YMMSS Myth: beating cycle times with more purchases.

[surfer]

One of the popular myths(or lies) being pushed by
some YMMSS members and admin is that you can
avoid the impact of rising cycle times by purchasing
more and spreading your purchases out.

Some are trying to beat cycle times by
purchasing daily or weekly.

First things first.

If this "business" that was supposedly inspired by
God were truly working as "designed", there would be
no need to "beat" cycle times by throwing good
money after bad.

Members attempting to do so continue to ignore the
impact that perpetually rising cycle times have on
being paid.

A strategy like this could only work if you could at
some point stop investing out of pocket money.
After all, if you have unmatured EPCs, according
to YMMSS you are putting 100% of your "real
money" profits back into your business when you
cycle. Matured EPCs set to recurring income are
putting 50% of your "real money" profits back into
the business.

I didn't take the time to break down the numbers for
daily purchase, I did do a quick run through on the
results someone could have if they started doing
weekly purchases while times were still good for this
ponzi.

If a member started purchasing on March 22, 2004
and purchased every week up through today, they
would have the following results.

You would have purchased 64 positions.

The first 7 purchases, 3/22 to 5/3, would have cycled
3 times with the first position last cycling around 12/1
and the last cycling around 5/2. So your positions that
were intitially 7 weeks apart are now over 17 weeks
apart.

The next 11 purchases, 5/10 to 7/19, would have cycled
2 times with the first position last cycling on 10/30 and
the last position cycling on 4/15. So positions initially
spread over 11 weeks are now about 24 weeks apart.

The next 13 purchases, 7/26 to 10/18, would have cycled
one time with the first positino last cycling on 10/24 and
the last position cycling on 4/15. So positions initially
spread over 13 weeks are now about 25 weeks apart.

The next 33 purchases, 10/25 to 6/6, have not cycled
at all yet.

So what's the net result for a loyal YMMSS member
who has been "building their business" by purchasing
one position every week for almost 15 months?

They haven't cycled or been paid in over a month.
Their reward is that they haven't been paid since the
beginning of May. Their next closest position to cycling
would have been one that was purchased on 10/25/04.

YMMSS has been "processing" October 21, 2004 for
2 1/2 weeks with probably a week or more left to get
past it onto 10/22. So it looks like it will be at least
1 or 2 more months for this loyal member to cycle or
be paid.

Even with weekly purchases, this member would still
be 2-3 months between cycles and it keeps getting
worse as cycle times continue to increase.

It's worse for the poorer members who could only afford
to buy in at $40 or less since they have yet to see a
single dollar from this "business". Unless they decided
to pull their positions with "claim via website" or chose
the lesser mentioned recurring $160 option.

A member purchasing $320s set to recurring income
would be about $2560 in the hole and getting worse
each week.

The earliest members are still able to reap some of
the rewards from before the ponzi got too big to
be maintained by member purchases only. However,
their incomes are also rapidly decreasing.

Right now, the best way to make money in YMMSS
is to recruit new members into the ponzi.

The moral of this post.

Stop accepting excuses from Kim Inman. He continues
to claim that his "business" was designed to work
in 60 to 90 day cycles. Don't give him another
damn penny until he can prove it!

If you are reading your ads every week as promised,
your boss is now close to 5 months late in paying you!!

Would you allow your boss at work to blame "Murphy"
for a paycheck that's 5 months late?

[Gringo]

Thanks for the post Surfer. You are completely correct. I think many people are already catching on to this bogus strategy of regular purchases = regular payments. New purchases continue to decline. Nothing can change the hard core followers, but there's not much new recruiting happening and the rest of the members are finally starting to face reality as each new fix to the rising cycle times falls flat...

...but just wait for that new retail ad manager to start pulling in millions of dollars in revenue.

[ycchen]

...but just wait for that new retail ad manager to start pulling in millions of dollars in revenue.

Yeah, right. I won't be surprised if the "millions of dollars" is YMMSS member's money (remember the 25% Kim steals from its members?) "claimed by" retail manager as retail revenue.

Ponzis are always (100%) defeated by the maths. The only purpose of the real (or mostly fake) determination of their king and his followers is to squeeze more money out of their members before it "crash" (= owner running away with your money).

[Arzel]

...but just wait for that new retail ad manager to start pulling in millions of dollars in revenue.

Ha! New retail manager. I find the resume of the retail manager very dubious.

Michael Hamilton testimonial
I was EXTREMELY hesitant regarding this program, as I had been burned many times before. Finally, after talking with the Founders (yes, you can actually TALK to the founders), they convinced me that this program had a proven track record.

And I now have an additional $320.00 in my bank account to fund my other ventures!!!

And I will have MULTIPLE streams of the same income in a short period....

Tell one, tell all, this program is real, and MUST be the best kept secret on the net!!

If you have ANY questions, email me at my personal address or at my private site address and I will GLADLY attest to the authenticity of this program!!!


Why would someone working for a fortune 20 company with a territory value of $5.2 billion need to even be thinking about trying to make a secondary income, much less be worried about $320 in his bank account to fund some other investment?

More about Mike. I did a little research and was unable to find anything linking him to anything remotely resembling a fortune 20 company, but he does (Claim to) own numerous websites.

I found these:

http://www.dollarfarm.com (ezine for tips on internet moneymaking schemes)
http://www.breaking110.com (golf tips)
http://www.steadycashincome.com/index.htm (Referral link for YMMSS)

Looks like Mike is a pretty good golfer, but I couldn't find anything that would make me believe he is a magical retail manager.

[Gringo]

I kind of suspected they'd end up hiring one of the members. Any high level ad exec that objectively looked at the position, what the advertising service was and their expections on sales from it would just laugh and walk away.

[AvidA]

I am new here but have been watching the posts and feel like a real reject. I had been putting money into YMMSS since 2003 when there were little more then 1000 people. I have never been paid. I bought small (2x$10.00 EPC's per week) because I am disabled and rationalized that I was patient, so once I started making that 640.00 per week, I could stop working the 9-5 where I am ailing most of the time. I also receive a small amount of disability from the state, though this is temporary. Can you imagine how foolish I feel? I had never bought into anything on the net and this looked so good at the time and everyone was being paid. I felt like it was a sure thing...people were raving! Who will comfort me now? I am stuck! How can Kim let people know where he lives and not expect some of us to come after him??????? I quit putting money into YMMSS when the cycle time hit 120 days because...3 months was acceptable. 4 months is not. And now what is it? A half a year or something?? I feel so stupid. I live in Detroit suburbs and will someone just shoot me? I know I have no real excuse but honestly, I had neve heard of this Ponzi character...only Pyramid schemes and this didn't seem to fit. OOPS!

[Arzel]

AvidA,

Don't look at it that way, it is quite easy to fall into the Ponzi trap. The fact that they can work for an insidious long time makes them even more dangerous. These things prey off the less knowledgable, and unless you have been exposed to them at some level it is easy to be fooled.

If you have not recieved anything you should be able to file a complaint with the Michigan AG. You are probably pretty close to getting paid, but it doesn't matter anymore because YMMSS is going down fast, and any money that you would make would be money that someone else lost.

[Deso]

Hi, Id just like to say that we are all potential victims in some form or another. Dont feel bad, just because some people are more aware of some scams than others, just try to learn from your experiences. I myself have been scammed by others online, long before I even knew what a ponzi was!
In fact I was a hairs breadth of signing up to YMMSS a short while ago, thankfully for me I came across this site first!. I have since donated my investment money into something more worthwhile.. this site.
Ive been watching the posts up until this point and I thought I would just toss in my tuppence worth.

Im not a maths expert, an accountant, lawyer or doctor, just a common working guy who doesnt like being ripped off. Im not going to be rich by some miracle of the internet, but by supporting this site I can be sure Im not going to get ripped off again!.

[drzod]

AvidA, I only invested a one-time amount in YMMSS in Jan 04 of $370. Supposedly, that is worth $5920 now, but after what I have learned on this site, I don't want the money. If I did, I could be taking your money and leaving you high and dry - this is just wrong and unacceptable to me morally. Get mad, and use your new knowledge and lodge a complaint before YMMSS runs always with your money. I'm trying to get as many members as possible to "see the light" and read the material here. The problem is that this is difficult because challenging posts are deleted. I've already been mocked in conference calls, called a spreader of "poison" on the forums, and called by Kim himself. For a while I felt afraid and unsure of what to do, but the support I have received here re-energized me and I am doing all I can to help.

[AvidA]

I really appreciate your support and the fact that, while it would be very easy to make fun of me, none of you have.
I am just lost at this point. I don't know what the AG is. I am usually so level headed but people have made money on the net so...again, I thought that I could be one of them and somewhere inside of me I do feel a bit like a kool-aid drinker. Like I am still holding out for a miracle. But my logic is like a punch in the gut. I am one of the sucide types that would jump out a window on Black Tuesday. You see, I couldn't afford this. So I am stuck and anyone who could help me bring down the house on this kind of theft would be a welcome response.
I talked to Kim a couple times on the phone back on 2003 and he does have that charisma. I can see people falling for the ol' Kim charm. :shake:
I guess I am just venting in the hopes that other YMMSSers, like myself, will see these posts and just take the time to think before jumping ahead. While I will still be on disability and working, Kim is building a new home. :nono:

[drzod]

AvidA, the AG that Arzel is referencing is the attorney general. It looks like you reside in Michigan, so the site is listed below:

http://www.michigan.gov/ag/

[Dreamer]

I think ultimately what people are thinking about when purchasing multiple days is the idea of getting paid everyday.

Here is the theory. 90 day cycle. But a $10 position every day. Spend $900 over the day. 18 months later your making $320 a day. Not bad. After the 18 months all you need is 3 days in order to make back your money than every day after that is pure profit.

Now, so long as the cycle days is 90 days or less, no matter how bad the business appears, your making money every day. Cant beat that. What if the cycle doubles? well, still every other day is not bad. Even if the cycle goes up to 630 days (90x7) your still getting paid once a week. 1260 CT would end up being how often i get paid at work...every other week. Even than $320 extra a paycheck isnt that bad.

Now, if you buy one big day of $900, if the CT doubles, your money is in there longer. Even if you end up with 90 positions, if you have to wait all this time to double your money, it doesnt look good.

So, on the surface, it seems like a good plan if your a member. If I were to join i would probably buy every day for that reason alone.

But, why push it? Are the people who are pushing it have any inside information?

Here i the problem with big day purchases. Lets say Somebody spnds $500,000 one day. If the business is strong, let the money stay in there. Or, take out the original investment when it doubles and keep the rest in there to double. But, when the site is looking bad and about to crash, when that persons position double, i will bet anything that he will take the money and run.

Contrast that with a day by dy buyer who will keep the positions in there just to make money every day. So that is why i can see them wanting people to make smaller purchases because theya re more than likely to keep their money in the system.

But, if you made a purchase today, you would need to make a purchase every day for 1000 days. But, because the CT is not stable, you will not get paid every day in 1000 days. The CT will probably be close to 2000 day.

After those 1,000 days, the member would have spent $10,000 and not cycled once.

So, how does the member help bring down cycle time?

Well, 100% of all members that made a purchase on 10/23/2004 nees to make double the size of their purchase today. Then, when they work on 10/24/2004, all members that made a purchase on that day needs to make another purchase the size of their original purchase. The new member purchases and the other poeples persons purchases that didnt purchase on that day should cover for the 15% deficit that kim takes above the income sources that he takes in.

Now, if all the members did that, instead of random payments here and there, the cycle time would remain constant at 230 days or whatever it currently is.

So, how do they bring down the cycle time? Tripple their purchases. And, what would that accomplish? Well, For every day they would probably lose a day for awhile. However, since the purchases are relatively random, they might actually lose 3 or 4 days some days and other days not lose any.

Of course, when we start working on june 9th, assuming the members start today, they are going to have to do 9x the 10/23/2004 purchase price to continue bringing the CT down.

The only way thi will work if kim brings in all these retailers at some point so that the members dont have to buy more to pay themselves. Will i doubt that will ever happen.

[AvidA]

thank you DRZOD!

[surfer]

Welcome to MatrixWatch AvidA.

There is definitely no need to feel like a reject.

With the advent of the internet and digital
products like internet advertising, it's that much
easier to disguise a ponzi.

For the first 2 years or so Kim Inman didn't even
foot the bill for the bandwidth of his ponzi when
members placed their "ads". YMMSS was using
Yahoo safelists for members to use their EPCs.

So Kim was "selling" a virtual product that cost
him nothing and offering ludicrous commissions
on the back end while taking a hefty 25%
commission for himself on the front end.

It was a briliantly designed ponzi that worked
flawlessly for 2 1/2 years for members who got
in very early or were able to buy in at the higher
EPC positions.

Unfortunately, people like yourself who are on a
limited budget simply couldn't outpurchase the
inevitable rise in cycle times.

Hopefully, you'll get some of your money back.

Good luck and thanks for speaking out.

[Salsa]

AvidA,

No one with any merit will make fun of you for falling victim to a con. I'm sure that it's happened to everyone at least once--and especially to those with good hearts.

While con artists will often prey on a victim's sense of greed, their easiest victims are also people with a bright outlook on life and confidence in their fellow man. The con artist uses these invaluable virtures against his victims. Sure, now that you've been made to suffer for your goodness, get mad as hell, at least for a while, and do what you can to find justice. But please don't do anything self-destructive. Keep your chin up, and keep your virtures at any cost. They are what makes life worthwhile. You will get through this. And when you do, you will get to be you for the rest of your life--while Kim will have to be Kim. Who would trade places with him? Not anyone who I would care to know.

Salsa

PS: after you file what complaints you do, I suggest that you post what you've done in the Complaints (http://matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2783) thread for the benefit of others. ...And maybe we can get our threads back on topic. -S

[Arzel]

AvidA,

No one with any merit will make fun of you for falling victim to a con. I'm sure that it's happened to everyone at least once--and especially to those with good hearts.

While con artists will often prey on a victim's sense of greed, their easiest victims are also people with a bright outlook on life and confidence in their fellow man. The con artist uses these invaluable virtures against his victims. Sure, now that you've been made to suffer for your goodness, get mad as hell, at least for a while, and do what you can to find justice. But please don't do anything self-destructive. Keep your chin up, and keep your virtures at any cost. They are what makes life worthwhile. You will get through this. And when you do, you will get to be you for the rest of your life--while Kim will have to be Kim. Who would trade places with him? Not anyone who I would care to know.

Salsa



I don't think I could ever state it better than that Salsa. :bow:

[MatrixWatch]

AvidA,

No one with any merit will make fun of you for falling victim to a con. I'm sure that it's happened to everyone at least once--and especially to those with good hearts.



Well said. And it isn't really about whether or not someone falls for a scam, it is what they do afterward. Everyone makes mistakes. For me, it was a matrix auction on eBay that I misunderstood at 2:00am one morning. Had I slept on it, I wouldn't have touched the thing.

But, I turned my mistake into an opportunity to help others (starting MatrixWatch), and now there are vitually no more matrix scams. :) But, the success of this site is totally the work of those people donated their time, money, and effort to make things just a little bit better.

That is really what it is all about. Everybody does things in life that they wish that they wouldn't have. Everybody makes mistakes. It is what comes next that counts, and it is often that next thing that has the most impact.

So, for all of you out there who fell victim to a scam, don't lose heart. See it as an empowering opportunity, and use it to help yourself and others. We're all in this thing together. :)

[ycchen]

Ha! New retail manager. I find the resume of the retail manager very dubious.

Michael Hamilton testimonial


Why would someone working for a fortune 20 company with a territory value of $5.2 billion need to even be thinking about trying to make a secondary income, much less be worried about $320 in his bank account to fund some other investment?

More about Mike. I did a little research and was unable to find anything linking him to anything remotely resembling a fortune 20 company, but he does (Claim to) own numerous websites.

I found these:

http://www.dollarfarm.com (ezine for tips on internet moneymaking schemes)
http://www.breaking110.com (golf tips)
http://www.steadycashincome.com/index.htm (Referral link for YMMSS)

Looks like Mike is a pretty good golfer, but I couldn't find anything that would make me believe he is a magical retail manager.

I just thought I add a video interview of Michael Hamilton on YMMSS in case you haven't seen it. :D

http://nrpmediastream.com/ymmss/mike_interview.wmv

So who will be responsible for the ultimate failure of YMMSS? Kim or Mike? :crazy:

[Shoes]

Not you anyway. Your way too clever.

[drankoolaid]

You Decide ---

Mike Hamilton writes:

"Tell one, tell all, this program is real, and MUST be the best kept secret on the net!!"


Good God if only that were true --

Sure would have been a lot less misery!

[AvidA]

Wow! What a blast from the past! And how striking the resemblence is to this year. lol...good lord!