I Support The Matrix Community!

[Agent|Star]

Well I just want to say that I am a supporter of the matrix community. I have nothing against those who oppose it.

However, what I don't agree with is the methods that have been used to stop matrix sites. Started with eBay, a lot of the auctions sold on eBay according to the terms did work! Of course, eBay changed that with a few edits hehe and yes they have the right to that. Then the Watch Dog crew decides, lets start freezing some merchant accounts. That wasn't cool AT ALL! I think freezing merchant accounts without any real reason is just sleezy. I remember reading a post where it said "hey check out matrix-news.com, you can find out the merchants easily" What was that about just randomly picking sites to close down? Lets get a bit more professional then that Watch Doggies.

I also want to state that although I am a supporter, I do realize there are a lot of scam sites out there. These sites have given matrix a bad reputation. These sites I would love to see get taking down (no domain name, no real contact info, owned by children, hit and runs, so on...)

I'd just like to see the watch dogs PIN-POINT the bad sites by doing some REAL research! Not random dog fights! If this was what Watch Doggies were doing their efforts put in would be respected by both the supporters and the opposers of Matrix.

Thanks :cool: ................

[Arzel]

I think you are looking at the merchant issue from the wrong point of view. The same with ebay.

What is the real cause and effect relationship between the things that were and the things that are now.

1. Initially a few matrix sites existed advertising on ebay, prior to ebay's current rules.

2. Additional sites start up realizing a potential "Get Rich" scheme.

3. Additional sites flood ebay with more auctions for information on matrix sites.

4. Thousands of people start buying into matrices using paypal or other various merchants.

5. Due to the saturated market of matrix sites, and the appearance of many ripoff sites several sites begin to stall, stop, or dissapear altogether.

6. Individuals on ebay see their expected times of cycling come and go and start to complain.

7a. Complaints from customers and people actually selling the real item and, not a list, reach a crital mass at which point ebay changes it rules regarding auctions.

7b. Complaints from customers to paypal and other merchants begin to result in refunds or outright chargebacks from credit card companies.

8. Becuase of initial chargebacks and refunds, matrix sites which were stopped or moving slowly start to move backwards or close shop.

9. Closure of sites initiates additional chargebacks resulting in paypal freezing the monies of those sites.

10. Matrixwatch comes into existance.

11. Lawsuit makes charges against merchants in addition to EzExpo.

12. Merchant realize that not only are matrix sites likely to have refunds or chargeback, but also a potential legal liability start to freeze all matrix site acounts (when they are found to be such)

13a. People wishing to get refunds learn that reporting the site as a matrix site is an easy way to get their money back.

13b. A unknown person (not from this group) starts to report matrix sites to merchants increasing the freezing of funds. (you can believe this or not, but Watchdog said that he did not know who this person was.)

13c. There may have been some people from this forum to report individual sites.

There may be some key points that I missed. But it is quite clear, after my 8 months of observing the matrix world, that the flood of auctions on ebay casued the backlash from other sellers and customers to change the rules regarding how auctions work way before this site was started. This caused matrix sites to stall, and resulted in the eventual freezing of acounts.

People here may have helped push things along, but the course was set long before this site began. Peterdragin, and others, had been reporting these auctions long before this site was even started.

[peterdragin]

Well BigStarr

I know you are a supporter because you run a site, and do web work for many Matrix sites. But I also suspect you are on a few lists and are close to cycling, All the site owners hang out on a few forums so you get info on new matrixes starting and get in early and hope to cycle off the rest of the fools who do not know about the lists and end up being way down and will never have a chance to cycle.

The auctions on Ebay have almost been stopped, and MOST of these were so full of B.S. on how long it takes to get your gift. This is one of the reasons I took it upon myself with a few others to put a stop to them. Like today normaly is a big day to see new auctions on Ebay, but I only had 31 auctions total to report. This is in 6 different searchs I do to find them. 4 months ago there would be 150 to 200 auctions to report.

As far as the Scam sites out there in my view they are ALL scam sites. They will ALL fail sooner or later, when the lists get to big to generate any new buyers people get upset and complain to what ever C.C. Processor they paid for the spot and the site gets it's money frozen, this is not all the fault of the people here.

If you think autocycle will work you are sadly mistaken, the profit is not good enough to support autocycling, it is just a stop gap measure to prolong the sites failure, and they will fail.

It's just a matter of time before the F.T.C. and the Attorney Genrals Office get involved and the Matrix world will be just a memory, and a lot of people will be in jail.

I bet very few ever though of the I.R.S. either they like to get their money from taxes, and they get like bloodhounds when some one sets them on the right trail. I bet very few site owners know that there is a tax to be paid on gifts, did the site owners ever send out 1099 forms to people who have recived gifts, It's a law you know.

Right Arzel I just checked my folder on Ebay auctions canceled and the first one was Jan 26 2003 and on that day I reported 146 auctions.

[peterdragin]

Also the total sellers kicked of Ebay just reached 300, got number 300 today.

Auctions canceled is 20, 840 as of today. Will be 21,000 by the end of the week..

The first seller I ever got kicked of is Still kicked off !! ( got him for Matrix auctions and Shill bidding )

Only about 25 or 30 have gotten back on and they are being good little sellers now. I check the NARUed list every once in awhile just to see who got back on.

Before you tell me that you don't have to pay taxes on gifts up to 11,000 dollars, this applys to a person to person gift NOT a small business.

Here is the link to the I.R.S. on gifts for the small business and self employed

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=108139,00.html

Here it is.

Gift Tax Questions

Q: What is the Gift Tax?

The gift tax is a tax on the transfer of property by one individual to another while receiving nothing or less than full value in return. The tax applies whether the donor intends the transfer to be a gift or not.

The gift tax applies to the transfer by gift of any property. You make a gift if you give property (including money), or the use of or income from property, without expecting to receive something of at least equal value in return. If you sell something at less than its full value or if you make an interest-free or reduced interest loan, you may be making a gift.

Q: Who pays the gift tax?

The donor is generally responsible for paying the gift tax. Under special arrangements the donee may agree to pay the tax instead. Please visit with your tax professional if you are considering this type of arrangement.

Did you give any gifts away in 2002 ? Bigstarr if you did, did you pay taxes like you should have ?

[Agent|Star]

Azel.. exactly bad sites... made bad name.

Peter, you are wrong.. I do not run a matrix site and I did web work for 3 matrix sites (not many). I didn't get any special treatment for that work. I have also turned down matrix work with individuals that aren't very professional or I suspect being underage. Don't get me wrong I do simple web deisgn and banner making outside of matrix, if our interested :cool: .

As far as taxes... I have all my paper work it is not time to file for me. Thanks for asking thou.

Anyhow back to my original post:
"I'd just like to see the watch dogs PIN-POINT the bad sites by doing some REAL research! Not random dog fights! If this was what Watch Doggies were doing their efforts put in would be respected by both the supporters and the opposers of Matrix."

How about it... It is something I would help make happen.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by peterdragin
Before you tell me that you don't have to pay taxes on gifts up to 11,000 dollars, this applys to a person to person gift NOT a small business.

Here is the link to the I.R.S. on gifts for the small business and self employed

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=108139,00.html



I was reading through the link you posted and this is what I ddint understand and which you didnt copy:

Q: What can be excluded from gifts?

The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.

1. Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.

Q: How many annual exclusions are available?

The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002 or 2003, the annual exclusion applies to each gift.

so wouldnt matrix sites be covered under the annual exclusion since it applies to each donee? This is under the link you provided for small businesses and it says nothing about the annual exclusion having to be personal, it just says that small businesses may have to pay the gift tax and I went a step further and did a search on the irs site for annual exclusion, gift tax and this is what it says(http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/page/0,,id=12906,00.html), this came up under the tax gift topic, it says nothing about having to be personal or business:

Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.

Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.

Annual exclusion. A separate annual exclusion applies to each person to whom you make a gift. For 2002, the annual exclusion is $11,000. Therefore, you generally can give up to $11,000 each to any number of people in 2002 and none of the gifts will be taxable.

Inflation adjustment. After 2002, the $11,000 annual exclusion may be increased due to a cost-of-living adjustment.


So Im confused, why wouldnt matrix site oweners be covered under this?

[peterdragin]

That rule applys to a person giving a gift to another person.
Like giving your kid money or a car or something.

It isn't the rules for small business's and self employed.

[Arzel]

All prize winnings are taxable. This has been covered in depth over the past year.

This is from the IRS question page.

Do I have to pay tax to the IRS on a prize or award?
If you win a prize or award in a lucky number drawing, television or radio quiz program, beauty contest, or other event, you must include its fair market value in your taxable income and report it on your IRS tax return. For example, if you win a $50 prize or award in a photography contest, you must report this taxable income on Line 21 of IRS tax form 1040.


The matrix gift falls under the rules regarding winning of a prize. Look at it this way. The matrix company is going to have to be accountable for all of the money that they take in. If they do not record these prizes correctly they will be responsible of the taxes on the company earnings. Also, the so called "Gifting Clubs" which have tried to use the gift exclusion in their pryamid schemes fall in the same category.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by peterdragin
Also the total sellers kicked of Ebay just reached 300, got number 300 today.

Auctions canceled is 20, 840 as of today. Will be 21,000 by the end of the week..

The first seller I ever got kicked of is Still kicked off !! ( got him for Matrix auctions and Shill bidding )

Only about 25 or 30 have gotten back on and they are being good little sellers now. I check the NARUed list every once in awhile just to see who got back on.


And I suppose Peterdragin you are the reason why a few of my auctions that followed ebay rules and HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MATRIX SITES, got cancelled. The last time I checked it was not a violation to sell just ebooks on ebay nor was it a violation to sell wholesale information either. In fact there is a couple people on ebay that sell wholesale information and they have been doing it for awhile and it is basically there main business. Also there are many people who sell ebooks and there is nothing in ebay policies that says you can not sell ebooks.

In fact there reason why they cancelled my auctions was because I can not sell things that will lead to outside sales. Which is bogus since I was not. The ebooks were just that that someone else could sell on ebay, and the wholesale lists were simply that for which the customer could sell the item from the wholesale list on ebay.

I made sure that none of my auctions violated ebay auctions but yet mattered not because the auctions still got cancelled. And I suppose that is fair.....hmm.....

[peterdragin]

If they were listed in the everything else category they were alright, but if you had them listed in any other category or dual listed ( listed in both everything else and say computers / electronics ) then they got canceled for being in the wrong categories.
Some times they just move them, but I haven't seen that happen in a long time. Now they just go ahead and cancel the auction and make you relist it.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by peterdragin
If they were listed in the everything else category they were alright, but if you had them listed in any other category or dual listed ( listed in both everything else and say computers / electronics ) then they got canceled for being in the wrong categories.
Some times they just move them, but I haven't seen that happen in a long time. Now they just go ahead and cancel the auction and make you relist it.


Actually they moved 1 of them one day and then cancelled them 2 days later....hmm....ver suspicious.

Further when they cancelled them they did not state it was because they were in the wrong category, since they clearly were not. But gave another reason that was not it either......

Like I have always said eBay will cancel your auction without even reviewing it when they get a report for people such as you Peterdragin. In fact I am confident if you wanted to you could get every auction on ebay cancelled if you sent in a report on them.

Ebay never looks at the report that they get from members, they just trust that there members are honest and are not giving them eroneous information. I have on several occasions had my auctions cancelled for different things and they were in strict compliance with there rules. In fact one time I even sent them the auction for review before I listed it and they said it was all right. Only for them to cancel it 4 days later. When I emailed them complaing, I got nothing in response. They will never admit when they are wrong period.

Great company, eBay, you support...........

[peterdragin]

You must understand that they did have a bunch of kids doing this, now they have trained people in different categories.

Groups of people are responsible for looking at certian types of complaints, like just looking at auctions that circumvent fees.

I have had a few that were reported that ebay did nothing about but were clearly in violation of the rules. From what I understand that they read every auction that is reported because alot of rival sellers report each others auctions just to get rid of the competition. You read about this alot on the ebay forums. I asked this in one of the Ebay forums and one of the pinks told me they do indeed read every auction reported.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by peterdragin
You must understand that they did have a bunch of kids doing this, now they have trained people in different categories.

Groups of people are responsible for looking at certian types of complaints, like just looking at auctions that circumvent fees.

I have had a few that were reported that ebay did nothing about but were clearly in violation of the rules. From what I understand that they read every auction that is reported because alot of rival sellers report each others auctions just to get rid of the competition. You read about this alot on the ebay forums. I asked this in one of the Ebay forums and one of the pinks told me they do indeed read every auction reported.

Well, they want you to believe they do, but my experience with them leads me to believe that they don't read every auction that has a complaint. I have on several occasions had auctions cancelled that were not in violation, some of which were in direct competition to someone else selling the item, but I had a cheaper price and it got cancelled. In fact when I pointed it out to ebay, they only responded that they were sorry about the cancellation and that it stands as it is. Not giving any explanation as to why when I pointed out that there original reasoning was incorrect. Basically ebay is judge, jury, and executioner. If you disagree with any error they make, they will make it there mission to cancel your auctions if a report is files on you.

Of course I can not convince anyone of this if they chose not to believe it. Such is life I suppose. I have also just to mention sold tangible items that were cancelled as well, with the incorrect reason as to why it was cancelled.

Also, let me clarify something I have had my auctions cancelled numerous times for the "Can't sell info that leads to sales outside of ebay" reason. And my ID has never been revoked. Why is that you wonder? Cause they have no solid proof of the violation so they do not revoke my ID. So it stands to reason, that they are trying to get me to leave eBay voluntarily. For they hate someone who points out to them when they are wrong.

Also, awhile back just for kicks, I opened another ebay account and listed some of my auctions that were not in violation that had gotten cancelled and low and behold they never were cancelled on my new account no matter how many times I listed them. Hmm.....suspicious indeed.....

[MaxPower]

BigStarr... I have a couple questions for you:

First off... what is your big problem with kids running a matrix site? Just because they are kids does not mean that the site would be bad... And lets face it... the majority of matrix sites out there are indeed ran by people who know they will fail and they just want to make a quick dollar. I think child or adult, no matter who runs it... it will eventually fail.

Secondly... Where is one of these "good matrix sites" that you speak of? There are NO good sites. They will all eventually fail. Name one of these sites that you say is good right now... and maybe in a few months we will see if you have the same opinion about that site. Because basically... in a 50 person matrix... for every 1 winner there will be 50 losers... give or take a few if this myth of "auto-cycling" actually took place. So just name one site... would you be daring enough to put your name behind it and say that it will remain a "good site.":confused:

[uwantme]

Originally posted by peterdragin
That rule applys to a person giving a gift to another person.
Like giving your kid money or a car or something.

It isn't the rules for small business's and self employed.

Thats not what the irs site said. It says that small businesses/self employed must pay the gift tax. The gift tax states what I stated above. It doesnt matter if its a business or person to person thats why even under the link you gave for small businesses it states that gifts that are given under the annual exclusion are not taxable..

Can you specifically show me on the irs site where it defines the annual exclusion for small businesses and for personal and what the difference is and how much each one is alloted for the year per person... Because I couldnt find it anywhere.. Just the info I copied above.

Im not argueing to be crappy, I just couldnt find anything to state other than what I said and I really want to learn what is correct. That way we all have the actual facts.. A better thing to do is maybe email H&R block or someplace like that and ask them.. What do you think?

[uwantme]

Originally posted by Arzel
All prize winnings are taxable. This has been covered in depth over the past year.

This is from the IRS question page.



The matrix gift falls under the rules regarding winning of a prize. Look at it this way. The matrix company is going to have to be accountable for all of the money that they take in. If they do not record these prizes correctly they will be responsible of the taxes on the company earnings. Also, the so called "Gifting Clubs" which have tried to use the gift exclusion in their pryamid schemes fall in the same category.

This isnt what I was talking about.Your irs quote only deals with the taxes the people that recieve the gift have to pay not the companies giving the gift.. You are saying that the person recieveing the gift has to pay taxes on it, which I believe is correct. However we were discussing whether or not the site owners had to pay taxes on the gifts they gave away..

Then your next paragraph makes no sense.. Of course matrix companies have to record all of their income but if they are giving away prizes then that is not money they are taking in, if anything it is money they are losing, a business expense, and yes the free gifts need to be recorded too but not as part of their income.. They will be taxed on the free gifts under the free gift tax, the only thing to determine is whether or not it falls under the businesses annual exclusion.

[Arzel]

The way you posed your question it appeared you were talking about the responsibilities of the winner. The matrix site owner should not have to pay taxes on the prizes, but not because of the gift exclusion rule.

The prizes are a business expense, and would be recorded in their accounting books as a loss.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by Arzel
The way you posed your question it appeared you were talking about the responsibilities of the winner. The matrix site owner should not have to pay taxes on the prizes, but not because of the gift exclusion rule.

The prizes are a business expense, and would be recorded in their accounting books as a loss.

Yep Matrix site owners do not pay the gift tax. The customer does....

[peterdragin]

Yes but the matrix sites as business's have to send out 1099 forms.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by peterdragin
Yes but the matrix sites as business's have to send out 1099 forms.

Yes they do.....and so that your happy PeterDragin, I have been indeffinately suspended from ebay. And it was for no reason at all......

[uwantme]

Originally posted by peterdragin
Yes but the matrix sites as business's have to send out 1099 forms.

Once again im just asking so I can learn but why is it the businesses responsibility to send out this form? I have won prizes in my lifetime from contests, raffles, bingo, lotterey, radio stations and no one ever sent me any forms at all....

[peterdragin]

What seller name were you using ?? I never reported the tcb1969a id . I very rarely even looked at it.

If you were using another ID and it was reported, they will cancel all usernames on your account.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by tcb1969a
Yes they do.....and so that your happy PeterDragin, I have been indeffinately suspended from ebay. And it was for no reason at all......

Why exactly did ebay say you were suspended? You can tell me in a PM if you want, Im just curious but if you dont want to discuss it its okay.

[peterdragin]

Originally posted by uwantme
Once again im just asking so I can learn but why is it the businesses responsibility to send out this form? I have won prizes in my lifetime from contests, raffles, bingo, lotterey, radio stations and no one ever sent me any forms at all....

Well my sister won 5,000 bucks in the Big game lottery and she had the option of having the taxes taken out when she was paid, or she could wait and get a 1099 from the State. On a lotterys that are run by different states they take out taxes on prizes of $1,000 and over.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by peterdragin
What seller name were you using ?? I never reported the tcb1969a id . I very rarely even looked at it.

If you were using another ID and it was reported, they will cancel all usernames on your account.


Well, I used another ID awhile back and was listing some things that were interpreted by ebay as having sales outside of ebay. Which seems to be there infamous line. In anycase, they never even warned me about the violation for which they said they sent emails but I never received them. So they suspended that other account for 30 days.

Then recently they emailed me letting me know that they would reinstate my suspended ID if I agree that I read the Terms and Conditions. So I sent them the email last week that I agree to the terms.

So Sunday I check my suspended account to see if they lifted the restriction and they had not. So this morning I get home from work, and ebay suspended my current account because I accessed my old suspended account. In the same message they tell me that I am of course unsuspended from the one that was suspended but I cant use it since I just got suspended on my ID I have had for a couple years now. The one that has over 200 feedback.

Needless to say, I wrote them back explaining that I was just checking to see if it was unsuspended yet since they sent me that email last week saying that they were going to lift the restriction. But no reply.

Needless to say I have to wait another 30 days in order to use there service. Well they can keep there service and shove it. I abided by there rules, there was no need in going against there rules since you all are out there watching the ebay scene. But yet I got suspended. And before I got suspended they cancelled auctions of mine that were following all of there guidelines. And never responded to my emails when I proved to them those emails were ok. The only response they give me is suspension. They don't like people questioning there decisions.....

I could go on and on about ebay, but why bother......

[hurley9192]

I got my auction cancelled and all I was doing was telling people that the site was a fraud.

Ebay was targeting all these auctions, not just the matrix ones.

[hurley9192]

I guess since I'm the CPA in the forum, I should answer your tax questions. The matrix site will have income for all cash received. They will be able to deduct all monies spent on purchasing the prizes that were paid out. However, it seems like they usually collect about double what they pay out in wholesale cost, so there should still be taxable income. However, a smart matrix owner would work under some type of corporation like an LLC or S Corp to give them some freedom from personal liability and would also be able to deduct all expected and reasonable expenses relating to their site, so they would only be taxed on the net income that would flow through to their personal return, not total income.

The site wouldn't have to pay gift tax for the prize's sent out. They would be required to send a 1099 to all recipients who received more than $600 worth of prizes in a calender year.

[uwantme]

Hey thanks alot hurley. I appreciate the info and clarity it brought..