IT4US.net - Is this program a scam?

[Cassie]

I'm researching the below program and was wondering if any one had any info on it?. whether it is legit or not. I know that the Admin, CEO did run the failed CashTrade program (among other programs) which he promised to pay back every one and uses many aliases, well that has been going on for over 2 years now. I was in that program and have lost ALOT of money ( several hundreds of dollars).

Here is the program I'm researching now.. http://it4us.net which he is now running.. It's call I.T International Trade


Any info. would be greatly appreciated.

Cassie

[Cassie]

Sorry my mistake, the program is called I.T. International Trading

Cassie

[mercinary]

No idea about this one. Anyone have any thoughts?

-Merc

[Alex]

I went to this site for about 45 seconds and would say yes it's a joke. Just from the homepage, which looks like my friend's 4 year old put it together in preschool, I started to laugh. Then I read the faq for about 10 secs and left.
Just my view though.

Alex

[sisco50]

Looks like one for yychen... $1,000.00 investment pays back $7,000.00 in 8 months. I thought no one could do this, not even PIPS. :)

[Cassie]

Hi

I was just checking out the I.T. forum. NOT very professional and as I was reading the posts and the replies from the CEO and staff I thought I was in a room of 6 year olds. UNBELIEVEABLE!!. Do People really believe they are going to make money on this? Hopefully people will take their money and RUN far away from this program!! Especially with the reputation this owner has with several FAILED programs and MANY people have lost 100's if not 1,000's of dollars being part of his programs in the past.

Thanks for the previous replies and they confirmed my thoughts on this program.

Cassie

[ycchen]

http://it4us.net/Catagories.html#portal1
Example:
A $20 Trade on Portal 1 will return $60 within 15 days. $40 of that $60 will be immediately available to the trader and paid to the account that the trader posted their trade from. The additional $20 will be held as the Security Charge for 30 days and then paid to the Trader. Has anyone heard of making a profit merely by purchasing a portal?! Isn't it sound exactly llike buying free ebooks (gotmatrix), overprised signal booster (getgiftsforfree) or useless leads (empowerism)?

it4us.net is just another matrix-doubler scam using different language. Too obvious. It is poorly designed and anyone who has dealed with matrix and doubler before know in 1 minute that it4us.net IS just another matrix-doubler scam.

Of course, we always welcome it4us.net owner to come to our forum to defense himself or herself :)

[Richard]

Cassie,

If you have remained in contact as requested, your funds will be paid to you, as has been stated.

This is no matrix, doubler, pyramid or anything like that - it is Trading in a number of currency markets - you buy nothing! The offline Traders have been extremely successful for over 6 years.

IT does not rely on traffic which all of the above scams you mention must have.

As for the design, well, that is ever changing. The offline Traders came and said "we want to establish an Internet presence and we want it to go live in 4 days!"

[sisco50]

Trading in currencies can be very unpredictable. Seems it would be difficult to tell a client when they will make a certain amount of money.

[darsebring]

I'm personally a member of IT, and I like the site design. Particularly the forum. It's very easy to navigate. And as I understand it, the currency markets aren't the only means by which these traders make money to ensure our success. I'm looking forward to many years of working with Richard and the others - and eventually learning the currency trading market enough to maybe even be able to successfully trade on my own :)

~Darwin

[weirdid]

$1,000.00 investment pays back $7,000.00 in 8 months.

Impossible, unless you invest in a couple of 12 gauge shotguns, and go rob a bank.

[sigx97]

Impossible, unless you invest in a couple of 12 gauge shotguns, and go rob a bank.
hahaha

[mabdog2]

My Dad (who is old enough to know better) gets caught up in one get rich scheme after another, and now he is caught up in IT International Trading.

Now he is trying to get me sucked into it. Have you any information on this “company” and it’s leadership that I can give him. I am involved in an aggressive growth mutual fund and there is no way you can possibly get the kind of return he is bragging about getting.

My mother and I have required that he show us the money, he has to get a check back from these people, and showed it to me or shut up. Apparently IT International Trading funnels their money to and from the users through INTGold. I don’t know who they are either. Any information you can provide will be greatly appreciated.

It is amazing to me that people will put money into an investment when they tell you up front that they will not let you know what their business is or how it works. I kept demanding from my Dad that he tell me how their business works and he can't, and once I got on their website I could see why. There is no way I am investing into a business, when they won't even tell me how they are doing what they are doing.

They could be trading in WMD for all I know.

[Dreamer]

Example: If a trader only trades a few times with us, then the original amount of the security charge will be released to them at the end of the 30 day hold time, but any interest built off of the security charge will belong to us.

Wait, can somebody explain this to me? Ok, I invest $100, and after 30 days I get my $100 back and they get the profit???

[Dreamer]

We maintain a very strict policy in regards to Spam. First of all there is No reason any Trader or Client should have to resort to such criminal offenses. Since we do not rely on traffic flow and do not offer a referral program, there is no reason any of our members should feel pressured into utilizing such criminal tactics.

They must mean business with thier usage of criminal!

Oh, these 2 qutoes found on:
http://it4us.net/Disclaimer.html

[MatrixWatch]

What is IT Trading? Is it a gold game, or an HYIP?

[Dreamer]

Just a few pointless observations:

Registrant:
XXX
XXX
Oliver, British Columbia V0H 1T0
Canada

Registered through: NR1 Domains
Domain Name: IT4US.NET
Created on: 07-Nov-04

But yet to be a client you have to trade for 6 months. Whats more interesting is:

Yet we have some VIP- Executive Clients that were with us for over 5 years before becoming an Executive Client




We have one of the largest internationally established business networks in the world with a variety of popular and very profitable online and offline programs. At the moment we are completely dedicated and concentrating on getting the information compiled for the upcoming trade window.

Wow...within one month they already have one of the largest yadda yadda...

http://it4us.net/Opportunities.html

But if anybody is concerned about the legimiticy of this, here is their portal 1 promise:

A $20 Trade on Portal 1 will return $60 within 15 days

Wait...is there any legimitate program out there that can guarntee anything at all? I always hear about how previous results isn't a guarantee for future success.

[Dreamer]

http://it4us.net/Opportunities.html

We have one of the largest internationally established business networks in the world with a variety of popular and very profitable online and offline programs.

So, what are some of these awsome programs?

http://it4us.net/Questions.html

ONLINE SERVICES INCLUDE:

* Web Page Design and Maintenance.
* Professional Graphical Design. Including:
Banners, Flyers, Business Cards, Avatars, and logo's
* Advanced website design Flash, animation, scripting and PHPs
* Gift and Holiday products and Online Stores.
* Online security - Expert advice and recourse
* Virtual word-processing and typing services
* Marketing, promotion, advertising and publishing services
* Copywriting, editing and proofreading.
* Professional virtual game design and beta testing.

OFFLINE SERVICES INCLUDE:

* Our own Brand Name Products.
* Copywriting, editing and proofreading.
* Marketing, promotion, advertising and publishing services
* Professional Graphical Design. Including:
Flyers, Business Cards, and logo's
* Health, Beauty, and Household Products.
* Home Business Opportunities and advertising.
* Charity work and non-profit organizations.

Doesn't seem that exciting to me. I wonder if they offer baby sitting services?

[ycchen]

They do offer baby sitting service, which is hidden under the following quote.
*Our own Brand Name Products.
It is their signatured product or service, called something like "IT International Trading Babies."

Ask them and you will be surpriced by the scope of their "own Brand Name" products ! :bow:

[sisco50]

"Wow...within one month they already have one of the largest yadda yadda..."

Their OFFLINE presence has lasted for six years but they have only been ONLINE about a month. I got this info from reading at the site.

[Richard]

Lots of information available on the site, you don't have to sit and shoot holes in something you don't understand, or worse, take the time to even read!

They could close the doors on people who wanted to join and still make money, now how many other "programs" could do that? They all rely on a constant flow of new members, new money, when that dries up the program disappears!

[Richard]

Wait, can somebody explain this to me? Ok, I invest $100, and after 30 days I get my $100 back and they get the profit???


You obviously didn't read, did you?

Invest $100, within 30 days you receive back $250, not $100!! 30 days after the Trade matures you receive the other $100 back.

So, what profit are they keeping?

[MatrixWatch]

Richard, feel free to use the quote command in the reply area. This way, we can differentiate between your words and the line that you are responding too.

It is great to have your insights and input on the forums here.

[Richard]

I forgot about that feature, haven't used it much in the past, sorry and thanks for the reminder!

[Dreamer]

sisco,

you should know me well enough that I do things half arsed and I tend not to read everything...just the things I want to complain about :)

Either way, I'm not going to believe them cause the design of the site is piss poor, the language is below 10th grade level, and they aren't willing to give any real details in what they are doing. You can go to any financial company and ask for details on how they invest the money, what they do, and everything. They are not going to guard it like its some killer trade secret. They know that a well informed consumer is a good client. The average consumer isn't going to try to do it on their own after listening to how it works.

And, this is a "financial instutiton" regarding currency trading or something, so why are they offering typing services? That list just sounds like the skills a high school kid has that is trying to make a quick buck.

[Richard]

so why are they offering typing services?

If you read the list, IT is not offering typing services. What was presented was a list of some of the services offered by people who also either belong to/or Trade through IT.

IT is not a financial institution, but an online presence requested by a successful group of offline Traders. They have been operating successfully for over 6 years and wanted to establish an online presence. They gave 3 people 4 days to get the site designed and online, so yes it was a bit rough to begin with and yes it is undergoing transformation, and will under go more as time becomes available for that.

I like simple, plain text. It is easy to read and understand and not everyone has English for their first language, so why complicate and confuse matters when it is not necessary?

How Trading is done? What I know is; the Traders are successful, they are trading in about 14 currency markets constantly, I started with a borrowed $10 and am a few hundred dollars in profit. How they did it, I don't really understand, nor do I need to.

I really like the fact that they do not offer a referral program, have no intention of offering a referral program - so they do not rely on new money/members to pay older ones. Also the fact that they could close the doors to new members and still continue to earn returns.

I have read the entire site more than once, thru the revisions, read the forum and have asked questions.

I could be like a bunch of others, nit pick about spelling or grammar, but why? What does that gain? And I am glad they did what they did within time constraints and that Admin is taking time off for family over Christmas and New Years!

[Dreamer]

Well, here are the reasons why I don't believe their lies:

1. They aren't specific in anything.
2. They make guarantees whichi is impossible if they were real traders.
3. No phone numbers or brick and morter address to contact them?
4. Why don't they mention iwhat their professional associations are?

Ok. You think they are trading in currencies. Lets take your $10 that you borrowed. They claim to be able to double it in 15 days. So, that means in 15 days of trading they need to find a currency that will double in value against the US dollar, or if they short it, to become half as valuable.

THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

If I could do that for myself, I'd go to a loan shark in Vegas, borrow several million dollars, and I'd make myself super rich.

All it is is a doubler made to look pretty by pretending to be something that they are not because it sounds better.

Yeah, they don't need referals to survive. All they need to do is open up trading for another 72 hours and you'll put more money into it yourselves.


We have one of the largest internationally established business networks in the world with a variety of popular and very profitable online and offline programs.



Q: What businesses or services are provided by your network of businesses?
A: We prefer not to elaborate on such subjects at this time to the general public. As Traders and Clients spend more time with us, such information and resources will become available to you.
Here however is a brief and vague list of businesses or services that we collectively provide.

[Dreamer]

Oh...and another thing. No ligimate company would offer their guanantee. Lets say that they bring in $200,000 in one of their windows and they screwed up and lost 1%. Thats $2,000 out of their own pocket they would have to pay. Please show me a legimitate company that would do that.

Also, as concerned always points out, your gain, is that actual money in your pocket, or does it show you are up hundreds of dollars on the site?

[Dreamer]

And another thing. When I go shopping a frequently asked question is not how the business makes money. When I go to my bank I don't ask whats in it for my bank. And, if I want to trade on wallstreet and go to a broker, I know he is making $10 a transaction, or whatever that rate is. Have you ever noticed thats always a FAQ in matrix sites and doubler?

Forgive this guys' grammer. Their clients offer typing services, proofreading, but can't proofread this:


Q: How does the admin of this program make money?
A: Simple. We make our money the same way you do. By Trading it.
Unlike other online programs you may have participated in, we do not take our profits off of the top. When your Trades are submitted they go directly into those Trades and our various Trading Markets.

Once those markets have provided you with a return, then we take whatever profit is available. Usually any extra that is available from general trades will go right back into the system to help to support, maintain, or provide security for future trades. After all it is not the general trades that we are mostly interested in, it is The Clients.

You see all of our Trading Portals are nothing more than the beginning. They are being made available so that more people can become educated with what we do and how, thus providing you with the opportunity to join our ranks as Clients. Once Traders have advanced to Clients, that is where the Real Success is achieved and where you will learn to gain a very solid financial balance for yourself and your families.

Once you have made these achievements you would have just added yourself to our Client base, and in doing so effectively aided us accomplishing our goals that much faster.


And you said somewher that they had only 4 days to put up a site? Why is that? So they can get more money for themselves for christmas? Even so, give me a day and I'll put up a better site. It only takes a few minutes to grammer check it in word. If they can't spend a few minutes to grammer check it in word and they don't have a command over the english language past 8th grade, than why would you want to give them your money?

Me personally, I want to know exactly how my money is being invested. Do you know what they are doing with your money past reading their self grandizing praises?

Oh yeah. Its been up longer than 4 days. Why haven't they made it more professional since?

[Dreamer]

I think i might be right on about the doubler...Their own banner on advertising page is "Forget the doublers don't even try the tripplers". Ummm. Have you seen that on any brokerage sites?

[weirdid]

The return on capitol offered by this site, is enough to set the alarm bells ringing.

Someone, somewhere, is making a loss, to provide this gain.

If it looks too good to be true, you can bet your boots it is.

Time will tell.

weird

[Cassie]

hmmmmmmm..

Check out this website: http://a2zbiznesscez.net/ITSystems/Index.html . This website was created June 25th 2004. So my question did you know that the offline people were coming online before Nov.7th, 2004. The 2 websites look VERY similar if NOT identical.

MB/RT/I.T. did pay me back my investment in CashTrade (after 2 years) plus only 24% instead of the 400% original 500%. and said I was all paid up. So much for sticking to their guarantee. Hopefully IT wouldn't be pulling the same thing with IT'S members.

Cassie

[Dreamer]

Take a look at their meta name if you still think its legit:

content="International Trading, Ultimate Trading Program, HYIP, Matrix Doublers, long term, short term, intermediate, intermediate term, short, special trades, foreign exchange, fx traders, profit, making money, earning money, capital, profits, money, return, legitimate program, relationship, profitable future, network."

[Dreamer]

But, if this all still sounds good to you, google the company name. If its legit you should have no problem finding sites to sing their praises. But, they are partnered with all these businesses but they don't list a single one. Why is that?

[Dreamer]

The technical Director should invest in some of his own money in the program:

http://www.readingparents.com/

Every purchase you make from our site is much appreciated, and will help us supplement our low income.

[ycchen]

You are right, Dreamer. This site is a no BS doubler or simply ponzi/pyramid scheme. Of course, if you are early birds, you WILL be paid because all trully ponzi scheme pays the early birds to establish their reputation, to keep the snow ball rolling.

So, don't be surpriced if someone comes over here and say: I was paid!

[Richard]

Everything can be taken out of context and made to look like something else.

No one is twisting your arm saying you have to invest anything.

Why try your hardest to twist my arm to say I shouldn't?

[MatrixWatch]

You are also free to jump in front of a Mack truck in order to try and kiss the bulldog ornament on the hood. I would, of course, seek to pursuade you logically to not do it, but you are free to make your own decisions.

Excuse the candor of this example, but we have been around the block a couple times and we see these things crash all the time. It seems like every three months there is some new program out there that pays out hundreds and then disappears with thousands.

Many of these "companies" are also operating with off-shore payment accounts and false addresses. This makes it harder to sue them for your losses.

The old addage applies, "If it looks too good to be true..."

I am concerned when I come across a program that pays ultra-high dividents, but doesn't explain how they do it. Are the selling drugs? Is your money going to support other pyramid scams? You never really know these days, and I'll tell you why this is bad.

When it comes time that they disappear with your money, or they don't pay you as much as they promised, then you are going to want those funds. Since they might very well be illegal, it is very hard to recover your losses through legal means.

If you stick your money in a bank then it is FDIC insured. If you invest in a mutual fund and that fund pays a divident, you can expect to get 100% of the earnings from that increase, not 10% with an apology from the manager of the fund.

People come here all the time telling us how the stock market is not secure, and so that makes every other non-secure investment scheme on par with the investments on Wall Street. We then hear all kinds of rhetoric about how, "If it pays, then it is legit!". If that is how you evaluate a good investment program then we cannot help you.

I can give a few hundred dollars to a heroin dealer and he will probably pay me 1000% on my money within a month. That doesn't make it a good, secure, safe, or legal investment. When it comes to the "new schemes on the block", I'd recomment that you ask lots of questions. If your questions and concerns are being ignored, and instead the owner waves a bunch of money and promises at you, then stay away from it and start counting the days. Before long it will be gone.

[Dreamer]

Im personally not telling anybody what they should and shouldn't do with their money. its their money to spend or save. If I was so great with my own money I wouldn't be struggling so much now adays making sure bills are bing paid.

If somebody asks for my advise, I'll give it to them. Good or bad. But, lets look at things in perspective:

Jim Cramer has said that he made like 15% in a year in wallstreet. If he has invested 10million dollars, that 15% turns into a profit of 1.5million dollars he made buying and selling stocks. Thats huge. But, thats only 15%.

Now comes all of these online promises that claim they are somebody that they aren't making all these promises. Heck, even this site promised doubling your money in 15 days. How come nobody told Jim about that?

So, put aside your greed and lets look at this for a second. How would these claims actually work?

1. The person is lying to you.

They can do that easily. If they get 500 people into the site, and each puts in $100, they took in $5000. So, they can say your account is making so much money, and they can even pay out some. So long as its less than $2000 total, if they want to steal $3000. Most people probably keep their money in these systems, so when you hear people getting paid, ask to see the proof.

2. They probably have insider information.

Thats a big no no. Martha stewart just went to prison for doing that crap. Its very much illegial, so do you really want to give your moeny to an individual who is breaking the law? Chances are they will get caught and there goes your money.

3. They are trading on extreme speculative markets with very depreseed economies.

Know anything about Mr. Ponzi. His system was to take the stamps from a depressed economy and sell it back to the US. Even so, the truth is that if they are investing on such speculative markets (like the junk bond market), yes there is an opportunity for great return, but your usually 100x more likely to lose EVERYTHING.

Im not telling you what you should or shouldn't do. I'm not your mother and you probably don't listen to her anyways. We all want to make money. Me, I choose to earn it instead of stealing it from others. My whole goal here is to help you make a better decision with your money.

Do you really think it is wise to give a conman your money in hopes that he'll be honest with you and give you back your money plus some?

[ycchen]

Everything can be taken out of context and made to look like something else.

No one is twisting your arm saying you have to invest anything.

Why try your hardest to twist my arm to say I shouldn't? Richard, are you the owner, promoter or investor? It does not really matter if you could clarify this basic question, which PIPS supporters fail to do so.

Why would such a profitable currency trading company -- it4us.net -- want to share their super profit with small investors like us? ($20, $60) I don't think they are doing charity, right? Then, why? Please explain, thanks.

[sisco50]

Richard, are you the owner, promoter or investor? It does not really matter if you could clarify this basic question, which PIPS supporters fail to do so.

Why would such a profitable currency trading company -- it4us.net -- want to share their super profit with small investors like us? ($20, $60) I don't think they are doing charity, right? Then, why? Please explain, thanks.

Failure to research and understand a program can and does lead to many "basic" questions. No revelation there. But this post does raise a question in my mind. When did PIPS become a currency trading company? The Forex trading that is done on their behave is less than 2% of their total business. Last time I checked, you could not join PIPS for $20 or $60. Best I can tell, there is no comparision between it4us.net and PIPS program.

[ycchen]

sisco50, i think you misunderstood my question. When I said PIPS supporter or administrator fail to do so, I mean they fail to explain why such a profitable company like PIPS (or in this thread -- it5us.net -- needs to share their >800% ROI with small investors? WHY? Why don't they keep all the profit to themselves? That's the basic question.

[sisco50]

I got it! Thanks! :)

[Kiawanna]

Replying to all those claiming that IT is offerring the Impossible. For anyone that REALLY knows the Markets -- then what IT is offerring is not only Possible, it is Below Board. There is also about 50 pages I could fill with information in reply to some of the strongest "points" made here, but quite frankly I have not the time for such things. So my offer is that anyone that wants Facts as apossed to all the bla bla bla, need only contact myself in Voice (Yahoo IM: Kiawanna1442) and I will do my best to sort them out -- Provided time and schedule allow of-course.

Rushing thru as usual, so hopefully this is clear for all.


Thanks
Mac

[Dreamer]

50 pages? i'll read thru that. How bout emailing it to me and I'll stand up for you in this forum and tell the whole world that you can do the impossible.

And, while your busy emailing that to me, why don't you go ahead and just post what happened the last window, how you were able to take joe blows $20 and turn it into $40. At least this way you can lie to your hearts desire and see if you can play the numbers game for any 15 day period to show a profit of 100%.

My email address is dreamscaper76@hotmail.com Send it via text, word, pdf, heck, I don't care. You can choose whatever point you want to address in the 50 pages, or if you would like to do 50 pages for each point, I'll go thru all you got.

[sisco50]

Thanks for the offer, but I'll pass. I would hate to waste your time. :)

[Dreamer]

Sisco, I think we had probably a good dozen points on why its a scam, so at 50 pages a piece...thats gonne be some hot reading material! I'll compose a cliff notes version for you if you like. I have lots of time I can waste!

[Kiawanna]

Sad....Very sad. But guess it just shows that you really do not care do you?

Well .... Carry on with your game here -- and feel free to twist these words into anything Your Heart desires. I have no time for games.
Some of you requested FACTS, I offerred an option. If you wish to make it into something it is not, feel free.

[Dreamer]

Im requesting your facts. I'm not trying to twist anything. Hell, I'd like to be able to double my money that quickly. If you can do that for me I'll clear out my savings so I can make some money. I just wont' do it if i find out its a doubler which it looks and soulds like it is.

So, would you email me your facts?

[ycchen]

Sad....Very sad. But guess it just shows that you really do not care do you?

Well .... Carry on with your game here -- and feel free to twist these words into anything Your Heart desires. I have no time for games.
Some of you requested FACTS, I offerred an option. If you wish to make it into something it is not, feel free.

Sad.... Very sad, is that all you can say? Please post your FACTS on this forum or email to Dreamer cause we love facts, really. The problem with ponzi/pyramid scam is their ambiguity. They do not necessary tell lies, but only half truth. If you have 50 pages to defense the 'real' business, we are more than happy to read it with open mind. :)

[sisco50]

Thanks for the offer, but I'll pass. I would hate to waste your time. :)

No twist here. Just the facts. I won't waste your time because I won't join a doubler. Short & sweet! :)

[Dreamer]

Send me the facts and I'll be sure to post it here. Here you'll have a goldmine of new people to join your system. Most people here have been ripped off by some matrix or a new doubler or something. If they found a system that actually worked and wasn't a doubler that tried to be legit, they might put their money your way also to recoup some of their losses on scam sites.

Yes, most of us maybe anti-matrix, but I'm all for the truth. Give me some kind of proof, and I'll be glad to join your ranks and start investing my checks.

[Kiawanna]

Most people here have been ripped off by some matrix or a new doubler or something.
Exactly the reason we are doing what we are doing, and the manner for.

Send me the facts and I'll be sure to post it here.
Yes, most of us maybe anti-matrix, but I'm all for the truth.
If your serious(?), then you show me. Join me in chat or PM me with a phone number and when time allows I will answer ANY question that you have, and then you can bring those answers to print in your own words. For me, even finding the time for such voice conferences or heck for that matter being able to enjoy a few moments away with my family is a bit of a stretch at this time. So needless to say, taking the time to explain all in print is most certainly not an option that is available to me.

I only came here in the first place by request of a Friend. Join us? Ignore us? Really does not matter. It is for YOUR benefit that we have made any attempt at all.

Thank you and Good Day
Mac

[Dreamer]

I would love to join you in a chat, but working full time and being a full time student, when time permits, sleep takes a large priority in my life. Besides, not knowing anything about your business, I think it would be very fruitless since I wouldn't know the proper questions to ask

I am serious. I will join you in chat, but can you provide me some hard evidence first via email, than I can analyze that so our meeting will be more productive for both of us?

[ycchen]

For me, even finding the time for such voice conferences or heck for that matter being able to enjoy a few moments away with my family is a bit of a stretch at this time. So needless to say, taking the time to explain all in print is most certainly not an option that is available to me.

Why is it so difficult to explain your presumably legit business? I think Bill Gates can explain his business in less than 5 minutes! If you start typing the FACT now, you would have finished writing the facts in less than 10 minutes. :) Try it, it is not as time consuming as you think :)

[Dreamer]

I really think you should. As I said, most people here have been scammed out of money by believing in promises from matrix type sites. If your a legit business and there is no funny work involved, you can potentilaly gain 1,000 (how many members does MW have?) more members almost overnight, and you can count on them spending alot of money on your site recouperating their losses on the scam sites.

But, indeed if it is just too difficult to explain, either your lying and cant come up with lie (I'm pulling for you on this, so I wont call you a liar) or the business model is just way too complicated, in which case I'm not surre I'd want to spend my hard earned money there because if its too difficult to explain its probably way too difficult to implement properly.

[Dreamer]

And, don't worry about divulging any industry secrets and afraid to lose business than. I can walk into a bank and ask the bank manager how they do business, but with that knowledge that won't make me be able to start my own bank. I can go in a brokerage firm and ask them how they would invest my money for me if they did, but that doesnt mean if I tried to do it myself I'd have the same success.

When I was running my shop, you could come in and ask me how I do my business. There were no secrets. I wouldnt lose any business because I told you how we operate. Hell, there have been small business owners whos main goal was to come into town to put us out of business. Not only did they understand the business, but they did that for a living. We were there longer.

I really cant think of any business or industry that would suffer if the clientelle knew how the business was operated. Can anybody here give me an example where the stupider the client base the better the business (and I'm not talking about schools since their business is to try to make people smarter).

[innchef]

Sometimes it takes a program owner over two years to explain something. I wonder why.Could it be that all the time he was thinking things up he was still taking money from the people??? :mad: :mad: :mad:

[jokach]

It sounds like one of those things where they think it up as they go, and end up with 50 pages of possible facts based on potential situations ....


So needless to say, taking the time to explain all in print is most certainly not an option that is available to me.

It is for YOUR benefit that we have made any attempt at all.


Does this sound like the attitude you want from someone who you invest your money in? I know I would look the other way ... same attitude as matrix site owners, its all about them.

my choice? Stay away ..... :nono:

[innchef]

Yep. All about them. But hey, they change their name and go to another country and think they can't be found. Hmmmmmmm I wonder if my bill collectors will let me do that. :applause:

[Richard]

No one has gone to another country, changed their name or anything. Everyone is where they have always been and it has been said many times all outstanding debts will be paid.

[ycchen]

No one has gone to another country, changed their name or anything. Everyone is where they have always been and it has been said many times all outstanding debts will be paid.

what do you mean by "all outstanding debts"? Whose debt? To pay whom?

[Dreamer]

Just a quick update. I checked my mail. Nothing yet. I hate to draw the conclusion that your site is a big scam and you couldn't even come up with a lie that sounds remotely believable.

If you can resend the email (if you already sent it) I'd appreciate it. Once I review your facts and have a better idea of how your business runs, I'll give you my phone number, or we can chat in any other way that would work for you.

As I said, I have no problems standing up for you in these forums to let this large memberbase know that your site is legit. I know i will become a customer of yours if you can find the time to explain your business to me. Maybe others will follow. I may be a nobody here, but I do speak my mind, even if I'm completely off base (just take alook at just about any of my recent posts to see how screwey I am).

Eagerly awaiting your email. My job is constantly screwing me over on my paychecks, so maybe it would just be best to invest my paychecks into your system.

Thank you
Dreamer

[innchef]

Don't hold your breath Dreamer. You will probably get an answer as did all the rest but it was just to assure us that all was OK to give them more time to set up new programs and close the original. Like the matrix then the challenge and the gold.
I wish you luck . As for me I will stick with my Lawyer.
You know what they say " buyer beware " :nono: :nono: :nono:

[Dreamer]

Im actually curious about the outstanding debts myself. I know a sure fire way you can pay it off though.

Take $20 in portal 1 and let it ride in portal one.

Week 0: $20
Week 2: $60
Week 4: $180
Week 6: $540
Week 8: $1,620
Week 10: $4,860
Week 12: $14,580
Week 14: $43,740
Week 16: $131,220
Week 18: $393,660
Week 20: $1,180,980
Week 22: $3,542,940
Week 24: $10,628,820
Week 26: $31,886,460
Week 28: $95,659,380
Week 30: $286,978,140

This takes us to 8 months. So, why would I want to turn $1000 into $7000 when i can turn $20 into $286,978,140?

Week 32: $860,943,420 - That should get you into the 304 spot of Richest people in the US

Week 46: $1,882,863,576,540 - Thats more than all the gold in the world. Better start going to Silver now.

Week 50: $16,946,772,188,860 - Thats more than double the US sovereign debt

Week 52: $50+ trillion. Py off the worlds nominal soverign debt 2 times

But you've been in business for 6 years?

After 2 years: $129 septillion (24 zeros)
After 3 years: $324 underillion (36 zeros)
After 4 years: $834 quidecillion (48 zeros)
After 5 years: $2 vignitillion (63 zeros)
After 6 years: $5 quattuorviginitillion (75 zeros)

$5,394,432,118,121,512,642,238,274,762,862,418,977 ,507,950,836,626,472,227,857,226,711,605,470

If you stay open in business you will be the first googolianaire. I'm pushing for you!

[sisco50]

For shame. Are we being the class clown again? lol

[Dreamer]

Well, if they wont email me, if they are a legimitate business, like they make sure to state they are, and its reasonable to expect that they can triple my money in 15 days, if they were truely successful at what they were doing, wouldn't be reasonable to assume that they have that kind of money?

And if they had that kind of money, why should they share their secret with the rest of us? If they truely wanted to be nice about it, they should just mail everybody in the world a trillion dollars a piece.

[Dreamer]

I got another question for you and your super secret system.

According to http://it4us.net/

All of our Network Trading is based on a 13, 48, to 90 week scale. This scale has proven to be very profitable for us, yet we know that many of our I.T. Clients would be very hesitant to enter into such a long term trading scale.


And, according to http://it4us.net/Tradingtimes.html

All of our Network Trading is based on a 13, 32, 56 or 96 week scale. This scale has proven to be very profitable for us, yet we know that many of our I.T. Clients would be very hesitant to enter into such a long term trading scale.


So, what is it? Ok, the 13 seems to be right. If the 32 doesn't kick in do yo than try the 48? Than you jump to 56 and flip a coin if the next cycle is 90 or 96 weeks?

Now I know that you can't be bothered with spelling and grammer even though your businesses offer proofreading services and baby sitting services, but even the vagueness of trading times doesn't seem to match up. If you guys can't figure out how many weeks there are, is that our option..Oh, I don't like 48, so can you do something else?

And, I was rereading this thread. People mentioned how horrible the site looks. Is it even possible to have 3 people work on a website? How did the break it down? One person find the stupid pictures at the bottom, one person try to come up with something that sounds legit without offering any information really, and the third person...well, he drank the soda. But, you've been in business for over a month now, and still havne't updated it yet?

And, what about that other identical site from 6 months prior to this one that somebody pointed out?

If you can include the answers to these questions in your email I would appreciate it.

[Kiawanna]

Well all of you seem to have ALL of the answers, and refuse to join me in voice as I have very little time for anything else -- So please continue educating people with your vast knowledge. I am sure many will be saved ffrom the evil likes of us.

Carry On.

I can SEE what great things you are accomplishing

[Dreamer]

i admit i have no answers...thats why im asking questions that you are avoiding. I'll be happy to have a voice conversation with you, however, I don't know anything about your business model. I would like to know more so I can ask more pointed questions and get to the truth.

If I'm left to my own devises, I'll continue to make silly statements. But, I don't know better because you wont help me understand.

[sisco50]

hehehehehe

[MatrixWatch]

Well all of you seem to have ALL of the answers, and refuse to join me in voice as I have very little time for anything else -- So please continue educating people with your vast knowledge. I am sure many will be saved ffrom the evil likes of us.

Carry On.

I can SEE what great things you are accomplishing

What was this posted in reference to? Was it meant to be an official response to the important issues that have been raised here in this thread? Seems a bit anti-intellectual to me, but hey, that is just my observation.


:bow:

[ycchen]

Anyone surprise? Nope. Greg came to our site with only 3 words to say : "business is good" . :applause:

The truth is they do not have the answers to any of our questions. All they can do is to keep finding excurses .. too busy? lol

[Dreamer]

I got more out of siscos response of hehehehe than I'm getting from any of those associated with the site (ie, the one owner with 3 different names here, but thats my own unfound accusations). At least with sisco we know somebody ammused him in some way. With these site owners instead of forming a paragraph how its a waste of time, they could have just formed a simple paragraph how any of our statements are wrong.

Take for example the 3 different week or 4 different trading weeks. Now, there is a simple thing to tackle.

[innchef]

Hey Dreamer.
If you want the honest answers write to me.
I know all the dirty linen that is not hanging on the line

[Dreamer]

Hey Dreamer.
If you want the honest answers write to me.
I know all the dirty linen that is not hanging on the line

Email sent. Ok, the race is on. Will Richard and company email me first or will innchef email me first? I hope IT email me first, cause I don't trust this innchef at all. he's just going to spew lies how he probably got conned out of another site these honests folks ran.

So, can you guys email me and briefly explain your business? Than, I'll provide you my home number, cell phone number, work number, fax number, pager number, email address, shipping address, work address, mailing address, vacation resort address...what else can I give you?

And, to make this worth your while, I have $500 here with your name on it. If you can convince me your business is legit, I'll buy some portals. I could use a little extra cash. Your just gonna hafta teach me this intgold, or whatever you use. So, I eagerly await your responce. It doesn't have to be 50 pages. Just a couple well though out paragraphs.

[ycchen]

I have US$1,000 for you! I will by all the portals or whatever you are selling if you could PM me with convincing business plan. Trust me, I will will be impartial :cool: If dreamer's model is correct, I want to be the first googolianaire! :D

[Dreamer]

If anybody has any information on this site, please contact me via pm or email, or just post your story here. I thought this was a reputable business since they claim they are, however, its becoming obvious that the owners don't care to even respond to a single question we have posed here. Thats unfortunate. I guess this means that I need to take these questions to their happy forums.

Has anybody tried to read their forums yet? I dont' see a single thread there asking about how the site works? Are people really that blind there that they just see potential for returns that they aren't willing to even find out how the site is investing their money? Or, are they just really good at deleting any challenging posts?

I'll give our friends here until next week to see if they will respond here. Next week I'll bring my questions to their forums.

So, Richard, how goes paying off all the old debts? What happened to the securities from all these great successful traders? And, why exactly do you owe people money?

[Richard]

The debt talked about is money that would have gone from CTIS to its members if it hadn't been hacked. IT does not have any obligation to pay those monies, but has said it would, right from the very beginning, it has never been debated or said it would not be paid. Some prior members have been paid in full, the rest will receive the monies owed to them as soon as possible.

IT is a network of companies and many individuals, some that you have seen listed, and say are nothing but crap, how could we say we are professional if we are associated with them! Simple, we believe in People Helping People. Should we turn our back on a lady because she is not a high school graduate, but who has an enormous heart for helping people? On a lady who does not have English as her first language, has trouble expressing herself, but will sit by the computer for hours to answer questions and we have to figure out the words by the meaning of the sentence? On a blind member because he can't see the site, but will sit in a chat session to answer questions. We will not turn those people away because their site, or information, they present is not perfect!

I'm not over here everyday, I come over every 3 or 4 days as I have other pressing things to do - like finish creating a website for my niece, administer funds for a South East Asia Tsunami Relief account, and help others.


I'll do a copy paste of a post of another member, because it says so much of what I would say, and probably better than I could.

I was and am a member of the old Cashtrade system that got hit by hackers and utterly ruined. All the bad stuff that was said and the finger pointing that went on for a long time was nothing short of horrendus. Mac stayed the course and tried to answer posts and took the crap that folks threw out. All he had to do was take a few key people and start again without so much as a backward glance and start up under a different name. He didn't. He even promised to pay out the folks that had invested in the old business, something he and admin were not duty bound to do. EXCEPT FROM A MORAL POINT. Anybody that can get held up to ( more or less ) public ridicule and not buckle under is deserving of MY support.
When the offer was made to allow many of us to invest in the new venture, some of us took it on faith and invested. Some a little(me) and some a bit more. While these invests were not added to the old " stats " page, I believe that a hard copy exists, and in due time, these will be honored as well.
I think, at least in part, I.T. is the result of a lot of unpaid and unthanked hours of work. I believe this program and Macs tenacity has won out. This is going to be a force to be reckoned with.
Use common sense when trading. Get educated. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose. Help others realize THEIR dreams when you can afford a little gift to another.
A motto of I.T. ( if not the diffinitive motto) is " People Helping People "
Take it literally.

[Dreamer]

A few things. First and foremost thank you for taking the time out to finally post something. I hope that you will post more here.

What does your site being hacked have anything to do with anything? Most sites make regular backups of their sites, not for the purpose of being able to fix the hacks, but to have the most recent copy of the site available offline so if minor changes need to be made they can make the changes offline, than update it. Heck, paypal goes down once a week for a couple hours for server upgrades. I will never buy the excuse of hackers as a reason for a site to close down.

But, since hackers like to be blamed for it, do you know that most hackers will not destroy anything on your webpage? they'll simply rename it, and create their own index.html. The only time I heard of a website being deleted by hackers was a KKK site, or something equally as horrible. Spend some time at 2600 to see what hackers are really like.

Who would want to hack your site? A customer? I think they would mess with the lists personally to get their gift alot quicker. A simple change like that probably won't be detected. A random cracker on the loose? i'm sure they are much more interested in trying to crack yahoo or amazon, or something of a challenge. A disgruntled former member who wants to shut down the site? Now thats a stretch, because if you can crack the site I think there could be more things to do to help the customers than shutting down the site. Destroying the site will just cause everybody to lose their money.

So, the last group of people left is the owner or a friend of the owner at the owners request. Do you have any proof that the site was hacked besides a new homepage? Why didn't you just revert back to a previous page?

Now, my question to you would be why would anybody want to invest in this program if a previous site had no security that a script kiddy is blamed for taking it down? What if the same script kiddy went to this new site? Is your security really that lax that it was never addressed and no safety precautions were set in place before hand? I can't believe that because most sites cry hacked.

But, what does a hacked site have anything to do with anything? You still have your customers moneys. Return it. Since you closed down your business with current liablities time to take out a loan to pay it off because you didn't fulfill your end of the bargin by staying open.

I'm sorry. I'm not buying this. Can you provide any proof?

And, that People helping People...that sounded so beautiful. But, thats what ALL PONZI SCHEMS claim. People are helping people. If I join a matrix site, I'm helping out the people on top of me when I give them free money. Thats what gifting clubs claim. Be sincere. People helping people is not about people being lied to and scammed. If it was truely people helping people than it should be people helping other people find a job, apply for insurances, whatever. Not why dont' you give us money you probably can't afford to and we'll pretend like your doing good while we steal you blind.

And, who cares if IT promised or didn't promise something. If you were a legit operation with outstanding debts, a lawsuit would attach itself to your new business and probably the courts would take out the first moneys from your business out of your till until the debt is paid in full. But, thats if you were legit.

Here is my next question to you, since you were kind enough to reply. Why would these very successful traders (although I proved that to be a horrible lie) align themselves with you, a person who has outstanding debts from a previous company and a person who was so lax on security that his previous company closed down due to so called hackers, and they didn't have a backup site offline to fix it?

what makes you so special that these successful people couldn't find a professional web designer to do it for them?

[innchef]

All I will say right now is to get out your rubber boots. I have heard lies for the last 2 years but these are taking the cake. I remember when I used to get letters from someone and he spoke his mind to me but now he seems to be Mac's lackey and his tune has changed. I guess he was paid.

[Cassie]

I am a previous member of CashTrade/CTIS who was paid some money 2 weeks ago. And Mac or whoever determined I was paid in full.. which I don't believe I was paid in full. Still a little under $4000 short as per the 400% agreement when I bought my CashTrade shares. Is there a written agreement some where between CTIS and the IT program, that the IT program would pay all of CashTrade, CTIS, Empire Trading, The Vault and possible others debts? Exactly who is the CEO of the IT program? Is it still Mac?

My question Richard exactly what is meant by "paid in full". Is it your out of pocket money plus 400% that was stated on the CashTrade website at the time of purchase or your out of pocket money and what ever Mac decided to pay at the time of the out of pocket payment and a small percentage and consider it "paid in full"?

Man, this hack attack by whomever happened over 2 years ago. Exactly December 5, 2002 on the CashTrade website.. CTIS was hacked as well? I remember Mac saying he knew who was responsible but never did share that info. with the members of CashTrade.

Cassie

[vagabond]

My son mabdog2 decided that I.T.and intgold were scams before he even checked up on either one.I have been with ctis for over 2 years,and have been paid several times.I am now a member of I.T. and have had my money doubled and tripled many times.I have my original investment back so if I.T. does not work I have lost nothing.I know nothing about high finance,I just know that I am making money.I suggest that a person invest just $5.00 in I.T and see what happens.

[Dreamer]

Well, i suggest that the person doesn't invest just $5.00 because there is no reason to give money to con artists. Why do people have this mentality that its okey to throw away $5 or $10 to test out a scam? All that does is fuel the scam even more so more and more people will lose their money and offer horrible testimonals like the one above.

I dont' care if the minimum investment is a penny. Nothing should be given to a guy that can't explain in detail how they are going to make their money.

And, no offense buddy, of course you would want newbies to invest just $5 because if people do that more of your positions will double, since all the system is is a trippler, or whatever.

[sisco50]

I doubt that legitimate investment firms allow a $5 minimum investment. Only doublers and triplers allow nickle and dime investment minimums. :(

[ycchen]

My son mabdog2 decided that I.T.and intgold were scams before he even checked up on either one.I have been with ctis for over 2 years,and have been paid several times.I am now a member of I.T. and have had my money doubled and tripled many times.I have my original investment back so if I.T. does not work I have lost nothing.I know nothing about high finance,I just know that I am making money.I suggest that a person invest just $5.00 in I.T and see what happens.

vagabond, welcome to matrixwatch, and share your opinion. I just have a few quesitons to clarify and would appreciate if you could give us some information.

1. May I know what is the range of profit you are taking about when you said you are with ctis for 2 years? few hundreds or few thousands or more?

2. May I know if I.T. is run by the same owner from CTIS?

3. It is obvious that you join I.T. pretty early, so you have a chance to cycle 2-3 times, that's the nature of all ponzi/pyramid scheme. You don't have to care because you benefit from the presumably ponzi or quazi-ponzi scheme. In this forum, we are concern about "newbies" and "latecomers" who join at the bottom of the ponzi-pyramid scheme as DONORS. Their money are going to pay the early birds (yourself) and the owner. They have nothing to gain from this investment. So, it is the purpose of our forum to warn "newbies" about the risk of joining a ponzi/pyramid scheme.

Now, here comes my third question. Do you really believe that I.T. is NOT a ponzi/pyramid scheme? If so, what is its business model that can make so much profit in such a short time? Thanks.

[concerned]

I know nothing about high finance,I just know that I am making money.I suggest that a person invest just $5.00 in I.T and see what happens.

Well, since you don't know anything about high finance, let me give you a quick lesson.

High finance usually involves investing a LOT more then $5.

[Cassie]

Hmm, Mac or Richard haven't been back here in over a week.. I guess innchef and I have hit a rare nerve with the questions and comments we posted.. I see more changes over there.. Again that's all Mac did with CashTrade and CTIS was keep changing things around to make it look like something great was being done/and or happening.

I'm sure Mac is dying to tell us all here what is really the inner workings of the IT program.. Don't be shy..

Cassie

[ycchen]

Cassie, feel free to "archive" the change on this forum. We really like to know how these scheme change their "excurses" or "claims" or "services" over time.

Yes, we are still waiting to hear more about the secret of the "success" of IT or CITS. If there are trully legitimate business with legitimate "other sources of income" (other than money from investors) to share with the small investors, then, they have nothing to hide, right?

Only illegit ponzi/pyramid scams have to hide behind tons and tons of claims and lies in order to mislead newbies to donate. :cool:

[vagabond]

At I.T. everyone,that is EVERYONE gets paid on or before their trade date is due,right now we are ALL getting paid 2 to 3 days early and we ALL making a lot of money.I will not be coming back to this forum ever again.I will ask 1 thing and that is,you people that have been spewing such hatred about something you do not want to understand,please do not join I.T. We have a wonderful group of people and we do not need you.Thank you and goodbye.

[Richard]

I haven't been back for awhile because I have had more important things to take care of - such as family!

If you think it is a scam, fine, there is nothing I can say that would change your mind.

IT does NOT rely on traffic or new members to generate income for members. How many other programs, businesses, ponzi's, pyramids, etc can make that claim?

[sisco50]

I haven't been back for awhile because I have had more important things to take care of - such as family!

If you think it is a scam, fine, there is nothing I can say that would change your mind.

IT does NOT rely on traffic or new members to generate income for members. How many other programs, businesses, ponzi's, pyramids, etc can make that claim?

You are correct in that. No anti-matrix person will ever believe that it is not a scam no matter what you say. Their mind was made up long before you ever joined this forum. Everything on the net that is considered a money making program is automatically branded a ponzi/pyramid scheme. :(

[mercinary]

Everything on the net that is considered a money making program is automatically branded a ponzi/pyramid scheme.

I think you need to be careful when you brand Matrixwatch with a reputation like that. For instance, I (for the most part) stay out of the threads that involve these other money making schemes because I don't have time to investigate each one. Maybe your statement would be fair if you said "Everything on the net that is considered a money making program is automatically branded a ponzi/pyramid scheme by <insert member name here>".

-Merc

[Dreamer]

Darn! I waited this long for a response to my pointed question asking why a legimitate operation would ask somebody who knows nothing about security to design their online operation.

And no, I dont think there is a single person here who thinks all money making programs online are ponzis or whatever. Its just when you cant explain your business model and cant answer very simple and fundamental questionss about your business, and it certainly looks the only way your paying off people is thru furutre investments than you have a problem.

But, I'm left wondering, if these guys are as good as you are making them sound, how come they aren't in the fortune top 10 yet off a $10 investment? Tripple your money in 15 days using a super secret system that can't be told? Gimme a second, let me look out the window and see if i see a flying pig.

[ycchen]

At I.T. everyone,that is EVERYONE gets paid on or before their trade date is due,right now we are ALL getting paid 2 to 3 days early and we ALL making a lot of money.I will not be coming back to this forum ever again.I will ask 1 thing and that is,you people that have been spewing such hatred about something you do not want to understand ,please do not join I.T. We have a wonderful group of people and we do not need you.Thank you and goodbye.

Farewell vagabond and enjoy the profit you made from all these secretive schemes. :) All successful ponzi-doublers take off because they garantee "cycle time", so simply by saying "everyone got paid on time" is obviously not good enough, isn't it? :)

Don't worry, we won't join a "business" that cannot even explain where they get their money other than from its members? How could we understand your "business" if you refuse to disclose how your business make money to share with investors, right?

PIPS, at least, show us a few startups with name of their CEO and address on the website, and open for their investors to visit. Even though I can't imagine how a 3 people PIPS fashion design house, open in less than 6 month, could generate enough "other source of income" to pay >700% interest rate to small investors, hey, at least they try!

Until now, we are still dying to know how I.T. generates "other source of income", and I don't understand why it is so difficult to answer? :(

[ycchen]

I haven't been back for awhile because I have had more important things to take care of - such as family!

If you think it is a scam, fine, there is nothing I can say that would change your mind.

IT does NOT rely on traffic or new members to generate income for members. How many other programs, businesses, ponzi's, pyramids, etc can make that claim?

Agree! Family is important, and I wish everyone here put family as priority instead of wasting too much time on the internet. :)

Yes, we know your claim already -- IT does not rely on money from members. Got it. Our question is: then what ARE the other sources of income? Could you give us a breakdown of the other sources of income that can sustain your high-profit sharing business? It would be best if you could give us a cash-flow (monthly or yearly) of each of the sources. That will be most convincing. :)

Note: Richard, believe me, ALL ponzis, pyramids and matrix schemes (except probably some doublers and matrices) make the same claim.

[Dreamer]

Well, it looks like the site was finally redone. Looks pretty much the same, except they tried to answer a few questions. Its interesting:

http://www.it4us.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4521&sid=10d3b5010b90b242a50cd2cfe6ae2beb

Thread in About Us Called "What we do".

Lets just skip the first 2 paragraphs. I'll quote the rest:

When you initiate your first portal purchase, you will be classified as a "Trader". Then as you progress and develop a track record that shows a committed nature, and that you are capable of accomplishing a professional trading attitude, we will elevate you to "Honorary I.T. Client".

When you are able to qualify for "Honorary I.T. Client" you will be entitled to some of the special perks that our "Professional Clients" enjoy. This is truly a prestigious position and you will be treated in a manner similar to that of the Professional Client.

Once you have achieved the rank of a Professional Client, you can then work your way through the ranks towards the position of VIP Executive Client. This is the highest position held by any Client. Once you have achieved this status, all aspects of our business network will be available to you, you will enjoy many of the senior "perks" which our VIP Clients now enjoy, and you will be in a position to take a more active roll within our network or perhaps to establish your own company within our network.

As you spend more time with us, and we get to know each other a little better, you will learn more about how to go about qualifying yourself for the positions mentioned above. You will also learn that, even as a basic Trader, some special categories exist and there are many gifts, specials, and general perks that you can qualify for as you work your way towards the rank of Client.

Can somebody inform me what any of this has to do with what they do? I guess what they do is label you or something?

---

Next thread on up. The last 2 paragraphs are not quoted because it has nothing to do with the topic. Just forgive these people...I don't think they really know what they are doing:

http://www.it4us.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4522&sid=10d3b5010b90b242a50cd2cfe6ae2beb

Those of us behind I.T. are not just One Group, Organization, and or Business. The founders of I.T. are comprised of several different groups, a number of organizations and businesses, which exist online as well as offline, and several thousand business owners and associated partners.

We chose to make this available to the people that probably need it the most, and because we were appalled at the fact that so many vicious and criminal minds were set on literately robbing the people that could least afford it. We are not here to save the world, but we will surely serve to help as many as we can. As we have mentioned so many times, we could simply turn a blind eye and go on about our business as usual and we would accomplish our financial goals in due time, but the more we witnessed the terrible ways of a lot of sleazy businesses, the more we wanted to at least do something.

Anybody have ANY idea who these people are?

---

Next thread up (I'm not going to post this url...too pointless)

Topic Why I.T.?

I'm going to not quote everything but the first sentence, since it lacks direction or lacks an answer to a question they posed themselves:


Well, why not? At least that was our take on that matter.

Why not stopped being a good answer when I was 5. I admit, when I was 5 it sounded pretty good.

---

Next thread up. Now, this should be the good one. How I.T. Works.

Ummm...I can't quote anything on this page since it doesn't really say. Sorry

---

Next thread up. How to trade. Ok, maybe it might say something:

Since we have been so busy and neglected to post step by step instructions on how to trade, I will (With thanks!) borrow "Darsebring's" accurate instructions...

Even manufacturers of shampoo bottles put directions on the labels and I'm sure they don't copy it from somebody else. This should have been an easy answer to answer.

---

Next topic up: Transfer not through clubhouse

I really have no clue what that is, but I want to post everyhing (boredom)


A few people have sent money to IT directly through their e-currency and not through their clubhouse. This will not work, it will just sit there as it has not gone throught the clubhouse portals.

Any funds sent directly and not through your Clubhouse will be treated as a refund and will take 30 - 60 days to process due to the sheer volume of information that must be searched.

Refunds taking 60 days? Why? They just want your money to pay cyclers without cycling you.

---

Now for the good stuff. About us -- Transcribed from a yahoo voice conference. Hey those conferences work pretty good that kim does, so they should do their own. But, since they make o much money they cant do it any other way than a free yahoo conference. They couldn't even get somebody half way decent at transcribing. Maybe cause I now transcribe informal conversations for a living i know how its done. Id suggest don't try to read it...it is so not understandable.

http://www.it4us.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4540&sid=10d3b5010b90b242a50cd2cfe6ae2beb


ammyjx: ok, sorry kids yelling...wont give everyone a head ache,one question from Tony was...is the trading that is being done able to be viewed or in the future will it be able to be viewed as in amounts of trades a day, losses, profits, etc?
corkygrace: Everything you are doing, as you walk through steps of education and learning more about the business, these are things you will pass onto your children and grandchildren and jsut kinda keep going.
corkygrace: Everything that we're doing right now, the portals are for you guys and may switch up.

Yes I would like fries with that. Pull up to the second window? Huh?

[Dreamer]

FAQ:

http://it4us.net/Questions.html

Q: Is there an age requirement?
A: Yes, in most cases the minimum age requirement is 18. In some countries this may vary. If in doubt check with your local laws or come to our Forum and speak with our staff about the matter.

Im just wondering...what exactly are we supposed to ask when we check our laws? Age requirement for what? Buying something? Drinking? Smoking? What exactly should I be asking when I check my local laws?


Q: When will I receive payment?
A: Payments will be received immediately following the close of each Trading Cycle. Once the Trading Cycle has concluded Traders and Clients will be paid immediately to their individual e-currency accounts.

Maybe its just a gramatical error. But, I really have no clue what they are trying to say. And, this question has been asked so frequently, this is their best answer? So, I pay the site at the close of the cycle?

So, my question is...what is a trading cycle? I guess nobody thought of answering that?

[Richard]

Dreamer,

If you are as unhappy with the situation as you claim to be, why are you still a member?

If we cannot satisfy you, I am sure there are plenty of places that will.

It is funny how you pick and choose questions and answers that you want, not ones that answer the questions.

Now I am back to important things.

[Dreamer]

Actually I waited a few weeks for you to answer important questions I had here but you failed to answer them

As for the rest of your last comment, i have absolutely no clue what your even tring to say so Im not even going to address it.

[ycchen]

Dreamer, have you visited I.T. forum? If you did, you will definitely find some "clues" on what is really going on behind the scene. lol Of course, the majority of the posts are about "welcome ... to our family ..." , very little useful information, as expected.

I don't understand how anyone could defend I.T. as a real business and not a ponzi. Just read the following quote, and form addition information, go to their forum and find it out yourself.

By the way, portal 1 is not available because the cycle time (excurse me, they call it "mature time") is only 15 days. Of course, everyone love to rush into portal one because of its short cycle time (excurse me again, it should be "mature time"). :D If I were the owner, I will definitely stop the Portal 1 instantly after my scheme takes off. Then, I will use the money I collected from other Portal to pay off all the Portal 1 members to create an illusion that everyone gets pay.

I would give an innovation credit to the owner of I.T. for covering up your ponzi in a pretty smart way.

Portal 1: Not available at this time!

Portal 2: Term 30 Days (1-month). Cost Range: $5.00 to $180.00 USD. Return 3.5 Times.

Portal 3: Term 90 Days (3-months). Cost Range: $200.00 to $500.00 USD. Return 4 Times.

Portal 4: Term 180 Days (6-months). Cost Range: $600.00 to $900.00 USD. Return 4.5 Times.

Portal 5: Super Portal: Term 270 Days (9-months). Cost $1000.00 USD. Return 7 Times.

ADD: I just found a "proof" for my arguement above, Portal 1 was stopped (or temporary killed) in order for everyone to be paid to create an illustion that everyone gets pay. Haha.. all this "ponzi" are SO predictable :D By Thunder (executive director).
http://www.it4us.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=33162&highlight=#33162
We had to take Portal 1 offline temporarily to allow all current P1's to be paid out, then it will be back, but as a $5 Portal 1 only, with a limit per person of 5 Trades, lifetime. This will take P1 back to what it was intended to be all along, an introduction to IT.

[ycchen]

By the way, you only need to be 13 or above to join the forum. :D Hmm... what are they thinking? You can trade at 14 years old? LOL.

[ycchen]

What is the relations between IT and CTIS? Here is the answer by Thunder (executive director).

IT and CTIS are two separate entities. IT is just one minor part of the Network of businesses that make up CTIS. As such it is not a continuation or reconstruction of the old CashTrade portal.

Some of the same people that make up CTIS are here, yes, but you will find that with many businesses, programs you look at.

CTIS has for a long time hinted at the number of businesses waiting and that make up the Network but most people only see the surface, not what is underneath.
Okay, it is still not clear? What about this explanation? The Ctis Network is in-deed a Business that is involved with some of the backing behind IT.
The Ctis Network is a very large associate of ours, and Ctis staff and CEO's are the one's responsible for the Web site itself, this forum, and some of the original formulas that led to the creation of IT.

It was in-fact by the constant persistence as well as assistance from The Ctis Network that led to the creation of this site and business.

Once Traders reach the ranking of Client, they will be provided with a choice. They can either further their trading experience by moving further into the Trading Firms and Corporations behind IT, or they can proceed to advance through various levels and positions that will be available throughout our network of businesses and or one of many businesses owned and or controlled by The Ctis Network.

Once our conference rooms are available we will cover all points regarding this in Voice. Especially for those that come here from Ctis or that were previously involved with CT.

Still not happy? Okay, here is another one to explain the outstanding debt of CTIS . Sound familiar? A new ponzi after the old one fails? :D Here is a new "assignment" for all the BORED members of this forum. If you want to understand I.T., you have to know its mother company --CTIS. In you are in real IT (information technology) field, you will know the word -- spin-off. Basically, "ponzi" I.T. is a spin-off of presumably the "ponzi" CTIS. Well, their "ponzi-ness" need to be further verified, of course. :)

We have had some questions from some of you that have known that Ctis was involved with IT and directly responsible for the creation of this forum. Some of you were confused as to why, if they were connected to us or assisting us, that their name had not been openly presented nor mentioned. The answer to that is this:
We have large plans for working with and combining forces with The Ctis network. They control a very vast network of online businesses, hold a remarkable online reputation, and have demonstrated an impressive amount of online experience and professionalism (this forum should serve testimony to that fact) . And their unending dedication to the principle of People Helping People has been most commendable, especially for a network of their size in the online business markets of today.

However, in order for us to proceed with the plans we have in mind, The Ctis network must first establish itself as a legal and licensed corporation. With our assistance they could have already accomplished this, but (as some of you may already be aware?) the Ctis network currently holds some outstanding debts. Rather than brush those debts aside, they are remaining fixed on their original plans and principles and will be honoring all of those outstanding debts. Once all of these debts have been cleared, then they will be taking the necessary steps to go corporate, and I imagine it will be around that time that you will see much more “Open” Participation for those at Ctis.

[ycchen]

If I am not old enough to do more sophisticated trading by myself, could I continue to be a "trader"?
http://www.it4us.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=26412&highlight=#26412
Hi, everyone,

Is it possible if we just remain as traders and not be promoted or to become clients later?
I think it might involve a lot of head knowledge and time to study and know how to invest as a client.
As I am not sure what a client supposed to do once he becomes a client, I was wondering if we don't want to become client can we continue in our trader's status and purchaase our portals as usual? Smile Smile

Here is an answer from Sylvia (I think she might be one of the owner, need to verify). Her answer is simply, "don't worry, it is all voluntary." Getrichnow,

I understand your concern. The thought of becoming
a VIP client may be a bit intimidating, and something
that may not seem within your reach at the moment

But I think that as we spend more and more time with IT,
the pieces will be begin to fall in place, the move to
becoming a client will be progressive, and we will be
learning along the way.

Remember getrichnow, that when you become a " IT Client",
you'll be entitled to some very special perks, and you may
not want to miss out on them.

However, the good thing is that all of this is voluntary.
You don't have to do anything you don't want to.
It's totally your choice whether or not you do business
with IT, and whether or not you choose to move up
the ranks.

Okay, not sure about the answer? Don't worry, here is the final word from THE authority -- Thunder!! The basic idea is, "don't worry, if you are only 15 years old or younger, we will continue to do the "trading" on your behalf!" lol.

I wonder how could anyone "gain more knowledge" if all you need to do is simply buy your spots in the various "ponzi" lines (ooops, they call them Protal, excurse me)?

As you gain more knowledge, the option will become yours, if you want to continue having IT do the Trades for you, that is fine, if you want to do some Trades for yourself, that is fine too.

We will never say - Time's up, you are now a Client and can no longer use our Traders.

[ycchen]

Sigh, we should have gone to the pro-ponzi forum to look for answer in the first place! :( Here is the thread on I.T. international. :)

Believe, this is one of the more informative and interesting thread on a well known pro-ponzi/pyramid forum.

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=3201

Let me just cite one post about the history of CTIS and much more! :D You will find that it is the same old story, one ponzi after the other! I.T. is obviously the latest one. Of course, habitual speculators on the pro-ponzi forum seems to enjoy the fun so far :D

CashTrade was a program that started if I remember correctly back in September 2002.. Their website was hacked in December '02 ( never did find out who hacked into it.. could have been anyone.. ).. Then started up again the end of December '02.. People were making money then CashTrade ended don't remember exactly when but the owner Ray Toler aka Macklin T. Blackstone aka Kiawanna (from New Zealand) (and has many aliases) promised every one would be paid back their money ( not in profit ) plus 400% the original percentage was 500%.. Well that has been well over a year and NOTHING!!!!.. Then they had a program named Rome (01/04), they were selling DVD, videos, etc. and MANY purchases were made and the products weren't shipped out and as of this dated I haven't of any refunds being made.. Then another program called the Vault in June '04 (just for the CTIS members) I believe and quite a few people put in 100's and some 1,000's of dollars and I have NOT heard any one getting paid on those investments.. There might have been one more program back in July '03 but never did find out who really was the owner of that program, but yes, people lost money with it including myself..

I personally have several hundreds of dollars NOT in profit in CashTrade and have NOT heard a single word from him since June '04.. This group is also known as CTIS.

I find it very odd that in the I.T forum that REAL names are NOT used in the forum.. People are putting in $$$$ into this program but are NOT deserving of the REAL names of the owner (s) up front without haven't to e-mail them?..

If any one decides to invest with them please use extreme caution.. and do your homework FIRST!!!.. I wish I did!!

Katie

Okay, a response from Manson (Thunder), the excutive director of I.T., and a senior manager who "held a position of management of over several thousand employees per year and has been in THIS business for many years".

My question to Manson.

1) I never heard anyone boast about managing thousand of employees PER year? Why PER year? That sounds very aukward, isn't it?

2) I.T. has been in business for MANY years?
I just checked the IT4US.net on godaddy.com, and found that it was registed on Nov. 7, 2004! Only 2 1/2 month old. The owner of the website is Richard Bennett from Canada! Hmm.... "Richard", sounds familiar? :) I guess Richard Bennett "rent" his website to Manson to run his "ponzi"? lol.

Katie,

I put forward your concerns to Masson, Executive Director of IT, and his reply is as follows.

All I will offer is to say that CTIS is on schedule (as far as I understand) to begin payments sometime in next week or 2 to every single outstanding account held by CTIS.

This is something Macklin and his people have been working for - for over a year now - Trying again and again to get their Ctis people to help out -- all they needed was workers, but no one seemed to care. So they gave up trying and instead turned to us.

We Do Care and we are very interested in doing much larger work with Ctis, but in order to do so, all outstanding debts currently held by Ctis must first be cleared. Once this has been accomplished then further arrangements between us, the benefactors behind IT, core members of Ctis Family, and other people helping people organizations can continue on with our original plans, which were in progress before these outstanding debts occurred.

As for the comments and views expressed within that posting, I strongly disagree. As an Executive Director that has held a position of management of over several thousand employees per year and has been in THIS business for many years, I would take the below related views with only a grain of salt. I would furthermore suggest they be careful how passionate they are about spreading such things, as it may very well result negatively for their own reputations once Ctis has recovered from these minor set-backs.

For individuals that only see one side of the coin and perhaps do not understand the full scope or influence of Ctis, it is easy to see how such views can be created and even more viral rumors created. As for anyone taking time to look at the full picture and or approach the man himself (unless they are completely blinded by their own shadow of greatness) they will find a man and an organization of people that are so honestly devoted to people helping people that it is down right frightening. In regards to the reputation of Ctis or Macklin T Blackstone in the corporate world of today, I would have to say that such characteristics of both man and organization hold very few equals in today’s business world.

I Thank you for sharing, and feel free to share my opinions and views with anyone you like.
Masson

[ycchen]

I am a previous member of CashTrade/CTIS who was paid some money 2 weeks ago. And Mac or whoever determined I was paid in full.. which I don't believe I was paid in full. Still a little under $4000 short as per the 400% agreement when I bought my CashTrade shares. Is there a written agreement some where between CTIS and the IT program, that the IT program would pay all of CashTrade, CTIS, Empire Trading, The Vault and possible others debts? Exactly who is the CEO of the IT program? Is it still Mac?

My question Richard exactly what is meant by "paid in full". Is it your out of pocket money plus 400% that was stated on the CashTrade website at the time of purchase or your out of pocket money and what ever Mac decided to pay at the time of the out of pocket payment and a small percentage and consider it "paid in full"?

Man, this hack attack by whomever happened over 2 years ago. Exactly December 5, 2002 on the CashTrade website.. CTIS was hacked as well? I remember Mac saying he knew who was responsible but never did share that info. with the members of CashTrade.

Cassie

Cassie, I finally have time to piece everything together. Of course, it is pretty obvious that all the schemes you mentioned above are "ponzi-pyramid", and they will fail sooner or later, and Mac and/or Richard knows that very well. I.T. is doing well because it is only 2 1/2 months old. All ponzi/pyramid scam do well in the beginning, that's the rule of the game.

I think you should probably consider yourself lucky to have all your money back from cashtrade/CTIS, with 24% profit, if I am not mistaken! Katie at the pro-ponzi site (moneymakergroup.com) and many customers of cashtrade/CTIS aren't that lucky. :)

By the way, Richard (or full name: Richard Bennett), we are all curious about your relationship with Mac (Kiawanna), or full name: Macklin Blackstone?

[Dreamer]

If you like he can write a 50 page essay on his relationship with whomever, but he wont, because he doesn't have enough time (like 2 minutes) out of his busy schedule. Don't you see that his dog needs petting? Thats a little more important than trying to answer pointless questions.

[Dreamer]

So, with all these great traders out there, and since its not a ponzi, why doesn't the management put their own money into portal 1, let it ride for a couple months and pay off everybody completely?

[sisco50]

Dreamer, your sarcasim never ceases to amuse me. :)

[ycchen]

So, with all these great traders out there, and since its not a ponzi, why doesn't the management put their own money into portal 1, let it ride for a couple months and pay off everybody completely?

This is a question that NO "ponzi/pyramid" supporter/owner could answer. If it is so good to be true, why don't they keep it to themself? Why do they NEED to share their profit with so many tiny investors?

For PIPS, it is about mission to save the less developing countries!

For I.T., it is more generic response. It sounds something like, we want to share the profit with public, so everyone is happy, or something alike.

I have seen exact a quote from Manson (Thunder) on his I.T. forum, but I won't dig it out. Frankly speaking, I am pretty sick of all the "welcome" posts that flood the forum :eek:

[Cassie]

Do I feel lucky that I only made 24% on my investment when I was guaranteed 400%?. No, I don't and I bet the people in IT wouldn't like it if they were guaranteed one percentage and got a lower one.

I think that Thunder is Richard but I'm sure that he would like to correct me if I'm wrong.

Now, Richard's relationship with Macklin T. Blackstone now lives in New Zealand aka Ray Toler born in California well all I can say is that Mac's step father's (Tom) picture from Mac's Mom's website and Richard Bennett's picture that was in the CTIS forum looks IDENTICAL to me as well as to many others. I'm sure that Richard would like to clear that up for us. Richard are you Mac's step father? I did see some one else ask that question before they got banned from the CTIS forum last year. Maybe they were getting a little to close to the truth.

I do wish every one in IT well but personally I don't trust any of the ones running the IT program. Nothing was ever up front to all of the CTIS members only to a chosen few.

Cassie

[ycchen]

I understand and respect your feeling of being cheated. If I were you, I would probably feel the same way. Since many did not even get their 'principle' back, so you are 'relatively' luckier than those who lost everything.

Thanks for sharing a lot of new information on this forum. Wow..... see what I mean by how easy to run an online ponzi/pyramid scheme? You can always have multiple identities. :(

Richard, could you clarify two questions for us.

1) Is your ID "Thunder"? If so, who is Masson? I thought "Thunder" is Masson?

2) Richard, is your real name Tom? Are you the step father of "Macklin T. Blackstone" who was the owner of CTIS and Cashtrade (a failed HYIE)?

I know Mac is on this thread too, may be Mac could explain this to us as well. I believe your I.T. customers would like to know all these complex relations as well. :)

[sisco50]

I wonder how Prime-HYIP can pay 3% - 7% per day, every day for 180 days? Could it be a scam? hehehehehe ;)

[ycchen]

I wonder how Prime-HYIP can pay 3% - 7% per day, every day for 180 days? Could it be a scam? hehehehehe ;)

If you want to talk about something else, please open a new thread. This thread is about I.T. international!

[Cassie]

Now as far as Masson Storm goes, I would look in the direction of being Mac. Reason being I don't see Mac's name listed in the member section just Kiawanna is with no posts. Also it is my understanding that Mac and Masson/storm share the SAME e-mail address. I don't think Mac would have a program and NOT post!! Also a few Executive Directors have more than name in the IT forum. If I am mistaken please correct me.

Cassie

[ycchen]

Exactly the reason we are doing what we are doing, and the manner for.

If your serious(?), then you show me. Join me in chat or PM me with a phone number and when time allows I will answer ANY question that you have, and then you can bring those answers to print in your own words. For me, even finding the time for such voice conferences or heck for that matter being able to enjoy a few moments away with my family is a bit of a stretch at this time. So needless to say, taking the time to explain all in print is most certainly not an option that is available to me.

I only came here in the first place by request of a Friend. Join us? Ignore us? Really does not matter. It is for YOUR benefit that we have made any attempt at all.

Thank you and Good Day
Mac

Cassie, I am not sure if I understand you correctly. The above quote is where I saw Mac sign at the bottom. His forum ID is Kiawanna. That is why I know Mac is posting on this thread.

If Masson = Thunder (IT forum ID) = Richard. And Manson = Mac (sharing the same email 'might' be the same person. Then Richard = Mac! (just might be).

That means, the owner of I.T. = the owner of cashtrade/CTIS.

It is very confucing here. Would anyone of you (Richard or Kiawanna) like to verify all these confusing ID with our forum member, and your I.T. & cashtrade customers?

[ycchen]

Okay, Richard is not Mac. They are two different persons, execept they both hold a "executive director" position at I.T. international.

Richard (full name: Richard Bennett)
I.T. international is registered to Richard Bennett who also owned http://www.goldeagledesigns.com.
According to the I.T. international profile, Richard is the "executive director", see his avatar below
http://www.it4us.net/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=4

Kiawanna (from cashtrade/CTIS) or Storm ( or Masson Storm at IT international) sometime use Mac at the end of his post. His avatar is also "executive director"
http://www.it4us.net/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3

So, we have two "executive directors" on I.T. international. One is Richard (or Thunder on IT) and the other is Kiawanna/MAC (or Masson or Storm on IT). Hmm... I guess it is okay to have two executive directors on a same "ponzi" :D

It is obvious that Mac was the owner of cashtrade/CTIS (a failed ponzi) and now an executive director of I.T. international. . So, does it means, some of the profit made by I.T. international is going to pay the outstanding debt of cashtrade/CTIS?

It is a common practices, use one Ponzi to payoff the other. For example, Empowerism new ponzi line --MVP donates 25% of its profit to empowerism's old ponzi line -- RSVP in order to keep it alive. It is obviously unfair to the customers in the new line. But using a new ponzi to rescue the old one is a very commn practice among the ponzi/pyramid community. Use MBA word -- best practice! lol

I.T. members might like to keep this in mind. Your invested money might be leaking toward paying off the debt of cashtrade/CTIS.

Hey, look at the bright side, when I.T. dies (eventually), Mac and Richard will probably open another ponzi to payoff all the I.T. customers. So, you "might" have nothing to lose. :)

[ycchen]

Now we know Mac (owner of cashtrade/CTIS) is the executive director of I.T. interntional), the other question is : Who is Richard Bennett? What is his relations to the failed cashtrade/CTIS?

Let's take a look at Richard Bennett own website:
http://members.shaw.ca/richardbennett/ , try to click on the 400% return bar, and it will take you to http://members.shaw.ca/richardbennett/ctis.htm


400% Return on your Investment!

The CTIS Network offers a number of business and online services for the general public.

We also host an On-line/Off-line investment system that is helping us to achieve & fulfill our VISION of: People Helping People!

Members of our CTIS Organization are part of our One United Voice. We all speak with One United Voice that is currently expanding to include off-line members, offices, and community centers around the world. Together we are spreading our message & VISION of: People Helping People!

What sets us apart from other similar online systems is our focus and overriding dedication to TEAMWORK, as well as our dedication to the members of that team, and the work which each one of them is involved in. If you wish to hear a portion of our One United Voice, then you are more than welcome to visit our Open Team Forum, where you can speak directly with members of our Team.

If you have come here looking to join our Team or to learn more about our Investment System, just go Here: CTIS Investments Of course, you cannot click on the CTIS investment link (www.kiawanna.com, or cashtrade) because it is dead. The transfer fund service (also kiawanna.com) is dead as well.

I guess Richard should be at least a strong promoter (if not a co-owner) of cashtrade/CTIS. :)

[ycchen]

Okay, Richard Bennett was the Zone Director and Lead Admin "Spirit of The Zone" in the CTIS administration.

I don't think you can call it a "spin-off" in this case, because of two reasons.
(1) The mother company -- CTIS dies.
(2) Two major operators -- CTIS CEO (Mac) and its Director (Richard) -- set up a new company (IT4US.net)!

If it is not a spin-off case, then it must be a "one ponzi after the other" case. :(

[ycchen]

ooops, there 3 more executive directors on I.T. international!!!
Mystic --> Joanne, (avatar: CEO) of CTIS.
Cloudy --> ?
Elaine --> Elaine, "Administrative Assistant & Network Coordinator" of CTIS[/b]

Wait! There are more CTIS core team member migrate to IT! It's funny that almost "all" core members from CTIS administration have become IT administration, holding almost identical position! :D

Technical Director and webmaster
Quillspirit --> Quillspirit, "Lead Admin & Creative Design Director" of CTIS
butterfly -->PapillionSpirit, "Admin & Creative Design Director" of CTIS

Site Admin
New Zealand --> Robyn, avatar (admin) on CTIS

Security Consultant
Laura --> Laura, "CTIS Family Investigations" of CTIS

Cafe CEO
Beth T. --> Beth T., "Kim's Cafe" on CTIS
Annette C. --> Annette C., "Kim's Cafe" of CTIS
Margie --> Margie, "Kim's Cafe" of CTIS

[sisco50]

If you want to talk about something else, please open a new thread. This thread is about I.T. international!

So sorry, I read the title of this thread as "Is this program a scam". I saw nowhere that it said IT only. So sorry!

[Dreamer]

Actually Sisco is right. He is keeping the thread on focus of is something a scam.

Is it just me, or is anybody else having problems accessing their forums? I accessed it okay earlier today but now not any more.

[Dreamer]

This website is currently offline.

Please try again later. Sorry for any inconvenience.

If you are the webmaster of this site, please submit a helpdesk ticket,
because if you see this message, you may have run out of bandwidth.

This website is hosted by http://www.quillspirit.net

hrmmm...Such a successful group of traders can't afford higher bandwidth, if that indeed is the problem.

[ycchen]

Except for Cloudy who seems to be the ONLY new executive director of IT. The rest of the KEY administration, including 4 executive directors are ALL coming from the CTIS administration! There is NO way IT could claim that they have very little connection with CTIS. It is the SAME group of people led by MAC and Richard who are setting up another ponzi after their previous one -- cashtrade/CTIS dies "intentionally" (or unintentionally? Hacker? lol).

That's explain why the design and the set up of two ponzis look almost identitical!

Sure, they I.T. international is doing well at this take-off period like any ponzi scam. Sooner of later it will run out of money, and it will end up EXACTLY like cashtrade/CTIS. The only different is "What excuse would they use for the closure of I.T."! . Believe me, we have seen all these scammers come and go, and they have everything PLANNED up in their mind already, including the excuse to exit the scam. It is just a matter of time of excuting their exit plan. That's all. :mad:

ADD: I have reliable source telling me that Cloudy is also a customer of CTIS back in the old days. So, here you go, every single core TI administration are tie to CTIS/Cashtrade!! :mad:

[Dreamer]

hey mac, i'll respond here, since this is the other *wink wink* site. i doubt your even here anymore, so I'll respond on your site. Here is my direct responce to you:

http://www.it4us.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4471

Hi my name is Shaun. I've identified myself. What else would you like to know about me?

Now that I identified myself, you should identify yourself.

I'm not entirely sure what the relavance of that post you did was for, so if you could give me the snippet of what you think might impess me, I'd like to know. Here is something I found interesting:


Between 1991 and 1996, the company had compounded annual returns of 53 percent as it became the largest lender in its sector, according to the magazine.


Thanks about right. Now, take portal 1. 3x in 15 days. So, whats the annual return from this portal? Oh, lets just round to about 2trillion x return. So, a $10 investment staying in portal 1 (since there is some kind of backing to it), staying in the system for a year should net you about 25trillion dollars.

Now your talking about a business? There is a difference between a business and what your claiming to be...investors trading. Did you want to have a discussion about businesses? Lets see than:

Walmart id THE BIGGEST retailer internationally, with sales of $915billion. It made more than the next 4 combined. Even than, your claiming a rate of return higher than walmart made.

For a benchmark, costco, which is a wholesaler, probably prices their inventory at 10% markup. Walmart prices it about 23% probbly. Typical small businesses price their inventory at about 100% markup, and speciality stores could do up to 1,000%. The reason why they are able to achieve such a high rate above cost because they are most specialized and they don't turn oer procut as quickly, so when they make sales, they need enough cushions to survive anohter year.

But, now lets use those numbers. They might be flawed, so if you have better numbers, go ahead and provide them. Walmart will mark up their inventory 23%, and when all is said and done, they make a net profit of 3.2%. Thats far from your trillion times business you got going. But, lets give you the benefit of the doubt. They Have a total sales of $191.3billion dollars, wth an inventory level of 21.5billion, equating to roughly turning over their inventory 9.1x per year, which is about one time every 40 days. Just think...the worlds biggest retailer can't double their money in a year. Their RoE is about 19%, which means, at the rate they have been expanding, if it continues, it should double every 5 years. Your offering trippling every 15 days.

Now, for a more personal experience with better real world numbers, when pokemon was the big craze, we were selling out inventory at about 3-5x cost, with an average turnover rate of about every 3 weks. We were only able to sustain that level for maybe 3-4 months, and soon dropped down to the normal 1.65x. Now, there are businesses that can get away with higher markups, however, adding inventory did not mean that we were still able to make that kind of money with more inventory. Lets say we spent $5000 on product one week. In 3 weeks, lets say, we sold out, and now had $20,000. If we tried to take that $20,000 and buy $20,000 inventory, we might just break even and add $15,000 worth of inventory. So, there is a limit.

So, my challenge for you. Can you give me the numers of any business, who lets say, has a return of equity over 100% for a year? Now, remember, thats just doubling their money in a year, not trippling it in 15 days.

Now, want to talk about investing? Can you name me any person with figures who has doubled their money in a year? And, don't say the secret people working for you. I want a real website with real statistics. I think I heard Kramer making 36% a year on his stocks. Is there anybody better than that that makes more on a steady basis?

The caps were done to lessen your workload? Why, is it really too much work to make 3x the amount of money in 15 days?

Can you tell me why i should join a training class when I asked flat out and you werent able to come up with a satsifactory response?

You know what. I'll take you up on being offended when the laughet starts about trippling your money in 15 days. that will be my next goal. To find ANYBODY that will laugh at me with those returns. Or, are you hoping that when I ask and they laugh, that I will take it wrong, and think they are laughing at me, or laughing that somebody think there is a program to tripple your money in 15 days?

Actually, do I hide who i am? Of course not. So, you don't need to go with your bad self trying to pvove I have an agenda. I have been quiet here. The question was raised that how does this look like a ponzi. I answered it pretty well. Now, I look foraward to your responce proving me wrong. At the "other place" you ran away, unable to say anything. You made excuse after excuse why you couldn't respond. I'm not here for an argument. WE can happily argue at the other place if you like. But, I responded to how it resembles a ponzi.

Now, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by asking questions I'm sure people would like to know. However, it looks really bad on your part when you can't even answer them honestly when you just make excuse after excuse.

Now, go pet your dog. In the mean time, I look forward to your responce. You can respond here or there. Either way would be appreciated.

Oh, is this going to be another one of your businesses that will fail and you 'll be happy about that it failed? I mean, this group of traders have been around for 6 years, longer than your businesses. Why didn't you just give them $10 to invest in portal one and sit on it for a year until the national debt is cleared?

[Dreamer]

Oh, I challange anybody here for that matter to correct my numbers, or post better numbers that might help out this site. I was trying to find the best retailer. Are there any that make more than 100% ROE? I was thinking 7-11 since they are a high markup high turn over rate, but I couldn't find their exact numbers.

At any rate, I'm looking for these numbers to bettter help out Mac:

1. Retailer with the quickest turnover rate. I'm thinking businesses that specialize in buying inventory at 10% wholesale and turn it over have the quickest turnover rate since they cant really afford hold onto the merchandise. Getting the markup rate for them, gross profit, net profit, and Return on Equity would be helpful in trying to find the highest performing industry.

2. Retiler with the highest ROE, net profit, or gross profit. Of course the bigger the better. Saying your uncle bob sells things at fleemarkets at a million times cost just wont cut it for me.

3. Any known single investor or investment firms what their yearly profit rate is, or even what their highest profit rate is.

Remember, I"m looking for the very best performers out there. IT can offer a 2trillion times turnover rate in a year (though they've only been online for 2 months). I'll be happy if I can find a real business that doubled their money in a year, let alone made it 2trillion times higher.

[Dreamer]

Oh, a final thing.

Does anybody have the times when portal 1 was open? I would like the beinning and end point of each time it was open. And, the system works is they pool all of their money together for one big trade, right? Well, with this information, I want to cross reference to the testimonals section. Now, if its legit, all trades should have matured at the same time, since it was all for the same trade, right?

So, from the ending point of the end of the portal being opened, to the first time a trade matured, i want to look at how the money market trading system was for that period of time. From there, I want to see if any numbers can be hacked up such that a 3x return was impossible, even if you picked the highest performers.

Does anybody know the dates in which the portals were open?

[Ekid]

Nope - but if he said four days, then whenever the domain was created would probably give a pretty close guess, yeah?

And alot of people were bitching at the forum because "new money" got paid fast right off (give 'em a taste of blood, I guess), bypassing the people who'd already had a fast one off.

That's how they did it at Cash Trade, too. And wicked nasty mean to anybody that dared to notice or comment about it.

[Ekid]

Sad....Very sad. But guess it just shows that you really do not care do you?

Well .... Carry on with your game here -- and feel free to twist these words into anything Your Heart desires. I have no time for games.
Some of you requested FACTS, I offerred an option. If you wish to make it into something it is not, feel free.

Why is that "Sad"? How does it being "sad" mean the poster "really does not care"? You are not making any sense. Again. Or would that be still?

:shake:

[ycchen]

Kiawanna is Mac, the owner of CashTrade and CTIS, and current the "executive director" of I.T.!

When Dreamer challenge Mac and Richard (I.T. domain owner and another executive director of I.T) about how their business model could possibly make so much money, they do not dare to answer.

All they can say is "sad...very sad".....:shake:

We are still waiting waiting for answers to the following questions.

1. Why their business model could make so much money to share with all the investors?

2. Why every single "executive directors" and major administrators of I.T. comes from the failed Cashtrade/CTIS? If Cashtrade failed, how could Mac and Richard convince their customers taht I.T. will success, if they are running the same business model?

3. Is the customer's money they collect from IT going toward paying the outstanding "debt" of CTIS?

[Dreamer]

Subject line from testimonals page:

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:44 pm Post subject: Portal 1 : one Dec 2nd and one Dec 8th matured

Does anybody know any currencies that have trippled in value from dec 8 - 10th, or crashed to 1/3 its value?

---

Edited: Actually, even if they sold short, the best they could do is double their money. So, if they sold short $10,000 banking on the fact that the yen wont be there tomorrow, they can only make the $10,000, unless the yet became worth a -$10,000 or...I have no clue.

Hey Mac, can you divulge your inner secrets on what currency increased 3 fold in those 2 wonderful days in early December 2004? Or, is the past still prapitatory?

[PTVroman]

Thanks about right. Now, take portal 1. 3x in 15 days. So, whats the annual return from this portal? Oh, lets just round to about 2trillion x return. So, a $10 investment staying in portal 1 (since there is some kind of backing to it), staying in the system for a year should net you about 25trillion dollars.
Now, I dont' know where you got your education, but where I come from, there are 24 15-day periods in a year (with 5 days left over, probably for holidays). If you invest $10 and tripple your money every 15 days, after 1 year, you will only have $2.8 trillion. Now, c'mon. Isn't that a lot more believable?

[Dreamer]

You are so right. See, in my math I just rounded down at 14days. So, 2 weeks, and 52 weeks in a year.

But a 2.6trillion rate of return is much more believeable. And, remember, for questioning it, we are just sad sad sad.

So, lets say 2.6 trillion dollars. The world population is 6.4 bilion people. AFter 1 year of investing that original $10, they can give everybody like $400, or is it $4,000? I'm not sure.

Talk about helping people!

[Panda]

I just spent over two hours looking through every post in this entire thread. Looks like one poster in particular must have nothing better to do than spend hours posting in here. Some people just need to get a life. :shake:

Seems to me that the majority of the people in these forums are mature adults that can make their own decisions how they wish to invest their money. I always get my seed money out and play around with the profits, so if the program/business folds, I really haven't lost anything have I? It is my perogative, and my money.

I have a rather diverse portfolio with investments in 8 different venues, including some stocks. So I have income coming in all the time from many different sources. I have never laid all my eggs into one basket. That is a sure way to lose everything. So, hyippro stopped paying. I got my seed money back already, so no big deal. Same with IT. Got my seed money back, so not concerned if it folds. I am using the returns and with my current strategy, I stand to make a mil by the end of this year. That is with a 50-50 strategy too.

So instead of trying to fix something that isn't broken, with all the negative posts you have made here, you could be in some serious profit by now in IT. I don't care what their history is. History is just that....history! Nothing you can do about it, and I have always learned from my mistakes, so why can't they?

I also would prefer having someone handle my trades for me who is knowledgable, then for me to openly trade and lose my pants and then some. Does it matter how they manage the trades? Is it really THAT important that you have to post the same old posts all the time about it? Give it a REST.

Either trade, or don't trade. The choice is yours. Just don't try and cram your opinions into others.

I was under the impression that Matrix watch was about matrixes, and ponzi schemes. I was very surprised to find a thread in here about IT. IT is not a matrix or a ponzi in any sense of these words.

And who cares if so-and-so is related to so-and-so? Or how many names one has? Nitpicky to say the least. Who the heck cares if the website looks unprofessional? As long as it WORKS. I never judge a book by its cover. The crappiest looking book could have words of great wisdom in them. An ugly person can be a beautiful person inside. That is all that counts.

Ok, subject dropped. I am off to do some more trading and make more money.

:D

[Dreamer]

Actually it is simply a ponzi and nothing more. There are no traders nothing like that. I've asked very pointed questions to which they were unable to answer. Its fine if you want to disregard the past. I have no problem with that. But, if they invested their own money in their own traders, they could turn $10 into over a trillion dollars in less than a year.

Now, you seem like a knowledgeable fellow. I have nothing against you. After all, its your conscious at night time that has to deal with the fact that when you participate in ponzi schemes you are breaking the law and stealing peoples moneys. But, since you know how it works, I won't stop you from doing it. But, you belive their lies about some magical trading system, so I don't think you know how it works.

Yes, I have no life. Yes, I post here often saying the same things. But my point is the same. I ask very simple questions regarding the truthfullness of these site owners, and the best they can come up with sad sad sad. Remember, I didn't start this thread. Somebody asked if it was a scam. And that was the owners best responce. Sad sad sad.

Things aren't what they are cracked up to be. They cannot defend their business model, so its just a ponzi that is wrapped up in a pretty ribbon. If you like, I can spend 5 minutes spelling out what is going on behind the scenes. But, I have a question for you. Can you give me any value of any currency that trippled in value december 8-10?

[Ekid]

Because the same excuses are always made, that's why. "We've been hacked", "Mac has GOT to spend more time with his family", "He's exhausted" ... all have been used more than once. Oh! And "we are rebuilding the database, so spends will not be honored at this time. Of course, feel free to continue making them."

And if anybody crosses the boy, they don't just get spanked. They get tossed. Hardly professional however you try to justify it.

[Dreamer]

The thing that irks me the most is all the lies. Why do they think they have the right to completely fabricate their business just so they can steal money from you? I mean there is absolutely no truth to anything they say, and there are people, like you, who actually believe his lies?

Its not so much the scams he pulled off in the past. Its his continue lying so that people can give him more money. Yeah, maybe you take out your seed money and play with your profits. But this jerkwad i playing with peoples hard earned money by prentending to do something hes not.

[CYBOPOB]

I think that any SCAM should be punished and not supported in any way. Too bad we can't do Lynch trails anymore. Back in the ol' days these people would suffer what they deserve. Also those who defend the SCAMers, keep in mind - statistics show that most of the scamers victims are people of older age and low income. That's could be your grandma dummies...

[mercinary]

I'll just pop in here to mention that Cybopob is partially right. Victims of scams are statistically proven to be mostly made up of people who cannot afford to lose any money to start. This list includes:


The elderly
Teenagers or College students
The poor


-Merc

[bravehoststamps]

Hi, guys,
This is my first post in this forum, but I am not new to fighting Internet scams of different sorts. Just wanted to share an interesting fact with you. I was doing a DD on International Trading at www.hyipdiscussion.com . The case turned out to be really tight: I have digged out a plenty of intersting facts about this program which have substantially shook the validity of their business. Mac and Richard have even joined that thread, but were immediately presented with some irrefutable points regarding their "business". We've even got a victim of one of their previous scams to help me investigate this matter. He has provided me with some amazing yet really scary facts about the past of this gang. One day, when I was about to check the thread in order to answer some more questions from the forum members, I found out that the thread had simply disappeared!!! At first I thought the forum admins had deleted it for some reason, but all of them say they didn't do it! IMHO, the forum had to be hacked and this could be the possible reason for the thread to vanish (I would like to point out here that it was the ONLY thread missing!). What do you think it could be?

BTW, here are the messages a victim of theirs has sent me (he was posting under the username RebelYell). Some of them sound really fricken scary.

First message:
I think it was about two years ago, when Mac headed a place called CashTrade, that I got the exact same treatment you have. He attempted to shame, bully, and manipulate me. He's insane. There never is anything except a little, little man behind the curtain, claiming to be the great and powerful Oz. People who've waited patiently for spends from two years ago have been banned recently for daring to cross him.

He disgusts me.

Here's another piece of the puzzle - don't know if it'll help you any (or if you care):

http://www.ctismembers.net/zone/

Rebel

Second message:
We'll see. He kept $100 of mine - didn't honor it, didn't return it. Why? Because I voted the truth at one of those hyip sites - he wasn't paying. They went on my IP address, tossed me from the program, threatened to report me to my ISP for lord only knows what. Claimed they knew what was being said in a private business forum I own. Claims that some native american tribe he's affiliated with does some voodoo cia whatever - I mean, seriously crazy, paranoid schizophrenic 'stuff'.

Btw: he says his name is Macklin T. Blackstone? He was Ray Toller. Changed his name as an adult for no logical reason I can discern. .... maybe he's running from something stateside.

Who knows.

Third message:
If you wish, you can anonymously quote me. I REALLY don't want to cross swords with that man again. And look; you're saying what needs to be said, but nobody's hearing you. They choose to be deaf.

He might still put together that I'm 'me', but it's not gonna be because I threw my body in front of the train.

Basically I just wanted you to know for sure; you're right. You know whereof you speak. Mac's bad news. It's not just a "personality clash".

And I hope your system is teflon-coated, because I wouldn't put a hack-attack past him and his minions.

Fourth message:
Do me a favor. Cut-n-paste my responses to an admin. If they seriously feel anything would be gained by my stepping forward, have them contact me.

With promises to protect me.

The guy seems to be really terrified. I am sure there was some "dark story" - I just can't clearly see the complete picture of it.

What do you think of all this? Is it true - what he is saying? Should we do anything else with this, and if so, what?

[ycchen]

bravehoststamps, welcome to matrixwatch!!

Thanks for sharing this freaky story :( I.T. or cashtrade sounds really like a cult than anything else. :( In any cases, please continue to keep us posted. Thanks.

[Cassie]

Wonder how many other people Mac has done this to when trying
to get to the truth?

Cassie

[ycchen]

If you are confused about the real business of I.T., here is Mac's explanation. Get it? :D

If you don't get it? Just remember -- UNITED Everything is possible! (I wonder if "everything" includes repeating the story of cashtrade/CTIS again? lol)

p/s I like to thank the person who forwarded the following message to me. :)

http://wwsn-forums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3326
----------
I searched the forum, maybe not well enough (I'm open for suggestions), and have never found any concrete answers on the "business" of IT. What bank do they use?
-----------

You are most correct tongue.gif And you have not found anything "Concrete" because it is simply not there
Now -- the FULL reason behind that can be covered in our training classes once those are available, and for those that show a True Desire to learn such information.

But for the "Quickie" I will offer this ----

As we have explained in many of our voice conferences (Yahoo) and have tried to cover in print when available -- we are currently working to complete Corporate structuring with one of our Primary Networks behind IT. Once that occurs then some very large Corp. mergers will take place between ourselves and some of the (As of yet) unidentified Corps backing IT. We will also be establishing IT as a legal and Corporate backed Trading Firm, recognized as such both online as well as off. In addition we will then have an additional Trading bonus, which will be in the form of our Own Stock. But unlike most corps first being established, our Stock will already have an enormous Value coming out the gate -- due to the hundreds of businesses both online and off that already exist within our Networks and building corps.
In addition to this the Value of that stock can therefore be increased by further participation and expansion of such businesses as each of our traders move up to higher Client levels and (Depending on what they or you decide) will have the options to participate directly within such advanced opportunities and or businesses.

The Primary reason this is True -- especially at this time, is simply for the matter of Protection, both ours as well as yours.

What we are doing and working so hard towards (Something that spans much further back than just IT--going back 6 to 8 years now) is something that has NEVER been done before ANYWHERE! And in completing these goals of ours we will be making many enemies.

Enemies from "Businesses -- if you wish to call them that" which will be loosing thousands upon thousands if not Millions of doallrs per year as we do our Best to educate all of you and provide you with what we have available.

Our greatest enemies however will be on the political front, they already exist, and we already have our equal counter parts in place -- and or working to be in place and or "Office" and perhaps with our UNITED assistance, that will gain those position of "Office" an well, you know, could only be a Good Thing for all of us

Anyway, all of this I have shared -- I know -- is very vague. All I can say is for now it will have to remain that way. But the best advice I can give to anyone about IT is just allow time. The more time that passes, the more we will have to share, and the more growth we will experience. For those that wish to be a part of that growth, it only costs $5

In the meantime we will continue to do our best to Share with all of you and "Educate" you as much as we are able without of-course jepordizing the integrity of our system nor placing at risk all that we have worked so hard for all of this time.

I Thank You for your posts and we Welcome ALL conversation such as this. Your caution, concerns, and your Doubts are ALL welcome. It is conversations like these that will lead to the largest revelations later on
As we said, what we are doing has Never beeen done before -- and it certainly has never been attempted in the manner we are going at it(Which kinda makes us think we may be more sucessful than others that have tried and failed in the past )

So since no one has ever seen anything quite like us before -- you therefore have no basis for understanding and it will take time for us to prove ourselves to you -- it will also take time for us to evaluate all of you and for each of us to grow more comfortable working together and taking this business where we wish to go with it

Remember: Together anything is possible. UNITED Everything is Possible
Take Care all
Mac
PS: Hope that was all clear, rushing as usual and was interupted several tims during -- will make a better go of it once we get classes established

[bravehoststamps]

...unidentified Corps backing IT...
Does he mean his past scams by this? lol
They indeed form quite a large network as of yet! lol

[ycchen]

Want to know more about IT...... "until the time arrives ..." :D

SAD...very SAD :shake:

http://it4us.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4874&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=ponzi&start=0

Tis a point I continue to stress to others. Many are concerned about what is being said about us elsewhere on the net -- and IMHO -- so what *L*

There is a few points to understand and keep in mind on this front:

1) Ofcourse people are going to be cautious, concerned, and doubtful of what we are doing -- Because what we ARE doing has NEVER been done before ANYWHERE online nor off -- and we are doing Both Very Happy
IT is new to everyone, and many -- as we educate them -- will come to see the light Yeah 2 but until that time arrives, there will be many questions, concerns, doubts, discussions, ect and All of that is totally Kewl -- as it will all serve as education in and of itself.

2) But you have to remeber the above point Only applies to those people that really DO Care and are really interested in The Truth and Knowledge. Unfortunately their exists individuals that do not care about these things. They claim to, they will swear to time's end that these things are important to them, but in actuallity they could care less. It is all about spreading negetavity and chaos whereever they go. -- Me I have never been able to understand such people-- but we have all seen them -- have we not? Sad

3) The 3rd point to keep in mind (and this is an Important one) Just think of all the programs out there that are Ponzi's, scams, and or Sort of legit (But not really) businesses. What do you think THEIR Opinion of what we are doing is? As we spread our message and Educate all of you -- how do you think that will effect Their Business? And if you were in their shoes, what would you do to protect your business -- whether it be only that of a scam or not?

Many of us, even myself, have fallen into convo's or battles where we end up trying to defend ourselves or IT, but all you end up doin is going around in circles with these individuals. And the reason is -- is because THEY DO NOT CARE. They are either Chaos Spreaders(For lack of better term) or people that are being Paid to undermine us, confuse you, or if nothing else just spread as much negativity as they possiblly can.

For those of you that have run into these "Individuals" or situations, my advice to you -- is RELAX! Very Happy So what if they talk -- Big Deal!
I can assure you some of the bigger boys are doing much more than talking *L* But even that we welcome Wink Because they have NO CLUE what nor whom they are REALLY dealing with. But we shall be educating them as well Very Happy

Okay, going from serious point making to babbling now -- none of which I have time for, so will shut up now Razz

Take Care all
Mac

[bravehoststamps]

Mac has got an amazing talent of brainwashing people... Well, I guess this is how cults are formed. BTW, there's another cult named "Reality Millions". The guy promises to make us all multi-millionaires withing the matter of a few years with the initial spend of only $49! :eek: Their website is located at http://www.realitymillions.com . Any backstage info on this one?

[Ekid]

That whole "Joint Venture" big goings-on babbletalk has been spewing for over two years now. Also, what's with the fake Elizabethan speak? Tis what-the-hell-ever. He was born and raised in the States: "Tis" my ***.

[Dreamer]

If you want to discuss RM, post a new thread.

1. Isn't their business model is trading currencies? They are the only ones online and offline trading currencies?
2. When are these classes starting?
3. If the business is about trading currencies, what will this class teach?
4. Why should I have to wait for classes to learn what their business is all about?

The guy is a complete moron. We are being paid to question their business and to find the truth? Or, because he is so damn successful we have to protect our illegial businesses?

Come on mac, if your legit, how come u didint give your traders $10 last year and how come your not a trillionaire?

[bravehoststamps]

If you want to discuss RM, post a new thread.
OK, I will. But for me it's just another obvoius scam, full of bull****. "Midas" is the only one who will indeed become a multi-millionaire by the time this scam folds.


1. Isn't their business model is trading currencies? They are the only ones online and offline trading currencies?
2. When are these classes starting?
3. If the business is about trading currencies, what will this class teach?
4. Why should I have to wait for classes to learn what their business is all about?
Those are some good question. In a short while we'll see what kind of BS Mac is going to come up with.

The guy is a complete moron. We are being paid to question their business and to find the truth? Or, because he is so damn successful we have to protect our illegial businesses?
Well, for us he is a complete moron, but just take a look at the IT cult he has formed and all those people who are blindly defending his program. There will be some justice when they all get burnt in the end. I'm just curious about the excuse he will present this time. Hacking again? :shake: Hmm...

Come on mac, if your legit, how come u didint give your traders $10 last year and how come your not a trillionaire?

BTW, what did the complete story last year look like? I know very little about it. How long did that scam last and how did it end? It would be interesting and useful for me to read more about this in order to be able to predict IT's future more precisely (with all stages included).

[ycchen]

Well, for us he is a complete moron, but just take a look at the IT cult he has formed and all those people who are blindly defending his program. There will be some justice when they all get burnt in the end. I'm just curious about the excuse he will present this time. Hacking again? :shake: Hmm...

Well, I don't think Mac or any owners of a revised pyramid/ponzi scheme are moron. :) They are mere con artist to be more precisize. However, I do believe that there are more innovative con artist and there are some really bad copycat.

A more innovative one gives more "convincing excurses" or "lie better" or "cover the pyramid better", so they could establish a cult faster than the bad copycats. Once the solid believers have reach certain critical mass, the whole scam will go into auto-pilot mode because these early birds will defense their own interest AT ALL COST. That's the magic formula of running any revised pyramid/ponzi scam.

So far, I think Mac is a so-so con artist, not the worst one but definitely not the pioneer. His excuses are lame and not convincing at all, and he has a pretty terrible track record (cashtrade/CTIS) that he failed to cover up.

Moreover, their IT ponzi has not reach the "critical mass" yet! So, you can see MOST of the forum members who are singing "welcome, welcome" are from the administration -- the EXACT same bunch of people who run the failed cashtrade/CTIS!

I am very doubtful that IT will reach a critical mass before it stagnant and dissappear again, but we shall see.

[bravehoststamps]

I am very doubtful that IT will reach a critical mass before it stagnant and dissappear again, but we shall see.
How long do you think this ponzi will last?

[ycchen]

How long do you think this ponzi will last?

Hard to say. Ideally, with so many experienced (note: same team from cashtrade/CTIS) administrators monitoring their forum for any negative posts, they should expect a lot of money pouring into their site at this stage.

If the newbies get to our site (or other anti-ponzi site) first before they get brainwashed in their cult-like forum, then IT will have great difficulty getting the critical mass that they need to "take-off".

Also, it also depends on whether habitual (or seasonal) speculators would join and promote their sites. That's very crucial as well. To find these habitual speculators, go to moneymakergroup.com, see if they are promoting I.T. or not.

It is obvious that I.T. wants to be another PIPS or YMMSS, but with all the negativity on both ponzi sites, they would actually do better by keeping a distant from those two established ponzis. :)

I am sure they will stay around for another 6 months. But it does not mean that they will have good cash flows.

Since Mac does not really have the skills to package his ponzi, I am pretty sure that I.T will not get off the ground even though they might not close in the next 6 months.

So, here you go. A so-so ponzi with little to moderate cash-flow, not enough to attract the eye-balls of habitual speculators. :)

ADD: Of course, if the cash-flow is low, they can always make it looks good. :) How do you know if they receive $1/day or $10000/day? You never know because all ponzi/pyramid scam operate in a blackbox. The more transparent it is, the faster it dies. That is the main reason that neither MAC nor RICHARD can explain their business model. Not because they have any "business secret ". They have NONE! They secret formula is how to package a PONZI to look legit . sad... very sad ... :shake:

[Dreamer]

I guess the only thing left is to assume that this site is a scam. There was a question in the forums, i forget what it was, but I responded truthfully. I suggesed that anybody interested in the program look for ANY evidence that there are traders or ANY evidence whatsoever there there it is NOT in any way a ponzi.

I also asked for simple backpeddling proof for anybody to come forward and show me any currency market that trippled in value Dec 8 - 10, using those dates based on the dates in the testimonal.

Now, those are 2 very very simple questions to answer if it was legit. Offer the name and contact info of any of the traders. Something at least more specific than thier generalizations. Also, offer the name of a single currency that trippled in value during those 2 days. That shouldnt be too difficult in retrospect.

But i guess banning me was appropriate because their answer is always wait for our training classes to learn to do what we are doing. The training classes will start about a week after we close this scam.

Well, i challenge anybody to find those 2 answers.

[Ekid]

My last post disappeared, about the update.

[Dreamer]

All of my posts from the past few days have been deleted also, so i think there might be server problems. If its not back in a couple of days, can you repost?

[ComplexKid]

Yah, so did mine. There was a big update on the IT forum that said...nothing? Apparently they are now a global corp setting out to save humanity?

Damned if I know. Can repost if anyone is interested in trying to translate. It looks like English--but it's not ;)

[Dreamer]

Well, somebody should repost it. Maybe I'll find it and repost it. The site is such a joke.

[MatrixWatch]

Sorry about the recent problems with deleted posts. I am aggressively engaging our host provider on this issue and demanding answers. I'll let everyone know what I find out.

[Cassie]

Pre- Big Announcement:


"PART ONE


Attention All IT Members We Are Now Officially LIVE!!

The purpose of this announcement is –

To inform you of what is now taking place;

To explain what has recently occurred;

To allow each and every one of you to understand how all of this affects you, where you each fit in, and what part you will play in our continued Growth.

With this announcement and everything that shall follow in the coming days, weeks, and months, we will also be establishing where we are all collectively headed.

What all of you need to know and understand is that we our now officially a Corporation.

We do not yet have all of the “bells and whistles”, fancy titles, legalities, or all of those little technicalities completely in order at this time, but you must also understand that this “Process” is not an overnight occurrence.

It takes time to establish such things properly, since we must start somewhere -- we are, of course, starting here.

However, Make No Mistake – We Are In-deed a Corporation!

We are, in fact, larger, certainly more powerful, and most certainly growing faster than most corporations that are currently out there and/or available. The reason we are larger, stronger, and growing faster than the normal breed of “corporations” is exactly what makes us Unique. This uniqueness once IT is fully established and operational is what will allow us, on a global scale, to make the differences and changes that we intend to make in the world around us.

You must also understand that we do not have the luxury available to us to take IT off of the “runway” or out of operation while we make these changes or are establishing all of those individual technicalities.
You see, I.T. is running at full speed right now, and is only growing faster each and every day. In order to maintain the Integrity of our Corporation and all of what we are currently doing, we cannot stop nor allow ourselves to derail what IT is currently accomplishing.
Therefore, we must make these changes while IT is still running at full speed and gaining momentum.

However, now that we are a Corporation, we have a “Plan & Structure” that will allow our “Operational Offices” to continue on with their daily functions. Meanwhile, we can implement the changes that are required without upsetting the “Balance” of IT at all.



Over the course of the coming days, we will be educating all of you (for those that do not know?) on what a Corporation is and how it works, and most importantly how each of you fit into the “Structure” of things. Even for those of you that do possess that “corporate knowledge,” these lessons will be equally important to all of you, as the I.T. Structure and that of Our Corporation in and of itself is very unique. We are, in fact, “Creating” something that is all new and there is not another corporation on the face of this planet, nor throughout history, that possesses what we have available to us, nor is capable of accomplishing that to which we are now doing. All of these things you will come to know and fully understand through the creation of our Corporate Structure and our classes that will become available in coming days.




Now, before we go any further, allow us to share with you one of the Most Important “elements” of our Corporation.

This “element” is that of Our Mission Statement.

Our Mission Statement defines Who We Are.
Our Mission statement tells anyone who views it who we are, and what we do, and it also sets the Foundation and Principle for that of our Corporate Structure.

Once you have viewed our mission statement, you must then Learn IT and fully understand IT.
What we mean by this is that each and every word within our Mission Statement holds great significance. Each word has substance and meaning and carries with it a very profound message. Even the orders in which the words are arranged and the order they fall in, defines our over all message that much more.
Once you truly understand our Mission Statement, you will then know Who We Are and What IT is and what We Do. You will then hold a greater understanding for what IT is all about and have a clearer idea of how you, yourself, may possibly fit into the “Structure” of things.

Our Mission statement is:

“The Global Creation of Wealth
To Give Hope
To Fulfill Dreams
To Bring About Prosperity and Happiness Through
People Helping People”


Okay now that you have viewed our mission statement – STOP! Take a moment and re-read that. Think about IT. What does this say to you? With what you already know of IT, how does this apply to you? Once more READ IT Again.


Now, let’s break IT down.

Global: We are an International Corporation.

Creation: We are the First! There is none before us. There is no other Business, Corporation, nor “System” in existence today that is capable of doing what we are now doing, nor of Creating the Wealth that we shall be creating on a Global Scale.

Wealth: Wealth has many definitions: Funds - cold hard Cash, Freedom, Education, Knowledge, and Unity etc. We are, therefore, in the Wealth Creation Business on a Global Scale because we provide all of these things.

To Give Hope: Everyone needs Hope.

To Fulfill Dreams: Everyone has Dreams. From the homeless to the world leaders, they all have dreams, and you must first have Hope in order to fulfill those Dreams.

To Bring About Prosperity and Happiness: As you are gaining that Hope and Fulfilling those Dreams, you will gain Prosperity. Prosperity is what is needed in order to achieve true Happiness.

People Helping People: And all of these things are accomplished and possible through nothing more than People Helping People!

“The Global Creation of Wealth
To Give Hope
To Fulfill Dreams
To Bring About Prosperity and Happiness Through
People Helping People”


PART TWO



Okay, now you know our Mission Statement. Now you should have at least a partial and or clearer idea of Who we are and What we do? If you do not, then go back to the Mission Statement and spend some time with it, until you do

“The Global Creation of Wealth
To Give Hope
To Fulfill Dreams
To Bring About Prosperity and Happiness Through
People Helping People”



Let us now cover what will be taking place following this announcement.

You will all begin to see and be part of an enormous amount of changes. These changes will be offline as well as online changes. Up till now the offline version of I.T. has been linked, yet somewhat separate, from the online version.
No Longer!
Effective immediately, we shall be working to “Merge” all aspects of Offline and Online Structure and operation. Certainly (Some) areas of the Online will have to be different from the offline, however the structure, ranks, overall Plan, and many areas of the Operations Office we will be working on merging together.


While all of this Structural Transformation and Merging is taking place, we will also simultaneously be educating all of you, or at the very least beginning that process. The process of your education will begin with nothing more than a bit of review to establish and or determine just how much of IT all you have really absorbed and accepted, as that is a VERY Important element to your overall training, participation, and value to our Corporation.

As for the specific “Structuring” process, that will all be covered in greater depth during the course of your “Corporate Education”.


PART THREE



We have now covered the General Announcement, Our Mission Statement, a little bit about the structure of Our Corporation. So in effect we have now briefly touched upon the “News”, Who We Are, What We Are, and where we are all collectively headed. So now let’s cover a little bit about the HOW of IT all.

Just ‘How’ exactly do we plan on living up to our Mission Statement?
How do we plan to make the changes in the world around us that will allow each and everyone of us to Give that Hope, Fulfill those Dreams, Give and Spread that Prosperity and Happiness, and do all the things that our People Helping People Corporation is dedicated to doing?

Online I think IT should be pretty obvious (?)

For everything that is not yet obvious or has not yet been revealed to all of you, that will most certainly come in time throughout upcoming education. As you advance through the Corporate Ranks of this company much more detailed information will become available to you and you will hold a much clearer understanding for the primary “Fuel” that maintains this Great Corporate People Helping People Machine of ours.

The Offline however is really where the True Strength of Our Corporation comes into play. This ever so powerful, yet perfectly simple Corporate Machine literally “Shines” in the offline arena and will be in-fact bringing a whole new age of understanding and education to the world around us as a whole!

So allow us to now share with you what is currently taking place offline -- Keeping in mind of-course that each and everyone of you online will be aiding with this work, and we will of-course also be sending representatives to other countries to train and begin process of setting up our Corporate Branch Offices, as well as bringing many of you here to NZ to Train as well.
Another thing to remember or understand on that point is that the Head Office is located here in New Zealand.
In each of your own perspective countries you may have your own policies & procedures, you may even have your own methods of operation, and you will certainly hold your own structure, but all countries will be bound to follow the “Standards” that have been set into motion and are currently being established here with the Head Office in New Zealand. All I.T. corporate branches world wide will be bound to the same Code of Ethics and subject to any policies and or procedures issued by our own respective committee’s and or Board of Directors.

The HOW Plan:
The “How Plan” is basically what is currently taking place here within New Zealand.

We were originally looking at a separation of accounts between Traders that would come in with their own funds, as apposed to those that would be gifted in. IT however became very obvious very early on that there was no need to ‘Target’ those individuals that had the available funds in which to come in, at least not with ‘The Plan’ that we are now moving forward with. Therefore every offline account is a “Gifted” Account.

This is how the gifting process works:

Delegates and offline Trainers will be appointed to positions and bound by procedures as well as very profound principles that will allow them to locate those “needy” individuals. These individuals will then be gifted into I.T. and or provided with some form of gifting or education (Once again the creation of wealth being applied) that will allow them to benefit and or empower themselves.

For those individuals that will be specifically gifted in, they will receive $100 to begin this ‘gifting’ process, they will also receive a brand new computer that will have everything they require to get online with, as well as an account by which to access the internet. All of this is of-course provided by I.T.

(Please also Note and understand that any individual not immediately falling into the whole “Gifting Cycle” of things will still have educational and wealth empowerment options available to them that can be provided through the delegates and or regional trainers)

At the beginning of the “Gifting Process” giftee’s will enter into a 5-Month Agreement. All appropriate paperwork will be signed and this “Agreement” will secure them to that of a 5-Month plan - The legalities of that ‘Agreement” protects us, as well as them and just insures that the Integrity of this Plan and that of Our Corporation is maintained.
These ‘legalities’ also allow us to set the foundation for the hope that will be given, the wealth that will be created and the ultimate happiness that can be achieved throughout this gifting process and that of our own dedication to helping these people.

The reason we provide the computers up front is because these members will need those systems to get online, get into the forum, and begin as well as increase their ‘Training’ and I.T. Education (Perhaps some of you are getting a clearer picture of how and where you may fit into this? )

Okay so now they are locked into this 5-Month Agreement, have a brand new PC (with internet connection), have $100 worth of trades in the system, and are beginning their I.T. Education.

Now in 5-Months time (Note: no maturities or payments will be received by the giftee during this period) that one little $100 Trade will have produced a rather large amount worth of collected maturities.

At this point we could very easily release all funds to the giftee and considered that account closed. However! What exactly would that do to help that needy person?
You must always remember that HELPING these people is the whole reason for doing this in the first place. And most of the people that would qualify for these gifted accounts would just go out and blow that amount of money and be no better off than they were when they started. So, instead we do things much differently.

Two months into the Agreement it is Mandatory that they get an Accountant. I.T. will provide a recommended list of approved accountants for their region. It will then be their choice to select which one they think would be best for them, then I.T. takes care of that as well.

Now this accountant has 3 months by which to properly evaluate this person’s financial situation. At the end of the 5-Month Cycle, that accountant will then report to us the exact situation that this person is in, in regards to their finances and debt owed. I.T. will then pay that debt owed (From maturities collected) in full.

So now if nothing else we have just made that Needy Person Debt Free.

We then take 25% of those funds and place into future Trades (Turning at that time all account information over to them so all future maturities and SD’s are paid into their accounts directly.)

At this time we also take back our original $100 gift and make a mandatory Gift of $100 to fund in one other person – thus supporting the whole People Helping People aspect of things. Then any remaining funds are released to the Giftee and that 5-Month Account is therefore closed.

We have now Truly helped one needy person to become debt free (Within a 5-month period of time), have provided them with a computer, Internet connection, gained an accountant for them, provided them with additional Corporate Trades for added security, provided them with 5-Months of in-depth I.T. Education and I.T. Family support, and within all of this has most certainly accomplished……




“The Global Creation of Wealth
To Give Hope
To Fulfill Dreams
To Bring About Prosperity and Happiness Through
People Helping People”


Now STOP RIGHT THERE!!



Go back and read that section again and take some serious time to consider and truly absorb what we just shared with you.



PART FOUR



Okay so by this time we can only assume that you have about 5 million questions huh? *S*
That is most understandable and a good majority of those questions will be covered as we establish that Structure, get individual ranks and positions established, and begin your I.T. Education. There will be however some questions that will simply have to remain unanswered until you reach higher levels within the corporate structure.

The #1 Question that you will all have to ask yourselves is…..

ARE YOU READY?

And are you prepared to take IT Seriously?

Now we know of-course that one Big question to come to everyone’s mind will be how can we possibly afford to do all of this? All we can say at this time is that some of you will know this answer semi immediately, and some of you will simply have to wait until you move further up through the ranks.


But the “Cost” of this “Process” is not the difficult part, the Structure, and training is where our real challenges lie. There are Only 2 Principles and or Guidelines that MUST be maintained in order for all of this to work.

#1: That we maintain the Integrity of Our Corporation.


#2: That we remain honestly Dedicated to The People and that of our Mission Statement.

Now we can easily maintain everything that we have so far mentioned without jeopardizing the Integrity of This Corporation.

Where we run into a bit of a complication is when it comes down to the whole “Time Factor”. Meaning just how soon we can make all of this happen.

Within the next several months the “Cost factor” will no longer matter – after all we are in the Wealth Creation Business

However until that time we would very much like to begin the process of bringing chosen candidates (Chosen from within your ranks) here to New Zealand to train, and or begin the process of sending NZ Trained representatives out to each of your respective locations. We would also like to begin the process of a type of “Granting of Education” Plan that will allow us to Empower and aid the needy that may not (For whatever the reasons) fall into the gifting “agreements” mentioned above. But in order to do all of these things at this time, would take away from the “Fuel” as it were that drives the above effort.

We have however come up with something that would allow each of you to aid us in these goals and desires (Should you desire to do so) while also allowing you to benefit yourself. Basically once again comes down to People Helping People. If you could aid us in advancing our time schedules, then we could aid you (through a small incentive) to increase your individual trades.

Details concerning this “Incentive” & “Assistance” can be found with that of the Bonus Portal. If the Bonus Portal and or details there of are not available by the time this announcement is issued (?) then just allow a day or so, and they should become available.

So there you have it. Who We Are – What We Do – and a few basics on How We Intend to go about IT all.


“The Global Creation of Wealth
To Give Hope
To Fulfill Dreams
To Bring About Prosperity and Happiness Through
People Helping People”


CLOSING


We realize that all of this is awful LOT of information to absorb all at once. It is also VERY important that you READ through it Several times over. Study IT, Discuss IT and really take some serious time away from the PC to absorb IT and to contemplate everything we have shared here. Keeping in mind of-course that all of this is nothing more than a mere drop in the bucket to everything else that will be following from this point forward.

One other thing that is very important if not “Critical” is that you LET GO of the “Internet Mind-set” of things. That sort of thinking has no place here and will not allow you to accomplish everything that is now set before you.

So there you have IT. Take Time to absorb IT – PLEASE!
And we shall be getting back with all of you very shortly.

Sincerely,
Executive Directors and the current Board of Directors IT (NZ)


Oh and one last thing: The setting up of our Corporate Structure and appointment of your individual ranks will certainly not be an easy task or an overnight process. However once IT has been accomplished then everyone’s jobs and responsibilities will be a lot easier to manage and govern. What this means to all of you, as well as all of us (In Head Office), is that our jobs and responsibilities will be much simpler. There will not be any “Slaves” in this Corporate Structure. Once that Structure is set, then we can all go back to having “Lives” again. Thus allowing us to properly place focus where that focus needs to be placed and therefore making us all that more efficient at doing what needs to be done. This will also allow us, as a Collective Whole, to accomplish our goals and effectively and efficiently maintain …..


“The Global Creation of Wealth
To Give Hope
To Fulfill Dreams
To Bring About Prosperity and Happiness Through
People Helping People”
_________________
VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT PENDING.
Will be out soon -- Whole New Ball game boys and Girls FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=kewlsmile"
Watch out world here IT comes"

[Cassie]

The other Announcement:

"When you get to “The Announcement” Please make sure that you take your time with IT. Read it, study it, re-read IT, re-study IT, discuss IT, analyze IT, -- ALL of these things will be Very Important. We also need you to take some time AWAY from the computer and REALLY Seriously consider what is being shared with you and what each of you (In your own way) is going to be responsible for.

I.T. is No Longer an online business – We are a Corporation! And for each of you that desire to be so (?) You will be employees of our Corporation, and as such you will hold an Enormous Responsibility to the rest of the world. A Responsibility that we expect you to take Very Seriously!

In addition to our I.T. Employees, even general Traders will play a large roll with all of this.
Allow us to Explain:

All Employees will have to sign paperwork, employee agreements and provide certain documentation (just general stuff). We realize of-course that there may be members among you that do not really SEE IT yet or at first and would perhaps have a problem with providing such documentation (?) Or, some of you may simply decide that you do not want to be employees (For whatever the reasons) but would still like to be involved and or are simply just interested in the client Trainings and Education. Any and all of these “Categories” are fine and will still allow you to remain as part of the corporate “Team” and or “Family” should you so choose to.

For those that do not fall into the ranks of “employees’ you will still have options available to you to be volunteers should you desire to do so. Where-as those of you that are simply interested in the Client and Trading Education, will still have these classes and options made available to you at a later time.

One thing to understand with the classes that will begin in the next few days, these will be primarily for those of you that (Do) fall into the ranks of employees. You will be receiving Training, Corporate Education, Education on The Structure, Plan, and Operational Information and or details concerning certain areas of this corporations, and you will be learning as well as deciding just exactly HOW and WHERE you fit in with IT all. In addition, you will also be receiving Education that will allow you to climb that “Corporate Ladder” as well as move you on towards the original “Client Rank” and or teach others that may not hold a position such as yourself.

Okay, so enough about that. The MAIN thing is that you realize just exactly HOW Serious we are about all of this and that you Drop the general “Internet” Mind-Set before proceeding on to the Announcement.

The Announcement can be found here: (http://www.it4us.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=75893#75893)
_________________
VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT PENDING.
Will be out soon -- Whole New Ball game boys and Girls FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=kewlsmile"
Watch out world here IT comes"


We shall see if Ray. Mac, Masson or whoever the corporation is registered under will follow through this time. Wishing the IT members MUCH success if indeed they can follow or for that matter understand Mac's lastest announcements. :crazy:

[Circuit]

IF it is legit and successful, I, too, wish all members luck with their endeavors.

However, most people who are so long-winded without saying a darned thing are usually trying and succeeding to draw people's attention away from the core.

Usually the sign of a con... :nono:

[ycchen]

legit? IT is almost "identical" to the failed ponzi/pyramid scam (cashtrade/CTIS) designed by the same discredited group of scammers from CTIS. :shake:

[Circuit]

legit? IT is almost "identical" to the failed ponzi/pyramid scam (cashtrade/CTIS) designed by the same discredited group of scammers from CTIS. :shake:

Yes, Ycchen, I understand that. I have read their forums, the fanatical posts & replies, etc.

I was merely attempting to use a little tact.

[Ekid]

Yah, so did mine. There was a big update on the IT forum that said...nothing? Apparently they are now a global corp setting out to save humanity?

Damned if I know. Can repost if anyone is interested in trying to translate. It looks like English--but it's not ;)

In another forum it was stated that last time Mac got these grandiose ideas and went all wigged out over them - that was the beginning of the end.

[Ekid]

Now this accountant has 3 months by which to properly evaluate this person’s financial situation. At the end of the 5-Month Cycle, that accountant will then report to us the exact situation that this person is in, in regards to their finances and debt owed. I.T. will then pay that debt owed (From maturities collected) in full.

So now if nothing else we have just made that Needy Person Debt Free.

:eek: WTF is he SERIOUS?! No matter what they owe, no matter how deeply in debt they are, this messiah-complex-ridden git is going to pay it all off.

Riiiiiiiight.

[ycchen]

I read the announcement. It is probably the most elaborated BS in the ponzi/pyramid world! See.. here is the problem. I don't think ANY of their adminstration, hardcore supporters, nor habitual speculators over at moneymakergroup.com believes a single word stated in the big announcement. HOWEVER, all these people who benefits from the IT scam would comfortable use this BS annoucement as a way to intimidate newbies so they can recruit them to donate at the bottom of the pyramid.

The logic is very simple. If you have nothing to offer, you better make your scheme (scam) looks super complicated. Since nobody understand it, then it MUST be "legitimate"! The purpose is to intimitate those who might NOT be confident about business in general. After being intimidated and guilded by scammers/supporters, misinformed newbies will surrender their money at the bottom of the pyramid. :shake:

[sisco50]

I read the announcement. It is probably the most elaborated BS in the ponzi/pyramid world! See.. here is the problem. I don't think ANY of their adminstration, hardcore supporters, nor habitual speculators over at moneymakergroup.com believes a single word stated in the big announcement. HOWEVER, all these people who benefits from the IT scam would comfortable use this BS annoucement as a way to intimidate newbies so they can recruit them to donate at the bottom of the pyramid.

The logic is very simple. If you have nothing to offer, you better make your scheme (scam) looks super complicated. Since nobody understand it, then it MUST be "legitimate"! The purpose is to intimitate those who might NOT be confident about business in general. After being intimidated and guilded by scammers/supporters, misinformed newbies will surrender their money at the bottom of the pyramid. :shake:

Hmmmm Let me see. You intimidate me on the net so I give you money? ROTLALMAO Not bloody likely! That's the most laughable statement I have heard in a long time. What do they do to intimidate you? Do they hold a gun on you on the internet while asking for your money? ROTFALMAO

[matches111]

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Always avoid programes that smell fishy , or simply determine the minimum amount you are willing to loose.



THE MOST FASTEST GROWING PROGRAME ON THE NET
THAT WILL COMPOUND YOUR INVESTEMENT +INTREST DAILY

[Ekid]

Anybody know why their forum is now called "I.T. Parent Body"?

[ycchen]

Anybody know why their forum is now called "I.T. Parent Body"?

Parent Body? :eek: what does that mean? :confused:

[Ekid]

Maybe that they've finally come completely unhinged?

[Cassie]

Also they will have an "Elite Security Force" for on and offline.. Found a post on this on the MMG forum.. Wonder who needs the protection? :eek: :confused:

Cassie

[Ekid]

Latest update:

Greetings fellow I.T.’ers

This is just a quick update to let you know some basics, as to what is going on.


1st of all we know there are many of you that have some concerns, and are mainly just frustrated by all of the recent delays and ups and downs with server issue’s and trading times. For those of you that are frustrated or concerned I would suggest you read this recent post by our Director of Information and Technology (Ian), as I believe he covers that issue very well. Thank You Ian.

http://it4us.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11979

As Ian has mentioned there is a number of things currently going on in the background to greatly improve both that of our corporate structure as well as to improve “Trading” conditions for all of you.

The following is just a few of the things that are currently taking place and changes that are currently under development.

1) First of all Suzanne and her assembled team (you know who you are) have been doing a Fantastic job organizing (In the background) various assignments that will allow for greater organization and direction of al volunteers, and developing services and resources that will aid in guiding and teaching “Newbie’s” , as well as helping all volunteers to understand exactly How and Where they fit into our corporate structure.

2) Where-as Shawn, up to this time, has been solely doing all of our scripting and a majority of our “Tech” work by himself, we have now appointed staff and are making the necessary changes that will allow an entire “Department” to work on and be responsible for all such areas and issue’s. Needless to say, with the Managing Director position that Shawn now holds, he simply does not have the time to work on things himself. That “Issue” has now been corrected as, under Shawn, working in correlation with our Director of Tech, and our New Security Advisor ( to be announced and introduced at later date) and our new Security Forces, this Technology department will be releasing Shawn from his overwhelming technical workload – not too mention allowing us to truly speed things up in that department.

3) We are also currently hiring on and training many new tellers that will allow us to better organize payroll and therefore increase the effectiveness, efficiency, and maturity times of all payments. Hopefully within the next couple of weeks -Pending training and authorization, we will have a very Large and well organized payroll staff, that will be able to effectively handle trading numbers far superior to what we are now currently paying on. And of-course as those requirements grow, so shall all necessary payroll staff. The above mentioned Technology department is also working to build and script New Technology that will aid in this process and make all duties of Payroll far more efficient and more secure.

4) We are also in the process of training and appointing new Processing Staff (as well as creation of New Processing Department) that will be able to handle all areas of Processing and “Black hole” issue’s, and will be capable of processing this information at around 5 times faster than what is currently in operation. As right now there is only a couple of very dedicated and entirely over-worked staff responsible for this. Those staff members will be moving up to higher positions within the corporate structure and will be effectively replaced by an entire Department worth of trained and authorized staff.

5) Also in the next couple of weeks we will be reviewing, interviewing, training, and authorizing a large number of security individuals for our own Elite Security Force. This security force will exist both online as well as off. So for all of you that have military and or Law Enforcement Backgrounds or experience that have recently submitted applications, you should be hearing from us within the next couple of weeks.

6) In addition to all of this we are holding an International meeting here in New Zealand next week with a few KEY members of our Head Office. Shawn, Myself, our corporate advisors, a few members of the board and other influential heads of staff shall be at this meeting and will be setting into motion and beginning the process of things (In regards to our Corporate structuring and offline Presence/Operations) that will – needless to say – allow us to organize things in greater detail and provide all of you with much more direction and information.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing all of you can do to assist us as we are working on all of these things, is to discuss, compare notes and Seriously STUDY that of our MISSION STATEMENT and the last 2 BIG announcements which we have shared with you. As these announcements are the beginning of your “Education” and contain the majority o everything YOU require in order to organize yourselves and prepare for everything else that we shall be sharing in coming weeks. But before we begin any of that “Sharing” we NEED to know and most importantly be able to SEE what progress all of you are making with that, and for all of you to be able to SHOW us that you are in-deed ready for the next step. And how you do that of-course is by talking with one another and going over such things as our MISSION STATEMENT and WHY we are Here and that of our Corporate Structure and how each of you fit into IT.

With all of the progress being made in the “Background” and all of the departments and various other “Issue’s” mentioned above we are hoping to have a SOLID GREEN LIGHT available within the next 24 to 48 hours. Once this GREEN LIGHT comes on, then things should begin running much smoother and continuing to increase. We have unfortunately had a couple of unexpected “Twists & Turns” recently that caught us off guard and led to delays that we did not expect. And because we were caught off guard by them, we did not (Sorry) take the time to cover them in detail, but instead focused solely on getting them resolved. We are however quite Thank Full that these things occurred and that we were caught off guard Because due to that “Event” our operational structure is 20 times more secure, and in coming weeks will be far more Effective and Efficient than before.

So there you have IT I hope that was clear enough for all of you? (Rushing through here) If not Clear Enough, then please re-read or discuss among yourselves, as we know there are Plenty of you that are already involved in the above mentioned activities and or DO Understand all that is currently taking place and WHY. So PLEASE discuss all of these things among yourselves and let us know when you have a FULL Understanding for everything currently taking place and are READY for more.

Rock On Gang & Take care. You are all doing fantastic and we certainly appreciate everything that all of you are doing to assist us with the building of Our People Helping People Corporation.

Mac
PS: Also with this up-coming International Head Office Meeting: We will be taking pictures and possible also recording Audio that will be shared with all of you.

[ycchen]

International Head Office Meeting in New Zealand? That means all the "branch offices" around the wrold is joining Mac in his HQ in New Zealand? Hmm... I did not realize that I.T. is already a multinational corporation!? :rolleyes:

Hmmm.... could anyone tell me the address of Mac's Head office (or Head Quarter) in New Zealand? lol

[Ekid]

He used to sign off all his posts with his full address and phone number, maybe webarchive.org could kick something up?

[25baY]

Hi All!

What's this I hear about IT having a smart card? Anyone know anything about it?

http://it4us.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17221

[200_K_already]

Trading in currencies can be very unpredictable. Seems it would be difficult to tell a client when they will make a certain amount of money.


More expert knowledge from someone who probably makes fortunes online. :shake:

Actually, IT are way behind now (as of 23 June 05)

Strange though, there are people I trust, who have a glimmer of inside knowledge who still reckon it will work out!

[concerned]

I've already been paid.


WOW!!! Is this what you call proof. How does your post in a forum that you have been paid prove that this site works?

[surfer]

I've already been paid.

Im using mostly their money, how can I lose?

El Escocés

"Their money" being that of the victims who join
after you.

You don't lose, just thousands of others after you
when it eventually folds as they all do.

You sound like you're experienced in these ponzis.

Congrats on being a professional criminal.

[ycchen]

IT is working.

Like a previous post said, it was an offline group of companies.

El Escocés

Would you please kindly tell us a name of any companies with real address and contact information (tel, website, owner..etc)? An annual report or financial report of ANY of the companies will make your claim more convincing. :D You can't? Why? :confused:

[Dreamer]

If these companies are so successful why do they align themselves with a scammer and is willing to pay off that scammers previous debt?

Can you provide ANY evidence whatsoever of ANY of their claims to fame? Its usually not that difficult to find out the partnerships of corporations.

Can you provide, after the fact, any trades in which a sale was made and within the days to a testimonal you can tripple the money? Say, December 10-12? Tis is 5 months after the fact so surely it wouldnt be too hard to find a currency that trippled in value over the span of the 1-2 days.

[ycchen]

It seems that I.T. scheme is still moving except for some delay in payment.

Could anyone gives us an update of THE REAL business of I.T. (with some real documents please) or their REAL online/offline partners (with address, website, contacts and name of the owers)?

ADD: with SEC taking the CEC hyip to court in May 4, 2005, people in hyip business should begin to worry :)

http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?p=22551#post22551

[ycchen]

Is I.T. a HYIP?

Nope. Because it is classified as non-HYIP at moneymakergroup.com

Yes, because Nuk said so. (see quote below)

What is SEC stands on I.T.? Well, it probably does matter because I.T. is based in New Zealand. May be we have similar authority in New Zealand that might be interested in doing some investigation on I.T.? :D

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=3201&st=7545&p=245035&#entry245035

I think the intent is to keep things from turning into a mud-pit and having a lot of people who don't forget use your past posts regarding FB and savebym against you in this thread. I think they are trying to keep you from getting lynched by others who don't think much of your opinion and would like to post examples in the IT thread, not put a muzzle on you.

Now to something more relevant: just because IT doesn't have a referral program or pay commissions for recruiting doesn't mean that some pro-IT opinions may not be *biased* Most members believe that negativity kills a prog, bad ju-ju, karma, or whatever affects their investment and whether they get paid by IT or not.

As far as hyips and doublers go, no one besides Mac and his family know whether IT trades anything or not. They haven't even attempted to prove that they do. If they do indeed do some trading and return profits like 250% a month to members, IT would in fact be a HYIP.

Look out, here it comes!
:soapbox:
Not all HYIPs are scams or ponzis, though a good 98% of them online fall into one or the other categories. The reason IT isn't in the HYIP section here is probably due to when they started they said over and over they weren't a HYIP. HYIPs have a bad rep right now and intgold doesn't technically allow HYIPs to use the intgold system so you'd better call yourself something else. I don't blame Mac for wanting to try and convince people that IT isn't a HYIP, but it sure is by any definition I know of. :soapbox:

NUK

[69mike]

IT, hmmmmm

seems like they are saying they will teach u how to make money....

but meanwhile will invest for u until you learnd how to invest in forex, options, stiocks, etc..,.

Anyone have any positive things to say regarding IT?

I know Ycchen doesn't ...lol

I'm just curious....

69mike.

[lonelms]

WOW!!! Is this what you call proof. How does your post in a forum that you have been paid prove that this site works?

Well, let's see......
Join a site to earn money.
Site pays you money.

And you need proof? :crazy:
mmmmmmmmmmmm..........
I guess it would be too hard to join the site and PROVE IT YOURSELF? :head:

[lonelms]

IT will be updating the membership within a few days
as to which direction IT is moving.

I would also like to point out that niether you, I or anyone else
knows FOR sure if IT is, or is not a scam at this point......... :nono:

We/You should know for certain if IT is a scam, or not within 30 days.

[ycchen]

IT will be updating the membership within a few days
as to which direction IT is moving.

I would also like to point out that niether you, I or anyone else
knows FOR sure if IT is, or is not a scam at this point......... :nono:

We/You should know for certain if IT is a scam or not within 30 days.

You might not know if IT is a scam or not, but I am very certain because:
1) Mac and his gang ran an identitical scam -- CTIS -- not long ago. Exactly the same group of scammers, with almost identical scheme!

2. Until now, Mac and his gang have FAILED to show us ANY solid evidences of the nature of his business. They are all EMPTY claims. Any legitimate business will LOVE to tell you who their partners are.

3. The only known source of income to I.T. is from members. What do you call a get-rich-scheme that relies solely on members? -- ponzi/pyramid = going to fail as this debt-driven scheme keep expand pyramidically.

Fine, I am not going to convince or even argue with diehard members of I.T., you can keep believing in Mac and his gang. I just like to remind you to make sure you know where to find Mac and his gang when I.T. dissappear sometime this year, just like CTIS did.

[ycchen]

Want to know more GARBAGE update on the withdraw problem of I.T.? Here you go again with more GARBAGE from the scammer!

Compare to all the ponzi/pyramid sites we are tacking (PIPS, YMMSS, Empowerism ... etc), I.T. is by far the WORST kind!! It shows absolutely NOTHING to its customer except -- ponzi, ponzi and ponzi!

Wake up people, it is time to protect yourselves by, at least, try to locate the true identity (address, contact, real name, assets ...etc) of MAC and his gang, and find a way to make them accountable in case they fleet the scene again, like what they have done in the past with CTIS.

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=3201&st=7875

Quillspirit - Reposting for Storm
Posted by Quillspirit/Storm on 05/20/05 at 07:51 GMT


HEY GANG *S*
Posted by STORM on 05/20/05 at 07:19 GMT
Hey Everyone,

All of this caught mje in transit :P
So just popping in to CONFIRM that there is nothing to be concerned about. Mark, Shawn, Jodi and few others are all either in transit or at remote locations also, so they are doing best to contact their "People" and get things resolved.

What the "Situation" is at this time, is that we were in process of switching servers, and also -- as mentioned -- encountered a DDOS attack. Nothing to worry about, just little bump in the road. Soon as that bump has been sorted out, then we will be Sharing some FANTASTIC News and New changes.

Have some really exciting changes in store for everyone. Soon as we can get all of these changes emplimented, all of our current "Issues'" will then be Completely resolved, and then we can ALL get backing to "Working" and Most Importantly ENJOYING our Business, as apposed to just talking about IT.

We know there is an aweful lot of concern out there at the moment, and certainly enough of the Rumours and all the other "Garbage" floating around that certainly does not help at all. But from where we are sitting things are looking Absolutely Fantastic :D -- Very Soon you will be able to SEE -- and even more importantly -- be able to EXEPRIENCE what we are working on at present.

Once all of these things/ changes start becoming Obvious to you, and as you are learning the "Course" of things, we will be working to eliminate all previous backlog, and then ALL of us can get on with the Really Exciting Stuff :D.

Okay, losing my connection here gang so will close. Next few days are going to be filled with getting our people back to their Home countries and sitting down to get all of these things underway. Paul (T.I.M) will be sending out a MAJOR Announcement and Update just as soon as he can sit down somewhere and bust IT all out to you :)

In the mean time we will do our best to share as much Accurate information as possible. We also have some audio recordings we will be working on uploading for all of you.
Okay must go before getting cut off.
Take Care All

Mac

[l'kn4justice]

You might not know if IT is a scam or not, but I am very certain because:
1) Mac and his gang ran an identitical scam -- CTIS -- not long ago. Exactly the same group of scammers, with almost identical scheme!

2. Until now, Mac and his gang have FAILED to show us ANY solid evidences of the nature of his business. They are all EMPTY claims. Any legitimate business will LOVE to tell you who their partners are.

3. The only known source of income to I.T. is from members. What do you call a get-rich-scheme that relies solely on members? -- ponzi/pyramid = going to fail as this debt-driven scheme keep expand pyramidically.

Fine, I am not going to convince or even argue with diehard members of I.T., you can keep believing in Mac and his gang. I just like to remind you to make sure you know where to find Mac and his gang when I.T. dissappear sometime this year, just like CTIS did.

YCCHEN,

I AGREE WITH YOU ON YOUR TAKE OF IT. I AND MY GIRLFRIEND HAVE GOTTEN BURNT WITH IT-IT IS MORE OBVIOUS NOW THAN EVER. I AM ASKING ALL THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE GOTTEN BURNT BY IT TO SUBMIT THEIR EMAIL ADDRESS TO ME SO THAT I MAY ORGANIZE THIS HUGE GROUP TOGETHER SO THAT WE MAY PUT PRESSURE ON INTERPOL AND OTHER VARIOUS FRAUD SQUADS IN ANY AND EVERY MEANS POSSIBLE TO PROSECUTE THE CREATORS OF IT AND SOME OF THE VOLUNTEERS THAT WERE IN ON THE SCAM
YCCHEN, ANY HELP IN TERMS OF INFORMATION AND METHOD ON THE BEST AND QUICKEST WAY TO TRY TO GET THESE INHUMAN SCAM ARTISTS WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED :mad: :mad: :mad:
IF YOU HAVE GOTTEN SCAMED BY IT PLEASE EMAIL ME AT jmm238@hotmail.com AND TO MAC AND THE GANG, KNOW THAT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF-WE HAVE ALREADY PREPARED FOR A SITUATION SUCH AS THIS-WE ARE COMING AFTER YOU-YOU DID NOT COVER YOUR TRACKS AS WELL AS YOU THINK YOU HAVE :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Sincerely,

l'kn4justice

EDIT by Arzel:

Justice. I removed your email click link, you don't want to get any more spam then you already get. Use may also want to instruct people to use the PM features of this site to pass personal email information. Good luck.

[STRIKE-FORCE]

Justice,

We already 'had' in the past, and also 'have' contacted a group of 'internet hardware specialists (trackers)', the same ones used by the police to find criminals such as online child pornographers etc. We knew that IT was most probably a scam to begin with, yet we wanted to 'ride it' for a couple of months. But do not worry, we took precautions a few months ago, as mentioned above. I will contact you at your e-mail address with some details.

S.F.

[ycchen]

l'kn4justice and STRIKE-FORCE, welcome to matrixwatch!! I am glad to learn that somebody is going after these scammers.

If anyone has any information about I.T. and those behind it, please share with us. We need to put them behind bars, in New Zealand, or any place on this planet.

[FRAUD SCEARCH]

HI YECCHEN,

I KNOW OF SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN SCAMMED BY I.T. UNFORTUNATELY, ONE SINGLE MOTHER-OF 3 LITTLE CHILDREN PUT HER ENTIRE SAVINGS INTO THIS SCAM-THEY PREYED ON THE DESPIRATENESS OF HER SITUATION, ON HER HOPES AND DREAMS. NOW SHE IS WAILTING TO PAY THE RENT, BUT SHE IS 2 MONTHS BEHIND. I TOLD HER THAT THESE TACTICTS ARE TYPICAL OF THESE PONZI SCHEMES-TO GIVE FALSE AND FRAUDULENT HOPE TO THE MOST NEEDY AND FINANCIALLY NIAEVE AND DESPIRATE PEOPLE.

F.S. :head:

[FRAUD SCEARCH]

YOU PEOPLE HAVE A WONDERFUL AND HELPFUL SITE. MY QUESTION IS TO THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THIS SITE: WE-THE MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE PROCESS OF BEING SCAMMED BY I.T.4US.NET WOULD LIKE TO USE THIS MATRIXWATCH SITE TO POST THE EMAIL ADDRESSES OF THE MANY I.T. MEMBERS WHICH HAVE LOST MUCH MONEY THROUGH THE THIEVERY AND DECEPTION OF I.T. CREATORS AND VOLUNTEERS. THIS WAY WE MAY CONTACT EACH OTHER AND ESPECIALLY GROW IN OUR NUMBERS/SIZE, FOR THE PURPOSE TO UNIFY AND PROCEED WITH LEGAL ACTIONS THROUGH AUTHORITIES SUCH AS "INTERPOL AND OTHER INTERNATIONAL GOVERNMENT FRAUD AGENCIES; LEADING TO THE PROSECUTION OF THE CREATORS AND VOLUNTEERS OF I.T. WE AWAIT YOUR REPLY.
MEANWHILE, THOSE THAT HAVE LOST MONEY THROUGH I.T., PLEASE CONTACT US AT: fraudscearch@hotmail.com or scammedbyit@hotmail.com

[FRAUD SCEARCH]

TO THE MANY PEOPLE MEMBERS OF I.T4US.NET THAT HAVE BEEN DELIBERATELY LIED TO AND CHEATED AND ROBBED, THIS DAY MAY 22,2005 HAS MARKED ALMOST 2 MONTHS OF I.T.4US.NET NOT PAYING TO ITS MEMBERS. WE HAVE BEEN DELAYED LONG ENOUGH, THIS IS ALL BEEN DELIBERATE. IF YOU DO NOT GET PAID IMMEDIATELY WE SUGGEST YOU CONTACT INTERNATIONAL POLICE NAMED "INTERPOL" AT THIS WEBSITE ADDRESS: www.interpol.int/Public/FinancialCrime/Default.asp

WE WILL BE POSTING OTHER VITAL EMAIL ADDRESSES TO HELP YOU GET YOUR MONEY BACK-OR AT THE LEAST TO PROSCUTE THOSE CREATORS AND VOLUNTEERS INVOLVED WITH THIS FRAUD.

[MatrixWatch]

WE-THE MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE PROCESS OF BEING SCAMMED BY I.T.4US.NET WOULD LIKE TO USE THIS MATRIXWATCH SITE TO POST THE EMAIL ADDRESSES OF THE MANY I.T. MEMBERS WHICH HAVE LOST MUCH MONEY THROUGH THE THIEVERY AND DECEPTION OF I.T. CREATORS AND VOLUNTEERS. THIS WAY WE MAY CONTACT EACH OTHER AND ESPECIALLY GROW IN OUR NUMBERS/SIZE, FOR THE PURPOSE TO UNIFY AND PROCEED WITH LEGAL ACTIONS THROUGH AUTHORITIES SUCH AS "INTERPOL AND OTHER INTERNATIONAL GOVERNMENT FRAUD AGENCIES; LEADING TO THE PROSECUTION OF THE CREATORS AND VOLUNTEERS OF I.T. WE AWAIT YOUR REPLY.


Thanks for joining MatrixWatch, and it is good to see that you eager to network with other victims.

First, I would recommend not posting in all caps. In the discussion-forum sub-culture, posting in all caps is tantamount to YELLING AT PEOPLE!! :) You might be a better response if you post in normal term-paper format--like I am now.

Second, I really like your idea about networking with other victims and building a list of emails. However, I would not recommend posting their emails on this forum. Not only will the search bots pick up those email addresses and send them all kinds of spam, but it would also leave the door wide open for the IT4US people to know exactly who is getting involved in a campaign against them.

Instead of posting their email addresses, I would recommend using the private messaging system and sharing information through that medium. Also, we can create an IT4US sub-forum in our "other internet 'scams'" folder here so that the past and future discussions can be easily located by new members. We did this for several other specific schemes, and we have found it to be a very effective approach.

Finally, it has often been the case that a scam's owner, or a lawyer advocating on his behalf, has acted like a scammed victim in order to gather information from potential plaintiffs before they take action. These scoundrels will post a message on open discussion forums asking for all of the victims of a site to contact them so that they can work together. Oftentimes, it is a ploy to get everyone to believe that a lawsuit has (or will) be filed, and thus a real one is never brought forward. It is a rather clever way that a scammer can buy themself some time to flee.

I am saying this to you, because it is going to take time to build up trust before people are willing to trust you. How does everyone know that you aren't a loyal supporter of IT4US in disguise? My advice would be to do some research on doing something about this scam, start getting the government involved, and do whatever it takes to add action to your words. After time, people will see that you are for real.

Good luck, and welcome to MatrixWatch! :)

[vagabond]

I don't know where Fraudsearch is getting their information but someone is lying to them. I am a member of I.T. I and a lot of other members were paid the week ending May 20,both old and new members were paid. If you are determined to ruin I.T. please check your info and use the truth. There were a few malcontents that could'nt get along with anyone and were asked to change their attitude or leave,and they left,now they are getting revenge,it is that simple.

[MatrixWatch]

I don't know where Fraudsearch is getting their information but someone is lying to them. I am a member of I.T. I and a lot of other members were paid the week ending May 20,both old and new members were paid. If you are determined to ruin I.T. please check your info and use the truth. There were a few malcontents that could'nt get along with anyone and were asked to change their attitude or leave,and they left,now they are getting revenge,it is that simple.

Actually, when someone refers to IT4US, or any other scam, as a "scam", or "fraudulent", they aren't necessarily talking about whether or not anyone is getting paid.

In fact, the most notorious frauds actually pay their early investors extreemely well. It is essentially a way to start a viral-marketing blitz and get the people excited about bringing their friends on board.

What really is in question is IT4US's framework and organization, and whether or not it falls in the category of 'illegal' or not. That really needs to be the subject of discussion, because whether they are currently paying out or not is moot as far as the courts are concerned.

[FRAUD SCEARCH]

WATCHDOG,

YOU HAVE GIVEN US MUCH VALUABLE INFORMATION THAT WE FIND VERY HELPFUL. YOUR POINTS ABOUT LAWYERS OF THE SCAM-ARTISTS TRYING TO TRICK THE VICTEMS INTO GIVING PERSONAL INFORMATION, ESPECIALLY MAKES SENSE. INVOLVING THE GOVERNMENT IS IN EXCELLENT IDEA, AND WE ARE CURRENTLY INVOLVED INTO DOING THIS.

IN REGARDS TO OUR LEGITIMACY, WE CAN SUGGEST TO PEOPLE TO USE THEIR OWN LOGIC AND REALISE THAT WE ARE POSTING THE ACTUAL EMAIL ADDRESS OF THE INTERPOL FINANCIAL CRIME DIVISION. ADDRESS: www.interpol.int/Public/FinancialCrime/Default.asp

SINCERELY FOR THE VICTEMS,

FRAUD SCEARCH

[FRAUD SCEARCH]

WE FRAUD SCEARCH AND PEOPLE IN OUR GROUP ARE ALSO MEMBERS OF I.T. WE CAN TESTIFY THAT WE HAVE NOT BEEN PAID FOR APPROXIMATELY 75 DAYS. SO DON'T DECIEVE THE PUBLIC ABOUT GETTING PAID ON THE 2OTH, BECAUSE SUZANNA CLEARLY SAID ON THE TEMPORARY FORUM- WHICH BY THE WAY WAS KEPT A SECRET FROM THE VAST MAJORITY OF I.T. MEMBERS, THAT NOBODY 'GOT' PAID AND NOBODY 'WILL' GET PAID........ JUST MORE EXCUSES, STRINGING US ALONG, EXPLOITING OUR "HOPES" AND "DREAMS OF A BETTER FINANCIAL FUTURE".
FURTHERMORE, AT A TIME OF CRISIS SUCH AS THIS THE SO CALLED "EXECUTIVE" HAS DISSAPPEARED-VANISHED; AND NOW WE ARE TOLD TO WAIT EVEN LONGER, JUST EXCUSES AFTER EXCUSES. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THIS IS THE END. SO MY FRIEND YOU SHOULD HARASS THEM FOR YOUR MONEY IMMEDIATELY. WHEN THEY ABANDON YOU, JUST COME TO THIS SITE AND WE WILL HELP YOU.

SINCERELY FOR THE PEOPLE,

FRAUD SCEARCH

[FRAUD SCEARCH]

Watchdog, We appologise for forgetting to use lower case, it will not happen againSincerely,

F.S.

[ycchen]

I don't know where Fraudsearch is getting their information but someone is lying to them. I am a member of I.T. I and a lot of other members were paid the week ending May 20,both old and new members were paid. If you are determined to ruin I.T. please check your info and use the truth. There were a few malcontents that could'nt get along with anyone and were asked to change their attitude or leave,and they left,now they are getting revenge,it is that simple.

May I know when did you join I.T.?

ADD: Click below to see some latecomers who haven't made any profit. For any ponzi, the latecomers who are designated donors are ALWAYS at least 50% larger than those who make profit. That's the RULE of ponzi, and I am sure you know this rule very well, otherwise, you won't be the one who is making a good profit .:)

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=3201&st=8070


Do you think everyone will get paid? If so, how and where do you think Mac gets the money from to pay such a high "return of investment" -- 250% in few weeks?

We are not concern about early members getting paid because that is the beauty of any ponzi as a way to gain the initual trust of its early customers. We are more concerned about the "cash-flow" structure of the scheme.

As far as we know, the only known source of income of IT4US is from its member. Until Mac and his gang dare to disclose more information about the nature of their "business" (which of course he won't because he has NO business partners, NO forex trading, and absolutely zero investment plan that could generate high profit in such a short time), IT4US is nothing but another ponzi.

Mac and his gang has a good record of running a "successful" ponzi (before it crash), so we strongly believe that he is running another ponzi that is PAYING the early investors at the expences of late investors.

Only ponzi will be affected by "rumours" (which is often the hidden truth the owner don't want you to know). A real business can easily defense against any "rumours" with real data and documents to prove to the public and thier investors about the nature of their business.

Since the opening of IT4US, we have been asking Mac and his gang to produce one piece of real document (e.g. a name of his partner that we can contact to verify their partnership) to prove that they are NOT running a ponzi ... ... we are still waiting ...:(

[MatrixWatch]

WATCHDOG,

IN REGARDS TO OUR LEGITIMACY, WE CAN SUGGEST TO PEOPLE TO USE THEIR OWN LOGIC AND REALISE THAT WE ARE POSTING THE ACTUAL EMAIL ADDRESS OF THE INTERPOL FINANCIAL CRIME DIVISION.

SINCERELY FOR THE VICTEMS,

FRAUD SCEARCH

Yes, I am aware of interpol. Wait... Are you part of interpol? If so, then why are you providing an @hotmail.com account above?

Furthermore, why are you investing in this IT scam in the first place? We are against all sorts of endless-chain schemes here, but we certainly don't go around investing in them. Please explain, because I am really curious about your situation.

[Dreamer]

Something doesnt add up for me. If you were a member of the site and have been scammed and want to take action, more power to you. Hotmail accounts are pretty unprofessional. Spelling errors. Capitalizaion. I wouldnt be suprised if its Mac.

I think they should be gone after, but who exactly are you? Remember, WD was just a scammed person before he took action.

[concerned]

Well, let's see......
Join a site to earn money.
Site pays you money.

And you need proof? :crazy:
mmmmmmmmmmmm..........
I guess it would be too hard to join the site and PROVE IT YOURSELF? :head:

I won't join a site because I know I will get scammed. Until someone shows me proof that a site is not a scam, I will never join. I am not that stupid. Now, why do you think my post was crazy? Are you telling me that one person who posts in a forum and states they got paid is good enough for you? I guess I must have been busy the day that the news reported that nobody in the world tells lies anymore.

[FRAUD SCEARCH]

PROFESSIONAL OR NON-PROFESSIONAL, THAT IS NOT THE POINT AT ALL. THE POINT IS TAKING ACTION AND PERSEVERANCE IN PROSCUTION OF THESE PEOPLE, ALL OF WHICH "WE AND OUR EVER GROWING GROUP OF I.T. VICTEMS" WILL PERSUE AND ARE PERUSING WITH A UNFORGIVING VENGENCE-TILL THE END. JUST BETWEEN OUR GROUP, WE HAVE LOST TOO MUCH, TO MUCH MONEY TO JUST SIT BACK AND DO NOTHING.

TO EVERY PRESENT AND FUTURE SCAMMING SITE-ESPECIALLY INCLUDING I.T. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT "WE AND THE GROUP"-THAT OUR INTENTION IS TO SET A PRESCEDENT FOR FUTURE PROSCUTION OF THE INTERNET SCAMMERS/THIEVES, WHO PREY UPON THE HOPES AND DREAMS OF THE POOR.

IN REGARDS TO WHO WE ARE AND WHAT WE DO, AND OUR "SPELLING MISTAKES AND OUR LACK OF PROFESSIONALISM"--- THIS IS NOT THE CONCERN; ANY ONE WOMAN/MAN MAY TAKE ACTION AND CAUSE THE FALL OF AN EMPIRE. FORTUNATELY FOR US, "WE AND THE GROUP" ARE GROWING IN NUMBERS EXTREMELY FAST. I.T. CREATORS AND VOLUNTEERS HAVE YET TO FEEL OUR LEGALLY FOCUSED VENGENCE AND WRATH.

F.S. AND THE GROUP

[MatrixWatch]

Why are you still posting in all caps? The people whom you are trying to help are only going to think that you are yelling at them.

[ycchen]

IT4US had been moved to "site on hold" section at MMG.
http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showforum=32

My question is: guess which category Jason will put it after it disappear? "Scam" or "Site Closed"? I guess it depends on whether Jason likes the program (or has any interest in it or not). If he hates the program, it will be in "scam", otherwise, it will just RIP in "site closed". lol

Other than abetting ponzis, MMG is a great source of information. :)

For those who thinks they are victims of IT4US, or who are furious about being cheated, please come to MatrixWatch to share your insight and thought, and see what we can do as a group.

[swtslasylm]

IT4US had been moved to "site on hold" section at MMG.
http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showforum=32

My question is: guess which category Jason will put it after it disappear? "Scam" or "Site Closed"? I guess it depends on whether Jason likes the program (or has any interest in it or not). If he hates the program, it will be in "scam", otherwise, it will just RIP in "site closed". lol

Other than abetting ponzis, MMG is a great source of information. :)

For those who thinks they are victims of IT4US, or who are furious about being cheated, please come to MatrixWatch to share your insight and thought, and see what we can do as a group.


In order to take action the following must be answered:

Which real tangible proof are available from both paties?

Thanks.

R.

[Dreamer]

You bring up a good point. However, there is one thing that throws away their whole claim of the business model they claim.

I think it was mentioned earlier on this thread, or somewhere else, that only mac and his mommy knows if there is a real business behind IT. They claimed to have a group of people that trade in these obscure money trading systems somewhere else.

If this is true, then they should be able to come up with paper work after the fact to show how their investments were handled in the past. I dont think that would give away any of their super secret system by giving past results.

On December 10, 2004 (I think) there was a testimonal about a person who invested 10 days ago and 2 days ago and both of them matured. So, it should not be difficult to pull up the records from the time the money was invested to the time that it was paid back to show that some currency against another currency trippled in value.

Now, thats the kind of success stories that legimitate, and even non legimitate investment companies would be proud to display, how they were able to tripple their clients monies in 3 days.

What were their arguments?

1. trippling money by investing is simple to do in 15 days. Even the most successful investors in the world do not have this tract record. One of the most successful ones that I know, Jim Kramer (I think thats how you spell his name) admitted he makes about 35% a year. Now, that is killer. If you have invested 10million dollars, 35% a year is to die for. Can anybody site a name, and possibly url of somebody who claims to have more success? http://thestreet.com/

2. Its easy to make alot of money investing everyday. People make and lose millions all the time. That is true, if they have 10s of millions or more. IT claims to be able to tripple all peoples moneys in 15 days, or whatever their gimic was. The only way that is possible is if his 6 made up investors each had a claim of several million dollars constantly invested, and decided to give to charity of this new scam site.

While this isn't necessary proof showing it is a scam, it does suggest that there is no proof to any claims of the business.

[ycchen]

2. Its easy to make alot of money investing everyday. People make and lose millions all the time. That is true, if they have 10s of millions or more. IT claims to be able to tripple all peoples moneys in 15 days, or whatever their gimic was. The only way that is possible is if his 6 made up investors each had a claim of several million dollars constantly invested, and decided to give to charity of this new scam site.

While this isn't necessary proof showing it is a scam, it does suggest that there is no proof to any claims of the business.

Dreamer has said it all. For any investment that claim over 500% profit rate, the risk of failing is tremendous. Hight profit means high risk.Therefore, there is no way that ALL investors can double their investment in 2 weeks! That is not investment, but charity, as Dreamer has just explained.

What make it a ponzi is that the early investor has absolutely NO risk of getting their profit, while the later investors has NO risk of donating their money, i.e. getting nothing.

ADD: the only different is that the size of the ponzi. A successful ponzi runs BIG (such as PIPS and YMMSS), and the last person who will turn into a "donor" is probably at a position of a few thousand. (can any statistics guru calculcate this? probably difficuly huh?). For a medium site ponzi like IT4US, the "donor" might show up much earlier.

However, no economists will call this a risk (only the habitual speculator at MMG will call this situation -- risky investment). There is absolutely NO risk involve (risk in the economic sense) because the STRUCTURE of cashflow is FIX, and the uncertainty is "very certain". IF you step back and look at the cashflow structure, you will find that there is NO risk because there will always be > 50% of the later investment act as donation at ANY GIVEN TIME, from the begining to the end (crashed). That is essense of any ponzi/pyramid cashflow structure.

Therefore, IT4US is defined as ponzi not because it failes to pay the early investors, but because of its ponzi-based cashflow structure that soley rely on member's money as the source of income. In other words, ponzi is not a cash generator, it is a very unjust cash redistributor. :(

[FRAUD SCEARCH]

In regards to the comment "what proof is there" about this FLAGERENT FRAUD commited by IT and its Volunteers:

THERE IS AMPLE PROOF-AN EXCESS OF PROOF, and it is ALL LISTED IN THE E-GOLD data of EVERY account. Go into your e-gold account, and in the History section, you will find a COMPLETE and DETAILED listing of the SERIAL numbers/BATCH numbers of EACH AND EVERY TIME I.T. STOLE our money. E-gold has Detailed information on the specific DATE, TIME, BATCH number, and WHO the payment went to-in this case it went to these EVIL/HEARTLESS CRIMINALS. What more proof do you want than this?????

Anyhow, WE and THE GROUP are doing vigorous rescearch on exactly WHO to contact amongst the VARIOUS INTERNATIONAL FRAUD CRIME divisions listed on the internet. We hope that all of you victems will join us and UNITE into a HUGE FORCE to persist and baddger these law enforcement agencies to try to get our money back, or for the least to PROSCUTE to the MAXIMUM SENTENCE.

Also, to Watchdog, you had asked who we are, well we are investors in i.t. that DID NOT KNOW OR SUSPECT any fraud by it when we invested. But it is now clear, and we want to do something rather than just post on forums. :mad: :mad:

Sincerely,

FRAUD SCEARCH and the GROUP

[Rhys]

Please can you rein in/ban/restrain/delete this person FRAUD SCEARCH
They have been yelling on every thread I read on ITUS.
They are neither credible nor reasonably polite.......

[MatrixWatch]

Please can you rein in/ban/restrain/delete this person FRAUD SCEARCH
They have been yelling on every thread I read on ITUS.
They are neither credible nor reasonably polite.......

I've noticed that he is doing the same thing here, and I spoke quite frankly about it on the fifth post of this thread (http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?p=22874#post22874). His post above was uploaded before he could have read my suggestion in this other thread, and so I won't be issuing any warnings.

Fraud Search, please read my post on the other thread about your use of CAPS LOCK and bold-faced type. It is quite a big deal in the discussion-forum sub-cultures, and I'd appreciate it if you adhered to common courtesy.

I respect your opinions and your hard work, and please understand that my suggestion is intended to help your cause. "Yelling" your ideas will only push others away, as you can see with Rhys' post.

[MatrixWatch]

I was just checking the stats on this thread and they are among the sites highest!

22 pages, 212 replies, and 16,066 views!! :rolleyes:

[BTCohen]

I was just checking the stats on this thread and they are among the sites highest!

22 pages, 212 replies, and 16,066 views!! :rolleyes:

That tells a story doesn't it?

[MatrixWatch]

Well, speaking of stories...

I found this post (http://www.talkgold.com/forum/r31655-.html) quite interesting:


Just had this posted on on IT4US-Scam.com..

Need Information-
My name is Lucy Craymer and I am a journalist for Hawke's Bay Today - the newspaper in Hastings where Ray Toler is based. I am looking for some personal stories of what Ray's scams have meant to you.
I would appreciate it if anyone prepared to help me with this story would get in touch with me at lucy.craymer@hbtoday.co.nz.

Thank you, Lucy

Looks like the media is getting involved on this one.

[BTCohen]

Well, speaking of stories...

I found this post (http://www.talkgold.com/forum/r31655-.html) quite interesting:



Looks like the media is getting involved on this one.

Do you know what hasn't made sense to me all the way along with this IT4US?

If this guy Mac, or Ray or whatever he calls himself, has such a checkered history, why does he even make it known that it is HE who is running things? Openly we knew his mother was a forum administrator and his step dad was one of the directors, so he hasn't concealed himself too well.

It just doesn't make sense.

If I was running a scam and had a history of it, I would keep well out of the light.

Maybe his vanity causes him to show himself.

Oh well, on goes the saga.