YMMSS Financial Burden: the first 500 members

[surfer]

One of the big selling points of YMMSS is the
lowest entry level cost of $10 that will pay
members(oops, they have to be called affiliates
now ;)) a recurring commission of $320 each
and every cycle beginning with the 6th cycle.

So, how many YMMSS affiliates have actually
been able to live the dream of turning a small
$10 EPC purchase into a recurring $320
commission?

The only members that have cycled 6 or more
times are those who joined in late 2003. There
were approximately 400 members in August 2003
and roughly 1000 members at the end of 2003.

Those first 400-1000 affiliates, less than 4%
of the total YMMSS membership, are the only
ones who can attest to "the power of $10".

Thanks to the ponzi structure, the 96%+
who came after them gave them a nice
hefty profit.

Of the approximately 25,000 YMMSS affiliates:

15,000+(anyone 10/24 and after) have never
cycled.

About 3,000(joined 7/26/04 to 10/23/04) have
cycled once. These members would only be
breaking even if they purchased at the
$320 level or claimed via website to get out
(which would actually have made them a profit).

About 5,000 affiliates(joined approximately
5/7/04 to 7/25/04) have cycled twice. These
would have needed to buy in at $160 or used
claim via website to get paid.

The remaining 3000 affiliates(12%) have cycled
3 or more times with the above mentioned 400
to 1000 pulling in some big cash from the
donations of the later members.

You can bet that 80%-90% at least are operating
at a loss when it comes to YMMSS because they
were encouraged to buy in at lower levels.

Only the first 3000 could have joined with $80 or
less and reached the recurring $320 goal.

[Salsa]

I agree with your reasoning, surfer. You may be a bit more generous than I would be, however.

I think that even many members who purchased $320 EPCs back in 2003 are not in profit. While reading anecdotal evidence from various testimonials, here is a classic scenario:

"Charlie Smith" purchased his first EPC back in Sept 2003. He was very skeptical at the time, but a friend had been badgering him to take the plunge since April, so he finally does--with a $320 EPC. Then, less than three months later, he gets his first $320 in his E-Gold account! WOW! It really worked!

But then Charlie feels foolish for being so impatient about getting his cash. "Darn," he thinks, "if only I had left that $320 in there, next cycle I would have gotten $640!" He doesn't want to make that mistake again, so he immediately sets his remaining EPC to repurchase.

After sleeping on it, his clever mind comes up with a way to do some damage control on the $320 cash he was paid--which is to buy another $320 with it. While he's at it, Charlie buys a couple more $320s. He has the money on hand, and it's such a good deal!

Now Charlie has four $320s that will pay him $1,280 at the end of the next cycle. But he resolves to let those positions repurchase rather than take any cash out. He's started making his plans to get $100,000 a year from YMMSS--like all the other hot-shots there.

He also reasons that, while $100K a year for life would be nice, "All I'll have to do is wait another 90 days without taking any cash, and it will turn into $200K for life. Hmmm. What if I wait yet another 90 days and make it $400K? Hmmm. I've always dreamed of making a million-dollars a year. If I plan to wait just another 90 days, I'll almost be there! All I have to do is be patient until Jan 2006." Sorry, Charlie

Salsa

[surfer]

Oh yeah, there are a bunch of different scenarios.

I have a feeling many of the early members were
probably familiar with doubler/ponzi type businesses,
so they may not have risked as much by leaving it
all in there. They know to get all of their seed
money back and play with "house" money.

Kim's "vision" back then was a bit different than it
is now. On some of his old sites I saw links to
gifting programs and that kind of crap.

Those early $10 purchases would now be draining
millions from the CPA, all paid for by new members.

Just illustrating the point I believe you or Arzel
have made numerous times about how this is
a deficit system.

[ComplexKid]

If I remember correctly, and I may not do, YM was called something slightly different way back, EPCs were $5, and the early cycle times were a matter of hours, then days.

Kim used to promote it a lot on various Yahoo groups if anybody wants to try and dig up the info. Wayback machine won't work because it wasn't called YMMSS. I do remember coming across an ad for it way back though--the site was even uglier than the old YM site, and so confusing I couldn't make heads nor tails of it, but one of the mods later told me that that was what became YM.

[mechanic]

One of the big selling points of YMMSS is the
lowest entry level cost of $10 that will pay
members(oops, they have to be called affiliates
now ;)) a recurring commission of $320 each
and every cycle beginning with the 6th cycle.

So, how many YMMSS affiliates have actually
been able to live the dream of turning a small
$10 EPC purchase into a recurring $320
commission?

The only members that have cycled 6 or more
times are those who joined in late 2003. There
were approximately 400 members in August 2003
and roughly 1000 members at the end of 2003.

Those first 400-1000 affiliates, less than 4%
of the total YMMSS membership, are the only
ones who can attest to "the power of $10".

Thanks to the ponzi structure, the 96%+
who came after them gave them a nice
hefty profit.

Of the approximately 25,000 YMMSS affiliates:

15,000+(anyone 10/24 and after) have never
cycled.

About 3,000(joined 7/26/04 to 10/23/04) have
cycled once. These members would only be
breaking even if they purchased at the
$320 level or claimed via website to get out
(which would actually have made them a profit).

About 5,000 affiliates(joined approximately
5/7/04 to 7/25/04) have cycled twice. These
would have needed to buy in at $160 or used
claim via website to get paid.

The remaining 3000 affiliates(12%) have cycled
3 or more times with the above mentioned 400
to 1000 pulling in some big cash from the
donations of the later members.

You can bet that 80%-90% at least are operating
at a loss when it comes to YMMSS because they
were encouraged to buy in at lower levels.

Only the first 3000 could have joined with $80 or
less and reached the recurring $320 goal.

I was a lucky member,I voicing my opinion and it was the truth and on Wednesday Viper told me that my voice was heard after I made a reply to Esto's post that negetivity was on the way out and they deleted it and I reposted on the same one that I posted and Esto sent me a PM on thursday and we talked and Thursday evening I was refunded all that I had initually invested,since I was only in since March,that was all I wanted.

They even refunded the membership fee,and Kim e-mailed me four times to see is I was satisfied.I also found out this morning that they deleted my avitar and put guest in its place and everyone is wondering why a guest is posting,and I emphatically deny any posting there as guest,I cant even get as if I would want too.

Layton

[swishnev]

I'm wondering just how many people have been pushed out at this point? I thought I was going to be the only one to be completely "expelled". I figured people would lose their rights to post in the forums but not in everything. I wonder how Kim can justify to people that are still members how he is giving people refunds?

[swishnev]

Another thing, my sponsor works at the same place as I do, so when he posts in the forums he has the same IP address as I do. After I was kicked out he tried to enter the forums but was told his account was under investigation.....Isn't this like McCarthyism when they were looking for communists?

[drzod]

Swishnev, the site was finally back up so I could use up those valuable EPC's and post to the gold, silver, and general forums.

Did you get kicked out for posting to these forums, or the non-required ones at ymforums.com?

I am impressed that you actually got a refund, and I hope to join you by getting expelled.

Anyway here's my latest post:

Using the most recent entry in the YMMSS Activity forum, the date was 06/27/05 and the cycle time is 247 days.

06/27/05 minus 247 days = processing commissions from 10/23/04.

It took 20 days to process 10/21/05, and 5 days to process 10/22/04 (thank you Kim for the $300 K).

Is it possible that the new servers will significantly reduce this fluctuation?

By processing each day (instead of 3 times a week), it should at least cut the time in half.

This would make a huge impact on cycle times and really lift members' spirits!

I am not sure if it is expulsion material, but it is worth a try. Any ideas on what I should post next? I still have 192 EPC's to potentially use up to get kicked out and get a refund.

By the way, I kind of miss Alan and his demented views. Does anyone know if he is out bashing this site on the forums?

[surfer]

I was a lucky member,I voicing my opinion and it was the truth and on Wednesday Viper told me that my voice was heard after I made a reply to Esto's post that negetivity was on the way out and they deleted it and I reposted on the same one that I posted and Esto sent me a PM on thursday and we talked and Thursday evening I was refunded all that I had initually invested,since I was only in since March,that was all I wanted.

They even refunded the membership fee,and Kim e-mailed me four times to see is I was satisfied.I also found out this morning that they deleted my avitar and put guest in its place and everyone is wondering why a guest is posting,and I emphatically deny any posting there as guest,I cant even get as if I would want too.

Layton

Glad you got your investment, errrr, EPC purchases
refunded Layton.

When your forum account is deleted, it automatically
changes all your posts to "guest". That did confuse
a few people. :D

[swishnev]

drzod, i was expelled for posting intially in the forums and then when i was booted from there i started to post in the ecp forums. i can't give you any ideas on what to post next as i think it's not right to encourage you, or other members to cause trouble and tried to be expelled, sorry.

[drzod]

Do you feel anyone is still reading the ads besides the moderators? I am not necessarily trying to cause trouble, but work on two issues at the same time:

01) Post something that generates a response to my in box so that I can point members to this site and hopefully stop them from perpetuating YMMSS. In order to do so, I most post something of substance and not just a happy gram.

02) Since we now have confirmation that refunds have been given - get a refund of my initial investment.

Unfortunately, these two issues seem to be at odds with one another. How do I recruit members to this site, while getting a refund? Any ideas?

[surfer]

Another thing, my sponsor works at the same place as I do, so when he posts in the forums he has the same IP address as I do. After I was kicked out he tried to enter the forums but was told his account was under investigation.....Isn't this like McCarthyism when they were looking for communists?

That would be kellerbt, right. :D

As far as how many are gone, I only know
of you and Layton so far.

I don't know how Lionking has managed to
avoid the axe. Perhaps it's his charming
way of antagonizing. :) There are a few
others I expect to be gone shortly.

They must like drzod's "testimonial" too much
to let him go. lol

Instead of stirring up trouble, I'd probably
just keep requesting to be let out and
refunded.

[swishnev]

how much was processed today and what are the ct's up to now? have they even made an announcement on what happened with the servers last week?

[surfer]

$62,523.60 commissions "paid".

247 day cycle time.

Help Desk Announcement about processing (http://www.ymhelp.com/?_a=announcements&_m=details&_i=144&PHPSESSID=e3393fb879d06c4e0f322176d2f5ea5d)

Whatever happened, it wasn't Kim's fault.

It was that darn Murphy, the real CEO of
YMMSS. lol :head:

[swishnev]

"I thank everyone enough for being patient during this time. We keep making progress. But a step forward is always better than a step back.

Sincerely,

Kim "

Isn't the fact that they haven't been able to get the servers to work correctly in many, many months a huge step back? What are the steps usually when businesses like these begin to fail?

[mechanic]

That would be kellerbt, right. :D

As far as how many are gone, I only know
of you and Layton so far.

I don't know how Lionking has managed to
avoid the axe. Perhaps it's his charming
way of antagonizing. :) There are a few
others I expect to be gone shortly.

They must like drzod's "testimonial" too much
to let him go. lol

Instead of stirring up trouble, I'd probably
just keep requesting to be let out and
refunded.

Itworked for me

[mechanic]

Glad you got your investment, errrr, EPC purchases
refunded Layton.

When your forum account is deleted, it automatically
changes all your posts to "guest". That did confuse
a few people. :D

Oh and one other thing,I also benefactored all m EPC jokes to another deserving that PM'ed me first,even got a thank you out of it.

Layton

[Salsa]

If I remember correctly, and I may not do, YM was called something slightly different way back, EPCs were $5, and the early cycle times were a matter of hours, then days.

Kim used to promote it a lot on various Yahoo groups if anybody wants to try and dig up the info. Wayback machine won't work because it wasn't called YMMSS. I do remember coming across an ad for it way back though--the site was even uglier than the old YM site, and so confusing I couldn't make heads nor tails of it, but one of the mods later told me that that was what became YM.

I haven't seen the specific info that you mentioned, but YMMSS apparently had it's name as early as November, 2002. If you want to poke around some more, here are links to a few Kim & Sue Inman sites for you to put in the WayBack Machine (http://web.archive.org/collections/web.html). All are still registered to "Kim" and the first three currently forward to YMMSS.

guaranteed-weight-loss.com
opportunity-knocks.net
yourbizsite.net
mysuccessbiz.net

I'm sure there are many more if you poke around hard enough.

The mysuccessbiz.net 11/2/2001 (http://web.archive.org/web/20011102025913/http://www.mysuccessbiz.net/) site of this era is especially interesting. It's supposedly hosted by Pat and Janna Burnworth, but the site design is the same as some other Inman sites. I checked the domain registration, and it's registered to Burnworth Enterprises. But guess what? The Burnworth Enterprises' address is 208 South 8th Street, Vincennes, Indiana 47591--the same as Kim and Sue's. What a coincidence! Also, when I googled on the names, I got this: The Movement of like minded members to come together for the good ... (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Patrick+Burnworth%22). That's the United We Stand (http://matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2767) commitment page, of course. So, are the Burnworth's their kids (I don't think so) or permanent house guests, or aliases--or their real names?

Skimming through other finds at WayBack, here are some of my favorites:

"It makes us mad the way some advertisers fool people who really are trying to get ahead. They say you don't have to work hard, just set back and the money will start coming in from e-commerce, mail order or some other internet business scam. Well, the truth is, there is no free lunch."
--Kim & Sue Inman, opportunity-knocks.net 5/20/2000 (http://web.archive.org/web/20000502000252/http://www.opportunity-knocks.net/)

"If you can fall off a log, you will create the residual income of your dreams with
Your Money Machine Success System"
--Kim & Sue Inman, yourbizsite.net 11/20/2002 (http://web.archive.org/web/20021120053444/http://www.yourbizsite.net/)

And just because it's so tacky:
opportunity-knocks.net 2/1/2001 (http://web.archive.org/web/20010201194300/http://www.opportunity-knocks.net/)

homebusiness.to/WebSuccess 6/7/2001 (http://web.archive.org/web/20010607080700/homebusiness.to/WebSuccess/) also says, "This site hosted by Kim & Sue Inman." I think, however, that they just had the username "WebSuccess" on that server, with a directory by the same name. This site, in turn, is affiliated with homebusinessgo.com, which Kim also has links to in earlier sites.

There are also some more recent links to jgoonline.com, which appears to be owned by a third party, but who knows?

The thing that all the sites have in common is their "white trash marketing" theme. That's a term that I recently came across while surfing some old forums on the subject, and it seems like such an appropriate tag for Kim & Sue Inman's (or whatever their names are) style.

Salsa
________________________

[surfer]

Interesting digging Salsa.

I've been through much of that in the
past. :eek:

You can also add internet-marketing-review.net
to your list. The domain expired and is now
dead.

Back then you can also see Kim was involved
with gifting programs, also illegal.

Some things never change.

[Arzel]

Great info Salsa!

[YMforever]

Svish, that is the proof that you and I quote your response to an affiliate, were in YM only "doing business" and nothing else... Going to the other non related forum and joining the people bashing your business. Bravo. Well, that's logical since you bashed it yourself. Gee, is that the breeze of fresh air that comes when you're not around? :D Kind of miss this ongoing...... Naw... :p
"Doing business"
Yeah, my a** :p :p

[Shoes]

Salsa - your detective work is unimpressive and lacks any substance.

Shug

[ycchen]

Salsa - your detective work is unimpressive and lacks any substance.

ShugShug, perhaps you could shed some light on Kim's previous business track records? Any substantial and honest info about Kim's past records will be substantially appreciated. :)

[Shoes]

Because somene has the same contact address as Kim, it must be him under a different ID? What a load of rubbish.

Shug

[Arzel]

Because somene has the same contact address as Kim, it must be him under a different ID? What a load of rubbish.

Shug

Shoes, how much evidence do you need? I would admit that once thing alone is not that much, but there is so much evidence that YMMSS is a ponzi, and that Kim obviously knows what he is doing that they add up to a lot.

It is quite clear that as a deeply entrenched pro-YMMSS'er you will dissregard anything that isn't pro-YMMSS

[gypsy]

lol....serves yourself right

[gypsy]

sorry that comment was for DRZOD...who got himself kicked out and didnt get a refund.

i needed a laugh....

thanks for that

[Leonidas]

Last I heard his money was refunded, it was probably the same money you purchased your epc's with lol

L

[drzod]

Gypsy, glad to hear that I got under your skin. I am happy to report that I did get a refund, so sorry that you had to stop laughing.

<Edit>

BTW, I am still out $23 for the Intgold fee to fund the account and the fee to my sponsor. You can continue laughing, and buy two more EPC's for me. With the huge payout under the new system, you can expect to recoup your funds in record time.

Say hello to Alan and tell him that his facts and figures are truly missed at MW.

[drankoolaid]

Just wayyy toooo interesting to MISS!

Michael

[AvidA]

Interestingly enough, gypsy hasn't come around lately. That would be deb19 in the YM forums. I wonder if she feels as stupid as she's made others feel?

Bet she does, and if she doesn't, then it shows ya just what a hateful little fool she is. :yes: