movemeup.com

[spydrman]

I haven't heard many people talk about http://www.movemeup.com on here. How are they able to stay in business and not be affected by the lawsuit and everything else? I just logged onto their site just to see what payments they accept. They accept WorldPay, StormPay, and money orders. I've never heard of WorldPay before but they must accept matrix sites. I haven't heard many people complain about this site from the other forums. I wish I joined this site over ezexpo since this site is actually still shipping out cycled items and the owner seems to care more so than the other sites.

[Arzel]

Don't be fooled by appearances. Karen at movemeup has done a very good job at keeping the customers happy, but that does not change the fact that it is still a matrix site, and that it will eventually fail.

Because of her effort this site will probably last longer than most, if her merchant processors are not frozen. When I did my analysis last month I projected movemeup to be quite stable. This site will probably not see problems for a few more months. I originally put a crash date of 4 to 6 months out, and I think that is probably still on track. Even though people are still cycling much of the cycling is on the two new lists. Many of the old lists have not cycled people in several months, and those people are going to start getting impatient within the near future.

This site is going to have serious problems in 3 to 5 months, she can only open up so many new lists, eventually the only people that are going to join are those that have cycled in the past and the lists will crash.

[hello]

Well, movemeup is the BEST of all these crappy sites. Karen has great customer service, and when the list get stale, she closes them and offers everyone on the lists credits for the value of what they paid to use towards new lists. This makes people constantly cycle and she actually sends you something you can use, not like the other sites with their useless ebooks. The reason no one has anything bad to say about movemeup is because there isn't anything bad to say about them.

[Arzel]

Hello,

I agree with you that Karen has done a very good job at customer service, but closing and opening new lists will only work for so long. The mathmatical model behind matrix sites require an increasing number of members to remain stable. Karen is only delaying the inevitable.

[hello]

I agree that in the end the Matrix will eventually fail, but with Karen's ideas to close a list and reopen a list, with the option to either pay with money or site credits, helps everyone. You could be on a stale list at Move Me Up and before you know it, you are given site credits and boom you cycle on a new list. And the best part is that Karen ACTUALLY sends you your "free gift" when you cycle. There are no excuses and everyone is happy. Cycle lengths are getting shorter between 3 and 2 cycles on new lists, this by far beats the 20 cycles or even 50 cycles on other sites. Recently there were over 70 cycles on Move Me Up in the past 3 days on the new lists, that is AMAZING!! I think it is a new record on a Matrix site.

[poorme]

I agree with Azel. It may stay longer but eventually the doom day may come.

[mikv]

I have also been watching movemeup and I haven't seen any of the older lists move in months.
Of course the NEWER lists are gonna move because they are new.
Nobody wants to sit on a stagnant list and their practice of "musical lists" is not the remedy for a matrix site. Very soon they will start having problems as I know a couple of their customers who are getting very impatient. As well closing one list and opening another is not the way to handle a halted list.
That is a trend I am seeing across the board in the matrix community. Owners adding new lists and asking their customers to "change lists" is only reshuffling the cards, but they are still playing with a deck of all jokers. Personally I think the site looks too generic, you can tell there isn't much money behind the site and it's proven by the musical list game they play. If they had the proper funding, they would be able to put back into the lists so they wouldn't have to open a new list. As for the customer service part, great, so they have good customer service. What good is customer service when your business fails? Which is what is gonna happen because of the structure of the matrix. But hey at least the customers can feel happy cause there was a smile on the face of the person screwing them!

[poorme]

But hey at least the customers can feel happy cause there was a smile on the face of the person screwing them!

It is like someone kiss you and then follow with a slap in the face.

[hello]

Originally posted by poorme
But hey at least the customers can feel happy cause there was a smile on the face of the person screwing them!

It is like someone kiss you and then follow with a slap in the face.


That's interesting a kiss followed by a slap. I agree in many aspects, all I am saying is that at least Move Me Up tries to come up with ideas, however, you are right this can only last for so long and then before you know it, that site will have no other choice but to close down. It's really sad because Karen she is a great owner who actually cares about the people on her lists. When the time comes to close Move Me Up it will be the true end of the Matrix world.

[poorme]

If she really cares about the customer,
why she opens a matrix site?
Is her action contradict to her intention?

[hello]

To Poorme:

You would have to ask Karen why she opened the site. I can not answer that question for her. I can tell you that I am amazed at how well she handles it. She gives everyone a Customer Sumary page. You just book mark it and it refresh it to up date it, it is updated daily. Now on your Customer Sumary page it tells you everything, how much you spent, what matrix lists you are on, when you cycled, when you were notified, what you selected, when your cycled gift has been sent (standard time for her to release funds is 5 days after you cycle) how much money you made, how much you have credited, etc, etc, etc. This is beyond the call of being a great Matrix site owner. Try any other matrix site and you never know when your cycled gift is being sent, you never know anything. Karen does not hide anything from anyone. For this reason she is the best site out there and like I said before, when her site closes, that will definately be the true end of the matrix world.

[gota2loveit]

That is funny Azel movemeup is up now about 9 months now and she has been slowly getting rid of her old list and makeing new lists and it's a great idea that people that are on the old list can have credit to new list, I say that keeps things moveing:D It's funny the way people are they only see 1 side of things and are closed minded. But I guess with age you learn to keep a open mind. and I haven't read 1 bad post about her method.and as far as the law goes she sells a tangilbe item which means she doesn't have problems it's the sites that sell ebooks.Also I have read about the math part well alot of people's math is pretty bad. Because of the person she is she will use money from advertising to make people move most sites don't really do that.I say the day of her first year will still be talking to movemeup.THAT'S ABOUT 3 MONTHS

[Arzel]

gota2loveit,

Let me first say that I have nothing bad to say about Karen, but that does not change the fact that the matrix idea is flawed and her site is going to run into the same problems of every other site out there. If there is one thing that I have noticed, it is that the general feeling toward matrix sites and their owners, it is that it can change very quickly. Things may seem to be running smothley right now, but that could change very quickly, and I think it will in the near future. Also, my prediction date is from the end of October to the end of Decemeber.

[gota2loveit]

Azel

matrix idea is not flawed and her site is going to run into the some problems but it's not going to be the same problems, I have noticed new site owners and movemeup have learn from the lets say old timers, I know most new sites have gotton new cc. acounts that won't hold their accounts because it's states in them that if you pay you do so of your own choice and refunds will not be given. I have been around when ezexpo started and the only thing I see being a problem is alot of site don't sell tangible items. Advertising is will make money which inturn will make people move . But everybody new what they were geting into before they click that button and to a shot.and people even new before they signed up home many people were on the list they gambled in their mind. now some people feal they lost and going away mad.:rolleyes:

[Arzel]

No matrix site will ever be able to generate enough advertising money to cycle out lists. You have to generate approximately $10 in advertising for every dollar spent on a matrix list to cycle the list, and that is just not going to happen.

The flaw has nothing to do with the CC processor, the flaw is that the majority of customers will never get the free gift.

Having a tangible item will not matter if those buying the item are only buying it for entry into the matrix for a free gift. All the advertising for matrix sites that I have seen is for the free gift.

[gota2loveit]

I don't no how you come up those numbers but your wrong you might want to take some night classes. and if people are selling a tangible item then that is what they are buying and if their buying in for the free gift then that they know what they are doing. and so did eveybody who bought ebooks you took a chance and eather got your free gift of your waiting for your free gift or you couldn't wait and cried and went to watchdog.nobody can say they didn't know what was going on now if a site went down and you never got your tang. item they you have somthing to complain about. But all I see is alot of crying.:p HAVE A GREAT WEEK .

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by Arzel
No matrix site will ever be able to generate enough advertising money to cycle out lists. You have to generate approximately $10 in advertising for every dollar spent on a matrix list to cycle the list, and that is just not going to happen.


I for one know a little about simple math, but I (along with others) would like to see the formula in which you came up with this bogus $10 in advertising for every dollar spent on a matrix list. There are too many factors involved, but hey if you can show me a formula that makes sense, I am willing to take a look.

[hurley9192]

If you do the math, you will never get everyone to cycle, which in turn will cause you list to grow, even if you try and plow the profits back into the cycling.

There's no way that you can give someone a good deal to the point where they will sign up for the free gift.

For instance, if you have a 2 person matrix for the TV. You would have to purchase the TV's for less than the person if paying into the site to be able to cycle everyone. Advertising revenues are usually based on a per click basis and only the top sites make bank in advertising. Others just make enough to stay around.

So, with my example, say you are selling your so called valuable product that people are actually paying for. you have to pay for that and then the free gift. If you buy the TV's for $200 each, in order to cycle 2 people, you will have to spend at least $400 just buying the product. Then you have all your overhead costs, plus your time to keep the site going, shipping, etc. In order to cycle both people and not lose money you would have to bring in at a minimum $250 per person signed up. if you bought a TV for $200 wholesale, then it probably doesn't sell for much more than $300 in a store, and you could probably get the same TV on ebay or some online store for $250 or less because you can get most products online for wholesale cost. Thus, no one is going to pay in over $200 to your site and thus, not everyone will cycle.

But what do I know, I'm only a CPA. In order for you to cycle everyone through your profits, you have to buy things at a substantial discount under wholesale cost, which may be possible only if you steal it or buy it in huge volumes and the sites don't move fast enough to buy in that large of volume. It just doesn't work financially if you want to make a profit.

[concerned]

Originally posted by matrixfriendly
I for one know a little about simple math, but I (along with others) would like to see the formula in which you came up with this bogus $10 in advertising for every dollar spent on a matrix list. There are too many factors involved, but hey if you can show me a formula that makes sense, I am willing to take a look.

I think you might be right. The $10 MIGHT be bogus. It is probably more like $90. I didn't calculate that with any special equation. I SPECULATED it just like you SPECULATED that it might be bogus. The only real way to find out is to get movemeup.com's financial records. You would have to calculate all of her revenues and subtract out all of her costs. Then you will know how much advertising she would need. I bet it is a lot though.

[Arzel]

Chalk it down to a hazy memory. Check out the last paragraph in the Matrix Statistics Download. You have to be member to view this though. The actual amount is closer to $50 for every $1.

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by Arzel
No matrix site will ever be able to generate enough advertising money to cycle out lists. You have to generate approximately $10 in advertising for every dollar spent on a matrix list to cycle the list, and that is just not going to happen.

The flaw has nothing to do with the CC processor, the flaw is that the majority of customers will never get the free gift.

Having a tangible item will not matter if those buying the item are only buying it for entry into the matrix for a free gift. All the advertising for matrix sites that I have seen is for the free gift.

I do not know one matrix owner that states that every single person on the cycle list will 100% without a doubt cycle completely through the list and get the free gift. They state that if you cycle you will receive the free gift. If the person making the purchases on the sites do not read all the print right in front of them, it is not the site owners fault.

[Arzel]

It is nice to see a pro-matrix person point out the chance element of matrix sites.

quoted from matrixfriendly

I do not know one matrix owner that states that every single person on the cycle list will 100% without a doubt cycle completely through the list and get the free gift. They state that if you cycle you will receive the free gift. If the person making the purchases on the sites do not read all the print right in front of them, it is not the site owners fault.

[uwantme]

I am not a member of movemeup.com but with all the recent talk about them I decided to check out the site. One of the cardinal rule to making these matrix systems okay in a legal sense is that the item you are buying has to be worth the price you are paying for it without the "free" gift invovled as quoted in the MSNMBC news.

"Steven A. Richards, a lawyer who represents multi-level marketing companies for Grimes & Reese in Idaho Falls, Idaho, said there often aren’t clear legal tests for Ponzi schemes. But if the product sold has no value or very little value, and consumers wouldn’t buy it without the attached free gift, the scheme probably runs afoul of federal and state laws.
“Are people who are paying $100 really getting something of value in return for that $100, or is it some means to disguise the scheme, that’s the question,” Richards said."

If Im not mistaken karen sells items on her site like t-shirts, pens, cds: you can see some of them she offers at this link(http://www.movemeup.com/cdgrp1.htm), with the fact that she does rotate her lists or whatever to keep members cycling and to prevent them from becoming to long. I think movemeup.com falls on the legal side of the law and will probably be one of the sites that last.

Why dont we we all try targeting and focusing on some of the really bad sites who deserve our critizism, bad remarks, and their members may actually need your help and try to leave the good ones alone until at least after the court has ruled on the lawsuit...

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by uwantme
[B]One of the cardinal rule to making these matrix systems okay in a legal sense is that the item you are buying has to be worth the price you are paying for it without the "free" gift invovled as quoted in the MSNMBC news.

This is not the "cardinal rule" for making these matrix sites okay. You are quoting the old MSNBC article that was written in January. The new lawsuit is over the illegal lottery aspect, and the no one has answered my latest point in the most recent debate on this issue. (http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=304&perpage=10&pagenumber=1)

The issue that I look for from a site like movemeup.com is whether or not the owner allows entries into the matrix list for free without requiring the purchase of an ebook. If the site does not make this provision, then it will not last.



I think movemeup.com falls on the legal side of the law and will probably be one of the sites that last.

It does not matter if an owner provides ebooks, kitchen knives, t-shirts, or any other product. Even if the prize is WORTH the money that the person spends, it does not change the fact that they are REQUIRING the customer to purchase the product to get into the matrix. If you would like to debate this (illegal lottery) point, then follow the link I've provided.

[uwantme]

Arent you kinda hi-jacking this thread watchdog? Since it is about movemeup.com and I was just posting my opinion and outlook on the site. Then you busted in that you wanted a response to some other post of yours on a different thread and once again brought up the illegal lottery aspect which I dont believe I was talking about and this thread is not about the illegal lottery lawsuit you have it is about movemeup.com. If you notice I do not presume to much about the illegal lottery lawsuit you have. I truly think that debate on that is up in the air and I will just wait for the judges ruling on it.. Now lets talk about movemeup.com

[MatrixWatch]

No, I was responding to your point about movemeup's legality with information from another thread, but I was letting everyone know that I did not want to get into a deep debate about illegal lotteries here in this topic. I was attempting to prevent the subject from changing.

Sometimes a member (and myself) will say something that triggers someones emotions and they want to debate it. They, in turn, arouse other emotions and the topic is led off course. I am sensitive to the fact that many members here want to debate the whole illegal lottery and matrix legality thing. However, I think that we should be controlled and think about what it is exactly that we want to talk about and start new threads with that topic in the title.

Now, let's continue on with movemeup.com