YMMSS Recruiting Scam

[Arzel]

Apparently YMMSS members are now pushing recruiting (which they have always said they do not and one of the reasons YMMSS is not a Ponzi). So apparently YMMSS is now one more visible step to proving that they are a Ponzi.

Quotes from YMMSS Forums:

Trudy
Guest






Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 2:21 am Post subject: DOUBLE YMMSS membership instantly!

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We can at least DOUBLE YMMSS membership instantly! If every current YMMSS member "recruited" just ONE (Yes! ONE!) other person (friend, relation, colleague, etc) then the membership would immediately DOUBLE to over 50,000 !! Just imagine if each member brought just TWO others on board the 100,000 target would be in sight almost immediately!! And remember WE would ALL benefit instantly too! How about it folks? What about making this the plan by a certain date? Let each and every one of us do our bit to make YMMSS an unbelieveable success story for us all so we can achieve those results much sooner.

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newbody1
Site Admin


Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posts: 1628
Location: Ottawa,Ontario
Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject:

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I like the idea Trudy, and those who feel comfortable with recruiting I hope will follow your lead.

BTW - working on getting you activated again - let me know when you are and I will move this to the office.

Newbody1
_________________
Members helping members.

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Linda
Royalty


Joined: 08 Jun 2004

Posts: 208
Location: Michigan USA
Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject:

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I'm bringing in a new member Monday! (That makes "8" for me!!)

Regards,
Linda A

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Toni
Moderator


Joined: 11 Mar 2004

Posts: 383
Location: Illinois USA
Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject:

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Good job, Linda A!

Blessings,
_________________
Toni
To our success with YMMSS!!
Proud member since October 2003

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katzrus
Experienced


Joined: 11 Feb 2005

Posts: 36
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 5:29 am Post subject: Double YMMSS membership Instantly

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Hi Trudy,
This idea has been put forward several times and would work if everyone read the forums. I think only a small percentage of members actually visit the forum regularly so miss out on all the good things that happen here. The forum readers are probably all recruiting anyway, we need to get this idea to all the others.
Suggestion to the Mods........could YM send an email to every member suggesting that if everyone who could manage it recruited one (preferably 2 of course!) new member we could help get the cycle times back on track?
That way everyone would know about it and it may have good results.
Take care,
K.
_________________
We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same.

[surfer]

People that come in through the emoneynews
websites are recruited under the premise that
1) Every Single Member Gets Paid

2) There are NO requirements to Recruit

3) There are NO Monthly Commitments
Like you said Arzel, as the wheels have started
to fall off, there has been a big push to get people
to recruit more and more.

People are also being pushed to purchase as much
as they can afford to "help" themselves cycle faster.:rolleyes:

What a crock.

And you have to love it when the man who promised
cycle times would never go over 90 days starts to
refer to the unhappy peasants as "part of the problem"
because they aren't doing enough.
Doing the right things!
23 Apr 2005 - K-ADMIN
Doing the right things!
Hello!

First of all, I want to state that YMMSS program is working exactly as it was designed. The cycle days are not where we want them, but the system will correct that for us if we just let the system work. We all know the cycle days are still going up and will continue to do so until the funds that feed the Commissions Payable Account (CPA) exceed the Daily Commissions Due (DCD).

When Daily Commissions Due exceeds the funds that feed the Commissions Payable Account, the cycle days increase.

When the funds that feed the Commissions Payable Account exceeds the Daily Commissions Due, the cycle days go down.

The good news is that cycle days going up is the absolute worst thing that will every happen to any YMMSS affiliate for this cycle only. What do I mean by “this cycle only”. I mean that a day that has a Daily Commissions Due of $1,000,000 will be broken down into multiple days for the next cycle. For example, say that the funds that feed the daily Commissions Payable Account averages $200,000 a day so it would take 5 days to pay the Daily Commissions Due which spreads it over a 5 day period. On the next cycle these days Daily Commissions Due is reduced for those 5 days and cycle times more than likely go down.

This is what makes YMMSS different from any other business on or off the Internet. It is a fact that you will be paid if you view other people’s advertisements a minimum of 30 minutes a week. We have been paying our affiliates for almost 3 years. You will be paid based on the time and date that you acquired your position in our system. Those that obtained their position in front of you will be paid first and those that obtained their position after you will be paid after your position has been paid if they meet the requirements. There is not another system anywhere than can be fairer than your YMMSS income system.

What will stabilize or reduce the cycle times?

The number one thing that will reduce cycle times is sales. This includes retail advertising sales, wholesale advertising sales, sale of sponsor advertising, supporting those business that support YMMSS by purchasing their products through the banner advertising on our websites, and changing your “Recurring Income Option” to “My Recurring Income = 32 EPCs/$160”. Share the business with others and build the number of hours that YMMSS affiliates view others advertisements per week. These are things that everyone can do. YMMSS is our business, yours and ours. If you are not happy with the cycle days, then do something positive about it. We are doing our part. If you are not doing your part, then you are part of the problem with cycle days and not part of the solution.

What are we, Success Through Advertising, LLC, doing about it?

1. Searching for the “Right Person”. Our number one priority is to find the right person to lead our retail business unit. This is not an idea man or woman; it is a person who is successfully established in the advertising community and is already making a mid six figure income in commissioned sales that can hit the road running and have an immediate impact on the Commissions Payable Account.

2. Developing new Web based products that will feed the Commission’s Payable Account. Web based products include:

• Success Through Advertising Retail Site
• YMAuctions
• YMDirectory
• YMMail
• YMTV

3. Establishing more business relationships with companies that provide needed and wanted product and services for our membership that will feed the Commissions Payable Account.

4. Continue to develop multiple income flows by developing business relationships and acquiring assets that will provide income to the Commissions Payable Account through our multiple Business Units.

5. Continue to work with solution service providers to help them deliver on their promises that will allow us to expand our services to our affiliates.

These are just a few things that can be done for the benefit of all. Every day, every one of our employees do their very best to support you. If you have an issue other than complaining about cycle times, then we want to solve it. Complaining about cycle times helps no one. It takes time and effort on your part when you could be doing one of those things listed above to make a positive impact on the Commissions Payable Account. It requires us to take time from the things that we need to be doing to have a positive impact on the Commissions Payable Account. Help us, help you by being part of the solution to reduce the cycle days and not part of the problem.

Sincerely,

Kim

[sisco50]

Wow Now that is really something else! You must share the business with others in order to cycle? Where have I heard that before? :(

[ycchen]

Hmm.. I would consider this desperate 'recruiting' drive a big sign of closure ... :( Whether you are pro or anti-YMMSS, remember to keep all the proof of purchace because you might need them for the potential class lawsuit after YMMSS crashes in the very near future -- most probably this year.

[ComplexKid]

Ycchen - I agree that it's a scam, but why would it close outright? Okay maybe I'm naive, but YM still has a strong core of supporters, cycle times continue to go up, but people are still putting in a lot of money. Maybe not as much as before, but a lot, and Kim gets to keep the lion's share of it - it's a free ride. It could limp along for years paying a few positions a week, like CAN has been doing, with cycles increasing, but the faithful continuing to make donations. It's certainly bringing in more than the cost of the web space.

I wish it would close because the sooner it happens the less money people will lose, but I don't see it happening, not while Kim is still getting his regular "donation money".

[Salsa]

As someone who knows all too well how active--and even evangelical--some YMMSS recruiting campaigns are, I can only hope that their prospects have the calm and sense to look beyond the YMMSS circle when doing their due diligence. I'm sure that anyone with those basic abilities will find their way to Matrix Watch in short order, so I'll take this opportunity to share some of the insights I've gleaned while doing my own due diligence on YMMSS.

The good news about speaking to YMMSS prospects (compared to communicating with members who already have vested interests) is that it's much easier for them to keep their wits and to face the issues rationally.

When selling anything, the key moment for the salesman is not closing the sale or even collecting the money, it's knowing when to close, recognizing the moment when a prospect is weighing all the pros and cons of a particular purchase. The salesman watches carefully and offers the one more pro needed by the prospect in order to tip the balance, the sale is essentially made, and it's time to close.

After that key moment, all of the cons that the customer had previously considered seem to magically disappear from his mind. Once committed, he must believe that he made a good decision if he's to maintain a semblance of happiness. He may even try to drive a lemon of a car for years and be happy about it, simply because it's the car that he decided to buy.

Current YMMSS members are driving such a lemon. Some surely know it and are trying to cash out by recruiting new members. And just like a person trying to finally sell off his lemon of a car--only repeating to his prospects all of the pros that the original seller told him--these YMMSS recruiters are unlikely to mention the nightmarish list of cons that come with the package: Their too-late discovery that it's all one big con.

Perhaps the majority of currently active members, however, are in a different category. They truly believe that YMMSS is a good thing. They have so much invested in it--not just financially but, even more powerful than that, emotionally--that they must believe. They have accepted YMMSS as the answer to all their hopes and dreams. Some have even cashed in their entire retirement accounts to buy EPCs--and they cannot bring themselves to release those hopes and dreams no matter how irrational their original decision to join has proven to be. Their ability to excuse the continuous breakdowns, to embrace the bazaar fixes proposed and to deny reality is impressive.

We all fall victim to such patterns of denial when we make a bad decision. And, depending on how big and bad the decision is, the aftermath of finally coming to our senses can be devastatingly painful and humiliating.

The good news for new YMMSS prospects is that they still have their senses about them, and with a little due diligence they can easily avoid such a mind-bending mistake as buying into YMMSS.

The only pro that I have found in YMMSS is the intense camaraderie of its membership--which may prove useful when they need a shoulder to cry on in the near future--or perhaps file a class action lawsuit if feasible. Other than that, all I've seen is one big con.

Is it really that bad? As ComplexKid suggested, couldn't it go on forever but perhaps on a waning scale? The answer is, "No." And the reason is that the same mathematics that can let you imagine turning ten dollars into a billion in a few short years can also take every penny you "invest," but in much shorter order.

For example, projecting the cycle time rate of the past 90 days into the future, a $10 EPC purchased today would cycle to $640, paying your first $320 commission in the year 6475. That's 4,470 years from now. It's a preposterous number, I know, but it's also an impossibly optimistic one because it presumes that YMMSS will continue on as steady a footing as it has for the past 90 days. At the rate that cycle times have increased in the last three weeks (20/21 days), a $10 EPC purchased today would take nearly 12 years to cycle the first time, and fifty-million years to make its first $320 payout. The math works both ways.

Of course, YMMSS isn't going to be around in fifty-million years--or even twelve years. My point is simply that, mathematically, it can go on forever but it won't because there is no longer any real money in it for anyone but Kim. Yes, there may be some current members who are anxiously waiting for imminent and substantial payouts, but I have to believe that most of the serious Ponzi players got in and got out before now.

Apart from Kim--who takes 25% to 100% of everything up front (depending on a given member's positions--currently I'd estimate that he's taking an average of at least 80% from members who've joined within the last year--and I'll offer my calculations in a later post if requested)--I'd suspect that it's those remaining anxious and substantial players who are most intent on recruiting new members because fresh cash is necessary in order for them to get out and run to the bank...or their next Ponzi scheme.

Those then left in the ranks will be all the well-intentioned members who still truly believe (though doubts are rising) that YMMSS has long-term merit and who continue buying credits in order to help cycle their earlier purchases and to further support their false hopes. I know that some of them have much more money invested in YMMSS than they can afford to lose, and their investments seem only to be exceeded by their need and will to believe that their money is in good hands.

In the long term, however, I think that all they have in store for themselves is misery; not only because of ruined finances but because of the humiliation among relatives, friends and neighbors.

And such true believers can be the most influential recruiters of all. For example, I have a relative, the patriarch of four generations, who has relentlessly worked for the past two months to bring all of his relatives, employees, friends and their friends on board YMMSS. Mind you, he joined YMMSS only in February, himself, and he's been acting primarily on the advice of a "trusted friend" of his own. From conversations with him, it's clear to me that he has done no due diligence beyond communicating with YMMSSers. When I ask an intelligent question that he doesn't want to hear, he becomes exasperated by my stupidity. A typical response from him is his oft repeated, "Don't think about it, just do it! Trust me." According to him, my wife and I are about the only people he still knows who haven't joined YMMSS, and his main interest now is that we not be left behind. From discussions with other relatives who he's had call us, it seems that he really has recruited as many as he's said, and he's absolutely and avidly sincere.

Most people who know this man respect at least his business acumen because he has operated his own business for many years and his family has lived well. However, he admitted to me during one of our early conversations about YMMSS that even though he is well past retirement age he has no savings. He's now counting on YMMSS to provide for him and he has apparently invested at least low to mid five figures in it. He didn't tell me an exact number, but the context of the conversation led me to figure that he's put in at least twenty to forty-thousand dollars--mostly financed with credit cards, by the way.

And he's still buying and encouraging his recruits to buy EPCs every day. What do these new recruits have to look forward to?

Even an EPC purchased three months ago, on Feb 10, wouldn't cycle until September, 2006--assuming that the past 90 trend of cycle times could be maintained. The math aside, however, reaching that payout would require public enthusiasm for YMMSS to continue to grow, and somehow I expect it to wane, instead.

But even if member enthusiasm could be maintained, waiting two cycles in order for a $320 block of EPCs purchased today is not worthwhile. Again, if cycle times could continue the past 90 trend, 5/10/2005 purchases would cycle in September, 2007, paying its first $320 commission in 866 days. You're still going to be in the red, however, because the initial purchase would have cost $340.80 (considering the 6.5% processing fee). So, to take a profit, you'll have to wait for the next cycle. Again, using the last 90 day trend, September, 2007 purchases wouldn't cycle until 2018, a cycle time of 12.5 years. Now you will have finally taken a "profit" of $299.20. If at any time you are not faithful to the requirement of reading ads for half an hour every week, however, you will lose everything.

The ad-reading requirement is often portrayed by critics as "doing next to nothing," but as cycle times rise, it becomes ever more significant. For example, to get your $299.20 "profit," as above, you will be required to read ads for at least 330 hours. That works out to 91 cents an hour--not much to live on by today's standards, much less in 2018.

Some will object that projecting the past 90 day trend of cycle times so far into the future is not realistic. I absolutely agree, but for the past 90 days, a graph of the trend is a surprisingly straight line, and it's that straight line that I projected in order to make the above scenario. The true rate actually increased slightly over the period, however, so my projection of an 866 day cycle for purchases made today is probably not as accurate as other's estimates of 1000+ days. And those are probably not as accurate as the true trend, not just mathematical but psychological, which is that EPC purchases made today--or even last February--are unlikely to ever cycle.

When days that no EPC purchases were made during the last six months (due to reported glitches in the YMMSS purchasing system) are cycled through, I have considered that the upward spiral of cycle times may appear to flatten for a few days at a time in the near future. Have no illusion, however, that these stalls in the upward spiral will be permanent. They will be more than made up for in short order as their earlier predictions will have caused bursts of confidence to buy EPCs, thus slowing cycle times down the road all the more.

Because Kim's take from the scam has been nearly thirty-million dollars so far, I also considered that he might dump ten million or so into it at some point when cycles would naturally level off, anyway, thus causing a burst of confidence for members to buy more. But a one-day $10 million payout would only reduce cycle times by about 12 days at this point (from 202 to 190, currently)--not enough to inspire the $40 million in sales that would be required for Kim to break-even on the move, so I think it's now too late for that.

In the end, if YMMSS does not die in a scandalous bust and instead is allowed to die into the mists of time, cycle times will eventually increase day for day with the calendar, and soon it won't be worth a member's time to read the ads--even if he has $100,000 invested. After all members have defaulted on their ad reading agreement, Kim may be legally free and clear to keep any residual cash, and he can retire to Belize or Vincennes or whatever.

I suppose I would be remiss if I didn't mention the "outside income sources" that YMMSSers imagine will indefinitely prop up their Ponzi scheme. I know that the subject has been done nearly to death on these forums, but I must say that YMMSSers' belief that outside revenue will save them is even more preposterous than my fifty-million year projection. Has anything yet developed from the long-touted retail advertising program. If there has, I haven't seen any evidence of it. The only selling point I've even seen for the program is that YMMSSers are "highly qualified" as Internet buyers--presumably because each and every one of them has managed to purchase EPCs online. Because Kim provides no demographic information on the membership, aside from the members who I personally know, most of my knowledge of them has been from reading some in the YMForums. As a 35 year business veteran, myself, I'm not confident in their abilities to attract any quality advertisers.

What other outside income is there? The Belize resort is six huts and eight rooms in the lodge--not possibly a significant revenue generator. And if it's true, what I read somewhere (can't track it down at the moment), that the resort is to be opened only to YMMSS members, what kind of "outside" revenue is that?

My favorite exhibit, however, is the brand new YMAuction site. Now here's an apparently real and publicly visible business, and merely the way it was launched seems to be grand evidence that Kim knows very little about running a real business. Sorry.

Perhaps the most powerful source of outside income for YMMSS is something that I haven't yet seen discussed here at Matrix Watch, but I'm something of a newbie, and perhaps I missed it. It's Ponzi schemes! I'm not sure how widely spread this plan is within "official" YMMSS, but from the "family" discussions that I mentioned above, it's a big part of their newest master plan. Before YMMSS, many of the newer members had never even heard of a Ponzi scheme, but they've sure heard of them now! The "family's" plan is to buy big into one particular and relatively young Ponzi. Of the hundreds of Ponzis out there, I won't hazard guesses as to how they picked this particular one, but I will make an educated guess that they didn't think of it on their own! I also won't say which Ponzi it is because I don't care to promote any of them, but it's one that is currently doubling in 34 days. Now that the "family" knows what Ponzis even are, they also know that they can't last, So the plan is to get in and get out--fast. The relevance of this to YMMSS is that they also believe that YMMSS is NOT a Ponzi, it's permanent. So their working plan for the past six weeks has been to roll ALL of their payout from this quick doubler into YMMSS EPCs! If the young Ponzi doesn't crash too soon, that, alone, may prop up YMMSS for a few days longer than the number crunchers are currently predicting.

It makes perfect sense, too, when trying to understand what Kim means when he talks of outside "investments" that will double or triple in value in a matter of weeks or months. What kind of "investments" could produce such "profits" except for Ponzis? If this plan runs wider than my "family," it's especially ingenious that Kim wouldn't need to "invest" directly in the targeted Ponzis, but simply let faithful members roll their other-Ponzi profits into his pockets.

As for me, I never have and never will put a dime in a Ponzi, much less the $22.30 minimum to get into YMMSS. So why do I care? This is my answer in advance to the YMMSSers who routinely come into this forum in order to tell critics of YMMSS to mind their own business if they don't have any money "invested" in their "business."

I may not have any of my own money invested in YMMSS, but I believe that I have more heart and soul invested in it than Kim Inman could ever comprehend. Because of YMMSS, there are already serious rifts in my extended family. But more, in the future, I anticipate sharing the burden of lost retirements, broken families and even, perhaps, quiet suicides as the futures and egos of loved ones are destroyed by their lost cash, credit and faith in YMMSS, themselves and each other.

In the meantime, the sputtering on about it has distracted me from meaningful and productive tasks in my life during the past couple of months--whether it's been my wife asking me to take a call from some relative or other who wants to know why we haven't been "more on the ball" in order to "not get left behind," or I've taken the time to write a post like this one.

Spending the time and thought to diplomatically answer such calls or write such messages are my choice, I know. When I get requests to offer explanations for my opinion of YMMSS, I do have the alternative choice of telling my wife, relatives, friends and others to get lost and not bother me. But even the most sincere YMMSSers don't have a sole claim on the market of caring about other people and wanting to help them. Perhaps the biggest difference between them and me, however, is that I don't have any EPCs to try and cycle by recruiting new members.

When I see so many innocents--many of whom I personally know--being swindled, I feel an obligation to speak out, and I thank Matrix Watch for providing a platform from which to do it.

Sincerely,
Salsa

[papabear]

Eloquently and ever so accurately stated, Salsa. And how infinitely tragic it is that this swindler has lured so many hapless, innocent people into his web of theft and deceit, under the false pretense of creating a "business" that would not allow people to fail the way they did in his alleged earlier network marketing days. Whatever lives he may have damaged or destroyed in the past will pale in comparison to the havoc he has wreaked on the victims of YMMSS.

[Arzel]

Eloquently and ever so accurately stated, Salsa. And how infinitely tragic it is that this swindler has lured so many hapless, innocent people into his web of theft and deceit, under the false pretense of creating a "business" that would not allow people to fail the way they did in his alleged earlier network marketing days. Whatever lives he may have damaged or destroyed in the past will pale in comparison to the havoc he has wreaked on the victims of YMMSS.

This is precisly why I am a member of this group.

Very well stated Salsa. I certainly hope that when YMMSS finally crashes the fallout within your own family is not too severe. As someone from a large extended family myself, I know how financial issues such as these can put great strain between family members.

[Gringo]

Excellent post Salsa. I'd like to see the members press Kim more on revealing the nature of these outside investments with the impossible returns he's promissing.

[pawnhead]

Somebody did pose a difficult question to Kim. I urge you to download the conference call from Thursday 5-5-05 (second call). The programme goes for 1hr 18min, but listen to the part from 31min 30sec to 42min 40sec. One of the members poses some difficult questions and Kim's responses are laughable. He's realy caught off guard as he fumbles and bumbles his way through, there's extensive periods of silence, and he responds with 'I don't understand the question', or 'I cant devote the resources to find out'. His responses and his manner is laughable.

edit: I just read your post, and it brought a tear to my eye, well put Salsa.

[surfer]

Thanks for the sincere post Salsa.

I hope everything works out okay in your
family.

Pawnhead, Arzel did a little transcribing (http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2693) of
the conference call you were referencing.

[drankoolaid]

This thread Shows insight and previous effort of others
to help avert for newbies the pain of being -- scammed.

[new comments / impressions this thread ]

Salsa -- went back and re-read your post.

Bar none it is the best piece written here in my opinion --

I will be reading it again -- and refer to it often.

I wish your family the best possible speed and hope
for getting free of the YMMSS / STA mess --

God Bless All -- Thanks
Michael

[wonderwoman]

salsa==great , and sincere, and truthful post--I reread again also, and I
agree, totally==I would rather eat dog or cat poop, than get anyone into
the YM "mess"--Agreed, there will be a lot of hard feelings, when everyone
discovers, that they have been taken, and one of your sentences, about
all of us "being left behind" ==reminds me--is Kim and staff, going to "rapture"
us out of poverty?--That is so scarey--I have those tapes on the "rapture"
and KIM, and Co. are not the "star" of the what some Christians hope for.
Michael, and all who have posted--BIG THANK YOU !!!!

[AvidA]

And wonderwoman, he wrote that a year ago. Look how accurate he was even back then. :applause:

YM fans...pay attention!!!!

[wonderwoman]

Avida, everything, that has been posted in here, has come to "pass"--I
am so grateful, and thankful, for all of you in here, I could just "shout", but
of course no one could hear, but, I can type my "shout"--that I really do
appreciate all of the hard work, and sacrifices, made by so many, to make
this a "reality" for those who are not to stubborn to believe--My favorite
saying in hard times, was "this too shall pass"--and I sure hope it for future
and present members of YM/STA--I just hope no one is deeply affected, and
can begin again, but that is to be a future hope.

[AvidA]

That's okay "mama" I will shout for you. ;) http://www.newjerusalemministriesboards.com/images/smilies/woo.gif

I can't believe I have been a member here almost a year. Started reading in February '05, praying MW was wrong. lol :eek:

[wonderwoman]

Avida, I do claim to be your "nuther mother"--I am very proud of you !!!!

[AvidA]

:) And I of you.