YMMSS Conference Calls

[Arzel]

The following is a word for word transcribe of a YMMSS public conference call. I am a firm believer that YMMSS is nothing more than a very ingenious Ponzi scheme masquerading as an advertising business. It is my opinion that YMMSS is nearing the end of the Ponzi life cycle and hope that my comments will be useful.

When reading these notes remember that YMMSS claims to be an advertising company, you must ask yourself what it really sounds like.

Dialogue from the May 5th, 2005 conference call (late call).

Starting approximately minute 22.



Jim or Berry “Alright do you want to touch on cycle times Kim? Like we talked about earlier? Now we got a lot of folks that are trying to project an making some claims”


Kim Inman – Owner of YMMSS



Kim interrupts “Oh….ha, yeah I’d be glad to….uh” Slight pause by Kim “It’s funny, um, people are making projections on cycle times, I had one person ask me they projected it’d take 20 some weeks to get here or get there…and I find that amazing..um....you know we run, we have the numbers…you know but…there is no way that you can tell anything unless you run….what all of the income sources are…so you know their best guess is not even close….you know as far as that goes.”



Cycle times were 199 days as of this writing and increasing at a rate of about 9 days for every 10 days. Several people have predicted that cycle times will continue to rise at a substantial rate until the 11.18.2004 payment date is reached. With 30 days to currently pay before the 11.18.2004 date, this appears to be on track for 200+ days before this happens which is approximately the 20 weeks mentioned above.



“Now I’ll tell ya…ya know you’re are out in the forums, you’re out in the chartrooms, you’re in this or that or the other. And…there’s people, believe it or not, that join those for one reason….and that is one reason is is to discourage you so they can attract to you to their opportunity or business. You know we’ve been paying out now for close to three years and we’re gonna to continue to pay out…and ahh…you know the cycle times are gonna get better and after we get past that magic 18th date..um...of when people made purchases and we took the website down cycle times will reduce, and they’ll reduce dramatically….I believe.”



Just to clarify that I in no way wish to get people into some other program. I believe that these programs are almost universally based off some type of pyramid or Ponzi type scheme.



“And um, you know the retail site, once we get that our retail person in place then..ah..all that money will be reducing the commissions payable account. Ahh, all the various income sources that we have coming in, ya know, are just going to keep multiply and stuff, so you know you wanna hav..I..I’ve known of cases where people have taken their YMMSS income, that they generated and luckily they left the 320 in there and lost everything by going to another program..and doing things.”

“We’ve had people…um…with a our program join other programs and for some reason, using the same username and password..in every program that they joined, well one gets compromised..guess what, they’re all compromised, so um..we’ve we’ve been working with a..a couple people in which this has happened…and ah..ya know…..we got their their money back..for them, and this other company, ya know, just screams and yells at them whenever they call, and, so, ya know, nobody…can make estimates of whats going out there, ya know you need to ask yourself…where are these people coming from? Ya know, what are they doing?”

“Ah, we have people, ya know that’s ahh..gets in on the ah chat room, and ah ya know posts other things up there, ya know, as do this or do those…those should be banned…ya know, (?) putting business opportunities in the chat room is not acceptable…and so..ah..what you wanna do is…you look at this, ask where there coming from, does this make sense….and ah..because you’ve got…we’ve proven ourselves, ya know, you can’t stay in business three years and um paid out the amount of money we’ve paid…um…if your not..a..a..legitimate business. And so, ya know we’re a breaking new ground here. And ah..so we encourage you to stay with us. We encourage you to ah.. look to a prosperous future with YMMSS.”


If find it slightly ironic that an advertising business would be so anti-alternate business opportunities. I also find it ironic that YMMSS’ claim to being a legitimate business is that they have paid out X amount of dollars.

Time approximately 26:30.

Now ask yourself, does this sound like an advertising business or an investment opportunity.

[Arzel]

The conference calls also include questions from members and prospective members. I must give credit to Kim for answering questions, but this is just another example of YMMSS not really being an advertising business, but an investment opportunity. This call is important because you can see that members are really concerned about cycle times and what is being done to reduce them.

Comments are my personal opinion.

Question at 31:45 minutes.

Caller from Vancouver.

Caller, “Hi, so I have a couple of comments and I have ah..a couple of questions.” Kim, “Ok.” Caller, “Um..I was.. um.. you mentioned that..Kim..that the $300,000..um..coming per month…we were told about an investment that was gonna come in at $300,000 the middle of May, and um..would double every three weeks…so.that’s not happening anymore?”


Kim has made various claims of upcoming outside investment streams, most of these income streams were mentioned to double every few weeks. Kim also mentions a $300,000 investment stream coming mid-may earlier in the call.


Kim, “No, I’m just saying that I’ve got so many that’s coming on…that I don’t know which is which [long pause] is what I am saying.” Caller interrupts “Is there a way Kim...” Caller slight pause, “Is there a way, Kim,..that we could have somebody report to the membership of what they are, cause we, you know this is all our business and ah.. [Kim “uhah”] we would really like to know whats…and it would encourage all of us if we knew what was coming down the pipe…[Kim “yeah”]..If they were signed, sealed, and delivered.”


In the past Kim has simply mentioned income streams coming in the future, but most of the references have been pretty vague.


Kim, “Yeah.” Caller, “Is..is it possible for someone to report this? Or..” Kim, “Yeah, Is it..It sure is, and ah [pause] I can get him on ah..some conference calls and stuff like that….Understand that..ah..what we do..how..the procedure for how this works is we set up a bank account, a trust account. And then we place millions of dollars with in that..that trust. Ok?…and then they go to market with that, and generate those..those funds..ah..sometimes ah..they get in whenever they say they are and then other times they don’t. ah..so..we have some that has come to perition [word?] and then we’ve had some [?] it didn’t go yet. So, ya know, it’s just like anything else, we’re at their mercy…on that..and so..ah..ya know.”

Caller, “cause that’s what really..that’s whats really gonna drop the cycle times is those investments.” Kim interrupts, “Oh absolu…oh well that’s not gonna to drop the cycle times near as much as the retail.” Caller, “Yeah, and that’s..and that’s my second question, is that it seems I..there’s nobody hired yet, I was just wondering why we haven’t hired someone yet, because then as soon as he gets hired and the servers come up you have to play catch up, I just wondered if there’s maybe you have a reason why he hasn’t been hired yet.”


This is a little confusing as Kim has always mentioned the outside investments, mainly those of mainstream advertisers paying huge amounts of money to advertise to their safe list as the primary way to control the cycle times in the future. This sounds like a little bit of backtrack on the effect of those outside revenues, and instead focusing on the retail site.

The retail site is nothing more than an online mall, and I don’t see how they will be able to draw enough outside sales to generate enough commissions off the retail site to lower cycle times even slightly. They have also been looking for someone to run the site for a few weeks, seems to me they should have been looking quite a while ago.


Kim interrupts, “We haven’t found the right person.” [Long Pause] Caller, “And now..now what we have to do is play catch up once the servers are up, now we have to go and find all these people and all these companies..” Kim interrupts, “I..I don’t understand what you are saying.” [Slight Pause] Caller, “I’m just saying that if the person isn’t hired yet, and he gets hired like in say two weeks. Instead of having all those people lined up with these companies to ah..to um..”.

Kim interrupts, “You’re thinking that we’re gonna bring somebody in off the street…,and he’s gonna have to start and establish contacts out there, we’re not going after that type of person. We’re going after the person that’s already got the contacts…out there, who’s already working the field…whos, you know, this is what he does, he’s already earning between $150,000 and, and, and a $500,000 a year.” [Slight Pause]


When looking for someone that is already making that kind of money it is generally a pretty long process. The head of my department was a year long hiring process, and they have only been actively looking for a couple of months, at least from reading their announements.


Caller, “And you can’t find that person yet?” Kim, “I’ve got people working on it.” Caller, “Oh, ok, good.” Kim, “I mean, I’m not doing it, I’ve got people that, you know, we’ve hired, an, and volunteers to do that.” [Slight Pause] Caller, “umhmm, well that’s good, we’re ah..we’re a with [?] we’re waiting for him.” Kim, “Believe you me, I am too [Kim laughs]” Caller, “I know you are, [?] a lot more than any of us. And you did mention $300,000 coming in per month, you know that won’t..right now we do that in two days two, three days.” Kim interrupts, “Sure, and..and that’s why we run multiples of those. You know our goal is.” Caller interrupts, “That’s why we’d like to have a report, because $300,000 per month wouldn’t even make a scratch, you know…but if there’s multiples though it would, and it would sure be nice to get a report on that...”

Kim Interrupts, “And you know the other thing is is the one we’ve got down the road, you know the long term one thats gonna throw like $16 million a week at this..15, 16 something like that, I can’t remember what the numbers are I ah…[Kim a little flustered] I deal with so many numbers..it’s just unbelievable.” Caller interrupts, “Is that sign, sealed, and delivered, that one, or is that kind of in a trust fund hoping that to get that..[?]” Kim interrupts “No, its already implemented and it’s..if everything works as they say it will, and it has so far, uh [Caller “Cool, that very good”] ..a, ya know, that ones in the bank.” Caller, “Oh good, awesome.”


Kim certainly seems to not know much about the investments numbers, I can understand why the caller would like a report as to what is really set up.


Caller, “My last question for you, and I think I asked this of you once before, and you were kind of hurried I think you were in Belize at the time, um and maybe you could get somebody to report back, because you might not know the answer, but um, on October 18th there was a $1.9 million a purchase of EPC’s and that’s what we have been trying to get through the last two, two or three weeks and we just wondered why if a hunderd, $1.9 million went into the commissions payable why it..the cycle times didn’t drop, they haven’t dropped since June we’re wondering why that didn’t drop cycles times at least a day, they just kept going up after that.”


What the caller is getting at is that on 10.18.2004 cycle times were 90 days. He is trying to ask why cycle times didn’t decrease on the 19th when a large purchase was made on the 18th. His numbers are a little off, but theoretically something close to $800,000 should have been put into the CPA on the 18th, and on the 19th cycle times should have dropped to 89 or 88 days. He obviously has Kim a little confused


Kim, “Ok, ok….hold on, I think we’ve got our dates and something messed up. Say this again.” Caller, “Ok, October 18th we just went through a 1.9 million that we spent two or three weeks paying that off we, we didn’t gain one day in the cycle times cause we were paying of that big payment on October 18th. And, we were wondering why if that money went in why the cycle times didn’t drop.”

Kim, “Ah, Ok, on October [Pause] actually isn’t is November.er..no, ok.wait I know what you are talking about, it’s the one we just got through?” Caller, “That’s right, exactly.” Kim, “Ok, yeah…ok [Pause] We paid out that over a period of what five, seven days, I don’t know.” Caller interrupts, “No it was about two and a half weeks.” [Long Pause] Kim, “Really? You’re saying that one day didn’t drop off in two and a half weeks?”


Kim seems surprised that it took so long to pay the 10.18.2004 date. It took from 4.15.2005 through 5.2.2005 to pay 10.18.2004, approximately 17 days, as there is a little overlap in their payment system. This is pretty common knowledge, so I am surprised that Kim would be so unknowing about what days are being paid and how long it is taking.

Unfortunately the caller lets Kim off the hook to discuss that aspect and goes back to his original question.


Caller, “No, no I’m not saying that, I’m saying when that money went in, 1.9 million, back in October 19th.” Kim, “No, no, no, no, 1.9 million didn’t go in.” Caller, “Well that’s what we were told on the October 18th amount.” Kim interrupts, “That’s what we had to pay out, half of that came in….back in, [Caller “Oh, I see”] at that time.” Caller, “I, well I heard, what we are paying that out now. [Kim “Right”] and people paid that in back then, now we have to pay it, right?”

Kim, “We already paid it…right?” Caller, “Well we’re paying it…we just paid it a couple days ago.” Kim interrupts “Over multiple days.” Caller, “Pardon me?” Kim, “Over multiple days we paid that out.” Caller, “Right.” Kim and Caller talking [?] Kim, “Ok, you know however many days ago that was on October 18th or whatever date, if it would have been $100 then we’d pay out $200 now.” [Pause]


Kim is obviously not understanding the callers questions, but to Kim’s credit he is right about the actual amount put into the system, so the caller is a little off track as well.


Caller, “Right.” Kim, “So that 1.9 would be divided by two.” Kim and Caller talking [?] Caller, “You just aren’t understanding my question.” Kim, “Ok.” Caller, “My question, my question is that there was $1.9 million dropped into YMMSS on October 18th, and we’re paying that now, but why in October 19th the cycle days didn’t drop at that time back in October 19th because there was a big chunk of money that was put into YMMSS, and we’re wondering why the cycle times didn’t go down back in October 19th, because that money went into the commissions.”


The callers numbers are still off, but his question is still fair. Why didn’t cycle times go down a little with such a large payment. Cycle times were already at 90 days, and I think Kim and company knew what was coming up ahead and decided to not reduce cycle times. 90 days was still within the 60-90 day range originally guaranteed so there is no real reason to lower it, and the extra income from that day would be useful to keep cycle times lower in the future, but then this is just my personal belief and is not based off fact.


Kim and Caller talking [?] Kim, “And the only thing I can tell you is we use the same formula, as we did then as we do now, and if um…if commissions is greater than..um..the money coming in then the days…don’t…change.” Caller, “I..I..yeah, we..I do understand that, but if..like if we dropped $2 million today, then that means we’re gonna put $2 million we would expect.” Kim interrupts, “we would drop one day.” Caller still talking, “It would drop, because that would pay out quite a few people, and then you’d see it. “

Caller, “In fact on October 18th that’s what happened, but nothing really went forward it just kept going backwards, and so we were just curious to see why that happened, and if you could ask somebody, and maybe they could get back to us, just cause it is somewhat of a mystery to us.” Kim, “Well, I mean it is no mystery to me, I mean because we use the same formulas as we do now. You know, and I’m saying, you know, first of all…ah..you know, we’ve been running this business for three years. [Caller, “Right”] you know, and, ah, we’ve paid everybody that should be paid in the order that they should been paid.”


Caller won’t let up on his question, and Kim is still not quite understanding what the question is, but caller asks a good question as YMMSS is quite the mystery.


Caller, “Right.” Kim “You know.” Caller “Right, right, it’s the best program out there for that.” Kim, “Huh?” Caller, “It’s the best program out there for that.” Kim, “Right! And, ah..I’m not going to waste my resources going back and looking at something that happened nine months ago.”


Kim sounds a little upset, which is odd because the caller wasn’t trying to infer that he is doing anything wrong, he is just confused. The caller sounds a little confused by Kim’s response to the question as he can tell he touched a nerve. At least that is my opinion of the tone and tenor of the call.


Caller, “I didn’t say you would, but.” Kim interrupts, “No, no I said my resources [Caller “hmm”] the people that’s working for me.” Caller, “Right.” Kim, “Ok? [Caller inaudible] Everything that we did is 100% right.” Caller, “Yeah its, ah..I’m, we believe it’s right. [Kim “umhmm”] And we believe, we’d like to understand why it’s right, and you know..” Kim interrupts [Caller inaudible in background] “You know I could pick out another day.” Caller, “You know it’s out business, we like to understand how it works.”

Kim, “Well then..I understand that, but until we get things in place that I can dedicate resources to, to do that kind of investigation I’m not going to move them off what they’re doing right now.” Caller, “Ok, that’s fine. [Kim, “Ok”] I’d just like to file a comment then, if its possible to get the fella that’s taking care of the investments to speak to us one day, and maybe give us a rundown of what’s actually, we have solid out their coming down the pipe, and what’s maybe is probable coming down the pipe it would sure be nice.” Kim interrupts, “Sure I’d be glad to do that.” Caller, “Well that’d be great then Kim, sorry I took so much of your time.” Kim, “No, not at all, thank you.”

Time 43:00


Again you must ask yourself, is this an investment opportunity or and advertising business. This call also shows the nature of the Ponzi element being explained in detail by the owner.

[Dreamer]

While i just had a fit with somebody appearing to have a nit pit problem on another thread, it amazes me that somebody would want to do business with a man who cant even speak in complete sentences without stuttering and using uhms and uhs. In a vido clip of him talking he said how most people cant address crowds like he can or something like that (after all your careful transcribing i should shoot myself for not quoting properly. So, maybe if i'm bored I'll fix it).

It may be just my opinion but the people who typically say uhs and uhms are looking for the next thing to say because they are not confident in what they are saying. For the general population, who cares? Im sure I say it frequently, though I try not to. However, I have never recorded myself.

But why cannot a businessman go a sentence without stuttering over himself? Especially somebody like kim that does these silly conferences once a week. If he was so sure about his business, there should not be one question that would throw him off. Even the facts and figures which are "confidental". What business does not know intimately what his business is doing? Even if the business is so complex with lots of different inputs, a real businessman would either look at each of the different aspects individually to see what is successful and what is failing, and if thats too complicated, he would hire some individuals to keep track of that.

Thats just a side point. I've known some very intelligent people who cannot finish a sentence and talk with lots of uhs and uhms, not because they are ignorant, but because their brain works alot faster than they can speak so they arent able to articulate themselves. However, they can prove themselves to anybody at anytime no problem. kim can prove himselve in about 18 months, since everything is always 18 months away.

Thanks for these postings. I'll have good reading material tonight :)

[surfer]

:eek: It was worse reading it than listening to it.

Thanks for your efforts Arzel. Quite a nightmare
trying to transcribe someone who doesn't speak
fluently.

As Dreamer said, many of us have those annoying
little things when we speak in regular conversations.

However, when you are confident and know
what you're talking about, those little hiccups
don't happen as often.

I knew exactly what the guy was trying to ask
Kim because I've been paying attention to Kim's
business. Apparently, he's not as focused.

People have repeatedly asked the question about
why cycle times didn't drop in the month or two
before the new website launch when all of these
"record" purchase days were taking place.

They never get a solid answer.

They've been told that it was because manual
processing was taking so long that after they
processed it took an extra while to actually
send notice of cycling.

They've been told that maybe it was because
they were processing previous high purchase days
so that much money was needed to cycle just
one day.

The second answer is the more appropriate answer
of course. YMMSS "paid" stats and real revenue
actually need to double every cycle just to keep up
and maintain cycle times.

From July 1, 2004 to August 20, 2004 there was a
little over $9 million showing as "paid" commissions.

Those dates cycled between September 29, 2004
and the notorious November 18, 2004. The "paid"
commissions stats during that time period were
about $20 million. About 220% of the previous
time period.

From that period, they've processed September 29
through October 18 completely and have now been
working on the 19th for a week.

From September 29 to October 18 they "paid" out
$6,449,967.00

Those days were processed between February 11,
2005 and April 29, 2005 "paying out $14,241,011.80
or again around 220%

So, from July 1 to August 20(50 days), YMMSS
generated enough revenue to claim payouts of
$9 million.

It then took from September 29 to November 18,
again 50 days which is why the cycle time was
able to hold at the "goal" maximum of 90 days,
to generate enough revenue to claim the necessary
$20 million to pay the previous cycle.

So these record volume days were a 100% necessity
just to barely maintain Kim's promise of never
going over 90 days.

Well, those of us with common sense know you
can't double revenue forever.

September 29 to October 18(19 days) they "paid"
out $6,449,967.00 Remember, this was part of
those "record" volume days.

But it took from February 11 to April 29(77 days)
just to generate enough revenue to cover 19
days worth of purchases and "payouts" of
$14,241,011.80(again around 220%)

There are quite a few members on the YMForums
who seem to be very close to figuring out the
ridiculous numbers that are necessary to maintain
such a scheme.

If only I could give them a little nudge. :head:

Well, got a little sidetracked there. :)

Kim Inman should be able to snap off an answer
to that man's simple question in a heartbeat.

Instead, he has just been making up excuses as
to why the cycle times continue to rise.

Well done Arzel. Sorry for the pain that must
have been. :bow:

[sisco50]

Was comical reading. Normally I don't have the patience for it tho. :)

[Gringo]

The other comical thing is trying to recruit a successful ad executive making $150K+ to work at YMMSS selling paid to read ads. This will never happen. One look at the product and the demographics and the prospect will think you're joking. If Kim wants to put up $150K salary to some guy out of college he'll get plenty of people, but an established advertising pro would not even consider this. No doubt this will be a further excuse for the retail income for not rolling in, since they won't be able to fill the position.

It's just getting more and more amazing at the nonsense that they keep coming up with and how the groupies just swallow it.

[danielmeyers]

Hey Arzel, you're commentary on the conference calls is witty and insightful - you should do another! :)

[Arzel]

Thanks, unfortunately the most recent conference call was edited so that no one can know what was talked about. It was nothing more than a pep rally of YMMSS shill.

Apparently the servers are having some problems since it is now a week past the 17th and they are still not up. That is part of the call that I am guessing was edited out.

Mystery investment god Mark was also on the call, but that was all cut out as well. My guess is that whatever bunch of crap he said could be easily torn apart by just about anyone, so they don't want it made public, or it is probably obviously some other collection of ponzi/pryamid investments.

The only useful piece of information was from some testimonals which basically said this.

"YMMSS members, quit complaining about everything. Kim knows what to do and is doing it, so just shut up and be good little lemmings."

Me wonders how big of a cliff he is leading them off.

[drzod]

I joined in Jan 04 with $400. Of my $400, $30 went to fees and the rest ($370) went into the matrix. In 2004 I cycled 4 times and currently (supposedly) have $5920 in YMMSS. Of course I can never get paid because the cycle time keeps going up. I deliberately only put a small amount into this "investment" because I was skeptical in the beginning. I've heard the best way to make money in these schemes is to get in early and cash out fast. I waited too long to cash out. So now it's my turn. I have posted a question on the YMMSS gold forum that will probably be deleted (wanting to know about time lines and sources of information referenced in your forums). I am hoping that one of the members of Kim's inner circle e-mails me about hanging in there or doubting the system before it is deleted. I will then present this person with an opportunity of my own to get my money back. If they refuse I will accuse them of not believing in the system. Anyone else out there want to start this war with me?

[concerned]

I joined in Jan 04 with $400. Of my $400, $30 went to fees and the rest ($370) went into the matrix. In 2004 I cycled 4 times and currently (supposedly) have $5920 in YMMSS. Of course I can never get paid because the cycle time keeps going up.

First of all, if you already cycled, they you don't have to worry about cycle times. Like you said, you ALREADY cycled.

I've heard the best way to make money in these schemes is to get in early and cash out fast.

So you knew it was a scheme, and you tried to take advantage of the system and the many innocent victims. That doesn't seem very ethical, and it is something we don't tolerate at this site. We really don't stand here and try to help people that were trying to take advantage of innocent people. While I feel bad that you were scammed, I can't help to think of the many more people that were scammed because of your actions. We want to help everyone, not just the ones that tried to scam people and then when it blows up in their face, they cry wolf. That isn't fair to the innocent people.

I have posted a question on the YMMSS gold forum that will probably be deleted (wanting to know about time lines and sources of information referenced in your forums). I am hoping that one of the members of Kim's inner circle e-mails me about hanging in there or doubting the system before it is deleted. I will then present this person with an opportunity of my own to get my money back. If they refuse I will accuse them of not believing in the system. Anyone else out there want to start this war with me?

First you try to scam others. When it doesn't work, you resort to these childish games. If you are really upset about getting scammed go to the authorities, but please don't come here and ask us to start some childish "war" that you are trying to start. We act professional here, and at least the leadership at this site will not be participating in something childish, unethical, and unprofessional. If a member wishes to participate, then that is your choice, but please don't drag Matrixwatch's name in the mud with you.

[sisco50]

I joined in Jan 04 with $400. Of my $400, $30 went to fees and the rest ($370) went into the matrix. In 2004 I cycled 4 times and currently (supposedly) have $5920 in YMMSS. Of course I can never get paid because the cycle time keeps going up. I deliberately only put a small amount into this "investment" because I was skeptical in the beginning. I've heard the best way to make money in these schemes is to get in early and cash out fast. I waited too long to cash out. So now it's my turn. I have posted a question on the YMMSS gold forum that will probably be deleted (wanting to know about time lines and sources of information referenced in your forums). I am hoping that one of the members of Kim's inner circle e-mails me about hanging in there or doubting the system before it is deleted. I will then present this person with an opportunity of my own to get my money back. If they refuse I will accuse them of not believing in the system. Anyone else out there want to start this war with me?

I'm not sure what war you are talking about, but two wrongs never make a right. Trying to scam the scammers doesn't seem like the way to go. Bet it will end up badly and disappointing. Probably better off trying to take some sort of legal action instead of revenge. :(

[Arzel]

Yes, we are not here to start wars. We, at least I, try to provide information supporting my belief that YMMSS is a scam. To actively try to bring down YMMSS would most likely open us up to possible legal lawsuits, which is not something I would like to have to deal with.

I suggest you listen to sisco50.

Now if you wish to join our group in providing addition information which will help other people not to fall into these types of Ponzi scams, by all means join our group. Additional YMMSS members which feel like they have been scammed are always welcome.

[Salsa]

We act professional here... :rolleyes:

Concerned, I'm extremely disappointed by your response to drzod. If you think your attitude toward him puts you on some kind of moral high ground, you have a lot to learn. In my opinion, your rant as a supposed "Matirx Intelligence Chief" did more to muddy the reputation of Matrix Watch than drzod could ever do.

A year and a half ago the poor guy invested $400 in YMMSS. Of course he was skeptical at first, but he bought into it, as have so many, and evidently he became a believer. Did he know it was a scam at the time? Evidently not or he wouldn't have left his positions in there to repurchase for so long. Does he know it's a scam now? Yes, but apparently only because he did his DD too late. Only recently has be begun to realize that he's been conned, and it took a lot of courage for him to "come out." After coming out of the oppressive atmosphere of YMMSS and realizing what's been done to him, is he mad? Who wouldn't be? Is his first thought to cover his own back? Who wouldn't have that first thought? And if you think that because he "cycled" that means that he got his initial investment back, it only means that you have little clue how YMMSS is structured. I suggest that you educate yourself before you try to speak with authority. After you know what you're talking about, then try to be a little understanding. Give the guy some credit, or at least the benefit of the doubt. If you can't do that, maybe you should change your username to unconcerned.

Drzod: I'm sorry for the greeting that you received. I've been expecting (and hoping) that this forum might become a place for a growing number of YMMSS members to meet and try to find some remedy against YMMSS administration. However, I'm a relative newbie here, myself, so maybe some other site will serve better. We'll have to wait and see.

In the meantime, I'll repeat Arzel's sage advice from a different thread in which he suggested to another recently freed YMMSS member: "Take a few deep breaths."

I'm sure it must be infuriating if you've lost your $400--especially after thinking it had turned into $6,000--to say nothing of having had to read those "ads" for 72 weeks! Don't act in rage, however. You'll need to keep your calm and wits about you. In The End Game thread, Arzel put out a call to lawyers who might suggest legal remedies. Nothing is forthcoming yet, but it's still early. I have some ideas, but I'm not a lawyer, and I'll save them for now.

Regarding private messaging in the YMMSS site, I'd be surprised if they aren't monitored, so be careful what you say there. If you get private messages from other YMMSS members here (and I expect that you will), realize that they might be plants, so try to qualify them before spilling your guts too much.

I'm wishing the best for you. And if it makes you feel better, I personally know people who have put tens of thousands of actual cash into YMMSS (not a penny out)--and they still believe. I guess that with so much invested it's harder for them not to.

Congratulations on your freedom!

Salsa

[ycchen]

First, let us welcome drzod and thanks for sharing your insider information regarding how YMMSS works. All YMMSS "investors-turn-victims" are welcome to share your insights and information, so we can better understand how this ponzi works, and probably find a way for everyone to get your money back collectively.

I am not sure if drzod is innocent investor, risk taker or habitual speculator (MMG style). I guess we should probably not assume too much because I believe drzod can speaks for him/her self, and s/he can also choose NOT to do so.

My attitutde towards victim of pyramid/ponzi scam is very simple.

1) get your initual investmed back! If you invest $400, then get a refund, instead of trying to get $5000+. If you know by now that you are participating in a ponzi, then, an ethical way to do is just to get your seed money back.

2) Help other victims fight for their invested money (i.e. seed money and not "seed money + profit"), share information, form victim group and file complain to authority to bring down the scam!

I think that is the "right thing" to do.

Just my 2 cents. :)

[sisco50]

ycchen,

What exactly is an "innocent investor"? You have used this term many times in the past and I have yet to understand what this means. :) If there is an innocent investor than is there also a guilty investor? And in what context?
Thanks in advance for your forthcoming definition. :)

[ycchen]

innocent investors refer to those investors who are not aware of their participation in a ponzi-based scheme. They thought (or convinced by their friends and relatives) that they are investing in some legitimate retirement program, or investment program like those offered by banks and mutual funds.

These "innocent investors" are often those who are not familiar with how business works, and do not have enough knowledge on investment in general. They are often persuaded by friends and relatives around them. They are also those who most likely to put all the saving into the scheme. Unfortunately, they are often the most vulnerable and has everything to lose in our society.

I have said a thousand times that ponzi-based scheme cannot rely solely on "habitual speculators" who know exactly about what they are doing because these people will stop investing as soon as they know the ponzi is going down the hill. What keeps the ponzi alive and kicking is those "innocent investors" who belive in Kim, Bryan, Mac and also their relatives and friends. They are those who continue to reinvest in order to rescue their ponzi! Will you rescue PIPS by pouring your money into it at this stage? I don't think any MMG people will do anything to rescue IT, PIPS nor YMMSS at this stage :)

Guess what, "innnocent investors" will CONTINUE to put money into these ponzi-based schemes ESPECIALLY when they are "in crisis" (fake or real crisis)! :mad:. That is how ponzis survive and manage to grab their last round of donation before they dissappear. As the result, many habitual speculators and insiders also profit together with scam owner(s).

Well, MMG people might argue that they "take risk and lose sometime" too. The different is that they "calculate" their risk of joining ponzis, while "innocent investors" do not have the ability and knowledge to do the same. Most people who grab their relatives and friends into the scheme either have no idea or they "forgot" to inform them about the nature of the investment --- ponzi! That's why habitual speculators always win some, and lose some, and those who are most skilful win more than the rest. Ponzis are their game, but innocent investors are their TARGET. Without them, ponzis won't survive.

Do you know why pyramid-based matrix is not popular any more? Because most people understand how matrix works nowaday, and there are fewer innocent investors in this scheme. Without innocent investors, pyramid-based matrix dies.

In short, innocent investors are the FOUNDATION and major source of income of all the ponzi/pyramid schemes. And our efforts, together with other advocacy sites out there, are trying our best to serve these most vulnerable people. :)


ADD: we should probably go back to the topic on YMMSS conference call. :)

[concerned]

Salsa

Sorry you think I was too rough. You have to remember that he said this.

I've heard the best way to make money in these schemes is to get in early and cash out fast.

This sentence is very important because he knew it was a scheme the whole time and he knew how to take advantage of it. That is something we frown upon around here. If I misread that statement, or if he maybe could have written it better, then maybe I will appologize, but until then I stand by my comments. Remember, there are 2 groups of people that are responsible for so many people getting scammed. The first group are the owners that started the sites in the first place. The second group is more responsible though. It is the group of speculators that buy in first, and then beg others to join after them. Because of that group there are way too many people getting scammed. As far as I can tell from drzoid's post, is that he might fit in that second group, which is why I was so harsh on him. I am not here to help people that take advantage of others, I am here to help the ones that were truely scammed.

[Salsa]

Concerned: I respect your attitude toward scammers, and I especially admire your ability to take criticism as well as you can dish it out.

I read the quote that you took from drzod's post entirely differently, however. I took the fact that he joined YMMSS 18 months ago and didn't get out fast to strongly suggest that he didn't know at the time that it was a scam--that he only learned too late what it was and what he should have done to protect his own investment.

Besides, I found the most incriminating part of his post to be:
I waited too long to cash out. So now it's my turn.
...that suggests that he might have played other Ponzis and won. Still, I'm not certain about that, and I think that it's crucially important to give exiting YMMSS members the benefit of any doubt. In drzod's case, the greatest benefit raised for me was simply his anger. A savvy Ponzi player wouldn't come here talking of war. He'd simply take his loss in stride, as part of the game.

In any case, if we want Matrix Watch to become a safe harbor for innocent victims seeking remedies, I think it's important that we give more measured guidance to all. I'm most concerned that innocent victims will now be even more reluctant to come forward if they expect to receive a welcome like drzod's.

I wish you well,
Salsa

PS: Sorry, ycchen, for staying OT, but this seemed like the place for this. Back to topic?

[Arzel]

I am working on a new transcript and hopefully will complete it tonight, so we can get back on topic. :)

This will be an interesting transcript. I was always under the impression that the outside revenues YMMSS talks about were part of the program, but apparently that is not quite the case as the transcript will show.

Salsa,

When you have been dealing with the matrix scammers as long as we have you tend to get a little trigger happy. Many of the players of these scams are no better than the people that start them. However I do agree that measured guidance is a good thing. As always I welcome new YMMSS members to our site.

~Arzel

[Arzel]

My Comments are in blue This is a little longer than the previous transcripts, and a little more difficult to transcribe because Jim and Berry are not quite as clear as Kim, hard to believe, and the caller seemed frustrated so his comments were more difficult (i.e., I had to listen to the same section over and over again). Enjoy. :)


1:07

This appears to be the same caller as my earlier transcript, I think they are going to start blocking his calls :)

Beginning of second question from caller.

Canadian Caller (I believe it is the same Canadian caller from the earlier transcript) “…wondering what’s happened that $300,000 that you did last Monday, that’s great to do that, everything helps, you know, um.. the fact is we were told originally that supposed to be $300.000 doubling every 3 weeks, and that’s (?) turns into $600,000, then to 1.2, to 2.4 to 4.8 and that turned into $300,000 per month?” Caller and speaker talking over each other.

This caller brought up the $300,000 before, apparently wanting some additional clarification. The original word from Kim was that it would double as mentioned, but that is obviously not the case.

Moderator (I think Jim) “..misunderstanding “ both talking over each other.

Jim “It’s $300,000 a month, and then Berry go ahead.” Berry, “It’s $300,000 a month for 3 months and $500,000 then 1.2 and then ah.. $2 million. It does increase it just increases not as stationary 300,000, it’s on a monthly basis, now that’s just one of the outside sources of income. That’s what Kim and Mark are continuing to do, is to put these things line’um up. And they’ll start overlapping just like when you purchase EPC’s they overlap as time goes on. The same applies with what their doing, they put them in place, they take some time to build, um they set exit points for to start taking money, um some of them are set for short term return, and some of them are set up to put the money in and leave it, and leave it for a year, or 18 months.”

Caller, “Why is it that we can’t see that in writing somewhere, because I never viewed about the doubling in cycles….(caller not speaking very clearly)…can’t that be put somewhere where we can see those or not they been put….(?)….those deals have already been done…” Caller interrupted by Berry.

Caller is again asking for written documentation for the outside income sources. Mark was on the Thursday night call last, but that part of the recording was edited out, so I do not know what was said.

Berry, “No, the deals have already been done, but see here’s the thing, and this is where we go back to communications. If you were with any other company out there, first off, all those investment things Kim doesn’t really have to say anything about em because he taking his own money out of his pocket, and putting them into those things, where he could just as easily keep the money and just put them into those investments for his own pocket, but he’s doing that for..for the good of all YMMSS members, and for the long term stability. So he’s making a business decision with his own personal funds, so we’re going to get limited information on that…um..he puts it out on the calls sometimes things get, you know somebody hears something not quite the same way the second time they hear it and then they go out and hit the forums, gets or somehow switch it around. Um..you know we put out information on as many things, and it’s just that, you know, we like to let people know what’s coming up. We get them get put into place when the get put into place. You know for so much focus to be put on, ah..you know, dates and what not up yet it not up yet, when really the focus needs to be on our own individual business and own individual goals, and let things happen when they happen, um.. The alternative to that would be to not mention anything and just bring‘em up when they’re done, you know, then there’s not any questions about dates and where is it, where is it, you know, we’ll just bring these things out there. We got and auction site, here it is, you know, we got servers, we switched over, and now we’re back to 5 days a week processing…you know, that, that’s the alternative. You know, so the question is, which would the members rather have? Knowledge that we do have things that we’re working on for the long term, um..knowledge of improvements that are in the works, um..as the dates are gonna vary, there gonna change around, or would we rather not have any information.”

I find this very interesting. The outside investments have always been mentioned as part of YMMSS, but apparently that is not true. Kim is doing this for the good of YMMSS. This would make me a little nervous, especially since Kim has no requirement to do any of this. Not much security in that!

Berry, “Um..Part of the strength of YM, why were we are were we are, is because we’ve been so transparent in what we do, you know, we inform everybody, every step of the way. 99% of the companies out there don’t do that, they don’t tell you anything about what they’re doing, and they just, you know, it is. We believe we’re a whole different type of business, it’s never been done before, we’re still learning as a company, what we’re doing, um..we don’t have anything to fall back on as far as, you know, comparing it to somebody else who has done the same thing and say, ok, here is where they screwed up, we’re gonna, we’re gonna avoid this mistake by doing this. We’re gonna make mistakes along the way, we’re gonna hit bumps in the road along the way. It’s a brand new concept, it’s a new..well it’s a 3 year old concept but it’s a 3 year old company that’s still in it’s infancy, that still has growing pains, we’re always gonna see something that’s not working exactly like we want it, we’re always gonna have challenges and bumps in the road.”

I love it when they throw around stupid statistics like ‘99%’ of companies don’t do this.’ These guys don’t know what they are talking about and just spew out whatever sounds good. I suppose the same could be said about this, but at least I am not making up statistics on the spot!

Jim, “You know the ah good thing to get out of all of this is..you said it at the very beginning the $300,000 was really great, and ah..there may have been some misunderstanding how is was presented at the beginning..it’s $300,000 a month, I think, for 3 months then it doubles to….$600,000 a month? $500,000 whatever the case may be, you know which ever is least.”

How are these guys even part of the business, no one ever seems to know exactly what the heck is going on, or how much is going in where and when, and yet they know that 99% of all companies don’t or do, do something.

Berry, “Now that’s not clearly a doubling thing, but its..” Jim and Berry talking over each other.

Jim, “But let me get back to my point, my point is, is if we..you know..if Kim through what he’s doing and with Mark working can create one $300,000 stream of income they can create more, and that’s the thing that I think, the reality of it is..is that…it really happened, I mean, they really did create it, $300,000 [filled up?] in the commissions payable account, and people got paid that might have had to wait another 3 or 4 or 5 days got paid sooner than that, and the fact that they can create one ought to be a pretty clear signal that they create more. It’s just a matter of time of getting them into place, and that’s, you know, and that brings a lot of security to me as far as what their doing on that end to ah..(?) the outside sources of income. You know, we can’t micro manage the time that it took into place, but I mean it’s pretty clear that if they can create one stream of income like that, they can create more, and so that’s what I think is positive is on that, not over analyze it, you know exactly how it was presented, cause it may have been an exciting time and putting in a little off, and then things, you know, got passed along…ah…we’ll get better at communicating those things, one way or another.”

What! They can create one which means they can create more? Where is the reality in that? What kind of logic are they using, I have no idea. Perhaps they need to do a little more analyzing themselves, because they clearly don’t know how the business is being run, and if they do they are not telling

1:13:45

Caller, “Ok, now which” [confusing - caller mentions 25% of the commissions]”

Jim, “25% of every dollar that is purchased, you know, the EPC purchase is..is ah..goes to the company YMMSS. Out of that 25%, 3% is paid to the referring member on the purchase of EPCs, you have 22% left. Out of that 22% half of is taken to run the company, to pay the staff, pay the servers, whatever they’re doing, whatever they got to pay. The other 11%, Kim on his own decision has set aside to create outside sources of income.”

Caller, “Well if it’s coming from there, well how can you say it’s coming out of his pocket? If it’s coming out of the commission’s 25% [?]” Jim interrupts.

This is a good point, one that I am glad he asked.

Jim, “That’s Kim’s profit, that’s his money.” Several people talking.

Caller, “What do you mean he earned it? That’s the companies money.” Background voice “Oh, Jeash.”

Berry, “Anyway you want to cut up, slice and dice it, or chop it up”

Jim interrupts, “YMMSS money is Kim” Quick stop.

I thought he was going to say Kim’s money, but he doesn’t quite say that. But it is obvious that it is Kim’s money and he can do whatever he wants, which should make YMMSS members quite wary about any future investment income streams. Jim and Berry are obviously getting a little tired of this caller by this point by the snide background comment.

Jim, “Kim Inman is the CEO over all [mumbling, something about ‘pull all the ship up’ ?]” not clear “right”

Berry, “25% goes to him, to the company. He takes 11% of that, that he could just as easily put in his pocket and say ‘Thank you very much’, and puts it into these bigger outside deals to create money coming back for our benefit. He don’t have to do that, I mean...” Jim interrupts.

Yes, thank you very much for doing what? Taking money and being nice enough to invest it and give the YMMSS members a few crumbs back to keep them from revolting.

Jim, “That’s, that’s the whole thing I getting at. Is we can analyze this down to a, you know, down to a small little peapod, but the big picture is, did or did not $300,000 come into the commissions payable last Monday? It did. Where did it come from? It come from outside sources of income that Kim and Mark and those went and set up, so Kim may create more of those. I believe they can. They’re…they’re ah…they said they’re going to, and so..that’s..that’s a positive out of it, but if you get over analy.. analytical, and start saying ‘what if this money….’, you know the fact is..is that the income that was generated, is gonna keep being generated from those types of investments or outside sources of income. The vast majority..and I..I say this, you know, within a (?), the vast majority of individual YMMSS members…..I know myself is big in that category, I can’t, I don’t, I don’t, I could never step up to the table and get involved in some of the outside sources of income that they’re able to participate, because I don’t have $2 million, $10 million, or ONE million dollars. So we..somebody like me, in a very small town, is benefiting from what Kim and Mark is doing as far as outside source of income even though I personally don’t qualify. I think it’s, I think it’s a win win for all of us and something we need to be positive about. To be over analytical about it, you’ll drive yourself nuts. You know the fact is, they created $300,000, it’s gonna be coming on a monthly basis, that stream of income will increase, and they’re gonna be creating more of those. I think it’s good news. [pause] That’s one area where they told us something was coming and it come, but I think we should (?) positive, don’t you think?”

What proof do they have that Kim will continue to provide these outside streams? They already said it is his money and he can do whatever he wants with it. And where do they think he got the $2 or $10 million? If more YMMSS members did a little more analyzing then perhaps YMMSS would not have lasted as long as it has.

Caller, “Anything that goes into the commissions is always positive, you know [unclear]”

Jim, “And more of that is going to happen. I mean more of that is gonna happen and more of the ah..ya know..”

Caller, “At the same time Berry, ah….the [unclear] $2 or $3 million dollars ..[unclear] This is really our business, everybody, like Kim has said before, this just isn’t his business, it’s our business, and, you know, if there is outside sources of income that are coming in..” Interrupted.

Berry, “Absolutely, but not every company will, will do that. That’s what we’re saying, not every company makes that decision, not everybody, not every CEO of every company, I mean..XYZ company selling XYZ product does not say, ok, guess what, because of the purchases of XYZ products our company was able to develop 4 other income sources over the years…we’re gonna share that will all of you, they don’t do it, and that’s all were saying is that we, is that Kim realizes that the reason YMMSS is able to participate in these other outside income sources is because of the membership as a whole, and that’s why it’s being brought back into the commission payable I see nothing unfair about what we are doing, I see it as more than fair, and not, not every company would recognize that or even care about it,….I think it’s all positive.”

Jim and Berry are clearly getting tired with the caller now, and you can clearly here someone say “End the call” in the next segment. The caller pauses slightly and continues with his statement. The caller makes some good points that Jim and Berry just don'’ understand. YMMSS always mentions the 11% to go towards outside investment, so they should let the members know what is going on, but Jim and Berry continue to say how that is Kim’s money and the members should just shut up and be happy that Kim and Mark are being nice enough to provide these income streams to the members. And they wonder why people are getting upset.

1:19:05

Caller, “Yeah, we’re looking forward to it [background voice says ‘End the call’] .bigger and.better things all the time, we’re looking for those, those kinds of outside sources of income to come in and overlap eventually, you know it’s going to be a slow process and we realize that we’ve got to wait for the end of the year, you know, but were in it for the long haul.”

The rest is a rambling triad and doesn’t contain much information. I don’t know why I even tried to transcribe it. It cost me and hour and a half of my life and gave me a huge headache. :( On the plus side you get to see how clueless Jim and Berry sound. I don’t even know which one it is anymore, not that it even matters.

Jim or Berry, “That’s, that’s the key, and we might you know, the thing is, is ah, is ah, we might, we might not have to wait that long, I mean there’s, there’s all kinds of things that, there’s there’s greater possibilities then I think we realize for things to turn around much quicker, but if we take the long vision of it, I think we’ll..it’s better to be surprised, and that’s what I was talking about on the communication things. Sometimes…I think we’d be better if we..Hey guess what we’ve got now, instead of telling people stuff is coming, but I don’t control how information is carried…Kim..Kim decides that, and he’s a very, you know, pretty open person as far as, you know, as far as he can…as far as telling what’s coming, what’s coming, he’s always done that ever since I started business a year ago and sometimes I, I ah you know, admittedly I had him reach and grab my ear”

[1:20:16] Rambling confusion about one day late or something, not very clear. [1:20:28]

“But I can’t control how he communicates, that’s his choice, you know, cause there’s people that want to know , I mean it’s sort of a balancing act, I know you know what I talking about I’m just rambling, but um..it is a balancing act of giving people the information that they need to know, to, to make them feel like they’re in the..where they should be…informed. But, on the other hand, you know, people should always keep in mind that there could be delays on things, and it’s just, it just happens in my business, it probably happens in every business, I mean there’s things that happen, that’s the way life works, it’s not, not so much what happens, it’s how we as people deal with it that really matters, I think that’s where, you know YMMSS membership has done extremely well, I mean we dealt for a long time with the new website being delayed, in time is come, it was there, and the things we talked about they’ll be here. And on the $300,000 deal, the only thing I say about is, hey lets have some more, if you can do one, you can do another, you can do four more if you want to, you know, you’ve shown me you have the ability to do it, and I take a lot of positive out of that. Cause I think a lot of people didn’t believe it, to be honest with you, I think a lot of people felt like ’well this is something else to keep us hanging on’.”

Caller, “I want you to know that in the, in the chat rooms we were told by the moderators that, that was supposed to double every 3 weeks, so where they got there information from, we thought it came from you guys, and we were given (?) thought is was supposed to double every 3 weeks, so how that can be communicated to us [unclear]”

Yeah, they were pretty much tired of talking to this caller, and I guess I don’t blame them. He didn’t like their answers and they didn’t like his questions.

Mod, “We’ll take care of that communication situation” Jim and Berry talking, additional callers waiting and the calls ends.

1:22:35

[danielmeyers]

The rest is a rambling triad and doesn’t contain much information. I don’t know why I even tried to transcribe it. It cost me and hour and a half of my life and gave me a huge headache. On the plus side you get to see how clueless Jim and Berry sound. I don’t even know which one it is anymore, not that it even matters.


Thanks for dedicating 90 minutes of your time to this. I also tried to listen to the recorded version of the conference call, but have to admit that I was lost and confused and found it hard to hear most people even with my volume turned up. I had to give up after five minutes.

Earlier in this thread you said that parts of conference calls are being cut out - how do you know that? Did you hear them "live" first, or did you hear that from friends?

Interesting to see obvious censorship from a company that is "upfront and open and honest with everyone".

Daniel

[Arzel]

If you listen to the Thursday night May 19th call, the call starts with Mark saying goodbye, and starts up with testimonials right after that. I wouldn't suggest obvious censorship if the timing wasn't so presise. The odds of having the recording start at a clear point between two segments is unlikely.

Consider how often you turn on the TV and it just happens to be right inbetween two commercials, or right at the begging of a program, it is statisticaly unlikely to happen. Combine that with the obvious reason for YMMSS to not want that information recorded, and I think it is pretty clear that it was intended. Finally, the fact that, that call was by far the shortest recording I have seen makes me believe the whole thing was recorded and the begining was simply droped from the posted recording.

I would say that I am 95.0% (95% Confidence Interval - 91.4% to 97.4%) certain that the call was censored, based on an average call of 60 minutes with 12 segment breaks of approximately 15 seconds.

[surfer]

I joined in Jan 04 with $400. Of my $400, $30 went to fees and the rest ($370) went into the matrix. In 2004 I cycled 4 times and currently (supposedly) have $5920 in YMMSS. Of course I can never get paid because the cycle time keeps going up. I deliberately only put a small amount into this "investment" because I was skeptical in the beginning. I've heard the best way to make money in these schemes is to get in early and cash out fast. I waited too long to cash out. So now it's my turn. I have posted a question on the YMMSS gold forum that will probably be deleted (wanting to know about time lines and sources of information referenced in your forums). I am hoping that one of the members of Kim's inner circle e-mails me about hanging in there or doubting the system before it is deleted. I will then present this person with an opportunity of my own to get my money back. If they refuse I will accuse them of not believing in the system. Anyone else out there want to start this war with me?

Welcome to MatrixWatch, drzod.

I also knew about YMMSS early last year, when
cycle times were between 60-70 days.

I saw almost immediately Kim Inman's little twist
on the old ponzi scheme. Requiring smaller
positions to cycle numerous times before paying
out was a great way to help insure a little more
longevity.

At that point, I could have safely tossed in a
couple grand and pulled out my seed money
after one cycle.

Since that time, I have accepted the
idiotic $10 challenge that members like to throw
out when they claim there's so much more
enlightenment on the inside. BTW, they are
wrong.

That also allowed me to see your posts in the
Gold Forum, drzod. They had not been deleted
yet. FWIW, you could be putting your account
at risk. That wouldn't make sense if you were
a regular player in these games. ;) I also saw
that you stole my Yoda signature, LOL. :D

Only you know whether you realized it was a
ponzi or not. But there was no way that I
was going to steal from the later victims
despite the decent profit I could have turned.

The people that continually play these ponzis
are thieves. Hopefully, this was your first and
last venture of this sort.

Nobody is looking for a war here. This forum
just shows how unrealistic Kim Inman's business
model is. It also provides info and support to those
who may be checking things out ahead of time or
are just now realizing that they've been misled.

Good luck.

[surfer]

If you listen to the Thursday night May 19th call, the call starts with Mark saying goodbye, and starts up with testimonials right after that. I wouldn't suggest obvious censorship if the timing wasn't so presise. The odds of having the recording start at a clear point between two segments is unlikely.

Consider how often you turn on the TV and it just happens to be right inbetween two commercials, or right at the begging of a program, it is statisticaly unlikely to happen. Combine that with the obvious reason for YMMSS to not want that information recorded, and I think it is pretty clear that it was intended. Finally, the fact that, that call was by far the shortest recording I have seen makes me believe the whole thing was recorded and the begining was simply droped from the posted recording.

I would say that I am 95.0% (95% Confidence Interval - 91.4% to 97.4%) certain that the call was censored, based on an average call of 60 minutes with 12 segment breaks of approximately 15 seconds.


Thanks for another transcription Arzel.

The timing is pretty suspicious, although they
have had issues all along with hotconference
and all the other online conferencing software
they've tried.

[drzod]

Due to remarks by Concerned, I felt it necessary to post this reply. I purposely used "harsh" language to get a gauge of the passion of the individuals in this thread - now I know.

Allow me to tackle the response by Concerned:

The first comment in regards to cycle times makes no sense to me. You need to understand the way YMMSS works. Just because you cycle does not mean that you get paid. You can waive your commissions and keep doubling your money until you choose to get paid commissions. Just because YMMSS says I have $5920 doesn't mean a thing. The fact of the matter is that I paid $400 and I have received nothing. Like others in this program, I "let it ride" due to the short cycle times (in early to mid 2004). I accept full responsibility for not claiming my commissions until now (when the cycle times are going up exponentially). If you read all the YMMSS literature you would have let your money ride as well.

The second point in regards to the "scheme" is disturbing. This comment is meant in the present context. I would have not joined if I knew what I know now. I am not interested in scamming innocent people in YMMSS. To your point - this is just wrong. Your forums indicate that the early ones in this process are the ones in on the scheme. These are the people I am interested in. I have a screening process in place that would exclude those who have not gotten paid.

Finally the reference to "childish games" and "childish war" is amusing. I chose the wrong word with war (in light of events in the world today). If you don't stand up to these scammers who will? I can't go to authorities until the bottom falls out so that will not work. It's easy to post moral high ground responses when you are on the outside looking in. I am an ethical, law-abiding, honest, and professional. I took a chance and got burned - I thought you wanted to hear from YMMSS members about their experience. I shared mine (along with a few vengeful comments) and got jumped on. I only spent $400, so I can't imagine how some members who spent thousands are feeling. Excuse me for wanting a little revenge - next time I'll just shut up and post happy grams to make you happy.

Besides, what is point of a forum if not to express opinions?

[Arzel]

Due to remarks by Concerned, I felt it necessary to post this reply. I purposely used "harsh" language to get a gauge of the passion of the individuals in this thread - now I know.

Allow me to tackle the response by Concerned:

The first comment in regards to cycle times makes no sense to me. You need to understand the way YMMSS works. Just because you cycle does not mean that you get paid. You can waive your commissions and keep doubling your money until you choose to get paid commissions. Just because YMMSS says I have $5920 doesn't mean a thing. The fact of the matter is that I paid $400 and I have received nothing. Like others in this program, I "let it ride" due to the short cycle times (in early to mid 2004). I accept full responsibility for not claiming my commissions until now (when the cycle times are going up exponentially). If you read all the YMMSS literature you would have let your money ride as well.

The second point in regards to the "scheme" is disturbing. This comment is meant in the present context. I would have not joined if I knew what I know now. I am not interested in scamming innocent people in YMMSS. To your point - this is just wrong. Your forums indicate that the early ones in this process are the ones in on the scheme. These are the people I am interested in. I have a screening process in place that would exclude those who have not gotten paid.

Finally the reference to "childish games" and "childish war" is amusing. I chose the wrong word with war (in light of events in the world today). If you don't stand up to these scammers who will? I can't go to authorities until the bottom falls out so that will not work. It's easy to post moral high ground responses when you are on the outside looking in. I am an ethical, law-abiding, honest, and professional. I took a chance and got burned - I thought you wanted to hear from YMMSS members about their experience. I shared mine (along with a few vengeful comments) and got jumped on. I only spent $400, so I can't imagine how some members who spent thousands are feeling. Excuse me for wanting a little revenge - next time I'll just shut up and post happy grams to make you happy.

Besides, what is point of a forum if not to express opinions?

You can go to the authorities. File a complaint against YMMSS with your state AG and with the FTC. Part of the reason why these companies last as long as they do is becuase the victims don't do enough reporting to government agencies. These government agencies won't act unless there are enough complaints. And given the current state of things regarding the "United We Stand" campaign it is more apparent then ever that YMMSS is a Ponzi scheme.

Granted we are limited in what we can as individuals do. Making the public aware of these scams and reporting them to the appropriate government agencies is really the most we can do. However, with the help of people like yourself we can make a difference.


Also, enough of the arguing about your sincerity. We see a number of people that know full well what they are doing (not neccessary in this forum) so we may get a little jumpy when you phrase your comments to make it sound like you understood the ponzi nature of YMMSS beforehand. Feel free to be a part of our forum, if you stay long enough you will realize just how many people are out there with only the desire to seperate you from your money.

[sisco50]

"Besides, what is point of a forum if not to express opinions?"

Nail, hammer, swing, contact! Most excellent point! :) I might add that one does not need to be a wannabe egghead nor an expert in order to have and express an opinion. :)

[ycchen]

"Besides, what is point of a forum if not to express opinions?"

Nail, hammer, swing, contact! Most excellent point! :) I might add that one does not need to be a wannabe egghead nor an expert in order to have and express an opinion. :)

What is the point of this comment again? It has nothing to do with the subject or YMMSS. Please stay focus, and if you want to make a general opinion about "opinion", start a new thread.

[concerned]

Due to remarks by Concerned, I felt it necessary to post this reply. I purposely used "harsh" language to get a gauge of the passion of the individuals in this thread - now I know.

Good for you. I do the same thing to try to weed out the people that are interested in crying wolf for one scheme, while taking advantage of innocent people in another similar scheme. You wouldn't be supprised how many people ask us for help, then turn around and engage in scamming our members again.

The first comment in regards to cycle times makes no sense to me. You need to understand the way YMMSS works. Just because you cycle does not mean that you get paid. You can waive your commissions and keep doubling your money until you choose to get paid commissions. Just because YMMSS says I have $5920 doesn't mean a thing.

I do know how they work. Your problem is that you said you cycled, but you never said that you re-invested. You should have made that clear. I can't read your mind.

I accept full responsibility for not claiming my commissions until now (when the cycle times are going up exponentially). If you read all the YMMSS literature you would have let your money ride as well.

If you were a true victim, as you claim, and you didn't know it was a ponzi, then why should you take responsibility. They are the ones running an illegal and unethical scheme. Why do you let them make you think it is your fault. If they didn't start the scheme, you wouldn't have been scammed, right?

The second point in regards to the "scheme" is disturbing. This comment is meant in the present context. I would have not joined if I knew what I know now. I am not interested in scamming innocent people in YMMSS. To your point - this is just wrong.

I didn't think so, but read my comment above. People try to do this all the time. They try to take advantage of all schemes, and when they are on the losing end, they want justice, but if they are on the winning end, they claim it is all legitimate. They are hypocrites. I was testing you to see if you were one of them.

Your forums indicate that the early ones in this process are the ones in on the scheme. These are the people I am interested in. I have a screening process in place that would exclude those who have not gotten paid.

Sometimes yes. Sometimes they are friends of the owner, other times they are fake names created by the owner. With an unethical business like this, there is no way to guard against even more unethical dealings. Why are you interested in these people? You need to focus on the owner. If you start focusing on fake names or friends with inside information, you will get nowhere. Also, just because they got paid, doesn't mean anything.

If you don't stand up to these scammers who will? I can't go to authorities until the bottom falls out so that will not work.

I agree with standing up to the scammers, but why can't you go to the authorities? That confuses me. Why do you have to wait for them to fail, and run away so that it is harder to find them? What they are doing is already illegal. They run a ponzi scheme. Why don't you contact authorities while they are still tracable?

Excuse me for wanting a little revenge - next time I'll just shut up and post happy grams to make you happy.

Well, in order to get revenge, please go about it in a legal, ethical, and correct mannor. We don't condone doing the things you mentioned doing. Go to the authorities. File a lawsuit. Contact the BBB. Don't try to do something that could possibly be illegal also. Haven't you heard this saying?

"Two wrongs don't make a right."

You don't need to shut up here. You need to be more clear and consise so that mixed messages don't happen again, and you need to follow certain rules and laws. There is no need to stoop down to the level of the scammers. You should take the high road with them while getting back at them.

[drzod]

I just had a thought after my responses to my initial post...With a cycle times so high, a lot of members are not buying additional EPC's - you can see this by the declining number of posts to each forum. As a result, in the future many members have done what I have done - changed their income option from repurchase (let it double without getting paid), to pay commissions. When this happens (assuming they put no additional money into YMMSS) their EPC's are capped at whatever level they are at. With the cycle times going up each time the system processes, eventually people will run out a EPC's and be unable to post ads for others to read. The only response (which in reading your comments in this forum is expected) is to buy more EPC's. I simply asked the question is there another solution being considered. I will post the reply.

Thanks for opening my eyes to the true nature of YMMSS and allowing me to vent (thanks for the support Salsa). This is the first time I joined one of these "opportunities," so this is all new to me. A former colleague (who still believes) turned me on to YMMSS (that is because he got in early and got paid - thus my comment). I researched what I could, and found no compelling argument against joining YMMSS. It seemed too easy - double your money from reading ads, but everyone I conversed with had gotten paid, so I joined based upon my colleague’s character. Concerned I see your points and understand why you responded the way you did. I would not want someone in this forum if they knew of these scams and just wanted revenge before moving on to the next one. I'll take everyone's advice and "breathe a little." I take pride in never before being victimized by these schemes, so this hurts and I had to vent. Sorry about any headache I may have caused.

[Arzel]

I just had a thought after my responses to my initial post...With a cycle times so high, a lot of members are not buying additional EPC's - you can see this by the declining number of posts to each forum. As a result, in the future many members have done what I have done - changed their income option from repurchase (let it double without getting paid), to pay commissions. When this happens (assuming they put no additional money into YMMSS) their EPC's are capped at whatever level they are at. With the cycle times going up each time the system processes, eventually people will run out a EPC's and be unable to post ads for others to read. The only response (which in reading your comments in this forum is expected) is to buy more EPC's. I simply asked the question is there another solution being considered. I will post the reply.

Thanks for opening my eyes to the true nature of YMMSS and allowing me to vent (thanks for the support Salsa). This is the first time I joined one of these "opportunities," so this is all new to me. A former colleague (who still believes) turned me on to YMMSS (that is because he got in early and got paid - thus my comment). I researched what I could, and found no compelling argument against joining YMMSS. It seemed too easy - double your money from reading ads, but everyone I conversed with had gotten paid, so I joined based upon my colleague’s character. Concerned I see your points and understand why you responded the way you did. I would not want someone in this forum if they knew of these scams and just wanted revenge before moving on to the next one. I'll take everyone's advice and "breathe a little." I take pride in never before being victimized by these schemes, so this hurts and I had to vent. Sorry about any headache I may have caused.

No headache here. :)

I had not thought about your one comment. With members not buying EPC's as before, and the existing one being switched to pay commissions the number of ads would have dropped considerably. No surprise in their answer, that is there answer for everything.

"Feeling blue, just buy some more EPC's, I did and I am giddy! How do you respond when someone asks if this is a Ponzi scheme, just buy some more EPC's and you will forget they even asked you a question."

[Arzel]

I created a new thread with drzod's compaint called YMMSS Complaints (http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?p=22980#post22980) to try and keep the conference call talk on track.

[swishnev]

i wish i would have read this post a very long time ago. hilarious

[200_K_already]

Even old Swishy must admit that YM is not a Scam. Or is he so disingenuous, like all of the others here that he will not admit it.

[swishnev]

alan, the only money i might see from ymmss is the refund i am to receive. the same holds true for everyone i personally know that's in it. don't speak for me

[200_K_already]

Is it a scam Swishy?

[Dreamer]

Is there a reason you are hijacking threads? What does this have to do with conference calls, or for that matter, just about any of ur other posts?

[200_K_already]

your right. I apologise