When will it actually "end"???

[danielmeyers]

Seems to me that YMMSS could go on like this for many more months - never closing shop, but simply stringing people along, dangling a new carrot in front of them when the current one starts to wilt and lose its appeal. Many members have already stated that cycle times over one year aren't going to bother them, with "that's still a better return than my bank" being a common (but misguided) attitude.

I really wonder when enough people will finally get frustrated enough to make a difference. I know that one or two people complaining won't be enough. (And I don't mean in their own forums, I mean to authorities and regulatory bodies.)

I'm not saying this because I'm looking for someone to speculate or take up a bet with me, I'm simply not seeing the light at the end of this tunnel yet - the MW site could be up and we could be talking to disillusioned members for a long time.

Daniel

[Dreamer]

Unfortunately, I doubt that they will close. For each sale, or resale kimmy can steal more money. All he needs is for the 25,000 members to stop reading those stupid ads and yank all their positions.

So, will it end? unfortunately probably never. But, it looks like it is dying pretty quickly.

[MatrixWatch]

I think that it would depend on the members. When people say that pyramids and ponzis collapse under the weight of their ever-expanding lists, what they really mean is that the participants are brought to a point where their patience and trust is stretched beyond boudary, and they no longer act in the scheme's interest.

It is the large-scale member revolt that initiates the collapse.

Now, some admins of these schems are somewhat talented in running their own public affairs, and they have the ability to string things along--holding the allegiance of just enough people to keep things going. We have come in contact with a couple of these. Karen at MoveMeUp for instance, or Greg from GotMatrix.

It really comes down to the members. A few of us complained about the way that EzExpo.com was run, and we even linked up to share our frustrations, but it was the massive class-action lawsuit that tipped the scales in our favor (we later won the lawsuit in appellate court). The bottom line is that the members of YMMSS who are dissatisfied need to get together and figure out whether something should and could be done to bolster their efforts, and unite a majority of YMMSS partcipants behind them.

[Arzel]

A new milestone has been reached.

This was posted on the moneymaker forum just recently.

I can't guarantee that YM will survive this, but I don't think you can say Kim is a thief. If YM dies, it will be due to the success of the negative posters.

I had been waiting for an exisiting YMMSS member to start blaming the negative posting of others for the downfall of YMMSS.

Fall of a Matrix/Ponzi.

1. Critical mass is reached. New membership can no longer match what is required to sustain a stable cycle time. (Happened in November of 2004)

2. Excuses begin. With critical mass being reached, leadership of the scam begin making up many excuses to explain why things are no longer working properly. (Began in February of 2005, at least that is when the first of the "the leader was sick" type excuses started to surface.)

3. Membership dissent and exodus. Member start to vocally express their discontent with the system and begin to ask for refunds enmasse. Legal compaints begin. (Started in May 2005)

4. Infighting. Membership fraction as some members begin to blame other members for the collapse of the system. (Started June 2005, This probably started earlier, but the first documented source of the actual statement was just yesterday, June 29th.)

5. Complete collapse. In march I said the YMMSS would be lucky to see 2006, and would probably collapse mid-summer (which gives me until early-mid August). I still think that this is possible, but admit that YMMSS could hold on a little bit longer than that.

[surfer]

As others stated above, it could drag out of
quite a while.

As long as he has some hardcore believes,
Kim Inman has no reason to just shut it
down yet.

He already has people set up to wait at
least 6 more months for the next "outside"
revenue stream that is supposed to be
several million per week.

That has been stated to be coming as
early as the end of this year or the
beginning of next year.

Even with the pathetic "pay" days that
YMMSS is having, Kim is still raking in
tens of thousands of dollars each week.

There has been nothing new on any
other "short term" income streams in
about a month.

By having the previously mentioned
"short term" income streams fall through
as too "risky", members are now set
up to wait an indefinite amount of time
while Mark Boike looks after their "best
interests" to find more "safe" outside
investments.

More and more Kim is placing the
blame on the shoulders of YMMSs
members. He says things like cycle
times will improve when members
start treating YMMSS like a real
business. :rolleyes: :shake:

For 3 years, the members have been
footing at least 99% of the bill.

When they decide to stop donating
their money to the Kim Inman ponzi
and start making him come through
on his end of the deal will be when
he finally ends it.

For now, the vast majority of YMMSS
members continue to lose more money,
time and hope.

A few members get paid.

Kim Inman keeps getting richer.

[swishnev]

so the are fighting amongst themselves in the ymforum saying that its the negative people's fault? i find this to be absolutely ludicrous because 1) all negative posts and people have been dismissed and 2) it takes money to make ym work, the more money coming in, the better they will be. Do you think AT&T or other large companies that they are supposedly trying to get to give YMMSS money are reading the forums? No, just excuses, excuses, excuses. What was the statement that began the in-fighting?

[Arzel]

so the are fighting amongst themselves in the ymforum saying that its the negative people's fault? i find this to be absolutely ludicrous because 1) all negative posts and people have been dismissed and 2) it takes money to make ym work, the more money coming in, the better they will be. Do you think AT&T or other large companies that they are supposedly trying to get to give YMMSS money are reading the forums? No, just excuses, excuses, excuses. What was the statement that began the in-fighting?

I don't have access to the YM member forums, I was just quoting the moneymaker forum. There is no doubt that some members are angry with other members at this point, but the moneymaker forum quote was the first public statement where one YM member specifically states that the failure of YMMSS will be because of the negative actions of other members.

During my time watching these types of scams there are certain things that happen that you look for to give you an idea to the current state of collapse. This is the final step I look for to state that the system has fractured beyond a critical stage.

You can see it everywhere, here especially when Alan was posting. But up till this point it was more "Don't rock the boat!" kind of attitude. The believers are now starting to see that the boat is sinking and they are starting to blame the rockers.

I only make a note of this because of the personal importance to me in determing when the collapse will take place, and how accurate my original prediction was.

[swishnev]

well, i guess this is how people are sometimes. they don't realize they made a mistake and start to blame others. they don't want to blame the owner of the company because if they did that they would really just be blaming themselves for believing what he said. where are these moneymaker forums?

[swishnev]

i found the forums, thanks

[Gringo]

We've got a thread already going here (http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2747) which discusses some of these same ideas.

There have been been plenty of complaints about negative posters on the YMMSS forums. There have even been whole threads created on the subject.Seems to me that YMMSS could go on like this for many more months - never closing shop, but simply stringing people along, dangling a new carrot in front of them when the current one starts to wilt and lose its appeal. Yes, this does seem to be the strategy, as I've stated before. Some will swallow any new little promise from Kim, but many are seeing past it and new and more dramatic cures need to be proposed for them to stay interested.

I've stated that soon after the failure of the new server solution things will wind down to the point that the YMMSS structure as we know it will end. I see only 3 other "cures" that are currently stringing people along:
1. The 11/19/04 cycle date.
2. Retail ad sales.
3. Kims outside investments.
None of the above promise a near term solution--most are an admitted 5+ mo. away.

When the point comes that Kim is putting in more than he is taking out, he will shut it down and restructure it. Until then he has no incentive to do so. Of course he could always reduce his contribution giving some excuse like "it was a short term investment that has matured". That way he could still pull out a little more cash until contributions totally dry up.

In any case, I wouldn't expect YMMSS to get shut down anytime soon, if ever by the government being that the business and assets are offshore.

Kim has shown that he can win peoples confidence and he now has the infrasctrucre in place as well as a core of followers that he could continue with these types of schemes for many months if not years.

[YMforever]

It's amazing what bitter minds and "get rich quick" type of minds wouldn't try to sell. How many epcs did you spend on that? You'd be rich by now, Bill Gates II. lol lol lol
Believe me, had I the opportunity and the money, I would pay you all off. Bad luck for me I guess... for now... ;)

Cheerio