Very BAD matrix Business Practices

[concerned]

This is a quote from mystic in another thread. I thought my response should begin a new thread.

Originally posted by MysticX23
true many sites have closed..but i've seen many that are opening up again. just check top-matrix.com and see the new sites that are opening...

a few of the sites that are doing pretty good are sublime matrix and apple matrix...sublime is good cuz they state they will reset the matrix within X amount of time and that they won't refund you the money. i see the good side in that is if you aren't near the top, u can still make money because the people near the top will want to buy more "ebooks/slots" to cycle themselves thru since they are so close. then the next person in line might wanna cycle themselves thru and buy...so right before the matrix closes and restarts, you'll have a lot of people buying and cycling, and i'm pretty sure they understand the faq.

applematrix, on the otherhand, has a full refund if the list doens't move for 2 weeks..and it doesn't allow more than 1 purchase per 24 hours. almost everyday, there is a purchase for the cheaper slots.

Your example with sublime is completely HORRIBLE. I looked at their site. All that the reset does is allow them a way out of meeting their obligations. It also allows them (IF THEY ARE SCAMMERS, WHICH I THINK THEY ARE) to reset their matrix as soon as their buddies cycle, and before anybody else cycles, or it also allows them to reset the matrix before ANYBODY cycles. They also encourage people that are next to cycle to buy up more spots at the end of the list so that they can cycle before the matrix resets, and the whole time, they might just reset the matrix anyways, even after the person put more money in.

Your applematrix example is even worse. They have a device in their system that allows the matrix owners to string along the customers. In this example, if they have a very long list that stops cycling, all they have to do is add 1 bogus name to the end of that list every 2 weeks. What this would do for a 20 cycle matrix is string along the current customers for 40 weeks (approx 9 months) by adding 1 bogus person to the end every 2 weeks without having to cycle 1 person. This allows them a 9 month headstart to head out of town. These are the most unethical business practices that I have seen yet that these matrix owners do.

[concerned]

I continued to look at the applematrix site and things are looking worse for them. They don't even have any contact info at all. (OOPS, I FINALLY FOUND IT, BUT IT WAS KIND OF HIDDEN, JUST AN EMAIL ADDRESS THOUGH) At least some of the other places give an email address. The only way you can contact them is through a forum that they made up. BIG DEAL. Also, if you look at their lists, they don't put your name, they put your email address there instead. There are 2 problems with this. The first, is that any BOZO can go and get your email address and sign you up for tons of porno (or whatever) lists, and all of a sudden your mailbox is flooded with crap. The second problem, is this:

Almost everybody on there either has a hotmail, msn, yahoo, or other free email address. This totally smells like a scam where all their buddies are at the top of the list.

[mikv]

Not to mention that the applematrix girls are drunk in every picture that they post on the website. I can't believe they post those pictures and expect the customers to "trust" them, you can obviously see where the proceeds of your ebook purchase go...to purchase their next bottle of booze.

The fact of the matter is there is a serious FLAW in EVERY single matrix site out there and that is the structure of the list every time. No matter how they stretch it, turn it, twist it, or whatever they try the MATH will ALWAYS be the same and the EQUATION will ALWAYS FAIL.

Although some site owners know how to prolong the inevitable in some cases, they still end up with stagnant lists and pissed off customers.

[concerned]

Originally posted by mikv
Not to mention that the applematrix tricks are drunk in every picture that they post on the website. I can't believe they post those pictures and expect the customers to "trust" them, you can obviously see where the proceeds of your ebook purchase go...to purchase their next bottle of booze.

The fact of the matter is there is a serious FLAW in EVERY single matrix site out there and that is the structure of the list every time. No matter how they stretch it, turn it, twist it, or whatever they try the MATH will ALWAYS be the same and the EQUATION will ALWAYS FAIL.

Although some site owners know how to prolong the inevitable in some cases, they still end up with stagnant lists and pissed off customers.

You got that right. My point here was that most of the matrix supporters keep saying that they want to take the matrix concept and make it better. Well, here is a group that has taken the matrix concept and made it a LOT worse.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by concerned
I continued to look at the applematrix site and things are looking worse for them. They don't even have any contact info at all. (OOPS, I FINALLY FOUND IT, BUT IT WAS KIND OF HIDDEN, JUST AN EMAIL ADDRESS THOUGH) At least some of the other places give an email address. The only way you can contact them is through a forum that they made up. BIG DEAL. Also, if you look at their lists, they don't put your name, they put your email address there instead. There are 2 problems with this. The first, is that any BOZO can go and get your email address and sign you up for tons of porno (or whatever) lists, and all of a sudden your mailbox is flooded with crap. The second problem, is this:

Almost everybody on there either has a hotmail, msn, yahoo, or other free email address. This totally smells like a scam where all their buddies are at the top of the list.

Wow.... I had never seen applematrix before..... Do not really like their site and not one I would join... You are right about the email addresses...

You reckon they were trying to use the motto "Sex Sells"?

[concerned]

Originally posted by uwantme
You reckon they were trying to use the motto "Sex Sells"?

YES. And who knows, the owners could be two guys with beer bellys. HAHAHA

[uwantme]

Originally posted by concerned
YES. And who knows, the owners could be two guys with beer bellys. HAHAHA

Actually if I had read through the site a little more I could have answered my own question.. This is from the apple girls link on their site:

My name is Adrianna and my sister and I put this together because we were tired of getting ripped off by other matrix sites. We have different rules and ways to get off of stagnating lists. All of our lists are only 2 deep so you cycle faster!

No I don't have a boyfriend but I am looking (Kelly is not!). Here are the requirements. You must be smarter than me. You must be cool (sorry nerds!) and must know how to treat a woman. I don't put up with B.S. I make my own money and I don't care about worthless stuff like race or crap like that. Email me and chat with me anytime. Join my matrix and I'll give you a faster response. Try to send a picture if you're serious!


Here are some f* up picks of me testing my camera phone. I think I should get another one!! I'll post more pics soon.
--Adrianna


Wow... I love their professional business manner......

[tcb1969a]

Well........AppleMatrix might be a little unorthodox on their business words.....but fact is their site is a hit. They have many customers. Of course even I do not agree with their lists containing peoples email address.....

[peterdragin]

The spam bots would have a field day with them. Maybe they already have ??

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by peterdragin
The spam bots would have a field day with them. Maybe they already have ??

Yes undoubtedly, though they say some of their customers do not give their real email addresses or at least it is a junk mail address.....

[poorme]

Well........AppleMatrix might be a little unorthodox on their business words.....but fact is their site is a hit. They have many customers.

I hope those names are real.

[hurley9192]

typical...it's the ugly one that's looking for a boyfriend...maybe she feels that if she shows enough cleavage, that she will get people to sign up for their matrix.

[uwantme]

well, Im not a guy but, I have no problem checking out chicks and all the pictures turned me away from the site...blah.....

[concerned]

In an attempt to get this thread back on track also, I was looking at the apple matrix rules, and read this one.

2. There are NO CASH OPTIONS for free gifts. You must take the gift you cycled for.

I think that it is kind of funny that they say that there is NO CASH OPTIONS when all of their prizes are CASH PRIZES. It looks like they either copied from someone else, or they were running another matrix that failed, and used the same info in their new site. Those are my opinions anyway.

[Talented Mr Rae]

when they opened they did have a couple of matrices which were for products, but only one person joined those lists so they were scrapped and the entrees refunded.

[uwantme]

At least they did refund them then...

[concerned]

OK, in another thread, it was discussed that applematrix.com was shut down, and then reopened as applematrix.us. I looked at their new site today and I am quite supprised that they have managed to make their website even worse then before.

First of all, earlier in this thread, I quoted their rules page, or as many of you know them as TOS. On their new page, they have LOST their rules/TOS page. Instead, they have a "How it works" page. This is what it says.

1. Purchase one of out ebooks.

2. An ebook purchase gets you into the matrix.

3. When you move to the top of the matrix you are paid.

That is all! There are no other instructions, TOS, FAQ, or rules anywhere else.

Also, most matrix owners say that they are not "SELLING THE SPOT INTO THE MATRIX, they are selling an ebook, and you get endered for free."

These girls actually have a link titled, "BUY A SPOT" which refers people to the page where you can buy your entry into the matrix. When I originally saw their site, it was bad, but this is definately the WORST matrix site of all.

What's next, are they going to type into their page:

"WE ARE RUNNING AN ILLEGAL PONZI SCHEME HERE, PLEASE INVEST YOUR MONEY HERE, AND YOU WILL NEVER SEE IT AGAIN!"

That would be the ONLY way that they can make their site worse.

[Adrianna]

So what are my bad business practices?
Offering refunds?
Pa-Leeze!

[Adrianna]

When our site was shut down by a jealous matrix site owner we had to get another site up quickly so as not to lose the confidence of our customers. I'm working on a rules page for people who don't know how the site works but I was mostly interested in GETTING THE SITE UP to alleve customers fears.

Let me tell you why we are so popular. It's not because we try to "sell sex". (That was posted on some other matrix site message boards as well) The reason we are popular is because we have set up a FAIR matrix site. We have some of the strictest rules out there. We also have a newsletter sent out several times a week for members only. We also allow folks to email other members without me knowing about it. We have an automatic "reboot" where you can be automaticcly re-entered once you cycle. We have taken matrix sites to the next level.

Most of the attacks against our website are personal. Saying we look drunk or try to sell sex is STUPID and RUDE. People do not buy into matrix sites to get laid. They buy into matrix sites to buy ebooks and have a chance at getting extra money.

[concerned]

Originally posted by Adrianna
So what are my bad business practices?
Offering refunds?
Pa-Leeze!

First of all, I just want to say that I don't think that the matrix "business" is legit, but if it was, these are just a few of the things you should change. Of course, your business is basically modeled after a pyramid scheme, so that alone makes it a bad business practice.

For starters, you don't have any information as to exactly how your site works. Just a general statement. Second, you don't have a TOS, which most matrix owners try to claim is a binding agreement. Third, your link to purchase into your scam says, "Buy a Spot", not "Buy an ebook", which is a classic sign that this is a pyramid scheme. For a long time, other matrix owners have been arguing that they are not selling spots into the matrix, and that is how they are TRYING to justify that they are legal.

Also, you don't seem to have any Business Plan whatsoever, and you, or your site designer, does not even have any marketing skills. They don't even know how to place a picture correctly.

On the topic of pictures. There is a picture of you on the front goofing around and it appears to be drunk. That is just the start of the unprofessionalism shown on your site. That plus the fact that you are asking for dates on your "business" site shows your lack of business skills. Maybe Pepsi should take your marketing skills. Maybe they will sell more pepsi. The CEO could get drunk, and film comercials. Then they can post on the can, "please date me, I'm lonely. Call me here"

By the way, if I were to "invest" on your crap site, and my email easn't working, could I call you? NO, because there is no phone number. Could I mail you a check? NO, because there is no mailing address.

Do you even have a "Business License"?

Do you have employees?

Do you pay taxes?

Do you have any legal help, such as a lawyer on retainer?

These are all things that legitimate business have.

I'll stop there for now, and let you catch up.

[Bulldog]

Hurley...that was some good stuff about the "ugly one" LOL

Concerned...you bring up many valid points. I am anxiously awaiting an answer from these site owners. This ought to be really good!

As for Applematrix, I really hope this was a typo:

Saying we look drunk or try to sell sex is STUPID and RUDE. People do buy into matrix sites to get laid.

That is a new conxept if you ask me.

NOTE TO APPLEMATRIX: Think about it - as concerned stated...if you are trying to run a business, contact information would be a lot more valuable then desperate pleas for a boyfriend.

This site needs to be shut down. But then again, maybe they will do it themselves by spamming again since they didn't learn their lesson the first time.

[tcb1969a]

Yes....it is wise to check with a lawyer, maybe 2 lawyers. Then I would ask Consumer Affairs in your area if your site follows the laws for your area.....Unless you want more problems.....

[MatrixWatch]

Tcb,
Would you consider typing up a brief testimonial in our "former site owners" section of the forums. I could make it a permanent message that every site owner could read. It would be your recommendation to them, and the story of what you had to go through. I think it would be a tremendous asset, since you are so experienced with this subject and even operated three sites!

[concerned]

Originally posted by Adrianna
When our site was shut down by a jealous matrix site owner we had to get another site up quickly so as not to lose the confidence of our customers. I'm working on a rules page for people who don't know how the site works but I was mostly interested in GETTING THE SITE UP to alleve customers fears.


You already had a rules page. I guoted from it. Why don't you just post it again? Maybe because the rules were misleading.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adrianna
Let me tell you why we are so popular. It's not because we try to "sell sex". (That was posted on some other matrix site message boards as well)

Then why on your website do you post this. It is a direct quote from your site.

[QUOTE]Originally posted on applematrix.us
No I don't have a boyfriend but I am looking (Kelly is not!). Here are the requirements. You must be smarter than me. You must be cool (sorry nerds!) and must know how to treat a woman. I don't put up with B.S. I make my own money and I don't care about worthless stuff like race or crap like that. Email me anytime.

Join my matrix and I'll give you a faster response.

Try to send a picture if you're serious!

Also, you should show proof that you are popular. There is a link from your website to another page of testamonials. At first someone might think that 30 posts are impressive, but those 30 posts are made by maybe 7-8 people. Also, on the bottom of that page it says,

Summit Your Own Testimony
Please only summit if you have RECEIVED the gift from Apple Matrix.

Why can't someone that HASN'T recieved a gift leave a testimony. Are you afraid that there will be more people that haven't gotten their gift, than those that have?


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adrianna
The reason we are popular is because we have set up a FAIR matrix site. We have some of the strictest rules out there.

You say on your website that you were tired of getting ripped off from other matrix sites. I've got news for you, it is the nature of the pyramid scheme that rips off other people. The SAME THING will happen to your lists also.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adrianna
Most of the attacks against our website are personal. Saying we look drunk or try to sell sex is STUPID and RUDE. People do buy into matrix sites to get laid. They buy into matrix sites to buy ebooks and have a chance at getting extra money.

This just speaks to your level of professionalism. If I had the choice between your matrix and another, I'd always chose the other based on professionalism. You are probably chasing away potential customers. (THAT WAS FREE BUSINESS ADVICE FOR YOU)

By the way, I don't know for sure, but MAYBE the other owners are trying to get rid of you, because they are trying to claim that a matrix is legal because they don't sell a "spot" into the matrix, but you claim that you are with your button. You are making a bad name for all of the other owners.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by watchdog
Tcb,
Would you consider typing up a brief testimonial in our "former site owners" section of the forums. I could make it a permanent message that every site owner could read. It would be your recommendation to them, and the story of what you had to go through. I think it would be a tremendous asset, since you are so experienced with this subject and even operated three sites!

Yes....I will, since I still respect you, even though you have been quite harsh with me. Give me a little bit though, still helping out a friend with a computer. I will have it posted by midday Wednesday.....

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by concerned


1. Purchase one of out ebooks.

2. An ebook purchase gets you into the matrix.

3. When you move to the top of the matrix you are paid.


Eeeek major no noooo, especially with people like everyone here watching matrix site =o\ Take it back to the drawing board this site needs editing...

[Adrianna]

If you don't like my site...so be it.

You think our advertising is bad...so what?

We are one of the most popular sites and their must be a reason. We have a very long and detailed TOS on the site at the bottom of the page. Check it out before you spit out more lies...

[MatrixWatch]

Concerned,
Just a quick note. Place a [/quote] when you end a direct quotation and want to state your comment to that quote. Then start the next quote with the command you are using [quote]. It makes is a little cleaner. Go ahead and try it, and I will delete this message when no longer necessary. Thanks.

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by concerned


Do you even have a "Business License"?

Do you have employees?

Do you pay taxes?

Do you have any legal help, such as a lawyer on retainer?

These are all things that legitimate business have.

I'll stop there for now, and let you catch up.


Hehee well not all business require all these things..... My aunt was in child care and all she needed to be legal was business license and a license to be a childcare provider...

She didnt have an employees or a lawyer on the side... In the matrix world having a lawyer would be smart! but i dont think having employees is a requirement...

[Agent|Star]

Adrianna...

One thing I know about these WatchDoggies... Ignore their posts here cause if you come and fight back you will become the next target to their complaints... Walk away from this site without leaving a comment...

Used this place, read what they say... Fix your site to the best that you can using their comments... Its all you can do... To come here and fight means they will outside of this forum come for you...

Poor TCB is facing some legal issues because of his strong debates he put up... Someone didn't like him and felt the need to make some calls and have him put under investigation...

Again, Adrianna let them point at you all they want, let them laugh if they doo... Dont respond to it =o\

[Adrianna]

Thanks for the advice.

It's nice to know that these folks don't play fair...

[MatrixWatch]

What?? This is nuts. So you are saying that we personally go after people who tick us off? That is just plain madness. We do not do this. We inform and discuss on these forums. That is all. We do not try to settle old scores. If there is ever a situation where we directly focus on a site it is when one of their customers come here and post a complaint or problem. That is when we feel the need to take action.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by BigStarr
Adrianna...

One thing I know about these WatchDoggies... Ignore their posts here cause if you come and fight back you will become the next target to their complaints... Walk away from this site without leaving a comment...

Used this place, read what they say... Fix your site to the best that you can using their comments... Its all you can do... To come here and fight means they will outside of this forum come for you...

Poor TCB is facing some legal issues because of his strong debates he put up... Someone didn't like him and felt the need to make some calls and have him put under investigation...

Again, Adrianna let them point at you all they want, let them laugh if they doo... Dont respond to it =o\


Listen to BigStarr, Adrianna, it would be wise to not fight these people on here.....You will regret it.....

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by watchdog
What?? This is nuts. So you are saying that we personally go after people who tick us off? That is just plain madness. We do not do this. We inform and discuss on these forums. That is all. We do not try to settle old scores. If there is ever a situation where we directly focus on a site it is when one of their customers come here and post a complaint or problem. That is when we feel the need to take action.



WatchDog... I know that is why you opened up the forums.. I am not implying you have any part in the targeting of sites. We are pretty sure it was indeed someone from this forum who caused TCB to go under investigation.. You cant help what other people do after reading comments here.. Some of you do target sites... I was not suggesting you..

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by watchdog
What?? This is nuts. So you are saying that we personally go after people who tick us off? That is just plain madness. We do not do this. We inform and discuss on these forums. That is all. We do not try to settle old scores. If there is ever a situation where we directly focus on a site it is when one of their customers come here and post a complaint or problem. That is when we feel the need to take action.


BigStarr is correct though Watch Dog, I was targeted by one of your members....He pretty much summed up he was a member of your site in the letter he sent Consumer Affairs.....

[MatrixWatch]

I would prefer that no one on these forums "target" sites. Our goal is to help the customers. Our goal is to inform the site owners. We are making many changes on a "though" level, and several site owners are realizing exactly what they got into, which they were not aware of before viewing these debates. That is powerful change by changing minds. There is no need for us to maliciously "attack" sites. Let's just continue to discuss and not promote fear in the hearts of those who want to come here to share their views.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by watchdog
I would prefer that no one on these forums "target" sites. Our goal is to help the customers. Our goal is to inform the site owners. We are making many changes on a "though" level, and several site owners are realizing exactly what they got into, which they were not aware of before viewing these debates. That is powerful change by changing minds. There is no need for us to maliciously "attack" sites. Let's just continue to discuss and not promote fear in the hearts of those who want to come here to share their views.

Also just to know, this person who reported me wanted Consumer Affairs to scrutinize my site the most......

[concerned]

Originally posted by Adrianna
So what are my bad business practices?
Offering refunds?
Pa-Leeze!

You say here that you offer refunds. Let me say this.

First, offering refunds is NOT a bad business practice. You are right.


NOW, let's look at your updated TOS.

*****************Refund Policy*****************

As a general rule NO REFUNDS are offered. But we do offer our RED PILL Option if you would like to leave a matrix.

[hurley9192]

TCB, I do feel bad that you were hurt by the report. Although, you have to admit that Watchdog has never said anything like that and has never encouraged people to go after other sites. In fact, they have criticized other anti-matrix people who try to be vigilantes.

As for Applematrix...your site does look pretty unprofessional and if you aren't trying to get others to sign up by promoting sex, then you are doing something you aren't trying to do. It is definitely hinting at a sex type of site with girls in bikinis looking like they are partying.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by hurley9192
TCB, I do feel bad that you were hurt by the report. Although, you have to admit that Watchdog has never said anything like that and has never encouraged people to go after other sites. In fact, they have criticized other anti-matrix people who try to be vigilantes.

As for Applematrix...your site does look pretty unprofessional and if you aren't trying to get others to sign up by promoting sex, then you are doing something you aren't trying to do. It is definitely hinting at a sex type of site with girls in bikinis looking like they are partying.

And you have to admit, that I have not said it was Watch Dog's fault. I merely said that it was one of his members that did so...I was never able to prove that time when I received a virus that wiped out my computer, but this time I know it was a member who reported my site, cause I have it in writing. Though I hold no ill will towards anyone, the person who reported me only thought he was doing what he believed was right and probably didn't realize I was shutting down at the end of August anyways. I respect your alls point of view, just sometimes I do not agree....And as always I take responsibility for my actions.....

[nicoleeubanks]

I can pretty much guarantee you IF a member of this site sent you a virus it was the same "guy" who emailed me and threatened to hack into a matrix site I frequent. I have posted a request to watchdog to "say something" to this member to let him know how wrong he is for what he has done.. Just a thought. I think if it's just one bad apple here then it's probably the same person as they(urlkiller-ebay name) are very vindictive and "ugly".

[hurley9192]

I'm doubting that urlkiller sent you a virus...no, it's not me, but I would be extremely surprised.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by nicoleeubanks
I can pretty much guarantee you IF a member of this site sent you a virus it was the same "guy" who emailed me and threatened to hack into a matrix site I frequent. I have posted a request to watchdog to "say something" to this member to let him know how wrong he is for what he has done.. Just a thought. I think if it's just one bad apple here then it's probably the same person as they(urlkiller-ebay name) are very vindictive and "ugly".

Did you just send me this email? I'll have to check. Are you saying that one of our members threatened to hack a matrix site? I take this kind of issue very seriously, and I have scolded members before, but I seriously doubt that it was the one whom you believe it is. I will look into it though. If I find that you are incorrect, then I WILL exspect a formal apology to the accused.

[MatrixWatch]

Now, bring this discussion back on track or start another thread.