YMMSS Witch hunt

[swishnev]

YMMSS has yet to process this week because of problems with their new servers. This has caused a bit of an uproar in their forums and members who have been asking questions have been deemed to be "negative" members and are having their forum privileges "expelled" or "suspended". I know this because I have had this happen to me this morning.

[surfer]

Welcome to MatrixWatch.

Sorry to hear that swishnev. Just like the rising cycle
times, greater censorship is most likely inevitable on
the YMMSS forums. It's not unlikely that the forums
could get closed completely in the not too distant
future.

"Businesses" like YMMSS can not stand up to logical,
realistic questions.

The pay structure is fatally flawed if YMMSS wants
to be a legitimate business.

I expect members like lionking and a handful of others
to suffer the same fate as you.

[swishnev]

I did go ahead and put a ticket into the Help Desk asking where I would be able to get YMMSS information so i could stay up to date with YMMSS since I am a member. Needless to say I have yet to receive an answer.

[surfer]

Do you fall under the "mild banishment" category?

According to Esto's post, they haven't had to ban
anyone for more than a week or two yet.

LOL, we can keep you updated. ;)

[swishnev]

I'm pretty sure I'm done. I received a very wordy email from Esto this morning before I told him I would post as I had before because the TOU's are so subjective. In the past 20 mins I have posted, or tried to post in the Guest Forum asking for help on recent CT's and processing payouts only to have my posts deleted. Why would they do that?????

[Gringo]

Yes it appears they are once again cracking down after a period of somewhat loosened controls. The negative posts would have increased dramatically after the servers were up and the impact on cycle times was zero, so this new policy will effectively suppress those complaints.

[surfer]

They could be matching up your IP address and just deleting
your posts based on that.

If you hope to be allowed back in, you need to put on a skirt
and some pom poms. The forums are owned by YMMSS. It's
not in their best interest for people to have their eyes opened
to the realities of the situation.

And no, processing has not started as of yet today since you
can still change your payment option in your back office.

I'll let you know if and when they start processing today. ;)

[swishnev]

this is all ridiculous.....this must have been what it was like to watch the titanic sink. except ymmss isn't the force the titanic was

[Cross]

Hey there swishnev, it's your buddy Cross. I have been reading this board for months but just signed up once I read your post. It's not that big of a loss not to be able to access the YM board. I have only been stopping by about once a week and my weeks have gotten so much better. But I know I would be mad if one of the Mods locked me out. I do know one Mod there that at least understands both sides of the issues so I will send her a PM and see if I can find out anything.

[swishnev]

thanks cross

[concerned]

In the past 20 mins I have posted, or tried to post in the Guest Forum asking for help on recent CT's and processing payouts only to have my posts deleted. Why would they do that?????

This is easy to answer. If they leave negative posts on the forum, they cannot scam new people. How do you expect them to keep getting revenue if everyone confirms on the forum that it is a scam.

[swishnev]

agreed, but I am not making it that blatant. it is not hard to prove the point using simple math and they refuse to even let members ask questions that they deem "negative". it's just completely horrible. i feel bad for the thousands of people who have a lot of money in it that they are counting on getting back. there have not been any new posts in the guest forums and i've now sent 2 help tickets to the help desk and neither have been answered. i did receive a warning from a mod in the member forum portion where you post to use your epc's as ads.

[surfer]

No processing until Friday.

http://www.ymhelp.com/?_a=announcements&_m=details&_i=142

[swishnev]

so they are going to process once this week? it's going to be a huge payday obviously and then people will think he's god again. god could get servers to work, kim inman can not

[swishnev]

i've now received my final warning in the forums where i paid $10 for each epc which gives me the right to post/advertise, etc....

[surfer]

so they are going to process once this week? it's going to be a huge payday obviously and then people will think he's god again. god could get servers to work, kim inman can not

I don't think members will be thrilled with a 6 or 7
jump in cycle times all at once.

With the recent trends, I'd be surprised to see
anything more than $400K to $500K "paid" for a
week's worth of processing.

[surfer]

i've now received my final warning in the forums where i paid $10 for each epc which gives me the right to post/advertise, etc....

I don't know what you're posting in there, but
apparently it's violating something. ;)

Since you are now hanging out on the wrong
side of the tracks, your days may be numbered.

Soon we will be able to exchange cheeseburger
relish recipes (http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showpost.php?p=23426&postcount=64) with you. lol

[swishnev]

two things: 1) i don't like cheeseburger relish and don't even know what it is, and 2) it's amazing how when he says something that people don't agree with he gets all mad and talks about how its him against everyone, but when it happens in the ymmss forums its all those people (probably him included) bashing. hypocritical

[drzod]

In light of the comments here, do I dare try to post any of my typical intriguing questions to the Gold, Silver, and General forums any time soon? I never registered at ymforums.com because I do not see the point. Everything there is rainbows, puppies, and nirvana. If I received my information from there I would think YMMSS is the best business in the whole world. After all, according to Viper et all, YMMSS is the best! Whatever.

[swishnev]

dr. zod i guarantee if you post your questions in those forums you will quickly receive the same "final warning" that i received :nono: :)

[drzod]

The last time I did it, Kim called me personally and I got 2-3 members registered here. I guess my time of allowing members to see the light is coming to a close.

[swishnev]

i wonder if he'll call me tonight then, ha! i hope he does, i've got some questions for him

[drzod]

How about I try this one:

Using the most recent entry in the YMMSS Activity forum, the date was 06/17/05 and the cycle time is 237 days.

06/17/05 minus 237 days = processing commissions from 10/23/04.

It took 20 days to process 10/21/05, and 5 days to process 10/22/04 (thank you Kim for the $300 K). Is it possible that the new servers will significantly reduce this fluctuation? By processing each day (instead of 3 times a week), it should at least cut the time in half. This would make a huge impact on cycle times and really lift members' spirits!

I would not post this but....

(Of course I know the truth is that the processing will remain the same or increase, but to get people to respond I need to start a dialog).

[swishnev]

you do realize they can take your membership, and all money you cycled, away whenever they feel like it. i'd be careful if you have a good stash of cash in YMMSS

[surfer]

Pat Humphrey, lead ad moderator, stated that negative
"ads" will be deleted and forwarded to admin as well.

This would all be very funny if it weren't such a sad
thing for members who were lied to.

[drzod]

I've only invested $370 (hey according to My YMMSS it is worth $5920), and never gotten paid (always set to repurchase). I have come to terms that I have lost my investment so I really do not care what they do. My goal is to get members to come over here and view the opinions on this site. I need to keep my account activated in order to do so, but I also need to generate responses to my YMMSS in box.

[swishnev]

amazing thing is that in one of his last conference calls kim stated that 98% of the members stick around after they cycle.

[Salsa]

Welcome Swishnev & Cross,

It's good to see you both here. If you are using the same usernames that you do at YMMSS, however, that alone may be a YMMSS death knell for you, as surfer suggested, and it could turn worse than being kicked out of YMMSS. Perhaps someone with more experience than I can confirm my concerns and make suggestions of what precautions to take.

To other YMMSS members who are tempted to chime in, you are certainly welcome, but you might wish to keep your YMMSS id anonymous, at least in public. Keep in mind that YMMSS (and some faithful-member friends) have a great deal of personal information about you, and if your own faith in YMMSS is breaking, the repercussions of identifying yourself publicly could go far beyond being locked out of the YM forum.

this is all ridiculous.....this must have been what it was like to watch the titanic sink. except ymmss isn't the force the titanic was

I think there is a larger difference than that. While the Titanic was a passenger ship that was designed to float, YMMSS is more like a pirate ship that was designed to sink--after fleecing its passengers. A harsh simile, I know, but I think it is very accurate.

How could it be? Imagine boarding that ship, welcomed by the captain's winning smile and captivated by his promises of riches across the sea. He speaks of his treasure maps to pique your interest. He won't show them to you, of course, and who can blame him for not!? But for a small fare, to pay for safe passage, a part of the treasure can be yours! And to build your confidence, he gives you some samplings from the treasure, a few gold coins here and there, as if they were nothing to him. And although the voyage is fraught with unforeseen obstacles and mounting expenses that must be shared, it will all be worthwhile, he promises. Besides, what an exciting voyage it is! Then, one morning you awaken, becalmed on a foggy sea. The captain is gone. There is no map or compass. The ship has been holed and is sinking. You have been robbed of what little you had left. Where did the nice captain go?

That's the proper analogy between YMMSS and a ship. And, somehow, the nearer the treasure is reported to be, ever more problems seem to crop up.

Do you really think that it's a coincidence that the new servers are online and the first thing that happens is that payments are not made as promised? No. It's all part of the plan.

While it has long been touted that the "new servers" will give YMMSS the capacity for great growth, their real function has been to create further excuses for current failure and to offer future hope. After many months of waiting for the servers and many weeks of "testing" to make sure that they were working "perfectly" before putting them online, they've already served well as a stall tactic for all that time.

Never mind how inexpensive servers are these days, or how advanced the available technology is for managing a small operation like YMMSS, or even that the YMMSS "business" is now only a small fraction of what it was seven months ago--when all payments were processed manually. Those are not the core issues. If the need for new servers had ever been a real issue, they could have been implemented in days, or even hours. And a business planned with any foresight would have foreseen their need well in advance, integrating them seamlessly.

In any case, there has never been a need to shut the YMMSS sites down in order to process payments. Connections to the payment processors would have been the largest overhead, but still minimal--especially if done at off-peak hours. And the actual server processor time would be all but insignificant. Don't forget that this was all done manually at YMMSS's peak. As a Web developer, I've automated many processes that were once done manually, turning 50-hour jobs into 5-minute jobs--and that 5-minutes is processor time, not man hours. The actual man hours is, like, 5-seconds, and the computer goes to work in the background, paced however you program it.

And even if an additional server ever were necessary for payment processing, it would be practically nothing to set it up with mirrored databases and to lock whatever records were being processed (either for purchases or payments) at a given moment. So the shortcomings of the "old servers" has always been nothing but a means to excuses.

And the "new servers" are only a means to continue the server-based excuses after the old ones had been used for overly long. Of course, one of the first things they would fail at is making payments! If payments are resumed, don't expect that to be the end of the new servers' shortcomings. I can hear it now: "Gosh, the technology of these new servers is so advanced that they won't let us continue doing some of the simple things that we used to do for members.... Some information that we used to make available to members as a matter of course will no longer be available. Sorry." Right.

Salsa

[swishnev]

salsa, i have to compliment you on your writing. that was very ingenious how you compared it with the pirate ship. ha! i thought about printing that out to read to my child someday. i'm already out of ymmss, they can't do anything now can they?

[surfer]

:D, I was admiring that pirate tale as well.

Some people just have a gift.

[200_K_already]

Ah, glad to see Im quoted here, there and thither.

Infamy, infamy they all have it infamy

[swishnev]

i don't see where you are quoted on this thread 200k, you can "hope" for it though in the future.

[ComplexKid]

There is already something posted over in the YM forum about how the new servers caused problems with certain records, so if you logged in and changed anything between certain dates, it's probably been lost.

Welcome to www.we-don't-make-backups-for-our-multi-million-dollar-ponzi.com

[swishnev]

that was funny complex

[surfer]

i don't see where you are quoted on this thread 200k, you can "hope" for it though in the future.

It was the cheeseburger relish reference, swishnev. :)
That was from your buddy Alan, YMForum mod.

[200_K_already]

Surfer says!




As I also said before - you sad and diminutive individuals hide behind your little PC's and your online ID's. I am open, why are you not? Who do you think has more cred amongst the visitors here!

(I can feel a math torrent coming on)

Al's yer pal

[liveandlearn]

Surfer says!



As I also said before - you sad and diminutive individuals hide behind your little PC's and your online ID's. I am open, why are you not? Who do you think has more cred amongst the visitors here!

(I can feel a math torrent coming on)

Al's yer pal

200_K_already,

I have been reading these post for quite a while and all I see from you is anger. You claim to be a Christian and the post that have come from you are not real Christ-like. I wonder what He would think about the things that you have said in here? Can you give me real numbers like the others in this forum? All that people ask for is facts that can be backed up. Those facts would give credibility. So far all I see from you is name calling, verbal attacks and "just wait and see" If you or anyone at YMMSS could just come forward with concrete information it would sure be nice. I have been in YMMSS since Jan and have not seen anything but delay after delay. Please just show people how you think that money can be doubled forever and sustain itself. Where is that huge amount of money going to come from? If those types of investments are legit then why doesn't every wealthy person in the world invest like Kim does? Math is an important element. It is strange to me that if you ask simple questions in the forum or from anyone in the YMMSS "circle" The only answers you get are either a deleted post or anger and name calling or "you just don't have enough faith" or "you just have to trust Kim". Faith will not bring back the money that people have lost and it will not heal the families and friends that have been hurt by this. Please if you could.. don't call names and slander people. Lets just debate the issues with as adults and make it our goal to try and help those that may have lost or feel they are losing money. If you have real answers that can be pushed with a pencil you would win much more credibility with all of us both pro and con YMMSS.

Thanks!
Liveandlearn

[Gringo]

Surfer says!

As I also said before - you sad and diminutive individuals hide behind your little PC's and your online ID's. I am open, why are you not? Who do you think has more cred amongst the visitors here!

(I can feel a math torrent coming on)

Al's yer pal

No math torrent here. As I stated in a previous reply to you, facts are irrelevent to one of the sheep like you. You believe what you want to believe despite the facts. Unless the words come from the mouth of Kim, they hold no value for you. As proven for all here to see by your lack of logical, rational responses to the flaws of YMMSS posted in this forum.

So go forth, keep buying those EPCs and keep dreaming how one day you'll be rich from YMMSS. The rest of us will save a few people from loosing money to this ponzi if we are lucky and get on with earning a legitimate income in our professions.

[Cross]

I use my username in all the same places, not shy to hide who I am. I have not said or do say anything that is untrue yet it is deemed as negative. As for YM using my information for bad reasons, I guess it is a possibility but doubtful. I do have one little back up and that is my sponsor who I know very well has known Kim for 20 years. Plus I don't have any money any way so using my information wouldn't do any one much good.

[Salsa]

i'm already out of ymmss, they can't do anything now can they?
If you think that the powers that be at YMMSS are crooks at heart, as I do, you might worry that they have SS#s, CC#s, DL#s, etc.--everything necessary for the future identity theft of many members. Even if you think the probability of that is remote, given that ID theft victims spend an average of 600 man-hours to remedy the problem--to say nothing of the exorbitant expense and intervening years of "inconvenience"--it might be reasonable to begin heading the possibility off at the pass, now.

The possibility of physical violence also exists. I'm not saying it will come to that, and being a small fish makes it an even more remote possibility, but it would be nice to not have to think about it at all. Nevertheless, physical violence is often a part of a fraudster's end game--especially when he's been frying a big fish. 419 frauds, for example, routinely end in physical violence, and even murder is not uncommon.

Again, I don't mean to be overly alarming, but some degree of physical violence is something to be wary of. For example, I have to wonder about Alan's motive for continuously pressing for the RL identities of members of this forum. To me, he comes across as a very angry and inarticulate whack job, and if he were in my neighborhood and knew my address, I would fully expect him to at least key my car.

So my advice would be to take whatever privacy precautions you can, without wrecking your life over it, and to keep your eyes open.

And, Alan, thank you for your continued returns to this forum. You make an ideal ambassador for YMMSS.

Salsa

[Salsa]

Cross,

That having no money thing is my main MO for security, too ;)

Salsa

[bowmaker]

hello cross and swishnev , figured i'd just as well join as you 2 did . i to have been reading these forums for a while .

[surfer]

Welcome to MatrixWatch bowmaker.

You too Cross.

Your thoughts on any of our comments are
more than welcome, whether you agree or
disagree.

[drzod]

Salsa, per your post yesterday regarding physical violence and identity theft, I changed all my personal information on the YMMSS website. They probably store the original record, but at least it is not sitting out there now. I'm not sure if the database overwrites the data when it refreshes or not. Is there any way we can find out? If the data gets overwritten each time processing occurs, we should start a new thread directing people registered on this site to remove their personal information from YMMSS. Even if the data does not get overwritten, it would probably be a good idea to remove this information before things really start going downhill.

[Salsa]

DrZod,

The common practice would be that the data in the active database would be overwritten immediately. I don't know YMMSS's backup policy, but at least daily database backups for an operation like YMMSS would be reasonable, keeping the old information around for longer. Because financial transactions are involved much more frequently would actually be reasonable. Backups are typically stored off the server and used only if the active database becomes corrupt or crashes, then overwritten when a newer, clean, backup is made. It's impossible to say what backups might have been archived over months or even years, however. But, in any case, making the updates you did seems like a good idea.

Salsa

[swishnev]

received an email today saying that since i paid with credit card my money would be going back there instead of to my intgold account. it also stated kim was working on doing this as the email was sent (yesterday). i checked this morning and no money deposited as of yet.

[happy]

If you think that the powers that be at YMMSS are crooks at heart, as I do, you might worry that they have SS#s, CC#s, DL#s, etc.--everything necessary for the future identity theft of many members. Even if you think the probability of that is remote, given that ID theft victims spend an average of 600 man-hours to remedy the problem--to say nothing of the exorbitant expense and intervening years of "inconvenience"--it might be reasonable to begin heading the possibility off at the pass, now.

The possibility of physical violence also exists. I'm not saying it will come to that, and being a small fish makes it an even more remote possibility, but it would be nice to not have to think about it at all. Nevertheless, physical violence is often a part of a fraudster's end game--especially when he's been frying a big fish. 419 frauds, for example, routinely end in physical violence, and even murder is not uncommon.

Again, I don't mean to be overly alarming, but some degree of physical violence is something to be wary of. For example, I have to wonder about Alan's motive for continuously pressing for the RL identities of members of this forum. To me, he comes across as a very angry and inarticulate whack job, and if he were in my neighborhood and knew my address, I would fully expect him to at least key my car.

So my advice would be to take whatever privacy precautions you can, without wrecking your life over it, and to keep your eyes open.

And, Alan, thank you for your continued returns to this forum. You make an ideal ambassador for YMMSS.

Salsa

I cannot even believe what I am reading here. I mean really...MURDER. Do you all really believe that anyone in YMMSS really cares enough about what you say to actually cause you physical harm?? This isn't the Mafia. I think you are a bit full of yourselves. It bothers me that this even came into your mind. Grow up and quit being so dramatic. I think you're being rather slanderous.
Happy

[surfer]

Welcome to MatrixWatch happy. ;)

Salsa was making a general statement about
protecting yourself from identity theft and
other possible harm.

Salsa also stated:
I'm not saying it will come to that, and being a small fish makes it an even more remote possibility, but it would be nice to not have to think about it at all.

Why don't you ask Viper if one can be too
cautious when dealing over the net?

The lust for money makes people do some
pretty nasty things.

Again, that's just a generalization. We aren't
saying that it's anything likely to happen as
far as YMMSS is concerned.

It's a crazy world.

[drzod]

I doubt it would come to that - Salsa was just expressing a worst-case scenario. However, if YMMSS is found to be a ponzi, what is preventing members from committing identity theft? With names, addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and social security numbers, they would have all the necessary elements. Do I think it will happen - no, but in today's world where you hear about a data breach nearly every day you can never be too careful.

[concerned]

If you think that the powers that be at YMMSS are crooks at heart, as I do, you might worry that they have SS#s, CC#s, DL#s, etc.--everything necessary for the future identity theft of many members.

Why would you all have given this information in the first place. This makes no sense at all, especially having to give that many details when buying a $10 epc. What were you all thinking?

[Cross]

Hey bowmaker, seems some of us are getting pushed out huh?

Anyway just wanted to comment on some other post.

I personally do NOT think Kim and staff are crooks. Like I said in my other post I do have a good friend who has known Kim for 20+ years and says he is a great guy and has a great family. But just because some one is a great guy doesn't mean YMMSS will turn around. I think the situation is simple. We have finally over extended ourselves with membership and now we can't even get close to bringing in the ammount of money we need to pay out. And as more time goes by and CT continues to rise every day things will get even worse.

I don't know what will become of the servers, retail site, etc. If the past history with the new site and servers is any indication then things don't look good.

I personally was lucky enough to get back my innitial investment about a month ago. I feel terrible for all of those who have not. I peronally have only brought in a handful of family and close friends because I am not a recruiter. When things took a turn for the worse more than 6 months ago those relationships began to strain. I decided to give them their innitial investment back out of my pocket I felt so bad. Thankfully they had all gone in small because they were very skeptical of YM. Crap, since I paid them back out of my pocket I guess I am not back to even after all. :head:

As for the ID theft I just changed all my info, just incase. I will change it back once it's time for 1099's.

[200_K_already]

200_K_already,

I have been reading these post for quite a while and all I see from you is anger. You claim to be a Christian and the post that have come from you are not real Christ-like. I wonder what He would think about the things that you have said in here? Can you give me real numbers like the others in this forum? All that people ask for is facts that can be backed up. Those facts would give credibility. So far all I see from you is name calling, verbal attacks and "just wait and see" If you or anyone at YMMSS could just come forward with concrete information it would sure be nice. I have been in YMMSS since Jan and have not seen anything but delay after delay. Please just show people how you think that money can be doubled forever and sustain itself. Where is that huge amount of money going to come from? If those types of investments are legit then why doesn't every wealthy person in the world invest like Kim does? Math is an important element. It is strange to me that if you ask simple questions in the forum or from anyone in the YMMSS "circle" The only answers you get are either a deleted post or anger and name calling or "you just don't have enough faith" or "you just have to trust Kim". Faith will not bring back the money that people have lost and it will not heal the families and friends that have been hurt by this. Please if you could.. don't call names and slander people. Lets just debate the issues with as adults and make it our goal to try and help those that may have lost or feel they are losing money. If you have real answers that can be pushed with a pencil you would win much more credibility with all of us both pro and con YMMSS.

Thanks!
Liveandlearn


Firstly, I have no interest whatsoever in answering your questions by the way, and as for what Christ would say about my posts in this forum - I doubt He would be interested. You must understand that Jesus is interested in peoples hearts, not their outward appearance. Maybe you should be concerned about your own soul and not mine.

As for winning credibility in this forum! Are you kidding? Do you think Im interested in gaining credibility in this snake pit?

Get real.

[200_K_already]

No math torrent here. As I stated in a previous reply to you, facts are irrelevent to one of the sheep like you. You believe what you want to believe despite the facts. Unless the words come from the mouth of Kim, they hold no value for you. As proven for all here to see by your lack of logical, rational responses to the flaws of YMMSS posted in this forum.

So go forth, keep buying those EPCs and keep dreaming how one day you'll be rich from YMMSS. The rest of us will save a few people from loosing money to this ponzi if we are lucky and get on with earning a legitimate income in our professions.


one of the sheep like you. Okay you baaaaad boy.

Unless the words come from the mouth of Kim, they hold no value for you. You words have no value to me, you are correct there.

So go forth, keep buying those EPCs and keep dreaming how one day you'll be rich from YMMSS. Thank you, I will.


and get on with earning a legitimate income in our professions. Is this a profession? So is prostitution - doesn't make it right.

[swishnev]

alan, thanks for adding your opinion today, no one cares. you weren't very intelligent before and you still aren't to this day. continue doing what you are doing and maybe you'll figure it out someday.

[200_K_already]

If you think that the powers that be at YMMSS are crooks at heart, as I do, you might worry that they have SS#s, CC#s, DL#s, etc.--everything necessary for the future identity theft of many members. Even if you think the probability of that is remote, given that ID theft victims spend an average of 600 man-hours to remedy the problem--to say nothing of the exorbitant expense and intervening years of "inconvenience"--it might be reasonable to begin heading the possibility off at the pass, now.

The possibility of physical violence also exists. I'm not saying it will come to that, and being a small fish makes it an even more remote possibility, but it would be nice to not have to think about it at all. Nevertheless, physical violence is often a part of a fraudster's end game--especially when he's been frying a big fish. 419 frauds, for example, routinely end in physical violence, and even murder is not uncommon.

Again, I don't mean to be overly alarming, but some degree of physical violence is something to be wary of. For example, I have to wonder about Alan's motive for continuously pressing for the RL identities of members of this forum. To me, he comes across as a very angry and inarticulate whack job, and if he were in my neighborhood and knew my address, I would fully expect him to at least key my car.

So my advice would be to take whatever privacy precautions you can, without wrecking your life over it, and to keep your eyes open.

And, Alan, thank you for your continued returns to this forum. You make an ideal ambassador for YMMSS.

Salsa


Compliments Salsa? Very decent of you, thanks you.


Actually, Im not representing anyone but myself.

Cross, it shows the type of people that come here when they refer to YM staff as crooks. Do yourself a favour and take NO advice in this forum. YM would never use your ID for criminal purposes.

I come here for sport - no other reason. The members in here get a chance to scream at a perceived villain and make comments about me. BUt, if you trawl through the posts they have put up you will see nothing but lies, poison, conjecture and every vile notion known to man.

They try to moralise with me but forget who they are and what they are - a gossip club that make up 90% of the information within this forum - the other 10% is flawed and tainted.

[swishnev]

i can guarantee (not like the ymmss 90 day CT guarantee) that nothing i have said is made up, a lie, evil, flawed, or tainted. alan you should send viper over here so we can at least have an intelligent conversation instead of a childish dispute.

[juanita40222]

First of all I AM NO LONGER A MEMBER OF YMMSS. I GOT OUT IN TIME. I did however receive this e-mail from YMMSS today. Try to tell me that they are not hedging. What a farce! I read some of the announcement ads today as well. Very sad! People investing their life's savings and having such faith in Kim....It reads as follows.....

Hello!

We have had some issues with the database during the launch of the
new servers and network and we have had to go back and restore from
backups and then add new data to bring the database up to date.

We have been doing this while keeping the website live. While this
great news, it also presents us with a small problem. Because the
website was live, people that had made changes to their profile, or
income options may have had their changes deleted and restored to
what it was. Because of that, we are asking that if you made any
additions or changes on the website between 6/17/2005 at approx.
8pm CST until 6/20/05 at approx. 2:00 PM CST to log back in and
re-perform your submissions/changes as they may not be in the
current database:

The following items may be affected:

- Changes to commission record's (or Order #'s) Income Option

- Claims that were made on a user's "Unclaimed EPC Commissions" page

- User profile changes (whether made by customer or by administrator)
of any kind

- Ad Forum postings/submissions to the General, Gold, Silver, or
Platinum Forums

- Sponsor Ad postings/submissions to post an ad on the main member’s
page

It is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that if you made changes to one of your
commission table records during this time frame (by changing that
record's income option or by claiming that record on your "Unclaimed
EPC Commissions" page) that you login immediately and re-submit the
change and/or claim again. If you do not re-submit your commission
table record change prior to our next scheduled processing (Friday,
6/24/05 at 9am CST), you will risk not getting paid the way you
expected to by making those changes/claims in the first place. We
want to give all affiliates a chance to react to this message and
change/claim what they need to in their commission table records
so everyone gets paid how they expected to. This is the reason why
processing will take place on Friday morning...to allow for
affiliates to correct any changes they made that are now not showing
up.

Sincerely,

Kim (end of e-mail)

I guess if you confuse folks enough they will just give up. "Affiliates" are completely confused.

Juanita

[200_K_already]

I wasn't referring to you Swishy, but you have just satisfied me that I should have been. Im genuinly sorry for you. I feel you have fallen onto a trap and do not know it. You have blown it and only a couple of days ago you were beginning to look more positive. Im sorry you feel the need to insult me like your colleagues here. I dont belive I ever insulted you.

[200_K_already]

Juanita - pathetic as usual.

[juanita40222]

Kim's words......to fortify the troops.....

[surfer]

Actually, Im not representing anyone but myself.
Actually, as a YMForums Moderator, you're behavior
is a direct reflection on YMMSS.

Cross, it shows the type of people that come here when they refer to YM staff as crooks. Do yourself a favour and take NO advice in this forum. YM would never use your ID for criminal purposes.
Whether deliberately or out of ignorance, Kim Inman
created a new type of ponzi scheme. Technically,
he is a criminal.

I'm not quite as certain as some of the others are
about the legitimacy of his long term intentions.

I come here for sport - no other reason. The members in here get a chance to scream at a perceived villain and make comments about me. BUt, if you trawl through the posts they have put up you will see nothing but lies, poison, conjecture and every vile notion known to man.
Unless you enjoy people coming to the YMForums
and antagonizing members and mods, that makes
you a bit of a hypocrite.

And you still have yet to counter any "lies" with
facts of your own.

So Alan, which of the following are lies?

Kim Inman guaranteed members that cycle times
would never go over 90 days.

Kim Inman told members that he had a special
fund set aside to keep cycle times at or below
90 days if it was ever needed.

Kim Inman still claims that the system is designed
to cycle everyone's money within a 60-90 day
time frame.

For several months Kim Inman repeatedly told
members that there was $60K-$70K per week
being put in to the commissions payable account

Those 4 lies alone were/are used to recruit new
members under false pretense.

Those 4 lies also set people up for disappointment
financially and emotionally.

Whether you feel it was deliberate or not Alan,
Kim has repeatedly lied to and/or misled the
members of YMMSS.

Yet this visionary leader continues to blame
everything that goes wrong on "Murphy". So
much for accountability.

They try to moralise with me but forget who they are and what they are - a gossip club that make up 90% of the information within this forum - the other 10% is flawed and tainted.
lol lol Yet another accusation with no facts
to back it up.

[swishnev]

alan, trust me i know exactly what is going on. don't you worry your little scottish head.

[bowmaker]

i have no problem with kim inman or ymmss . i dont know if ymmss will be a sucess or not , but i aparrently am not welcome on the forums because im in a sit and wait mode and dont have my pom poms out .
the problem i have is with the ym forums , i dont need a virtual mommy , especially since i paid to be able to post on the member forums . i see alan can come here and be as rude as he likes and he came here for free , didnt pay one penny to join this forum . but i have money in ymmss and will speak my mind whenever i want and keep the mods like alan busy deleting post , but i garantee a few people will see them before they get deleted.

[200_K_already]

Whether deliberately or out of ignorance, Kim Inman
created a new type of ponzi scheme. Technically,
he is a criminal.

Surfer - you are just stupid.

Swishy - you are just naive.


Surfer, what 'behaviour' do you refer too? I know what's wrong with you - you dont like it when people dont play your little games. I've told you before - your world is too small.

Anyway, there are enough lies to keep you going - why bother with the truth?


Again, you make assumptions based on whatever you like at the time.

[200_K_already]

Bowmaker, why am I rude?

I read the bolony within this sewer, accusing Kim of being a crook, a conman - YM a scam and all the rest of it. But in this forum they are safe and sound behind their usernames. So why should I be polite to people who tell lies and mock everything the business I am involved with try to do for the better?

You tell me? They show me no courtesy - I came here originally to counter their ridiculous claims and I got flayed for it.

I'll be rude alright! You bet.

[200_K_already]

YOu may also notice bowmaker, that no other busines's are criticised within the YMforum either

[concerned]

Surfer - you are just stupid.

Swishy - you are just naive.



I've warned you before. This is the last warning. Follow our rules or you will be banned. You are not allowed to insult anyone on this forum.

[swishnev]

Naive: deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment;

Alan, i am a lot of things, but certainly not this. Try again

[200_K_already]

I've warned you before. This is the last warning. Follow our rules or you will be banned. You are not allowed to insult anyone on this forum.


Ban yourself. You call honest people scammers and conmen.

Is that not an insult?

[concerned]

Ban yourself. You call honest people scammers and conmen.

Is that not an insult?


I am waiting for the proof that they are NOT scammers.

[surfer]

Surfer - you are just stupid.
Opinions vary. :D

[QUOTE=200_K_already]Surfer, what 'behaviour' do you refer too? I know what's wrong with you - you dont like it when people dont play your little games. I've told you before - your world is too small.
Just behavior in general Alan.

I don't consider thousands of people being lied
to and misled a game. Perhaps you do.

My world is Earth. The YMMSS comp plan is
more Fantasy Island.

Anyway, there are enough lies to keep you going - why bother with the truth?
I have to agree there. There are plenty of
Kim Inman lies to work with.

Too bad you seem to be unable to post any
of your "truths". :rolleyes:

Again, you make assumptions based on whatever you like at the time.
And what assumption are you referring to
this time?

[surfer]

I came here originally to counter their ridiculous claims and I got flayed for it.
That's funny.

I haven't seen you post one single thing to
"counter" anything.

Your first post in the IT4US forum was an
insult, and it's been the same thing since.

It would be extremely easy to shut us all
up and prove us wrong Alan.

One simple little proof is all that's necessary.

Prove to us how you can double everyone's
money every 60-90 days without income
and/or membership caps.

It should be extremely easy to do if you
have any idea how "your business" works.

C'mon Alan.

If you can prove that it is possible to do
what Kim Inman claims YMMSS is "designed"
to do, we'll all shut up. I guarantee it. :bow:

[surfer]

I've warned you before. This is the last warning. Follow our rules or you will be banned. You are not allowed to insult anyone on this forum.
Hopefully, you won't feel the need to ban Alan.

He is the perfect example of the typical hardcore
believer/promoter in these schemes.

YMMSS members and potential members will be
able to see that Alan deliberately chooses to
avoid debating the issues. Instead, he opts to
make accusations and throw around insults.

You'd think a "positive thinker" would take the
high road in a discussion.

Guess not.

[200_K_already]

I am waiting for the proof that they are NOT scammers.

So they are guilty until proven innocent? Sounds like the opposite of every justice system in the world. You have just shown your true colours.

Ban me please. I insult you now by calling you a liar.

What a bunch of sad losers. You cant even raise the cash to pay for this forum. Still in debt I see.

Shame.

[ComplexKid]

I think it's important Alan stays around, too. He is a YM staff member, likes to gamble in ponzis like IT4US, throws insults around instead of providing facts. Perhaps if people see that that's the level of professionalism over there, a few less will be cashing in their retirement plans and selling their belongings to buy into YMMSS.

It's going to hurt so many folks when this one goes down.

There were at least two suicides over the IT4US fiasco, Alan, did you know that? Is that the kind of thing you really like to "invest" in?

[danielmeyers]

Perhaps if people see that that's the level of professionalism over there, a few less will be cashing in their retirement plans and selling their belongings to buy into YMMSS.

Yes, I agree. If this 200_K person is actually some Alan person over on the YMMSS forums, and if he's really a forum mod there, then it should be enlightening to YMMSS members to see the insulting posts that he has over here. I have thought for a while that he's just getting some twisted satisfaction out of posting garbage here, and when I saw the "troll" explanation, I get it now.

Daniel

[jokach]

NOTICE TO ALL!

This thread will be closed if the insults and thread hijacking does not stop. KEEP IT ON TOPIC and not personal, warnings have been issued!

jokach
(admin)

[bowmaker]

YOu may also notice bowmaker, that no other busines's are criticised within the YMforum either

i have noticed that other businesses are criticised in the ym forums . PIN (pajama income network ) has been critisied on several occasions . just not by name because its not allowed to even mention the names of other business by name in the ym forums.

[drzod]

Alan, I thought of an even easier way to prove YMMSS is legit. It is as simple as issuing a refund of the initial YMMSS investment. Have Mike Hamilton create a survey that captures the mood of all YMMSS members - including those members who wish to leave YMMSS for whatever reason. Give the members who want to leave a refund ONLY EQUAL TO what they have put into YMMSS and not what they are owed in commissions. You could then remove their access from the system and eliminate their positions - just think you would cycle faster! Why not get rid of all the bad blood out there and leave the members (like yourself) who have gotton paid from YMMSS and believe in its business model. If you really believe in what you are saying on this forum, this would be a win win for everyone.

[Salsa]

I cannot even believe what I am reading here. I mean really...MURDER. Do you all really believe that anyone in YMMSS really cares enough about what you say to actually cause you physical harm?? This isn't the Mafia. I think you are a bit full of yourselves. It bothers me that this even came into your mind. Grow up and quit being so dramatic. I think you're being rather slanderous.
HappyHello Happy,

Surfer and DrZod are correct. I did not mean to be overly alarming, but when someone asks me what risks they might face, I would feel remiss if I simply said, "Nah, don't worry about it." And the fact is that real and serious risks do exist--not only for YMMSS members but for anyone who does not protect his privacy on the Internet. And yes, even death threats have been made against members of various forums when identities became known and passions grew too high.

When I mentioned murder in my earlier post, you may not have understood what 419 fraud (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=419+fraud) is or that I was mentioning it in that context, as an extreme case, not in reference to YMMSS. And in that context, I was actually being gentle by merely calling it murder. The documented 419 fraud murders have generally been preceded by brutal torture. By the way, you have almost certainly been exposed to 419 fraud, whether you know what it's called, or not, and it's worth a bit of research--both to protect yourself and loved ones. Click on the above link to see.

As for murder within the YMMSS community, since the subject has come up, after YMMSS is reduced to a scandal I wouldn't bet even odds against it--not that I think Kim has plans to kill anyone. The most likely homicides would be inter-spousal ones, between couples who are faced with the misery of having lost their entire savings--because of the intense anger and depression that will result.

I would expect suicides to be more prominent, however. Read a little history, and you will see that there were many suicides among Charles Ponzi's victims--so it's not like it would be the first time. Besides, we've already had one YMMSS member join us here at Matrix Watch and admit that he is at risk of exactly that. (How are you doing AvidA. Haven't heard from you in a couple of weeks. Please stick your head in to let us know you are well, or PM me. I'm worried.)

So, working down from those extremes, concern that I might get my car keyed if I were to let my whereabouts be known seems fairly tame. And if I were to make my email address public, the chance of being subscribed to a dozen porn sites is near 100%.

I wish you well,
Salsa

[Salsa]

I personally do NOT think Kim and staff are crooks. Like I said in my other post I do have a good friend who has known Kim for 20+ years and says he is a great guy and has a great family.
That's all very nice, but I hope you have more to go on than that. Please realize that appearing to be a great guy is the number one job of every con artist. Without creating the illusion of being a good and trustworthy person, a con artist simply cannot draw victims into his web.

"Knowing" someone for 20 years means practically nothing. My own father was a small-time con artist. He was involved in many organizations and was very highly regarded in the community. He also broke many of the friends who he acquired. My childhood family was thought to be the model family in our neighborhood. My childhood friends idolized my father--especially those who had poor or no fathers of their own. In later life, those who he was able to draw into one or another of his schemes were crushed by the eventual reality of what he really was and they came to despise him. It always amazed me how word did not spread about him, but I realize now that it is typical for victims to be so hurt and embarrassed by such episodes that most of them quietly disappear.

My father died some years ago. Shortly afterward, an old friend who I'd known since third grade asked after him, and I told him what had happened. He was devastated by the loss--as if it were his own deeply-loved father who had died--and he came to visit me for a few days. In one effort to soothe him, I made the mistake of telling some real-life stories of who and what my father was. I was simply trying to comfort him by saying, in essence, "Look. It was no great loss." In hindsight, that might have been the worst thing I could have done. My friend's illusion of my father and my family had been an ideal that he had aspired to all his life. He left my home shortly after that, and I don't know what's happened to him. He wouldn't return calls or letters. The last card I sent to him was returned, "Addressee Unknown."

Old friends and associates still ask after my father. When they get the news and say, "I'm sorry for your loss. Your father was a great man." I simply return a sincere, "Thank you. He was really something, all right," and I try to change the subject.

Cross, I hope your faith in YMMSS is based on more than a friend who has known Kim for 20 years. The problem is that YMMSS has all the hallmarks of a scam, and only the hallmarks of a scam. Personally, I'm not even looking for proof that it isn't a scam, just some shred of evidence. However, in all of our prying into YMMSS, no one has been able to dig up a single stick of evidence showing how it can possibly be legitimate.

Further, the intricacies of YMMSS show that it cannot merely be some unfortunate accident. Whoever created it had to know exactly what it is.

I wish you well,
Salsa

[Gringo]

At this point for me, it doesn't really matter if the YMMSS mess is through a deliberate con or failure of a poor business plan. Thousands of businesses fail every year resulting in the loss of millions by investors even though the business founders had good intentions and hoped for long term success. Is YMMSS one of these? Maybe, but the problem I see now is even in the face of a clearly failed plan and no realistic hope of recovery or payback to the members of the millions invested, Kim continues to try to attract more people to put money into this bottomless hole.

A publicly or even closely held business would have closed up shop long ago either by direct intervention by the government/SEC or board of directors/investors, but since Kim holds all the cards and is located offshore the only way for him to loose is to close it down. As long as money flows in, he gets his cut.

Even if this all started out with the best of intentions, every day that passes is a further blemish on Kim's reputation and he becomes more blameworthy for the ever increasing losses to the investors.

[Casandra]

BUt, if you trawl through the posts they have put up you will see nothing but lies, poison, conjecture and every vile notion known to man.

They try to moralise with me but forget who they are and what they are - a gossip club that make up 90% of the information within this forum - the other 10% is flawed and tainted.That is just simply not truth.

When facts are quoted from YMMSS conference call records and numbers are taken right from the activity forum, those are not lies. Where have your arguments provided facts to support what you say? I see anger and invective from you, but no facts. I shall enjoy one day watching you having to eat your crow.

[Casandra]

i have noticed that other businesses are criticised in the ym forums . PIN (pajama income network ) has been critisied on several occasions . just not by name because its not allowed to even mention the names of other business by name in the ym forums.That's not the whole of it. All other businesses (any kind of business that might take money away from YMMSS) are discouraged. Any kind of business that contains a cycler is derisively called "copycat". Those are facts.

[ComplexKid]

Ditto paid-to-reads, as they're competition. And surely we've all read that YMMSS is the only bizopp on the Net that isn't a scam, so you mustn't put money anywhere else?

[Cross]

Salsa,
My faith is based on the fact that I have not other option but to sit here and watch the cycle time rise :head:

[bowmaker]

sit and wait , sit and watch . it truley is our only option.
i still cant get a straight answer on the value of epc's. i mean , if i wanted to post happy birthday , or something i could to it on the ym forums , and if i wanted to sell something i could do it at the ym auctions .
i think the epc's have zero value. people are only interested in doubling there money so the product (epc) is worthless , and all the biz op posts on the ad forums prove that people are only intrested in commision from epc purchases. and the fact that they auction the epc's off on the ym auction site shows there is no value in the ym product.

[lionking]

Hi, I just been banned fom YMMSS forum! I can see I am in the
good company!

[Arzel]

Welcome LionKing.

Feel free to share your story and participate with the rest of us. I sense momentum gaining against YMMSS from it's member base, and as more and more former and current members group together it will make it all the easier to put this ponzi out of it's misery.

[bowmaker]

Hi, I just been banned fom YMMSS forum! I can see I am in the
good company!

welcome lionking my brother . why did you get banned?

[lionking]

I was warned before by Esto...

I was banned for sarcasm, for making fun at $3.09 weekly payment for new $320.

And how is not to, when by calculations of our HUGE MATHS MINDS, for the last
2 weeks we would be paid $4 and $6 ( $6 including $300k income stream)

All I said was:

WOW, $4-$6 IS >3.09!!!

I also supported Cross, that we should be paid $25 per $320, not $4-6$!
Back to REALITY, please...