YMMSS predictions

[Dreamer]

There are a few things I dont think that YMMSS members get.

Cycle times is not how many days you should cycle, but how many days ago they are working on. So, 10/23 is 224 days ago, or whatever the cycle time and the date working on. Why is that important? Because if you put even just $10 today, June 3rd, at the current rate it will take over 1000 days to cycle.

How do I get this number? You can either do a quick calculation, or you can probably do a more precise calculation. The quick is probably better because there are some outside sources coming in. However, those should be balanced out with people losing faith in ymmss.

If today there is a payout of 90million dollars, in order for ur position to double, the site will have to double, or be at 180million dollars before your position will double. The complex equation might include the percentage amount kim is taken out irregardless of the money coming in. The reason i word it that way because he takes out 25% on every purchase. However, running the numbers its about only 15% off of what is actually taking place. So, for the 90million to double, we could say that the site needs to pay out about 200million before you double. But, I'll use the double equation because they are claiming to get more money coming in, even though its insignificiant.

Next, you want to look at the average daily payout over a couple of weeks. The average, for simplicity sake is about $100k. Now its looking at about $75k, so I'd think $100k will be sufficient for any big income sources or major purchesing days. Of course, in a year, it might be down to $50k.

So, needing $90million at $100k/day will take about 900 days. But, because 10% is being taken out by kim on top of the money being put in, its about 1000 days for a purchase today to double. Thats a far cry from 90 days that they promise.

So, if you dont believe me, here are some predictions i made on another thread. Make your own predections. Show ymmss members that we actually know what were talking about because we dont listen to the hype but we approach this "business" logicially and realistically instead of unfounded faith like devotion.



Well, its June first. Where do we stand?

Cycle Time 223 days (off by 1 day)
Payout: $89million (underperformed by a million dollars according to my prediction)
Working on day 10/23. (I got something right)

That $47,000 payout has to be an all time low though i bet you.

May 4th quote
Quote:
My predictions at end of may:
Payout: 90million dollars
CT: 124 days EDITED: 224 DAYS. Oops!
Date working on: 10/23


July 1st Prediction:
Payout: 92million
CT: 250 days
Date working on: 10/26


November 19th calculation (or whenver ymmss is aiming for:


January 14, 2006
Paid out: $112million
CT: 412
Date working on: 11/29/2004 (There is no 11/19 actually! so, thats 11 free days)


Anybody else wanna make predictions for some certain milestone? What day will the CT be 365 days? 1000days? Christmas, or any other date they choose? Post here. If not, than at least im gonna waste my time killing boredome posing here :)

[surfer]

You're gonna be pretty close on your July
prediction Dreamer.

Just for clarification, this is for the totals
after processing is done on Friday, July 1?

Looks like after Friday, cycle time will be
at 250, but they will only be working on
10/24/04 purchases.

And I think they are going to underperform
by around $800K for you. ;)

Maybe Kim should hire you as his personal
prognosticator. lol lol We know he can't
give an accurate assessment of his own
business.

July 1st Prediction:
Payout: 92million
CT: 250 days
Date working on: 10/26

[Dreamer]

Hey surfer, or azreal, or anybody else that is involved, can somebody compile a list of events that happened in May, June, and what will happen in july?

I remember june started the auction, I think golf also, and the server? I'll hafta figure it out somehow.

but, these predictions are much more telling on the hype they want you to believe. remember how the new server was going to change the world? Nothing, except problems. The auction is a joke. The golf game they are constantly pitching hasnt helped money overall. Even that mysterious $300k donation didnt have an impact. Speaking of which, where that money came from, why is that such a big secret?

Now all of these things were supposed to have such a positive impact on CT, but, it looks like no impact.

kimmy was supposed to get advertisers to spend money with him, but he hasnt found a single person yet, even at the $200 he was asking.

How can anybody believe that he will have 9.5million, or whatever it is, coming in in the magical 18 months, or whatever it is?

[surfer]

Hmmmm, lets see:

Beginning of April, Kim Inman and company
show how hard they are working for all of
their affiliates by throwing up a bunch of
LinkShare affiliate banners with no warning.

This leads to affiliates thinking that companies
like Wal-Mart, Target, etc. were actually
paying YMMSS to run ads. :rolleyes:

At last report, these banners have generated
less than $1K in commissions each of their
first two months.

Beginning of May, YMMSS webmaster Dave
fights through illness to launch what is
proclaimed to be weeks worth of effort.
YMAuctions is born. Several weeks worth
of effort looks no different than the point
and click setup of phpauction software
included with many hosting accounts.

Almost 2 months later, there are currently
1834 registered and a whopping 87 active
auctions going. Members are being
encouraged to register just to pad the
stats and make things look better.

Reportedly, Ebay is not yet concerned
about this new competitor.

May 16, 2005: The first substantial
outside revenue stream is allegedly
placed into the CPA. $300K that will
come in each month for an unspecified
period of time.

May 25, 2005: Members are given the
option of foregoing their commissions
using the newly created PIF feature.
This is intended to help get to the
much hyped November 18/19, 2004
purchase days.

This option simply drops positions to
the bottom of the matrix without
doubling them, paying out only 3%
sponsor commissions on the original
value.

Kim Inman still rakes in 25% of all
positions that aren't PIFed, so only
the affiliates' incomes are sacrificed.

May 26, 2005: AT&T finishes their end
of the server situation, turning things
over to the ever capable hands of
YMMSS staff and admin.

Affiliates are told that there will be
much testing before the servers are
officially brought online in order to
avoid any glitches. lol

Early June, YMMSS introduces long time
YMMSS member Mike Hamilton as the
new "Global Director of Sales and Marketing".
Mike is allegedly leaving a multi-billion
dollar company to pursue this new venture,
bringing with him hordes of contacts in
the advertising industry.

June 11, 2005: YMMSS celebrates it's
third anniversary. Some members are
happy to give Kim Inman even more
money to show their appreciation.

June 13, 2005: Servers are almost launched.

June 17, 2005: Servers are officially
launched after nearly 3 weeks of "testing"
to avoid problems and glitches.

This extensive testing fails to eliminate
glitches and problems. YMMSS does not
process again until one week later.

Server situation is still not worked out.
It is possibly being blamed on MicroSoft
issues this time.

June 23, 2005: On conference call, Kim
confirms that they closed a deal with
NECC long distance and wireless service
which will pay them 12% commissions.

Of course, if Kim Inman was paying any
attention whatsoever, he would probably
just push YMMSS' Cognigen Networks
site.

The long distance rates are much
better than NECC and commissions are
on a scale of 6% to 18%, depending on
sales volume. They also offer a much
wider array of products and services.

Looks like NECC wireless is simply a
reseller using the Verizon Wireless
network with less attractive plans
than consumers could get direct
from the carrier.

By the end of June, affiliates are
supposed to have the survey that
Mike Hamilton was to come up with.

Perhaps the exciting news in July
will be the launch of what will have
to be the largest advertising firm in the
world if they expect to meet payroll. :head:

[Dreamer]

After a post I'm ashamed to be even tracking ymmss lately...awsome job.

There are a few other things that happened. The golf game. I havent heard of that bringing in any money. You can also support ymmss by wearing their logos.

These are all the significient things that should have cut the CT down in half if you believe kimmy (ok, he never claimed that). But yet, what has it done? Actually caused CT to increase more than it should.

Now, June saw a completion of 4 solid days. However, before June (I'll do better calculations on July 1st update) the average payout was $100k. For June it looks like its down to $70k/day.

[Train]

Thank you for the summary surfer. Speaking of 3 year anniversary, did anyone get a YMMSS postcard in the mail advertising www.ymmss.org/celebrate? I wonder how much all those postcards cost YM admin.

[surfer]

Dreamer, "YMGolf" was launched in late April.

The postcards weren't bad looking and wouldn't
have been all that expensive to print and send
out.

They had to try something to generate some
excitement.

[Salsa]

Great summary, surfer, but I do have a question about this:

Kim Inman still rakes in 25% of all positions that aren't PIFed, so only the affiliates' incomes are sacrificed.It seems like Kim shouldn't get 25% on PIF, as you said, and it is has been implied that he doesn't, but I haven't seen that spelled out clearly. The announcement of PIF (http://www.ymhelp.com/?_a=announcements&_m=details&_i=117) has a very detailed explanation, but not a crystal clear one:1 EPC position will drop down to the bottom and become a position with a new order number of 1 EPC and the $10 that would have been used to purchase you 1 additional EPCs (2 EPCs total) will stay in the Commissions Payable Account (CPA) to process the next position.The part that isn't clear to me is that it isn't the same EPC that "will drop down to the bottom," but a new EPC, and it's been my understanding that "administration" gets 25% of all new EPCs. Because the announcement doesn't specifically say that "administration" won't take its cut in this case, I might suspect that it actually does--not that I have any reason to suspect Kim of blurring the truth.

I could easily interpret this explanation of PIF as, "When you choose to PIF, instead of getting two EPCs when you cycle, you'll only get one--and the other will go to someone else." If it were worded like that, clearly, "administration" would get its 25%.

Maybe you've seen it spelled out more clearly on the "inside." (?)

Salsa

[surfer]

Maybe you've seen it spelled out more clearly on the "inside." (?)

Yes, I have.

Of course, more clearly does not necessarily
mean more accurately or truthful. ;)

Kim has said he is not taking his 25% on the
PIF positions.

This even resulted in a thread praising him for
the sacrifice that he is making, LOL. :head:

[concerned]

This even resulted in a thread praising him for
the sacrifice that he is making, LOL. :head:

Wow, big sacrafice.

[swishnev]

The guy has to be struggling. I mean, he's going to what australia, england, was just in indiana, etc.....

[swishnev]

I just listened to the last conference call and I guess in a previous call Kim had said there would be 2 more cycles before the end of the year. the question was whether or not this would still happen? he said that it certainly would happen if people would stop sitting on their hands and that it is their responsibility to make things happen and not just him

[swishnev]

he also just said he had "no clue" as to how long it would take to get to the nov. 18th date. i'm just sitting here in amazement listening to this guy talk and hearing how much he doesn't know. i think all the questions i was asking before wasn't that the answers were "confidential", it was that they just didn't know the answers.

[concerned]

he said that it certainly would happen if people would stop sitting on their hands and that it is their responsibility to make things happen and not just him

That is the classic sign of a ponzi scheme. Once the owner tells the customers to do the work and advertise, it is the proof that it is a ponzi. Can you imagine the investors of the stock market having to help the companies they invest in meet production levels?

[swishnev]

also just said he had people working 36 hours a day to fix problems.

[swishnev]

this is hilarious, this question about the survey and whether its mandatory. kim says its not required for membership, but not completing survey could cause your membership to be deactivated. if you want to earn commissions, you are required to take the survey

[surfer]

That's just one of many indicators of a ponzi.

People are recruited into YMMSS on the premise
that they don't have to do any recruiting, they
don't have any monthly spending committment,
and they don't have to do any sales.

Now, members are being told to recruit more,
even if they have to pay people into the
ponzi with their own money.

They are being told that one of the main
reasons the cycle time is rising is because
they aren't buying enough.

And Kim keeps mentioning that one way
they can make some money while waiting
to cycle is by retailing their EPCs. He
just doesn't mention the fact that the
company sells Gold Ads to "retail"
customers for 33% less than affiliates
pay wholesale. Nor does he seem to
care to notice that EPCs are being
dumped for pennies on the dollar because
they are practically worthless to the
average person.

They just have to read their ads for
30 minutes per week and they get
paid double their EPC purchases
from a system "designed" to cycle
every 60-90 days.

What a crock.

[swishnev]

just said that members are doing a good job with their statistical evaluations of ymmss based on the information given to members. the entire time i was involved i was told it was wrong to do so and that it was a bad idea

[swishnev]

he's like the soup nazi on seinfeld, "no ymmss for you!"

[drzod]

Too bad Alan is not still around so he can answer for his "fearless leader" who has no idea when he will get to the magical 11/18 date. Remember, this is same guy who stated that cycle times would max out at 150-160 days (conveniently that post on the ymhelp announcement page has been removed). How would you feel if the CEO if the company you work for said that he/she had no idea how to meet earnings for the year, but go head and invest in the company anyway because of his/her vision? So now a simple question - what would you do?

[drzod]

I almost forgot. In my conversation with him on the phone in early June, I actually got one truth out of him. He stated that cycle times would continue to increase if the commission’s payable amount exceeded the funds coming into the CPA. I had to throw in one seemingly positive remark so that everyone does not think that I only focus on the negative and revenge.

[swishnev]

right, well that's a math fact. you can't pay out more than you bring in.

[concerned]

also just said he had people working 36 hours a day to fix problems.

The days must follow a different time schedule in Belize.

[MongoMongo]

I am sooooo very thankful I found this site!! I was considering joining YMMSS and now, nooooo way!! Haven't bought any epc's, and I'm not going to!!!

[surfer]

Welcome to MatrixWatch MongoMongo.

It would be interesting to know why you were
considering joining and how it was pitched to
you.

What were you told to expect about income,
ad results, etc.?

[surfer]

Would also like to know how you found MatrixWatch? :D

[Dreamer]

If kimmy is being bothered so much by the question of when get to nov 18, he can use my prediction of january 14th.

But, I think they are going to try to push it so it happens by nov 18th, cuz I dont see the CT going past 1 year would be a good thing.

[Salsa]

I am sooooo very thankful I found this site!! I was considering joining YMMSS and now, nooooo way!! Haven't bought any epc's, and I'm not going to!!! :applause: :applause: :applause: Welcome MongoMong :applause: :applause: :applause:

Getting a post like that every now and then really makes my day.

also just said he had people working 36 hours a day to fix problems.With this move alone, Kim has reduced cycle times to 165 days. Why stop there?

My prediction:

There is no stopping YMMSS!
In yet another brilliant move Kim Inman will simply redefine
a "day" as 72 hours and:

Cycle times instantly drop to 83 days!

...and each time CT approaches 90 again, he will simply redefine the length of a day! Kim will again be able to guarantee 90 day cycle times.

Salsa

[MongoMongo]

Thanx for the hey. A bus driver told me about it. He said that he was involved in other ones that turned out to be scams. He said YMMSS was the best one. He's pouring his money into it. I was only going to invest $10-60. It sure does have shiny wrappings! Make $$$!! The bus driver told me that my money will cycle and if I left it in there for a few years, I would have enough money that I wouldn't know what do with it. He said that I just have to visit the web site and click on advertisements weekly. He also told me to check out Brixdale.com, which is inverse mortgages. Has anyone ever heard of that one?

[MongoMongo]

How I found MatrixWatch is that I googled ymmss or emoneynews. Can't remember which one. MatrixWatch came up in the sidebar of sponsored links! I clicked it on to see what it was and here I am!! I went back and it wasn't there! Where'd it go??? But, if you google emoneynews or ymmss-still can't remember-MatrixWatch comes up on the first page of the search.

[surfer]

Probably emoneynews as MW is listed second in
Google at the moment.

This bus driver may already be aware of this
site, but if you're going to be in touch with
him again, you may want to point him here.

Of course, there is no sense in arguing if
he goes into the typical "negative people"
mumbo jumbo.

There are no threads in here on Brixdale,
but they are simply charging you to do
something you could do on your own and
adding a comp plan to it. I haven't
researched it that much.

As with all MLM type recruiting structures,
the vast majority will fail with the biz opp
side of it.

There's one 34 page thread at scam.com
and a number of other threads relating to
it as well.

[concerned]

A bus driver told me about it. He said that he was involved in other ones that turned out to be scams. He said YMMSS was the best one. He's pouring his money into it.

Sorry for being so blunt, but it is my nature. Maybe that is why he is a busdriver and not a stock broker.

[Gringo]

Sorry for being so blunt, but it is my nature. Maybe that is why he is a busdriver and not a stock broker.

Maybe, but then again scams seem to suck in people of all levels of education and employment. You'd think that someone with an MBA would know better, but supposedly the new EPC salesman has one. Scams usually grab your emotions--fear, greed, etc. and when that happens your rational thinking goes out the window.

[concerned]

Maybe, but then again scams seem to suck in people of all levels of education and employment. You'd think that someone with an MBA would know better, but supposedly the new EPC salesman has one. Scams usually grab your emotions--fear, greed, etc. and when that happens your rational thinking goes out the window.

You are right on this one, but I know I wouldn't take investment advice from a busdriver. Good thing this person did research. Anyway getting to the EPC salesman, I just have this to say. I wouldn't take a job with an MBA selling $10 pieces of crap. Why do you need an MBA. Also, we all know scam owners can never tell the truth, so does anyone believe that an MBA is on staff? Maybe MBA stands for Matrix Bully Association.

[Gringo]

I wouldn't take a job with an MBA selling $10 pieces of crap. This puzzles me also. I can only guess that he is retired or semi-retired and has nothing to loose by working as an EPC salesman if Kim gives him a little salary each month. Either that, or Kim is paying him a large salary to get him to leave a job he already wanted to leave. In either case, looks like one of his first actions was to set up a commission to get others to bring him the sales.

Anyway he won't really have to do much selling since no company of any size will even give him an appointment when they find out he is selling ad space on a paid to read website.

[Dreamer]

Are you guys talking about Michael hamilton, who has been with ymmss since 2003 and has stated to be making $320 every other day?

Sure I question his credentials. He probably paid for his degree thru email. However, just remember, that he has much to benefit from this scam since he is a part of it. It would have impressed me more if kimmy bought in somebody from the outside who knows nothing about his business so the perosn would have a fresh idea of whats going on.

[swishnev]

anyone know how much was processed today and what ct's are now?

[surfer]

Nope, hasn't been updated yet.

It looks like they only did a little over 100
positions again today, so the totals may
be similar to Monday's.

Most likely cycle times will be at 249, going
up another two days.

If so, that's another two weeks spent paying
one day. :rolleyes:

[swishnev]

thanks for the update, things don't look so good

[concerned]

If it continues to take 2 weeks to pay down 1 day, it will take people that are at the 249 days to cycle stage today at least 8.8 years to cycle.

[Gringo]

anyone know how much was processed today and what ct's are now?

91009165.28
Average Cycle Days: 249

Processed since Mon: $43421--a pathetic $21K average for the last 2 days.

[Shoes]

From this forum:

Operation Costs:
$550.00
Amount Donated So Far:
$348.08
Amount Still Needed:
$201.92



Gringo says

Processed since Mon: $43421--a pathetic $21K average for the last 2 days.
Reply With Quote


Put's it perspective doesn't it?

[Gringo]

Put's it perspective doesn't it?

Meaning what? That this is a low budget site funded by donations, and YMMSS is a high dollar money turning ponzi?

[Train]

Meaning what? That this is a low budget site funded by donations, and YMMSS is a high dollar money turning ponzi?

Haha yeah I don't understand what he means either. I don't remember Matrixwatch promising to double my money every 90 days. :crazy:

[concerned]

From this forum:

Operation Costs:
$550.00
Amount Donated So Far:
$348.08
Amount Still Needed:
$201.92



Gringo says



Put's it perspective doesn't it?

Hey Shoes, how many people lost their shirts on this site?

Actually it does put it in perspective. $550 is all we need to run a site. When a site is taking in hundreds of thousands of dollars, and can't keep the site running, it is quite patheic. They need new servers, and new software, and new this and new that. We operate just fine with much less. So, you are right, it does put it in perspective.

[Arzel]

From this forum:

Operation Costs:
$550.00
Amount Donated So Far:
$348.08
Amount Still Needed:
$201.92



Gringo says



Put's it perspective doesn't it?

I am not sure what point you are trying to make, but here is another perspective.

Kim and YMMSS take money from members promising them future finacial freedom, only to provide them future debt, and yet you have tons of people praising him for his work.

Yet we here at MW volunteer our own time and money to try and help people break free of these scams and what we recieve is mostly flak and anger from many of the people we are trying to help. Perhaps one day in the future you will appreciate what we, and other sites like ours, are doing to help people identify and steer clear of these scams. I already know that some people do, and that makes it worth every second and dollar I have spent to support this site.

[surfer]

Sorry Shoes,

YMMSS needed to "pay" out closer to
$1 million today just to keep the cycle
times from going up.

So, yeah, $43K is very pathetic.

[Salsa]

From this forum:

Operation Costs:
$550.00
Amount Donated So Far:
$348.08
Amount Still Needed:
$201.92

Put's it perspective doesn't it?
Yes it does put it in perspective. This site's operating costs for 2005 are 63% paid for, while the year is only 50% over.

This site doesn't owe anybody anything.

YMMSS owes it's members hundreds of millions of dollars that it promised to pay but hasn't and can't.

That's the difference between a responsible organization and a criminal operation.

Thanks for pointing it out,
Salsa

[Dreamer]

Im not even entirely sure what perspective that has to do with making predictions regarding ymmss?

[Shoes]

Salsa

That's the difference between a responsible organization and a criminal operation.

Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?

Imagine calling people that you dont know, criminals ? I would like to see this ymmss business discussed in gentlemanly manner. This type of thing makes this discussion no more than trash.

Are there no restrictions on what is said in here to prevent inflammatory remarks? Surely we are here to discuss the logistics and dynamics of these type of business's without referring to people as criminals.

Where is the admin for this site? Is there no monitoring here at all?

[jokach]

Where is the admin for this site? Is there no monitoring here at all?


There is a great deal of monitoring and moderation, and i'm not taking this thread off-topic to discuss it with you. Each person has their own right to make their opinion known at matrixwatch, we don't censor that. If you dispute what the other person states, then make your argument in return, but don't get personal and insult people in the process. That is the type of stuff that gets moderated. PM me if you want to discuss this more.

jokach
(admin)

[surfer]

Back on topic. ;)

July 1st Prediction:
Payout: 92million
CT: 250 days
Date working on: 10/26


Actual stats.
Payout: 91,130,071.28(underperformed by $870K)
CT: 250 days
Date working on: 10/24. Dreamer needs
to pay better attention. When you get
the cycle times right, you should also
have the date working on date right.

Good guesses Dreamer. :applause:

Is there an August 1 prediction in your
future? :D

[Dreamer]

I'm not sure if any graphs were done on this...I know some great graphs were posted, so if one wasnt made, i'll figure out how to make it. But, its interesting.

Since October of last year, every fourth month seems to have some kind of kicker to it, and the next 2 months after that the percentage change drops down.

Changes in Daily Payouts: (starting 10/5/2004)
158% - 143% - 71%
112% - 91% - 67%
111% - 69% - 59%

Now, from Month 1- Month 2 -
90% - 80% - 62%

According to just guess work, this month should be 35% of last month. Last month the average daily payout was $70,000. According to the trends, this month should be $24,500 dollars.

Looking back from 6/24 - 7/1The average is $32,000. So, maybe $24,500 a day is not that far off. 10/24-10/27 did not have any big money days, so there wont be much reinvesting. However, $24,500 still seems low. I'm going to be consertative again and predict an average daily payout of $50,000

August 1st Prediction:
Payout: 92.7million
CT: 279days
Date working on: 10/27

[Gringo]

Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?

As in the form of a wager? It's been offered here and other sites before. Just give us a date when you predict the CT will drop and you'll get plenty of takers, since we all know that CT will go up as a virtual mathmatical certaincy.
Imagine calling people that you dont know, criminals ?
Someone is a criminal when they commit a crime. Please explain how promising to pay investors in 60 - 90 days, pulling the funds out of your own pocket if necessary as Kim did, then reneging on that promise is not crimminal. Please explain how continuing to solicit funds from people with the representation that someday they will be doubled in a 60 - 90 day period when there is clearly no way this can happen, is not criminal.

[Shoes]

Please explain how continuing to solicit funds from people with the representation that someday they will be doubled in a 60 - 90 day period when there is clearly no way this can happen, is not criminal.

It worked for 2 and a half years - and will again.

Your definition of a criminal, is criminal.

Criminals take away childhoods, lives etc - not try and better peoples lives.

[surfer]

It worked for 2 and a half years - and will again.
Most ponzis do work for a while.

You and all other supporters say it will work
again, but not one person can say how.

The reason cycle times are rising is because
it was 100% ponzi scheme for it's first 2 1/2
years. After a ponzi gets to a certain size,
not enough money can be brought in to meet
payout demands.

You've seen the question asked numerous
times on your own YMForums as to why cycle
times didn't go down during all those record
breaking purchase days back in November and
December.

Going by $$$ per day average, November was
YMMSS' biggest month ever and October was
#2. Cycle times barely held on at 90 days.

December was the third biggest month and
cycle times still went up 8 days.

The answer was simple. Every cycle has to
increase exponentially over the last just to
maintain a consistent cycle time. This can't
be done long term. That has already been
proven and it has very little to do with any
"technical glitches".

Even if Kim were actually able to bring in the
$16-$19M/week he claims is coming next
summer, it would have to increase every 90 days.

They would never be able to keep up with the
ever increasing payroll demand.

YMMSS has been a very well run ponzi. We've
commented on that many times.


Criminals take away childhoods, lives etc
Exactly. And when YMMSS fails, many
people will have lost their life saving, pensions,
etc. Lives will be ruined and some lives may
end. :weep:

Kim is 100% lying when he says YMMSS
was designed to work in a 60-90 day cycle
time. It is a "you'll get paid when we get the
money" design, whether it's 90 days or 90
years.

Just as we do, you will think whatever you
want to think.

But there are no "negative" intentions or mean
spirited ill-will here at MatrixWatch.

Most of us have a genuine concern for the
well-being of people we believe are being set
up as victims.

You disagree, but you have no proof to back
up your beliefs. Everything is based on the
word of a man who has lied to and misled people.

MatrixWatch has a proven track record of
calling a spade a spade and being accurate.

Good luck Shoes.

[ycchen]

August 1st Prediction:
Payout: 92.7million
CT: 279days
Date working on: 10/27

Dreamer has been quite accurate in his prediction so far, let see if he is correct this time.

Surfer, Salsa .. another alternative numbers you want to share with us?

[Dreamer]

Since everybody else is off track, I might as well get off track too.

I dont think there is anybody here, including surfer, azrel, ychen, or all the other various members that have been participating in ymmss threads wants ymmss to fail.

The thing is, there is alot of good honest people that have put too much money into the system, that have mortgaged their home, etc. The reason why we are so vocal here is because we do not want other people to put money into a con.

I hope kimmy proves us all wrong. I hope the money rolls in and makes everybody rich. But, if advertising is really the purpose of this "business" he does not need more members to be brought in. So, my purpose is to help people realize the truth, or my version of it. And, if microsoft decises that ymmss is the best way to spend their entire advertising budget, than all those that we help prevent spend their money can spend it after the advertisers come on board.

What does anybody have to lose by waiting until kimmy proves himself? A couple cycles. However, when microsoft comes on board with their billion dollar advertiser budget, than wld be the time to sell the house, the car, the wife and the children and put it all in ymmss.

[Dreamer]

estos prediction, from page 7/54 of his silly "success" thing.


We would double about three to four times annually: 7000 -- 14000 -- 28000 -- 56000 -- 112,000.

Thus, we might be welcoming that 100,000th member toward the end of 2005. Sooner if the factors noted all kick in a good way.

Retail ad income would start kicking in seriously during 2005.

We would become a $10 billion company about the time YMMSS celebrates its fourth anniversary.

I'm pulling for you man

[YMforever]

You guys just go bashing everything about YM. I will continue to buy epcs, and eventually be rich and smiling in your face....

Cheerio

[Dreamer]

Welcome to the forum,

Would you like to make a prediction regarding ymms? Maybe when the CT will drop below 250 days? When it will be down to 90days? Or something more current (since neither of those will happen) what date will be celebrating the CT being 365 days? Or, even 365 + 90 days?

Any prediction you want to make is fine. Just remember, if you buy a $320 epc today, the old prediction was about 3 years that you will cycle 1 time. The new prediction is probably closer to 10 years.

I hope one day you do become rich off of ymmss. Because if the retail site kicks in and makes everybody rich, I will jump in with all my savings and i'll be rich also, so while ur smiling at me, I'll be smiling right back at you knowing that not only am I also rich, but I didnt risk any money when the system was crashing.

[YMforever]

Welcome to the forum,

Would you like to make a prediction regarding ymms? Maybe when the CT will drop below 250 days? When it will be down to 90days? Or something more current (since neither of those will happen) what date will be celebrating the CT being 365 days? Or, even 365 + 90 days?

Nope. CTs are irrelevant if you have enough positions, and it is my business plan.


I hope one day you do become rich off of ymmss.


I will.


Because if the retail site kicks in and makes everybody rich, I will jump in with all my savings and i'll be rich also, so while ur smiling at me, I'll be smiling right back at you knowing that not only am I also rich, but I didnt risk any money when the system was crashing.

I do not risk any money, because if you've read the Agreement you shouldn't do that. Get rich quick is still in your mind pal. Some of us just don't operate that way. Sorry.

Cherio

[Dreamer]

90 days is pretty quick to double your money, no? How many cycles will you cycle before it gets down to 90 days, assuming it does. Maybe 2 times. So, I'm not losing much by waiting for kimmy to prove himself.

[Shoes]

Kim is endeavouring to get back under 90 days a soon as it is possible. Why would any affiliate want to make a prediction? That is the problem with this forum - all predictions and guessing.

You also label and align YMMSS with every negative experience on the internet - not giving the company the benefit of the doubt. You all go on about people suffering because of YMMSS and yet the company was created to help those suffering from internet biz-opps. KIm is still helping memebrs behind the scenes and asks for privacy and no publicity - as a good and honest man would.

I will be meeting with Kim soon (for the first time - although I spoke to him many times at the Thursday conferences) and I will come back to this forum and give an honest appraisal.

Also, if we can get back to 90 days before the end of the year, I will sponsor all of you into YMMSS and pay your affiliate fee and buy 1 EPC.

I am a fairly early YMMSS and have taken a little money out. Early members get accused of all sorts of selfishness and greed and yet I would do whatever I could to help anyone. It wasn't YMMSS that made me this way but it is the overwhelming spirit of the company. That is why PIF is happening and commitment to purchase EPC's is happening. That is why we have a place where members can request prayer for their family etc.

YMMSS is a good company run by a good guy and is inhabited by a lot of good people.

I am proud to be a member - even if I never made another penny from it. I know I will though.

Shug

[Gringo]

Why would any affiliate want to make a prediction? That is the problem with this forum - all predictions and guessing. Kim and other Mods have made many predictions, all failing. First he predicted CT would never go over 90. Then there were predictions that it would reverse and come down in Jan., Feb. May, etc. It was also preducted that CT would top out at 120, 150-160, etc. Since Kim was horribly wrong in all his predictions, he hasn't given out any recently.You also label and align YMMSS with every negative experience on the internet - not giving the company the benefit of the doubt. There is no doubt anymore that YMMSS cannot deliver it's promise to perpetually double everyones money in 60 - 90 days. It is a mathmatical, economic impossibility that can easily be proven. In contrast, no one has provided any refutation for this.You all go on about people suffering because of YMMSS and yet the company was created to help those suffering from internet biz-opps. Regardless of why it was created, the fact is that many people are in serious financial trouble now because Kim would not and could not keep his promise to keep CT below 90 days. Just look at some of the postings in the YMMSS CT Watch forum for proof.I will be meeting with Kim soon (for the first time - although I spoke to him many times at the Thursday conferences) and I will come back to this forum and give an honest appraisal. I'm not holding my breath for your "honest" appraisal. Kim has proven to many people that he has a likable, sincere personality. So do all con men. Your appraisal of him and YMMSS should be based on their actions and rational analysis NOT promises, appearances, personallity or likability of the owner.

[Dreamer]

The reason i started this thread, as gringo just mentioned, because there have been alot of promises and predictions made by ymmss, that, well, just havent come thru.

I think it was surfer who had an excellent post here detailing all the wonderful things that was going to happen to ymmss in april may and june that was supposed to bring the cycle time down drastically. And yet, it still underperformed just based on the average dollars spent compared to the previous month.

Why did this happen? Well, the blame is typically placed on the server not processing 5 days a week, or 7, or whatever. This defies all logic, because if my bank is closed on the weekends, I will wait until monday to cash my check. Simple.

So, with all the wonderful changes that have happened these past few months, that silly golf game, the failing auction, the banner ads that arent paying out, the new server, etc, none of it made any positive impact on the "business". So, why do you believe there will be $19million dollars a week coming in next year, or whatever imaginary amount he is saying?

Is he still pushing for everything happening in 18 months? Why is 18 months important? Well, that is how long it takes for $10 to reach $320 recurring if the cycle time was 90 days. So, if I start my $10 epc purchases today, by the time of the 6 cycles alot of money will kick it to guarantee that it will be 90 days...or, maybe it will drop down to 60 days...hot digity!

Is he starting to say a year now, or how long? Chances are, instead of trying to continue the 90 day myth, he is probably predicting his own demise. If the $19million, or whatever it is, will kick in in abot a year, hes probably predicting that "business" will completely collapse within the year.

[Shoes]

Gringo

Regardless of why it was created, the fact is that many people are in serious financial trouble now because Kim would not and could not keep his promise to keep CT below 90 days. Just look at some of the postings in the YMMSS CT Watch forum for proof.

It's not KIms fault if people get into debt. He expressly told them not to. If someone is in financial difficulty then they have only themselves to blame.


Also, has anyone in this forum, who all keep banging on about prove this and prove that - has anyone ever shown the text where Kim said he would guarantee 90 days? No?

I never read the words guarantee except on off site web pages.

Shug

[Shoes]

Also Gringo - CT Watch is fairly okay - a few grumblers perhaps, [but then that was always the case]

You must be one of them. You crazy grumbler you. :D

[Gringo]

It's not KIms fault if people get into debt. He expressly told them not to. If someone is in financial difficulty then they have only themselves to blame. Well, yes each person that falls for a scam investment can blame themselves for not thinking it through thoroughly, researching it, being greedy and naive, but that doesn't relieve the scammer from blame either. Representing to people that the CT would always be between 60 and 90 days and Kim would add his own funds into the system to insure this, is what drew so many people in. Kim broke this committment as soon as he had to perform and thus caused hundreds of people significant financial hardship.Also, has anyone in this forum, who all keep banging on about prove this and prove that - has anyone ever shown the text where Kim said he would guarantee 90 days? Read the YMMSS history and explaination from their own postings. Kim did guarantee it but later removed it under the advice of his attorney. Presumably it would still be there had the attorney not said that it should be removed. In any event the term "guarantee" was there, but then removed and Kim still gave plenty of assurances:

August 19, 2004 - Conference Call Summary
"……our cycle times will most definitely remain in the 60-90 day time frame."

September 2, 2004 - Conference Call Summary
"Kim has a fund established to ensure that the cycle time remains at 90 days or less and if we need to use those funds we will."

...and plenty of other ones. There's your proof. Regarding a 90 day or less cycle, at various times he has guaranteed it, assured people of it, promised it, said there is no guarantee, said it's just a goal, said the system was designed for it, and various other descriptions all over the board. In short the 90 day cycle is described as whatever Kim needs to describe it as in any given situation.

Almost universally YMMSS supporters that lurk here, simply end up with meaningless postings with no rational explaination to the mathmatical flaws of the system. They desperately want to believe it works so they believe what they want to believe despite the facts. Clearly you are one of these so all the facts and logic presented here will have no affect on your beliefs. You seem to enjoy the like minded followers and are happy if you don't make any money, as you admitted. The problem is that others are being drawn in not just to be part of a feel good group, but with the false representation that money that they put in will will double, and at some not too distant time their funds will double on a 90 day or less cycle.

[Shoes]

Tell me honestly. Is there any business that does not change and evolve in order to survive?

It matters not what rationality is posted here by YM members anyway - you guy's are entrenched and will not be moved. If cycle times came down to 90 days today, you would still criticise.

Of course there are flaws in the system, that's life - YM is run by Humans.

The principal sums that Kim talked of putting into the commission pool are still around. There have been several investements made where the principal sum is secure. Rather than throwing funds at the Com Pool - Kim has taken advice from the guy he hired to give financial advice, and used the money to generate very large incomes.

Now that is sound financial planning. A strong economy should be run on forward planning and ensuring that todays money is around tomorrow and with interest.

Your logic is - spend now and worry about tomorow when it comes.

So because Kim has changed his mind, on advice from his adviser, he is criticised in here with this constant harping back to last years comments.

YMMSS is moving onbut it's obvious you are stuck in 2004. This is the internet -things move and evolve.

You should

Shug

[ycchen]

... If cycle times came down to 90 days today, you would still criticise.

Nope, we won't. If the cycle time comes down to 90 days this summer, I am pretty sure most of our members will join YMMSS instantly. Why? Because if that happen, it means that YMMSS does have outside income that is many many times larger than its members' constribution. If that is a case, then YMMSS is probably the only known case that successfully transform itself from a ponzi scheme to a real investment scheme.

Will this miracle happen? ... :shake:

[stefandozier]

The Cycle times will NEVER come down to 90 days again... i had a position that i bought in october, read the stupid *** ads every week for more than 30 min, and it hasnt cycled and never will, so i gave up, **** that stupid ymmss ****... its a scam, they dont have any "outside" cash coming in either.. the cycle times will just keep going up

[surfer]

Nope. CTs are irrelevant if you have enough positions, and it is my business plan.

Cherio

Sorry, that is a fallacy. (http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2806)

[surfer]

Tell me honestly. Is there any business that does not change and evolve in order to survive?
Agreed, every business must adapt to survive.

It matters not what rationality is posted here by YM members anyway - you guy's are entrenched and will not be moved. If cycle times came down to 90 days today, you would still criticise.
We are no more entrenched in our beliefs than
you are in yours.

Our beliefs are backed by the certainties of math
and statistics. You base your entire beliefs purely
on someone's word that things will improve.

You're right, I'll always be critical of a system that
deceives it's members.

Let cycle times get back to 90 days, then we can
talk. ;)

Of course there are flaws in the system, that's life - YM is run by Humans.
The pay structure is not simply flawed, it is fatally
flawed. As has already been proven, it can not be
maintained.

The principal sums that Kim talked of putting into the commission pool are still around. There have been several investements made where the principal sum is secure. Rather than throwing funds at the Com Pool - Kim has taken advice from the guy he hired to give financial advice, and used the money to generate very large incomes.
Again, no proof of any of this.

I can't remember exactly when YMMSS announced
the official hiring of Mark Boike, but since he has
been a "friend" of Kim's for 18 years, why didn't he
advise him not to make those promises to begin
with?

Now that is sound financial planning. A strong economy should be run on forward planning and ensuring that todays money is around tomorrow and with interest.
Can't dispute that, but promises and guarantees
should be honored or refunds should be given
because people were enticed to spend more
or join under false pretenses.

Your logic is - spend now and worry about tomorow when it comes.
My logic is - Honor your promises and guarantees
to your customers/affiliates or give them their
money back.

So because Kim has changed his mind, on advice from his adviser, he is criticised in here with this constant harping back to last years comments.
I criticize because Kim has lied and "misspoke"
on numerous occasions, this year included.

YMMSS is moving onbut it's obvious you are stuck in 2004. This is the internet -things move and evolve.

You should
Actually, I believe YMMSS is still stuck in October
of 2004 at the moment. lol

[Gringo]

It matters not what rationality is posted here by YM members anyway - you guy's are entrenched and will not be moved. Why don't you make a rational response to any of the many postings here as to how YMMSS can perpetually double an unlimited amount of money every 90 days before making that statement?

So because Kim has changed his mind, on advice from his adviser, he is criticised in here with this constant harping back to last years comments. Okay so first you admit that the 90 day cycle thing wasn't just made up by "off site" pages? And now it's the "financial advisors" fault that Kim had to back off of his committment to keep the times at 90?Now that is sound financial planning. A strong economy should be run on forward planning and ensuring that todays money is around tomorrow and with interest. Yes, real sound plan. As a result of times going over 90 he has lost the trust and confidence of the majority of affiliates causing CT to increase even more to the point that it can't be reversed even if he wanted to. Are you saying that purchases today are "ensured" to double in the future?

[Shoes]

The Cycle times will NEVER come down to 90 days again... i had a position that i bought in october, read the stupid *** ads every week for more than 30 min, and it hasnt cycled and never will, so i gave up, **** that stupid ymmss ****... its a scam, they dont have any "outside" cash coming in either.. the cycle times will just keep going up

Biggest load of rubbish Iv'e read yet. lol

Shug

[Dreamer]

I started a pointless thread last week regarding the math of ymmss. Now remember, people are talking about retiring off of ymmss.

http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2901

What is the significient findings? Well, lets not talk about 10 years where I stopped the thread. Lets talk about 3 years. ymmss survived for 3 years, will it survive for another 3 years?

Well, taking the model as it was meant to be, I assumed a 90 day cycle. I also had my 79 $10 positions get up to the $320 to make me $25,000 per cycle, earning me $100,000 a year.

Instad of withdrawing it every 3 months, I decided to just withdraw it the fourth quarter, one lump sum.

In 3 years I had taken out just a little above $14million dollars, and I still have $12.8million per cycle. The way the lie is perpretated is that you will take out $25,000 every cycle, so you made $75,000 and have $25,000. Thats a big difference.

But, who cares about the individual? What will happen to ymmss?

By the 3rd year, the payout will $320 billion.

Do you believe that is possible?

[sisco50]

LOL I shouldn't laugh but some things are pretty funny. I don't believe that is possible at all. :)

[stefandozier]

Biggest load of rubbish Iv'e read yet. lol

Shug


oh so you think "ymmss" is a "real" business and you are going to get rich from reading ads??????? HA w/e you want to think i guess



:shake:

[Shoes]

The Cycle times will NEVER come down to 90 days again... i had a position that i bought in october, read the stupid *** ads every week for more than 30 min, and it hasnt cycled and never will, so i gave up, **** that stupid ymmss ****... its a scam, they dont have any "outside" cash coming in either.. the cycle times will just keep going up

Actually, giving you 2 replies is 2 replies more than it's worth.

At least the other negateevo's and part time Jim Rockfords make an effort to deceive the readers here, you just posted rubbish and made your self look :crazy: .

Give it some thought the next time.

Shug

[liveandlearn]

Actually, giving you 2 replies is 2 replies more than it's worth.

At least the other negateevo's and part time Jim Rockfords make an effort to deceive the readers here, you just posted rubbish and made your self look :crazy: .

Give it some thought the next time.

Shug

Shoes, would you please give an explanation of how you see this working? I would really like to see your point of view with a real explanation instead of negatively attacking the people in here. I think everyone in here would think it would be nice to have an adult dialog/debate with you. Just show us your facts and who knows??? I think everyone here would love to see this work for the many people that have put so much in to it. No one wants to see families broken apart and life savings lost. But from our logical statistics this seems to be the road YMMSS is taking. Prove us wrong with something of substance not just name calling and lets go from there.

Liveandlearn

[Arzel]

Tell me honestly. Is there any business that does not change and evolve in order to survive?


Of course there are flaws in the system, that's life - YM is run by Humans.

I find it ironic when pro-YMMSS people make statements like these.

When Kim talks about his creation of YMMSS, he mentions how he was trying to create a business where everyone wins. He also mentions how he tried to work with every possible exisiting type of MLM and twisted and crunched the numbers so many times he lost count. Until finally a revelation in a dream landed him upon the YMMSS concept and an ultimate business model (some of which is a trade secrect of course :) ).

Yet it is painfully obvious that he did not come up with the ultimate business model. He has said numerous times that "This is something completely new, and we are learning as we go along." "We will make some mistakes, but we will solve them."

What I want to ask pro-YMMSS'ers is why do believe him when he knowingly has made "mistakes" in the design of his model, and where does Kim come up with the audacity to believe that he will suceed where all others have failed when he has already made soo many mistakes?

The logic is quite simple. Since YMMSS is not working in it's current state, Kim did not come up with the ultimate business model, and his dream was wrong. Since he admits to trying to twist and manipulate every other possible model out there with no success, why does anyone believe that he will be able to turn the failure of YMMSS into a working model?

[Gringo]

why does anyone believe that he will be able to turn the failure of YMMSS into a working model? Because he says so and the followers believe what Kim says regardless of the rationality behind it. They believe what they want to believe despite the facts. Facts just confuse things when your hopes are based on the promises of your leader instead of a critical analysis of the logic behind the business plan.

[ycchen]

I thought the followers still have a chance to get their refund if they ask for it? nope? Of course, if they have profited too much from the ponzi, they should probably donate all their illegal profit back to the "pool" (or third party account), so the >80% victims (latecomers) could claim part of their refund.

Followers have many ways to help themselves and others. Praising the con-man is the probably the worst thing to do at this moment. :(