peterdragin, but im having a great time.

[peterdragin]

Alright ! add that to the 275 = 282 kicked off ebay. I got about 5 more that should be gone by the end of the week, some guys just never give up untill they get kicked off.

I saw on Ezexpos forum that CatinaRec says she has a fool proof way to list auctions without them getting canceled, says she sent it to Ebay and they said it was alright to list. NOT ! Ebay doesn't do this. She says she is waiting for NVexpo to get going before she lists anymore auctions. I can't wait, I just can't wait to get her.

Got 46 auctions canceled on Yahoo auctions last week too. Rember Yahoo has about the same rules as Ebay.
If you need the link to report auctions on Yahoo let me know and I'll sent it to you, it's a little hard to find the right form to report them.

There is defintly not as many auctions now. The norm on a Monday morning you will see them all over, but the last few weeks there are almost none, 15 to 20 auctions is all I could find.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by peterdragin
Alright ! add that to the 275 = 282 kicked off ebay. I got about 5 more that should be gone by the end of the week, some guys just never give up untill they get kicked off.

I saw on Ezexpos forum that CatinaRec says she has a fool proof way to list auctions without them getting canceled, says she sent it to Ebay and they said it was alright to list. NOT ! Ebay doesn't do this. She says she is waiting for NVexpo to get going before she lists anymore auctions. I can't wait, I just can't wait to get her.

Got 46 auctions canceled on Yahoo auctions last week too. Rember Yahoo has about the same rules as Ebay.
If you need the link to report auctions on Yahoo let me know and I'll sent it to you, it's a little hard to find the right form to report them.

There is defintly not as many auctions now. The norm on a Monday morning you will see them all over, but the last few weeks there are almost none, 15 to 20 auctions is all I could find.

Well there is a way to advertise on ebay so you don't know....and that will follow ebay guidelines. Though, I don't bother with listing on ebay, I have instructed others about advertising on ebay.........

[peterdragin]

Keep Dreaming

Yes there is ONE way, but no one will see the auctions. If it is done ANY other way they are NOT ALLOWED !

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by peterdragin
Keep Dreaming

Yes there is ONE way, but no one will see the auctions. If it is done ANY other way they are NOT ALLOWED !

Trust me there is a way you haven't thought of that will have matrix sites gaining new customers......

[peterdragin]

Like I said keep dreaming !

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by peterdragin
Like I said keep dreaming !

I'm sorry I don't dream......lol

[matrixfriendly]

Deleted By Arzel

[Arzel]

Matrixfriendly,

No personal attacks.

[matrixfriendly]

What would you call what you are doing?

[mikv]

It looks like even the "matrix portals" are trying to get out of the game..ALL-MATRIX.COM is selling their whole website on EBAY. They are selling for $2000. I saw the ad this morning on another forum.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by peterdragin
Alright ! I saw on Ezexpos forum that CatinaRec says she has a fool proof way to list auctions without them getting canceled, says she sent it to Ebay and they said it was alright to list. NOT ! Ebay doesn't do this. She says she is waiting for NVexpo to get going before she lists anymore auctions. I can't wait, I just can't wait to get her.



Hate to break it to you but ebay will approve any auction before you list it. If you want or can email them and ask.. I have and I have also sent my auction description to them for approval first and they have eithr approved or denied them.

Also to just not make your day, There are ways to list auctions that arent in voilation of ebays policies. I have read completelt through there terms, policies, etc... To find out everything I could and this is what I found out..

1. you cannot sell e-book packages you do not have the copyright to. Ebays Guideline to this is:
If you are the copyright owner of the downloadable material that you are listing on eBay, make sure you say so in your listing!

If you get your copyright permission which all e-books tell you how then you can sell them on ebay. Now moving along

2. You cannot sell urls or information on how to get items for free outside of ebay.. But by ebays guidelines you can:

It is generally permissible for sellers to offer a bonus item to bidders within their listing as long as the following requirements are met:

In all bonus listings, the seller must state the exact price at which the bonus will apply. For example, it is not permissible to state, "I will throw in a state-of-the-art black and white TV if bidding reaches a high enough amount." It is permissible to state, "I will throw in a state-of-the-art black and white TV if bidding reaches $150."
In Mutiple Item Listings the seller must offer the exact same bonus item to ALL buyers. Multiple Item Listing rules require that all buyers receive identical items. Policy: Bonus listings in which the seller does not state the exact amount at which the bonus will apply and Multiple Item Listings in which the exact same bonus is not offered to all buyers are not permitted and will be ended. The Insertion Fee will be automatically credited for such listings.



So in order to list auctions on ebay that are not in voilation all you have to do is

1.. Get the copyright to the e-book package you are selling(site owners should have this anyway) post it very clearly on your auction the proof of your copyright.
2. Sell the e-book packages for the same price as the matrix site you are promoting or a little more to cover your seller fees if you want.
3. Make sure you list the item(plasma tv, laptop,etc...) as a bonus that the auction winner or buyer recieves for the designated price of the e-books.

How much more you explain is up to you.. I couldnt find any policies on ebay against adding names for free to a matrix list or a bonus list. This is the closest I could find: Pre-sale Listings are those that advertise the sale of items that are not in the control or possession of the seller at the time of the listing. These listings generally consist of items that are sold in advance of a delivery date to the general public.

eBay does permit pre-sales on a limited basis, as long as the seller guarantees that the item will be available for shipping within 30 days from the date of purchase (i.e., the day the listing ends or the date the item is purchased from a store front listing).

A seller who lists a pre-sale item on eBay must clearly indicate within the listing the fact that the item is a pre-sale item and a delivery date that indicates the item will be shipped by the 30th day from the end date of the listing. Additionally, this text must be HTML font size 3 (at a minimum). eBay will end any listing that is a pre-sale which does not include this information.

However since the item(plasma tv, laptop, etc...) is a bonus item and is free I cant find how this would apply to it.. This is only for the actual item that is for sale and the e-books are available instantly.. I couldnt find any policy stating when the bonus item had to be delivered.

Or in the case of the site im a member of there is no policy against me listing the jewelry packages they sale with the "free item" as a bonus... I am going to post this on more forums and I encourage other matrix promoters to do the same.. Let everyone in the matrix community know what they can do..

[uwantme]

Originally posted by peterdragin
Yes: If they list the auction in the books category, and you CAN NOT use ANY product name in the title, or description.



Again according to ebays policies you can list the product name in the title you just have to specify what it is.

You cant list

Ebook title and Alienware laptop

but you can list

ebook title and bonus free Alienware laptop

Or this is straight from ebays policies:

eBay Guideline:
If your title contains a word or phrase that does not seem to belong, make sure it is clear from your description why you included that word or phrase in the title.

[peterdragin]

You can not use a product name in the Title unless you are SELLING that product !!!

Other wise it's Misleading the bidder into thinking you do have that product for sale !!!!

People doing a search for a certin product do NOT want to find all these Info auctions, this is why Ebay made this rule. You need to go look at the rules more and READ them.

Then you also can report them foy keyword spamming by using a product name to lure people to your auctions.

There are 5 rules that 99% of people break when listing INFO. auctions and anyone can get them canceled.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-bonuses.html

Bonuses and Prizes

It is generally permissible for sellers to offer a bonus item to bidders within their listing as long as the following requirements are met:

In all bonus listings, the seller must state the exact price at which the bonus will apply. For example, it is not permissible to state, "I will throw in a state-of-the-art black and white TV if bidding reaches a high enough amount." It is permissible to state, "I will throw in a state-of-the-art black and white TV if bidding reaches $150."
In Mutiple Item Listings the seller must offer the exact same bonus item to ALL buyers. Multiple Item Listing rules require that all buyers receive identical items.

Keywords describing bonus items cannot be included in the title of a listing.


You forgot to READ the last line, Keyword spamming. auction canceled !!!

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by peterdragin
You can not use a product name in the Title unless you are SELLING that product !!!

Other wise it's Misleading the bidder into thinking you do have that product for sale !!!!

People doing a search for a certin product do NOT want to find all these Info auctions, this is why Ebay made this rule. You need to go look at the rules more and READ them.

Then you also can report them foy keyword spamming by using a product name to lure people to your auctions.

There are 5 rules that 99% of people break when listing INFO. auctions and anyone can get them canceled.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-bonuses.html

Bonuses and Prizes

It is generally permissible for sellers to offer a bonus item to bidders within their listing as long as the following requirements are met:

In all bonus listings, the seller must state the exact price at which the bonus will apply. For example, it is not permissible to state, "I will throw in a state-of-the-art black and white TV if bidding reaches a high enough amount." It is permissible to state, "I will throw in a state-of-the-art black and white TV if bidding reaches $150."
In Mutiple Item Listings the seller must offer the exact same bonus item to ALL buyers. Multiple Item Listing rules require that all buyers receive identical items.

Keywords describing bonus items cannot be included in the title of a listing.


You forgot to READ the last line, Keyword spamming. auction canceled !!!


Yes I know all of that, but there is still another way.........

[peterdragin]

tcb

If this is such a Foolproof way I would think you would be listing auctions to get your saging sales up.

[search&destroy]

then there r those vigilantes ......... thats always effective as far as ending the listing is concerned......


not that i condone such things ;)


BTW a completely unrelated topic but ebay does let u remove negative feedback .... dunno how or why ? anyone know ?

cheers

[peterdragin]

Yes they do, it's some place in the help section somewhere.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by peterdragin
You forgot to READ the last line, Keyword spamming. auction canceled !!!

Do you know what key word spamming is?

Its putting losts of name brands, items in your auction..

However you can list that you get a free Alienware laptop as a bonus. Thats not keyword spamming.

Keyword spamming would be you can get an Alienware Laptop, A Sony Vaio, Dell, Mac etc.... Its naming off lots of brands or items, not one as a bonus. I dont think its me that needs to read the rules more..

Also as per ebays rule you can post the bonus in the title as long as you explain what it is. For example you can say "2 14g Belly Rings & bonus free Sony Vaio! That doesnt break any rules, policies, and it is not key word spamming.

[Arzel]

You give the assumption that the buyer is guarenteed the free bonus, but as we all know that is not true. Not everyone will be able to get the free bonus. Plus you enter into the "Token" item arguement, which is not legal as far as the FTC is concerned, and I am sure that ebay will be sure to agree.

Peterdragin is correct, and these misleading auction which actively try to devcieve the customer will get you into legal troubles if you continue along this path.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by Arzel
You give the assumption that the buyer is guarenteed the free bonus, but as we all know that is not true. Not everyone will be able to get the free bonus. Plus you enter into the "Token" item arguement, which is not legal as far as the FTC is concerned, and I am sure that ebay will be sure to agree.

Peterdragin is correct, and these misleading auction which actively try to devcieve the customer will get you into legal troubles if you continue along this path.

Since it is a free bonus and the buyers not paying for it it becomes up to the buyer.. A responsible seller will explain the matrix program to a buyer and if the buyer is not interested be willing to mutually end the transaction. And to state again there is nothing in ebays rules that state how and when the bonus item has to be delivered.

Also im tired of hearing all of you say its not legal, blah blah blah, if you are not a lawyer then dont spout off legalities to me. As I have posted before, I do have a lawyer from the offices of Grimes & Reese who have 20+ years experience in this field for guidence.

[Arzel]

It is misleading, end of story. Quit trying to manipulate the rules to your benefit.

[uwantme]

How am I manipulating the rules? I am merely making sure we stay within their guidelines which is what this is all about right?


Oh yeah and its not just for my benefit its also for everyone else who is waiting ot cycle and now will have a better faster chance. Of course Im talking about the site Im a member of that doesnt have endless lists. Not all sites. Any extra advertsing you can get helps and for alot of matrix newbies they dont know how to advertise any other way. So instead of being barney bad butts and just trying to get their accounts terminated, I will help educate them on how to list within the guidelines..

[Arzel]

You don't own the bonus item, and by the method you give for posting the auction you imply that you do.

Your answer to this is that you will "Explain" the matrix to the customer so they know what they are getting into. You should not have to explain anything, it should be obvious to the customer, henceforth it is misleading.

[uwantme]

Yeah but if you allow them to gracefully end the transaction with no penalty if they are not interested" Remember you arent supposed to be buying the bonus item anyway" then I view it as no harm- no foul.

Now which by the way you said I was manipulating ebays rules not misleading the buyers, however I am still doing neither of the two.

[hello]

Lets face facts. People on eBay (the newbies) do NOT read the auctions. They see the photos and bid. I have seen this over and over again on auctions I have shut down. People clearly listed in their ad that people were NOT bidding on the items and that they would NOT be receiving the actual item but they would ONLY be getting a link to a website where they have a chance to get the pictured item for $25.00. Now, these auctions ended at over $170.00 US, if these people are bidding and are not reading what they are bidding on, then how are they going to understand the terms of the matrix? All in all matrixs are a scam for the people at the end of the lists who will never see anything. I do KNOW that there are a handful of GREAT matrix sites, but they are now suffering and no one is signing up anymore until the lawsuit is over.

[Arzel]

It is misleading, and you are trying to manipulate the rules. You fail to realize the cause and effect of your actions. Think about this. Ebay DOES NOT WANT your type of auctions in it's system. The rules were put into place to eliminate scams such as pryamid schemes and matrices. If you find a loophole it will only be a short while before that loophole is closed, and then you will be back in the same position.

You and others act as if your matrix idea is a fine idea, and you just need a legal way to use it. The truth of matter is that the matrix/ponzi/pryamid scheme is NOT a fine idea, and any loophole you find today will be closed sooner or later. Can you not understand this?

[poorme]

The truth of matter is that the matrix/ponzi/pryamid scheme is NOT a fine idea, and any loophole you find today will be closed sooner or later. Can you not understand this?

I think she truly deeply madly understand it. There is probably no way back so why he is stll so truly deeply madly persistent with his business.
.............................................
The matrix post in ebay should be found in ebook section not mixed with other items
...............................................

Peterdragon, I sent you an auction.

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by Arzel
It is misleading, end of story. Quit trying to manipulate the rules to your benefit.

There is nothing misleading about it. When you put Free Bonus XXXXX in the title. Most sites explain that this is not guaranteed.

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by Arzel
You don't own the bonus item, and by the method you give for posting the auction you imply that you do.

Your answer to this is that you will "Explain" the matrix to the customer so they know what they are getting into. You should not have to explain anything, it should be obvious to the customer, henceforth it is misleading.

Not everyone is capable of grasping a simple concept "henceforth" needing additional customer service.

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by hello
Lets face facts. People on eBay (the newbies) do NOT read the auctions. They see the photos and bid. I have seen this over and over again on auctions I have shut down. People clearly listed in their ad that people were NOT bidding on the items and that they would NOT be receiving the actual item but they would ONLY be getting a link to a website where they have a chance to get the pictured item for $25.00. Now, these auctions ended at over $170.00 US, if these people are bidding and are not reading what they are bidding on, then how are they going to understand the terms of the matrix? All in all matrixs are a scam for the people at the end of the lists who will never see anything. I do KNOW that there are a handful of GREAT matrix sites, but they are now suffering and no one is signing up anymore until the lawsuit is over.

How can you begin to sit on your soapbox(and I did say sit because you haven't a leg to stand on regarding this) and tell site owners that it is their fault that consumers are neglegent and do not read what is clearly stated. This is an absolutely ignorant way to argue this issue. I guess you also think that McDonalds should have been sued because their customer did not know that coffee was hot.

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by poorme
[B]The truth of matter is that the matrix/ponzi/pryamid scheme is NOT a fine idea, and any loophole you find today will be closed sooner or later.

Loopholes are a fact of life and they are legal until they are closed. End of Discussion. As soon as one closes another one will appear. Can't you understand that.

[mikv]

To say that loopholes are "legal" until they are shutdown has no logic whatsoever. A loophole doesn't exist in the matrix community. Site owners are not taking advantage of a loophole like you suggest. If you think that just because there is the ebook in the equation to "throw off the illegal portions" you are dangerously wrong. I would suggest reading more than just the "laws" regarding them because ANYBODY who has been in a court trial as the "defendant" knows that laws get bent as the trial moves foward. You would actually have to get into reading ACTUAL COURT CASES to be able to say for sure one way or the other. Read about the people convicted in Ponzi/Pyramid schemes. NOT just the laws that you think protect you. Those people thought the same as you until they were in court and subsequently thrown in jail for running a scam like that. Although we all won't know for quite some time what is gonna happen with the "lawsuit", as class action suits can be drug on for years and years even before they get into the actual trial. But answer me this....If the "loophole" exists, then why are ALL MATRIX OWNERS rewriting the TOS and FAQ pages ever since this lawsuit was brought up? If the "loophole" is there, then why isn't every site owner riding with the FIRST TOS they wrote? The fact is matrix owners don't even bother with the law, they just copy the next guy's TOS if it sounds "more legal" than theirs and they think they are safe. I like how the "matrix community" is trying to ban together to fight this, but in all reality; you will all be taken on an INDIVIDUAL basis for your actions. Especially if the lawsuit is won by Watchdog. The court won't just declare it illegal and let you all just shut down. You will ALL be tried and held accountable as an individual in any court of law. My advice, FORGET what the next man/woman says and FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF. Cause when it's all said and done, you will be facing the judge BY YOURSELF and you will be doing time BY YOURSELF. You may be on top of the world right now, but you won't be "on top" in the cell when you are becoming some guys' BIAATCH!

[concerned]

Originally posted by mikv
To say that loopholes are "legal" until they are shutdown has no logic whatsoever. A loophole doesn't exist in the matrix community. Site owners are not taking advantage of a loophole like you suggest. If you think that just because there is the ebook in the equation to "throw off the illegal portions" you are dangerously wrong. I would suggest reading more than just the "laws" regarding them because ANYBODY who has been in a court trial as the "defendant" knows that laws get bent as the trial moves foward. You would actually have to get into reading ACTUAL COURT CASES to be able to say for sure one way or the other. Read about the people convicted in Ponzi/Pyramid schemes. NOT just the laws that you think protect you. Those people thought the same as you until they were in court and subsequently thrown in jail for running a scam like that. Although we all won't know for quite some time what is gonna happen with the "lawsuit", as class action suits can be drug on for years and years even before they get into the actual trial. But answer me this....If the "loophole" exists, then why are ALL MATRIX OWNERS rewriting the TOS and FAQ pages ever since this lawsuit was brought up? If the "loophole" is there, then why isn't every site owner riding with the FIRST TOS they wrote? The fact is matrix owners don't even bother with the law, they just copy the next guy's TOS if it sounds "more legal" than theirs and they think they are safe. I like how the "matrix community" is trying to ban together to fight this, but in all reality; you will all be taken on an INDIVIDUAL basis for your actions. Especially if the lawsuit is won by Watchdog. The court won't just declare it illegal and let you all just shut down. You will ALL be tried and held accountable as an individual in any court of law. My advice, FORGET what the next man/woman says and FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF. Cause when it's all said and done, you will be facing the judge BY YOURSELF and you will be doing time BY YOURSELF. You may be on top of the world right now, but you won't be "on top" in the cell when you are becoming some guys' BIAATCH!

In fact the word Ponzi came from a the name of Charles Ponzi, which these schemes are named after. He started the original Ponzi scheme, and if I remember correctly, he was selling STAMPS. You see, even the original Ponzi scheme included selling something.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by Arzel
It is misleading, and you are trying to manipulate the rules. You fail to realize the cause and effect of your actions. Think about this. Ebay DOES NOT WANT your type of auctions in it's system. The rules were put into place to eliminate scams such as pryamid schemes and matrices. If you find a loophole it will only be a short while before that loophole is closed, and then you will be back in the same position.

You and others act as if your matrix idea is a fine idea, and you just need a legal way to use it. The truth of matter is that the matrix/ponzi/pryamid scheme is NOT a fine idea, and any loophole you find today will be closed sooner or later. Can you not understand this?

No what you dont seem to understand is that no where has it been ruled that any of these sires are illegal matrix/ponzi/pryamid schemes. and Like i stated before until you show me a law degree I dont want to hear nothing out of you about it. I have attained the legal resources of Grimes & Reeses who have 20+ years of experience in this feild for guidence.

I have a pretty good idea what I am doing and what I am allowed to do..

Why dont you quit what you keep accusing us of and pushing yor opinions on everyone.. In all of the matrix type auctions i have done for sites in the past year and its been over 100 auctions I have had way way more happy buyers than I have had unhappy ones.

[concerned]

Originally posted by uwantme
No what you dont seem to understand is that no where has it been ruled that any of these sires are illegal matrix/ponzi/pryamid schemes. and Like i stated before until you show me a law degree I dont want to hear nothing out of you about it. I have attained the legal resources of Grimes & Reeses who have 20+ years of experience in this feild for guidence.

I have a pretty good idea what I am doing and what I am allowed to do..

Why dont you quit what you keep accusing us of and pushing yor opinions on everyone.. In all of the matrix type auctions i have done for sites in the past year and its been over 100 auctions I have had way way more happy buyers than I have had unhappy ones.

The name of your legal resource sounds fishy. Are you sure they aren't called Crimes & Reasons? Maybe that is what they specialize in.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by mikv
The court won't just declare it illegal and let you all just shut down. You will ALL be tried and held accountable as an individual in any court of law. My advice, FORGET what the next man/woman says and FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF. Cause when it's all said and done, you will be facing the judge BY YOURSELF and you will be doing time BY YOURSELF. You may be on top of the world right now, but you won't be "on top" in the cell when you are becoming some guys' BIAATCH!

You are very very wrong my friend. First if watchdog wins his case then matrix systems are only deemed "illegal" in CA. Each state after words have to delcare them illegal. Second after a state does declare them illegal They DO ALLOW a grace period for owners to close up shop. In fact most companies will recieve notice from the attorney general warning them that what they are doing is illegal and giving them a chance to close. I read this on a government website. Third anyone that actually gets charged with anything will only get a misdermeaner charge which will not carry jail time.

and back to your original speech about terms and conditions most are changing because you have too to keep up with todays society. Most sites that start out dont obtain a lawyer or even counciling. After they have been open for a while some sites do or just from their gathered experience they understand they now need more explicit TOSs so they update. Just like any other business, company, etc thats just starting out. As they grow they change.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by concerned
The mane of your legal resource sounds fishy. Are you sure they aren't called Crimes & Reasons? Maybe that is what they specialize in.

Do you realize how immature this sounds? Why is it so hard for all you to do your research? If the name sounds familiar its probably because you heard them on the MSNBC story from ezexpo: http://www.msnbc.com/news/862999.asp

Steven A. Richards, a lawyer who represents multi-level marketing companies for Grimes & Reese in Idaho Falls, Idaho, said there often aren’t clear legal tests for Ponzi schemes. But if the product sold has no value or very little value, and consumers wouldn’t buy it without the attached free gift, the scheme probably runs afoul of federal and state laws.
“Are people who are paying $100 really getting something of value in return for that $100, or is it some means to disguise the scheme, that’s the question,” Richards said.


They are helping me build my site so its right. Hence the body jewelry i will be selling. Here is their website: http://www.mlmlaw.com

They cost $1000 to be put on retainer and charge $250 an hour for their services. Why dont you and the others try using them or someone to at least help back up your claims.

[Arzel]

By uwantme:
Why dont you quit what you keep accusing us of and pushing yor opinions on everyone.. In all of the matrix type auctions i have done for sites in the past year and its been over 100 auctions I have had way way more happy buyers than I have had unhappy ones.
How many of these customers actually recieved the item they were hoping to cycle? Just because they were happy when they thought they were getting an unbelievable deal does not mean that they are happy now.

Steven A. Richards, a lawyer who represents multi-level marketing companies for Grimes & Reese in Idaho Falls, Idaho, said there often aren’t clear legal tests for Ponzi schemes. But if the product sold has no value or very little value, and consumers wouldn’t buy it without the attached free gift, the scheme probably runs afoul of federal and state laws.
“Are people who are paying $100 really getting something of value in return for that $100, or is it some means to disguise the scheme, that’s the question,” Richards said.

This totally describes why the majority of matrix sites are illegal, not quite sure how you can use it in your case. Also, I know you have been touting these piercings that cost only $0.15 and then charge $30.00 for them on your matrix site (which really is not a matrix site so stop calling it that). I hate to be the one to tell you this, but there is NO WAY that the GENERAL public would pay $30 for those piercings. Our economy just does not work that way. If you sell them for $30 on your site to people without a gift (you know those that sign up after the slots fill up) someone else could just sell them for half price all the time or less.

You really need to do some more business research, because your idea just will not work. I have been involved in business analysis for over 10 years, and that kind of margin just does not exist unless the item being sold is UNIQUE, as in artistic, one of a kind type stuff. Very trendy or new items and possible collector type items can also fall into this category. Items which are initially very cheap do not fall into this classification. Most businesses run on profit margins of 5% to 10% after all expenses are calculated. And being on a wholesale list is not going to make a difference either.

There is another way to get those kinds of margins though, and that is selling counterfiets. An 18 year old kid in MN just this week was arrested and charged with selling counterfiet Oakley sunglasses. He brought in $1,000,000 in a little over a year. He is looking at 5 years in jail

[search&destroy]

U pro matrix guys r entitled to ur beliefs but .......

I believe (& so do a lot of people who have been burnt) that u r illegal, u must be & WILL be shut down

I know we cannot completely stop cancer from spreading either .... but we can kill the cancerous cells .....

And just like cancer cells u have been targeted ..... SEARCH & DESTROY

[uwantme]

Originally posted by Arzel
Also, I know you have been touting these piercings that cost only $0.15 and then charge $30.00 for them on your matrix site (which really is not a matrix site so stop calling it that). I hate to be the one to tell you this, but there is NO WAY that the GENERAL public would pay $30 for those piercings. Our economy just does not work that way. If you sell them for $30 on your site to people without a gift (you know those that sign up after the slots fill up) someone else could just sell them for half price all the time or less.

You really need to do some more business research, because your idea just will not work. I have been involved in business analysis for over 10 years, and that kind of margin just does not exist unless the item being sold is UNIQUE, as in artistic, one of a kind type stuff. Very trendy or new items and possible collector type items can also fall into this category. Items which are initially very cheap do not fall into this classification. Most businesses run on profit margins of 5% to 10% after all expenses are calculated. And being on a wholesale list is not going to make a difference either.

There is another way to get those kinds of margins though, and that is selling counterfiets. An 18 year old kid in MN just this week was arrested and charged with selling counterfiet Oakley sunglasses. He brought in $1,000,000 in a little over a year. He is looking at 5 years in jail


I have done my business research and if you visit your local tattoo or peircing shop you will see how much they sell for.. I will go to one of my local ones and see if they will let me take a pic of their prices for you. They sell them for $30 I plan on selling them for around $15 or $20 on my site which is quite a deal. Also if you read through the past posts you will see where I had a conversation with another member about their peircings and they even said the price was a good deal and they paid a whole lot more than that for their tongue ring. Bottom line is you dont know what the public will pay, I personally dont think you know what you are talking about and I also personally think you just dont my site to work. You are the only negative voice I have heard on here about it. Besides that whether or not my site will work is really none of your business. As long as it is legal, whether or not it works is really my problem now isnt it?

I also dont get your point about counterfits.. One I have never even heard of counterfit body jewelry since you cant buy like oakly or gucci tongue rings or at least not to my knowledge. So that scenerio doesnt make a bit of sense nor do I see how it even applies.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by search&destroy
U pro matrix guys r entitled to ur beliefs but .......

I believe (& so do a lot of people who have been burnt) that u r illegal, u must be & WILL be shut down

I know we cannot completely stop cancer from spreading either .... but we can kill the cancerous cells .....

And just like cancer cells u have been targeted ..... SEARCH & DESTROY

Wow... someone really needs a day job here....

[mikv]

So your logic about matrix sites is that "even if they are deemed illegal in the lawsuit, that is only in the state of California". You are more lost than I thought you were. Like I said before, check ACTUAL COURT CASES and see that when it comes to Ponzi/Pyramid/Lottery or whatever scheme you try to run, the BORDERS ARE ENDLESS. You're telling me that the long arm of the law won't reach you cause you aren't in California? You fail to realize that when you buy into a matrix site, and you go and post your own ads and help spread the word about it, you are making yourself an "accessorie" to the scheme. They can take you down along with the owner NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE. You matrix supporters really need to stop "reaching" and start "reading". Read more than just the codes and laws, read the actual cases and see how quickly the law can be manipulated and turned against you. It doesn't matter if the case is tried in Cali or New York or Timbuktu, if it is deemed illegal, your "grace period" is determined on the extent that you broke the law. Your lawyers or attorneys are not telling you the whole story because you haven't even opened your site yet, once you do I can guarantee their story will change. It's easy to talk about it, but when you actually see it, you may be breaking more laws than even the attorneys realized. I suggest you open your site and quit BS'n the situation. It's obvious you are more skeptical than you say in these forums, otherwise you would be up and running by now. It does not take a rocket scientist to open a site or to learn quickly if it is within the law or not. BOOST YOUR KNOWLEDGE! As well you talk about matrix sites like they are run AS ACTUAL BUSINESSES, which is NOT the case. Your argument only holds water if you are a LICENSED BUSINESS and who in their right mind is gonna get a business license to SELL EBOOKS. You are so off base and you even have attorneys helping. Although you say you are selling Jewelery or whatever,you will fail, and you will fail fast! Lastly if Matrix sites are deemed illegal in California it will be proven by laws ALREADY IN PLACE. It will NOT be a BRAND NEW LAW that states they are illegal, and EVERY state already has the SAME LAWS regarding these schemes. So your argument about every state has to PASS THE SAME LAW is ludicrous.

[concerned]

Here is a case that is on the FTC website. This is the complaint part of the case.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/06/sky.htm


Here is what happened to them.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/03/skybiz.htm


In this case, they were selling an "e-Commerce Web Pak," which sounds a lot like an "Ebook", in the fact that they are both pretty much worthless. As you can see, even if you are selling something that you consider of value, it is still against the law.

[Arzel]

uwantme,

I am not saying that you did no research, but the laws of supply and demand will play them selves out. It is part of business. If it really only costs you $0.15 for a tongue stud then they are probably not worth much more than that. If they are selling them for more than that at a piercing studio they are probably of a better quality metal or material, or it includes the cost of the peircing.

Whether your business suceeds or fails is not of a concern to me, your business model does not follow the matrix model which I am against (although I have not seen the specifics of your site or a similar site so I am taking your word on this).

Let us look at your business idea.

Sell cheap piercings for a large markup, and offer a "bonus" to the first specified number of people to buy piercings. Lines are cut at specific points to eliminate the endless chain aspect of the list.

It is always important to analysis all reasonable outcomes from and asign probabilities to those outcomes if possible to determine if the risk involved is worth the possible outcome.

Outcomes

1. Customers buy into your lists, which are cut off at a specific point. Through word of mouth and other advertising new customers purchase your piercings because they are reasonably priced compared to the local piercing sites, and becuase of other intagibles which are undefined at this point. (Business reputation, customer service, competition from other businesses).

This outcome is what you are basing your business, and it has a favorable outcome.

2. Customers buy into your lists, but when the lists are cut off new customers decide to go elsewhere for their priecings becuase their local shop has the same or better for the same or roughly the same cost. (Many of these customers will have a personal relationship with their local shop because they know the owner, or the person who did their piercing, and it will be difficult to simply lure them away).

3. Customers buy into your lists, but under outcome 1, additional sites open up because of your success they undercut your prices or offer bigger and better gifts.

4. Local piercing shops aware of online studs and piercings change thier policy such that the piercing will cost the same regardless if the customer buys the piercing from them or brings in their own piercing. (Bowling pro shops work on a similar aspect becuase they were losing sales to internet sites.) This will limit your business to people that do not need an actual piercing, but only the stud or whatever.

5. The reason your piercings are so cheap to you is because they are plated metals, or inferior products, and the largest demand is for solid metal studs or piercings.

There are probably some other outcomes as well, but you get the picture.

I don't think your business will work because of possible outcomes 2 and 3, and I would put the probability of either or both happening at about 50%

I only mentioned the counterfeit aspect becuase there is a lot of that going on, and that is one of the ways people can make easy money. I was not implying that you were planning on doing so, and agree that counterfiet studs are probably not a big business as there probably is not much of a trademark type of issue on these items.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by mikv
So your logic about matrix sites is that "even if they are deemed illegal in the lawsuit, that is only in the state of California". You are more lost than I thought you were. Like I said before, check ACTUAL COURT CASES and see that when it comes to Ponzi/Pyramid/Lottery or whatever scheme you try to run, the BORDERS ARE ENDLESS. You're telling me that the long arm of the law won't reach you cause you aren't in California? You fail to realize that when you buy into a matrix site, and you go and post your own ads and help spread the word about it, you are making yourself an "accessorie" to the scheme. They can take you down along with the owner NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE. You matrix supporters really need to stop "reaching" and start "reading". Read more than just the codes and laws, read the actual cases and see how quickly the law can be manipulated and turned against you. It doesn't matter if the case is tried in Cali or New York or Timbuktu, if it is deemed illegal, your "grace period" is determined on the extent that you broke the law. Your lawyers or attorneys are not telling you the whole story because you haven't even opened your site yet, once you do I can guarantee their story will change. It's easy to talk about it, but when you actually see it, you may be breaking more laws than even the attorneys realized. I suggest you open your site and quit BS'n the situation. It's obvious you are more skeptical than you say in these forums, otherwise you would be up and running by now. It does not take a rocket scientist to open a site or to learn quickly if it is within the law or not. BOOST YOUR KNOWLEDGE! As well you talk about matrix sites like they are run AS ACTUAL BUSINESSES, which is NOT the case. Your argument only holds water if you are a LICENSED BUSINESS and who in their right mind is gonna get a business license to SELL EBOOKS. You are so off base and you even have attorneys helping. Although you say you are selling Jewelery or whatever,you will fail, and you will fail fast! Lastly if Matrix sites are deemed illegal in California it will be proven by laws ALREADY IN PLACE. It will NOT be a BRAND NEW LAW that states they are illegal, and EVERY state already has the SAME LAWS regarding these schemes. So your argument about every state has to PASS THE SAME LAW is ludicrous.

First of all I think you need to read all of my posts, before you open your mouth.

this post of yours is so immature, unfounded, and so completely unessacery in its personal attack that Im not going to even waste my time trying to explain somthing to someone like you. And I do mean that in the baddest way possible I just cant say what I really think and stay in the rules of this forum..... Anyone can read my previous posts to see my site and my points have merits and will work....

[uwantme]

Originally posted by Arzel
uwantme,

I am not saying that you did no research, but the laws of supply and demand will play them selves out. It is part of business. If it really only costs you $0.15 for a tongue stud then they are probably not worth much more than that. If they are selling them for more than that at a piercing studio they are probably of a better quality metal or material, or it includes the cost of the peircing.

Whether your business suceeds or fails is not of a concern to me, your business model does not follow the matrix model which I am against (although I have not seen the specifics of your site or a similar site so I am taking your word on this).

Let us look at your business idea.

Sell cheap piercings for a large markup, and offer a "bonus" to the first specified number of people to buy piercings. Lines are cut at specific points to eliminate the endless chain aspect of the list.

It is always important to analysis all reasonable outcomes from and asign probabilities to those outcomes if possible to determine if the risk involved is worth the possible outcome.

Outcomes

1. Customers buy into your lists, which are cut off at a specific point. Through word of mouth and other advertising new customers purchase your piercings because they are reasonably priced compared to the local piercing sites, and becuase of other intagibles which are undefined at this point. (Business reputation, customer service, competition from other businesses).

This outcome is what you are basing your business, and it has a favorable outcome.

2. Customers buy into your lists, but when the lists are cut off new customers decide to go elsewhere for their priecings becuase their local shop has the same or better for the same or roughly the same cost. (Many of these customers will have a personal relationship with their local shop because they know the owner, or the person who did their piercing, and it will be difficult to simply lure them away).

3. Customers buy into your lists, but under outcome 1, additional sites open up because of your success they undercut your prices or offer bigger and better gifts.

4. Local piercing shops aware of online studs and piercings change thier policy such that the piercing will cost the same regardless if the customer buys the piercing from them or brings in their own piercing. (Bowling pro shops work on a similar aspect becuase they were losing sales to internet sites.) This will limit your business to people that do not need an actual piercing, but only the stud or whatever.

5. The reason your piercings are so cheap to you is because they are plated metals, or inferior products, and the largest demand is for solid metal studs or piercings.

There are probably some other outcomes as well, but you get the picture.

I don't think your business will work because of possible outcomes 2 and 3, and I would put the probability of either or both happening at about 50%

I only mentioned the counterfeit aspect becuase there is a lot of that going on, and that is one of the ways people can make easy money. I was not implying that you were planning on doing so, and agree that counterfiet studs are probably not a big business as there probably is not much of a trademark type of issue on these items.

Why is the basics of business so hard for everyone to understand? Every store, business, company, etc gets their merchandise from wholesalers and pay pennies on the dollar. I have done my research and visited local dealers. They are the same jewelry, the same metal, even the same brands and makers and it does not include the cost of piercing. have you ever got anything peirced? Just curous cause around here it costs anywhere from $50-$70 just to get pierced in places like you tongue or navel and that doesnt even include the cost of the body jewelry.

I wil not be selling cheap knock offs or inferior products.

The other scenerios you mention are not of much concern to me. All business will have competition hoefully by the time that happens I will be a large enough business that it wont matter. Look at ebay it was something new and one of the first of its kind. Now there are hundreds of auctions sites but ebay remains on the top. Why? Because they were one fo the first and developed a good reputation before all the other sites started popping up. My prices will also remain lower then the prices offered in the local peircing shops and thats how I will maintain my edge on them. they cant make their prices to low or they will lose money remember they are businesses too and must make a profit to stay open. As with business some will fail and others wont. As long as I make a good business thats legal is really all that matters to me. If it does fail then I have learned a new life experience. If it doesnt fail then maybe one day I can own my own island...LOL

Bottom line is that I have faith, determination, goals, and the education nessacery to so this. Thats really all I need. Not the pessimistic views of others who want to try to bring you and your ideas down.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by uwantme
Why is the basics of business so hard for everyone to understand? Every store, business, company, etc gets their merchandise from wholesalers and pay pennies on the dollar. I have done my research and visited local dealers. They are the same jewelry, the same metal, even the same brands and makers and it does not include the cost of piercing. have you ever got anything peirced? Just curous cause around here it costs anywhere from $50-$70 just to get pierced in places like you tongue or navel and that doesnt even include the cost of the body jewelry.

I wil not be selling cheap knock offs or inferior products.

The other scenerios you mention are not of much concern to me. All business will have competition hoefully by the time that happens I will be a large enough business that it wont matter. Look at ebay it was something new and one of the first of its kind. Now there are hundreds of auctions sites but ebay remains on the top. Why? Because they were one fo the first and developed a good reputation before all the other sites started popping up. My prices will also remain lower then the prices offered in the local peircing shops and thats how I will maintain my edge on them. they cant make their prices to low or they will lose money remember they are businesses too and must make a profit to stay open. As with business some will fail and others wont. As long as I make a good business thats legal is really all that matters to me. If it does fail then I have learned a new life experience. If it doesnt fail then maybe one day I can own my own island...LOL

Bottom line is that I have faith, determination, goals, and the education nessacery to so this. Thats really all I need. Not the pessimistic views of others who want to try to bring you and your ideas down.


I for one think your idea will work and shows promise.

Just be mindful that if your business is related to having a matrix in it, this site will not rest until they bring you down. But I know you already know this. Just keep it in mind......

[uwantme]

Originally posted by tcb1969a
I for one think your idea will work and shows promise.

Just be mindful that if your business is related to having a matrix in it, this site will not rest until they bring you down. But I know you already know this. Just keep it in mind......

Thats the ironic thing... They keep telling me my site isnt a matrix site and that I need to stop calling it that. They say that it doesnt even have a matrix concept in it and that Im bringing the site down by refering to it as a matrix site and while they are saying all this and how my site is legal and not a matrix site they are telling me it it wont work. So I finally come up with an idea that is legal and a good business structure and they insist it wont work not because it is matrix relate(because its not) but because I have to be selling cheap items, or some other business will take me over, or that I just wont have customers...

I mean come on and get off the high horse. It seems like no ones perfect but you guys and no one is capable of running a sucessful business just because you said so.. You cant attck my site for being a matrix so it seems like they are trying to attack it for everything else saying my items must be cheap and other things. It really is uncalled for and unfounded, and it really makes no sense to me the way people act on here....

But Thank You TCB....

[Arzel]

I never said your new site was legal, I said it wasn't a matrix site so quick comparing what you are attempting to do to the matrix sites which already exist.

By the actions of previous people everyone that enters the matrix will recieve a free gift when they cycle. That is not true with your idea therefore it is not a matrix. Since I have not seen your mystery site I have no opinion on it's legality.

The reason your idea will not work is that there is an inherant flaw in the matrix idea, and your modification of the idea does not completely remove the flaw. To say that my various possible outcomes are of no concern to you shows me that you did not think them through completely, if at all. Ebay was a first, and I would not compare what you are attempting to do to Ebay. There are already several sites selling body jewlery, and apparently already one or more sites doing business like you are saying. You idea is therefore niether original or unique.

But the real point with this forum is matrix sites, and since your site is not a matrix site could we please stop bringing it up as a defense of other matrix sites. So go start your site and quit telling us all how you are going to start a new site to revolutionize the matrix world.

[hurley9192]

exactly...

I think the only thing that could bring down your business is if others undercut your prices and you didn't have the best prices on the internet. The internet is very cut throat and people have no brand loyalty only price loyalty, so if you are higher than another site and someone won't get a prize for buying at your site, then people will go elsewhere.

$30 for a 15 cent piece of jewelry seems high and if you are not including the piercing service, it may be tough to charge that high of margin without giving away the prizes. So, the people who will receive something may be interested, but it may be tougher to sell the ones that aren't going to receive anything, which is where you are basing your additional profit to come from.

By the way, your site doesn't have the matrix nature to it where everyone will cycle, so it just seems like it is a new site that is giving away promotional items to encourage growth.

One of my biggest clients was buy.com...they thought that they could cut profits on some items and people would be loyal to their site, but that didn't work because a cheaper price on the other products was only a couple keystrokes away and they would buy the cheap, lower profit items from buy.com and go to another site for the higher profit items.

[search&destroy]

Originally posted by uwantme
Wow... someone really needs a day job here....

real funny....you spend hours replying to all these posts & Im the one who needs a day job !?(

u need to grow up, be a man, put in a hard day's work. Its better than being a FRAUD or a Ponzi !!

BTW I wasnt attacking u personally, but u did..... a little too defensive arent we ? Maybe because deep down inside u know its WRONG.

Anyways GOODLUCK with ur scheme or whatever u want to call it.
And now its my turn to get personal..... I cannot wait to flush u down the toilet! Thats where u belong.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by search&destroy
real funny....you spend hours replying to all these posts & Im the one who needs a day job !?(

u need to grow up, be a man, put in a hard day's work. Its better than being a FRAUD or a Ponzi !!

BTW I wasnt attacking u personally, but u did..... a little too defensive arent we ? Maybe because deep down inside u know its WRONG.

Anyways GOODLUCK with ur scheme or whatever u want to call it.
And now its my turn to get personal..... I cannot wait to flush u down the toilet! Thats where u belong.

U see this is where you need to read. I am not opening a matrix site... Can you or did you not read any of the posts. Thats why you attacks are unfounded. Second I am not a man I am a woman, who works very hard raising my child, supporting my husband, and various other things. I do my days work.

If you did read all the posts you will see that there is nothing wrong with the site Im opening. Its not a scheme, a ponzi, or whatever you want to call it. Im selling body jewelry- Oh no I think I hear the feds now...LOL

Anyway as far as flushing me I dont even know how or why you think you can. You wont even ever be able to touch my site.

And where are you at Arzel? You supposedly dont allow personal attacks, but your going to let this guy say these unfounded things or is it okay because hes on your side and only people who support matrices cant do personal attacks on you guys?

[Arzel]

I have a life outside the forums.

Search&Destroy, uwantme,

Please relax a little bit and debate in an adult manner.

Uwantme, please refrain from baiting. You are only asking for responses like those.

Wow... someone really needs a day job here....

Search,

As much as I agree with you, please refrain from retalitating.

Thanks,

Arzel

[MaxPower]

Exactly Arzel... no true problem with search... you ask for something... you just may get it. And don't be upset when it comes:)

[search&destroy]

Originally posted by Arzel
I have a life outside the forums.

Search&Destroy, uwantme,

Please relax a little bit and debate in an adult manner.

Uwantme, please refrain from baiting. You are only asking for responses like those.



Search,

As much as I agree with you, please refrain from retalitating.

Thanks,

Arzel

I will refrain from making personal remarks....just got a little carried away, sorry , I apologize.

I should know better than to behave like a kid !!

[Arzel]

Understandable Search,

I know I have become quite involved in discusions as well, so it is nothing personal.

[Arzel]

Peterdragin,

Here are some ebay auctions I have just reported, thought you might want to report them as well.

They first two are pretty good at trying to hide the matrix aspect, very deceptive.

3423715036
3423717320
2743120337
2743120381
2743120453
2743120484
3424024281
3424024290
3424024294
2743120961
2743120976
2743120995
2743121017
3423498846
3423926767
3423728669
3036266610

[search&destroy]

Arzel, no probs man, Im man enough to admit when Im wrong....

i dunno about peterdragin but Im on it ;)

[peterdragin]

Most auctions were already canceled on that list, two I already reported and the other two I reported.


Just a Update on Ebay stats..

20,368 Auctions Canceled as of today !!

197 waiting to be canceled.
I keep a list and check them later and then add them to the canceled list.

283 sellers Kicked of Ebay

NARUed !! is what it's called on Ebay.


Was checking around at different Forums and reading all the posts of people trying to figure a way to list auctions on Ebay without getting them canceled, man is it funny.

uwantme "aka" ( hotmoma2 & hotmommy) thinks she has a way, Nope won't work that way either.. !!!

You forget I own Ebay !!! At least that's what I read on someones forum, that's what they say about Peterdragin.. he owns Ebay !!!!!

[tcb1969a]

Yada Yada Yada

[uwantme]

Actually there is a way for me to post auctions and you cant do anything..

I simply list the jewelry packages the site im on offers, and then add the free gift. I dont even have to mention the free gift in the title. So many people view the jewelry its great. Plus when people do a search for title and description it still brings up the auction under the laptop, camera, etc because the free gift is listed in the description under all of ebays rules of listing the free gift...

So how are you going to close those auctions?

Im not selling information, Im selling the jewelry packages for the same cost as the site does. I dont have to list the free item in the title and there is no keyword spamming. Plus all of ebays listing policies of free gifts is followed since they are buy it nows for a specific price etc, etc....

your not really even close to stopping me...

[MatrixWatch]

uwantme,
Matrix Watch is not about singling out individuals like yourself, so when you said, "you're not really even close to stopping me..." it doesn't concern us. Yes, we are here to warn people against the matrix scheme, and help others get their money back from the sites they've already bought into, and we have been highly successful. However, I do not want to use our position of influence to single out one person because they taunted us on the forums. To do so would make our campaign too personalized and spiteful, thus compromising our integrity in the sight of high officials who are monitoring what we are doing here. If you have found some "secret" way to lure people into a matrix, and you want to taunt us with it, then you are just wasting your own time. You are not providing any substantial information to anyone in the mean time, and I am doubtful about whether you serve a productive role here.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by watchdog
uwantme,
Matrix Watch is not about singling out individuals like yourself, so when you said, "you're not really even close to stopping me..." it doesn't concern us. Yes, we are here to warn people against the matrix scheme, and help others get their money back from the sites they've already bought into, and we have been highly successful. However, I do not want to use our position of influence to single out one person because they taunted us on the forums. To do so would make our campaign too personalized and spiteful, thus compromising our integrity in the sight of high officials who are monitoring what we are doing here. If you have found some "secret" way to lure people into a matrix, and you want to taunt us with it, then you are just wasting your own time. You are not providing any substantial information to anyone in the mean time, and I am doubtful about whether you serve a productive role here.

Um....Watch Dog, you haven't been reading the forums lately have you? Quite a few of your followers have been stating, especially Peterdragon, how to get auctions closed down as well as this little bickering session between them and Uwantme on how Uwantme could not list an auction successfully on Ebay. That they would get it cancelled. Of course, why you all waste so much time worrying about cancelling auctions on ebay, is beyond me. Matrix Owners advertise in many other different areas and the ebay thing does not hurt the owners as much as you all think....but that's just my 2 cents.......

[peterdragin]

Ya then why are all the lists on matrix sites almost stopped ???

Your other means on advertising must not be so good.

hotmommy / uwantme if you haven't checked the 10dlaptop forum here is the lastest post on your (( You can advertise on Ebay thread. )) Jungleman didn't get it.


Posts: 28
Re: You CAN advertise on Ebay! Read How here!
« Reply #10 on: Today at 07:25am »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, well the bad news is my auction about the laptop got cancelled! eBay says they do not permit MLM schemes, and apparently me saying that you have to be put on a list implies that it is! eBay sucks..

I'd follow hotmommy's method, but what are we supposed to put for the auction title? I mean, who's going to search for eBooks on eBay, honestly?

Good news is that someone seems interested...

Goody ONE person is intrested! , one person for 250 plus Matrix sites, I can just see the lists growing LOL.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by peterdragin
Ya then why are all the lists on matrix sites almost stopped ???

Your other means on advertising must not be so good.

hotmommy / uwantme if you haven't checked the 10dlaptop forum here is the lastest post on your (( You can advertise on Ebay thread. )) Jungleman didn't get it.


Posts: 28
Re: You CAN advertise on Ebay! Read How here!
« Reply #10 on: Today at 07:25am »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, well the bad news is my auction about the laptop got cancelled! eBay says they do not permit MLM schemes, and apparently me saying that you have to be put on a list implies that it is! eBay sucks..

I'd follow hotmommy's method, but what are we supposed to put for the auction title? I mean, who's going to search for eBooks on eBay, honestly?

Good news is that someone seems interested...

Goody ONE person is intrested! , one person for 250 plus Matrix sites, I can just see the lists growing LOL.

And your point is exactly what..........

[peterdragin]

Stopping auctions on Ebay works ! tcb tell us how many new signups you have this month ???

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by peterdragin
Stopping auctions on Ebay works ! tcb tell us how many new signups you have this month ???

I don't remember, but my sales have gone down because of the amount of sites that are out there not because of the ebay thing. I didn't have anyluck with sales on ebay from the get go, I advertised other places, as I still am, though with around 300 matrix sites, competition is tough. It has nothing to do with you Peterdragin. I'm sure you have disrupted some sites sales, but not mine......

[search&destroy]

Originally posted by peterdragin
Stopping auctions on Ebay works ! tcb tell us how many new signups you have this month ???

Exactomundo !!!!

We fight the fights that we can fight.....We fight the fights that r worth fighting.....

For those who think that we have no life, it really doesnt take that long to close an auction. 4 clicks in all....if u r smart u will save all the item numbers into a file, go to ebay & then just cut & paste a bunch of them

peterdragin does it count against a seller if u report an auction that has already been completed ? or am i just wasting my time reporting past auctions ?? im not too sure coz i did see 3 sellers NARUed this way but then again it might have been coz they were reported by someone else.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by search&destroy
Exactomundo !!!!

We fight the fights that we can fight.....We fight the fights that r worth fighting.....

For those who think that we have no life, it really doesnt take that long to close an auction. 4 clicks in all....if u r smart u will save all the item numbers into a file, go to ebay & then just cut & paste a bunch of them

peterdragin does it count against a seller if u report an auction that has already been completed ? or am i just wasting my time reporting past auctions ?? im not too sure coz i did see 3 sellers NARUed this way but then again it might have been coz they were reported by someone else.

Well, I can tell you it still counts against a seller.....even if there auction has already ended.....

[peterdragin]

Originally posted by search&destroy
Exactomundo !!!!

We fight the fights that we can fight.....We fight the fights that r worth fighting.....

For those who think that we have no life, it really doesnt take that long to close an auction. 4 clicks in all....if u r smart u will save all the item numbers into a file, go to ebay & then just cut & paste a bunch of them

peterdragin does it count against a seller if u report an auction that has already been completed ? or am i just wasting my time reporting past auctions ?? im not too sure coz i did see 3 sellers NARUed this way but then again it might have been coz they were reported by someone else.

Report them anyway, it counts against them as 2 strikes, 4 and they are kicked off.

[peterdragin]

Originally posted by uwantme
Actually there is a way for me to post auctions and you cant do anything..

I simply list the jewelry packages the site im on offers, and then add the free gift. I dont even have to mention the free gift in the title. So many people view the jewelry its great. Plus when people do a search for title and description it still brings up the auction under the laptop, camera, etc because the free gift is listed in the description under all of ebays rules of listing the free gift...

So how are you going to close those auctions?

Im not selling information, Im selling the jewelry packages for the same cost as the site does. I dont have to list the free item in the title and there is no keyword spamming. Plus all of ebays listing policies of free gifts is followed since they are buy it nows for a specific price etc, etc....

your not really even close to stopping me...



If you check Keyword Spamming applys to the description also !!

[hurley9192]

uwantme...I still don't understand why you try and link on with the matrix connotation.

Your site seems to be just a legitimate business that is giving away gifts to the first X number of people that sign up. If you run an ebay auction and are just selling the jewelry and giving away gifts that are similar to a matrix site give away, but are just based on you giving it away to only a limited number of people and not all of them, then that doesn't make it a matrix site.

We are not out to close auctions for someone that is following the rules and giving out prizes, but if you run an auction that is advertising a cheap way to get a Plasma TV with the purchase of jewelry, then you are going against ebay policy and then have issues.

Believe me, as a small business owner and CPA, I'm all out for the small business owner and would love to see you succeed as long as you don't scam anyone like these matrix sites are doing.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by watchdog
uwantme,
Matrix Watch is not about singling out individuals like yourself, so when you said, "you're not really even close to stopping me..." it doesn't concern us. Yes, we are here to warn people against the matrix scheme, and help others get their money back from the sites they've already bought into, and we have been highly successful. However, I do not want to use our position of influence to single out one person because they taunted us on the forums. To do so would make our campaign too personalized and spiteful, thus compromising our integrity in the sight of high officials who are monitoring what we are doing here. If you have found some "secret" way to lure people into a matrix, and you want to taunt us with it, then you are just wasting your own time. You are not providing any substantial information to anyone in the mean time, and I am doubtful about whether you serve a productive role here.

Once again you are singling out matrix supporters. My coment was directed to peter who did single me out in his post:

uwantme "aka" ( hotmoma2 & hotmommy) thinks she has a way, Nope won't work that way either.. !!!


and then for several more after your post. I think you need to take your own members in check who are doing exactly what you claim they are not.......

[uwantme]

Originally posted by hurley9192
uwantme...I still don't understand why you try and link on with the matrix connotation.

Your site seems to be just a legitimate business that is giving away gifts to the first X number of people that sign up. If you run an ebay auction and are just selling the jewelry and giving away gifts that are similar to a matrix site give away, but are just based on you giving it away to only a limited number of people and not all of them, then that doesn't make it a matrix site.

We are not out to close auctions for someone that is following the rules and giving out prizes, but if you run an auction that is advertising a cheap way to get a Plasma TV with the purchase of jewelry, then you are going against ebay policy and then have issues.

Believe me, as a small business owner and CPA, I'm all out for the small business owner and would love to see you succeed as long as you don't scam anyone like these matrix sites are doing.

My site is still being designed and hasnt opened yet.. Your right my site is not in the matrix concept. However I am a member of several matrix sites and I will continue to promote them until I no longer have time to or until I cycle. I know you disagree with this but I do not see matrix sites as a bad thing. I enjoy doing them and since they have not been ruled illegal yet I will continue to participate until they are...

[uwantme]

Originally posted by peterdragin
If you check Keyword Spamming applys to the description also !!

Just describing the free gift in the description in not keyword spamming. If you say the free gift is a Vaio laptop in the description and then go into a little more detail about it thats not key word spamming.. Its only keyword spamming if I list several products, or several brands, etc.....

[peterdragin]

Keyword spamming is when you use a product name in the title or description to draw bidders to your auction with a search when you are not selling that product. Makes no difference if you are giving it away as a bonus or not.


Here's the Rule from ebay.

What is Keyword Spamming?
Keyword spamming is the practice of including brand names or other inappropriate "keywords" for the purpose of gaining attention or diverting users to a listing. Keyword spamming is unfair to members who may be searching for a specific item and receive search engine results of listings that are not selling the item. It is also a manipulation of eBay's search engine. Users often are confused and frustrated by such tactics. Certain uses of brand names may also constitute trademark infringement and could expose sellers to legal liability.

[Iceman]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3424276514&category=38122

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3424276602&category=38122

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3424276651&category=38122


All the same seller: 321comp

[peterdragin]

Thanks I missed them, I have is seller id now he won't sell anymore.

2 of his auctions look like the vigalantes got him so he won't get paid for them.

Most of the time when you see bidders with 0 feedback and they just made the user id it's normaly a fake name to get these scammers.

[hurley9192]

I reported this guy as well.

Also, I am not doing any vigilante techniques anymore...even though it was fun.