Vegas matrix gamble [Archive]

concerned

July 9th, 2003, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by MysticX23
sorry, didn't read ur "offshore" idea...then i guess it could work, and the odds would be better than the superlotto...however, cuz i'm not guaranteed a spot in line like the matrix, personally i would not join.

What you are saying is that you would rather be guaranteed a spot rather than having your name thrown in a hat. You are essentially saying that you would be perfectly happy with spot number 1000, knowing that 20,000 people will have to buy something before you get your item. And if that's the case, you would also be perfectly happy being number 20.000, needing 400,000 people to buy because you are "GUARANTEED THAT SPOT."

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by concerned
What you are saying is that you would rather be guaranteed a spot rather than having your name thrown in a hat. You are essentially saying that you would be perfectly happy with spot number 1000, knowing that 20,000 people will have to buy something before you get your item. And if that's the case, you would also be perfectly happy being number 20.000, needing 400,000 people to buy because you are "GUARANTEED THAT SPOT."

The odds of your name being picked out of a hat of 400,000 is pretty great as well.......

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 08:05 PM

By the way, do you realize I have made more money out of Being a Matrix customer than I have at winning on any lottery.

Why is that I wonder? Hmm......

MysticX23

July 9th, 2003, 08:06 PM

u got a point there...didn't take that into account...i'm not sure what to answer, if i wwere the first couple of people to enter, i'd rather like the straight line matrix, but if i was number 20000 or something, i'd like my odds...

...but then again, i wouldn't join cuz the odds increases as time increases.

not to mention, for both cases, if the number of people gets too large, i doubt many other people would want to join..and then no one wins again

hurley9192

July 9th, 2003, 08:06 PM

it seems like your best bet would be to find items that are something that a person would go buy in real life and that you can get at a 20% or less cost of retail price and sell the item, run a 2 person matrix list and use some of the profit for autocycling. Also, if you get a good enough site, you could sell some advertising on the site and make some profit there as well.

But then, you are essentially just selling 2 things for the price of one of them retail. i.e. a dvd player and cd player for the price of one of them.

I.e. you buy into the matrix by purchasing a dvd player for $100, then every 2 people that sign up, the first on the list gets a cd player as well. And then when you auto cycle with some of the profit and ad revenue, you would be able to cycle everyone.

However, that would be very charitable because you would essentially be giving away the cd player for free and surviving on just selling the dvd players at a huge profit.

MysticX23

July 9th, 2003, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by tcb1969a
By the way, do you realize I have made more money out of Being a Matrix customer than I have at winning on any lottery.

Why is that I wonder? Hmm......

haha, same here

concerned

July 9th, 2003, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by MysticX23
u got a point there...didn't take that into account...i'm not sure what to answer, if i wwere the first couple of people to enter, i'd rather like the straight line matrix, but if i was number 20000 or something, i'd like my odds...

...but then again, i wouldn't join cuz the odds increases as time increases.

not to mention, for both cases, if the number of people gets too large, i doubt many other people would want to join..and then no one wins again

This is exactly why these are considered schemes. Obviously, you don't want to be number 20,000, as most people don't. That is why the matrix collapses and 19,000 people get screwed.

In response to you making more money on the matrix, my reply is one of 2 scenarios.

You were lucky to get in at the very begining, or you were an insider that only got in at the begining because you knew that you were screwing someone else out of their money.

poorme

July 9th, 2003, 08:12 PM

For TB :
I suggest you write a book, "How to success in the matrix business" and have it sold in your site in addition to ebooks that you are selling.

QSA world is the site where the casting odds is also added.

concerned

July 9th, 2003, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by poorme
For TB :
I suggest you write a book, "How to success in the matrix business" and have it sold in your site in addition to ebooks that you are selling.

QSA world is the site where the casting odds is also added.

They would never do that because the entire premise of the Matrix is to scam people out of their money. Why would they tell the customers how to win.

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by poorme
For TB :
I suggest you write a book, "How to success in the matrix business" and have it sold in your site in addition to ebooks that you are selling.

QSA world is the site where the casting odds is also added.

Perhaps I will.....of course I didn't make any money at QSA World......but did get refunded without asking.....

MysticX23

July 9th, 2003, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by poorme

QSA world is the site where the casting odds is also added.

what does that mean?

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by concerned
They would never do that because the entire premise of the Matrix is to scam people out of their money. Why would they tell the customers how to win.

Hmm, actually, just a little secret, I have wrote a document on how to succede in the matrix community, and have sold some copies.....

Oopps.....It's not a secret anymore......

By the way I don't scam anyone, and I take that personally....

hurley9192

July 9th, 2003, 08:18 PM

that's kind of my theory as well...

the people at the top of the list are either really lucky or have insider info...

which is why the people that get screwed are the ones that are on the outside and are probably innocent people who think they are getting a good deal.

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by concerned
This is exactly why these are considered schemes. Obviously, you don't want to be number 20,000, as most people don't. That is why the matrix collapses and 19,000 people get screwed.

In response to you making more money on the matrix, my reply is one of 2 scenarios.

You were lucky to get in at the very begining, or you were an insider that only got in at the begining because you knew that you were screwing someone else out of their money.

Actually, I knew what I was doing, after trial and error......

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by hurley9192
that's kind of my theory as well...

the people at the top of the list are either really lucky or have insider info...

which is why the people that get screwed are the ones that are on the outside and are probably innocent people who think they are getting a good deal.

So seeing how I have bad luck, I must really be evil, huh...

No I don't think so, I just figured it out by trial and error.

Just like I went to the casino the other month, and after loosing, I figured out what I was doing wrong at the blackjack table and corrected it and started winning......

MysticX23

July 9th, 2003, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by hurley9192
that's kind of my theory as well...

the people at the top of the list are either really lucky or have insider info...

which is why the people that get screwed are the ones that are on the outside and are probably innocent people who think they are getting a good deal.

well..thats how the world goes..i live in the silicon valley and with stocks and all that...the ones who make the most bucks are the ones on the insides of intel, sunmicro, cicso...but outside innocent people can also make money like i have...yes i have been screwed on a site, but you learn tricks on how to make money if you think about it carefully.

MysticX23

July 9th, 2003, 08:29 PM

of course, i don't think you can make it if the line is already near the 100's

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 08:32 PM

Yes exactly, trial and error is how you learn what you are doing wrong.....

concerned

July 9th, 2003, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by tcb1969a
Yes exactly, trial and error is how you learn what you are doing wrong.....

I don't think that is how people learn everything. If that was true, then people would get into several head on accidents before they learned how to drive, but then they would be dead, since they also had to learn how to put their seatbelt on by trial and error.

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by concerned
I don't think that is how people learn everything. If that was true, then people would get into several head on accidents before they learned how to drive, but then they would be dead, since they also had to learn how to put their seatbelt on by trial and error.

Ok, that was funny.....lol

But let me reiterate my point.

The most successful people learn by trial and error......

concerned

July 9th, 2003, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by tcb1969a
Ok, that was funny.....lol

But let me reiterate my point.

The most successful people learn by trial and error......

My point wasn't so obvious. My point is that some people can't afford the trial and error method when they are given false hope about recieveing a product in 1 to 2 months. Very poor people that can barely afford to buy food get screwed because they can't afford something at full price, and are expecting to get a product sent to them guaranteed, not "guaranteed if you are one of the chosen few".

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by concerned
My point wasn't so obvious. My point is that some people can't afford the trial and error method when they are given false hope about recieveing a product in 1 to 2 months. Very poor people that can barely afford to buy food get screwed because they can't afford something at full price, and are expecting to get a product sent to them guaranteed, not "guaranteed if you are one of the chosen few".

Well, I am poor too you know, in fact my expenses are more than my income, yet I took a chance seeing no light at the end of the tunnel, and now have money to pay off some of my credit card debt.....hmm

concerned

July 9th, 2003, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by tcb1969a
Well, I am poor too you know, in fact my expenses are more than my income, yet I took a chance seeing no light at the end of the tunnel, and now have money to pay off some of my credit card debt.....hmm

I am talking about poor people that are on welfare that are being screwed.

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by concerned
I am talking about poor people that are on welfare that are being screwed.

If they are on welfare, where do they get the money to purchase anything......

concerned

July 9th, 2003, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by tcb1969a
If they are on welfare, where do they get the money to purchase anything......

THEY GET THEIR MONEY FROM WELFARE YOU IDIOT. BECAUSE SOMEONE IS ON WELFARE, MEANS THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS GIVING THEM MONEY TO SURVIVE. THAT IS THE STUPIDEST QUESTION I HAVE EVER HEARD.

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by concerned
THEY GET THEIR MONEY FROM WELFARE YOU IDIOT. BECAUSE SOMEONE IS ON WELFARE, MEANS THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS GIVING THEM MONEY TO SURVIVE. THAT IS THE STUPIDEST QUESTION I HAVE EVER HEARD.

My point is, why are they spending the money the government gives them TO PAY FOR BILLS SUCH AS UTILITIES TO LIVE ON...

concerned

July 9th, 2003, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by tcb1969a
My point is, why are they spending the money the government gives them TO PAY FOR BILLS SUCH AS UTILITIES TO LIVE ON...

BECAUSE THEY ARE HOPEFUL THAT WITH THE FEW EXTRA DOLLARS THAT THEY HAVE, THEY MIGHT GET SOMETHING FOR IT!!!!

THEY MIGHT BE THE EASIEST TO SCAM BECAUSE OF FALSELY THINKING THEY ARE GUARANTEED TO GET SOMETHING FOR THE LITTLE BIT OF MONEY THEY HAVE!!!!!

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by concerned
BECAUSE THEY ARE HOPEFUL THAT WITH THE FEW EXTRA DOLLARS THAT THEY HAVE, THEY MIGHT GET SOMETHING FOR IT!!!!

THEY MIGHT BE THE EASIEST TO SCAM BECAUSE OF FALSELY THINKING THEY ARE GUARANTEED TO GET SOMETHING FOR THE LITTLE BIT OF MONEY THEY HAVE!!!!!

If they read the faqs and TOS, then they would know what they are getting into..........

mikv

July 9th, 2003, 09:20 PM

I guess that's the argument, the Faq's and Tos's need to state clearly that "Most People Won't Be Getting The Free Items". It is agreed on both sides that alot of people won't be getting their products or cash or whatever the case is, so it should be stated in the TOS or Faq or somewhere on the website that is easy to find and be completely legible.

concerned

July 9th, 2003, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by tcb1969a
If they read the faqs and TOS, then they would know what they are getting into..........

I have read plenty of faqs and TOS, and NOWHERE, does it say that if you come in after the first 5% of the people, you are guaranteed "NOT" to get a thing, but please send us your money so that other people can get their things.

They only make vague statements like

YOU WILL CYCLE WHEN THE MOON AND THE SUN CRASH INTO EACHOTHER.

I know that is an exaduration, but it isn't far off.

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by concerned
I have read plenty of faqs and TOS, and NOWHERE, does it say that if you come in after the first 5% of the people, you are guaranteed "NOT" to get a thing, but please send us your money so that other people can get their things.

They only make vague statements like

YOU WILL CYCLE WHEN THE MOON AND THE SUN CRASH INTO EACHOTHER.

I know that is an exaduration, but it isn't far off.

Well.....that was pretty funny though............

mikv

July 9th, 2003, 09:24 PM

That is it. Watchdog should spread that through the whole commmunity. Have them state clearly in the FAQ or TOS that MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT RECEIVE THE FREE GIFT. They are honest and they don't hide anything from the customer so they should not keep that vital bit of information.

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by mikv
That is it. Watchdog should spread that through the whole commmunity. Have them state clearly in the FAQ or TOS that MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT RECEIVE THE FREE GIFT. They are honest and they don't hide anything from the customer so they should not keep that vital bit of information.

Hmm...it would not make a difference one way or the other, Watch Dog has made it plain and clear that it is the Matrix model that is the problem. And he will make sure all Matrix sites get shut down.....

mikv

July 9th, 2003, 09:31 PM

Right, I guess that is the whole basis for this website. I probably sounded like I was making a case for matrix sites as well to stay open. I have no bearing one way or the other, I just enjoy reading some of these conversations.

concerned

July 9th, 2003, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by tcb1969a
Hmm...it would not make a difference one way or the other, Watch Dog has made it plain and clear that it is the Matrix model that is the problem. And he will make sure all Matrix sites get shut down.....

IT IS PLAIN AND CLEAR. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW HONEST THE OWNER IS, IT ISN'T ABOUT HONESTY. IT IS ABOUT MATH, AND THE LAW. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE INTENTIONS ARE, IT IS STILL WRONG.

PETER PAN STOLE FROM THE RICH AND GAVE TO THE POOR. HE HAD GREAT INTENTIONS, AND WAS HONEST, BUT IT WAS STILL AGAINST THE LAW

mikv

July 9th, 2003, 09:35 PM

but it is a good idea if the owners would do something like that and see if it matters. Honesty really is the key in business, you'll buy from someone you feel is an honest person in life.

tcb1969a

July 9th, 2003, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by concerned
IT IS PLAIN AND CLEAR. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW HONEST THE OWNER IS, IT ISN'T ABOUT HONESTY. IT IS ABOUT MATH, AND THE LAW. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE INTENTIONS ARE, IT IS STILL WRONG.

PETER PAN STOLE FROM THE RICH AND GAVE TO THE POOR. HE HAD GREAT INTENTIONS, AND WAS HONEST, BUT IT WAS STILL AGAINST THE LAW

Hmm....wasn't that Robin Hood....

concerned

July 9th, 2003, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by tcb1969a
Hmm....wasn't that Robin Hood....

OOPS. YOU GOT ME

mikv

July 9th, 2003, 09:38 PM

na mikv.

uwantme

July 10th, 2003, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by hurley9192
it seems like your best bet would be to find items that are something that a person would go buy in real life and that you can get at a 20% or less cost of retail price and sell the item, run a 2 person matrix list and use some of the profit for autocycling. Also, if you get a good enough site, you could sell some advertising on the site and make some profit there as well.

But then, you are essentially just selling 2 things for the price of one of them retail. i.e. a dvd player and cd player for the price of one of them.

I.e. you buy into the matrix by purchasing a dvd player for $100, then every 2 people that sign up, the first on the list gets a cd player as well. And then when you auto cycle with some of the profit and ad revenue, you would be able to cycle everyone.

However, that would be very charitable because you would essentially be giving away the cd player for free and surviving on just selling the dvd players at a huge profit.

kinda like the basis for my site, and I know of a site that s also already running their site very similiar to this...

uwantme

July 10th, 2003, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by mikv
I guess that's the argument, the Faq's and Tos's need to state clearly that "Most People Won't Be Getting The Free Items". It is agreed on both sides that alot of people won't be getting their products or cash or whatever the case is, so it should be stated in the TOS or Faq or somewhere on the website that is easy to find and be completely legible.

I already posted this once but sites do explain this. Copied below is from the first paragraph of the user agreement of the site that Im a member of:

You consent that you understand that the free gifts we give away are based on sales and that if the sales are not met to qualify for the free gift then it will not be given, because of this no one is guaranteed the free gift.

I think that says it very clearly and its not even hidden somewhere on their site its in the first paragraph!

MysticX23

July 10th, 2003, 01:09 AM

yea. just hopefully people read the tos..i think many times, they just look over it a little bit cuz its long.

uwantme

July 10th, 2003, 01:14 AM

Yeah but as I posted above this site didnt try to hide it in the long terms and conditions. They put it in the very first paragraph so people would see it..

but kinda on the other hand if a customer doesnt take the time to read the TOS thats kinda dumb on their part and totally isnt the site owners fault. I mean most TOSs are put there for a reason and if anyone will join a program without reading all of what they are getting into then they really have no one to blame but themselves..

tcb1969a

July 10th, 2003, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by uwantme
Yeah but as I posted above this site didnt try to hide it in the long terms and conditions. They put it in the very first paragraph so people would see it..

but kinda on the other hand if a customer doesnt take the time to read the TOS thats kinda dumb on their part and totally isnt the site owners fault. I mean most TOSs are put there for a reason and if anyone will join a program without reading all of what they are getting into then they really have no one to blame but themselves..

Unfortunately, Watch Dog would say that the TOS would be irrelovent if the Matrix sites are deamed illegal.....

MysticX23

July 10th, 2003, 02:32 AM

just curious, but is there a guideline for writing a TOS by the government or whatever, or can you write whatever u want if you are the company.

tcb1969a

July 10th, 2003, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by MysticX23
just curious, but is there a guideline for writing a TOS by the government or whatever, or can you write whatever u want if you are the company.

There is no guideline that I know of, though it is a good idea to have a lawyer right one for you, seeing how people like to sue other people....

MysticX23

July 10th, 2003, 04:28 AM

but would some statements in TOS unintentionally defy current state laws?...do matrix owners look up some laws first, or they just look at other sites and put on it what they want.

tcb1969a

July 10th, 2003, 04:31 AM

Well there is no law on the books that defines Matrix sites as illegal, but it is always a good idea to check with a lawyer concerning your individual state laws governing such.

Also, as Watch Dog states, that if Matrix sites are said to be illegal by the courts, then it won't matter what you have in the TOS.....

hurley9192

July 10th, 2003, 12:54 PM

the bottom line as a whole is that most matrix sites are flat out ponzi schemes.

Maybe there are a few that are getting closer to being a legitimate business, but a matrix site in the purest sense was set up for people to receive something for much cheaper than they would normally buy something. The site eliminated their cost of sales pretty much by "selling" something that they didn't have to pay for in the first place.

tcb1969a

July 10th, 2003, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by hurley9192
the bottom line as a whole is that most matrix sites are flat out ponzi schemes.

Maybe there are a few that are getting closer to being a legitimate business, but a matrix site in the purest sense was set up for people to receive something for much cheaper than they would normally buy something. The site eliminated their cost of sales pretty much by "selling" something that they didn't have to pay for in the first place.

Most matrix sites are explained to the customer how they work, and no one sticks a gun to a customers head and tells them to order...It is still free will............

mikv

July 10th, 2003, 01:37 PM

This broken record is sounding worse every day. Being that most site owners do not even have a license to do business in the state they operate in, how would you figure any of these people would look up codes or laws against what they are doing. They are "hoping" that it is legal and they are banking on the court decision just like watchdog. I highly doubt TCB has looked into any laws being some of the posts that have been written by him/her have no legal basis. It's all speculation on the part of everybody and since there is no legal backing all you hear is the same argument to every new question.

MysticX23

July 10th, 2003, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by hurley9192
Maybe there are a few that are getting closer to being a legitimate business, but a matrix site in the purest sense was set up for people to receive something for much cheaper than they would normally buy something. The site eliminated their cost of sales pretty much by "selling" something that they didn't have to pay for in the first place.

show me proof of that and i will bow down to you. i think you are assuming(but then again, so am i).

however, yes, i believe matrix sites are improving their business model, but i don't think that is was illegitimate to begin with. now they are finding new ways to advertise, cycle people through, and provide better customer service.

concerned

July 10th, 2003, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by uwantme
I already posted this once but sites do explain this. Copied below is from the first paragraph of the user agreement of the site that Im a member of:

You consent that you understand that the free gifts we give away are based on sales and that if the sales are not met to qualify for the free gift then it will not be given, because of this no one is guaranteed the free gift.

I think that says it very clearly and its not even hidden somewhere on their site its in the first paragraph!

This also doesn't say that unless you were one of the first 5% to sign up, then you are GUARANTEED NOT TO RECIEVE A FREE GIFT. Just making a guarantee that anyone gets a free gift is one thing, but unless you are one of the first few, you are screwed.

MysticX23

July 10th, 2003, 03:00 PM

tcb1969a

July 10th, 2003, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by mikv
This broken record is sounding worse every day. Being that most site owners do not even have a license to do business in the state they operate in, how would you figure any of these people would look up codes or laws against what they are doing. They are "hoping" that it is legal and they are banking on the court decision just like watchdog. I highly doubt TCB has looked into any laws being some of the posts that have been written by him/her have no legal basis. It's all speculation on the part of everybody and since there is no legal backing all you hear is the same argument to every new question.

Are you a lawyer?

And yes I have looked up this issue of whether a Matrix is legal or not....I did a lot more research than you might think........

MysticX23

July 10th, 2003, 05:32 PM

maybe this is irrelavent, not sure, but if you sell on ebay as a "business" but it isn't official, what are you suppost to do?

like before, i like to search and buy stuff cheap and resell it for a higher price hopefully..if i do that enuf, i make money..is that considered a business when you sell stuff?

if this is confusing, just wondering if it is legal to sell ebooks, from one ebook to hundreds at any price without having to deal with getting business license?

uwantme

July 10th, 2003, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by concerned
This also doesn't say that unless you were one of the first 5% to sign up, then you are GUARANTEED NOT TO RECIEVE A FREE GIFT. Just making a guarantee that anyone gets a free gift is one thing, but unless you are one of the first few, you are screwed.

Once again appearently you are choosing to read only what you want. Your right this sites TOS doesnt say if you arent one of the first 5% you get screwed, it says: NO ONE, let me repeat it again, NO ONE IS GUARENTEED THEIR FREE GIFT. this means first 5% and everyone else. I understood it very clearly when I joined that it meant no matter where I was in the list I was not guarenteed to get a free gift. I dont know how much more blunt and honest you can get then that and look at mystics reply:

why does it have to say "This also doesn't say that unless you were one of the first 5% to sign up, then you are GUARANTEED NOT TO RECIEVE A FREE GIFT. " i don't understand that part...first 5% of what?

He straight up didnt even understand your 5% scenerio so would would other customers? But I bet he understands what it means when it says NO ONE IS GUARENTEED THEIR FREE GIFT.. so mmmm.. I wonder which one is better to have.

mikv

July 10th, 2003, 11:02 PM

To just say that nobody is guaranteed the free gift is still ducking being completely honest. Change that wording to MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT RECEIVE THE FREE GIFT. What is so hard about that. You say the other statement "explains" that, but why explain it when you can just say it right out. Don't use 20 words when only 8 will do. I challenge any matrix owner to add that line to their website where it is completely legible, and then let's see what your posts look like after that. I am pretty sure that the moment any site owner adds those words, they will not be seen in this forum again.

uwantme

July 10th, 2003, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by mikv
To just say that nobody is guaranteed the free gift is still ducking being completely honest. Change that wording to MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT RECEIVE THE FREE GIFT. What is so hard about that. You say the other statement "explains" that, but why explain it when you can just say it right out. Don't use 20 words when only 8 will do. I challenge any matrix owner to add that line to their website where it is completely legible, and then let's see what your posts look like after that. I am pretty sure that the moment any site owner adds those words, they will not be seen in this forum again.

How is that ducking being honest? Its ver clear to me... However for the website it came from the other doesnt apply to them anyway. They sell tangible goods(jewelry to be precise) and you still get into the matrix. And they cut off all their lists at a certain number around 100 names I think, so they dont have endless lists. They continue tp cycle the names off their list by selling the jewelry as is(because its worth that much without a free gift invovled), an autocycle fund, and a third website they built that is in no way matrix, mlm invovled that sells 10,000 products. 75% off all their profits from this site also goes to helping cycle names off the list until the list is empty.

So must if not all of the people on their list will cycle. To put:
MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT RECEIVE THE FREE GIFT
would be dishonest for them..

However I still cannot get over your comment. Saying they arent being completely honest still. This is from the first paragraph of the matrix site i am a member of:

You consent that you understand that the free gifts we give away are based on sales and that if the sales are not met to qualify for the free gift then it will not be given, because of this no one is guaranteed the free gift.

How can you get much clear than that.

I am also for sh*ts and giggles going to post the whole first paragraph of their tos:

By purchasing our jewelry, e-books, and/or program packages you are stating you have read, understand and agree to abide by our terms and conditions. You are confirming you understand that you only bought our jewelry, e-books, and programs not the free gift. You are also stating that the free gift is not why you purchased the jewelry, e-books and/or programs. You agree you purchased the jewelry, e-books and/or programs for their value and the fact they offer you a return on your investment in them and they are worth the price you payed for them. You understand that refunds are only available with 48 hours of your purchase and getting a refund makes you ineligible for the free gift. You consent that you understand that the free gifts we give away are based on sales and that if the sales are not met to qualify for the free gift then it will not be given, because of this no one is guaranteed the free gift. Purchasing any of our programs for the sole purpose of attaining the free gift is prohibited, you must be making the purchase because you want and understand the value of the jewelry, e-books and programs themselves, and not the free gift.THIS PROGRAM IS VOID WHERE PROHIBITED BY LAW

I mean wow.. What part of that is clear or could you possibly not understand? If its something you cant comprehend then you shouldnt even be allowed on the net unsupervised.

peterdragin

July 10th, 2003, 11:38 PM

This TOS thing is getting a little wild.

Here is my 2 cents.

You are never going to convince a site owner that his TOS is wrong, and it's the other way for people who dispute the TOS, you are never going to convince him it's right..

I call it a draw..

uwantme

July 10th, 2003, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by peterdragin
This TOS thing is getting a little wild.

Here is my 2 cents.

You are never going to convince a site owner that his TOS is wrong, and it's the other way for people who dispute the TOS, you are never going to convince him it's right..

I call it a draw..

Im not a site owner, not yet at least.. This is the TOS of the site im a member of. This is coming from a members point of view not a site owners.

mikv

July 11th, 2003, 02:39 AM

I sprouted that? I merely meant what I stated, why use 20 words when 8 will do. I agree it is plain as day on that site and you've pitched them very adamantly, I hope you're being paid for all you are doing for them. I thought more you were speaking in general, I didn't think you were still in full pitch. Forgive me for that. I would just like to see "matrix for dummies" and have it specifically stated, MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT RECEIVE THE FREE GIFT. Of course with the site you speak of, this doesn't apply. Although they never tell the customer they will NOT receive the free gift. They merely state that the customer is not "guaranteed" the free product, leaving it "open to chance". One might be left with a feeling of, ok maybe your not guaranteed but that doesn't mean you won't get it, attitude .

I fully agree with your point about the jewelery's worth and the variety offered to the different packages. That's a given, but it's when you're talking about the free gifts, is where the site is still a matrix site. Although the product is above average and jewelery is definitely worth it, when it comes to the free gifts, their TOS could use a little "restructuring".
I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, I know you are very serious about the site you speak of.

MysticX23

July 11th, 2003, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by mikv
Forgive me for that. I would just like to see "matrix for dummies" and have it specifically stated, MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT RECEIVE THE FREE GIFT. Of course with the site you speak of, this doesn't apply. Although they never tell the customer they will NOT receive the free gift. They merely state that the customer is not "guaranteed" the free product, leaving it "open to chance". One might be left with a feeling of, ok maybe your not guaranteed but that doesn't mean you won't get it, attitude .

Why do you want to see that? That is bad advertising. DUH! I don't see in BIG BOLD WORDS or in little words on the super lotto here in CA saying, you probably won't win...or in Vegas saying you'll probably lose money here. If that doesn't apply to them, why should it apply to the matrix systems?