Have anybody heard of

[poorme]

Has anybody heard of any matrix sites that donate their money to support terrorist attack?

[hurley9192]

now there's a new idea...I doubt it because most of these people are get rick quick guys trying to survive without a job and don't have time to donate anything.

[MatrixWatch]

poorme,
Are you really aware of such sites, or are you just kidding around. If there was such a thing, it would fall into the lap of Washington D.C. within an hour. If you know the name of the site then please post it here.

[CurtXxX]

I think, Watchdog, he is joking. You can stop shaking uncontrollably now. :)

[poorme]

I asked the question with concern

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by hurley9192
now there's a new idea...I doubt it because most of these people are get rick quick guys trying to survive without a job and don't have time to donate anything.

Hmmm.....Ok....so now I decided to register on this site, though I am sure my posts will probably be deleted, but I have to put my 2 cents in concerning this statement.

This statement of yours Hurley9192 is unfounded. I am a Matrix Owner and I have a real job. Plus, I have made more money being a Matrix Customer than I have being a Matrix Owner. And most Owners will attest that they make very little money with their sites. I originally got into the Matrix ownership because I wanted to give people a chance of getting cheap electronics or getting cash back as a reward for being a customer because I wanted to help people not rip them off. Plus most people understand by reading the sites Faq page and TOS what they are getting into. There are only a handful of disgruntled people in the Matrix Community who want something for nothing. And as in every business there are liable to be some lawsuits put againts these business.

So in essence I object to your portrayal of Matrix Site owners as get rich quick guys. Also I do not find any justice being handed out here on this site. This is more of a Vigilante group than anything else.

Also to the one who opened this thread about donating money to Terrorist groups. Are you out of your mind? I for one being a Gulf War Veteran am appaled that you would make inferences of that being possible...

[CurtXxX]

Sorry then...my bad.

[poorme]

I admit that there are matrix sellers that have good hearts. However the nature of the matrix itself is cold-blooded type.
I still do not see whether opening the matrix can help poor people like Robin Hood. Many people who come later are prone to be losers.

I am out of my mind because of this crazy matrix world.

[poorme]

I wanted to give people a chance of getting cheap electronics or getting cash back as a reward for being a customer because I wanted to help people not rip them off.


May I ask you two questions?
1. How do you feel to take money from many people and give it to just a small group of people
For me, I was a matrix player and I stucked in lists,yet I feel very sorry for those who comes after me,expecting that they gonna lose hard-work money to other for free
2. What will you do when the lists stop?

Sincerely Your

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by poorme
I admit that there are matrix sellers that have good hearts. However the nature of the matrix itself is cold-blooded type.
I still do not see whether opening the matrix can help poor people like Robin Hood. Many people who come later are prone to be losers.

I am out of my mind because of this crazy matrix world.


Not to degrade anyone here, but if you know what you are doing in the Matrix Community, then you will be fine. Plus like I said most people know the risks. Also most people are capable of making a decision on what they do with there money. Unfortunately there will always be some bad apples in every business, but that is why you should do your homework first before buying into a Matrix site.

[poorme]

Not every people that made purchase fully understand how matrix works and how the matrix dooms to be.


"Good matrix apples shall gone bad sooner or later too." Nothing can stay forever.


Could you please answer my question about what will you do when the list stop? Is your answer is clearly stated in the agreement ?

Thanks

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by poorme
I wanted to give people a chance of getting cheap electronics or getting cash back as a reward for being a customer because I wanted to help people not rip them off.


May I ask you two questions?
1. How do you feel to take money from many people and give it to just a small group of people
For me, I was a matrix player and I stucked in lists,yet I feel very sorry for those who comes after me,expecting that they gonna lose hard-work money to other for free
2. What will you do when the lists stop?

Sincerely Your

Ok, well, it is like this and I can't make it any plainer. The people on my sites are purchasing eBooks or Desktop Wallpaper with that they get a spot on the list as a reward for being a customer. Your alls futile attempts to turn the Matrix concept into something it is not, is foolish. No one is guaranteed to cycle on my site, they are guaranteed that once the do they will receive there free gift. Also this is a Reward system not a lottery. People are rewarded for and encouraged to advertise to get more people to come to the site and purchase.

Also, though I hate comparisons, let's take for example Hilton hotels. If you purchase hotel nights you will get points toward a free stay or other types of free gifts. A lot of people that join the Hilton club do so wanting with each purchase those points so they can get something for free. It is a reward system.

Also take in consideration all of the insane areas you can invest in. For instance s state run lottery. Do you realize how addicting that is, yet more states are having lottery's. Why? Because it is in the best interest of the State. They have there hand in it. Not that it is moral or legal. I have wasted much money on lottery's and how about that. How about all those people who spend money on a lottery and get nothing in return, but a slip of paper for a chance in a million to win the lottery. That is the biggest scam in the world, yet because it is State run, we choose not to look at it that way.

Also to answer question 1 more directly, most people know the chance they take when buying into a Matrix site. So I don't think one way or another about it.

As far as question 2 goes. I have advertising campains to keep the lists moving, though I will admit, this group isn't making it any easier.....

[hurley9192]

It's a ponzi scheme.

These things are for people that don't want to spend full price on something, so they go around and open these lists and have their names at the top and then get other people to pony up the other portion of the full price.

It's a get rich quick "type" of scheme. Look at these lists, they are dominated by a group of people that are "insiders" and know when new lists open, so the same small group is getting in first on most lists because they stick together. Then someone comes along and dishes out their share and then sits on the list forever while others collect because they had the inside track to the front of the line.

Yes, I want to know as well, what happens to the other 95% or whatever is left when the list stops moving???

I guess they just pony up the extra cash for these scams.

And No, this site isn't like the Pro-matrix sites that will kick off all dissenting votes. All of Shelby's posts are usually kept on here and he hates Tim.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by poorme
Not every people that made purchase really understand how matrix works and how the matrix dooms to be.
so could you please answer my question about what will you do when the list stop?
Thanks


"Good matrix apples shall gone bad sooner or later too."

So why is that the fault of the Matrix Owner that the customer did not understand when the customer is instructed to read the Faq's and TOS. Further if they don't understand completely and have reservations about the idea, then they should email the owner and ask questions.

Also, there has been much debate as to what to do when a list stops moving, I won't close a list, but will open additional list and offer those on the stagnant lists to move to the additional lists so that they are spread out. Also, as stated on just about every site, there is no Guarantee that a person is going to cycle. They are foremost purchasing the item sold on the site such as eBooks and what have you. So to think that a site is obligated to refund a person because a list does not move or has stopped is ludicrous. Plus most site give a disclaimer that there will be not refunds and by purchasing they are bound by those terms......

[poorme]

Is it practical to move people to the new lists? How does it gonna make any difference ? You mean split the lists or just change the headline

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by hurley9192
It's a ponzi scheme.

These things are for people that don't want to spend full price on something, so they go around and open these lists and have their names at the top and then get other people to pony up the other portion of the full price.

It's a get rich quick "type" of scheme. Look at these lists, they are dominated by a group of people that are "insiders" and know when new lists open, so the same small group is getting in first on most lists because they stick together. Then someone comes along and dishes out their share and then sits on the list forever while others collect because they had the inside track to the front of the line.

Yes, I want to know as well, what happens to the other 95% or whatever is left when the list stops moving???

I guess they just pony up the extra cash for these scams.

And No, this site isn't like the Pro-matrix sites that will kick off all dissenting votes. All of Shelby's posts are usually kept on here and he hates Tim.

We will see if my post gets taken off....

But no this is not a Ponzi Scheme, and I wish not to try to convince you of that, since you already have your mind made up. Do you know, when I first came into the Matrix Community, I didn't make any money on certain sites. I knew what I was getting into and bought into the sites I felt most comfortable with. Plus I did much research on the whole idea. For I don't throw my money around foolishly. Yet I still made no money from two of those sites I initially bought into. But then I realized that some sites no what they are doing, and some sites don't so I started checking out other sites, and before I knew it I was making money. So to those who have lost some money on sites, get off of your bruised pride and try another site but do your homework first. Before long you will make back any money you have lost.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by poorme
Is it practical to move people to the new lists? How does it gonna make any difference ? You mean split the lists or just change the headline

Yes some sites have been known to take one stagnant list and split it into 3 or 4 or 5 other lists, with different items as the reward.

[hurley9192]

The problem is that with a lottery or Hilton reward system, the people that sign up later on have as much of a chance of getting something as those that were there earlier.

Your system doesn't work to reward people based on anything more than the early people are paid when the later ones pay in.

Classic ponzi scheme and that's why lawsuits are happening, just like when any organization goes bad. No one is suing Hilton or the State because they are taking advantage of people.

It's only when there is illegitimate business going on.

Also, your posts are all still here, whereas most sites, you would have been gone. We welcome opposing opinions and like the debating. You don't have to be with us to post here, just keep it clean.

[poorme]

Could you please name the sites that split the list please? I do not fully understand how this works?

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by poorme
Could you please name the sites that split the list please?

I will do research and see if I can find them, there are over 100 Matrix sites. Unfortunately I have a bad memory.....

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by hurley9192
The problem is that with a lottery or Hilton reward system, the people that sign up later on have as much of a chance of getting something as those that were there earlier.

Your system doesn't work to reward people based on anything more than the early people are paid when the later ones pay in.

Classic ponzi scheme and that's why lawsuits are happening, just like when any organization goes bad. No one is suing Hilton or the State because they are taking advantage of people.

It's only when there is illegitimate business going on.

Also, your posts are all still here, whereas most sites, you would have been gone. We welcome opposing opinions and like the debating. You don't have to be with us to post here, just keep it clean.

Ok, let me clarify some here. I have lost my points with Hilton, because I did not use them within a 6 month time frame. For which I did not realize but it is in there TOS which I should have read thouroughly. So I wasted my money on purchasing hotel stays for which I could have stayed at a cheaper hotel, but I wanted the points. Do you think I can sue Hilton? Nope, and why not? Because it is in there TOS.

Also as far as lottery's go you missed the whole point. More people get nothing than get something. Most of the time weeks upon weeks go by before one person out of the masses get any money. And where do you think that one person who wins the lottery gets the money from? All of those who paid in hoping they will win. It is the most legalized form of gambling there is? But why is it legal? Because the State benefits......

[poorme]

I'd better donate my money for the state benefits because it will be useful for a large number of people.intead of to just someone I do not know.

Is the time frame for matrix that long ( 6 months)

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by poorme
I'd better donate my money for the state benefits because it will be useful for a large number of people.intead of to just someone I do not know.

Is the time frame for matrix that long ( 6 months)

And how do you know that the money is going toward something useful? Because the State tells you so. I was addicted for awhile to the lottery machine. I lost countless amounts of money. So that someone else could benefit when they won the lottery and so the State could benefit when no one won the lottery.

Yet, I played for years in the lottery's, like a fool and won at most $150 out of all those years. In a couple months as a Matrix Customer, I won that amount and then some. So I will take the Matrix system over the lottery anyday. For I have more of a chance than I do at the lottery.

[poorme]

At least my money is well spent.

Very small number will succeed

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by poorme
Very small number will succeed. compared to those who lose

Just like the lottery......Hmm.....

[poorme]

Due to the lawsuit, that is why matrix is likely to be the illegal lottery ?????????

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by poorme
That is why matrix is likely to be the illegal lottery due to the lawsuit.


And why is it illegal, because the State does not have their hand in the money.....

We will just have to wait and see. Also Lawsuits does not mean a site is illegal, it just means someone was very disattisfied or many people were in class actions.

Also let me clarify. Lawyers do not care about any of you. They are in it for the money. Yet it is legal for Lawyers to do what they can to get money. Many of which are lower than most criminal, for they work the law into their favor for monetary gain.

Just like this rediculous lawsuit that is going to happen against the Fast Food Industry. Just lawyers trying to make a fast buck, and they are allowed to do this because they operate within the law. Just think about it. A lawsuit against the Fast Food Industry because they made Americans Fat and Unhealthy......Just another example of people not owning up for there own decisions and wanting big comany's to pay for it....Insanity is what I call it....

[poorme]

If there is no way to get a penny back, one still has to rely on attorney.

[poorme]

I have two Qs in the former site owner section. Could you please reply?

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by poorme
I have two Qs in the former site owner section. Could you please reply?

Sorry, I am working at my real job here at a hotel. Though some think Matrix Site owners have no real job.....So my responses will be slow..........

[hurley9192]

Your Hilton point is apples and oranges...

you at least had the chance to get your reward and it was based on you doing something...

a matrix site may not give you the chance to get a reward because there are too many people ahead of you.

What part of a matrix isn't a ponzi scheme?

The people that are first get paid when the later people buy in. The people that are too far out don't get anything. When you add people to a list and only take off a percentage of the people, there are some left hanging. Anyone who makes money off this site is being paid by someone that probably won't make any money. It's like everyone throwing money in a pot and the first in line gets some and then on down the list. If everyone throws in $50 and the people are allowed to take out $100, then half of the people get nothing...this is the best example of how your system works...people put their money in order and get to pull it out in order...however, they get to take out more than they put in, so at the end of the day, the people that were in late, get nothing.

[tcb1969a]

If the list stops moving that is............

[hurley9192]

regardless of how the list moves...it only moves one spot for a multiple of people that join. so, the more the list moves, the larger it gets.

5 go on the list only one comes off, it keeps growing exponentially. more than 50% will always be left out no matter what happens.

[tcb1969a]

And that is why it is explained on the website, so that people understand that. But somehow it becomes the Matrix Owners fault because the customer chose not to read the information on the site......

[MatrixWatch]

It is the owner's responsibility to ensure that the business follows legal guidelines. It is also the pay company's responsibility to ensure that those sites they service are following legal guidelines. Hence, the lawsuit.. While site owners sing their song about customer responsibility and laugh all the way to the bank when they close down, I am making sure that the customers are empowered to have a legal advantage when they become wise to what the system is all about.

[tcb1969a]

Just for clarification, Watch Dog, I do understand your point. But putting all Matrix Owners in the same category, is wrong and creates a stereotype that is unfair. Most of us, or at least I like to think that most of use, are honest hard working individuals trying to help people out. Whether you chose to believe it or not. Yet we are still labeled as those that will close down and laugh all the way to the bank. And that is justice to label a group....

[MatrixWatch]

You mean it is "unjust" to label a group. I understand how hard site-owners work. I too have wrestled with the idea of how to run a successful matrix site, and how to enable the cycling process to beat the mathematical misfortunes it is born with. The site owners not only need to deal with Matrix Watch, but also their doubting customers. However, the matrix model is an unethical one. It is designed exactly like a ponzi\pyramid scheme, where a few of the "early comers" are rewarded at the expense of those who sign on later. The best matrix-site-owner counter argument to this is, "Well, they should have read through the Terms of Service and done their homework!". Notice that this throws out a smoke screen and does not respond to the real issue. Do you see EzExpo collapsing under the weight of their long lists? Do you know why? Because they are just a little older than the other matrix sites. Even with autocycling and shorter lists, the same problem exists, and it is still an unethical business model. There is one way to make it work though. If a site owner places false names in the lists and uses that cycle money to reinvest in the other lists, then it will work. I know the site owners who are doing this (and I really do), and it is only adding "sin to sin".

Now, I believe you were going to explain how your site is NOT an illegal lottery.

[tcb1969a]

It is not an illegal lottery because it is a reward based system that people purchase an item and they are rewarded when they cycle. But that is neither here or there, since no one can understand that.

The site owners not only need to deal with Matrix Watch, but also their doubting customers.

Concerning this statement, I am here aren't I. And I have even said that I do understand your point to some extent. But I do not like being labeled with other Matrix Owners who have ripped people off. And when I said is that Justice, I was meaning that your site claims to be for justice, yet you label groups which isn't just, for which unjust comes from justice meaning the not justice.

In anycase, we Matrix Owners go thru great lengths to write faqs and terms of service so that the customer can say they didn't read it and ask for a refund. And that is somehow just to the Matrix Owner.

Also I must clarify people have a thing called free will, for which I believe me and you have gone over this issue.....

Also by the way, I have had a disgruntled customer who did not understand how the system worked, for which she complained withing 48 hours. So I refunded her money and purchased the spot on the list myself, so that the person at the top of the list didn't get screwed out of being 1 person closer to cycling cause of that person getting a refund. But I guess I am still a bad person, huh?

[MatrixWatch]

You answer to my question about the illegal lottery issue shows that you do not understand the California laws on illegal lotteries. I recommend that you download the EzExpo lawsuit.

I have a question for you and the other matrix-site owners out there. What do you plan to do with the people on your lists when:
1) Your smaller lists receive no more customers and are not moving at all?
2) Your lists get so many sign ups that they are too long?

I see that many customers are getting tired of the wait and are getting chargebacks. How are you positioning yourselves to avoid the mathematical consequences to your business structure?

[tcb1969a]

I have read the EZExpo Lawsuit, well, not all of it, I got bored.

As far as your other questions I believe I already answered them and some point either on this forum or on another forum.

As far as structuring my business against the mathematical consequences, well surfice it to say, I have a business strategy and as with most business certain strategies are confidential. You don't want to give away your strategies so other business will be able to counter your strategies. I'm not avoiding the question, it just is not good business practice to discuss strategies. But I do have some solutions

As far as lists getting too long, I have noticed some sites break those lists down into many other lists, or offer the customers to move to an existing list of their choice.

[poorme]

Ematrixusa has a breaking list policy. However customers in the forum showed the same agreement that this will not work because if the lists are split, there are gonna be too many lists. They may be all dead. They think breaking the list is another strategy that won't help.

If I were a matrix seller, my strategy is to
find a good hide-away from the angry mobs when the doom day comes.

[poorme]

I am making sure that the customers are empowered to have a legal advantage when they become wise to what the system is all about.


I agree.

People are blamed and called dumb becaue they do not truly undertand the system. The source itself should better be blamed because Matrix owner himself is the person who dig holes. Thus one should not wave the guilty to the unwary customers who fall in those holes and get hurt. The door to the wonder land is closed easily


------------------------------------

Also by the way, I have had a disgruntled customer who did not understand how the system worked, for which she complained withing 48 hours. So I refunded her money and purchased the spot on the list myself,

Smart girl! This is an example showing that people don't understand the matrix systems and they easily make a wrong decision.

[tcb1969a]

Smart girl! This is an example showing that people don't understand the matrix systems and they easily make a wrong decision.

And it also shows that some Matrix owners as myself are not so bad......

[uwantme]

Check this out:

http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1055#post1055

I am anxiously waiting to hear the opinions for this from the anti-matrix people

[MatrixWatch]

Whenever you start a new thread it is immediately updated onto the Active Topics box on the main page, and it also jumps to the top of the forum folder list with a small graphic that shows a user whether or not they have viewed it yet. I am mentioning this because you do not need to "hi-jack" a popular thread to direct people to another one. They can find it easily enough already. Please consider this next time.

[uwantme]

I wasnt trying to "hijack" a thread as you put it but I believe you asked:

I have a question for you and the other matrix-site owners out there. What do you plan to do with the people on your lists when:
1) Your smaller lists receive no more customers and are not moving at all?
2) Your lists get so many sign ups that they are too long?


and instead of rewriting or copying everything I had just said over here I posted the link instead, but if you wish I will waste my time and your space by rewriting everything out..

Here it is the answer to:

1&2)there was a cut off on the lists themselves.. For example the site states that after 50 people are on the list no new names will be added. So how do those 50 that are left cycle- though the continued sales of the tangable goods on the site. Things people would normally buy even if there was no free gift invovled like the t-shirts, rings etc. Meaning that even without a free gift being offered these items would still sell because it is items people normally buy on a regular basis. So the names left on the list will still conitnue to cycle without the list becoming endless, in fact the list would quickly be empty again. Also the site I know has a third site in development that will sell 10,000 tangible products with no matrix or mlm, selling invovled. 75% of all profits from this third site will also go towards helping the people who are on the list get off. Plus the site can offer refunds within a time period. so anyone can get their money back if they are unsatisfied or they later think they made a mistake. But the refund if for the tangible product not the matrix list so to recieve your refund you must send back the item you bought in the same condition it was sent to you.

So thats how matrix owners who are willing to change their ways can deal with these problems and stop them from becoming problems at all.

[poorme]

So the names left on the list will still conitnue to cycle without the list becoming endless, in fact the list would quickly be empty again.


I think your hope is set too high

[uwantme]

I think you are acting to quick to shut my ideas down.. Why is what I said high hopes? It is very possible.

Is it better or not that a list that grows forever. Would you or would you not have a better chance of cycling more people on a list like this if not all of them?

[poorme]

I still concern that buying ebook with some matrix sites May result in supporting terrorist.
According to CNN news, buying pirate stuffs may also do so.
Since the owner can quote that what they sell is ebook. It is easy for them to follow this scheme.
Since the site can shut down any time and reopen again and again without paying out the prizes. It is a good way for them to make money from their prey.

I have no evidence yet, please do not ask. Just an idea.

[MysticX23]

Originally posted by uwantme
I wasnt trying to "hijack" a thread as you put it but I believe you asked:

I have a question for you and the other matrix-site owners out there. What do you plan to do with the people on your lists when:
1) Your smaller lists receive no more customers and are not moving at all?
2) Your lists get so many sign ups that they are too long?


and instead of rewriting or copying everything I had just said over here I posted the link instead, but if you wish I will waste my time and your space by rewriting everything out..

Here it is the answer to:

1&2)there was a cut off on the lists themselves.. For example the site states that after 50 people are on the list no new names will be added. So how do those 50 that are left cycle- though the continued sales of the tangable goods on the site. Things people would normally buy even if there was no free gift invovled like the t-shirts, rings etc. Meaning that even without a free gift being offered these items would still sell because it is items people normally buy on a regular basis. So the names left on the list will still conitnue to cycle without the list becoming endless, in fact the list would quickly be empty again. Also the site I know has a third site in development that will sell 10,000 tangible products with no matrix or mlm, selling invovled. 75% of all profits from this third site will also go towards helping the people who are on the list get off. Plus the site can offer refunds within a time period. so anyone can get their money back if they are unsatisfied or they later think they made a mistake. But the refund if for the tangible product not the matrix list so to recieve your refund you must send back the item you bought in the same condition it was sent to you.

So thats how matrix owners who are willing to change their ways can deal with these problems and stop them from becoming problems at all.


i think thats a pretty good idea...need some major capital and advertising to pull it off tho...

other sites with good ideas i think:
applematrix.com
sublimematrix.com

they have different ideas rather than the usual "wait until u cycle, which can mean forever"

[MysticX23]

Originally posted by poorme
I still concern that buying ebook with some matrix sites May result in supporting terrorist.
According to CNN news, buying pirate stuffs may also do so.
Since the owner can quote that what they sell is ebook. It is easy for them to follow this scheme.
Since the site can shut down any time and reopen again and again without paying out the prizes. It is a good way for them to make money from their prey.

I have no evidence yet, please do not ask. Just an idea.

i haven't watched CNN, but would you care to explain a bit on y it results in supporting terrorist? sounds interesting.

[poorme]

It was a couple of week ago. Terrorists have their own network in selling pirate stuffs.




I hate taking other's money and calling them fools.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by poorme
It was a couple of week ago. Terrorists have their own network in selling pirate stuffs.




I hate taking other's money and call them fools.

So Im confused, Im not bashing just trying to get everything straight, but didnt someone say that supporting matrices or something was helping to support the terrorists? But if most matrix sites are selling e-books how it that pirated stuff? Since as everyone here so often pionts out that you can download almost any of the e-books for free from somewhere on the internet... Im just wondering what the direct connection of terrorist to matrix sites was exactly? Seems interesting though I must admit kinda far fetched, unless its something like those pot commercials you see on tv about how buying drugs helps people murder, supports terrorists etc... Maybe...... I just dont see the connection...

[MaxPower]

Never mind this topic poorme... I would highly doubt the possibility of your fears being true. The "matrix" is not popular enough... nor a big enough money maker to be all that worthwhile.

If there is no eveidence... than do not bring up a topic that would tarnish a group of people's reputataion so bad. We could all have suspicions of anything supporting everything. Maybe buying soda supports an evil militia... possible yes... plausible no.

This is not an attack on you poorme... A matrix does not deserve to be mentioned in the same topic as terrorism. It is just not warranted to associate matricies with possibly supporting terrorism if there has not been news or evidence of it. :cool: