Vegas matrix [Archive]

hurley9192

July 7th, 2003, 09:17 PM

Why don't the matrix owners just incorporate in Vegas?

They could just run their stuff through MGM or something like that. Would that be illegal?

Watchdog...how do you get around the argument that people can do online gambling in CA and the website doesn't get shut down??

That's where I imagine the matrix site owners will go on you illegal lottery in CA thing...

Arzel

July 7th, 2003, 09:27 PM

I made a post to this some time ago.

Online gambling is not legal in the US, at least as far as where the company is located. Several of the large casinos in NV had been toying with setting up online gambling sites, but recent discussions in congress show that the end result will be specific laws against online gambling. What implications this will have on offshore gambling sites is unclear, and still being debated.

So, it would not matter if the matrix site was located in NV or NJ. Also, matrix sites are not considered gambling, so would not be legal in as such anyway. matrix sites are much closer to games of chance, hence the illegal lottery aspect of the suit.

tcb1969a

July 8th, 2003, 03:06 AM

Matrix sites are no way even close to being an illegal lottery.

Please read what a lottery is and you will see that a Matrix site is not one. So therefore it can not be an illegal lottery.....

Further it is not a system based on chance either. This system is a reward type system for the Matrix sites customers. How many times can I beat this into your minds......?

tcb1969a

July 8th, 2003, 03:08 AM

Oh yea, I voted above, which we all know what I voted for.

I will have to admit though I did have a dilema. I couldn't decide whether or not to pick for a matrix site or believe I can make a pizza for .25

It was a hard choice but I think I picked the right one.....lol

MatrixWatch

July 8th, 2003, 03:25 AM

You cannot offer a matrix list to a customer and require the customer to buy something in order to enter the matrix. This is what I am addressing to the matrix sites and they cannot change it, because if they did, the only legal way they could do business would be to offer the spot in the matrix for free. If they did this, the matrix sites would not make money. This matrix sites are the scam of the new millenium and I would appreciate it if the site owners read through the lawsuit, consulted with an attorney, and considered shutting down and refunding their customer's money. If these big pay companies that are named in the lawsuits end up losing this case, who do you think they will go after to get the money for the customer's restitution? Trust me, it would be much easier for all of you if you spoke with an attorney and began to "land this nose-diving plane softly".

tcb1969a

July 8th, 2003, 03:38 AM

And who says, Watch Dog, we haven't........

Also let me clarify something for you. A lottery has nothing to do with giving a free spot in a matrix. And seeing how a matrix site is not a lottery, why would we be required to give a free spot in a matrix, which by the way would make us more like a sweepstakes if we gave a free spot in a matrix list.....

MatrixWatch

July 8th, 2003, 03:43 AM

Actually, you answer your own question. If you gave the spot away for free, and you made money of selling product to people who were genuinely interested, then you would be a sweepstakes. Instead, however, the matrix sites offer the prize matrix opportunity AFTER a customer buys the product. The sites cannot do this.

We have argued about this for a while now. You need to read the lawsuit and respond to the issues set forth there. When you make these statements like "matrix sites are NOT a lottery" you need to back it up with evidence to counter-claim to the evidence already set forth in the lawsuit.

tcb1969a

July 8th, 2003, 03:54 AM

Ok....very well then....I just thought it was evident what a lottery is....

A lottery is where someone purchase a ticket for say $1 and they pick the numbers they want to play, or it could be scratch offs too.

Then once or twice a week the numbers are picked randomly and one person out of all of those that bought tickets might win the prize. And I say might win, because in most cases there is no winner. So therefore Matrix sites are in no way like a lottery, and you can't say that's what makes it illegal lottery cause we are not trying to be a lottery. We are a Matrix site(s)......

MatrixWatch

July 8th, 2003, 04:12 AM

I think that this is what many people think of when they hear the word "lottery". However, this is only one form of a lottery. There are several, and only a few are allowed. Even those few are allowed in certain states. The matrix concept was not born out of sound counsel from attorneys, historical perspective, or wise advisement from counselors. The idea of the matrix was designed to make money for the site owners, and those who joined the lists early. Unfortunately for the matrix sites, their structure broke down after the lists became long enough, their reputation was exposed by MSNBC in January, and their reputation was further demoted when over-greedy site owners began starting multiple sites and then shutting them down, taking off with the customers' money. Furthermore, the "risks" that customers thought they were taking were really much more than they bargained for in light of the pay-processor freezes, and matrix owners tampering with the lists to their own benefit. I feel incredibly bad for those who have been left in the wake of this sinking ship, fpr many customers have given thousands of dollars to these sites, not knowing that these factors would arise. The discussion boards are flooded with drowning victims with no life rafts. Fortunately, California has a law that requires some pay companies to make nationwide restitution in the event that it is proven that they support an illegal lottery. I filed the lawsuit against EzExpo, and there are other lawsuits filed by other matrix customers in other states with similar laws. Most internet scams take off with the money and the people learn a lesson the hard way. In our case, the customers of the matrix sites have a possibility of getting their money back. This is great news, and I just could not pass up the opportunity to help these people out.

tcb1969a

July 8th, 2003, 04:18 AM

Ok....Watch Dog, again I will beat this into your head.

Matrix Owners do not make as much as you think we do. Further it is more profitable being a Matrix Customer than a owner. I have made more money being a customer than I have at being an owner. Their are over 150 sites out there, so trying to make money by being a Matrix Owner is not very easy.

But anyways why do I keep trying to get this point accross to you, your whole logic is based on assumption, and no one can change someones mind who lives by assumption alone......

Arzel

July 8th, 2003, 11:05 AM

A sweepstakes is a lottery.

Deffinition 2. any of various lotteries.

Just because YOU don't happen to be making any money in your matrix site does not mean anything. I find it extremely difficult to believe that hundreds of matrix sites were started just "Help other people out". What a load of crap. No one believes that, a judge certainly would not. The whole point of starting a business is to make money. If you were interested in helping people you would be a philanthropist, and not ask for money from anyone. You would simply just help them.

If all of you were looking just to help people, then you would need only one site to help everyone, having multiple sites does not help any additional people, if anything it helps a few more people more often because they understand the game and only get in on the ground level of every site leaving thousands of people out of luck.

If you want a true view of helping people, the people here fall into that category. People like Peterdragin and others. My investment in the matrix world has been my own time and money to help other people get out of the matrix or shut down the matrices before more people get sucked in by the empty promises made by the site owners.

tcb1969a

July 8th, 2003, 11:29 AM

Interesting....though a sweepstakes is still not a lottery.....but thanks I had a good laugh on that one.

Yes I did get into the Matrix business to help people out. Quite frankly I don't care if you believe that or not. Sure I also want to make money, hence the name Business, but I also wanted to help people out as well.

As far as you all helping people out, you are not. You are hurting more people by causing sites to close down, and those customers loosing their money. Also some of those customers will not get a refund, just depends on what payment processor they used.

But go ahead and keep believing that you are helping people, because that is just plain dillusional.

Also most sites have not made empty promises either. Though some have, it is not fair to say all Matrix sites are that way. Most are up front with their customers and potential customers.

Arzel

July 8th, 2003, 11:54 AM

So you are calling Webster's a liar?......And we are the ones that are delusional....um yeah..

sweep-stakes n pl but sing or pl in contstr, also sweep-stake ME swepestake one who wins all the stakes in a game, fr. swepen to sweep + stake (1785). 1 a: a race or contest in which the entire prize may be awarded to the winner; specif: STAKE RACE b: CONTEST, COMPETITION 2: any of various lotteries

seems pretty clear.

tcb1969a

July 8th, 2003, 11:59 AM

Yes I am quite aware of what the dictionary says, but regardless of that, they are not the same. Sweepstakes are a dirivitive of a lottery, not like one.

Lottery = Random chance with no free entry

Sweepstakes = Random chance with a choice to enter free.

They are different period......

Arzel

July 8th, 2003, 12:18 PM

Now you are just making stuff up to fit your own purpose. If you cannot accept the definition that a Sweepstake is any of various lotteries than I can no longer debate with you on any subject. I can no longer believe anything you say.

Just because you do not accept the definition does not mean it is not true.

tcb1969a

July 8th, 2003, 12:28 PM

Ok, let me reiterate. It is by definition a variation of a lottery. But by no means is it a lottery. That is what I am saying. If it was a lottery, then there would be no such word as sweepstakes. And no I am not making things up. Just showing you why a sweepstakes is not a lottery. The only thing they have in common is random chance.

But that is how the meaning is to me. If you take it as different then so be it. I will accept that. To some extent...

Arzel

July 8th, 2003, 01:23 PM

There are many words in our language that can be interchanged, that is what a thesarus is for.

But if you want to get into semantics a Sweepstakes is a form of lottery. There is nothing that states that a lottery is required to have a fee to entry.

One more way to look at is as such. All sweepstakes are lotteries, but not all lotteries are sweepstakes.

By your own admission, and that of the definition I provided earlier, a sweepstake is a derivitive of a lottery. It is not a variation of a lottery, it is a type of lottery.

I am not sure why you wish to even debate this issue, it is really quite a simple process.

tcb1969a

July 8th, 2003, 01:30 PM

Very well Arzel, you win, on that issue. It was probably a poor choice to debate with you. I will admit defeat in this case. Probably due to lack of sleep, who knows. I still do not consider a sweepstakes to be a lottery simply because numbers are picked and in a sweepstakes a random name is picked. But that is apples and oranges, so you win.....

Arzel

July 8th, 2003, 02:47 PM

You really don't have a clue, or else you only wish to labor the point.

It does not matter if you pick names, numbers, colored sticks, purple eggs, dead fish, rotten apples, orange peels, anything.

Let me ask you this question. What do they pick in the Powerball Lottery?

You might say numbers, but in reality they randomly pick 5 white balls with numbers on them. The symbol on the balls does not make any difference, they could just as well have 49 different colored balls, and then the lottery player would choose which colors they thought would be selected, instead of numbers.

Also, in the Publishers Clearing House Sweepstakes, a number is selected, and each name is then randomly given names. Names/Numbers, Numbers/Names, it simply does not matter.

You can not say that I won, and then say you still think I am wrong in the same paragraph.

tcb1969a

July 8th, 2003, 02:55 PM

Ok....very well then you won....

See nothing in there saying I am still right....oops...

Just kidding....

Lets, get back to the real debate about whether a matrix site is a lottery. How is that so, seeing how there is no picking of anything, numbers, balls, paper. Whoever is at the top of the list gets cycled whenever the site makes enough money.....

MatrixWatch

July 8th, 2003, 03:01 PM

Go back to the beginning of this thread and the "illegal lottery" thread to find this answer. It has alread been answered.

tcb1969a

July 8th, 2003, 03:07 PM

Um....no I believe I have also mentioned that the explanation does not explain anything.......

mikv

July 8th, 2003, 04:41 PM

I have nothing to add other than "LOSING"....Since when did the word LOOSE become the description for something lost?? You all have used this word in the wrong form again and again and yet you all try to talk like you are so educated. If something is LOOSE it is NOT TIGHT....If you are "LOSING" the battle like you are, it IS NOT SPELLED LOOSE!! Get your grammar and pronunciations right BEFORE you post. You are making yourselves sound foolish!
Customers do not "LOOSE" money in matrix sites, they "LOSE IT"...There is a GLOBAL misconception of the word "Loose" and it doesn't seem like anybody knows, so now you do! This of course is only for those that are trying to sound like rocket scientists with their posts, but have typos and misspelled words within the text. Stop trying to act educated! If you can't spell it , you can't use it! Someone has a slogan at the bottom saying something about not trying to act like you know what you're doing unless you're trying to prove you're an idiot or something to that effect...TAKE HEED and wise up! Also SLOW DOWN when you are typing, why are you trying to type so fast that you misspell words?? It's NOT like this site is going anywhere, unless of course watchdog "LOSES" and has to pay for everybody's court fees....Then he'll probably have to close this site down to save money. So until then, take it easy and stop rushing your posts, there will still be room and time for you to get your nonsense across. I don't mean to offend anybody but this is getting on my nerves that there are so many supposed scholars in this forum, that CAN'T SPELL CORRECLTY!

uwantme

July 9th, 2003, 01:10 PM

Do you feel you cant find anything else to attack anyone on so you must make yourself feel better by belittling our wrinting? LOL...
Personally I dont care how my wrinting looks to you on this board. Im not trying to impress anyone here thats for sure.. So i mispelled a few words or had bad grammer OH NO, what a tragidy.

hurley9192

July 9th, 2003, 03:05 PM

uwantme...is that your standard response to someone that criticizes your bad grammer?

Sometimes, using the wrong words gives away the wrong impression.

MAYBE I WILL JUST TYPE IN ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME

THAT'S JUST AS ANNOYING AS MISUSING WORDS...

hurley9192

July 9th, 2003, 03:06 PM

BY THE WAY, YOU MISSPELLED "TRAGEDY"...

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 03:16 PM

And gee, I thought this was a site about Matrix sites, and not about Grammer......

uwantme

July 9th, 2003, 04:15 PM

gee.. my piont exactly. I dont care how you type- I am smart enough to read a post despite a few spelling mistakes or so called bad grammer. You should be able to too. As far as its annoying to read I find just about this whole board annoying to read so maybe Im glad that something as small as my typing can annoy you. Its actually kind of funny that any of you let something as small as a few typing erors bother you that much. Also all caps doesnt annoy me and i dont really see why it would annoy anyone. And yes that is going to be my response. How I type doesnt affect my pionts or what I have to say. You still get the same message even if it has a few errors in it.

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 04:26 PM

Very well said....uwantme......

mikv

July 9th, 2003, 06:06 PM

I just wanted to start this "sewing circle" bickering about something they might know a little something about for a change. I take it at least ONE of you is a matrix site owner from what I read and you are the LAST person needed to make a case for your industry if you can't spell correctly. A point is not a point unless it's SHARP. Which you are NOT since you don't proof read your own post. Sounding intellectual and being intellectual are two totally different things. I just find it funny how you can smack back at watchdog for what he's doing, but your point is never understood because you can't spell and you use your words in the wrong "tense". That's all I meant, but if you'd like to prove my points even further continue with those types of replies. I don't mind you looking like an idiot if you don't.

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 06:11 PM

Well, mikv, woke up on the wrong side of the bed today?

Matters not about grammer, which some people have a problem with, but does not mean that they are not intelligent. And I will prove my point dramatically that even you won't be able to rebut.

Albert Einstein one of the greatest minds of the 20th century, failed in grammer class/english....

Also I do proof read what I write, though I am human and do occasionally make mistakes....

uwantme

July 9th, 2003, 06:12 PM

Actually how I spell here and on my future site are two different things. I dont worry about by spelling here because I dont respect this site or its members enough too. You arent no help to me your in it to hurt my business. Why should I make anything easier, or show respect to you. LOL.... My site I will take the time on it because its important and so are my cusomters. But a bunch of whiney dogs arent going to make me waste my time proof reading everything I write especially if they are to ignorant to understand what I wrote or my piont with even with a few spelling errors.

mikv

July 9th, 2003, 06:21 PM

Yes, Albert Einstein did fail those subjects and he is known for being one of the "smartest" people of our time. BUT if you look into HOW he got that recognition, you will see that he STOLE someone else's theories and made them his own. Just like MOST MATRIX SITE OWNERS DO. Coincidence? Yea I may have woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Although that is irrelevant being you just proved again you must NOT proof read your posts or double check your logic before you post. You do make for an interesting conversation though, I can't deny that. Keep it up!

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 06:25 PM

Albert stole someone elses Idea....and you say I need to double check my logic. I would bet there are many in this world who would disagree with you concerning Albert Einstein...

MysticX23

July 9th, 2003, 06:34 PM

lol, u guys are hilarious...does it matter THAT much that grammar is correct? not everyone has a degree in english u kno....as long as the point can be understood, its all good...can u understand that all my "u" means "you and "r" means "are".....i mean, not everyone is from the united states and has lived here for 30 years or something...

...just CHILL...its not that big a deal

mikv

July 9th, 2003, 06:38 PM

Yeah and most of those people still think ELVIS is alive and well. Read the history books NOT given to you by the caucasions. Einstein got his theory off of an African American's equation although I can't recall his name at the moment. You are too quick to try to respond with wit, when intellect is the catalyst for wit.
Start reading and stop guessing.

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 06:40 PM

Oh....no....not a race thing in this forum....aagghh...

Surfice it to say, Albert was smarter than you and I put together.....just leave it at that, mikv

Oh and by the way, Elvis is alive.......lol

mikv

July 9th, 2003, 06:41 PM

Not to mention the fact that Einstein was a GERMAN. English was Not his native toungue so of course he would have failed. On top of that he was Jewish as well. You need to stop posting for a while and gather your facts.

MysticX23

July 9th, 2003, 06:41 PM

sorry guys, but mikev is correct. i have just recently finished a class about physics and theory or relativity and speical theory of relativity...and einstein did "borrow" ideas from this other guy and made it his own, with additional modifications. it might not say in many textbooks, but go ask a few physics professors dealing with einstien's theory and they'll tell you......

....but what has this got to do with the matrix sites?

MysticX23

July 9th, 2003, 06:42 PM

damn
we should all go to chat rooms and talk instead of posting messages ever other minute to respond..anyone up for that?

MysticX23

July 9th, 2003, 06:44 PM

yea,..einstein is prolly smarter than just about all of us and he'd prolly think of a solution to the matrix dilemma we have here.

he's prolly think of some equation for the matrix "scheme" that would benefit everyone..too bad he's gone.

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by mikv
Not to mention the fact that Einstein was a GERMAN. English was Not his native toungue so of course he would have failed. On top of that he was Jewish as well. You need to stop posting for a while and gather your facts.

That is neither here or there, I know about Einstein more than you know.

Further his brain was smaller than the average man, yet he was smarter than all of us put together....

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 06:48 PM

The other guy you all are talking about, his theory did not work, further Einstein did not take it, he solved the problem of why it did not work. Plus lets not forget, he just didn't have one idea either....

hurley9192

July 9th, 2003, 07:21 PM

was it true that his theory was called a matrix website??

Just like Al Gore is the founder of the Internet...

All I ask is that your point come across...some people it's just hard to read because they try and shorten everything...it ends up sounding like a bad B film with some little Asian guy trying to run a Chinese restaurant...

U no want chpstiks?? and I'm not ripping on Asian people there either...

hurley9192

July 9th, 2003, 07:23 PM

although according to Reggie White, Asians can make a microwave out of a watch...

I bet they can make a pizza for $0.25 as well...LOL

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 07:23 PM

I can read and understand everyones post on here.........

mikv

July 9th, 2003, 07:25 PM

You can't make your point by reiterating mine...so back to the Matrix discussion. It seems that is the only forum where most are on the same page. Sorry for interrupting the flow of this ebonics class. I won't knit-pick anymore. Although I like the term "borrowed" when talking about how Einstein aquired his theories.

So anyway, it does seem like Vegas would be the proper place for a matrix site being they rip people off on a daily basis. Actually that raises a good question...Is a matrix site illegal if run in Las Vegas? The system's in vegas favor the house just like a matrix site does. Any comments?