Get back on track

[concerned]

I think it is getting annoying that so many posts are getting off track. I spend my time responding to the posts only to read that all of the responses don't have anything to do with my well thought out responses. Get back on track.

I also noticed that there is a lot less activity lately. Are any of you Matrix Supporters still out there? There seems less people to debate with. Maybe they all decided that the matrix idea was wrong finally. The only ones I see still around is uwantme and tcb1969a. They used to be fun to debate with, but they seem to be the ones lately that take all of the threads into other directions. Anybody new out there that wants to try to debate the matrix supporters side? It is funny sometimes to see some of the lame ideas that they have about the legality of the matrix concept without a stitch of proof whatsoever.

[hurley9192]

BigStarr has shown up to stir up some sour feelings...:D

I think one of the things that's keeping me from logging on more often is that it's somewhat of a broken record in our arguments.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by concerned
I think it is getting annoying that so many posts are getting off track. I spend my time responding to the posts only to read that all of the responses don't have anything to do with my well thought out responses. Get back on track.

...They used to be fun to debate with, but they seem to be the ones lately that take all of the threads into other directions.

Taking threads off track is something that must be fixed. Perhaps some of the dedicated members could help to moderate the subject matter and encourage new threads for changes of subject. For example, a thread labeled "Illegal Lottery" gets diverted to the subject of why some forum out there closed down. If a person were looking for information on that closed forum, they would never find it because the discussion was under "Illegal Lottery". Like Concerned said, Get back on track.

I also understand what hurley meant by the broken record. Let's see if we can take an old subject just a little deeper this time around.

[mikv]

I guess there really is no further you can take "speculation"...Arguments for and against the matrix community have been exhausted due to the lack of foundation for most of them. You can't prove that a matrix is a ponzi or pyramid until there is a court ruling and you can't defend the matrix structure until then as well...As well I've noticed in other forums that matrix supporters aren't coming into this one because they fear the site they support will be shut down.

The legality of it all is the main basis for argument and without a ruling or something surfacing that shows iron clad either way, then the "broken record" will stay broken. The arguments against the matrix community are more like a "read the previous post" answer these days as everything has been drug out already and most just quote something that was said before. I hope it all picks up again as I enjoy reading different opinions and following the different debates as they unfold.

I'm working on a couple of juicy debates that I will share soon. I have to do some more research before I open to debate.

[concerned]

Originally posted by mikv
You can't prove that a matrix is a ponzi or pyramid until there is a court ruling and you can't defend the matrix structure until then as well...

mikv

I totally disagree with you on this point. We CAN prove that it is a ponzi scheme. Just do the math. The definition of a ponzi scheme is this:

You take money from new investors and use it to pay off earlier investors.

The matrix community is totally working on this principle. THERE IS YOUR PROOF.

What the courts need to do now, is go through all of the motions, look at the evidence, and make a determination based on the facts. It is basically a formality. Have you seen any actual proof that these are NOT ponzi schemes?

[concerned]

I guess I have to intercept any other comments here before it gets out of hand. I already know that the lawsuit states Illegal Lottery rather than Ponzi scheme. That is IRRELEVENT to my point. My point is that unless someone else can come up with hardcore proof, they will be known by most people as ponzi schemes.

[mikv]

Then how come nobody from this forum is taking sites one by one starting new lawsuits that are strictly based on the Ponzi Scheme scenario?? Like I said you can SPECULATE all you want til your fingers are black and blue, but without the ruling you are still speculating. If that is your proof, then I should see you trying to get people to help you with YOUR LAWSUIT against the "so called" Ponzi Schemes....As well if you CAN prove that, then why is watchdog's lawsuit based on an "illegal lottery" and not the "so called" Iron Clad Ponzi accusation?? Your killing me with your logic. I have done the math and yes I agree that the structure is doomed to failure, but if there was "really" that much proof that it is a Ponzi Scheme, them I'm sure watchdog's attorney would be changing the lawsuit to fit that because it would be easier to prove. Hypotheticals are not reality, and the proof isn't always in the pudding.

[poorme]

The lawsuit cover both but it lean more weight on "illegal lottery" ?

[concerned]

Actually according to Watchdog, it is easier to prove the illegal lottery.

[Arzel]

Under California statute Ponzi Schemes are considered an illegal lottery. The illegal lottery angle covers a lot more than just the ponzi aspect.

[mikv]

But if you read the history books on court cases related to these schemes, they must be proven to be one or the other. They don't just declare "it might be" and pass a judgement. As well there is not one case that I've read where someone was convicted of running a ponzi scheme and also got time added for the illegal lottery aspect and vice versa. They don't just group it together because the law carries "different" punishment depending on what it is declared. You have alot to learn about the Cali Court Systems.

[Arzel]

I admit I do not know a lot about how the CA court system works. But I did read the aspects of Illegal Lotteries, and saw that it covered a ponzi type scheme.

California Penal Code § 319 defines a "lottery" as follows:

Any scheme for disposal or distribution of property by chance, among persons who have paid or promised to pay valuable consideration for the chance of obtaining such property, upon such agreement, understanding, or expectation that it is to be distributed or disposed of by lot or chance, whether called a lottery, raffle, or gift enterprise, or by whatever name the same may be known.



Because EzExpo indicated had indicated that you would recieve your free gift IF you cycled, it can interpreted as chance, thus falling into the illegal lottery description. Because of the nature of a ponzi scheme, where by the only way to recieve your return on your investment is IF you reach the top of the list, ALL matrix schemes could be intrepreted as an illegal lottery.

Granted this is exactly what will be decided, and I make no claim that it will be such, but I can understand why Watchdog and his lawyer used this method. It is a much more straight forward approach then trying to prove that a given matrix is a ponzi scheme, and the laws regarding illegal lotteries are already well stated.

[concerned]

Originally posted by mikv
This thread ran completely OFF TRACK from the beginning. Isn't this why others were banned? These forums are losing more focus....Let's get back to the issues!

The above quote came from the "Where are the Pro's" thread.

I think that it is unfortunate that when Watchdog allowed some of these people back in, they would have been greatfull. Even after Watchdog warned them about the thread hijacking, and allowed them back in, all they did was continue to hijack threads. Sometimes the hijack starts off with:

"I didn't hijack this thread, I am just replying to another post."

At first I thought that we might get some good debates, but instead all we got was crap about the universe.

WILL SOMEONE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!!!

[Shelby]

Chance, doesn't exist on our site. Also it says when you cycle...
not if.

Case closed.

We win you loose.

Shelby

[concerned]

Originally posted by Shelby
Chance, doesn't exist on our site. Also it says when you cycle...
not if.

Case closed.

We win you loose.

Shelby

On a thread that is about getting all of the other threads back on track, and this guy comes in here and hijacks this thread. Real Smart!

[mikv]

exactly my point....An it's "we win, you LOSE"...NOT LOOSE. I'm still trying to find out where it says in any dictionary that the word LOOSE can be used instead of LOSE when speaking of something LOST. It's not LOOST, so it's not LOOSE. I know, off topic sooo.....

BACK to the thread, I agree with what you said Arzel, atlhough there is more to Penal Code 319 that strays from proving your point than backing it. That's the beauty of the Penal Codes, they are written as to be vague on some points and strong on others so the law can be manipulated on either side depending on the persons utilizing them.

[Shelby]

Apparently, this guy doesn't care about what thead is what...LOL

[CaktusJack]

It seems to me that shelby responded to a posted quote put up by Arzel. He should have the right to respond to anything that is included into a post. By this standard concerned you also have taken the thread off track by talking about shelby hijacking it. Lets get some debates from you guys. Neither side has proved anything yet. No matter who has put the argument up first neither side has ever proved beyond a doubt their point.

[concerned]

Originally posted by CaktusJack
It seems to me that shelby responded to a posted quote put up by Arzel. He should have the right to respond to anything that is included into a post. By this standard concerned you also have taken the thread off track by talking about shelby hijacking it. Lets get some debates from you guys. Neither side has proved anything yet. No matter who has put the argument up first neither side has ever proved beyond a doubt their point.

CactusJack, I welcome you to this forum as a new member. I think if you have read this thread, you will know that I started this thread. Read the first post, and you will see what this thread is about. I think I should know what this thread is about. Me talking about shelby hijacking this thread was an attempt to get this thread back on track, as the title suggests.

The purpose of this thread is to talk about getting the other threads back on track. A lot of the other threads keep losing their meaning, including this thread. As you continue to read the threads, you will see this trend. If you want to reply to a post, and the reply doesn't have anything to do with that post, then you are encouraged to start a new thread. I've done it several times.