Everyone needs to read this!

[uwantme]

I saw this post on another board and I had to post it here. You guys freely give out owners information and encourage people to take action. Plus the information is made open to all the public on these boards and you never know what sick people will be using it and heres a good example:

This is a post from matrixcom:
I am sorry to say that MatrixCom has shut it's doors. I have refunded all the big spenders that I could and am currently -13,9850.00 in debt with Paysystems due to these refunds. My accountant freaked when he done my books the other day. 160,000.00 came in and 180,000.00 went out, and that's not including the Paysystems debt I owe . If Paypal ever releases the money they are holding, then more refunds will go out.
I know you all don't care what I have to say, but please, read this post completely as I am explaining what happened and about me working on the refunds.

Most of you know me as Zita. Please read the following for an explanation of the site closure.

Back in November, I was looking for my girls a PS2 on ebay when I came across the "ezexpo" link. I hurriedly purchased a few "ebooks" to get on the free PS2 list, not understanding how the matrix worked. When I figured it out a few days later I added ezexpo's profit up in my head. I thought it was a rip off the profit they made from people like us.

So, thats when I decided to open my own company and give the gifts with a minimal profit to me, and changed a few things around. I didn't really understand about the processing fees and other things that would be charged to me for a Payment Processor, cause I started out with Paypal.
I couldn't change the track lengths or prices when I started using Paysystems because that wouldn't be right.

I worked my matrix alone. Buying gifts, shipping them out, etc....
I didn't trust anyone to help me.

With the lawsuit and other matrix sites popping up and shutting down, I received 99% bad emails. I didn't care about this though. I kept having ideas about how to make everything go smoother and was in the process of opening an online webstore so that more profits could go toward the free gifts.

In May, 2 of my members stalked me and my children. I live in the mountains with no one living close by. Late one night while me and my babies was watching tv, my dog started barking crazily outside. I opened the door to see what he was barking at, thinking it was another stray dog. 2 men attacked me in front of my children. One of the men is a member of this forum, and I hope he reads this and understands what he has done.

I had to give them my purse and they got in their car and raced off. I called a policeman who I am friendly with that lived down the road, and he ended up getting them. Me and my children had to go to the police station and identify the men. It ended up being 2 stupid men that were on my 25$ Kit-PS2 lists. They had only 25$ each invested and they really hurt me and my children over it.

I had to change my dns information because that's where they got my home address from. I also changed anything on the internet that had my address on it.

Honestly, I didn't open a matrix site to scam anyone, I opened it hoping that people would cycle faster and get their gifts faster than ezexpo. I didn't want profit. I know you guys are probably saying yeah, right. I was just so mad at ezexpo for taking such a profit, that I wanted to break even and give out the gifts to people so they wouldn't have to wait very long.

Add the figures up in your head and you will see I didn't make any profit at all. Don't forget the 10% processing fees and the shipping charges.

I didn't realize that me or mine would get hurt over trying to do something I thought was good for everyone.

That's the reason MatrixCom is gone. I will not put my babies in jeopardy again. It's my fault that they are afraid to go outside now. Isn't that punishment enough? Put yourself in my shoes. Would you want your children to have to suffer from a mistake you made?

To the 2 men who made their visit to me and my children, I hope you are satisfied with your revenge. You are evil men.

As I stated in the first paragraph, I have refunded all big spenders who haven't received a gift. Next, I will start with the smaller spenders, and then last the ones who have received a gift but were waiting for more.
It may take a long time before I get everyone refunded, as it's not coming from anywhere but my own pockets. But at least I'm willing to try. I still have the lists in a database that I am using.

I do not come to the forums often, as I don't like reading the posts. But I knew everyone needed an explanation.

Now anyone can easily look up the police reports to see if this is true but I fully believe it is. The world is full of horrible people and they arent all matrix site owners as you like to think. I think maybe you should change you policy about posting peoples information on this board. Maybe you can send it privatly to a members email or PM if they request information. I mean just think about it what if that woman had been killed or any of her babies because of information someone recieved off your posts that had her address contact information etc... Do you really want something like that on your shoulders?

Im sorry if I am speaking strongly about this but it is truly a horrible thing and having kids of my own I cant even imagine what that woman went through. So many of you speak about destroying all sites and the people who run them but is this really what you want to happen to people?

And for watchdog personally- I think you should take into consideration what I said about not posting peoples personal information on your board. If something like this would happen again and the perpetraitors who did it confess they recieved their information from your board, they can make you an accomplice, or an accessory to the crime along with whoever posted their information. If you dont believe me please check with your local law department. Not to mention you can also be sued for it, your lawyer should be able to verify that.

Im not for all matrix sites but there are good and bad ones out there and not even the bads ones really deserve things like this....

[concerned]

uwantme

I read this post and I am with you, I think it actually happened. It is an example of how this whole Matrix concept is getting out of hand. It is one thing for all of us to sit at our computers and debate these topics, but what happened there is uncalled for. I was just curious about something. What forum was that posted at, if you don't mind me asking. I just wonder because she states that one of the men were a member of "this forum". I didn't find that post here at matrixwatch, so I was wondering what forum that was at. That still is not to say that they are or not members here also. I just thought that should be cleared up. I also have other parts of that post that I might want to discuss, but I don't think that this thread might be the place. This thread should be about the HORRIBLE thing that happened. I hope that this remains an isolated incident, but you never know in today's world.

I am not supporting what those men did when I make this next statement, but it is my belief that when people THINK they have been ripped off they sometimes resort to behavior like this. I hope that some of the other matrix owners also take note here and protect themselves until this whole mess gets resolved.

One final note, I agree with you. I don't think that personnel info should be posted here. It is very easy to find anyways, so if someone wants that kind of information in the future, then tell them how to get it instead of providing it here. It will eliminate watchdogs responsibility for running this forum.

[uwantme]

Thanks concerned, it was posted at ezexpos forum but I know there forum went through many hands and changes but i think its their original forum. Its at this link:

http://groups.msn.com/EZExpo/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=47389&ID_CLast=47390&CDir=1

[mikv]

I hope ALL the people of these forums take heed and STOP posting personal information. That is a very tragic story to read and it may well have been someone from this forum that went into that forum and posted the information. That's the problem with trying to get lynch mob justice by telling everybody to call and harrass "anybody that answers" or "anybody that is home" at the time.

[poorme]

I can not find matrixcom site?
If it is true,can she sue EZexpo?


Any proof that this really happen?


And for watchdog personally- I think you should take into consideration what I said about not posting peoples personal information on your board.
1. The address of owner can be found through the domain name anyway?
2. Is the address of matrixcom ever post in the forum ???????
Anyone please give me the link.


I check her address through domain name. It is in Korea.
This happened in Korea or USA

[uwantme]

She closed the site down, thats what her post is about it explains why she closed her site. Thats probably why you cant find the actual website anymore. I also felt that was important because a member of matrixwatch tried to post her personal information in these forums just a couple of days ago but it appeared she had already changed it to protect herself, and the person who tried to post her information just claimed

"All Bougs Information, looks like they planned to skip out from the start."

Which as we can tell now is not the case. Its also a good example of people posting information without the fact and trying to rile up emotions against these site owners. I do know that some sites are bad, but you just cant assume everyone is out there to rip you off and try to convince others of the same thing without having all the facts, just look at what can happen.

What do you mean can she sue ezexpo? If you mean because someone put her contact information there and thats how the guys got it, I dont know if she can sue ezexpo, she can sue the owner of the forum(I dont think ezexpo owns that forum anymore, I believe someone else runs it) and she also sue whoever actually posted her information there if that is where those 2 guys got her information from. She didnt state exactly how the men got her information from her DNS just that one of them was a member of that forum. However in all these forums people are constantly posting owners personal information and it should be stopped. Its just an example of what could happen to any of them or their families when the wrong people get a hold of that information. And it is a liability against these forums that allow posting of person information.

[poorme]

I check her address through domain name of the site. It is in Korea.
This happened in Korea ?????????????

What is the exact name of the site please?


If that really happen, I feel sorry for you.

I hate taking other's money and calling them fool

[uwantme]

I check her address through domain name of the site. It is in Korea.
This happened in Korea ?????????????

What is the exact name of the site please?

No she lived in the USA, she changed all of her DNS information a different address to protect herself and family from further incidents like this.

The exact name of the site was www.matrixcomkits.com

1. The address of owner can be found through the domain name anyway?

Usually it can but not all the time. However when forums post personal information it because their liability.

2. Is the address of matrixcom ever post in the forum ???????
Anyone please give me the link.

They tried to post it here at matrixwatch but she had already changed it to protect herself. its at this link: http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=279&highlight=matrixcom

[uwantme]

Originally posted by poorme


I hate taking other's money and calling them fool

I dont understand what this part of your post is supposed to mean?

[poorme]

If I am the winner, I will hate myself if I call them fools.

[poorme]

Up to this point and from this event, it implies that the security signal is sirening for both sides :
1. The potential buyer who is thinking of buying ebooks from the matrix site
2. The potential seller who think of opening the matrix site

I think Watchdog's site will still be a good one to amplify this.


Is not it quite strange that the seller that sell just legal ebook experienced with such a horrible consequence as if she did something very wrong to the customers.

[spectre]

This is an utter tragedy. Especially considering the fact that the perpetrators were only in it for $25 (not that any amount would have made it OK).

So many people on this, and other forums, are quick to publish personal info and don't consider the implications.

I'm sure that the most vocal proponents of pursuing matrix site owners would scream bloody murder if someone wanted to post their own name, address, etc...

Someone on the ezexpo forum replied to the orginal message that she should get a bigger dog and a gun...If it was me in her place, I'd have pressed all the charges I could and sent the morons to jail... I hope the $25 investment they were trying to recover is worth the reception they'll get in jail. Takes a real man to gang up with his friend and go after a lady and her kids...

If you have a legitimate beef with a matrix site then do your homework...make sure you know what you are talking about and then report it to the BBB or whoever the appropriate authorities are. Taking things into your own hands is asking for trouble. I see so many posts that sound like people believe the ends justify the means, in the name of the greater good.

What's next? ... the pro-matrix side starts stalking Watchdog and Travesty and the other high profile members of the anti-matrix community?

Maybe its time for everyone to rethink their motivations before somebody get irreversibly hurt.

[poorme]

Watchdog should put warning for those who are thinking of opening the ebook matrix sites.
I remember the forum rule said not to mention the name?

There are good and bad sellers. So are there of two kind buyers

[uwantme]

Poorme, This post has to do with the safety of everyone and how far is to far to go in your crusade. And once again for the record the site I will be opening in the furture IS NOT a matrix site so you can quit trying to use that for your posts. Nor did i post this post with the concern of my future sight. As once again it does not apply to me and I know there are ways to keep your information private or like many have done just to post false info.. That however is one of the points I would like to make is that honest site owners whether they be matrix sites or otherwise shouldnt have to lie about their information just to be safe, and that forums like this one that posts peoples personal information and encourage others to take action against them should not be allowed. And your comment

" Is not it quite strange that the seller that sell just legal ebook experienced with such a horrible consequence as if she did something very wrong to the customers."

implies that you believe the seller did something to bring this on herself. No one deserves something like this to them or their family. If those customers of hers feel as if they were being wronged then they should have did their own lawsuit or some other adult, legal method to handle the situation.. There are people in the world who do mean things for no reason or just because THEY feel as if they were wronged. Look at all the road rage incidents- very few of the people who are the victims of road rage attacks do anything wrong but they are attacked anyway.And before anyone can say it I know road rage and matrix sites are two very different things but I think everyone here can understand the example. However if I am interpeting your comment right it is very uncalled for. If I am wrong please tell me what you meant by that statement.

[uwantme]

Originally posted by poorme
Watchdog should put warning for those who are thinking of opening the ebook matrix sites.
I remember the forum rule said not to mention the name?

There are good and bad sellers. So are there of two kind buyers

What kind of warning do you put? Dont open a matrix sight or your personal information could be posted and people can come after you to do you and your family bodily harm. Either way it wouldnt do any good, people will still open matrix sites they will just be more encouraged to put in false information to protect themselves(which just hurts the buyer more because then its easier for the actual bad ones to slip away without a trace) and there will still always be those outraged buyers who what to take justice in their own hands and will recruit others to do the same.

I agree with spectre "Maybe its time for everyone to rethink their motivations before somebody get irreversibly hurt."

[spectre]

A warning for what!?

"You better be careful or the goon squad is going to track you down and and mug you?"

Are you saying its OK for a disgruntled customer to physically attack an owner, so long as you warn them ahead of time that its a "business" risk"? Or are you saying Watchdog should warn prospective owners that this community is unstable and dangerous? That hardly displaces any responsibility from this, or any, forum and its owners and administrator for allowing the practice of posting private information to continue.

How about if we just got out and have ourselves an old fashioned lynching! We'll get all liquoured up and hunt down whoever we think "might" be doing something we don't agree with and let God sort out the innocent! (I'm being sarcastic, nobody go out and do that...)

[poorme]

implies that you believe the seller did something to bring this on herself

I think it is quite strange that the buyers who lost just 25$ have a vicious nerve to do such a thing. I need to know the motivation of the buyer.

[poorme]

I vote "no". I am not that mean as you think

[uwantme]

I know poorme and regardless everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the subject in the polls, thats why I put the poll there.....


lets keep this post on topic and try not to turn it into a battle against each other and focus on the topic at hand...

[spectre]

poorme, I'm glad to hear it.

The thing that ticks me off is that there are people who will go out and do such a thing with so little motivation. It doesn't surprise me because its all too common, just pisses me off. The last thing they need is other people stirring 'em up to go take justice into their own hands.


uwantme, looks like we were thinking and typing along the same lines there for a moment...

[spectre]

sorry poorme, didn't intend to attack you. I edited my previous message.

[mjkski]

I don't think there is anything wrong with posting public infromation. People who run business that take in $160,000 need to be accountable. Public infromation is helpful and needed to help a consumer and the "business" be accoutable. Trust me- you can get anything on anyone for a few dollars. Non-published phone numbers, ssn, addresses, cell phone numbers...you name it you can pretty much get it. There will always be nuts out there who take advantage of the system for crime. But it's no reason to scrap the system. The owner made a mistake in posting her home address. She was prob just a trusting person. There are laws in place for people who use the infro to commit crimes. I still have my questions because she never mentions anything about an arrest or charges. Maybe she forgot to mention something that I feel is relevant to the story. Or maybe she is just trying to buy herself some more time with her financial problems? Sorry- I just don't believe much anymore. I guess I am just a cynic.

[MatrixWatch]

I do not mind if people post the public information. The information is already freely available through sites such as godaddy.com. Therefore, it cannot be proven whether a "stalker" obtained the information through the forums or through the DNS directly.

uwantme, your allegation that a forum owner could be named an accomplice is totally absurd.

I am not willing to act on this new information until I see the police report. The story seems a little far fetched. What I would like you all to do is read my old post on why sites shut down around the first of the month, then re-think some of these reasons that site owners are giving for closing. If this story is true, then I feel horrible for the victims. I do not support those who take violent, physical action toward site owners.

While I would want to do anything in my power to prevent physical harm to site owners, I also understand that DNS information is available to the public in cases such as internet scam. If a matrix-site owner closes up their site and refuses refunds, then the people have every right to that site owner's contact information for legal purposes.

Instead of resorting to physical attacks, I would prefer that people file lawsuits against the matirx sites and their pay companies. This way, the money will be kept at bay until a legal resolution is worked out. Many state laws will order the pay companies and matrix sites to pay out 100% refunds to the victims if the plaintiff's case is successful.

[uwantme]

While some information is publicly availible some is not. When you publicly post it on your boards your allowing anyone in the world to see it. Plus its not just that you guys post personal information on your boards but you encourage people to go after them, maybe not in a violent sense, but you encourage them to call them, harass them, go by their houses, i have read it all on this forum and others.

Therefore, it cannot be proven whether a "stalker" obtained the information through the forums or through the DNS directly.


All the stalker has to do is say hey this is where I got the information from and show them your site where the information is posted and it has just been proven.

uwantme, your allegation that a forum owner could be named an accomplice is totally absurd.

Hey I said if you didnt believe me contact your athorities. And maybe accomplice might not be the right word maybe its accessory, or whatever but I know you can still be charged and you can be sued. Its like the people who sue rap artists when their kids go out and shot someone. If the criminal used your board to aid them in their crimes you can be held accountable for that and you can still be sued by that person or their families. but I mean thats your deal, I was trying to give you a heads up if you choose not to take it oh well..

I am not willing to act on this new information until I see the police report. The story seems a little far fetched.

It doesnt seem that far fetched to me or others of your board. Look at the poll its a very overwhelming response and there really arent that many matrix supporters on here anymore most have been suspended. So most of those votes came from people on your side against matrices who still dont think personal information should be made public. There are tons of nuts out there who do wrong things for the dumbest reasons. Like my road rage example. Thats a pretty elaborate story just to make up and she has no reason to make it up. She openly admitted she closed the site and she is issuing refunds. So why would she make up a story that serves no purpose in aiding her? Shes not saying hey I got beat up in front of my kids so my lists arent moving and Im not giving refunds. Actually her story is about one of the most honest sounding ones I have heard.

And to all the people who say she didnt say she charged them, or they got charged, she never said they didnt either. I mean she went down to the station with her kids and identified them. I think that pretty much means they got charged. With what? Well lets see, theres trespassing, assult, assult and battery, larceny, and probably more than that. Also when the cops pick up people who do things like that the victim doesnt always have to press the charges. Sometimes the city, state, or county she lives in will press the charges.

If a matrix-site owner closes up their site and refuses refunds, then the people have every right to that site owner's contact information for legal purposes.

This lady was issuing refunds and to all of her members, when incidences like hers happen and no one does anything to prevent personal information from being posted it only encourages the site owners to make up information to protect themselves. Then it becomes almost immpossible to trace them and it defeats the whole purpose.

And I didnt say you had to stop providing contact information, I just think it should be sent to the email or PM of the person whos asking for it for a refund, or lawsuit whatever. Instead of posting it where the whole world can see it..

Let me ask you and everyone else a question, just for example, say some "nut" got someones contact information from your board that was publicly posted and decided to serve justice themselves. So they stalk that person down and end up killing them or their kids. You or the person who put the information there dont feel at all responsible for what happened even knowing full well that maybe if that information hadnt been posted on your board with the encourage statements to "contact them" those persons lives could have been saved?

I wouldnt want to live with that on my shoulders. And the reason why your board is a hot spot is because many people know to come here with their matrix problems. You have a lot of unhappy people coming here daily and who knows what any of them might end up doing with the information they recieve from your board. I also agree with spectre that if someone just started posting your personal information and encouraging others to call, harass, etc, just because they dont agree with what your doing you would be upset and probably want your information removed. If any of you say you wont be upset then why dont you go ahead and post all of your personal information here with your complete address and phone number. Then you can take it to other boards and post it there too. Just see how much you like what happens..... I took your suggestion and looked up your imformation for matrixwatch.org at godaddy and the name that came up wasnt Tim, looks like a fake phone number, it only gives a PO Box, and it doesnt even include the state. So whose information is that? Or is it made up? and why are parts of it missing?

Once again to quote spectre because I think he said it best "Maybe its time for everyone to rethink their motivations before somebody get irreversibly hurt."

[MatrixWatch]

No one on this forum has ever encouraged someone to go after a matrix-site owner violently. On the contrary, Matrix Watch was created to encourage legal action. The old EzExpo forum, however, is where rogue action against the owners in encouraged. I will not hinder the members from posting information that is already listed in the public domain. If a matrix site closes down then it is the right of the people to demand an explanation. The public contact information is provided for that purpose.

Your argument in support of the story's validity is that it is true because of the response of your poll. That is not a strong enough argument for me. I want to see the police report. In fact, if someone emails it to me, I will post it here at Matrix Watch in the Downloads section. Until then, I will not change any of the forum rules concerning DNS contact information for the Matrix sites.

The campaign here at Matrix Watch has been successful. There is no reason to go after site owners physically. I doubt that any of the members here were responsible for this attack if it did indeed occur.

[uwantme]

Apperently you were confused by some of the things I said.

First is" No one on this forum has ever encouraged someone to go after a matrix-site owner violently."

I never said that, I said "Plus its not just that you guys post personal information on your boards but you encourage people to go after them, maybe not in a violent sense, but you encourage them to call them"

and you do, I can show you several posts where members are encouraging others to call the numbers listed etc...

Second I never said "Your argument in support of the story's validity is that it is true because of the response of your poll."

I said that other members in the poll agree with me that personal information shouldnt be posted in public forums, NOT that they agreed the womens story was true.

And I see you very neatly left out any reply to this:

"Let me ask you and everyone else a question, just for example, say some "nut" got someones contact information from your board that was publicly posted and decided to serve justice themselves. So they stalk that person down and end up killing them or their kids. You or the person who put the information there dont feel at all responsible for what happened even knowing full well that maybe if that information hadnt been posted on your board with the encourage statements to "contact them" those persons lives could have been saved?"

and to this:

"I also agree with spectre that if someone just started posting your personal information and encouraging others to call, harass, etc, just because they dont agree with what your doing you would be upset and probably want your information removed. If any of you say you wont be upset then why dont you go ahead and post all of your personal information here with your complete address and phone number. Then you can take it to other boards and post it there too. Just see how much you like what happens.....

And Finally for the third time I am not saying that information shouldnt be shared. Just that it shouldnt be posted on the public boards. If someone comes here and asks for contact info so they can contact a closed site, set up a lawsuit etc, just send it to them in a PM or email. You dont have to post it publicly...... On top of that the personal information posted here is not just for sites that have closed. Anytime anyone requested info whether the site was closed or not, whether they were issuing refunds or not, the information was still posted which means its probably getting used for more than just closed sites and refunds...

[MatrixWatch]

Public Domain DNS info for matrix sites may be posted here on the public forums as long as the purpose for posting it abides by the rules set by sites like godaddy.com. The customers of these sites are entitled to this information. Case closed. If someone intends to injure another person then I do not support their actions. I will not howerver change forum policies because of what someone "could" do. If I followed that train of thought out then I would have to close the forum altogether.

[uwantme]

If you refuse to do anything to improve a bad situation when there are other alternatives like sending the info in an email or PM you may not be supporting anything but you sure arent helping to prevent it either and thats just as bad in my opinion. I also think it goes to show just how far your willing to go for your cause and you claim its to help people even though it is possibly hurting others who are also innocent...... And there is no reason you would have to close your whole forums just by making some aspects of it safer....

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by uwantme
I also think it goes to show just how far your willing to go for your cause and you claim its to help people even though it is possibly hurting others who are also innocent......

You are way too accusatory here, and you have no evidence that Matrix Watch has aided any physical attacks on Matrix-Site owners. I do not support illegal moves on matrix sites or the owners. I support lawsuits and reports made to government authorities. Do not use this situation to foster negative opinion toward this site.

[uwantme]

"You are way too accusatory here, and you have no evidence that Matrix Watch has aided any physical attacks on Matrix-Site owners."

I dont believe I ever accused matrix watch of aiding any attacks. I said it was possible and a possibility which if your posting personal information it is a possibility but let me clarify:

I DID NOT intend for anyone to take my comments as that matrixwatch was helping to harm anyone. I was only stating the POSSIBILTIES of what could happen by posting someones personal information. NOT that matrix watch was physical hurting anyone....

[Arzel]

I have been thinking about this issue since I first read the theard earlier today. At first I was in agreement with uwantme (which is probably a rare situation), but after thinking about it I have changed my mind.

I am against the release of personal information for individuals on this site because they are opening themselves up to personal attack, and I think a forum free of that attack is the best way to go. I am also against the release of personal information that is hersay and not verifiable, such as that kid from MN (can't remember the site).

But those individuals which operate a business (whatever that business may be) do not have any right to remain anoynomus. It is important that they be accountable for their actions, and to remain hidden only allows unscrupulous individuals to freely scam others.

I hope that the account which uwantme is referring is not true, and I personally do not condone such activity, but I would not hold this or any forum responsible. As Watchdog has said, this information is freely available.

[poorme]

I change my mind too.


I am with Watchdog :

If a matrix-site owner closes up their site and refuses refunds, then the people have every right to that site owner's contact information for legal purposes

What kind of the business it is that the closure of the owner information is crucial.It is not fair to the customers. The dealer is not selling drugs?????

Maybe we have to collect the site- owner information in the same heading.
to make it easier to obtain.
The statement that discourages people to use the information for their illegal purpose is highlighted( like writing FAQ or TOS). However it is easier to include Godaddy.com link in this website before all the matrix owners changes their address to Iraq.

I do not beleive in the story too. That is why I use "if". Is there anywhere to prove this? 25 dollars can change people to thieves?

[spectre]

What everyone seems to be ignoring is the fact that people will do stupid, violent things for very little money, and sometimes for no reason at all. This forum and others have tolerated, if not encouraged, direct physical retribution for wrongs (real or imagined).

Poorme, you seem to be easily swayed. People should be accountable...but that doesn't mean open season on them.

[poorme]

Let us prove that her story is true before we kill one another with words.
I do not believe the story because the money is 25 dollars.

[spectre]

Here's a related thread at ezexpo...

http://groups.msn.com/EZExpo/englishmatrix.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=47402&LastModified=4675432892349441020&all_topics=1

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by poorme
Let us prove that her story is true before we kill one another with words.
I do not believe the story because the money is 25 dollars.


Are you kiding me! You don't believe 25 dollars is enough... Maybe your missing the real reason, its not the money that motivated them its the fact that they wanted to cycle! THEY WANTED THAT ITEM! That should be motivation enough...

Not just that, you have people going around posting stories about matrix sites only robing you.. THese attackers possibly thought they were scammed.. Hell, thats motivation again!!

Eventhough no one has the pollice report to show you. Do you honestly think someone sits around at home making up such a story? I highly doubt that. I hope this person surfaces and does provide proof for everyone.. cause this is a hot topic..

In addition... I think a lot of you lost track of the inital reason this thread was created. uwantme asked if we think posting personal information on BOARDS is a good thing!!! Im gonna have to toss in my vote with a NO!! it is not good for you or anyone to post another persons personal information publically on a board! WOuld you like it if i announced your name, address and phone number here? Probably not.

As far as Matrix Site owners needing to supply that information yes the should! like any other business, we cant allow that vital information to be hidden as they can scam you.

Let me break down my point to you.
We dont have the right to post personal information on boards! They can provide it on their sites or in their DNS or other areas but YOU do not have the right to post another individuals personal information without their concent.

[Agent|Star]

Well uwantme contacted me and asked me to post this:

======================================

Thanks alot BigStarr. I have been emailing the owner and this is the last response I got from her about the situation:

I had been receiving harassing phone calls for a while.
I just didn't think anything would really come of it.
The men were taken into custody that same night. Me and my 3 children had
to go and identify them. I did press charges against them-Armed robbery, as
one of the men did have a gun. It is still very disturbing to think of what
they did or what they could have done. They were released on bond the
following Monday and the court date is in September. The only thing I can
say is that they are very evil men. I will never ever forget the look in
their eyes that night. It was nothing but hatred. One of the men post
frequently on the ezexpo board.

It took a good while to figure out how to change all of my information on
the internet. I really don't even like getting on the internet anymore
because one of the police detectives said that anyone who knows computers
can hack into mine while I am online.

My son is only a baby, and the girls are 10 and under. They are really
hurting still yet.

I truly did not want to hurt anyone by opening the site.

My attorney told me to change my information on the net and to close the
site, because I just didn't know what to do after that situation.

I am sorry, but I cannot send a copy of the police report to anyone, as it
has all of my personal information on it including the names and ages of my
children. It also has my home city and state where the incident occurred.


I am also working on getting the police report from her. I just told her to cover any parts of it that had her personal info on it and then send it to me, that way only the actual report and charges were visable. I expect an answer back tommorrow.

Thanks for helping out. As im sure you know this should go under the topic Everyone needs to read this or Matrixcom Story

=======================================

[MatrixWatch]

Now the perpetrators in the story have a gun? Here is what I need before this goes any further. Get me the contact information for the attorney and a copy of the police report. It is likely the press would cover a story like this so get me the name of the city it took place and I will contact a few reporters. Please post the city and state that this incident took place in.

[mjkski]

Well it will be interesting to see the police report or something. I think her attorney is an idiot. Lets see---- you get two people mad at you for not getting their item. So what do you do???? Shut down your site and piss off a heck of a lot more people. I am sure most of them are clueless as to what happened and she may have stirred up a bees nest. I guess that's the part that didn't make much sense to me. I guess time will tell. But Armed robbery- is this story now changing? Now the guys had a weapon on them??? Anyway-Watchdog you are right. This is nothing wrong with positing public legal information. People who use the information to commit crimes will be charged and prosecuted. Every time something happens in this world there is always a "shouldn't there be a law" attitude out there. Guess what- criminals don't care about laws or rules.

[Agent|Star]

Well.. I didnt see the story change at all.. I just see more information :cool: It still states attackers visiting her home and attacking her in front of her children.


Get me the contact information for the attorney and a copy of the police report. It is likely the press would cover a story like this so get me the name of the city it took place and I will contact a few reporters. Please post the city and state that this incident took place in.

Well hopefully a copy of the police report will surface with some censorship of names and any information she does not want to share publically. As far as getting you the attornys name and her city and state? Why should she do that? You trying to be a hero WatchDog? Honestly, do you think she'd want to go public with a blow out of new reporters and what not... Come on... Do you not see how she would be uncomfortable.... We are talking about a woman attacked in front of her children...

Lets stop saying "give me proof, give me proof" and be a bit more understanding toward the point of all this! Stop posting PERSONAL INFORMATION in boards.. thats all this thread was made for.

[Agent|Star]

There are 4 yes votes... You have got to be kidding me
Its got to be illegal for someone to post personal information on public boards!?

Like I said.. If i post information on a board that gave out your real name, your address, your phone number without your consent wouldnt you be upset... Don't you agree that is has got to be a bad thing?

To the 4 that voted Yes. You wouldnt mind if I got your personal info and plastered it on boards... Cause by voting Yes you must be fine with it.

[gota2loveit]

stop asking for proof" and be a bit more understanding Stop posting personal information in boards are you useing it for your own Gain you can't help this person I really don't think they need your help when something gets to the point that their is a gun involed you need to but out.A person like you could make more trouble for her family.:mad: Grow up

[mjkski]

Wow- Look Watchdog! Now I think your the one that put the weapon (now I guess its a gun!!!!) in their hand and caused them to do their crime ? Geez- I hope they don't send you to jail now! How do we know where the people got the address? Just because one of them is on a forum doesn't mean that's where he got it from. Maybe he actually knows how to do a Google search? Maybe we should just make Forums illegal -better yet- if we made if where we didn't talk about the Matrix sites and how people can get screwed- then there would not be any way to bitch about it and then everyone would be safe and happy right? Or stop anyone from exchanging any information. Maybe we should make cars and public transportation illegal? That way they could not drive to her house to harm her? Sorry about the sarcasm. So would it been okay to tell a person where to get the information or would that be wrong too? There is a need for public information for public use and scrutiny( for consumers, government, and businesses). All needed in many facets of a free society. It's the losers who threaten her. It's not the information that is bad. Yes to post non-public information would be wrong. Ultimately what really caused the problem was a couple of scumbags who felt they got ripped off and a owner who mistakenly felt it was okay to use her home address for her contact information.

Hey- all I am saying is that usually when you talk with victims of a crime- the "weapon" is the first thing they talk about. Not about a barking dog and "having to give them my purse". People just don't tend to leave out that details because the event is such a scary one and life threatening one. Then does she call 911? No- she calls a neighbor down the street to rescue her in her armed robbery? So you can find a neighbors number after a armed robbery and 911 was not easier to dial? I have had a gun along with a few other weapons pulled on me several times and will never forget the feelings- anger, being afraid, dismay, disbelief and a feeling that my life could of ended with a squeeze of someone's finger. Again- I know I could be wrong. I don't know this women and I just have my doubts. So yes- I would like to confirm this story. Just to put it in my head that this is just not her way of stalling or running from a possible legal and financial problems. Think about it? How many people - even if it's just a few may stop pursuing her if they now feel sorry for her like she is no longer a thief but now a victim. The key to finding truth to a story is to dissect it. When you find flaws then you look further to see if this actually truth or not.

[mjkski]

Hey BigStarr

First of all- if you decide to post your contact information for others to see is it really personal anymore? Get a clue- I think not. No- SHE entered the "world" where she put herself into consumer scrutiny and accountability. Do you think someone managing close to $200,000 should be accountable? If not- maybe next time you need to hire someone- give me a call. But I will only give you a bogus name and non-traceable cell phone number. But, the next time you feel you get taken advantage of by someone you will want to know everything down to the store they shop at to get your money back. Then-Trust me you will love the freedom of public information. Especially when someone gives it to you for free- so you don't have to lose on any more money trying to find them. You will spend hours trying to track someone down to get your money back. Yes, in my business I am accountable- I don't hide from my responsibilites. And if I break the law and if someone feels I did them wrong they can find me. And if they feel the need to threaten me with a weapon at my home- I will use my given rights of killing them or have them arrested. Maybe both!

[northstar5757]

If what happened to this lady is true it in inexcusable. What she was doing was wrong but it does not justify soemthing liek this. I'm still unsure of whether this site should allow public posting of soemone's info. The matrix owners should not remain anonymous but at the same time there are safety issues.

I am very skeptical of the women's story. For one it sound svery similar to a few egold closing story's I have read. This line made me wonder though....

"One of the men is a member of this forum, and I hope he reads this and understands what he has done."

So the guy isn't in jail? He is still allowed on her forums website and is reading her post? ummm ok

Again if this is true my deepest sympathies, but I've read many of these similar con explanations which have been false.

[northstar5757]

"I live in the mountains with no one living close by"


Yet she states two sentences later that she called a police man who lives down the road. .....

[northstar5757]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigStarr
Are you kiding me! You don't believe 25 dollars is enough... Maybe your missing the real reason, its not the money that motivated them its the fact that they wanted to cycle! THEY WANTED THAT ITEM! That should be motivation enough...



Eventhough no one has the pollice report to show you. Do you honestly think someone sits around at home making up such a story? I highly doubt that. I hope this person surfaces and does provide proof for everyone.. cause this is a hot topic..

[B]Let me break down my point to you.

Ok so they went to her house and stole her purse? Why not take her PS2 she herself claims she has one and after all that's what they were on the lists for. Maybe these guys are just total idiots but seems weired to me.

And you obviously havn't seen many scams. The cons explanations almost always pull some type of sympathy story.

Again very sorry if this is true but there are soo many inconsistencies

[northstar5757]

BTW why arn't you guys complaining on the various over pro matrix sites which post personal info about owners? Heck the group uwanteme listed has done ti several times.

[MatrixWatch]

I do not believe the story is true. This person closed up their matrix site and wanted to avoid the retaliation that the other owners faced (reports to authorities, complaints/chargebacks to the pay companies, etc.). So, how does a site owner avoid the onslaught of criticism and have the opportunity to change their DNS info without being called a scam artist? Make up a story like this. Like I said, I am not willing to consider the story true until I see the police report or speak with the reporters in that city (which no one has revealed yet).

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by mjkski
Hey BigStarr

First of all- if you decide to post your contact information for others to see is it really personal anymore? Get a clue- I think not. No- SHE entered the "world" where she put herself into consumer scrutiny and accountability. Do you think someone managing close to $200,000 should be accountable? If not- maybe next time you need to hire someone- give me a call. But I will only give you a bogus name and non-traceable cell phone number. But, the next time you feel you get taken advantage of by someone you will want to know everything down to the store they shop at to get your money back. Then-Trust me you will love the freedom of public information. Especially when someone gives it to you for free- so you don't have to lose on any more money trying to find them. You will spend hours trying to track someone down to get your money back. Yes, in my business I am accountable- I don't hide from my responsibilites. And if I break the law and if someone feels I did them wrong they can find me. And if they feel the need to threaten me with a weapon at my home- I will use my given rights of killing them or have them arrested. Maybe both!


Please go through page 3 and read my first post again. I dont want to repeat myself.

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by northstar5757
Sorry didn't mean "the promatrix board" (I forgot about that). I mean the promatrix forums that exist all over the net, for example the EZexpo forum or the old matrix news forum.

I thought about this and I beleive that it is ok to post a persons contact info on a forum if three condtitions are met.

1) The customers have no way of contacting the owner
2) The website has shutdown or gone offline/innactive
3) The info is availible on a public website, eg whois.com


I respect that a lot... It is the most to the point post i have seen in this thread.


On the flip side, I think that no matter what it should not be publically posted. I believe the following is important:

01. Matrix site owners are required to provide real contact information within their site / newsletters / dns. This is to stop possible scamming.

02. If a site does close down or the owners mysteriously vanish then a customers has the right to begin investigating truth behind the closure.

03. I think it is perfectly fine to seek help in the forum to gain the owners contact information. However the transfere of personal information should be handled in private not publically posted. (This way you know who you gave the information to should something serious happen).


I dont agree with publically posting it. The site owners should do that on their own. If you need to share information on the site owners due it being a bad site then share that info in private.

That is how I see things, regaurding public posting of personaly info.

[northstar5757]

I agree as well. Although I would never invest in a matrix site I have told others that you shouldn't do business with anybody online who doesn't have proper contact info.

[mjkski]

I know I can get a little long winded and I am sure I am not going to change anyone's mind like Bigstarr. Kind of like arguing about politics and religion. I understand your point but to me it is like hiring the burglar to guard the bank at night- sorry I don't trust them.
Here- Since you like numbers :)

1. What point do we determine they have up and left and took off? Do we let the web site go down for 2 days or 30 days? And who is going to supervise and govern this? Who is going to double check all the address that they list in their web sites? I will tell you who- the consumer- the consumer needs access to that information before, during and after a transaction. That way they can make a individual decision on to send that person any money.

2. All legitimate business, contractors are publicly listed though most state web sites licensing bureaus. I guess the State has pretty much taken the attitude that you need to be accountable, reputable and not afraid to have your information flying on the www. To me there is really no difference to a post on this board as opposed a to a web site to locate the info. Maybe I am missing something though.

3. Privately get the info? So do I have to mail in a request and give them another 30 days to run with the money and spend it?

4. And finally if they post their info on their web site and the web site goes down how do we now get the contact info? I can't remember to write down my mothers address let alone some web site.

[mjkski]

northstar5757 You are correct- It's not an investment. I kind of treat the Matrix game like playing in Vegas. If you got some "fun money" and see what happens then have at it. I think the odds are just about the same. Maybe not that good- but I think you get my point. Dont throw any money at them if you can't afford to lose it. :D

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by mjkski
I know I can get a little long winded and I am sure I am not going to change anyone's mind like Bigstarr. Kind of like arguing about politics and religion. I understand your point but to me it is like hiring the burglar to guard the bank at night- sorry I don't trust them.
Here- Since you like numbers :)

1. What point do we determine they have up and left and took off? Do we let the web site go down for 2 days or 30 days? And who is going to supervise and govern this? Who is going to double check all the address that they list in their web sites? I will tell you who- the consumer- the consumer needs access to that information before, during and after a transaction. That way they can make a individual decision on to send that person any money.

2. All legitimate business, contractors are publicly listed though most state web sites licensing bureaus. I guess the State has pretty much taken the attitude that you need to be accountable, reputable and not afraid to have your information flying on the www. To me there is really no difference to a post on this board as opposed a to a web site to locate the info. Maybe I am missing something though.

3. Privately get the info? So do I have to mail in a request and give them another 30 days to run with the money and spend it?

4. And finally if they post their info on their web site and the web site goes down how do we now get the contact info? I can't remember to write down my mothers address let alone some web site.


Hehhee Watchdog says matrix supporters are the ones who stray from the topic.. Well what is this? Open a new thread with your questions. :D I would really like to answer your questions but they need to be in a place all their own.

[mjkski]

I was just asking you questions of topics you and a few others brought up about posting of information. This is all about that- no spin here! These all refer to previous post in this tread- no new topics here from me. :confused: Maybe you should go back to your last post on this thread to refresh your memory. New topic?- So how was your weather today? - Now that is a new topic!!!! :D LOL

Wait I will help you. Maybe this will help?

Your #01- see my #01 #02 and #04
Your #02- see my #01
Your #03- my #03---Wow same number this time

Sunday night- I am tired- Hope everyone had a good weekend.
:D Whoops- I slipped out another new topic. Or was that just a comment or closing? WDog you let me know and call the shot on this one.

[mjkski]

Sorry BigStarr- I was just trying to add a little humor and keep things light. I guess my humor needs work. I was not trying to offend you. Please accept my apology if that's what I did.

[uwantme]

okay I will get my topic back on track now.. To answer mjkskis questions

1. does not apply to this topic

2. The difference between researching and finding someones personal information on your own and posting it publicly on a board is this. On boards like matrixwatch you have alot of angry people coming here. When they see the persons personal information they are mad at they might decide to take justice in their own hands instead of seeking help from matrixwatch members. Most do not know they can look look it up on their own and if they do they probably wouldnt be coming to this board for help.

3. I when I said privately get the information I meant from here. Not the sites. Even if a site closes their DNS information is still listed. If they have false DNS information more than likely the information on there site was false to so it still dont matter if the site has closed. Now if someone needs the DNS information for a refund etc.. they can come here and ask for it. Then instead of posting someones personal information in a public board whoever decides to help them can send it to them in a PM or email. That way the member still gets helped and personal information stays put of the forums.

4. this is answered in number 3.

Bottom line everyone here knows they wouldnt want their personal information plastered all over the internet especially if it could bring them harm. Whats the saying " do unto others as you want them to do unto you"


Now lets stay on this topic about whether or not personal information should be posted and abou the incidence with the woman...

[hurley9192]

After reading all this, the story seems fishy...I am very sorry for her and her family is this indeed did happen, but it is a very good reason for keeping upset cyclers at bay by giving a good story, plus it has a lot of inconsistencies.

However, if someone is going to get involved in this world where there are a lot of shady characters out there, then there is a risk. It's not like she was running some kid's toy store. She was running an internet site that is based on a get rich quick scheme for people that want to get something for a fraction of the price by taking advantage of others who don't sign up as fast as them. The closer you get to crossing the line, the riskier your livelihood becomes because you are getting closer to people that would do something like this. Also, if you are going to run a website selling something, then you have to list appropriate contact info for people to get a hold of you. Therefore, if you make your life a public forum by running your business from your home, you have no rights to privacy of your business' contact info.

I don't think that you should post their private info as a retaliation, but if people are searching for a business, then they have the right to know the info.

[mjkski]

If I know one thing for sure- is I am not going to change your mind- uwantme and bigstarr

I understand what you are trying to do with protecting people from losers and scumbags. You just want to make it a little more difficult to get the PUBLIC information. I don't want people threatened or placed in danger. But if they are afraid, there are several legal steps they can do to help prevent this. Like a post office box or similar mailing service. I guess I believe in being responsible for yourself and protecting yourself as opposed to making my dealings everyone else's problems. We are providing a business address and info- if they opt to list their home address for that- then that was their choice.

I can see your not against the info being available. But I really think it's splitting hairs. The Public info is out there- will be out there-needs to be available- and there will always be the dirtbag who will take advantage of it. But its no reason to change the system all for a couple people who use the info for iniquitous activities. They will be dealt with by established laws that are already in place

Oh yea- plus everything hurley9192 said :D I couldn't of said it better.

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by hurley9192
website selling something, then you have to list appropriate contact info for people to get a hold of you. Therefore, if you make your life a public forum by running your business from your home, you have no rights to privacy of your business' contact info.

I don't think that you should post their private info as a retaliation, but if people are searching for a business, then they have the right to know the info.

There is no gray area. The information is public or it is not. So are you saying that a site like this, one that literally asks for the trust of people should not be public just because they do not sell anything. Wrong!! They should be able to know who they are trusting.

[hurley9192]

I don't really understand your reply...what I'm saying is that if you are going to put yourself in the public eye by starting a business and accepting money from people, then you have to have your info public for customer service and such.

However, someone shouldn't just post another's info on a website as a retaliatory procedure.

[hurley9192]

Also, I don't think that your's or my info is public just because we post on this forum, but Watchdog's probably is because he put his lawsuit and everything all over this site. However, if he hasn't volunteered his phone number, and if you have it, then you shouldn't post it here so that people call him.

She lost the right to a lot of privacy when she ran her business from home and didn't set up a PO Box. Also, she put herself and her family in a risky situation by getting involved in something that is treading the line between legal and illegal. When you have something surrounding a "get rich quick" idea, you will have shady characters around and are opening yourself up to situations like this.

However, if she was running a successful site, then how do you do it when you are nowhere near anything else? Wouldn't it be almost impossible to run a website nowadays without a cable modem or fast connection? It would take forever to download anything. However, I don't know a lot about this, but it just seems like it would be close to impossible.

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by hurley9192
Also, I don't think that your's or my info is public just because we post on this forum, but Watchdog's probably is because he put his lawsuit and everything all over this site. However, if he hasn't volunteered his phone number, and if you have it, then you shouldn't post it here so that people call him.

However, if she was running a successful site, then how do you do it when you are nowhere near anything else? Wouldn't it be almost impossible to run a website nowadays without a cable modem or fast connection? It would take forever to download anything. However, I don't know a lot about this, but it just seems like it would be close to impossible.

Well by watchdogs on words, and posts on this site, if you have a website then your DNS information is public with the exception that you do not use it to harmful manner.

Most sites that are of any stature use a hosting company, so the being in the middle of nowhere does not apply.

[MatrixWatch]

My stance on DNS posting is stated in the forum rules.

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by watchdog
I do not believe the story is true. This person closed up their matrix site and wanted to avoid the retaliation that the other owners faced (reports to authorities, complaints/chargebacks to the pay companies, etc.). So, how does a site owner avoid the onslaught of criticism and have the opportunity to change their DNS info without being called a scam artist? Make up a story like this. Like I said, I am not willing to consider the story true until I see the police report or speak with the reporters in that city (which no one has revealed yet).

Well I dont believe that you should be calling anyone a liar without facts to support this issue one way or the other.
You stated "This person closed up their matrix site and wanted to avoid the retaliation that the other owners faced (reports to authorities, complaints/chargebacks to the pay companies, etc.)." This is basically stating that it is a lie. Does not look good!!

[mjkski]

Matrixfriendly- I have to agree with Watchdog- I pretty much believe about 10 percent of what I read and 50 percent of what I see. Hey- just send us some proof and we can all put this to bed. You do have to admit though- it would be a great way to avoid some of the pressures of people looking for their money. I just saw a post on another board with a person basically saying that they spent a lot of money with her- but don't worry about it because they feel sorry for her. Interesting.