At least Mike Hamilton can almost hit a deadline.

[surfer]

http://www.ymsurveys.com/

He did want to get it to members by the
end of June but July 5 wasn't bad. :)

Affiliates have 21 days to complete this
survey or their accounts will be deactivated.

Of course, if they are deactivated, they will
not cycle or get paid. Then they have to
go through some ridiculous verification process
designed to discourage them so that Kim can
keep their money.

It's a pretty standard consumer survey that is
of course U.S. biased since Mike Hamilton is
from there and that's where the majority of
YMMSS affiliates are reportedly from.

[Mat_Watcher]

Of course, if they are deactivated, they will
not cycle or get paid. Then they have to
go through some ridiculous verification process
designed to discourage them so that Kim can
keep their money.


Just need some clarification.
If:
Deactivate means order cycle but not generate commissions.
It is reentered at the bottom as it is,without making any new order.
Re-activation is more simple to do than explain it.
Once reactivated that order will generate commissions again.
The money due to that order is used to pay following orders commissions due.

How do You explain the quoted lines above?

Many Thanks.

[surfer]

Not exactly sure what you'd like me to
clarify Mat_Watcher.

From what I've read in the past, the
process for reactivation includes sending
in a photocopy of certain forms of ID.

That is absurd since it wasn't needed to
take someone's money to begin with.

It's there just to make it a hassle that
some members won't bother dealing with.

[Mat_Watcher]

Ok ,got one part of them.
The re-activation procedure was designed to discourage people from being deactivated.
If they don't want deal with,just read ads or fill the survey.

What's about the money that is used to pay commissions and You say Kim keeps?

Many Thanks

[surfer]

Well, if he uses money that should have been
paid to an affiliate that got deactivated for not
filling out the survey to pay other affiliates, he
saves the amount of money he owed that affiliate.

That said, I don't see why anyone would have an
issue filling out the survey if they really believed
that YMMSS was an advertising business.

The survey does ask some personal questions, but
it's nothing that invasive IMO.

[Mat_Watcher]

He "save" the money but the system loose the cash back from new purchases when cycle,included 25% that goes to admin.
I agree with You about issue filling the survey.
Unless who have to find a way to complain about ipothetical privacy violation,
paid for read ads or paid for fill the survey,nobody should have ethical problems on filling it.

[Dreamer]

Can non-members view this survey?

If not, can a member send me the survey so I can post it?

[Mat_Watcher]

There is a copyright on the site.
It will show up on severals popup window.
Questions are related to everydays needs,as where,when and for how much You spend for those,more some info about family.
There were some bugs,fixed,and all the questions have a "none" or "other" or "local (generic)" options.

Nothing differents from many others surveys I saw ,jus a little more detailed.

many thanks.

[Dreamer]

What is your gender?
What is your age?
Are you a US Military Veteran?
Please select your ethnic group:
What is the highest level of education you have completed?
Please select the country that you live in:
- All the top spots Belong to US/state. No other country has states listed
What is your current estimated household total annual combined income before taxes? (Please include income such as salaries, bonuses, profits, rentals, interest, dividends, Social Security, pensions, YMMSS, etc.)
- I like the pls include ymmss.
What is your Marital Status?
How many people live in your household (including yourself)?
How many children (under 18 years of age) live in your household?
Do you for your current home: (own, rent, other)
Do you own rental properties?
What type of mortgage do you have?
What is your current employment status?
What best describes your field of work? (If retired, select the field you were employed in.)
What is your current job title?
Do you have experience in Retail / Online Advertising?
Which of the following interest you? (Check all that apply)
- Standard question you'll see anywhere so you can get spammed in ur email if you click reading, dating, travel, or whatever. Something has to interest u
Video Game Systems owned: (Check all that apply)
Pets Owned (Check all that apply)
Do you like to play or watch sports?
What health and exercise equipment do you own? (Check all that apply)
What hunting and camping equipment do you own? (Check all that apply)
In the last 12 months, have you taken lessons or instructions for: (Check all that apply)
- Sports, music, stuff like that
What is your opinion on gambling?
Do you gamble? (Including lottery)
How often do you dine out?
Which restaurants / eateries do you frequent? (Check all that apply)
Do you buy or sell stocks or other investments ONLINE?
Do you conduct ONLINE banking or other transactions with your bank or financial institution?
Do you download music or mp3 files?
Do you book travel online?
Where do you shop for apparel & accessories? (Check all that apply)
Which convenience stores do you use? (Check all that apply)
Which Department Stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which discount Department Stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Fabric & Craft stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Home Furnishings & Accessory stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Shoe stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Small-Format Value Companies do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Television Shopping channels do you watch? (Check all that apply)
Which Warehouse Club Companies do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Home Improvement stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Grocery stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Automotive stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Book stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Video Rental stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Electronic stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Office Supply stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which Pet Supply stores do you shop? (Check all that apply)
Which of the following factors play an important role in your decision to purchase from a specific ONLINE store? (Check all that apply)
Which of the following do you like best about online shopping as compared to traditional shopping?
Which of the following concerns you the most about online shopping? (Check all that apply)
hat were your estimated dollars spent on major purchases in 2003?
What were your estimated dollars spent on major purchases in 2004?
What are your estimated dollars spent on major purchases in 2005?
What are the dollars that you anticipate that you will spend on major purchases in 2006?
What were the estimated dollars spent on Internet Sites in 2004?
What are your estimated dollars spent on Internet Sites in 2005?
Likelihood of increasing your spending if you had a specialized coupon for a product:
A. Definitely
F. Definitely
Likelihood of increased spending with an increase in income:
A. Definitely
F. Definitely
Would you increase your spending if you had a dedicated Portal Advertising System that PAYS YOU to read ads?
How many televisions do you have in your house?
How many hours of TV do you watch per week?
What are your favorite television shows in general? (Check all that apply)
Do you subscribe to a newspaper?
What type of radio station do you listen to most often?
Do you own Satellite Radio?
Do you use coupons?
What types of magazines do you read? (Check all that apply)
Do you have any of the following medical conditions? (Check all that apply)
Do you take prescription medications?
Which Pharmacy/Druggist do you use? (Check all that apply)
Do you use bottled water?
Which of the following types of beverages do you consume at least once per month? (Check all that apply)

Do you take vitamins?
If assured of their efficacy (safety and effectiveness), would you buy YM branded vitamins?
Have you ever been on a weight-loss program?
Is your weight a current concern?
How often do you eat at 'Fast Food' establishments?
What type of health insurance do you carry?
Do you carry eye care insurance for: (Check all that apply)
What are your monthly premiums?
Do you have prescription coverage?
Do you have major medical coverage?
What are your health insurance plans deductible amounts?
Do you receive any services from the following? (Check all that apply)
Do you own any of the following? (Check all that apply)


Ok...you get the point...

[Dreamer]

Doesnt seem like that great of a system if just anybody can take the survey.

If kimmy wants to sue me for copywright infringement i ll be more than happy to povide my name and info for him, but not my SSN.


Copyright is a protection that covers published and unpublished literary, scientific and artistic works, whatever the form of expression

Ahhh...a survey is scientific work

Fair use or fair practice is utilization of a portion of a copyrighted work "as is" for purposes of parody, news reporting, research and education about such copyrighted work without the permission of the author

Wait never mind.

[surfer]

He "save" the money but the system loose the cash back from new purchases when cycle,included 25% that goes to admin.
I agree with You about issue filling the survey.
Unless who have to find a way to complain about ipothetical privacy violation,
paid for read ads or paid for fill the survey,nobody should have ethical problems on filling it.

The system doesn't lose any cash from a
position that doesn't cycle. At worst, it's
a wash. If it's a matured position(s), they
save $320 each.

Only the affiliate loses.

That brings up another potential loophole in
the whole deactivation process.

If a big spender or someone who has been in
for quite a while has a lot of positions due to
cycle on the same day or week, do they just
not get paid for the first position cycling or
do sacrifice every position on each of their
next cycles.

If it's only the first position, the deactivation
process would seem to be less fair for a newer
or poorer affiliate with only one or two positions
than someone who can afford to miss payment/
cycling on just one of many positions.

For example:

Joe jumped in big time and has 50 positions at
the $320 EPC level that will cycle in 3 weeks.

Bob is not so well to do, but managed to scrape
together $320 for 32 EPCs. He came in the same
day as Joe.

Both for one reason or another screw up with their
obligation for reading ads next week and are
deactivated. They both then get reactivated when
they realize they screwed up.

I'm curious as to how that works.

Does Joe lose all commissions of all EPCs set to
cycle in this period or does he only lose the first
one?

If Joe only loses the first one, is that fair to Bob
who would essentially be losing 100% of his
commissions for this cycle but Joe only loses
2% of his for the same offense.

Terms and stipulations that can take away
people's money should be crystal clear. A few
of things are left fuzzy in YMMSS.

@ Dreamer
Obviously, anyone can take the survey. But as
you saw, you have to enter an email address at
the beginning and your YMMSS username at the
end to get credit.

It should have probably been contained in the
back office so people can't screw around with
them. I would expect that to happen in the
future.

But I don't see anything real wrong with it
being publicly accessible. Only YMMSS
affiliates and people like us even know about
it. ;)

[Arzel]

I have a good deal of experience with surveys (since I have a degree in statistics, have graduate work in survey sampling, and deal with surveys in my job.

Long surveys are most universally usless...at least questions after about 5 to 10 minutes. I got bored after just reading the questions, so I would expect most responders to not really care after about the first third or so.

It is amazing how often I run into surverys which simply do not understand (I also have a good background in sociology) the nature of people responding to surveys. The first 15 to 20 questions are probably useful, but after that, you could probably flip a coin.

[Mat_Watcher]

The system doesn't lose any cash from a
position that doesn't cycle. At worst, it's
a wash. If it's a matured position(s), they
save $320 each.

Only the affiliate loses.


Unless a position is setted on Claim via website,when it cycle it make a new purchase.This will increase the Total commissions Payout and lower the funds
of 25% of the amount of this purchase.75% goes back to system.
If new purchase is not made,100% of amount will remain in the system instead of 75%.This means that also admin will loose the 25%

The affiliate do not loses anything,as is well declared that who do not accomplish memberships agreement requirement is not elegible to earn commissions.
Paid to read ads.Do not read?do not earn.
Take care that missing the requirement due tech or private problems will not cause de-activation.


I'm curious as to how that works.


week1 (Mon to Sun) without reading ads.
Affiliate get notice of possible deactivation.
week2 (Mon to Sun) without readind ads.
Affiliate get 2° notice.
week3 (Mon to Sun) without readind ads.
Account deactivated on day 15.

All commissions due till day15 are paid.

Affiliate ask for reactivation on day20
Reactivation on day 21.

All (1 or 100 positions) commission due from day15 to day20 are not paid.

All commission due from day21 are paid.

Abuse of 2 weeks warning is not tollerated.

Deactivation protect all affiliates that make their work ,as who do not work do not earn.
Protect the system from loosing effectiveness of potentially customers as who don't read can't eventually buy.

Hope this help.

Many thanks

[Mat_Watcher]

It is amazing how often I run into surverys which simply do not understand (I also have a good background in sociology) the nature of people responding to surveys. The first 15 to 20 questions are probably useful, but after that, you could probably flip a coin.

Maybe if people is (well) paid for taking the survey they will give it necessary time and dedication.

Many thanks

[Dreamer]

The problem with this survey is its a stupid survey. And, it was annoying.

With the technology available, and the money he is getting paid, he should have designed a smart survey.

Page 1 - Basic questions, age, gender, educational level, income, etc. Not 3 questions per page, but 10 or 15 or however logically fits a page.

Page 2 - A page of smart questions so that the user doesnt have to answer parts of the survey they doesnt interest them.

[surfer]

Unless a position is setted on Claim via website,when it cycle it make a new purchase.This will increase the Total commissions Payout and lower the funds
of 25% of the amount of this purchase.75% goes back to system.
If new purchase is not made,100% of amount will remain in the system instead of 75%.This means that also admin will loose the 25%

The affiliate do not loses anything,as is well declared that who do not accomplish memberships agreement requirement is not elegible to earn commissions.
Paid to read ads.Do not read?do not earn.
Take care that missing the requirement due tech or private problems will not cause de-activation.
Looks like we simply won't agree that YMMSS
loses no money on this.

One last example.

Affiliate has $80 position due to cycle to $160.

You claim that YMMSS will "lose" the $40 admin
fee.

But if you're buying in to the statement that
YMMSS is actually "paying" that member $160
which they are then using to purchase a new
EPC, YMMSS is actually saving a net amount of
$120 by not cycling the member which they can
then use to "pay" someone else instead.


week1 (Mon to Sun) without reading ads.
Affiliate get notice of possible deactivation.
week2 (Mon to Sun) without readind ads.
Affiliate get 2° notice.
week3 (Mon to Sun) without readind ads.
Account deactivated on day 15.

All commissions due till day15 are paid.

Affiliate ask for reactivation on day20
Reactivation on day 21.

All (1 or 100 positions) commission due from day15 to day20 are not paid.

All commission due from day21 are paid.

Abuse of 2 weeks warning is not tollerated.

Deactivation protect all affiliates that make their work ,as who do not work do not earn.
Protect the system from loosing effectiveness of potentially customers as who don't read can't eventually buy.

Hope this help.

Many thanks


Much appreciated.

If that's actually the way it works, it's not
very well thought out.

Looks like members could simply not read
for a few months when they know their
positions won't cycle and then try to get
reactivated when it's closer to the time.

Of course, it doesn't matter because YMMSS
hasn't enforced the rules for over 3 years.
They've simply operated as a ponzi/doubler.

Thanks for taking your time to convey your
thoughts and opinions.

[surfer]

I'll have to go with Mat_Watcher's thinking
that the members who believe they are
going to become wealthy from YMMSS will
put a little more effort into doing the survey
accurately.

But I definitely don't bother with the 3 and 4
page surveys I occasionally get in the mail,
despite the tempting offer of money saving
coupons. ;)

[Mat_Watcher]

Looks like we simply won't agree that YMMSS
loses no money on this.

You claim that YMMSS will "lose" the $40 admin
fee.



Not exactly.

YMMSS system will loose an order.
YMMSS admin will loose its 25% fees.
Affiiliate will loose his earnings.

What I'm meaning is all YMMSS,YMMSS admin and affiliate loose something not cyclcing a position,whatever the cash will be used.



Looks like members could simply not read
for a few months when they know their
positions won't cycle and then try to get
reactivated when it's closer to the time.

Yes,correct.
Forget to mention that this will be tollerated once.
De-activation status for long times along more than 1 cycle will bring on membership termination.

Many Thanks

[Arzel]

Maybe if people is (well) paid for taking the survey they will give it necessary time and dedication.

Many thanks

Sorry, even that doesn't work very well. For one thing you get a terrible representation of a population (ie biased sampling).

A few years ago (5 if I remember correctly) I was part of a program to get free web tv and internet if I would participate in a survey every week to two weeks.

The surveys were done though a survery center out of Chicago (I think it was national opinion research or something like that). At first I was quite happy to participate, and am actually a person that normally agrees to participate in a survey when I am called on the phone. I understand the statistics and importance of survey sampling, so I like to help.....however after a few months of doing surveys over web tv it started to get pretty annoying.

I had two roommates at the time (both of them also statisticians) so we all understood the importance of surveys. It didn't take long before the free internet and web tv just wasn't worth the hassle and my roommates didn't want to do the surveys, so I started my own research. If the survey only took about 5 minutes or so to complete (5 to 10 questions plus a 3 or 4 demographic questions) no one complained (I started asking some of my other stat friends, and non stat friends as well to get a broader sample group). Surveys up to 10 minutes (10 to 20 questions plus 3 or 4 demo questions) started pushing the line, and by then most people were just answering questions to get done with the survey. More than 10 minutes and people just stop taking the survey.

It got to be that no one, including myself, did any surveys. Since you had no idea how long the survey would be untill you started (and some of the surveys were very long) it just wasn't worth the time or effort.

You may be wondering where this is leading. At that time web tv plus internet was a $20 or $30 a month service (I never paid anything, so I can't remember exactly.) I had web tv for almost 3 years while I was a part of this, not doing hardly any surveys for at least the last year and a half, but I did get free internet for a total value of at least $500 dollars over the period, plus they even paid additional money to take certain surveys (usually $5 to $10), and it still wasn't enough incentive. I even started to feel guilty and stopped using the free internet, and dropped myself from the program.

You could say that I made at least $500 from this program (more than most people will ever see from YMMSS.) I actually got everything up front, and still had no motivation to complete surveys, yet you are asking members of YMMSS to complete the survey honestly (or be deactivated) with only the promise of future earnings. I don't buy it.

[bowmaker]

how about this deadline

http://www.ymforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=19011&highlight=

[surfer]

Since they extended the deadline for the
surveys to be completed, I'll give Mike a
little more time with the STA site.

I have a hunch what he intends to put
there is related to the survey numbers.

So far, he's still much more efficient than
Kim.