A new MatrixWatch, that fights back!

[FightingBack]

Visit www.MatrixWatchSucks.Com (http://www.MatrixWatchSucks.Com) today to join the new site that is fighting back against the watch dogs! Were not sitting around and letting them say whatever they want! It's time for us to step in and take action!

Our site has many features! Here is a list below:

1.) You can setup your pop e-mail account on our site to start checking your mail from our very own site!

2.) You can submit all your news, stories, and lies that MatrixWatch has done. Once you do they get posted on the site.

3.) We have the cheapest banner advertisement. Display your banner on top of our site for $50/month!

4.) Choose different themes for the site.

5.) Start fighting back to speak your opinions without being banned or worrying about this kind of stuff! (each user gets two warnings, were fair and honest!)


Come join today and start interacting! We need to fight this. We cannot just let this pass by us!


Thanks,
www.MatrixWatchSUCKS.Com (http://www.MatrixWatchSUCKS.Com)

[FightingBack]

We just want to let everyone know that the whole story is not being told. In fact only your side of the story is being told! We are fighting back at this, and will tell our side of the story! Were not sitting back while you watch dogs tell a few lies. Visit our site and take action and speak both sides of the story. Not just half.


www.MatrixWatchSucks.Com

[hello]

We all know that there are two sides to every story, so WatchDog went a little far by banning a few members, I really do not see the need for a matrixwatchsucks site. Matrixwatch does not suck, some opinions might, but the site is useful and informative. WatchDog may have stepped on a few toes here and there but then again don't we all? I find this all so childish, he said, she said, who really cares, lets get back to the basics and talk about the matrix world, eBay scams and everything else before this whole thing started and lets move forward and not back, we can't change the past and talking about it over and over again is a waste of time and engery.

[hurley9192]

there is a site that offers the other side of the story...www.matrix-sites.net

Do you really have that much free time to start a website about a website? Just go there and post. You really need to get a life if your whole life is surrounded by being mad at matrix watch that you need to start a website regarding it.

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by hurley9192
there is a site that offers the other side of the story...www.matrix-sites.net

Do you really have that much free time to start a website about a website? Just go there and post. You really need to get a life if your whole life is surrounded by being mad at matrix watch that you need to start a website regarding it.


See this is the exact reason that this site was started. You cannot be in favor of the matrix community and not get bashed or banned on this site!!Period!! If you do not agree with Watchdog you get banned!! The only reason the banned members was reinstated was an attempt to avoid any damage that banned members might do to the image of this site. Well it is too many banned members too late for that!!

MatrixWatchSucks will be heard!!

Also the description of this website being childish is kind of hypocritical also don't you think. The website was started in order to inform all the innocent people out there of the injustice being done here on this site!! What is childish about that? Was this site not started to inform people? So it is alright for Watchdog to create a site to inform people but it is childish for someone of different views to do the same. Can you see the trend here?

[FightingBack]

Well I'm not sure about matrix-sites, if their willing to give up some part of their forums to hear both sides of the story.

Anyways it's not just about that, but the things that WatchDog does. Like read our two news pieces so far. It's not just to act childish (because were not, we have a right to say things too.) It's to fight back.

And yes I do have a little extra time to make this site. Actually I didn't make it at all, it's more like a program.

Yes we do believe matrixwatchsucks. Why well because him and his watch doggies go around shutting down the good matrix sites. They don't take their time to shut down the ones that are actually frauding people. Customers will be getting prizes from a good site, and when watch doggies go and tell merchant accounts and determined to shut them down, they are the ones frauding the rest of the customers on that site from really getting their prizes. MatrixWatchSucks because Tim (owner of this site) and many others of you fail to read the site cloesly and reading the terms. So now you go around sueing sites because you cannot read their terms and follow them.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by matrixfriendly
See this is the exact reason that this site was started. You cannot be in favor of the matrix community and not get bashed or banned on this site!!Period!! If you do not agree with Watchdog you get banned!!

This is not at all true. There are several pro-matrix members posting here on the forums. A member is banned for violating the forum rules, and ignoring the warnings that myself or the moderators send to them. This was the case with you matrixfriendly. You had an inappropriate signature attached to your posts and you were warned a couple times by Arzel.



The only reason the banned members was reinstated was an attempt to avoid any damage that banned members might do to the image of this site. Well it is too many banned members too late for that!!

What damage? What image? The banned members were reinstated. Including you... and you were banned for ignoring warnings, yet I still reinstated you.



Also the description of this website being childish is kind of hypocritical also don't you think. The website was started in order to inform all the innocent people out there of the injustice being done here on this site!!

Inform Innocent people? Don't get me wrong, I actually like the idea of MatrixWatchSucks. I think that it is cute that someone followed through with an idea that Alegator78 originally came up with last month. I am impressed with the design of the site, and the "cause" behind it. However, if I may be a bit critical... MatrixWatchSucks was started as a controversial move in favor of the opinions of site owners and those who congregate at the top spots of lists (3% of matrix customers, FTC estimate). The narrow demographic that this new site reaches enables them to get advertisers, and that, I believe, is the main reason that they started the site.

Although they claim to be in the "beta" stages of their layout and features, they took the time to write out a fully detailed advertising page, boasting their "lowest prices" in the market. Furthermore, the site's owner has come here advertising the same offer. The "cause" of MatrixWatchSucks is severely tainted by the fact that they they offer advertising. It will eventually cause people to question the true motives of the site, and it will result in a conflict of interest between the site administration and the advertisers.

[mikv]

I just hope that both sites can argue with some intellect and not just rant and rave all day that the other one sucks. I think it was a very bold move opening that matrixwatchsucks site. Although so far the whole site is dedicated to smack talking and not covering any issues related to the "legality" of the whole matrix structure. That site is the best thing that the matrix community could have done, as long as they use it to educate and inform rather than just to get back at Watchdog. Although I understand that was the whole basis. I look foward to seeing the "heavy hitters" in the matrix community step foward and go to bat for their businesses. They talk about telling "their side" of the story and yet not even the Admin there have posted anything regarding that. So we'll see how it unfolds.

[FightingBack]

The main reason for the site is to FIGHT back at you Watch Dogs! Yes we do have cheap advertising, but the reason why it is so cheap is just to pay for the site! Were not sitting here charing $150 or anything. Just $50 to help cover the site fees! That is it, so do not think you know everything WatchDog, because you don't! And yes were here to say our side of the story.

Why should users have this little section set off to the side for them to post? Your little pro section is dumb. People should be able to speak there mind and say their opinions anywhere. You don't care about anyone else.

We would like to see users from MatrixWatch.Org come over and sign up on our forums to talk & say their opinions. Because were not going to be cheap and ban everyone that speaks againts us!

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by watchdog
This is not at all true. There are several pro-matrix members posting here on the forums. A member is banned for violating the forum rules, and ignoring the warnings that myself or the moderators send to them. This was the case with you matrixfriendly. You had an inappropriate signature attached to your posts and you were warned a couple times by Arzel.

This was merely used as an attention getter for those that was steadily bashing me without being punished. The reason for this you already know (Arzel and Peterdragin) are your moderators. If you are punishing them it should be publically like you warn everyone else, and not in a PM that I know you are going to say happens.


What damage? What image? The banned members were reinstated. Including you... and you were banned for ignoring warnings, yet I still reinstated you.[/QUOTE]

I am sure that you don't think that any of the members that were banned is going to go out and praise you and the work you do here. We gave you the benefit of thinking that this site was going to be free for all to speak, but again this was not the case. Messages of choice were deleted and members banned. I see some of your moderators doing the same things that the banned members were doing without punishment. This site is here to rally support for your lawsuit. There is no other possible reason that it could be here for. Without support you lawsuit will fade out like yesterdays news. And by the way you did not reinstate me!!! You actually deleted my account, so I had to remake it. So much for the 6 month suspension that you publicly announced I had. Do you usually delete someones account when they are suspended?


Inform Innocent people? Don't get me wrong, I actually like the idea of MatrixWatchSucks. I think that it is cute that someone followed through with an idea that Alegator78 originally came up with last month. I am impressed with the design of the site, and the "cause" behind it. However, if I may be a bit critical... MatrixWatchSucks was started as a controversial move in favor of the opinions of site owners and those who congregate at the top spots of lists (3% of matrix customers, FTC estimate). The narrow demographic that this new site reaches enables them to get advertisers, and that, I believe, is the main reason that they started the site. [/QUOTE]

Just because they were not the originator of the idea does not make it any less important. Do you think that you were the first one to not read what you were buying and then sue the people that told you upfront what you were buying? I don't think so. However, if I may be a bit critical... MatrixWatch.org was started as a controversial move in favor of the opinions of matrix site customers that did not read the TOS and those who congregate at the bottom spots of lists (matrixfriendly estimate). See how everything has two sides.

This may seem a little aggressive but I get Peeved when all people are not being treated equal.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by hello
We all know that there are two sides to every story, so WatchDog went a little far by banning a few members, I really do not see the need for a matrixwatchsucks site. Matrixwatch does not suck, some opinions might, but the site is useful and informative. WatchDog may have stepped on a few toes here and there but then again don't we all? I find this all so childish, he said, she said, who really cares, lets get back to the basics and talk about the matrix world, eBay scams and everything else before this whole thing started and lets move forward and not back, we can't change the past and talking about it over and over again is a waste of time and engery.

Let me clarify something. Watch Dog is not telling you all the real reason he banned some of us. But no one is going to believe us anyway, so it matters not. He banned me for responding to a newbie to this site that was wining asking for Watch Dog's help. So I made a comment about how no one takes responsibility for there own actions anymore, and I added in there the words ***** ******, and I was banned. Period. No thread hijacking as Watch Dog claims. I responded to the newbies remarks in the thread I was on.....so there was no thread hijacking....

It is hard to respect someone who intentionally bans members and then later because of the backlash, reinstates them only to state a bogus reasoning for banning us as Thread Hijacking.....



haha....I see he has put in asterisks in where I made a coment up above. Of course I don't think the Lords name is a cuss word, though it depends on how it is used.....

[mjkski]

Just a side note from someone who is not a matrix lover but at least honest. For some reason when I read the new web site name MatrixWatchSucks....all I see in my head is Matrix Sucks. Maybe its just me and my brain that isn't up to par or doesn't work well on Monday- but seriously I don't think I am alone on this. Am I? Those are the two words in that phrase that seem to stand out for some reason. Plus it seems to advertise Matrix Watch-within your own name- Maybe it will work.... I don't really know. If it were me I guess I would of done something different. Then again- maybe I just need a vacation. Good luck and stay real.

[tcb1969a]

Well, I think it basically is for people who know what MatrixWatch is and to give another side of the story. I of course see it as just that. Though that is interesting point of view. Perhaps to a new person it might look like Matrix Sucks....who knows....

[mjkski]

I agree with you TCB. I think there is several people who don't feel like they have a place here to freely express their opinions. And if that's how they feel then go for it and do a their own web site and run it their way- The American Way -if you cant beat them or join them- start your own right??? Makes sense to me.

[hurley9192]

Like I said before, matrix-sites.net and matrixwatch seem to be the two opposing sites. To get mad at matrixwatch and start a site like matrixwatchsucks is just stupid. What are you going to do? Spend all your time talking about this site and how it sucks? That is where you need to get something better to do. Why not just start matrixlover.com or something like that? I think Watchdog has accomplished something if he has taken this site to the level that people are so obsessed with it that they will go and start a new site where all the matrix lovers can go cry about how much they hate Watchdog and how his site is hurting their little scams.

Because in reality, that's all that matrixwatchsucks is providing...a place to go and cry over spilled milk. It's too bad because the posts from TCB, uwantme, et al is what draws me to this site. I like to hear the other side and it's funny that the most active people are pro-matrix people, so we obviously are hearing a lot of the other side.

[tcb1969a]

The only people that are crying is the ones that are Watch Dog supporters. That is the whole reason why this site was created was because of crying over spilt milk....By the way has anyone ever noticed my signature tag on here....hmm....

Also, remember the reason I got banned. It was because of me making a remark about some newbie who joined because they were wining........


Please.....just the facts......

[hurley9192]

that's where I got the spilled milk comment from...

it's just idiotic that people would start a whole site based on this site, just to complain about this site.

What is going to be the forum?

Original thread:
Matrix Watch sucks...

reply:
Yeah, you're right. I hate WatchDog and all his supporters.

reply:
Yeah.

End of forum.

It just goes to show that Watchdog has done something that it has stirred up resentment that someone would use their precious free time to build a website all about how his website sucks. By supporting it, you are just proving that he has accomplished something.

[tcb1969a]

The point of the site is to show the other side of the story....point blank....

Further this site here at MatrixWatch, was created why? Because of people crying over spilt milk.....point blank.

Also, I never said I supported the new site MatrixWatchSucks, just that I understand why it was created.....

[hurley9192]

check out my post over there...I provided some good insight as to what can be accomplished.

That's fine if people want to spend their time on tons of different sites saying the same thing...it's just inefficient for the matrix world to have to visit multiple sites, when the same people are on the multiple sites.

Also, from an outside perspective, my whole initiation to the matrix world started when I was looking for something about paypal and ran into paypalsucks.com, which I then found this about matrixwatch and matrix-sites. I then read the posts and based most of my opinions on what the arguments were. Someone visiting matrixwatchsucks.com will end up wondering what all the fuss is about and come here, where they are going to see people discussing legit vs. non-legit.

I hate to say it, but a newbie is going to see this and have reasonable posts about ponzi schemes and how the matrix sites are pretty much built the same way and the only retorts to the anti-matrix argument has really just been that it's not been proven illegal yet and thus, they are legit. Uwantme has been the only one that's put out a decent solution, but it turned out to be just a normal business.

[tcb1969a]

Matrix sites are legal hence the reason why they have not been deemed illegal....

Until they are deemed illegal (which might not happen) your all's retort that they are illegal is unfounded.....It's only speculation at best.....

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by hurley9192
I hate to say it, but a newbie is going to see this and have reasonable posts about ponzi schemes and how the matrix sites are pretty much built the same way and the only retorts to the anti-matrix argument has really just been that it's not been proven illegal yet and thus, they are legit. Uwantme has been the only one that's put out a decent solution, but it turned out to be just a normal business.

Do you have the slightest idea what the definition of a Ponzi Scheme is? Please reply back with it if you do!!

[dbright]

Ok, matrixfriendly...in the simplest terms from the US securities and Exchange commission:

"Ponzi" Schemes
Ponzi schemes are a type of illegal pyramid scheme named for Charles Ponzi, who duped thousands of New England residents into investing in a postage stamp speculation scheme back in the 1920s. Ponzi thought he could take advantage of differences between U.S. and foreign currencies used to buy and sell international mail coupons. Ponzi told investors that he could provide a 40% return in just 90 days compared with 5% for bank savings accounts. Ponzi was deluged with funds from investors, taking in $1 million during one three-hour period—and this was 1921! Though a few early investors were paid off to make the scheme look legitimate, an investigation found that Ponzi had only purchased about $30 worth of the international mail coupons.

Decades later, the Ponzi scheme continues to work on the "rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul" principle, as money from new investors is used to pay off earlier investors until the whole scheme collapses. For more information, please read our search key topic on pyramid schemes.

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

If you look up "pyramid schemes" you'll find that it says pretty much the same thing and it makes mention that these schemes can HIDE BEHIND THE SALE OF A PRODUCT. Nearly all matrix sites work under this principle.

Let's use Ezexpo as an example....can anyone tell me why this site isn't a pyramid scheme? And by the way TCB, I'm not on this site crying over spilt milk. I have never, nor will i ever "invest" in a matrix site. I recognised them for what they were the first time I saw them.

[tcb1969a]

Then how did you happen upon this site, dbright...

You were just cruising the internet and by chance came upon this site and thought hey let's do some Matrix bashing....

Also, I was referring to the reason why this site came to be. The founder lost money on a matrix site. So he started this site because he was crying over spilt milk. Also many others joined this site as well because they to lost money on Matrix sites, hence they also were crying over spilt milk....However, if it does not pertain to you, dbright, then ignore it.....

[dbright]

TCB, I saw all those bogus auctions on ebay last year and one of them actually mentioned the Ezexpo website which led to the Ezexpo forums and from there to the matrix community in general.

I followed a lot of the threads right up to the creation of this forum and joined. I'm not a "matrix basher" but I find it rather amusing that myself and most people "on the outside looking in" can see what the whole matrix concept is based on. It may have been started with good intentions but the nearly all matrix sites must fail by virtue of the mathematics involved.

Can anyone, including all the matrix supporters really say that the large majority of people who join a matrix site will lose and only a very small percentage will "win"?

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by dbright
Ok, matrixfriendly...in the simplest terms from the US securities and Exchange commission:

Decades later, the Ponzi scheme continues to work on the "rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul" principle, as money from new investors is used to pay off earlier investors until the whole scheme collapses. For more information, please read our search key topic on pyramid schemes.

If you look up "pyramid schemes" you'll find that it says pretty much the same thing and it makes mention that these schemes can HIDE BEHIND THE SALE OF A PRODUCT. Nearly all matrix sites work under this principle.

Let's use Ezexpo as an example....can anyone tell me why this site isn't a pyramid scheme? And by the way TCB, I'm not on this site crying over spilt milk. I have never, nor will i ever "invest" in a matrix site. I recognised them for what they were the first time I saw them.

Ok first of all I know what a Ponzi Scheme is!! I was asking hurley a question! Next did you know that a Ponzi Scheme is so illegal that they could not and did not put Charles Ponzi in jail for it. Wow I wonder why! Secondly you contradict yourself. Now by what you said does a Ponzi operate by paying early investers by later investors or do they hide behind the sale of a product? These are two completely different things that you are talking about here. By the way this statement does not carry much weight either "If you look up "pyramid schemes" you'll find that it says pretty much the same thing ". Now are we interpreting the law by saying that this is pretty much the same thing? Does it say the same thing or not? The law is cut and dried. You are on one side or the other. PERIOD. I know for a fact that there is more definition to a pyramid scheme. You only talk about one section of it. This is because that the rest of the definition clearly rules out matrix sites from being a pyramid scheme. They are not a Ponzi Scheme because early investors are not paid by the latter investors. They are clearly paid through sales from the site. How hard is this to understand? It matters not how close to the line you are when you are talking about the law. It only matters if you are on the legal side or the illegal side. If you have been paying attention you would have noticed that "The Big Lawsuit" does not even go after Ezexpo as a Ponzi Scheme. There more than likely is a reason for this. You think!

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by dbright
TCB, I saw all those bogus auctions on ebay last year and one of them actually mentioned the Ezexpo website which led to the Ezexpo forums and from there to the matrix community in general.

I followed a lot of the threads right up to the creation of this forum and joined. I'm not a "matrix basher" but I find it rather amusing that myself and most people "on the outside looking in" can see what the whole matrix concept is based on. It may have been started with good intentions but the nearly all matrix sites must fail by virtue of the mathematics involved.

Can anyone, including all the matrix supporters really say that the large majority of people who join a matrix site will lose and only a very small percentage will "win"?

Hmm.....well, it is well known I am a Matrix Owner.....But do you realize that I have made more money being a Matrix Customer than a Matrix Owner. So there must be something good about the Matrix sites, in order for me to keep making money by being a customer.....

[tcb1969a]

Yep your right MatrixFriendly, the lawsuit against EZexpo goes after the illegal lottery aspect, and not the Ponzi aspect. Of course even going after them on the illegal lottery is a stretch...

[dbright]

"Ponzi schemes are a type of illegal pyramid scheme "

That first line pretty much says it don't you think matrixfriendly?

So show me a "legal" pyramid scheme

[dbright]

Matrixfriendly, i'm not even interested in what the lawsuit says but give an honest answer, if the FTC actually started investigating this what do you think the outcome would be?

There have been many typs of "marketing plans", investment plans and so forth over the years. Do you have any idea how many of these purported to be legal before enough complaints rolled in to the FTC and they were shut down for being an illegal pyramid scheme? Just go to the FTC website and take a look. Many operated until they collapsed over a period of years. And they didn't invent new laws to shut these things down. the ones they have already fit.

I'll ask again...how does the sale of a "product" suddenly make the pyramid legal?


And pesonally I think that the lawsuit should NOT have been base on an illegal lottery but instead concentrated on the structure of the business (as in pyramid)

[Arzel]

For the record, I am also a non-matirx investor, and found these sites much the way dbright did.

As for Charles Ponzi, you are wrong, he did ultimately serve 7 years in prison.

http://www.uselessinformation.org/ponzi/

[dbright]

"Hmm.....well, it is well known I am a Matrix Owner.....But do you realize that I have made more money being a Matrix Customer than a Matrix Owner. So there must be something good about the Matrix sites, in order for me to keep making money by being a customer....."

TCB, that puts you in the minority doesn't it? And you pretty much sidestepped the question. How many will win and how many will lose? Mathematically speaking 90% or more will never see a thing. Is that not a true statement?

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by dbright
"Hmm.....well, it is well known I am a Matrix Owner.....But do you realize that I have made more money being a Matrix Customer than a Matrix Owner. So there must be something good about the Matrix sites, in order for me to keep making money by being a customer....."

TCB, that puts you in the minority doesn't it? And you pretty much sidestepped the question. How many will win and how many will lose? Mathematically speaking 90% or more will never see a thing. Is that not a true statement?

How can you consider me the minority if I cycle often.....?

And yes I do know of the mathmatical reasoning you speak of...

[dbright]

TCB, i could really care less how often you cycle. Just answer the question please.

[hurley9192]

matrixfriendly, you know darn well that I've posted the facts about ponzi schemes on this site plenty of times.

But here goes...early investors are paid off by later investors...

matrix=people who "invest" get paid in order of investment. Thus, the first one's to get paid are the first ones. How much of a ponzi scheme does it have to be.

Also, to go along with the illegal thing...it's legal, but sick, to practice anal sex in Texas...does that make it right?

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by Arzel
For the record, I am also a non-matirx investor, and found these sites much the way dbright did.

As for Charles Ponzi, you are wrong, he did ultimately serve 7 years in prison.

http://www.uselessinformation.org/ponzi/

Yes you are right but for the wrong reasons. He served time for mail fraud, hence do not take money orders and you have no reason to worry about this angle.

[tcb1969a]

Ok.....I'll answer the question.....

If the site is operating efficiently and has a good way of promoting it and other types of reinvesting in it, such as reinvesting money collected from advertisers into the lists to help cyclers, then a lot of people will cycle. Though there will be losers out there. But even I know that and am willing to still invest in the sites. Why is that you wonder. Because it is my money to lose if I chose. And I don't need Watch Dog to look after my money if I invest unwisely. Also if I lose money in a site, I will chalk it up as a bad investment and move on and not cry over spilt milk....

I hope this answers your question......dbright....

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by matrixfriendly
Yes you are right but for the wrong reasons. He served time for mail fraud, hence do not take money orders and you have no reason to worry about this angle.

Yep your right......go get 'em MatrixFriendly.....

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by hurley9192
matrixfriendly, you know darn well that I've posted the facts about ponzi schemes on this site plenty of times.

But here goes...early investors are paid off by later investors...

matrix=people who "invest" get paid in order of investment. Thus, the first one's to get paid are the first ones. How much of a ponzi scheme does it have to be.

Also, to go along with the illegal thing...it's legal, but sick, to practice anal sex in Texas...does that make it right?

A true matrix site is not an investment. You flat out purchase a product. So therefore "the early investors are not paid by the latter". How much of a Ponzi does it have to be you ask? Well it is or it is not, is that clear enough. Ponzi and Matrices are two variations of a very similar animal, but that does not make them the same. Any variance whatsoever defines the difference and a new process is born. Example: Say a Panther and a Mountain Lion, both are large wildcats, but are they the same animal, NO! Now I admit this is a wild example but it gets the point across. Ok, now that we are talking about Anal sex, in my opinion I think that it is also sick. We can agree to this one, but does this make it wrong? I think that this is the United States of America and as long as it is consentual and done in the privacy of their home they should be allowed to act on this. This should only be wrong if it violates the constitutional rights of another human being.

[peterdragin]

This is a clip from the MSNBC article.

Steven A. Richards, a lawyer who represents multi-level marketing companies for Grimes & Reese in Idaho Falls, Idaho, said there often aren’t clear legal tests for Ponzi schemes. But if the product sold has no value or very little value, and consumers wouldn’t buy it without the attached free gift, the scheme probably runs afoul of federal and state laws.
“Are people who are paying $100 really getting something of value in return for that $100, or is it some means to disguise the scheme, that’s the question,” Richards said.
Without a viable product that can generate revenues and profits on its own, any Ponzi-type structure is doomed to collapse, and that’s why they are illegal, Kohm said.

E books have little or no value !

[dbright]

By answering the question TCB you've pretty much stated why I do not support matrix sites. No matter what site owners do, there are always going to be losers...and that is based solely on the business model. I consider that unethical at best and illegal at worst.

[Arzel]

What difference does it make what Charles Ponzi served time for? Mail fraud may have been the strongest case they had, therefore would be the case they would prosecute first and to the fullest.

Point is, he did serve time, directly related to his scheme. Are you trying to say what he did was not legal?

[hurley9192]

From Matrixfriendly..."We can agree to this one, but does this make it wrong? I think that this is the United States of America and as long as it is consentual and done in the privacy of their home they should be allowed to act on this. This should only be wrong if it violates the constitutional rights of another human being."

if it's not their rights, then it's violating something...:D

Ok, enough of the hijacking there...I use the term investment in quotes to show that I'm not sold on that it's an investment, but it's pretty much the same thing whether you receive a product or not. Either way, you are still paying out the first people in through later people buying your product.

Maybe, you could cycle the people in order and then reward others on a random basis through the profits instead of auto cycling the people in order. That way, the people who get in later on will have a chance at being rewarded. However, then you are pretty much a lottery.

[dbright]

Better watch it PeterDragon, you'll have everyone jumping on you about how much the e-book is worth to them. No matter that in the case of Ezexpo and most matrix sites that sell e-books, the e-books themselves are in the public domain for free. In the case of ezexpo, i found all of them for free in less than 5 minutes on a google search.

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by Arzel
What difference does it make what Charles Ponzi served time for? Mail fraud may have been the strongest case they had, therefore would be the case they would prosecute first and to the fullest.

Point is, he did serve time, directly related to his scheme. Are you trying to say what he did was not legal?

Well I thought that we was debating on facts!

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by hurley9192
if it's not their rights, then it's violating something...:D

Ok, enough of the hijacking there...

Ok first of all you did say it was legal so does that make it right!! Did you not. And for the hijacking, if you do not want something commented on do not state it. If this was hijacking then you are the one that started it. I commented on it within a complete answer to your statement. So who is the hijacker!!

[tcb1969a]

Well, on the ebook issue who are we to say what is of value.....

Also has anyone noticed that nothing recently posted has had anything to do with the topic.....

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by peterdragin
This is a clip from the MSNBC article.

Steven A. Richards, a lawyer who represents multi-level marketing companies for Grimes & Reese in Idaho Falls, Idaho, said there often aren’t clear legal tests for Ponzi schemes. But if the product sold has no value or very little value, and consumers wouldn’t buy it without the attached free gift, the scheme probably runs afoul of federal and state laws.
“Are people who are paying $100 really getting something of value in return for that $100, or is it some means to disguise the scheme, that’s the question,” Richards said.
Without a viable product that can generate revenues and profits on its own, any Ponzi-type structure is doomed to collapse, and that’s why they are illegal, Kohm said.

E books have little or no value !

I cannot seem to trust a attorney that uses words like "there often aren't clear", "the scheme probably runs afoul". Sounds to me like he is not to sure himself.

[dbright]

If I can get the e-book for free or on ebay for $1.00 TCB then it is not worth $150. So what was the topic of this thread?

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by tcb1969a
Well, on the ebook issue who are we to say what is of value.....

Also has anyone noticed that nothing recently posted has had anything to do with the topic.....

Yes I did, but I was to busy arguing with Hurley, Arzel, and Peterdragin to get back on track. I wonder if they will get banned along with us for participating in a hijacking?LOL!!

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by dbright
If I can get the e-book for free or on ebay for $1.00 TCB then it is not worth $150. So what was the topic of this thread?

The topic was about

A new MatrixWatch, that fights back!

Hence, MatrixWatchSucks.com..............

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by matrixfriendly
Yes I did, but I was to busy arguing with Hurley, Arzel, and Peterdragin to get back on track. I wonder if they will get banned along with us for participating in a hijacking?LOL!!

Um....nope only they get warned, we get banned.....remember different rules apply here. And it's a fact....cause it has happened.....

So enjoy it while it lasts matrixfriendly.....without warning you won't be able to post or view.....hmm

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by dbright
Better watch it PeterDragon, you'll have everyone jumping on you about how much the e-book is worth to them. No matter that in the case of Ezexpo and most matrix sites that sell e-books, the e-books themselves are in the public domain for free. In the case of ezexpo, i found all of them for free in less than 5 minutes on a google search.

Oh yeah and if you just go out and download most of them for free, that would still be Piracy. I know that there are free ones, but for the most part you have to have resell rights from the owner. We are still off the subject!!

[MaxPower]

Guess who took it off topic tcb an matrixfriendly? The last post on topic was one about hurley posting on the new site. Page 2

[tcb1969a]

Um....it got off track with hurley........I was responding to what Hurley said.....hence where it got off track....get the facts straight, and get this back on track.........

[matrixfriendly]

Originally posted by hurley9192
check out my post over there...I provided some good insight as to what can be accomplished.

That's fine if people want to spend their time on tons of different sites saying the same thing...it's just inefficient for the matrix world to have to visit multiple sites, when the same people are on the multiple sites.

Also, from an outside perspective, my whole initiation to the matrix world started when I was looking for something about paypal and ran into paypalsucks.com, which I then found this about matrixwatch and matrix-sites. I then read the posts and based most of my opinions on what the arguments were. Someone visiting matrixwatchsucks.com will end up wondering what all the fuss is about and come here, where they are going to see people discussing legit vs. non-legit.

I hate to say it, but a newbie is going to see this and have reasonable posts about ponzi schemes and how the matrix sites are pretty much built the same way and the only retorts to the anti-matrix argument has really just been that it's not been proven illegal yet and thus, they are legit. Uwantme has been the only one that's put out a decent solution, but it turned out to be just a normal business.

Ok I went back also and this is the comment that got the whole thing off track!! Page 2!!
Not ME or TCB, we only come back to this response posted by hurley. That was the point of this whole site wasn't it?

[dbright]

Matrixfriendly, those e-books off of Ezexpo aren't copyrighted and in any case once you download them you can do whatever you want with them including putting them up for free (you have full resale rights remember?..so that includes giving them away). Ok this topic has been seriously derailed from the original train of thought.

[tcb1969a]

Ok.....so.....what does anyone thing of the new MatrixWatchSucks.com site???

[hurley9192]

Originally posted by matrixfriendly
Ok first of all you did say it was legal so does that make it right!! Did you not. And for the hijacking, if you do not want something commented on do not state it. If this was hijacking then you are the one that started it. I commented on it within a complete answer to your statement. So who is the hijacker!!

Actually, I was referring to my comment as hijacking and that I needed to get back on topic and stop hijacking this thread into a different topic...I wasn't referring to anything you said at all.

Chill baby...we don't have to get all worked up here, have to have fun sometimes.

[tcb1969a]

Hmm.....here we go again.....

What does anyone think of MatrixWatchSucks.com???

[hurley9192]

Back to page 2...it is going to cause inefficiency in your support of the matrix world, because it is going to take twice as long to get one point across because you will have to get the opinion on both sites. Therefore, your core target is going to not be hit as much as you like.

While it may be fun to rip on matrixwatch, it is counter productive and will get more people to come here and see what the hype is all about.

[tcb1969a]

Perhaps it will, but at least they will also see the other side of the story on MatrixWatchSucks.com

[hurley9192]

but don't they already see it on matrix-sites.net? Start a forum there so that all pro-matrix propaganda is in the same place.

[tcb1969a]

Yes they see it there, but staying true to their sites nature, they wanted people on here to know about it as well......

[matrixfriendly]

It really just depends on the promotion of the site, I think. If the new matrixwatchsucks.com will really promote their new site and gain a large member base then actually this new site could become more popular than matrix-news. If it appears that both sites are staying about even, and the member base is split or it stays being the same members on both sites then I agree it might defeat the purpose. Although if this one will pull ahead and promote then it could be benificial.

[tcb1969a]

Yes, they will more than likely promote it elsewhere, utilizing the advertising revenue that they get in from those who advertise on their site.....

[matrixfriendly]

The first thing that I see wrong with the site is that they are taking way too long to get the activation link to the newly registered members. They say it takes 24 hours. This is unacceptable. There is no reason why this cannot be accomplished almost instantly. I have been waiting all day.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by matrixfriendly
The first thing that I see wrong with the site is that they are taking way too long to get the activation link to the newly registered members. They say it takes 24 hours. This is unacceptable. There is no reason why this cannot be accomplished almost instantly. I have been waiting all day.

Me and you both.....I have been waiting since sometime yesterday.....still no activation link.....

[hurley9192]

Interesting...I got mine right away...

[matrixfriendly]

Still waiting as of now!!

[tcb1969a]

And I am still waiting.......