The End Game

[Salsa]

There has been a debate for some time as to whether YMMSS would survive, fizzle or crash. Judging from a thunder clap in my head some days ago, when many unanswered questions fell into place all at once for me, I think the answer is crash.

Before I explain, I have an serious message for visiting members of YMMSS. This is especially for those of you who are long-term members and newer members who have other significant resources:

I expect that Kim will (or probably already has) offer you an investment opportunity that will both help to generate outside revenue for YMMSS and make a tidy sum for you. When he makes this offer, be extremely careful. Do research like you've never done before.

However much you might love Kim, surely you love yourself more, and you owe this due diligence to yourself. If you don't do it, you are likely to lose every dollar that you invest. I would recommend that you begin with a simple search on Google for "affinity fraud (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22affinity+fraud%22)."

The first result that should come up is the SEC affinity fraud (http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/affinity.htm) page. Many of the following results are simply variations of the SEC page. Some are significantly expanded, however. To see many anecdotal cases of affinity fraud, you might check out the Affinity Fraud - Group Focused (http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/InPerson/MajorPerson/affinity.htm) article at crimes-of-persuasion.com. I'll warn you that it's long, but I think you'll see that YMMSS is a perfect match--most especially the recurring chorus of, "I can't believe he did this to us! He seemed like such a good and honest man. He was one of us!"

Classic characteristics of a group affinity con are:
The fraudster gains the trust and leadership of a group by pretending to have the same background and values as its members. Religious and minority groups are most widely susceptible, but pretended affinities to any group will do; e.g., "Have you been conned before? I know what it's like, and I'm here to make it up to you. I'm like you"

The con is frequently associated with Ponzi or pyramid schemes. The most powerful (inner circle) members of the group typically include members who were early investors of the scheme and, thus, made large profits early-on. They were promised spectacular returns at low risk, and because the fraudster delivered the high return, as promised, they trust his word. Almost always, they are genuinely in awe of their miracle working leader, willing to trust him without end and honored to have his trust.

The leader's honesty and integrity is established among the general membership largely by what he has said about himself and through testimonials from members of the group who are in profit. He never has genuine, outside referrals that are of any relevance. False ones are often made up, however, and taken at face value by the members.

He never provides a written prospectus providing specifics about financial operations. There is talk that such things exist, but members never see them. He's cagey and possibly even offended when asked about such things because the bottom line that he delivers, he says, should be proof enough of his ability to produce what he says he will.

The leader guides the group to become more and more closely knit, until the members think of it as a family. This makes them ever more susceptible to trusting the leader and his knowledge, advice and vision. He then works to isolate the "family" from the outside world, cultivating an "us against them" philosophy.

Secrecy also becomes part of the group culture. Members are discouraged and even prohibited from seeking outside advice or airing any grievances outside the "family." Thus, when problems arise within the group, they tend to be resolved within the "family," reducing the chance of scandalous leaks.

Of course, the leader is also secretive of how he is able to create such high returns on the members' investments. Supposed investments in high-yield foreign bank instruments in secret "prime banks," by the way, is a common explanation.

Besides making money, the importance of fulfilling philanthropic ends is a seed that the fraudster often plants early in his scheme. This is one of the elements that makes religions organizations particularly susceptible to group affinity fraud because often the scam is not only presented as a way to making a lot of money fast, but also a way to help other people--one of the built-in messages of nearly all religions. But it also helps by preparing members for the day when they start losing money instead of making it--"at least they're helping other people."

The importance of faith as a personal value is another element that makes religious groups particularly susceptible because faith is also built into all religions. In any case, it is especially important for an affinity fraudster to inculcate his flock with faith, because without a viable business plan to show, they will need it in moments of doubt. (It's also all that they will have--or not have--in the end because their money will be gone and so will the con man.)

The above list is not all about YMMSS. The characteristics listed are those of thousands of affinity cons that have been perpetrated around the world for years. If you saw YMMSS in the list, however, perhaps there is a personal message in it for you.

Why I think this is the (very) end game for YMMSS

Up to now, I had guessed that Kim would simply let YMMSS fizzle, milking as much cash out of it as possible, for as long as possible. I still think that he'll milk out as much as possible, but to take the most money that he can, he'll have to work in a different vein. Try out this scenario:

The vast majority of members have never gotten a penny out of YMMSS, they're getting disillusioned, not buying any more EPCs and, therefore, the are fairly useless to him--except as a coerced cheering section. Many earlier members, however, got a lot of money out of YMMSS, and I don't think Kim will leave without getting as much of it "back" as he can.

A seed planted in YMMSS long ago was that it would come to largely depend on outside revenue in order to achieve its long-term goals. But now, the company has fallen on hard times due to all sorts of misfortunes and in spite of Kim's diligent planning. To make matters even more frustrating, there are currently some spectacular investment opportunities "out there," but YMMSS currently doesn't have the capital to take advantage of them. Where could Kim find the necessary capital to make those investments that will save YMMSS and help tens of thousands of members live in financial security? From people who he has already helped to make a lot of money and who would trust their lives to his word.

By now, I'd guess that it's late in the end game. Really "hard times" didn't start to fall on YMMSS until March. That's when Kim's earlier prediction proved false, that cycle times would begin a drop to 90 once they had climbed to 150--160, tops. I suspect that it would also have been the latest time for him to start priming for the needed "outside investment capital." I'm convinced, though, there are no significant outside investments except for Kim's pockets--and those of what cohorts he might have. Watch what money you have!

To Matrix Watch regulars: I expect that more and more YMMSS members will be showing up here, looking for help. This is going to be a really tough bullet for them to bite. Please treat them with utmost compassion and respect. Another classic characteristic of group affinity fraud is that, from the outside, it seems so obvious what is going on. From the inside, however, the psychological forces at play can be blinding. It's probably happened to 'most all of us at least once. I can say that I sure was slugged by an affinity con once. I lost $800 in merchandise to a guy who claimed he wanted to rep for me. For weeks I thought I had met my new best friend, and the next moment, I felt like I'd been punched in the gut. When I think about it now, I still do--even though it was over 25 years ago. Please be understanding.

Salsa

[Arzel]

Salsa, I think you may be right. The new servers still do not appear to be up, and the most recent conference call was nothing more than a pep rally. It sounded like Kim and Co. brought in every testimonal they could to preach how good things are.


The leader's honesty and integrity is established among the general membership largely by what he has said about himself and through testimonials from members of the group who are in profit. He never has genuine, outside referrals that are of any relevance. False ones are often made up, however, and taken at face value by the members.


I think I heard how Kim has high integrity about a half dozen times from various testimonals on this latest call.


The importance of faith as a personal value is another element that makes religious groups particularly susceptible because faith is also built into all religions. In any case, it is especially important for an affinity fraudster to inculcate his flock with faith, because without a viable business plan to show, they will need it in moments of doubt. (It's also all that they will have--or not have--in the end because their money will be gone and so will the con man.)


At least one testimonal went into detail about how God brought him into YMMSS.


The leader guides the group to become more and more closely knit, until the members think of it as a family. This makes them ever more susceptible to trusting the leader and his knowledge, advice and vision. He then works to isolate the "family" from the outside world, cultivating an "us against them" philosophy.


Kim constantly reminds people that they are part of a family.


Secrecy also becomes part of the group culture. Members are discouraged and even prohibited from seeking outside advice or airing any grievances outside the "family." Thus, when problems arise within the group, they tend to be resolved within the "family," reducing the chance of scandalous leaks.


One testimonal talked repeated about how Kim knows what is going on, and he is doing everything for the group. Not to worry about the cycle times, and to stop complaining about them because Kim knows what the numbers are and what needs to be done.


Of course, the leader is also secretive of how he is able to create such high returns on the members' investments. Supposed investments in high-yield foreign bank instruments in secret "prime banks," by the way, is a common explanation.


Even the big $300,000 amount put into the system on Monday was not fully revealed. Where did it come from? What kind of investment was it? Kim won't provide any details to the members regarding specifics, nor do they provide any kind of financial statement to prospective members.


However much you might love Kim, surely you love yourself more, and you owe this due diligence to yourself. If you don't do it, you are likely to lose every dollar that you invest. I would recommend that you begin with a simple search on Google for "affinity fraud."


But this is why I really think Salsa is correct. One of the testimonals was from big affinity person. He kept refering to YMMSS as his best program to his affinity group. He talks about YMMSS like a sport handicaper talks about his "Locks of the week" for betting on college football games.

YMMSS is in serious trouble, and I certainly welcome any YMMSS members to our group when YMMSS crashes

Salsa,

Thank you for that post, I had not thought of the affinity aspect before.

[Gringo]

Where could Kim find the necessary capital to make those investments that will save YMMSS and help tens of thousands of members live in financial security? From people who he has already helped to make a lot of money and who would trust their lives to his word.

I had never considered this, but I can see it as a definate possibility. Rather than just collecting his 25% on EPC purchases, collect up to 100% by offering an even better return through some of his secret direct investments and at the same time promise that it will help the exisiting pool. Some posts on the YMMSS boards have already expressed an interest in investing in these other super high return investments.

Many of the other doublers tried to survive by revamping, restructuring, etc. their system. I always thought that this would also happen with YMMSS. Possibly transforming itself into more of a direct sales/recruiting operation where an indviduals income is tied directly to their own efforts of sales of EPCs and or other products and services. Essentially, a standard MLM type of structure, dispite the fact that Kim claims YMMSS was created to avoid the MLM structure.

With the amount of reserves he has, his protection from authorities by being offshore, the core of worshipers, and his ability to con people, I have to believe that he will have many months if not years of continued profitable scamming ahead, unfortunately. He just needs to keep shifting the blame for the failures elsewhere, maintain the religious persona, and come up with a grand new, improved opportunity to sell.

[ycchen]

I think Salsa has a great point about Kim may or have already tried to "invite" his believers and followers (or simply early birds) to invest in his other schemes to recoup the money he paid to them in the beginning in exchange for their loyalty. The most scary part is that I believe his followers will take the baits partly because of greed, and partly because their trust and bond with Kim!

I have a question in response to Gringo's somehow pessimistic take on how YMMSS will end. Someone with legal knowledge might be able to help.

With the amount of reserves he has, his protection from authorities by being offshore, the core of worshipers, and his ability to con people, I have to believe that he will have many months if not years of continued profitable scamming ahead, unfortunately. He just needs to keep shifting the blame for the failures elsewhere, maintain the religious persona, and come up with a grand new, improved opportunity to sell.

Kim is still residing in the U.S., and most of his "customers" and followers are in the U.S.. It is obvious that YMMSS ponzi is targeting its U.S. customers/victims. I wonder if there is really nothing we can do legally? In fact, it does not really matter where Kim registered his "ponzi" because running an illegal ponzi does not need a registered company. Company registeration (in the U.S. or offshore) is just a common way to diguist an illegal ponzi scheme to look legitimate.

Beside, who knows if his registration offshore is real or not, right? I don't think it really matter for ponzi. As long as there are victims of YMMSS willing to stand out against the ponzi in the U.S., there is a good chance that YMMSS victims can take down YMMSS legally and send the scammer to jail. Well, that is just my speculation.

[Gringo]

I too would welcome someone familar with international law to comment on the feasibility of legal action. Usually the fastest, cheapest action against ponzi operations is by the state/fed government. Kim's company and servers are offshore. This really limits U.S. authority to shut him down. I doubt that the government of Belize would respond to a U.S. request unless there was some major publicity or the person involved was identified as a terrorist or drug trafficer. Kim's continued efforts to make the appearance of a legitimate advertising business camifloge the ponzi just enough that direct action by authorities in Belize could be stalled perhaps for years.

[ComplexKid]

There appears to be a new twist--maybe in addition to the one Salsa thought of.

The focus is still 'getting past November 18th' and to that end, people can now 'donate' any monies they'd have payable between now and the 'November 18th date' directly to the commissions payable account, instead of taking a commission for this cycle.

It's not looking real good, but the reaction on the YM forum has been positive as far as I can tell--that may not mean much, as a lot of folks don't post there, and negative posts tend to disappear quickly.

Here's the post:

“Pay It Forward” To Move Us All Forward
24 May 2005 - K-ADMIN
Last edited by K-ADMIN, 24 May 2005

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New Recurring Income Option will be available after processing Wednesday (5/25/2005)
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Hello!

New Recurring Income Option will be available after processing Wednesday (5/25/2005)

Several of our members have requested that we find a way to help our newer members by ending the rise in cycle times and move us faster towards the November 19, 2004 date. Many have stated that they would gladly forgo their commissions on many of their positions that they currently have in the YMMSS database that are due to be paid. This is a very proud moment for YMMSS as our members, our family, pull together to help our family members that may be in need.

First of all let me state that members in need of immediate payments on maturing positions should not feel any pressure to use this option.

The new “My Recurring Income” option is: “Recurring Income = EPCs/Commissions Payable”

*** This option will be available after processing on Wednesday (5/25/2005) ***

This is just another example of our YMMSS membership "Paying It Forward".

In order to select the "My Recurring Income = EPCs/Commissions Payable" option, you need to go to:

1. http://www.ymmss.org

2. Login by selecting “Affiliate Login” from the left side menu.

3. After reviewing the security announcement, at the bottom of the page, select: “Continue”.

4. Select “My YMMSS”.

5. Select “Upcoming EPC Commissions”.

6. The database will now be displayed with your positions in the database. In the column noted as “Income Option” you will note “(change) after the option you have chosen previously. With your left mouse button, click on the word “(change)” on the position that you want to change and then a popup will be displayed and you can change. 7. Select the pull-down arrow and you will be able to change that position to:

“Recurring Income = EPCs/Commissions Payable”

By selecting the “Recurring Income = EPCs/Commissions Payable” the following will take place when that position is due to cycle.

1 EPC position will drop down to the bottom and become a position with a new order number of 1 EPC and the $10 that would have been used to purchase you 1 additional EPCs (2 EPCs total) will stay in the Commissions Payable Account (CPA) to process the next position.

2 EPC position will drop down to the bottom and become a position with a new order number of 2 EPC and the $20 that would have been used to purchase you 2 additional EPCs (4 EPCs total) will stay in the Commissions Payable Account (CPA) to process the next position.

4 EPC position will drop down to the bottom and become a position with a new order number of 4 EPC and the $40 that would have been used to purchase you 4 additional EPCs (8 EPCs total) will stay in the Commissions Payable Account (CPA) to process the next position.

8 EPC position will drop down to the bottom and become a position with a new order number of 8 EPC and the $80 that would have been used to purchase you 8 additional EPCs (16 EPCs total) will stay in the Commissions Payable Account (CPA) to process the next position.

16 EPC position will drop down to the bottom and become a position with a new order number of 16 EPC and the $160 that would have been used to purchase you 16 additional EPCs (32 EPCs total) will stay in the Commissions Payable Account (CPA) to process the next position.

32 EPC position will drop down to the bottom of the database and will become a new position with a new order number of 32 EPC and the $320 that would have been sent to you will stay in the Commissions Payable Account (CPA) to process the next position.

This will help reduce pressure on the Commissions Payable as we complete the large purchase processing between now and November 19.

Depending on participation, I believe it can measurably shorten the time and help us get back on track at a time when we will have new server capability, a new payment system, new income streams and the beginning of our retail advertising business.

*** This option will be available after processing on Wednesday (5/25/2005) ***

Sincerely,

Kim

[Gringo]

Doubtful if there will be much interest by most in “Pay It Forward” since most members have never cycled once. Those that do choose to drop to the bottom are pretty much guaranting themselves that they will never see that money again come around for payment. The 11/18 processing is still months away, if ever. In terms of the end game, if 11/18 does ever arrive and CT doesn't reverse as everyone is pinning all their hopes on, I can't see YMMSS continuing much longer in their current form. New EPC purchases will have virtually dried up. Exisiting members funds will be tapped out and be totally skeptical. A few hard core followers will still be set to repurchase but that's about it.

[ycchen]

Anyone has any ideas of the EPCs sales recently? I bet there are newbies who are recruited/deceived by desperate members to donate their money at the bottom of this YMMSS. Sigh. :(

[danielmeyers]

The focus is still 'getting past November 18th' and to that end, people can now 'donate' any monies they'd have payable between now and the 'November 18th date' directly to the commissions payable account, instead of taking a commission for this cycle.

It's not looking real good, but the reaction on the YM forum has been positive as far as I can tell--that may not mean much, as a lot of folks don't post there, and negative posts tend to disappear quickly.

I think that these people are posting positively on the forum, hoping to convince others to give up commissions, so that they may themselves get paid. That's right, I think some of them are lying, saying that they are opting to "pay it forward", but really they are not.

Just like they convice others to join so that they themselves may be paid, knowing full well that those who join now will never be paid.

Daniel

[deadgrassdog]

I guess we will know if they are lying or not come Friday... I for one am not participating. Today's payout was the lowest it has ever been only $89,624. We may indeed be seeing the end on it's way. I am just hoping to get my $$ back but it doesn't look very good at this point. I have gone from a February pay out to a July pay out. :shake:

[Gringo]

Looks like the "pay it forward" solution has come and gone. CT up another 2 days for a total of 7 this week. More and more "anti-testimonials" from people in real hardship from over extending themselves finanically into this scam. Yet the true believers are anxiously awaiting the new servers to solve things. 30 days from now when there has been no improvement, I can't see much more interest and hope for any but a relatively small core of followers. Kim will need to start moving into a new phase to breath life into this dying deal. We should start to see end game start to be implemented.

[Salsa]

Thanks to all for your affirmation of this theory. After my "thunderclap," followed by writing that post, it took me almost a week to get up the guts to actually post it. I wanted to give myself every opportunity to check my premises. I still haven't found any fault in them, however, and my conviction of what's going down within YMMSS has only grown.
I have a question in response to Gringo's somehow pessimistic take on how YMMSS will end. Someone with legal knowledge might be able to help.

With the amount of reserves he has, his protection from authorities by being offshore, the core of worshipers, and his ability to con people, I have to believe that he will have many months if not years of continued profitable scamming ahead, unfortunately. He just needs to keep shifting the blame for the failures elsewhere, maintain the religious persona, and come up with a grand new, improved opportunity to sell.
Kim is still residing in the US, and most of his "customers" and followers are in the US. It is obvious that YMMSS ponzi is targeting its U.S. customers/victims. I wonder if there is really nothing we can do legally? In fact, it does not really matter where Kim registered his "ponzi" because running an illegal ponzi does not need a registered company. Company registeration (in the U.S. or offshore) is just a common way to diguist an illegal ponzi scheme to look legitimate.

Beside, who knows if his registration offshore is real or not, right? I don't think it really matter for ponzi. As long as there are victims of YMMSS willing to stand out against the ponzi in the U.S., there is a good chance that YMMSS victims can take down YMMSS legally and send the scammer to jail. Well, that is just my speculation.
I think that Gringo makes some good points that might increase Kim's longevity--but it surely won't be forever. As far as perpetuating the con, it seems that Kim is working his "outside investments" strategy from both ends, time-wise and dollar-wise. In the short term he's tossing in little teasers, like the $300K of two weeks ago, in order to maintain confidence. But even three or four months of those $3-6K monthly teasers will only have the cumulative effect slowing the nearly day-for-day rise in cycle times by a day or two. At the other end of the outside revenue time scale, however, he is dangling some very big carrots way out in the future.

After recently reading through highlights of the May 19 conference call at webactionguide.com (http://www.webactionguide.com/yummy/ymmss-latest-development.php), I couldn't help but notice that the only other "firm" outside revenue streams that have been set up are $3-5M weekly starting around March 2006--the return from a one year investment made in March 2005--and $19M weekly starting around July 2006--the return from a one and half year investment made in January 2005.

The clever thing about this strategy is that those investments won't have to be proven to anybody--members or co-investors--for another year. What's more, it begs the question from concerned members, "What are we going to do in the meantime?!" Could it be that Kim will mention to select members that he has some intermediate term "opportunities" in his pocket, just itching to be taken advantage of if only all of his own capital weren't invested elsewhere? It is so much easier for a con artist to find a victim if he can first set the stage for the victim to think the scheme is his idea. "Take my money! Take my money!" says the victim.

The pattern would be to first tap the deepest pockets for the longest term "investments". January, 2005, maturing in July, 2006, and March, 2005, maturing in March, 2006, are already done. For the current month it seems likely that he would be working on a scheme said to mature in maybe six months, etc.

As for the mysterious outside revenue that is already flowing into the commissions pool, like the recent $300K, Kim could easily justify dropping that much into the pool from his own pockets (or from part of others' outside investments). First, he got at least some of it directly back by collecting his 25% for any positions that repurchased instead of paid cash. Next, it gave enough of a moral boost for many members to actually continue purchasing and repurchasing. Plus, he'd already taken more than that out of the system in just the first twelve days of this month--bad as the month has been. Finally, it gave "proof" to his targeted "outside investment" victims that his outside investment strategies do work.

When will he disappear? I can't see him sticking around later than August. Sure, any member still around by next March would accept any excuse he gave for why the $2-5M a week didn't produce the planned return, but there won't be any reason for him to offer further excuses if he has long since tapped every victim available to the fullest. The August date is simply when my "working both ends" theory comes together. However, it could easily be sooner.

I really don't know what legal thin ice Kim may be currently standing on, but I think that he may be aware of some flaws in his plan. Ycchen pointed out that he is a US citizen, and YMMSS members like to mention that he has built a new house in Vincennes--giving at least the implied message that Kim is confident and here to stay. However, if it's even true, the house could easily be sacrificed, if needed, because the confidence that it alone gave to members has surely paid for it many times over.

It also appears that Kim doesn't much care for hanging out in the US anymore. A few weeks ago, when I first read the below message at ymhelp.com announcements page (http://www.ymhelp.com/?_a=announcements&_m=details&_i=86), I simply thought that it was getting harder and harder for Kim to face his public...
13 Mar 2005 - K-ADMIN
YMMSS Events

Dear YMMSS Members,

I have some news that is both good and bad in nature. It's good that it will be for aiding in the stability of YMMSS. It's bad, in that some members will be saddened by the end of an era, which has proven both enjoyable and beneficial to seasoned and new members alike. But there is a bigger picture to consider. So let me begin with the bad news first, as I prefer to save the good news for last.

The Regional and Local Meet & Greets must continue without my physical presence. Whenever I asked Mike Johnson to arrange our four corporate events each year, I really did not anticipate the Regional Meet & Greet events, being developed by other members, would be so many and so often. With more than one event being scheduled some months this year alone, it is becoming more and more difficult for me to; attend these events, keep my health and do the work I need to do. I owe it to you all and the YMMSS business to stay focused and keep working on the big picture, which is to get and keep the cycle times to 90 days or less.

Now the good news?

One of the great sources of income for the commission pool is the YMMSS Member Exclusive St. George Lodge on St. George Caye in Belize. My original thought when buying this lodge was that YMMSS members would come to Belize throughout the year to stay at the lodge and enjoy the quiet tropical paradise here. In the process of enjoying a wonderful vacation, they would also be generating more income for their YMMSS businesses since 100% of the profits generated at the Lodge go to the commission pool. This is just another great way members can contribute to keeping the cycle times down.

Whenever I look at the amount of money being spent on the Regional Meet & Greets , it forces me to see the inevitable is true. The Corporate Events attendance levels will be hurt because many members are unable to attend or afford both the "Corporate" events in Belize and the Regional Meet & Greets in any given quarter. What I asked Mike Johnson to arrange, through Mann Travel & Cruises, is 4 Corporate events each year so every member will have an opportunity to attend one of these events without worry of missing a chance to meet with other YMMSS members.

One event each quarter; IE; Three YMMSS "Business Conventions" in Belize and one YMMSS "Vacation Event" at a mutually acceptable location Internationally. Each year the vacation location will change so we can experience the wonderful vacation spots around the globe as the International Company we are. I would like to tell you all that I approve of the effort that Michael and Mann Travel & Cruises has demonstrated so far.

I trust that each of you will help me to stay focused on the big picture by realizing the large get-to-gathers should be restricted to the 4 Corporate Events each year. Now this does not mean that you should stop having business parties to introduce YMMSS to family and friends. What it does mean, is that I am requesting that you help to compliment the harmony of the YMMSS business focus by planning your major event with us in Belize, or Zurich or wherever Michael plans for us to meet on the YMMSS vacation voyage. If you would like to address a certain need or idea for these functions please contact Michael from the YMMSS travel page at:

http://silversleuth.com/travel.html.

Thank you for supporting YMMSS in this fashion.

Kim E. Inman
When I remembered this post the other day, however, I had another take on it. The only four YMMSS events a year that Kim is now planning to attend are all outside of the US. If Kim were to continue flying into US cities, I think he knows that it's just a matter of time before he is greeted by some nice men in blue suits with handcuffs for him. If this is true, where are the lawyers who understand what Kim knows?

Salsa

[Arzel]

I also think the location will be a way to limit the type of people able to make the meetings. The resort in Belize can only hold a handful of people anyway, but it also will most likely be limited to the few vetern members that have made a substantial amount of money. Most of the rank and file will be unable, for lack of finances, to attend.

Salsa, I think you are right about Kim probably not wanting to spend much time in the US.

[Gringo]

As each new fix results in another wave of disappointment the changes will need to be more dramatic. The "pay it forward" thing has failed, not to mention the auction, golf game, etc. Members are already clamoring for something else and people are putting forth more ideas. Once the new servers are up and that too has zero impact, Kim will need to implement more dramatic changes to keep control. The "let the system fix itself, since it is perfect" mentality is just not convincing most people anymore. Since there can be no long term "fix" for a ponzi, he will need to move away from this design if he truely wants to make this a sustainable long term business.

One other thought that occured to me is that it may be a blessing for him to get heat from the authorities. That way he can shut the failing Ponzi down and blame it on someone else, then come out with something in which income is tied to each individuals sales, exactly like Easy Chair Club did. Naturally he will retain all previous earnings in this scenario.

I think there is less of a chance for him to completely cut, run, and disappear given his ego and the fact that he now has the resources and skills to continue to convince others to part with their money.

[juanita40222]

I was a member of YMMSS. I joined after seeing a co-worker quit her high paying job here and retire on YMMSS income at only age 43. I saw one of her paychecks from YMMSS and was sold (over $900.00 per week). I joined as a retirement plan, as most YMMSSers are. Live and learn. I had never heard of a ponzi scheme before this. This guy Kim, has become almost a god in southern Indiana, that is to those who got in on his scheme at the beginning. The person who got me involved cashed out cds to do so, many thousands of dollars and she and her husband both have made many thousands of dollars. They are personal friends of this Kim guy. I spoke to him on the phone prior to joining as well. The guy is good. He makes you feel very secure, really quickly. I joined only with the promise from my friend that she would buy me out if ever I felt uncomfortable. Well, if the cycle time increasing by one day, every day, isn't enough to make all YMMSSers quit, I don't know what is. She did refund every dime I invested. I am lucky, but there are so many out there that just can't believe that they are being scammed and I am very very sad for them. They are nice hard working people who have cashed in retirement funds, cds, etc. and buying epcs. I check the forum "announcements" each day and what I see there is sickening. Elderly people just beginning to invest. They will NEVER get one dime back, NEVER. Kim Inman has to look into the mirror each and every day. I hope he can continue to respect the person looking back at him. YMMSSers CHECK THE FORUM PAGE EVERY DAY!!!!! YOU WILL SEE THAT THE PAYOUT TIME INCREASES DAY FOR DAY. PLEASE STOP INVESTING!!!!

[Arzel]

I was a member of YMMSS. I joined after seeing a co-worker quit her high paying job here and retire on YMMSS income at only age 43. I saw one of her paychecks from YMMSS and was sold (over $900.00 per week). I joined as a retirement plan, as most YMMSSers are. Live and learn. I had never heard of a ponzi scheme before this. This guy Kim, has become almost a god in southern Indiana, that is to those who got in on his scheme at the beginning. The person who got me involved cashed out cds to do so, many thousands of dollars and she and her husband both have made many thousands of dollars. They are personal friends of this Kim guy. I spoke to him on the phone prior to joining as well. The guy is good. He makes you feel very secure, really quickly. I joined only with the promise from my friend that she would buy me out if ever I felt uncomfortable. Well, if the cycle time increasing by one day, every day, isn't enough to make all YMMSSers quit, I don't know what is. She did refund every dime I invested. I am lucky, but there are so many out there that just can't believe that they are being scammed and I am very very sad for them. They are nice hard working people who have cashed in retirement funds, cds, etc. and buying epcs. I check the forum "announcements" each day and what I see there is sickening. Elderly people just beginning to invest. They will NEVER get one dime back, NEVER. Kim Inman has to look into the mirror each and every day. I hope he can continue to respect the person looking back at him. YMMSSers CHECK THE FORUM PAGE EVERY DAY!!!!! YOU WILL SEE THAT THE PAYOUT TIME INCREASES DAY FOR DAY. PLEASE STOP INVESTING!!!!

Such is the seduction of a well run scam. Early investors see huge returns which entices more and more investors. And once you buy into the scam it is very difficult to pull yourself out.

No one wants to feel like they made a mistake, so they look for things to make them believe things are going well. I liken it to a bad relationship. You only see what you want to see, and one of those things is that Kim is a nice person, or at least appears to be a nice person. Another thing is that people like to feel they belong to a group, which is one of the reasons cults are so dangerous. People lose sight of themselves and start serving to the will of another.

One of the things about the Ponzi is that it combines the aspects of a cult (revolving around a charismatic leader) and also promises a dream come true. The Ponzi for which the name is derived is the classic example, but one aspect people seem to forget is that many people continued to defend and believe in Charles Ponzi until the very bitter end.

[ycchen]

juanita40222, welcome to MatrixWatch and thanks so much for sharing. Your testimonial is very crucial, and sometime more convincing to YMMSS members than the "cold" mathematical explanation performed by the analysts on MW.

It is really sad to learn so many victims investing their dream and hope into this ponzi. Even for the early investors such as your friends, I wonder if they continue to make profit, or have already put all their money back to rescue it after they "discover" the inevictable escalating of payment to over 200+. Unfortunately, the cycle date will only get worst. Our new prediction is that it will be over 400+ as we approach the Nov. 29 2004 pay day.

For many of us, YMMSS payment escalating crisis is build-in. Kim design it and he is expecting and manage it from day 1.

Running a ponzi is about "fake crisis management". It is an art of persuation. The longer you manage the "fake crisis", the more money you will scam from the believers. I guess that is the reason why we call people like Kim "con artist" and not honest businessman.

Okay, we need more testimonials from YMMSS members. If you are tired of the "robbing Mary to pay Paul" game (READ: ponzi), please share your story on MatrixWatch. You will be shocked to find that you are not alone. Hopefully, your effort will save more innocent investor-turn-victims to stop donating to this ponzi.

[juanita40222]

Thank you for the warm welcome ycchen. I wish that I could still post to the forums on YMMSS, but that is not permissable. I could e-mail each of those posting to the forums, but they would either be offended OR so upset with the realization of how much money they have lost they might do something even worse. Then there is always my fear of repercussion from Kim himself for defamation. Any advice in this area would be appreciated. Obviously this man (Kim) is not afraid of the law. All he has to do is obscond to Belize to that dear little hotel of his. The friend I spoke of in my earlier posting sent pictures of one of their little outings in Belize. Looked like fun. I'm sure pictures were widely dispersed to increase membership in the "dream." The most unsettling part of this is that you cannot talk to the current members regarding their still being part of YMMSS, trying to convince them to get out. They defend Kim to the hilt. I WAS A YMMSSer. I LISTENED AND RESEARCHED. They won't and do not want to hear about it. Again, any advice on the idea of e-mailing members directly. Could I feel risk legal repercussions from Kim or the YMMSS Company?

[sisco50]

"Could I feel risk legal repercussions from Kim or the YMMSS Company?"

My best advice is to ask your attorney if you have any fears of repercussions. However, I don't see how Kim can give you grief if he is running a scam. It seems to me that he would prefer keeping a low profile under the circumstances and not try to create any waves.

[Arzel]

Thank you for the warm welcome ycchen. I wish that I could still post to the forums on YMMSS, but that is not permissable. I could e-mail each of those posting to the forums, but they would either be offended OR so upset with the realization of how much money they have lost they might do something even worse. Then there is always my fear of repercussion from Kim himself for defamation. Any advice in this area would be appreciated. Obviously this man (Kim) is not afraid of the law. All he has to do is obscond to Belize to that dear little hotel of his. The friend I spoke of in my earlier posting sent pictures of one of their little outings in Belize. Looked like fun. I'm sure pictures were widely dispersed to increase membership in the "dream." The most unsettling part of this is that you cannot talk to the current members regarding their still being part of YMMSS, trying to convince them to get out. They defend Kim to the hilt. I WAS A YMMSSer. I LISTENED AND RESEARCHED. They won't and do not want to hear about it. Again, any advice on the idea of e-mailing members directly. Could I feel risk legal repercussions from Kim or the YMMSS Company?

As a public forum you can state pretty much anything you want, so long as it is expressed as your personal opinion. So I can say "I think YMMSS is a Ponzi scheme" and not worry. Got to love that 1st amendment. Even if YMMSS were to go after someone for Libel they would have to prove that what was said was false, and that it negatively affected their business.

Since Kim and Co. have many times stated that the purchase of EPC's is not the primary reason for the company, but for creation of a safelist for which you are paid to read advertisement, me telling an existing YMMSS member to not invest in EPC's should not hurt the business. Unless of course the business is a Ponzi and it requires those sales of EPC's to stay in business. If the business really is the outside advertisers then anything we say here should have little effect.

Finally, I have done a lot of research into the workings of YMMSS I have made no statement which I do not believe it true. To really be Libelous you must make knowingly false statements without regard.

An area where one might run into an issue is my conference call transcripts. Ironically, by my including the statement word for word, including the ah's and um's, I cannot be accused of falsely stating what they said (which was also in a public forum, so up for grabs). However, by including those ah's and um's comments in passing were made by them to be more aware of their use of those words. :)

[Dreamer]

One reason why libel is never really prosecuted (so no need to fear) is there are some conditions that must be met.

1. The statement in question must be shown to be made as factual instead of opinion.

The problem is, factual arguments are usually backed on by data, or by sources considered to be factual, like news papers, news shows on tv, journals, etc. Of course, a statement of fact does not need to have factual evidence backed up to be considered fact. Today is June 3rd, I dont need any backup because it is true.

Now, if I say Kim is a conartist, is that fact or opinion? Its opinion. I did not back it up with any factual evidence. If I created a falsefied website saying he was involved in one scam after another that I cant back up, now that is libel.

2. Once libel is proved, it must be shown how it negatively affected his business, or whatever. Since we are talking about a "business" kim would have to come up with some data showing how this libel has negatively impacted his business.

3. Once that figure is shown, it must than be proven that it was ur comments and ur comments alone that affected his business. what about my commpents? What about the comments from scam.com or any of the other forums?

I'm sure u can post the most libel thing you can come up with and i doubt you will be successfully sued.