what a crock of horse manure!!

[avenging angel]

OK, you YMMSS members.....let's get serious now.....HOW DARE YOU post this CRAP!! Come on, why don't you reveal at least your user name..... so maybe then Kim Inman can take action against YOU!

I am one of the lucky affiliates, who went to the very 1st YMMSS Gathering in Gulfport Mississippi/.....I sat with Mr Inman & his friends, one of which was a longtime childhood buddy....and believe me....nothing but good things were said about Kim ...
And that crack about Belize??? Kim's tropical hideout??? THAT deserves a great big....
HA!!!

Great hideout.....everybody knows where you are!!!! LOL!!!

But yes, the crack about Kim exposing himself....how true....that man wears his heart on his sleeve & really cares about people.
And why all this garbage?? YMMSS is still paying people.....My sponsor just got paid $700.00 in 3% commissions on Friday.....I got $400.00 last month...
and I've made thousands since April 2004.....
Sure, the 3% is being discontinued....and I have 21 people sponsored....DO I GIVE A RAT'S A-S?? NOPE!! Cuz I know I stand to earn alot more!! And another thing....I didn't go overboard.....by risking my life savings...I'm smarter than that....I know there are NO guarantees!!!! And Kim Inman told us that time after time on the conference calls....do not go beyond your means.....

So, come on..... you dirty, stinking, brainless YMMSS members who have taken part in this slander!!!......Reveal your user name.!!!....I DARE YOU!!
I'd expect slander from the author/ owner of this board...
But NOT FROM YOU!! You're slitting your own throats....

[Salsa]

OK, you YMMSS members.....let's get serious now.....HOW DARE YOU post this CRAP!! Come on, why don't you reveal at least your user name..... so maybe then Kim Inman can take action against YOU!

I am one of the lucky affiliates, who went to the very 1st YMMSS Gathering in Gulfport Mississippi/.....I sat with Mr Inman & his friends, one of which was a longtime childhood buddy....and believe me....nothing but good things were said about Kim ...
And that crack about Belize??? Kim's tropical hideout??? THAT deserves a great big....
HA!!!

Great hideout.....everybody knows where you are!!!! LOL!!!

But yes, the crack about Kim exposing himself....how true....that man wears his heart on his sleeve & really cares about people.
And why all this garbage?? YMMSS is still paying people.....My sponsor just got paid $700.00 in 3% commissions on Friday.....I got $400.00 last month...
Sure, the 3% is being discontinued....and I have 21 people sponsored....DO I GIVE A RAT'S A-S?? NOPE!! Cuz I know I stand to earn alot more!!

So, come on..... you dirty, stinking, brainless YMMSS members....Reveal your user name.....I DARE YOU!!
I'd expect slander from the author/ owner of this board...
But NOT FROM YOU!! You're slitting your own throats....
Cool.

Another excellent example of a YMMSS ambassador.

Thanks for showing the world what you are made of.

Salsa
_____________

[avenging angel]

You're very welcome!

[Otherguy]

Hello avenging angel.

As a triumph of hope over experience, I'd like to present a question to you that I've put several times to pro-YMMSS people. Each time the question has been ignored, but it's a simple one and I cannot believe that a large number of YMMSS people haven't asked this question themselves and come up with an answer to satify themselves.

My question for you concerns your faith in Kims ability to generate the many millions in outside revenue needed to sustain YMMSS. What gives you the faith that he will/can do this? Has he past experience in doing this, or do you believe he will because he is honourable and he intends to?

Another way to phrase the question might be "What advantages does Kim have over other entrepeneurs who are also trying to make many millions with roughly the same starting capital?"

[Arzel]

Another way to phrase the question might be "What advantages does Kim have over other entrepeneurs who are also trying to make many millions with roughly the same starting capital?"

Great question. I would love to hear the answer to that.

@avenging angel,

I realize you are angry, but please try to refrain from calling people brainless.

[avenging angel]

Hello avenging angel.


Another way to phrase the question might be "What advantages does Kim have over other entrepeneurs who are also trying to make many millions with roughly the same starting capital?"

Hello to you....
My answer is simple......INTEGRITY.... PURE & SIMPLE.... a character trait that is hard to find in these days, especially in the MLM/ home based business arena. FYI: Kim has all of his positions in YMMSS set to "Pay It Forward" until the new & (I might add exciting )plan goes into effect. Which, in case you don't know what that means, is, all of his earnings in YMMSS goes directly in the commissions payable account..... and over 400 thousand dollars was paid out on one day last week. Crook? Scam artist?? Yeah right...so's yo momma!!

[Arzel]

Hello to you....
My answer is simple......INTEGRITY.... PURE & SIMPLE.... a character trait that is hard to find in these days, especially in the MLM/ home based business arena. FYI: Kim has all of his positions in YMMSS set to "Pay It Forward" until the new & (I might add exciting )plan goes into effect. Which, in case you don't know what that means, is, all of his earnings in YMMSS goes directly in the commissions payable account..... and over 400 thousand dollars was paid out on one day last week. Crook? Scam artist?? Yeah right...so's yo momma!!

Why does Kim even have positions? I have always wondered why he would even need any. He keeps 11% off the top anyway, so why would he ever need any?

I am not sure how integrity would give him better odds over other entrepeneurs in the investment world.


and over 400 thousand dollars was paid out on one day last week. Crook? Scam artist?? Yeah right...so's yo momma!!

And still the cycle times went up day for day, as it was not even close to what was needed.

[avenging angel]

And still the cycle times went up day for day, as it was not even close to what was needed.

That statement shows exactly how much you know......the cycle time rose due to other factors beyond Kim's control.....We had a DDOS attack...& the site was down several days....= no business..... The new website took longer than expected...I think the site was down for almost a week....= no business....and several other factors fell into play.....I think another one was a HUGE amount of purchases were made on November 18....whatever....that's all moot now.... the bottom line is.....Kim could have closed the doors & ran with the money, like so many do & have done.....No....he got with his legal staff...& key people & came up with an awesome plan.
Why don't you just wait & watch what happens with the new plan?
I'll tell you something interesting....This past Monday, I had an insurance man over to get some quotes on health insurance....whew! forget that...high premiums with even higher deductibles....any way....after he pitched his insurance I pitched YMMSS...I told him all about everything....the rising cycle time..., the new plan etc. He joined....said he would not have been impressed with "a doubler," he called it....but when he checked out the new plan, he was VERY impressed. So am I as is the majority of the membership.

So, we'll see, won't we?

and PS Integrity is everything..... It will make or break a business.
And FYI....every founder in ANY MLM or i=InterNet business take the top positions of the company....give me a break!! How is it that you didn't know that? You're not as smart as you think

[bowmaker]

so is avenging angel your ymmss username?

[Arzel]

That statement shows exactly how much you know......the cycle time rose due to other factors beyond Kim's control.....We had a DDOS attack...& the site was down several days....= no business..... The new website took longer than expected...I think the site was down for almost a week....= no business....and several other factors fell into play.....I think another one was a HUGE amount of purchases were made on November 18....whatever....that's all moot now.... the bottom line is.....Kim could have closed the doors & ran with the money, like so many do & have done.....No....he got with his legal staff...& key people & came up with an awesome plan.
Why don't you just wait & watch what happens with the new plan?
I'll tell you something interesting....This past Monday, I had an insurance man over to get some quotes on health insurance....whew! forget that...high premiums with even higher deductibles....any way....after he pitched his insurance I pitched YMMSS...I told him all about everything....the rising cycle time..., the new plan etc. He joined....said he would not have been impressed with "a doubler," he called it....but when he checked out the new plan, he was VERY impressed. So am I as is the majority of the membership.

So, we'll see, won't we?

and PS Integrity is everything..... It will make or break a business.
And FYI....every founder in ANY MLM or i=InterNet business take the top positions of the company....give me a break!! How is it that you didn't know that? You're not as smart as you think

I know all of the excuses that have been given as reasons for the rise in cycle times. If you wish to believe that load to make you feel better about the situation, well that is up to you.

While integrity is important, there are many other factors which a good buisness make. You could be of the highest integrity, but if you are selling a worthless product your business will still fail.

every founder in ANY MLM or i=InterNet business take the top positions of the company....give me a break!! How is it that you didn't know that? You're not as smart as you think

I guess YMMSS IS just like every other internet scam out there. My question wasn't what every other company does, and yes I do know that the founders of these business sit at the top of the pryamid/ponzi and collect from everyone. My question was that since Kim is the owner/founder, he takes 11% off the top for administrative purposes. As the CEO, his salary should be a part of that 11%

My more general question was why would he need to have positions. If he truely cared about helping people he could just give up his positions completely, it is not like he needs them since he already has them all set to pay it forward. To me it seems like a conflict of interest for him to have a bunch of positions.

While I may not be as smart as I think I am, I am much smarter than you think I am. :)

BTW, the new plan doesn't change the fact that money coming in is far less than needed to maintain a stable share payment, but you will see that soon enough.

[bowmaker]

OK, you YMMSS members.....let's get serious now.....HOW DARE YOU post this CRAP!! Come on, why don't you reveal at least your user name..... so maybe then Kim Inman can take action against YOU!



so tell us your ymmss username . there is no avenging angel in the member list.

[surfer]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :head: :head: :head:

Welcome to MatrixWatch avenging angel. ;)

Sorry, but website downtime from 8 months
ago doesn't explain away cycle times going
up 6 days the past week and every week on
average for several months.

Cycle times keep rising because Kim Inman's ponzi
can't bring in enough revenue to sustain itself and
pay people on time.

Even if Kim had integrity, that is no guarantee of
success. Are you saying that you don't know
anyone in your life with high morals and loaded
with integrity that's failing? lol That's funny.

Kim's brand of integrity(lying, breaking promises,
making guarantees that he can't keep, etc.) has
already screwed up the lives of many people that
fell for his line of B.S.

BTW, it was over $600K "paid", but that's hype as
well since it isn't actually what is really "paid". Of
course, for the cycle times to stay the same, it
would have needed to be around $2 million paid, so
on its best day, YMMSS is falling 70% short.

Kim's "awesome" new plan has the exact same set
of problems, the biggest one being that the money
in the RFA needs to increase every single week forever
if share value is to be maintained.

Don't worry, we are watching and waiting. We nailed
it right the first time. :)

Kim might temporarily breathe a little life into the
ponzi with his latest round of hype and lies. And it
won't hurt that he can essentially steal money from
members by deactivating them because they gave
up reading ads since they haven't been paid for over
9 months when they were promised 60-90 days.

Yeah, that's integrity. :crazy:

[surfer]

[QUOTE=avenging angel]OK, you YMMSS members.....let's get serious now.....HOW DARE YOU post this CRAP!! Come on, why don't you reveal at least your user name..... so maybe then Kim Inman can take action against YOU!

QUOTE]

so tell us your ymmss username . there is no avenging angel in the member list.

I'm just going to call them all Alan. lol

[Dreamer]

So, why is it that the alans that come here cannot say anything constructive without throwing around insults?

Its kinda amazing...the mods here will keep such posts up here, but try to ask a simple question on ymmss and it will be deleted.

[Arzel]

It is well known that the mods over at YM will delete just about everything, even stuff that is for all apperances pretty benign. Here is a series of posts made and deleted....I think it is quite funny. :)

A person named Bid posted this question.

Me again!
I was reading the testimonial section of the forum and would like to e-mail a member who put her testimony there, as they live close to me here in B.C. However, I don't have a password and couldn't 'get into the system' to do it. Are guests able to email members on that forum, or do I just post a reply there?
Regards,
Bid.

pretty simple question, and should be easy to answer because this person that bid is referring to has their name, phone number, and email address publically posted on an emoneynews testimonial website. You would think that YM people would know this.

First reply
Hi Bid,

I believe you need to be a registered member of the forum before you can post to
the testimonials board.

As ever, I'm sure someone will soon correct or confirm this as appropriate.

If you are a YMMSS affiliate, you can go ahead and register as a member of the forum
(from the 'register' link at the top of the page) and have unrestricted access to all areas.

It's a great source of information, guidance & discussion, and well worth participating.

Hope this helps?


Never a straight answer, always "go register!"

Then Viper responds

Due to SPAM problems, we protect email addresses here.

I believe you can perform a reply in that forum. If not, let me know and please provide her username (here) and I can contact her to see if she will allow you to have her email addy.

FYI, we are in 81 countries!

SPAM problems? She already has her email posted on the web, she is not going to get anymore SPAM than she is already getting.

Bid responds again

Thankyou, Dom and Viper. I was unable to post a reply. The user name is bvbernice and the name is (am I allowed to put it in?)

[Edited for Security - Viper]

I am not yet an affiliate, but plan to become one as soon as I can set up the account necessary.
Thanks,
Bid.

Right there with the editing, and Viper is quick as it was edited in less than 5 minutes. The name the person put in is Bernice Young, and like I said, she is plastered all over the web already with YMMSS, so I don't see what the big deal is.

Bid and Viper make a couple additional post

Am signing off now but will check for followup tomorrow, or ASAP.
Thanks,
Bid

Bid,

If you would please, send an email to us:
ymmbb.mods@gmail.com

And, we will give yours to Bernice and she can contact you.

Thanks !
_________________
Viper

Just like passing notes in school. :)

I very rarely post in the YM Forums, I think I have made maybe half a dozen posts since I found out about YMMSS, most, if not all have been deleted. Just for fun I posted the following.



You can contact her through her emoney new site.

http://www.emoneynews.com/member/?ID=bvbernice&page=example.html


Pretty simple I think, but it didn't last long before it was "edited for security" I think it lasted about 5 minutes. and was replaced with this.

You can contact her through her emoney new site.

URL deleted per TOU - Newbody1

I had to laugh because this was their own url deleted, and made little sense so I responded.

Why delete an emoney url, isn't that part of the YMMSS group? Plus it was a testimonial.

Confused???

Newbody1 responded, a little strangely if you ask me.

Hi Guest

Hopefully this will clarify for you, I realize you only wanted to help our other guest.

Per the TOU - no URLS are allowed. It's a simple as that.

Insofar as it being a testimonial, there is a place for that, the Testimonials Forum. Bybernice has already placed one there, as this is why the first guest was asking how to contact her.

Finally, Viper has provided a way for the guest to contact Bybernice:

Quote:
Bid,

If you would please, send an email to us:
ymmbb.mods@gmail.com

And, we will give yours to Bernice and she can contact you.

Thanks !


So no, I'm not confused, just following the rules as they are set out for all to see.

Quote:
Terms of Use http://ymforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=13418

Affiliate-based URLs are not allowed anywhere on the system.
_________________
People helping people!

For a system which is supposed to help people, they certainly make it difficult to contact other people in YMMSS. I can kind of understand the not allowing affiliates, but since the 3% is going away it shouldn't really matter anymore. Bernice will never benefit from her name or email being posted on the site anymore.

Newbody1 seemed a little upset that I said confused, but I was the one confused, not calling her confused. :)

So I responded with.


I wasn't saying you were confused, I was saying I was confused.

Besides, it is not like Bernice's email or name is secret, anyone can find it with a simple search.

Newbody1 responded with a "Oh, I see. :)" I didn't have a chance to save that comment, because now the entire thread has been parsed deleting everything I posted and instead includes the following post after vipers.

Thanks, Viper, I have done that.
Regards,
Bid

I am not sure if they were deleted because they track IP addresses and made the connection to an earlier post, or if what I posted was simply too close to questioning stupid YM Forums rules. Whether they tracked my IP or not doesn't really matter, but since they are so delete happy anyway, I doubt they have any posts with my IP information from me still in their forum. :)

[avenging angel]

I know all of the excuses that have been given as reasons for the rise in cycle times. If you wish to believe that load to make you feel better about the situation, well that is up to you. **** Yes, and I DO believe it!!! And what situation are you referring to?? There is NO situation... just one of THE most ingenius internet business the webb will ever see!!
While integrity is important, there are many other factors which a good buisness make. You could be of the highest integrity, but if you are selling a worthless product your business will still fail. **** And since when is advertising a worthless product??? You should see who's coming on board to advertise with us!!


I guess YMMSS IS just like every other internet scam out there. My question wasn't what every other company does, and yes I do know that the founders of these business sit at the top of the pryamid/ponzi and collect from everyone. My question was that since Kim is the owner/founder, he takes 11% off the top for administrative purposes. As the CEO, his salary should be a part of that 11%

My more general question was why would he need to have positions. If he truely cared about helping people he could just give up his positions completely, it is not like he needs them since he already has them all set to pay it forward. To me it seems like a conflict of interest for him to have a bunch of positions. *** Let me get this straight.... 1.) you don't think Kim Inman should have ANY positions in HIS company.... 2.) You even begrudge him the 11%....What about the expenses & overhead? Sir, you are looking dumber to me by the sentence!

While I may not be as smart as I think I am, I am much smarter than you think I am. :) *** :shake: I don't think so!!!

BTW, the new plan doesn't change the fact that money coming in is far less than needed to maintain a stable share payment, but you will see that soon enough. If anyone is going to see anything....it'll be YOU..... seeing the history of my INTGold acct!!! lol

[avenging angel]

so tell us your ymmss username . there is no avenging angel in the member list.


And you are one of the slanders?? Bowmaker....how unique...Tell you what....I'll tell you my user name on a 3 way call to Kim Inman when you tell him YOUR user name OK?? My dime!!

[Arzel]

**** Yes, and I DO believe it!!! And what situation are you referring to?? There is NO situation... just one of THE most ingenius internet business the webb will ever see!!
The only ingenious aspect about Kim’s little Ponzi is that he was able to get so many people to give him their money and be happy about it….and even that is not ingenious because he is simply copying what Charles Ponzi did. Did you know that Charles Ponzi guaranteed 90 day return on investment as well? Didn’t think so….

**** And since when is advertising a worthless product??? You should see who's coming on board to advertise with us!!
Advertising is not worthless, but since the going price for an EPC is about $0.10 each, I would say that an EPC without the possibility of doubling your money IS worthless. Heck, people are even giving them away on the moneymaker forums. I am at the edge of my seat to see who is going to advertise with such a worthless medium.

*** Let me get this straight.... 1.) you don't think Kim Inman should have ANY positions in HIS company.... 2.) You even begrudge him the 11%....What about the expenses & overhead? Sir, you are looking dumber to me by the sentence!

Coming from you I will take that as a compliment. If you had read what I said, you would see that I state since Kim is already taking a nice percentage of the advertising why does he need to have positions as well? It is HIS company, by virtue he owns all of it anyway, there is no business reason to actively participate in the position aspect as well. Besides what could he possibly need to advertise that he could not just advertise for free on his own site? He alone shows that the primary purpose of the advertisement is for the possibility of doubling your money, and that the actual advertisement value of the EPC is worthless, and only to give the appearance of an actual business.

If anyone is going to see anything....it'll be YOU..... seeing the history of my INTGold acct!!! lol

Glad to see you are so happy, when so many of your fellow members will never even make back their original investment.

[surfer]

http://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000012.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000001.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000002.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000004.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000005.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000006.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000007.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000008.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000009.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000010.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000011.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000013.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000014.gifhttp://www.smileys.ws/sm/sleeping/00000015.gif

It seems only Trinket and Mat_Watcher are capable
of being pro-YMMSS and debating with their minds
and not their emotions. :rolleyes:

So avenging angel, tell us how Kim Inman is going to
increase revenue every single week for generations
to come?

After all, that's what has to happen for your "share"
values to be worth more than pennies.

Ummm, bowmaker is his username on the forums, unless
someone is pretending to be him here. And he hasn't
said much of anything derogatory on these boards that
I can remember. :head:

And the proper term would be libel (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=libel). Of course, there's
nothing false here. Just various facts and opinions on
YMMSS.

[Dreamer]

So, who's coming aboard ymmss, and how do you know this? And if they are coming aboard, how come they are not there yet?

[Mat_Watcher]

I was lucky to meet a boy in the early '90 that showed me how he was making around $27,000 a day,13 years ago, just working with a couple of millions of $$ he was lucky to win.
Making a simple search of what kind of offers for long or medium terms from banks or financial experts are available I saw that billions of $$ are moved daily.
If Kim Inman had some of these insider info ,and when You have millions to spend they find You before You ask for ,he no longer needs our tens of $$.
I'm not in the position to say he is using the money he receveid in these investments for himself and YMMSS,but if he did,some of them can generate millions just after 9/12 months.
You can believe or not ,but the fact that Kim Inman have positions inside the matrix show only that he believe in what is building and he did not make it to be the best scam.
This is just my modest opinion.

Many thanks

[avenging angel]

[QUOTE=surfer]:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :head: :head: :head:

Welcome to MatrixWatch avenging angel. ;) ***** Thanks

Sorry, but website downtime from 8 months
ago doesn't explain away cycle times going
up 6 days the past week and every week on
average for several months.
**** Well it sure didn't help !!

Cycle times keep rising because Kim Inman's ponzi
can't bring in enough revenue to sustain itself and
pay people on time.
*** Do I detect jealousy here??? Listen, oh enlightened one, Even Kim stated that until more money coming in exceeds that going out the CT will continue to rise. So, he's changing the whole system.... For the better.....

Even if Kim had integrity, that is no guarantee of
success. Are you saying that you don't know
anyone in your life with high morals and loaded
with integrity that's failing? lol That's funny. **** Funny?? funny HOW?? You mean like clown funny??
what'dya mean by funny?? That amuses you??? That makes you laugh?
Whatdya mean by FUNNY?????
For the past 13 years EVERY internet program I got involved with took the money & ran.... They were run by scum!

Kim's brand of integrity(lying, breaking promises,
making guarantees that he can't keep, etc.) has
already screwed up the lives of many people that
fell for his line of B.S.

**** He NEVER gave out any BS!! He NEVER encouraged anyone to go beyond their means......Quite the contrary he advised even warned against it! Those members ..... with their intense GREED FACTOR....bragging how much they purchased.... TOUGH titty guys!!!
I don't feel one bit sorry for them!! GREED will get you nowhere!

BTW, it was over $600K "paid", but that's hype as
well since it isn't actually what is really "paid". Of
course, for the cycle times to stay the same, it
would have needed to be around $2 million paid, so
on its best day, YMMSS is falling 70% short. Yeah, but not for long....there's a project Kim has going that will bring MEGA BUCKS into the CPA along with all the other outside income sources....my tidy little sum of $320.00's should bring me a nice piece of change with the new plan.
Kim's "awesome" new plan has the exact same set
of problems, the biggest one being that the money
in the RFA needs to increase every single week forever
if share value is to be maintained.**** NO COMMENT here ....you don't have a clue!!! You sound exactly like that small handfull of greedy members who are crying in their beer right now! Tunnel vision.....can't see forest... mentally handicapped?? Whatever!
Don't worry, we are watching and waiting. We nailed
it right the first time. :) *** :shake: no you didn't!! You said YMMSS would go under.... FAR FROM IT BUDDY! YOU WISH!!!

Kim might temporarily breathe a little life into the
ponzi with his latest round of hype and lies. And it
won't hurt that he can essentially steal money from
members by deactivating them because they gave
up reading ads since they haven't been paid for over
9 months when they were promised 60-90 days.**** de-activation is
nothing....a friend of mine was de-activated...notified the help desk....and was re-activated in less than 15 min.

[Dreamer]

As for the question of advertising being worthless, there are 3 points that make advertising valuable.

1. The advertiser has something to sell. Can a ymmss member quickly figure out what the percentage of adds on the forums actually have a product or service to sell? Than, would it be possible to weigh the adds for price (so, a $25,000 add saying happy birthday will have a much more negative impact than a $10epc selling a comic book, or whatever)

The truth of the matter is, people in ymmss are not there to advertise. Three are many free advertising type forums out there that they will have a much better success rate than at ymmss. Or, if they want to pay, they can go to eBay. No problem.

So, ymmss fails the first point of advertising...actually having something to sell.

2. Advertising succeeds when the desired outcome is realized. Most of the time it might just simply be making more money as a result of advertising than the costs associated with the advertising. It could also be foot traffic, or whatever.

Well, since very few ads are even responded to, ymmss fails big time in regards to producing a favorable outcome. Why spend $10 to advertise something that wont sell? That is if you take away the ponzi aspect of ymmss, but since I'm only refering to advertising, we can ignore everything else.

3. The advertising is seen by potentially people who might be interested in buying the product. Well, the problem is, that people involved in ymmss are there because they are trying to make a quick buck without working, believing some grand lie that they are apart of something, or they are down on their luck, mortgaging their house to try to make money there to make ends meet. This isnt the croud people typically want to advertise to, since the only money they have is tied up in a failing system.

ymmss fails on all 3 counts for advertising. unless you can provide some facts i might have overlooked, its safe to assume that advertising on ymmss is worthless.

And this isnt even considering that epc are being sold on pennies on the dollar.

And on a side note, there is nothing exciting or ground breaking about ymmss. It is using 10 year old technology, so a smart business person would have come up with it 10 years ago if it was a real business. The only reason I can see that members are so excited about ymmss because it is failing now more than ever and the membership isnt increasing as rapidly, and without trying to convince people its a real business, thy realize they will never be in the green again, unless they have been around since the beginning.

[Mat_Watcher]

It is well known that the mods over at YM will delete just about everything, even stuff that is for all apperances pretty benign. Here is a series of posts made and deleted....I think it is quite funny. :)

A person named Bid posted this question.



pretty simple question, and should be easy to answer because this person that bid is referring to has their name, phone number, and email address publically posted on an emoneynews testimonial website. You would think that YM people would know this.

First reply


Never a straight answer, always "go register!"

Then Viper responds



SPAM problems? She already has her email posted on the web, she is not going to get anymore SPAM than she is already getting.

Bid responds again



Right there with the editing, and Viper is quick as it was edited in less than 5 minutes. The name the person put in is Bernice Young, and like I said, she is plastered all over the web already with YMMSS, so I don't see what the big deal is.

Bid and Viper make a couple additional post





Just like passing notes in school. :)

I very rarely post in the YM Forums, I think I have made maybe half a dozen posts since I found out about YMMSS, most, if not all have been deleted. Just for fun I posted the following.



Pretty simple I think, but it didn't last long before it was "edited for security" I think it lasted about 5 minutes. and was replaced with this.



I had to laugh because this was their own url deleted, and made little sense so I responded.



Newbody1 responded, a little strangely if you ask me.



For a system which is supposed to help people, they certainly make it difficult to contact other people in YMMSS. I can kind of understand the not allowing affiliates, but since the 3% is going away it shouldn't really matter anymore. Bernice will never benefit from her name or email being posted on the site anymore.

Newbody1 seemed a little upset that I said confused, but I was the one confused, not calling her confused. :)

So I responded with.



Newbody1 responded with a "Oh, I see. :)" I didn't have a chance to save that comment, because now the entire thread has been parsed deleting everything I posted and instead includes the following post after vipers.



I am not sure if they were deleted because they track IP addresses and made the connection to an earlier post, or if what I posted was simply too close to questioning stupid YM Forums rules. Whether they tracked my IP or not doesn't really matter, but since they are so delete happy anyway, I doubt they have any posts with my IP information from me still in their forum. :)

If You read the TOU You can find that no personal details or referrals url can be posted there.
Tryng to help people do not allow to broke the rules.

Many thanks

[avenging angel]

[QUOTE=Mat_Watcher]
You can believe or not ,but the fact that Kim Inman has positions inside the matrix shows only that he believes in what he is building and he did not make it to be the best scam.
This is just my modest opinion.

And what an opinion that was!! Thanks a million! You got it!!
He built YMMSS to LAST! And help thousands upon thousands of people!
You watch, YMMSS will definately become the biggest advertising icon on the NET!
Thanks again!

[Mat_Watcher]

It seems only Trinket and Mat_Watcher are capable
of being pro-YMMSS and debating with their minds
and not their emotions. :rolleyes:


Thanks Surfer,very appreciated.

Many thanks

[avenging angel]

If a constructive post is one that LIBELS an honest man.. A man of integrity...whose main purpose is to help people... then, go ahead... call me unconstructive... and I am OUTTA HERE...until early 2006 that is.....

[Arzel]

If You read the TOU You can find that no personal details or referrals url can be posted there.
Tryng to help people do not allow to broke the rules.

Many thanks

Yes, you are correct about their TOU, and I didn't realize that when I first posted it. I was more pointing out how quickly posts, which were really quite benign, are deleted or edited. And then to have the whole series of posts deleted after they had been cleaned up and be apologizing makes me scratch my head. I just found it quite ironic.

[Arzel]

If a constructive post is one that LIBELS an honest man.. A man of integrity...whose main purpose is to help people... then, go ahead... call me unconstructive... and I am OUTTA HERE...until early 2006 that is.....

Care to point out any libelous statements? So far everything I have posted has been my OPINION, and facts that are easily obtainable on the net.

I actually predicted that YMMSS would fail in August. Now, depending on how you look at it you could say that YMMSS has failed, and the new payment structure is a result of that failure. I am hesitant to say how much life the new plan will put back into YMMSS, but when it begins we should be able to accurately predict the continuing slide in value of each 32 EPC share.

It would be very wise of you to at least admit that we have been accurate about the rise in cycle times up to this point.

I know many YMMSS members are hinging their fate on the $19 million or $16 million a week coming into the system next June, but based on previous track record of YMMSS I don't see that as a very wise bet. The odds are definately against you.

[Mat_Watcher]

Yes, you are correct about their TOU, and I didn't realize that when I first posted it. I was more pointing out how quickly posts, which were really quite benign, are deleted or edited. And then to have the whole series of posts deleted after they had been cleaned up and be apologizing makes me scratch my head. I just found it quite ironic.

For what I know that part of the Forums is dedicated to place questions for who need help.
When a question is posted and correctly (following rules) answered it is removed unless it is usefull for others.
Many entire posts like this are moved to archive or removed,or at least some unusefull or incorrectly posted reply .
It sounds like maintenence.
And Yes,they are quick to make their work :applause:
I will say them You appreciate it lol

Many thanks

[Arzel]

I was lucky to meet a boy in the early '90 that showed me how he was making around $27,000 a day,13 years ago, just working with a couple of millions of $$ he was lucky to win.
Making a simple search of what kind of offers for long or medium terms from banks or financial experts are available I saw that billions of $$ are moved daily.
If Kim Inman had some of these insider info ,and when You have millions to spend they find You before You ask for ,he no longer needs our tens of $$.
I'm not in the position to say he is using the money he receveid in these investments for himself and YMMSS,but if he did,some of them can generate millions just after 9/12 months.
You can believe or not ,but the fact that Kim Inman have positions inside the matrix show only that he believe in what is building and he did not make it to be the best scam.
This is just my modest opinion.

Many thanks

What you state is possible, and there are people that do make a lot of money simple moving money around. I have an uncle that was a very successful week trader (he wasn't quite bold enough to do the day trading), and one week he lost just about everything. So it is not without substantial risk.

The primary problem I have with Kim's plan of $16 million or $19 million a week is the amount of money he is talking about.

It is fair to say that Kim does not have more than $25 million start up capital to do the outside investment based off stated commissions paid. Under the potential investments Kim is reporting $16 million a week would be $832 million a year, or a 3,328% return on investment of $25 million in one year. Even the best investors in the world will tell you how difficult it is to double your investment in a year. And he has already stated that these investments are such that he will not lose the inital investment.

It appears to me that he is setting people up for a future in which these investements fail, but on the bright side YMMSS did not lose anything in the investments.

There are just too many variables which do not add up.

[surfer]

As always, thanks for your quality point
making Mat_Watcher.

I have read up much of what I could find
on medium and long term notes. Of course,
even if Kim said that's what he was doing,
it's considered one of the big red flags for
internet and investment fraud. And no
investment is guaranteed, but Kim and his
affiliates use these projected incomes as
a recruiting tool.

And since Kim's payroll will increase every single
week(if share value is to be maintained), he can
never afford to have a bad investment. Most of
us here don't believe that there will be $19M each
week next July, but even if it is real, what happens
if it falls through? People are being recruited using
this investment income like it's a sure thing. It's not.

The second issue with this is that unless
YMMSS is a charity just giving its money away,
it makes zero business sense for Kim to use
outside investments to meet payroll. If ad
revenue alone is not enough to pay the affiliates
what they were promised, the business is a
failure.

Kim's supposed admiration for the GE model (http://www.ge.com/en/company/businesses/index.htm)
is skewed. Do you really think that GE uses
income from NBC Universal to meet the payroll
for GE Healthcare...........hardly. As I've said
about a million times, each business unit has
to be profitable on its own. If it can't, it gets
shut down or sold.

Kim owning positions in the matrix doesn't prove
his belief in the system. It was just another way
to bilk more money out of the system before it
started going downhill. All his money comes from
YMMSS affiliates anyway, so it isn't really at risk
like that of everyone else.

Once again, it has been a pleasure to disagree
with you. :)


I was lucky to meet a boy in the early '90 that showed me how he was making around $27,000 a day,13 years ago, just working with a couple of millions of $$ he was lucky to win.
Making a simple search of what kind of offers for long or medium terms from banks or financial experts are available I saw that billions of $$ are moved daily.
If Kim Inman had some of these insider info ,and when You have millions to spend they find You before You ask for ,he no longer needs our tens of $$.
I'm not in the position to say he is using the money he receveid in these investments for himself and YMMSS,but if he did,some of them can generate millions just after 9/12 months.
You can believe or not ,but the fact that Kim Inman have positions inside the matrix show only that he believe in what is building and he did not make it to be the best scam.
This is just my modest opinion.

Many thanks

[surfer]

Thanks Surfer,very appreciated.

Many thanks

You're welcome Mat_Watcher.

Because we have a negative view of YMMSS
and the outrageous and misleading claims
that we feel it has made, I do understand
why some members feel the need to storm
in here on the attack.

We are putting down a business that many
people are counting on to be their financial
salvation.

Unfortunately, that makes it difficult for many
to debate rationally. Your ability to do so
without too much emotion actually works in
the favor of YMMSS.

Some are sincere in their feelings, believing
in what they are doing. Others are simply
attempting to protect their investment in the
ponzi by taking things continuously off topic
with personal attacks and insults while never
addressing the issues we bring up.

I certainly will take no joy in being right about
YMMSS, but I will have a feeling of relief when
it's all over and no more victims can be created.

Being wrong would be even better. :D But given
the available facts and figures, that doesn't seem
likely.

[Mat_Watcher]

As for the question of advertising being worthless, there are 3 points that make advertising valuable.

1. The advertiser has something to sell. Can a ymmss member quickly figure out what the percentage of adds on the forums actually have a product or service to sell? Than, would it be possible to weigh the adds for price (so, a $25,000 add saying happy birthday will have a much more negative impact than a $10epc selling a comic book, or whatever)

The truth of the matter is, people in ymmss are not there to advertise. Three are many free advertising type forums out there that they will have a much better success rate than at ymmss. Or, if they want to pay, they can go to eBay. No problem.

So, ymmss fails the first point of advertising...actually having something to sell.

2. Advertising succeeds when the desired outcome is realized. Most of the time it might just simply be making more money as a result of advertising than the costs associated with the advertising. It could also be foot traffic, or whatever.

Well, since very few ads are even responded to, ymmss fails big time in regards to producing a favorable outcome. Why spend $10 to advertise something that wont sell? That is if you take away the ponzi aspect of ymmss, but since I'm only refering to advertising, we can ignore everything else.


I do not think so.
YMMSS members may fail to use the system.
But still there are lot of people that click on links advertised and sometimes sales are made.
For my 5 years experience the rate of results I got its not so differents from others sites You said.
The point about many went into YMMSS without having the full knowledge of advertising tips as writing a good ads or individuate a good product to sell is one of the big problem of this ,and everyone like this,business.


3. The advertising is seen by potentially people who might be interested in buying the product. Well, the problem is, that people involved in ymmss are there because they are trying to make a quick buck without working, believing some grand lie that they are apart of something, or they are down on their luck, mortgaging their house to try to make money there to make ends meet. This isnt the croud people typically want to advertise to, since the only money they have is tied up in a failing system.


The YMMSS memberships reflect the world situation.
There are all levels of wealth ,from the very richs (also before YMMSS) as the very poor (also before YMMSS too...).
Nobody who have a good income will goes to a site to read an ads,unless he' s paid for.and he's not go to increase it for pennies.
So the results for an advertiser will be the same of all others way he can use,as it reflect the average world wealth condiction.

What it should make a difference is that YMMSS affiliates are paid much more,time period, than others similar pay to read sites.

YMMSS is not the perfect place to advertise,but surely is the most close to what advertisers will need,time period.
A strong number of people paid more well than any other site that are potentially customers in a medium ,long term strategy.


ymmss fails on all 3 counts for advertising. unless you can provide some facts i might have overlooked, its safe to assume that advertising on ymmss is worthless.

And this isnt even considering that epc are being sold on pennies on the dollar.

And on a side note, there is nothing exciting or ground breaking about ymmss. It is using 10 year old technology, so a smart business person would have come up with it 10 years ago if it was a real business. The only reason I can see that members are so excited about ymmss because it is failing now more than ever and the membership isnt increasing as rapidly, and without trying to convince people its a real business, thy realize they will never be in the green again, unless they have been around since the beginning.

As everything in the life some may have been changed from 10 years ago.
What was done 10 years ago have placed the fundation of Internet Advertising world.
What is being done now will be the roof,in a next future the walls from bottom to top will be made and the business will be stronger than ever.
Whatever all of us we can say ,whatever MW or YMMSS will be live or not,this is the future.

What I hope is that MW no longer need to exists because YMMSS will be the only one legitimate way to build an income not only from advertising business revenue but implemented with all the services needed daily from people.
And please do not take it as a negative comments on all Your efforts.
Probably if I knowed this site earlier I surely not loosed so much money in the past.
But surely I had joined YMMSS also if I went here before knowing them.

Many thanks

[Mat_Watcher]

As always, thanks for your quality point
making Mat_Watcher.

I have read up much of what I could find
on medium and long term notes. Of course,
even if Kim said that's what he was doing,
it's considered one of the big red flags for
internet and investment fraud. And no
investment is guaranteed, but Kim and his
affiliates use these projected incomes as
a recruiting tool.

And since Kim's payroll will increase every single
week(if share value is to be maintained), he can
never afford to have a bad investment. Most of
us here don't believe that there will be $19M each
week next July, but even if it is real, what happens
if it falls through? People are being recruited using
this investment income like it's a sure thing. It's not.

All You said is right if we see at this process as static.
One of the insider secrect is diversify to find a stable one for a good period.
If the source of $300,000 will be as it should be,more operations can be made with that one.And this is only the first.
If the new plan protetction will take the effect as it is designed to do,also the tens of millions we talk about around July 06 will be spreaded along a period that will cover also any fails it may have,because others more stable will be in the start line to generate a progressive growth to cover the missed ones.



The second issue with this is that unless
YMMSS is a charity just giving its money away,
it makes zero business sense for Kim to use
outside investments to meet payroll. If ad
revenue alone is not enough to pay the affiliates
what they were promised, the business is a
failure.

Kim's supposed admiration for the GE model (http://www.ge.com/en/company/businesses/index.htm)
is skewed. Do you really think that GE uses
income from NBC Universal to meet the payroll
for GE Healthcare...........hardly. As I've said
about a million times, each business unit has
to be profitable on its own. If it can't, it gets
shut down or sold.

That's the part I really not understand.
Again if we take it as a static scenario You're right.
But the dynamic progress of building YMMSS is not related to be only an advertising business.
This is the beginning and the best tool to diversify the incomes this group can generate.
As a small shop of one of the best names in one of the best street of the biggest towns that do not cover the costs to stay there but it NEED to be there for prestige and the sales generated from all others shops of that name around the same town or country allow its exepenses to be covered.

How many company with books in red joined venture with others ,rebuilding each time his products,image and credibility to get out of problems?
Thousands.

How many company have others company owned by same people that generate income one for the other?
Thousands

What YMMSS should be ,begin with advertising business,but include much more than it.




Kim owning positions in the matrix doesn't prove
his belief in the system. It was just another way
to bilk more money out of the system before it
started going downhill. All his money comes from
YMMSS affiliates anyway, so it isn't really at risk
like that of everyone else.

Once again, it has been a pleasure to disagree
with you. :)

I think he already should have much more than how much need to a scammer to run away.
What is going to push him to do what he's doing ,keeping himself on the first line and keep showing his face around the world?
If I was in Kim shoes and I was a scammer I was already runned away or at least hided myself from everything related to YMMSS.

No problem to disagree again :)

Many thanks

[Dreamer]

Well, here is the flaw with the retail side paying people to read. The point of advertising is to make money. So, the only way an advertiser will stick with ymmss is if they get back at least 100% of the advertising cost. I think closer to 300% would probably be more beneficial to cover the cost of the product, shipping, and still turn a profit, but using 100% as the figure would mean that not only would ymmss have to give up 100% of their incomes to the advertisers, but money out of their own pocket.

Besides everybody always saying it, what makes ymmss the best thing that happened to advertising? What is so special about ymmss that will make it succeed? What makes it different from similiar programs that have failed?

[Future4u]

Yep, as far as I'm concerned the very two most important ingrediants of a successful business are integrity and prudent management . Arzel , FYI a business with integrity wouldn't have a worthless product . Nor would one with prudent management .

I was concerned that YMMSS could in no way continue indefinately to pay out to those who had mature EPCs . There simply isn't enough money in the entire World to perform that feat . I cycle slowdown pretty well brought that fact to the forfront . That said ,the recent restructuring represents prudent management decisions at thier utmost . The member base was developed on a doubler format which now will be eliminated and " real " business is evolving utilizing one of the most lucritive products existing , retail advertising . Every business needs it but not all forms of advertising are effective . YMMSS will be able to vitually guarantee the retail client their ads will indeed be read . How unique !! I've been a businessman for 45 years , spent several hundreds of thousands for various forms of advertisement and found it more of a crap shoot than the tables at Las Vegas . Ya gotta have it though and because for most there is no adequate guage of effectiveness you simply try to use prudent management judgement. I think YMMSS has really positioned themselves to begin hitting some home runs . If I wasn't retiring in three weeks I was become one of their first retail advertisers . I'll definately refer them to the factories I have reprsented as a distributor . All prudent businesses with integrity . ROTFLMAO!!!

James Hanlon
Redding, Ca

[Dreamer]

Here is another reason I find it hard to believe anything kim says. His whole model was based off of people building this wonderful income and being able to retire on just reading ads, earning 6 figures a year for life. But, at the 3 year mark, he realized that its impossible, and he changes the system around pretending like its a more fair system.

3 years. Ok, most businesses dont last 3 years. I'll give him that. But when he is fantasizing about a business that will be such a long term life saver for the worlds population to retire off of for somebody who just reads advertising...something is wrong.

When I asked my boss if he ever thought his comic book shop would last 15 years, he declined to answer. I think anybody who goes into business hopes their business lasts them until retirement age and than some, but I also think the smarter ones out there realize they mgiht be out of business in a couple years.

But, no. Kim has a long term business, that if you are talking about retirement income, you gotta figure should last about 40 years. For those who are 25 years old now starting to plan on retiring, to those who are 50 or older hoping to live off of this income.

And yet, at 3 years, it becomes obvious that he cannot do that.

[bowmaker]

And you are one of the slanders?? Bowmaker....how unique...Tell you what....I'll tell you my user name on a 3 way call to Kim Inman when you tell him YOUR user name OK?? My dime!!

bowmaker is my ymmss username , im not trying to hide anything . now whats yours?

[Dreamer]

Originally Posted by avenging angel
And you are one of the slanders?? Bowmaker....how unique...Tell you what....I'll tell you my user name on a 3 way call to Kim Inman when you tell him YOUR user name OK?? My dime!!

Actually, I personally encourage ymmss members here to be anonymous and not share their ymmss names here so that no negative action will happen upon them for posting their feelings or beliefs. ymmss is so heavly censored and ban happy, that I dont want people who participate here on this forum to be banned for posting here.

So, before you go asking people what their ymmss names are here, you should plan on offering them full protection from banning there for posting here. If you do not have that ability and cannot get it done, there is no reason to ask anybody here for their other screen names.

We are here to try to help people see the truth. We welcome pro and anti for anything we discuss, but we do want to protect anybody who posts here.

Now, I'm just a member here, not there, I"m not a mod, or anybody of any significience on these boards, so this post is just my own personal opinion. I cant imagine watchdog or any mod warn me for posting such a horrible lie of what this forum is about.

[Mat_Watcher]

Well, here is the flaw with the retail side paying people to read. The point of advertising is to make money. So, the only way an advertiser will stick with ymmss is if they get back at least 100% of the advertising cost. I think closer to 300% would probably be more beneficial to cover the cost of the product, shipping, and still turn a profit, but using 100% as the figure would mean that not only would ymmss have to give up 100% of their incomes to the advertisers, but money out of their own pocket.

what does relly means this?
People buy everyday things.
Its not up to YMMSS how advertisers spend money.
If they have a good product,good ads to advertize it and the patience that this business needs tryng to sell something,the results will come.
This happen into YMMSS as it happen on TV,newspapers,magazines.


Besides everybody always saying it, what makes ymmss the best thing that happened to advertising? What is so special about ymmss that will make it succeed? What makes it different from similiar programs that have failed?
Similar programs never paid out so high rate of money received.
To get some hundreds of $$ most of them were needed lot of time and efforts.
Lot of referrals doing the same of You and much more of good advertisers to have them paid.
What YMMSS should give to all is the opportunity to have some of the cash they spent on everydays needs back in their pockets sharing a good part of the money received when these everydays needed products or services are advertized with the company.
The new payplan give a best opportunity to be part of the company and receive benefits more easy and fast than the old.
What was done from others in the past can't be compared to what YMMSS should provide worldwide,time period.

many Thanks

[Mat_Watcher]

Here is another reason I find it hard to believe anything kim says. His whole model was based off of people building this wonderful income and being able to retire on just reading ads, earning 6 figures a year for life. But, at the 3 year mark, he realized that its impossible, and he changes the system around pretending like its a more fair system.
The rate of increase of this business is huge and previsions can't be made exactly as in others businesses.
Again I cannot see a change in the whole system.
What is going to changed is the payplan.
I still think that part of the billions spent worldwide on advrtising business ,and not only,can be drived in some others pockets as ours (the victims of this whole business) than the usual big company (the vampire that charge lot of cash to sell something because it cost alot to be advertized).


3 years. Ok, most businesses dont last 3 years. I'll give him that. But when he is fantasizing about a business that will be such a long term life saver for the worlds population to retire off of for somebody who just reads advertising...something is wrong.

When I asked my boss if he ever thought his comic book shop would last 15 years, he declined to answer. I think anybody who goes into business hopes their business lasts them until retirement age and than some, but I also think the smarter ones out there realize they mgiht be out of business in a couple years.

But, no. Kim has a long term business, that if you are talking about retirement income, you gotta figure should last about 40 years. For those who are 25 years old now starting to plan on retiring, to those who are 50 or older hoping to live off of this income.

And yet, at 3 years, it becomes obvious that he cannot do that.

Adverising business exists from tens of years and nevers stopped.
Many ways to make it effective can be added and a 3 years period is nothing compared to whole life it will have,as I think it will be endless,unless the money will be declared out of laws.

What is wrong on having a long term vision on a thing that have endless life applied to another thing with endless life like the Internet?

Surely it needs to be splitted on severals steps to have the result of projects.
Surely it need to be adjusted along its road.
But surely did not will be stopped because problems comes out when not expected ,because they were expected.

Many Thanks

[Dreamer]

Here is the point.

Lets say I spend $2.5million on a superbowl commercial. You can use any example that you want, i'm just using this example to show the difference between real advertising and ymmss. Now, that $2.5million is not going to the 100million+ viewers. How much do these advertisers hope to generate from the commercial? Lets just say $2.5million. That is 100% of the the money used for advertising is gotten back. Of course, they end up losing big time the cost of the product, etc.

But, lets just stick with 100%. And, we'll use 100% as the amount of payouts coming from advertisers.

So, lets say they are able to generate $500k/week strictly from outside resources. Now, in order for the first group of advertisers to stay for a second week, they would need get make at least the $500k. If they cannot, advertising with ymmss is a losing proposition. Those businesses who are not able to make back what they spend on advertising is better off using their advertising dollar on another means, a more focused advertising.

One of the many flaws of ymmss is the audiance of 100k/100k is not the ideal group to advertise to. The only businesses that this group would be ideal to advertise to might be home based businesses or investment opportunities. Obviously a limited number of potential businesses out there.

Advertisers count on targeted markets. Maybe a specific demographic, a specific age group, gender, occupation, hobby, religion, etc.

Back to my point. If the first weeks advertisers dont make back their money, they wont be back for a second week. Same with the second and third and fourth week. By than, potential future advertisers can judge the successfulness of advertising with ymmss.

Now, I hear what your saying. Its advertising. We all buy products. It might be possible for advertisers to make money on ymmss. That would require the members of ymmss to spend $500k/week on the advertisers. so, if you make $100/week, you should spend $100+/week.

So, why would people get involved in a business that they are spending more money than they are making? It simply won't happen.

Kim has had 3 years to find an advertisers, but hasnt found one yet.

So, the only thing that makes ymmss special it gives out alot of money? Ponzis do the same thing. There is nothing special about ymmss than.

[Mat_Watcher]

Here is the point.

Lets say I spend $2.5million on a superbowl commercial. You can use any example that you want, i'm just using this example to show the difference between real advertising and ymmss. Now, that $2.5million is not going to the 100million+ viewers. How much do these advertisers hope to generate from the commercial? Lets just say $2.5million. That is 100% of the the money used for advertising is gotten back. Of course, they end up losing big time the cost of the product, etc.

But, lets just stick with 100%. And, we'll use 100% as the amount of payouts coming from advertisers.

So, lets say they are able to generate $500k/week strictly from outside resources. Now, in order for the first group of advertisers to stay for a second week, they would need get make at least the $500k. If they cannot, advertising with ymmss is a losing proposition. Those businesses who are not able to make back what they spend on advertising is better off using their advertising dollar on another means, a more focused advertising.

One of the many flaws of ymmss is the audiance of 100k/100k is not the ideal group to advertise to. The only businesses that this group would be ideal to advertise to might be home based businesses or investment opportunities. Obviously a limited number of potential businesses out there.

Advertisers count on targeted markets. Maybe a specific demographic, a specific age group, gender, occupation, hobby, religion, etc.

Back to my point. If the first weeks advertisers dont make back their money, they wont be back for a second week. Same with the second and third and fourth week. By than, potential future advertisers can judge the successfulness of advertising with ymmss.

Now, I hear what your saying. Its advertising. We all buy products. It might be possible for advertisers to make money on ymmss. That would require the members of ymmss to spend $500k/week on the advertisers. so, if you make $100/week, you should spend $100+/week.

So, why would people get involved in a business that they are spending more money than they are making? It simply won't happen.

Kim has had 3 years to find an advertisers, but hasnt found one yet.

So, the only thing that makes ymmss special it gives out alot of money? Ponzis do the same thing. There is nothing special about ymmss than.

For the few times I've been involved in some business advertising strategy I never saw a so unusefull plan as You desrcribed above.

I always heared about a % of the planned expenses used to bring a product to sold on longest time period.

I've seen products advertized months before they were available on the markets.

I've seen products advertized while they were available on very few markets.

I've seen products sold without being advertized when available on all the markets.

Why who advertize with YMMSS should have the 100% back after 1 week?

If You have something to sell and decide to use a % of Your budget to advertise it ,You cant stop to advertize if You don't see the result after a week.

People don't buy a thing because was advertized on Superbowls show.
They will buy it because they see it there,on newspapers,magazines,movie's spots and everywhere money spent can allow to place it
and finally on the right place where their eyes fall down walking inside a shop,
place that is part of advertising strategy as company deals with shops owners to have their products on so best viewed place.

The reality of advertising business cannot be applied on a weekly basis taking care only of one place.

People will not need to spend more than they usually spend on daily basis for keep going his life.

Yes,YMMSS is still too small to have good advertisers ,but lot of small activity found usefull to work with and made sales.

What it should keep separated thinking about YMMSS is that the advertisers it need are those have already his business up and running and do not use the EPCs only ,but all the things will be related to YMMSS.

The Internet biz opps that affiliates are tryng to work with advertising on YMMSS are just a must have because they hope,out of YMMSS,to build an income with.

Thousands of these biz opps are worthless,tryng to sell something that really people don't need.so sooner or later they don't last.

The key to turn the YMMSS advertising business on the right road is finding advertisers which are selling something people have to buy and actually is buyng somewhere else.

Advertising with all the tools YMMSS will going to provide and not only purchasing EPCs.

many thanks

[Arzel]

what does relly means this?
People buy everyday things.
Its not up to YMMSS how advertisers spend money.
If they have a good product,good ads to advertize it and the patience that this business needs tryng to sell something,the results will come.
This happen into YMMSS as it happen on TV,newspapers,magazines.

Similar programs never paid out so high rate of money received.
To get some hundreds of $$ most of them were needed lot of time and efforts.
Lot of referrals doing the same of You and much more of good advertisers to have them paid.
What YMMSS should give to all is the opportunity to have some of the cash they spent on everydays needs back in their pockets sharing a good part of the money received when these everydays needed products or services are advertized with the company.
The new payplan give a best opportunity to be part of the company and receive benefits more easy and fast than the old.
What was done from others in the past can't be compared to what YMMSS should provide worldwide,time period.

many Thanks

This logic has been used a number of times regarding YMMSS. For some reason Kim and many members believe that because YMMSS pays a substantial amount of money for reading ads, that they (YMMSS) are somehow different.

However this logic just does not hold. If there was some positive correlation between advertisement revenue and the amount of commissions paid for advertisement readership, than such correlation would have already been determined. And if there was a positive correlations as it were, what is to say that YMMSS has stumbled across the optimal point of commissions?

He certainly didn't do any research into the optimal commissions paid, he simply said he would double your money in 40, 60, 90 days. Ironically Kim is on the path to optimization. The rise in cycle days is the proof that his original understanding was flawed, and they would continue to rise until the optimal point has been reached, or in the case of the new pay structure, the price per share will decrease until the optimal point has been reached, it is inevitable.

[surfer]

First, welcome to Matrix Watch James.

Yep, as far as I'm concerned the very two most important ingrediants of a successful business are integrity and prudent management . Arzel , FYI a business with integrity wouldn't have a worthless product . Nor would one with prudent management.
We view EPCs as virtually worthless, and that is
supported by the fact that there are very few
testimonials about their effectiveness. Affiliates
purchase EPCs almost exclusively because of the
alleged income opportunity attached.

I was concerned that YMMSS could in no way continue indefinately to pay out to those who had mature EPCs . There simply isn't enough money in the entire World to perform that feat . I cycle slowdown pretty well brought that fact to the forfront . That said ,the recent restructuring represents prudent management decisions at thier utmost . The member base was developed on a doubler format which now will be eliminated and " real " business is evolving utilizing one of the most lucritive products existing , retail advertising . Every business needs it but not all forms of advertising are effective . YMMSS will be able to vitually guarantee the retail client their ads will indeed be read . How unique !! I've been a businessman for 45 years , spent several hundreds of thousands for various forms of advertisement and found it more of a crap shoot than the tables at Las Vegas . Ya gotta have it though and because for most there is no adequate guage of effectiveness you simply try to use prudent management judgement. I think YMMSS has really positioned themselves to begin hitting some home runs . If I wasn't retiring in three weeks I was become one of their first retail advertisers . I'll definately refer them to the factories I have reprsented as a distributor . All prudent businesses with integrity . ROTFLMAO!!!

James Hanlon
Redding, Ca

James, the new system suffers from exactly the
same flaws as the old system. It's simply a ponzi
in a different package.

In the old/current system, cycle times continue to
rise because it is impossible to bring in enough
revenue to pay out and cycle all the positions in a
90 day period. Not enough cash flow means that
cycle times rise.

In the new system, rising cycle times will simply
be replaced by diminishing share value as each
and every week new positions reach paying
status.

As far as advertising goes, I do agree with your
"crap shoot" analogy to a degree when it comes
to offline advertising. Companies selling offline
ads will use demographics similar to what Mike
Hamilton is currently gathering to present to their
potential clients.

Online advertising is a bit of a different story
however.

Using Adwords or other PPCSEs is a much more
targeted and efficient use of advertising dollars
than ads to a random bunch of biz opp seekers.

YMMSS/Success Through Advertising can not
guarantee an advertiser that their ad will be read
any more than a newspaper or trade journal can.

The YMMSS business model also fails to take into
consideration human nature. And that is that
only about 5% to 10% will ever participate above
and beyond the bare minimum required, reading
ads.

That 5%-10%, people like esto, Gary Harvey, etc.
are the ones who recruited the majority of members
into YMMSS and are the ones who will definitely go
out of their way to purchase from advertisers instead
of going to the local shop.

That small percentage of ultra-active participants
will not be able to provide advertisers with the
necessary response rate to keep them.

So, Kim has math and human nature going against
him if YMMSS were truly attempting to become a
legitimate business.

[surfer]

@ Mat_Watcher

As a small shop of one of the best names in one of the best street of the biggest towns that do not cover the costs to stay there but it NEED to be there for prestige and the sales generated from all others shops of that name around the same town or country allow its exepenses to be covered.

First, unless you own it or know their rent
and payroll costs versus their revenue, you
can't state that they do not cover their
costs.

Second, if the location is being kept up while
suffering a small loss, this is for branding
purposes as you said. It keeps the name of
the company in front of more people

Extremely huge companies will accept some
losing locations for branding purposes. However,
the vast majority of business need to see results
from their locations or they shut them down.

But even the huge companies have their limits
on acceptable loss versus branding benefits. If
a location is too much in the red, it gets shut
down.

How many company with books in red joined venture with others ,rebuilding each time his products,image and credibility to get out of problems?
A joint venture is not the same thing as we are
discussing here.

How many company have others company owned by same people that generate income one for the other?
Again, this seems to be a reference to the GE type
model. A business owner starts up multiple business
units to expand his own empire and spread out his
risks. He does not start up another business to meet
his payroll for his original business. All need to be
profitable or they are shut down.

Let's say that I own an advertising business ;) and I
also own large amounts of real estate.

My real estate ventures are bringing me $10 million/
year, but my advertising business is losing $5 million/
year. Does it make sound business sense for me to
use my $10 million in profit from real estate to pay
the employees of my advertising business?

Now, it would make some sense if I were using some
of my $10 million in real estate profits to start up a
brand new advertising company and work towards
profitability with it.

But that's not how Kim's system is designed. The
fact that his original plan supposedly calls for outside
income streams illustrates that he knows that the
advertising revenue alone can't support the income
claims he is feeding to his affiliates.

Kim's system(and every other ponzi) is set up so
that the only person who has no risk of losing money
is the owner himself.

His only original cost was the price of web hosting.
For nearly two years, he used yahoo groups for his
safelist advertising.

YMMSS affiliates are paying Kim, each other, and
whatever staff Kim has. Affiliates are footing the
entire bill and have been from the start.

If Kim Inman was running a legitimate business, he
would have to meet his financial obligations to his
affiliate base.

He promised 60-90 day cycle times and he promised
to put funds in to maintain them. These were total
lies and impossible guarantees used to recruit new
members and part them from their money. You may
be able to look past that, but I will not.

Kim Inman is over 6 months behind in his payments.
He is the one that devised this scheme and he is
the one that made the promises that he either
could not or chose not to keep.

Now he needs to be held accountable for ruining
lives by deceiving thousands of people.

I think he already should have much more than how much need to a scammer to run away.
What is going to push him to do what he's doing ,keeping himself on the first line and keep showing his face around the world?
If I was in Kim shoes and I was a scammer I was already runned away or at least hided myself from everything related to YMMSS.

It's called greed Mat_Watcher. Many con men
push the envelope to get as much as they can.

And as one of the other members here pointed
out, many scammers work face to face with
their victims. That's why they are called
confidence men. They are usually very charming,
seem sincere, appear to care about every one
they are victimizing.

How many people do you know that were scammed
by someone who say that he seemed like a crook
all along but we gave him our money anyway?

[happy]

I actually predicted that YMMSS would fail in August. Now, depending on how you look at it you could say that YMMSS has failed, and the new payment structure is a result of that failure. I am hesitant to say how much life the new plan will put back into YMMSS, but when it begins we should be able to accurately predict the continuing slide in value of each 32 EPC share.

It would be very wise of you to at least admit that we have been accurate about the rise in cycle times up to this point.

I think its time that you admit that you were just wrong with your August prediction. Don't just say "depending on how you look at it" it failed. It was restructed, it has not failed. Failure would mean that it is no longer around. Car manufacturers make cars all the time that aren't as big of a seller as they thought so they come up with a new model that they think will sell better. Does that mean they are a failure? No. In a sense they have restructured. Go ahead. Make another prediction about when Ym will fail and at least admit your original prediction was wrong. As far as your predictions about cycle times, you were right, but its nothing that the YM members weren't aware of themselves so you were simply repeating what was already known. Not much of a crystal ball there.

[Arzel]

I think its time that you admit that you were just wrong with your August prediction. Don't just say "depending on how you look at it" it failed. It was restructed, it has not failed. Failure would mean that it is no longer around. Car manufacturers make cars all the time that aren't as big of a seller as they thought so they come up with a new model that they think will sell better. Does that mean they are a failure? No. In a sense they have restructured. Go ahead. Make another prediction about when Ym will fail and at least admit your original prediction was wrong. As far as your predictions about cycle times, you were right, but its nothing that the YM members weren't aware of themselves so you were simply repeating what was already known. Not much of a crystal ball there.

Welcome Happy, although by your tone, I don't think you are all that happy.

It would be a little premature to say my August prediction is incorrect since it is still July. I still have over a month to see YMMSS cmpletely crash. That said, I stand by my statement, and all things considered, YMMSS' model actually failed earlier than I predicted back in February.

The Ponzi model has failed. YMMSS is/was a Ponzi and they are now trying to restructure as something else, it will be interesting to see how this unfolds. But as I said, it is a little difficult to predict what the new model will do. I think a lot of people are holding on to wait and see the new model unveiled, and that could be a while. In the mean time the matrix has all but stalled. If it were not for the $300,000 a month being put back into the system I doubt anymore days will cycle before the new plan is implemented.

[happy]

Welcome Happy, although by your tone, I don't think you are all that happy.

It would be a little premature to say my August prediction is incorrect since it is still July. I still have over a month to see YMMSS cmpletely crash. That said, I stand by my statement, and all things considered, YMMSS' model actually failed earlier than I predicted back in February.

Sorry, I didn't realize I came across as having a "tone". Contrary to what you perceive as a "tone" I am very happy. I know thats hard for you to believe because you would like everyone to be on the "anti-YMMSS" bandwagon with you. I think the changes that YM is making are going in the right direction.

YM will still be around for a long time so I will be waiting on August 31 for you to admit that your prediction was wrong. lol

[lettie]

We view EPCs as virtually worthless, and that is
supported by the fact that there are very few
testimonials about their effectiveness. Affiliates
purchase EPCs almost exclusively because of the
alleged income opportunity attached.




I would like to comment that I have been using the YMMSS forums to advertise the nutritional products I am involved with. On average I am getting 5-8 new customers every month and sales from these customers are more than I paid for my EPC's.

Other affiliates that I have personal contact with, and who are treating YMMSS as the advertising business it is, have also reported success with product sales and member signups in their businesses.

Testimonials have been posted about results with advertising on the YMMSS ad forums.

Lettie

[surfer]

I would like to comment that I have been using the YMMSS forums to advertise the nutritional products I am involved with. On average I am getting 5-8 new customers every month and sales from these customers are more than I paid for my EPC's.

Other affiliates that I have personal contact with, and who are treating YMMSS as the advertising business it is, have also reported success with product sales and member signups in their businesses.

Testimonials have been posted about results with advertising on the YMMSS ad forums.

Lettie

Good for you lettie. That's probably around the
20th testimonial out of over 25,000 members on
the validity of the "product" that I've read.

You obviously know how to write a decent ad. :)

A couple of questions on your cost of ad comparison.
I don't recall if you've been in YMMSS long enough
to cycle(or even if you've stated that info), but
are you only comparing your returns based on initial
cost of EPCs, ignoring the alleged repurchase value?

One reason I'm asking is that I just read that EPCs
will not double in the new system. If you buy 1
EPC, you will not get 2 EPCs 90 days later.

[surfer]

I never attempted to make a prediction as to
when YMMSS would fail. :) I simply said that
Kim couldn't maintain 60-90 day cycle times
and that his guarantees and promises were
lies. Nailed that one. ;)

I guess you think paying people over 6 months
late and getting worse is a roaring success.

If Kim was running a real business where he
was held accountable for paying people on time
he would have been bankrupt months ago.

But since he's running a ponzi scheme and
people are desperate enough to believe any
crap that he feeds them while they wait for
their long overdue payments, he can just
keep fattening his wallet selling a pipe dream.
I think its time that you admit that you were just wrong with your August prediction. Don't just say "depending on how you look at it" it failed. It was restructed, it has not failed. Failure would mean that it is no longer around. Car manufacturers make cars all the time that aren't as big of a seller as they thought so they come up with a new model that they think will sell better. Does that mean they are a failure? No. In a sense they have restructured. Go ahead. Make another prediction about when Ym will fail and at least admit your original prediction was wrong. As far as your predictions about cycle times, you were right, but its nothing that the YM members weren't aware of themselves so you were simply repeating what was already known. Not much of a crystal ball there.

[lettie]

I am basing my figures only on what my initial EPCs cost me. I have ignored the fact that as a bonus I could be receiving a 'commission' (as it is not an investment, I don't want to say 'return') on what I spent, sometime in the future. Whatever monies I will receive once my EPC's have reached the $320 level will be complete profit. I was introduced to this business as an advertising medium for my products and that is how I approached it. I have previously spent a lot of money on various methods of advertising with poor results. Advertising on YMMSS ad forums is working for me and many others. Based on the results I have had, I will continue to purchase EPCs and advertising on their forums, particularly once they are public, as the viewership will be so much greater.

Thanks
Lettie

[surfer]

Thank you lettie.

If the current system assigns a dollar value
to the EPCs, I find it odd that you don't
calculate this in your earnings versus ad
cost.

If what I've read about the new sytem is
true, if a member spends $160, they can
either advertise 16 times in the general ad
forums or one time in the silver ad forums.

If it's true that EPCs are no longer going
to double, that will have a dramatic effect
on the cost effectiveness of your EPC
advertising.

[happy]

I never attempted to make a prediction as to
when YMMSS would fail. :) I simply said that
Kim couldn't maintain 60-90 day cycle times
and that his guarantees and promises were
lies. Nailed that one. ;)

I guess you think paying people over 6 months
late and getting worse is a roaring success.

If Kim was running a real business where he
was held accountable for paying people on time
he would have been bankrupt months ago.

But since he's running a ponzi scheme and
people are desperate enough to believe any
crap that he feeds them while they wait for
their long overdue payments, he can just
keep fattening his wallet selling a pipe dream.

Excuse me Surfer I was replying to Arzel not you. He wrote the original post about August.

[surfer]

Ooops, sorry. I didn't realize it was a private
party. :o

[avenging angel]

bowmaker is my ymmss username , im not trying to hide anything . now whats yours?

That, I will not reveal to you.....
You see, I have ways of finding things out...you know, inside contacts..I'm not only an affiliate.....and ..I'm going to find out exactly how much money you have in YMMSS. and when you joined.
c'este la vie!!!

[Dreamer]

That, I will not reveal to you.....
You see, I have ways of finding things out...you know, inside contacts..I'm not only an affiliate.....and ..I'm going to find out exactly how much money you have in YMMSS. and when you joined.
c'este la vie!!!

Are you threatening him? What gives you the right to get his personal info?

[surfer]

Maybe that will show people like happy
exactly why many members here prefer
to remain as anonymous as possible. You
never know when a nut job like avenging
angel will pop on to the scene.

If avenging angel is an affiliate/employee
of YMMSS, they should be terminated.

[concerned]

That, I will not reveal to you.....
You see, I have ways of finding things out...you know, inside contacts..I'm not only an affiliate.....and ..I'm going to find out exactly how much money you have in YMMSS. and when you joined.
c'este la vie!!!

You must want him to be messed with, because he is hurting your chance to scam others, otherwise, you wouldn't be so vindictive. Here is another example of a brainwashed cult member doing the dirty work for the cult leader.

[lettie]

Surfer - I have spent 160 a month for the last few months - this has allowed me to post an ad every second day in the General ad forum. From these ads I have had success generating enough sales of my product to more than cover the cost of the $160. I have looked only at purchasing new advertising and not worried about when that 160 may double and give me more EPC's or not. I have in the past spent hundreds of $$ on leads, autoresponders, etc and never recovered a dime of what I spent - so I am more than happy with the results I am getting on my retail sales right now. If these positions eventually generate a weekly income, that will be an added bonus. In the meantime, my advertising budget is $160 per month and for that I am getting a great ROI.

Lettie

[avenging angel]

Maybe that will show people like happy
exactly why many members here prefer
to remain as anonymous as possible. You
never know when a nut job like avenging
angel will pop on to the scene.

If avenging angel is an affiliate/employee
of YMMSS, they should be terminated.

And I think that every "so called" member who posts or agrees to the garbage I've seen here, should be terminated from YMMSS. Hey You're not happy?? You like "libeling" your company? Then get the hell out!! You don't have to come crying to a site like this..... what's the point?? To smear a man & his company because of jealousy?? Jealousy is a very ugly trait.... YMMSS & Mr Kim Inman are here to stay.... and there ias NOTHING you can do to stop him! Your hatred, & jealousy doesn't phase him in the least. But it will eat you up inside...like a cancer! Be careful.

[Arzel]

Excuse me Surfer I was replying to Arzel not you. He wrote the original post about August.

Happy,

I have gone through my posts to see exactly how I worded my prediction.

Initally I predicted in early April that in August cycle times would explode causing the structure of YMMSS (stability) to collapse. At that time I had not taken into account one aspect of YMMSS regarding the magical november 18th date. Initially I thought it would be reached and the system would become unstable after that.

Thanks to Surfer's quick point to my model exclusion (less than a day later) I agreed with Surfer and that Nov 18th would not be reached when I predicted. I then restated that I thought YMMSS would run into serious problems (regarding cycle times) in early to mid-summer, and that I did not think the November 18th date would ever be reached.

So I was wrong in regards to cycle times, as they actually ran into serious problems earlier than I originally predicted. But the stability of the matrix has collapsed, and this attempt to restructure is a result of that.

You can disagree with that analogy, but I think most people would agree with me.

[avenging angel]

You must want him to be messed with, because he is hurting your chance to scam others, otherwise, you wouldn't be so vindictive. Here is another example of a brainwashed cult member doing the dirty work for the cult leader.


What does that say under your name??? Matrix Intelligence Chief?? lol

You a Nazi or something??? A legend in your own mind maybe??

You sound like a Nazi to me!! And I'm the nut case ..yeah right!!
Poor little Matrix Intelligence Chief... He's really a Kim Inman wannabe.
tsk tsk....

[avenging angel]

So, who's coming aboard ymmss, and how do you know this? And if they are coming aboard, how come they are not there yet?



Now wouldn't you just LOVE to know!!! But you know NOTHING!

[Dreamer]

Actually, its pretty safe to assume that when somebody asks a question they would like to know the answer.

But, honestly, I could care less, but I was giving you an opportunity to be able to back up anything you said. But, I guess I was expecting too much from you to be able to do that.

[surfer]

Thank you lettie. That's the info I was trying
clarify.

Yuck on lead purchasing. :shake:

If you haven't already done so, you should work
on learning effective PPC marketing in addition to
what you're doing. A number of your fellow
YMMSS mates could probably coach you pretty
well.

As far as advertising in YMMSS, you are one of
the exceptions. Congrats.

Surfer - I have spent 160 a month for the last few months - this has allowed me to post an ad every second day in the General ad forum. From these ads I have had success generating enough sales of my product to more than cover the cost of the $160. I have looked only at purchasing new advertising and not worried about when that 160 may double and give me more EPC's or not. I have in the past spent hundreds of $$ on leads, autoresponders, etc and never recovered a dime of what I spent - so I am more than happy with the results I am getting on my retail sales right now. If these positions eventually generate a weekly income, that will be an added bonus. In the meantime, my advertising budget is $160 per month and for that I am getting a great ROI.

Lettie

[surfer]

And I think that every "so called" member who posts or agrees to the garbage I've seen here, should be terminated from YMMSS. Hey You're not happy?? You like "libeling" your company? Then get the hell out!! You don't have to come crying to a site like this..... what's the point?? To smear a man & his company because of jealousy?? Jealousy is a very ugly trait.... YMMSS & Mr Kim Inman are here to stay.... and there ias NOTHING you can do to stop him! Your hatred, & jealousy doesn't phase him in the least. But it will eat you up inside...like a cancer! Be careful.

Well, I'm sure many members would be happy
to just walk away if Kim would pay them what
he owes them. But poor Kim Inman's ponzi has
fallen over 6 months behind in payments, so
they are trapped until the ponzi can find enough
victims to pay them.

If somebody like you has any access whatsoever
to people's personal information that should be
enough to scare a few people away from YMMSS.

If you have problems with what we believe here,
you are free to present an opposing view. We
now have intelligent YMMSS affiliates like lettie,
Mat_Watcher, trinket, and maybe one or two
others debating like adults rebutting our views
with points that actually make sense.

And then we have people like you and all of the
other Alans ;) who provide nothing of any substance
and attempt to sidetrack, intimidate, insult, etc.

If this place doesn't phase Kim, then it shouldn't
bother you enough to come here and threaten
other affiliates.

We will probably rarely agree with the people I
mentioned above, but at least they are able to
give rational explanations for why they believe in
YMMSS and Kim Inman. You should give it a try
sometime.

[bowmaker]

That, I will not reveal to you.....
QUOTE][QUOTE=avenging angel]You see, I have ways of finding things out...you know, inside contacts..I'm not only an affiliate.....and ..I'm going to find out exactly how much money you have in YMMSS. and when you joined.
c'este la vie!!!

you know , i didnt figure you were ever gonna reveal your username . you can never get a straight answer from a pro ymmss person. i only asked because you said we should at least have the gull to reveal our username , well i did .


and what will finding my join date and how much money i have in ymmss prove to you ? i have done nothing bad in regards to ymmss on this site . check all my post and see . i joined in april and i have $160 in ymmss and $20 of that is from winning a contest from big c on the ym forums . does that make it easier for you ?

at least you could tell me your ym username . instead of being cowardess.pm me your username . im a man of my word and will not reveal your username to others . but if your gonna talk down to me for nothing at least have the balls to let me know who im talking to.

[happy]

Maybe that will show people like happy
exactly why many members here prefer
to remain as anonymous as possible. You
never know when a nut job like avenging
angel will pop on to the scene.

If avenging angel is an affiliate/employee
of YMMSS, they should be terminated.

Surfer, Whats up? What do members wanting to be anonymous have to do with me.? I never said anything about that. Thats the second time you've brought me into something that either doesn't concern me or wasn't a response to you. Have you been sniffing glue or something?? :crazy:
By the way I except your apology :)

[happy]

Happy,

You can disagree with that analogy, but I think most people would.

Yep, I think most people would disagree with that analogy too. :)

[surfer]

Surfer, Whats up? What do members wanting to be anonymous have to do with me.? I never said anything about that. Thats the second time you've brought me into something that either doesn't concern me or wasn't a response to you. Have you been sniffing glue or something?? :crazy:
By the way I except your apology :)


What kind of glue do you have? :D

Actually, my reference to you was
because of your first post on these
forums (http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?p=23677#post23677).

bowmaker used his real username and
then you have a person like avenging
angel coming on here threatening to
use his "inside contacts" to harm him
in some way.

While no threat of physical violence was
directly made in this instance, these are
the exact types of psychos that Arzel
was warning others about in that thread.

[happy]

Lettie,
As a fellow YM member I am glad that your are doing well with your ads in the YM site. I think a lot of people are finding business there contrary to what the MW's think. I think that most YM members do not have anything to advertise, thats the reason for the announcement section. But the most important requirement right now is to read ads and support their fellow members who do have a product or opportunity. They can surely read the ads and shortly when the retail site is up that part of their agreement will become very important. But for right now the real advertisers like yourself are benefiting from their reading and purchasing. The other part of their agreement is to place ads which is the less important part of this business if you really don't have anything to advertise which is why some people are selling or giving away their advertising credits to someone who can use them. The MW's like to think of the "birthday annoucements" as a big joke but what they don't mention is that this is just one part of the agreement (to place ads) but the most important part is to read them and that will become much more important soon.
Good luck with your business!
Happy :)

[Arzel]

Yep, I think most people would disagree with that analogy too. :)

I was expecting a more mature answer from you Happy, but you ignore the context of the post and focus on a misstated phrase. It wouldn't be so bad, but the context of my post implies the point I was trying to convey.

[Arzel]

Lettie,
As a fellow YM member I am glad that your are doing well with your ads in the YM site. I think a lot of people are finding business there contrary to what the MW's think. I think that most YM members do not have anything to advertise, thats the reason for the announcement section. But the most important requirement right now is to read ads and support their fellow members who do have a product or opportunity. They can surely read the ads and shortly when the retail site is up that part of their agreement will become very important. But for right now the real advertisers like yourself are benefiting from their reading and purchasing. The other part of their agreement is to place ads which is the less important part of this business if you really don't have anything to advertise which is why some people are selling or giving away their advertising credits to someone who can use them. The MW's like to think of the "birthday annoucements" as a big joke but what they don't mention is that this is just one part of the agreement (to place ads) but the most important part is to read them and that will become much more important soon.
Good luck with your business!
Happy :)

We know most don't have anything to advertise, and if they have nothing to advertise, why are they buying advertising space?

[ycchen]

We know most don't have anything to advertise, and if they have nothing to advertise, why are they buying advertising space?

May be esto can give us a better answer?

[avenging angel]

[QUOTE=avenging angel]That, I will not reveal to you.....
QUOTE]

you know , i didnt figure you were ever gonna reveal your username . you can never get a straight answer from a pro ymmss person. i only asked because you said we should at least have the gull to reveal our username , well i did .

*** this statement alond with the fact that you only joined in April, knowing full well abot the CT proves to me you were NEVER "pro YMMSS"...Kim Inman knows that there were as-holes who joined simply to try & disrupt the membership...I've heard them on the conference calls. Probably guys from this board.
Why did you visit this site anyway?? Had the cycle time not gone up, your little pittance wouldn't have even cycled yet???

So what exactly is your problem??
You know, Forget it ...this Board is full of Nazi Socialist PIGS!! And I will no longer waste another rmoment of my time.

And Arzel, don't worry...you won't have to blackball me ..This cultist won't be back.





and what will finding my join date and how much money i have in ymmss prove to you ? i have done nothing bad in regards to ymmss on this site . check all my post and see . i joined in april and i have $160 in ymmss and $20 of that is from winning a contest from big c on the ym forums . does that make it easier for you ?

at least you could tell me your ym username . instead of being cowardess.pm me your username . im a man of my word and will not reveal your username to others . but if your gonna talk down to me for nothing at least have the balls to let me know who im talking to.

[happy]

We know most don't have anything to advertise, and if they have nothing to advertise, why are they buying advertising space?

Advertising space can be used to advertise someone elses business. As in my case I do not have a business to advertise but I have friends and family who do so I advertise for them. I do this to help them. I believe I can also use my credits to advertise for any business and have them pay me to advertise for them. My benefit of course is that I am getting paid to read the ads. What I choose to use my credits for is up to me.

[Arzel]

Advertising space can be used to advertise someone elses business. As in my case I do not have a business to advertise but I have friends and family who do so I advertise for them. I do this to help them. I believe I can also use my credits to advertise for any business and have them pay me to advertise for them. My benefit of course is that I am getting paid to read the ads. What I choose to use my credits for is up to me.

You just said that most people don't have anything to advertise, which is why there is an announcement section. And it is a well known fact that many people have nothing to advertise and instead post recipes and happy birthdays.

So, I reiterate my question. Why purchase advertising if you have nothing to advertise?

You have already just stated that your primary reason is to get paid to read ads. You certainly didn't join just to buy advertising space for your friends and family, they could do that for themselves. You have just shown that you joined for the Ponzi nature of YMMSS.

[bowmaker]

avenging angel said

this statement alond with the fact that you only joined in April, knowing full well abot the CT proves to me you were NEVER "pro YMMSS"...Kim Inman knows that there were as-holes who joined simply to try & disrupt the membership...I've heard them on the conference calls. Probably guys from this board.


as for me knowing about the cycle times , yes when i joined they were 160 days . before we joined we contacted kim and he had one of his high up boys meet with us to explain it all to us .i will tell you who it was once you reveal your ym username . but anyway , kims big wig guy assured us that they were only 3 weeks away from the november 18th date and cycle times would come back down to 90 days before or around june . so even the the cycle times were high when i joined , i still joined based on a lie after sitting down talking to one of kims puppets.

[happy]

You just said that most people don't have anything to advertise, which is why there is an announcement section. And it is a well known fact that many people have nothing to advertise and instead post recipes and happy birthdays.

So, I reiterate my question. Why purchase advertising if you have nothing to advertise?

You have already just stated that your primary reason is to get paid to read ads. You certainly didn't join just to buy advertising space for your friends and family, they could do that for themselves. You have just shown that you joined for the Ponzi nature of YMMSS.

I will say it again...and I can only speak for myself...I use my credits to advertise for other people, they also use their own credits. I did not say that my "primary" reason for joining was to be paid, I said that was my benefit. I said I did not have a business to advertise. Thats at the moment. I do have a small business that I was supposed to advertise but I found that I have enough orders locally that I can't do any more.
I did not join for "the Ponzi nature " of anything. I believe with ponzis you expect your money to just increase without doing anything for it. I buy advertising space for myself or anyone who can use it and I get paid to read ads and I sometimes purchase products which in turn helps the advertisers. I am being paid for a service, whats wrong with that.? When I want to advertise something of my own I can do that too.

[Arzel]

I will say it again...and I can only speak for myself...I use my credits to advertise for other people, they also use their own credits. I did not say that my "primary" reason for joining was to be paid, I said that was my benefit. I said I did not have a business to advertise. Thats at the moment. I do have a small business that I was supposed to advertise but I found that I have enough orders locally that I can't do any more.
I did not join for "the Ponzi nature " of anything. I believe with ponzis you expect your money to just increase without doing anything for it. I buy advertising space for myself or anyone who can use it and I get paid to read ads and I sometimes purchase products which in turn helps the advertisers. I am being paid for a service, whats wrong with that.? When I want to advertise something of my own I can do that too.

So why did you join?

To be a member of YMMSS requires one initial thing. To purchase advertisment. You are required to read advertisement to get paid, but not to post advertisement. Would you have joined or continued to purchase advertisement if you had not been paid double back your advertisement.

Actually a Ponzi is a system of taking money from late investors/members and giving it to early investors/members. So many people get caught up on the "We are selling something so it is legal" line of thought that they don't ever do any research themselves.

The real key is whether the item you are buying is something that you would purchase for the stated value if it were not attached to some other return.

The fact that EPC's were selling for pennies on the dollar on the YMAuction site, yet people were still buying them for face value on the YM Advertisement site, is prima-facie evidence that the EPC itself holds little or no value, and the purpose for purchase was to gain positions which would double in value. So it is clear that your primary reason for purchasing additional advertisement was the gain of addtional positions within the Matrix/Ponzi. Why can't you just admit that?

[happy]

So why did you join?

To be a member of YMMSS requires one initial thing. To purchase advertisment. You are required to read advertisement to get paid, but not to post advertisement. Would you have joined or continued to purchase advertisement if you had not been paid double back your advertisement.

Actually I did join originally for both reasons - being able to advertise where I'm sure that some percentage of the members will look at my ad and because I'm getting paid to read their ads. Its true that if it was just the advertising part I may not have been inclined to join but this way the benefits are two fold. I think thats pretty smart. As it turns out, I couldn't and still can't use the ads because I have too much work now but acquaintances can and do put them to good use. And yes I have also continued to purchase EPC's and they are being used as intended and no I have been paid back double.

Actually a Ponzi is a system of taking money from late investors/members and giving it to early investors/members. So many people get caught up on the "We are selling something so it is legal" line of thought that they don't ever do any research themselves.

The real key is whether the item you are buying is something that you would purchase for the stated value if it were not attached to some other return.

Just because the item I am buying does not have a value to me right this minute doesn't mean that it doesn't have value to someone else and it doesn't mean it won't have a value to me in the future. Think about a gift that you give to someone, something they asked for. It probably doesn't have any value to you but it does to them, Does that mean it's worthless...no. As I've stated before, my reason for purchasing was two fold. Just because you feel it has no value doesn't mean it's not valuable to someone.

The fact that EPC's were selling for pennies on the dollar on the YMAuction site, yet people were still buying them for face value on the YM Advertisement site, is prima-facie evidence that the EPC itself holds little or no value, and the purpose for purchase was to gain positions which would double in value. So it is clear that your primary reason for purchasing additional advertisement was the gain of addtional positions within the Matrix/Ponzi. Why can't you just admit that?

I know that the MW's make statements a lot about what they feel is the worthlessness of YM's ad space and they like to say that no one is making money there. Could it be that the people who are doing good there just don't visit here and feel the need to tell everyone their business? They probably avoid this site like the plague.
Do you think that just because some of the ex-YMer's in this forum who placed ads and didn't make any money that everyone doesn't? Maybe it's the product or service they were selling. It could have been a great product or service but if it's not something that the general public wants or needs then it would probably not generate any sales. Like the best large construction equipment available or gravel by the ton. Not many average people want that.

[Arzel]

I know that the MW's make statements a lot about what they feel is the worthlessness of YM's ad space and they like to say that no one is making money there. Could it be that the people who are doing good there just don't visit here and feel the need to tell everyone their business? They probably avoid this site like the plague.
Do you think that just because some of the ex-YMer's in this forum who placed ads and didn't make any money that everyone doesn't? Maybe it's the product or service they were selling. It could have been a great product or service but if it's not something that the general public wants or needs then it would probably not generate any sales. Like the best large construction equipment available or gravel by the ton. Not many average people want that.

If you go to YM Auctions, you will see that some people try to sell EPC's on the Auction website. However, the price being paid for those EPC's would lead any rational person to believe they are for all practical purposes worthless.

I am not making this up. I didn't just one day decide to state that an EPC is worth about 1.0% of what people pay for them initially. But it is the truth, and it is easily obtained from YM's own site. Some people are even giving them away on the Moneymaker forums.

Don't be so naive about the services being advertised by YMMSS, there are many people that have access to the advertisements that have informed me of the advertisements.

[happy]

If you go to YM Auctions, you will see that some people try to sell EPC's on the Auction website. However, the price being paid for those EPC's would lead any rational person to believe they are for all practical purposes worthless.

Okay so the people trying to sell them are trying to make a little extra money from someone who might need them. Why does that bother you, they can do with them what they like.

I am not making this up. I didn't just one day decide to state that an EPC is worth about 1.0% of what people pay for them initially. But it is the truth, and it is easily obtained from YM's own site. Some people are even giving them away on the Moneymaker forums.

If someone wants to give them away why does this bother you? I give them away all the time.

Don't be so naive about the services being advertised by YMMSS, there are many people that have access to the advertisements that have informed me of the advertisements.

Why do you say I'm being naive? Do you know for certain that no one is making money with their ads? Don't forget your informants are most likely anti-YM so their opinions may be skewed

I am sure that will we have to agree to disagree. Because I'm not likely to change my opinions and you're not likely to change yours :)

[Arzel]

Originally Posted by Arzel
If you go to YM Auctions, you will see that some people try to sell EPC's on the Auction website. However, the price being paid for those EPC's would lead any rational person to believe they are for all practical purposes worthless.

Okay so the people trying to sell them are trying to make a little extra money from someone who might need them. Why does that bother you, they can do with them what they like.

One of the selling aspect of the EPC's was that members can buy then at wholesale and sell them at retail. I have no problem with that, however when you buy one for $10 and then sell it for $0.10 your wholesale price is greater than the retail price. You have in effect lost 99% of your money on the sale. If you have no use for the advertisement, why would you sell them for 1% of their value? The only reason anyone can see is that people purchase them for the opportunity to double their money, the actual item being sold (advertisement) is WORTHLESS to the vast majority of members.


I am not making this up. I didn't just one day decide to state that an EPC is worth about 1.0% of what people pay for them initially. But it is the truth, and it is easily obtained from YM's own site. Some people are even giving them away on the Moneymaker forums.


If someone wants to give them away why does this bother you? I give them away all the time.

Again, do what ever you want with them, but if you are going to give them away, WHY BUY THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE?


Don't be so naive about the services being advertised by YMMSS, there are many people that have access to the advertisements that have informed me of the advertisements.


Why do you say I'm being naive? Do you know for certain that no one is making money with their ads? Don't forget your informants are most likely anti-YM so their opinions may be skewed


You are naive if you believe that people purchase the advertisement in general for the advertising aspect. Most of my informants were/are former/current members that actually believed in YMMSS at one time.


I am sure that will we have to agree to disagree. Because I'm not likely to change my opinions and you're not likely to change yours


Your opinion has no basis on any fact, and your only logical reason to dissagree is because you have no intention on agreeing that your primary reason for the purchase of advertisement was for the doubling aspect of the position attached to the EPC.

My opinion is based on fact. I have seen the advertisements, I have seen people try to sell EPC's for a fraction of what they are worth. I have seen people give away EPC's. I have seen people give away over 100 EPC's, which should be worth $1,000 dollars.

Your argument is as old as those poor souls that tried to argue their multiple purchase of the same e-book for multiple positions within the many matrix sites that have existed in the past.

[Dreamer]

Arzel, your a bright guy, but I think you might be wrong with this statement:

I am not making this up. I didn't just one day decide to state that an EPC is worth about 1.0% of what people pay for them initially. But it is the truth, and it is easily obtained from YM's own site. Some people are even giving them away on the Moneymaker forums.

They are worth 1% on the closed market selling to like minded individuals. Like minded individuals will typically pay more than other people, since it might not even interst the general population. The best example I can come up with is baseball cards.

Beckett produces a price guide for baseball cards. If a certain card has a value of $10, that means on average, across the country, that card is being sold for $10. So, some shops might sell it for $8 (if the player isnt liked in that area), $9-$10 for average stores, and maybe upwards of $15 for the local hero.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with anything, except that the population that goes to baseball card shops are willing to purchase the product for approximate fair market value (baseball card $10, EPCs 1%).

The more realistic value, however, is the price it is sold away from the business, like eBay. If that same $10 card can be found on eBay, similiar condition, not a scam ad, for $2, than most people would rather pay the $2 online. And, this is the price thats quoted when a business considers buying such a card...so worst case scenario, if the card sells for $2 online, I can probably sell it for $2 online also, so I will offer $1.50.

That said, doing a quick search for EPCs or ymmss on ebay didnt return any results. Why is that? Matrix sites were popular to sell on eBay. if an EPC is truely worth $10 why not sell it on eBay?

Its probably safe to assume, that among those in the know, an EPC has the value of about 1% its selling price. Outside of the ymmss community, it has absolutely no value whatsoever.

[Leonidas]

a friend pointed me to this site. I am anxious to get up to speed and discuss what is really going on with YMMSS

L

[Arzel]

a friend pointed me to this site. I am anxious to get up to speed and discuss what is really going on with YMMSS

L

Welcome Leonidas,

Feel free to share your thoughts.

[Leonidas]

my first thought would be this. why do so many people in ymmss take the word of the mods and esto that this program is fair and the best on the net when these same people made those same claims when they were members of other mlm's that went down the tubes. why trust people like that?

L

[MatrixWatch]

my first thought would be this. why do so many people in ymmss take the word of the mods and esto that this program is fair and the best on the net when these same people made those same claims when they were members of other mlm's that went down the tubes. why trust people like that?

L

Exactly. And additionally, why not take seriously a group of people have been forecasting the collapse of these sorts of schemes for two years now, and dealt with this sort of "blind-faith investing" several times over?

We present mathematics, logic, and historical examples, yet the only response seems to be, "But you don't know how nice the other really is!"

Good grief! :shake:

[speedracer]

I am a newbie around here and have been a member of YMMSS since April of 2004. Yes I have made quite a bit of money in YMMSS. However I am not proud of this by any means. After watching the excuses and changes made to this program over the last 8 months, I can honestly say this so called business is going nowhere. My heart goes out to the people who joined YMMSS recently and can only hope that one day in the near future justice will be served! I hope that I am wrong, however at this point it looks like everyone on this sight has been correct with their predictions. I bought into this program under the impression that Kim was making intelligent investments with the money being brought into YMMSS. Obviously I was wrong!!! I have already paid back every NEW member who I personally brought into YMMSS with the money that I made, seeing that they will never have the opportunity to cycle. I know I can’t help everyone involved, however at least I can sleep at night now. Unfortunately they are thousands of other members who may never recover their money. I can only see sad times ahead for many YMMSSers. With sincere regrets, Speedracer.

[lettie]

If YMMSS members who frequent this forum and others like it, spent their time reading articles like the following, they may realise that they have an incredible opportunity before them. YMMSS is a business and not a get rich quick scheme. There are exciting times ahead and I would not want to be any place else. Lettie

U.S News and World Report - August 2005 Edition - Money and Business section. page 36.

"PUBLISHERS AND TV EXECS SCRAMBLE FOR ONLINE ADS"

"NEWSPAPERS, RADIO, TV AND MAGAZINES ARE SCRAMBLING TO BOOST THEIR WEB PRESENCE"

"We need to redirect our resources into areas that are paying off for us such as on-line"

Each one is turning to the internet, where the advertisers increasingly want to be"

"ONLINE ADVERTISING IS EXPECTED TO TOTAL 12.9 BILLION IN 2005"

[avago181]

"PUBLISHERS AND TV EXECS SCRAMBLE FOR ONLINE ADS"

"NEWSPAPERS, RADIO, TV AND MAGAZINES ARE SCRAMBLING TO BOOST THEIR WEB PRESENCE"

Internet advertising is indeed a growth industry, however, tv companies, newspapers, magazines etc are likely to advertise on reputable sites. I cannot see them rushing to advertise on ymmss.

[Deso]

Surely the best media for advertising would be tv and publishing itself!!
Why would a TV co. pay for an advert in a paid-to-watch advertising campaign!?.. :head:
This beggars belief. :confused:
If folks want to plow their money into such schemes then kindly email me at:
Iwannastealyourmoneyandlaugh@mybigmansion.com
and I will gladly "invest" your money in my house. Dont worry.. you'll still have your original investment secure, its just that I will have it tied up in building blocks. But hey.. "Dontcha feel real good about helping me out?" :evil:

Im really sad that folks still succumb to these plots. but hey? what can you do except appear on these forums? :shake:

[Dreamer]

Businesses would pay up to $50 an hour for website creation. I'd imagine the big name corporations would probably salary a group of individuals highly skilled in web site design upwards of 6 figures to design a killer site. So, even if the figure is 12billion for internet advertising, I would imagine about half would stay in house to pay webmasters to design a site and put it out there.

That is ultimately where the advertising will stay is on their own websites.

Why is the internet the future for advertising?

1. More and more people are shopping online, thanks to eBay and Amazon and other big sites that will sell everything.

2. People are getting smarter because the cost of products are more readily available to them online.

3. Sites like epinion and other sites that give out reviews on products make consumers smarter purchasers for better quality products.

4. Search engines like yahoo and google make finding any information available to even the most computer illeteriate people, so long as they can figure out appropriate search terms.

TV advertising is failing because commercial breaks were always bathroom time, get the chips time, or see what is playing on other stations. With more and more familys having cable with commercial free channels, people dont watch commercials anymore. Even with Tivo and other things to skip commercials or to record tv shows without commercials, and of course, downloading commercial free tv shows is hurting tv advertisement. Businesses cannot abonden tv because they still need branding.

Radio suffers the same problems, but since most people listen to th radio at work or in the car, commercials are typically not remembered since it is passive listening, instead of activing watching that tv offers.

Magainzes have problems also because if the advertisement has nothing to do with the magazine, chances are nobody will pay attention. And, since there are already dozens of other businesses advertising their similiar products in speciality magazines, magazine advertising suffers from too many competitors.

So, the internet is the way to go. However, as mentioned earlier, the cost of advertising will mostly go into the pockets of the webmasters.

Internet advertising will not change.

1. Business creates outstanding website, meta ing everything it can.
2. Business makes sure all the search engines know the page exist.
3. Business sells on eBay, and other places to make sales and drive customers.
4. Business buys tv spots, magazine pages, etc, including the url to their domain.
5. Business prints out business cards with url.

All of that is common. The next step would be banner ads.

Do they want to advertise on drudgereport or RushLimbaugh sites? Do they want to advertise on news related sites or conusumer advocate sites?

The ideal place to advertise on the internet would actually be on a site that people are researching information in order to buy a product. Like consumerreports. If somebody is going to consumerreports to find information on the best vacuum cleaners on the market, that woudl be the ideal location to put your banner for a vacuum cleaner. The point beint, that the people who are research on a product are at the final steps of purchasing the product.

What stage are consumers in that read advertisements? Actually, they are at the very bottom. Someone who watches a tv commercial has made no commitment to want to purchase anything. Even the classifieds or even more targeted advertising, the consumers are only on stage 3 out of 5 (I forget the exact numbers, but somebody more knowledgeable in business and advertising can correct me). They are obviously looking to purchase, but they are not at the point of actually making a purchase.

So, if the internet is the wave of the future for advertising, wouldnt a "safe-list" be a good idea to advertise on? After all, the members agree to read advertisements on this list.

Well, actually no. The memberbase of a safe list is actually probably the worst group of people to advertise to. See, the obvious thing is that these people are rewarded in someway to read advertising. With ymmss, they are rewarded financially. So, you see, the main purpose for somebody to be on this safe list is to make money reading advertising.

Well, the main goal of selling a product is to make people depart with their money. A person who goes to the mall has an objective to buy product. To trade their money they earned to buy something. The main purpose somebody has to go to work is to make money.

If the primary objective is to make money and ur spending money will affect the advertisers just as much as your single vote in a national election, there becomes a disincentitive to purchase product. After all, by spending money at work you are making less money than you would have otherwise.

Even being a part of a safe list does not change the basic nature of a consumer. To research a product before purchasing it, and only if its a wonderful deal.

There will still be people who will buy products thru ymmss that they would normally buy, like clicking on a walmart banner to buy that way instead of thru walmart directly. Even for similiar substitutes they have a potential to be a little successful. Like if a person normally shops at target, but walmart is a good alternative, so lets buy from walmart thru ymmss.

Even that is typically not good enough to advertise with, because it is not bringing new customers, which is the goal, but it is mearly changing the way people buy from them.

But, lets get back to reality. Somebody who spent $3200 buying 10 $320 positions hoping to earn 6 figures based on a previous promise, and will now be getting like $30/week off that $3200 is in real no financial condition to buy anything from anybody. Their main goal actually will be to get their $3200 back, but that may take several years.

[bigdaddy]

I am greatly aware that controversy and lachrymation rolls a forum along quite nicely, but YM is still exclusive by comparison to the sometimes rabid I/net fraternity in its payouts.

Since January first 2004 almost one hundred million dollars has soothed members purses with a promise of much more to come with the implimentation of the new system.

It appears that this not insgnificant fact has escaped the YM naysayers.

A lack of patience and a love of money has greatly contributed to the hate YM ethic exuding from the duplicitous hearts of many forum posters.

Instead, be patient, give the new system a chance to blossom and prosper before you blast its rudder off and despatch it across the horizon with its backside on fire.

God Bless

Michelle's Big daddy

[surfer]

I am greatly aware that controversy and lachrymation rolls a forum along quite nicely, but YM is still exclusive by comparison to the sometimes rabid I/net fraternity in its payouts.
Yes, con games involving large sums of money do
tend to create quite a buzz, don't they.
Since January first 2004 almost one hundred million dollars has soothed members purses with a promise of much more to come with the implimentation of the new system.
lol lol Kim Inman has pocketed more million's from
this ponzi game than all of the YMMSS members
combined.

There has been nowhere near the $93M quoted as
"paid" lining anyone purses except Kim.
It appears that this not insgnificant fact has escaped the YM naysayers.
Nope, there have been multimillion dollar ponzis
before and there will be multimillion dollar ponzis
after.
A lack of patience and a love of money has greatly contributed to the hate YM ethic exuding from the duplicitous hearts of many forum posters.
Kim Inman's love of money and the lies that he
told to pry it from the pockets of members are
definitely not looked upon favorably.
Instead, be patient, give the new system a chance to blossom and prosper before you blast its rudder off and despatch it across the horizon with its backside on fire.

God Bless

Michelle's Big daddy
Sorry bigdaddy, but we simply do not just gloss
over Kim Inman's previous lies, deceptions, hype,
broken promises and guarantees, etc. just because
he comes out with a new pay structure.

The new system is just as flawed as the old system
in that "share value" can't be sustained long term.

The fact that 3 weeks after his announcement, he
has not found time in his busy schedule to give
affiliates any idea of what they would currently be
earning under the new system speaks volumes to
me. More and more I have to believe that his
example was on the high side, perhaps triple a
realistic presentation. Once again, much better
for the master to keep the flock guessing than
share the truth.

[Arzel]

I am greatly aware that controversy and lachrymation rolls a forum along quite nicely, but YM is still exclusive by comparison to the sometimes rabid I/net fraternity in its payouts.

Since January first 2004 almost one hundred million dollars has soothed members purses with a promise of much more to come with the implimentation of the new system.

It appears that this not insgnificant fact has escaped the YM naysayers.

A lack of patience and a love of money has greatly contributed to the hate YM ethic exuding from the duplicitous hearts of many forum posters.

Instead, be patient, give the new system a chance to blossom and prosper before you blast its rudder off and despatch it across the horizon with its backside on fire.

God Bless

Michelle's Big daddy

Surfer responded quite nicely, but I do have a couple additional points.

The $100 million is actually a fact which has been mentioned by many, including me.

The following from Useless information - Charles Ponzi (http://home.nycap.rr.com/useless/ponzi/)

An estimated 40,000 people had entrusted an estimated fifteen million dollars (about $140 million in U.S. funds today) in Ponzi’s scheme. A final audit of his books concluded that he had taken in enough funds to buy approximately 180,000,000 postal coupons, of which they could only actually confirm the purchase of two.


Those numbers are hauntingly similar to the 25,000 members, with an estimated $100 million invested. ($4,000 average per YMMSS member, and $3,500 average per Ponzi investor in today's dollars).

Ponzi also had a 90 day double guarentee and, by all acounts, was a very open and outwardly honest appearing man. There are actually many similarites between the two in regards to the numbers regarding the Ponzi scheme and YMMSS.

A lack of patience and a love of money has greatly contributed to the hate YM ethic exuding from the duplicitous hearts of many forum posters.

I take particular offense to the this statement. We, at Matrix Watch have no interest in the money of YMMSS members, we only wish to expose these scams for what they are.

[Dreamer]

Actually, according to Esto, here are the approximate numbers

Total money put into system: $93million/.78 = $120 million

Kims share: $27million

Amount actually withdrawn: $93million*.02 = $2 million.

So, the true amount of money put intot he system is about $30 million. Out of that, the members have 10%, Kim has 90%.

Who exactly is getting rich?

BTW, both Kim and Esto has said claim via website is only about 2%. My question to Esto was how much was withdrawn and not put back into the system, and that was the 2% figure. I'm not sure if that takes into cosideration the $320 -> $640, withdraw $320, reinvest $320.

Now, with math, the way to check an equation is to plug in some numbers see if it makes sence

$10 - 20 - 40 - 80 - 160 - 320 - 640

$2.2 - 4.4 - 8.8 - 17.6 - 35.2 - 70.4

So, for $10 to reach $320 reaccuring, $320 gets paid to the member, and kim keeps $138.6, or 43%.

But, how many positions have gone from $10 - $640? Not that many. But the poitions at less that $320 is all in kims pocket. Hasnt paid it out yet. So, while the members are encouraged to buy $10 EPCs that insures kim gets more. And, while people have had faith in this program, they let their $320s split into 2 upon cycle.

[surfer]

There's part of the problem Dreamer.

The commissions paid stats are accurately
described by the title of this thread. lol

YMMSS has not brought in anywhere near
$93M in revenue.

At best I would say it's 50%-60% of that
amount with Kim pocketing 60%-70% or
more of that amount and the rest actually
being paid out.

Here's a very simple example to give a more
accurate picture of Kim Inman's take in this
ponzi.

Let's say there are 500,000 positions and 20%
of them are mature 320s set to recurring income
and the rest have a current average value of
$80 and will double to $160 when they cycle.

Revenue necessary to pay the mature positions
= 100,000 X $400 = 40,000,000 Kim gets $8M
and members get $32M. Commissions paid stats
claim $64M paid.

Revenue necessary to cycle the other positions
= 400,000 X $160 X 0.25 = $16M. Kim keeps all
of that and the stats show another $64M paid.

Stats show $128M paid.
Actually revenue = $56M....43.75% of $128M
Members get $32M....57.14% of $56M
Kim Inman gets $20M....42.86% of $56M

Earlier in the ponzi Kim's cut was an even bigger
percentage and he had to pay out a lot less

The cycle times are on a continuous climb now
because more real revenue is needed to actually
pay people real money as opposed to cycled
money.

So not only does a $500K day from last October
have to show over $1M "paid" when it cycles, it
also needs a higher percentage of real revenue
to show that $1M+ as "paid" because more
positions are reaching maturity.

[Arzel]

It is difficult to really know for sure. I don't know if I completely beieve Esto's or Kim's estimates. I think they are quite a bit higher than that, and they simply state the low Claim By Website figures to encourage more reinvestment into YMMSS. Plus the recuring income doesn't figure into the CBW does it?

In any case the original Ponzi had a bunch of reinvestment as well. One things is clear though. The actuall amounts are much less than stated, and Kim has taken a huge chunk.

[Dreamer]

I think my numbers are actually pretty accurate. I think the amount that kim has kept for himself is 100% accurate. If the current stats are $93million, $120million would be required to pay off $93million, and the difference is the $27million. This number should be agreed upon and seems accurate.

I also think that the 2% is pretty accurate, or at least sounds accurate. But my assumption was the 2% was over the life of the program. I think that more people today would rather have a pay out than let it recycle anymore since it has taken along time to cycle, and they lost faith. So, that 2% might be todays figure (kind of like alans 40% lie), and it might be lower previously while people were trying to build up the number of positions believing the lie. So, i think the 2% is accurate of claiming via website.

Also, a problem with that 2% does it represent the amount paid out, or just of the 320s? so, even that figure could be misleading. But, I think 2% of the total $93million would be a healhy assumption, and if it errors, it would error on being high.

Now, the last piece of my puzzle would be how much has been taken out by members for reaccuring incomes? Are there any statistics of how many 6 figure earners there are? Probably not. Even the amount of mature positions is unknown, but taking 100,000 as the current amount, how much of that has been withdrawn?

Well, a cycle ago, there were probably 50,000 mature positions, and a cycle before that 25,000 mature positions, etc. While that might not be that accurate, if I'm erroring it would probably be an increase in mature positions is more rapid (so maybe 35,000 mature positions last cycle instead of 50,000) which would strengthen my assumption even better.

Adding up all the halves, we get close to 100%, or probably out of the 100,000 positions, they probably each paid an average of 1 $320 into the members pocket, and $320 went to be reinvested.

I will even go ahead and double this amount, because probably the mature positions have slowed down this last year along with everything else, so maybe instead of 50,000 mature potions last cycle, it might only have a detoriation rate of 25% (as opposed to 50% that I originally suggested).

So...

100,000 - 75,000 - 56,000 - 42,000 - 31,000 - 23,000

About 200%, or 200,000 recycled positions each paying out $320.

So, kim has $27million
Claim via website has $3million
Matured 320s paid out $7million

So, rounding off the numbers once again, there was probably $40million that went into the system (that sounds about right). Kim has $27million (this should be accurate based on ymmss own numbers_, and the members have $13million (i personally think this is way too high, but i think its a very generous prediction).

Kim has about 2/3s of all the money that went into the system, the members have 1/3.

I wonder how long it took kim to come up with this plan of how much he wanted from the pot. People may say 22% isnt bad, but that 22% compounded like how he has been doing it ending up taking a 2/3rds majority of the pie. And, what has he shown for it? About $1million in claimed outside incomes that he wont admit where they came from.

[Mat_Watcher]

Sorry,I'm hard to understand Your math.
Please will You try to explain better what asked on quoted lines below?


I think my numbers are actually pretty accurate. I think the amount that kim has kept for himself is 100% accurate. If the current stats are $93million, $120million would be required to pay off $93million, and the difference is the $27million. This number should be agreed upon and seems accurate.

Which formula did You used ?


I also think that the 2% is pretty accurate, or at least sounds accurate. But my assumption was the 2% was over the life of the program. I think that more people today would rather have a pay out than let it recycle anymore since it has taken along time to cycle, and they lost faith. So, that 2% might be todays figure (kind of like alans 40% lie), and it might be lower previously while people were trying to build up the number of positions believing the lie. So, i think the 2% is accurate of claiming via website.
Also, a problem with that 2% does it represent the amount paid out, or just of the 320s? so, even that figure could be misleading. But, I think 2% of the total $93million would be a healhy assumption, and if it errors, it would error on being high.

The 2% You assume it was is related to # of affiliates or matured positions?


Now, the last piece of my puzzle would be how much has been taken out by members for reaccuring incomes? Are there any statistics of how many 6 figure earners there are? Probably not. Even the amount of mature positions is unknown, but taking 100,000 as the current amount, how much of that has been withdrawn?

What You mean for "has been withdrawn?"?


Well, a cycle ago, there were probably 50,000 mature positions, and a cycle before that 25,000 mature positions, etc. While that might not be that accurate, if I'm erroring it would probably be an increase in mature positions is more rapid (so maybe 35,000 mature positions last cycle instead of 50,000) which would strengthen my assumption even better.

Do You mean last cycle paid 35.000 matured positions?


Adding up all the halves, we get close to 100%, or probably out of the 100,000 positions, they probably each paid an average of 1 $320 into the members pocket, and $320 went to be reinvested.

Are these the actual # of matured positions?


I will even go ahead and double this amount, because probably the mature positions have slowed down this last year along with everything else, so maybe instead of 50,000 mature potions last cycle, it might only have a detoriation rate of 25% (as opposed to 50% that I originally suggested).

So...

100,000 - 75,000 - 56,000 - 42,000 - 31,000 - 23,000

About 200%, or 200,000 recycled positions each paying out $320.

Here I'm completely lost,please redescribe the entire scenario with more details.


So, kim has $27million
Claim via website has $3million
Matured 320s paid out $7million

So, rounding off the numbers once again, there was probably $40million that went into the system (that sounds about right). Kim has $27million (this should be accurate based on ymmss own numbers_, and the members have $13million (i personally think this is way too high, but i think its a very generous prediction).

Kim has about 2/3s of all the money that went into the system, the members have 1/3.

I wonder how long it took kim to come up with this plan of how much he wanted from the pot. People may say 22% isnt bad, but that 22% compounded like how he has been doing it ending up taking a 2/3rds majority of the pie. And, what has he shown for it? About $1million in claimed outside incomes that he wont admit where they came from.
I hope I will better understand these lasts lines once You will clear the assumptions above.

Many Thanks

[Dreamer]

Mat_Watcher,

The numbers, equations, and everything is pure speculation on my part, so I dont think that I can provide any clearer information. But I will try.

The curent payout according to YMMSS is $93million. That includes $10 + $20 + $40, not just $40. Before that $93million could happen, kim needs to take his 22%. So, $93million/.78 = $120 million. Now, kim can take his 22% and pay out $93million, so the difference would be the $27million.

The 2% doesnt say the # of affiliates, the total payout, the number of matured positions, or in fact the # of just positions. If 2% of the members have all their positions to claim via website, that doesnt help at all either, because is that 2% own 50% of the positions?

I have chosen to base my 2% just on the total that has been paid out. I think the 2% would be todays figures, and a year ago, when ymmss, I think it would be less than 1% (of whatever). Kim and esto seemed to downplay the 2% suggesting it was very low. But if its 2% of the memberbase that has 50% of the positions, people would figure out quickly that its much higher than 2%. So, i think its 2% of the positions are set to claim via website, but since we dont know how many positions are out there, i have used the $93million as a starting point, and did 2% of that as claimed via website.

The word withdrawn i mean is money that came from ymmss, was put back into the pockets of the members, not to be reinvested. If the money is simply reinvested into the system, ymmss still has the money, not the individual. So, lets say you put $1000 into the system of your money. You cycle once, and let it ride. You withdraw nothing. The next cycle you decide to take out your $1000, and now you are playing with the houses money. But, lets say a month later you put another $1000 back into the system. So, the balance is you've withdrawn nothing.

So, my definition of withdrawel = money taken from ymmss - money given to ymmss.

Oh, oops. Your question was when trying to figure out how many 320 positions both paid $320 and recycled $320. Thats what I meant by withdrawn, instead of just a $320 cycling to become 2 $320s.


Do You mean last cycle paid 35.000 matured positions?

Still just speculation to try to guestamate how many mature positions have been at each cycle. So, basing today having 100,000 mature positions, last cycle having 50,000 mature positions, between last cycle and this cycle, 50,000 positions became mature ($160 - $320), and the 50,000 mature positions paid out and recycled.


Are these the actual # of matured positions?

Yes, if every cycle the actual # of matured positions doubled. But, since we dont have that info, it is speculation on my part. So, 50,000 + 25,000 + 12,500 + ... will never quite equal 100%, if they just doubled.


Here I'm completely lost,please redescribe the entire scenario with more details.

This scenario suggests that there were much more $320 positions when ymmss was stronger, maybe perhaps that people were buying $320s directly, where when the site started to slow down, they were buying $10 - $40 positions. The thought behind it is, does it seem more logical for the number of matured positions in the past 280 grow from 50,000 to 100,000 (as the doubling in the previous thought), or, from 75,000 to 100,000?

I think 75,000 - 100,000 is probably more realistic. So, from one cycle to the next, instead of it doubling (50,000 - 100,000), it is doing like 1.33x (75,000 - 100,000). Of course, there are no concrete numbers to back any of this up, so it is just speculation.

So, today there are 100,000 mature positions (as an example). By next cycle, 98% of those should pay off $320 a piece and recycle $320 (the other 2% will be claimed via website, if that option existed). Last cycle, there were 75,000 mature positions that paid off (using my same example). So between this cycle and last cycle, 25,000 positions became mature. The previous cycle, 56,000 positions were mature and paid off, and before that 42,000 mature positions paid off. This is assuming that ymmss is as strong today as it was 4 cycles ago. So, these numbers are still not accurate. But introducing any other numbers runs into similiar problems, that its all speculation.

Current cycle - last cycle - 2 cycles ago - 3 cycles ago - 4 cycles ago
(100,000) - 75,000 - 56,000 - 42,000 - 31,000 - 23,000

So, while doubling the number of mature positions at each cycle was easier to figure out that about 100% would be paid out, this part was speculation on my part.

***

My assumptions are based on the following:

1. $93million paid out according to ymmss.
2. 22% of all sales goes to kim.
3. 2% of (something unknown) is claimed via website.
4. We have no information on how many mature positions paid out $320 and recycled $320.

Now, as I admited plenty of times, these are all speculative numbers. Do you have any more accurate numbers, or numbers that you think are more reflective of reality? You probably know alot more aobut this than me, so I would be interested if you had any idea of numbers.

[Elvis]

Most of those YMMSS members who made 6 figure incomes (esto) and others were paid by the members who came after them (new members). When oct/nov purchases were supposed to 'double' in 90 days as promised by the website (now withdrawn) weren't cycled, these members have been waiting 3 times the promised 'cycle' and of course these affiliates are going to be seen as let down and people will be disgruntled knowing that the earlier 6 figure income affiliates 'earned from later affiliates went on a spending spree to visit Kim Inman on 2 occasions not disputing the fact that these late members are missing out x 3 of their cycle. So if a 320 epc was purchased say 1st nov how much would that 320 epc be worth if the cycle was still at 90 daysn $2560?, now if someone had 10 x 320 epcs at the same rating what would they be worth? Its not just a small amount owing is it? bearing in mind this is the main reason why members joined for what was written on the website. So those early affiliates are happy, of course they are because they were paid )by the late affiliates) because the money ran out. That is why this forum is open to anyones input,. This YMMSS reminds me of ebizventures.com ...... stargame......easychairclub and a host of others. Starts off with a great plan, months later no more money so advisors and attorneys are called in, then the next business plan is put in place and so on, and as always people who made a lot of money always say ' well you should have read the disclaimer, don't put in what you cannot afford' this is just a cop out. We shall see what happens with this YMMSS. Elvis. has left the forum.

[concerned]

Welcome, and thanks for joining. Good points. I am going to make some observed comments to your post.

Most of those YMMSS members who made 6 figure incomes (esto) and others were paid by the members who came after them (new members).

That is the only test needed to call this site a ponzi.

When oct/nov purchases were supposed to 'double' in 90 days as promised by the website (now withdrawn) weren't cycled, these members have been waiting 3 times the promised 'cycle' and of course these affiliates are going to be seen as let down and people will be disgruntled knowing that the earlier 6 figure income affiliates 'earned from later affiliates went on a spending spree to visit Kim Inman on 2 occasions not disputing the fact that these late members are missing out x 3 of their cycle.

Don't worry, it will get worse. If the system were to theoretically stay open as long as needed, some members will have to wait 1000X what they expected. It ALWAYS happens that way with these schemes.

So if a 320 epc was purchased say 1st nov how much would that 320 epc be worth if the cycle was still at 90 daysn $2560?, now if someone had 10 x 320 epcs at the same rating what would they be worth?

It is good to think about what they SHOULD be worth, but lets also talk about what they are REALLY worth. I imagine that a normal person right now would probably pay about 32 cents for a $320 epc. So in reality, it isn't even worth the amount of a postage stamp.

Its not just a small amount owing is it?

In accounting, this is called assets versus liabilities. When their liabilities are larger than their assets, they are in trouble. Do you think they owe more than they have? OF COURSE! Will they ever get to a point where they will owe less than they own? NEVER!

Starts off with a great plan, months later no more money so advisors and attorneys are called in, then the next business plan is put in place and so on, and as always people who made a lot of money always say ' well you should have read the disclaimer, don't put in what you cannot afford' this is just a cop out. We shall see what happens with this YMMSS. Elvis. has left the forum.

This is where I disagree. They never started with a good plan, because they are using a plan that has never worked in the past. Why would it be good, if it has NEVER worked? That is the fatal flaw, and in reality, the only plan was for the owner and his friends to take your money in the first place.

[Elvis]

Thanks for your thoughts (post) concerned. Just to retract the sentence you disagree with. quote:This is where I disagree. They never started with a good plan. unqote: This was meant to generalise the usual spiel on ponzi websites lol . I didn't mean it to sound like I was saying YMMSS started off with a 'great' plan. 'They' all start off with a great plan to SUCK unknowns in. If you can get my drift. Of course everyone in front got paid and have a 6 figure income, these were the ones who were probably in the 'know'. The others who weren't in the know read the so called testimonials of the early participants and so on, these are the ones who have not been paid for 9 months because the 6 figure income early people have all the money including I might add Kim Inman. Elvis. has left the forum.

[Elvis]

Also check this out http://www.stasite.com/ looks interesting. Elvis. has just left the forum :eek:

[Arzel]

Also check this out http://www.stasite.com looks interesting. Elvis. has just left the forum :eek:

Very interesting, they should probably clean up the site quite a bit though, there are several inconsistancies between pages.

See how many you can find. I didn't even look that hard and I saw several

$180 Million in commissions paid?
25,000 members or 20,000 members?
99% of 20,000 members having completed the survey? Last I heard Mike was expecting 18,000 as an upper goal.
Mike's phone number.

I love the comparison to Google and Yahoo, when they are not a search engine.

All sarcasm aside, I do like the disclaimer that NO guarentee of income is given. YMMSS should have done that in the beginning.

[ycchen]

All sarcasm aside, I do like the disclaimer that NO guarentee of income is given. YMMSS should have done that in the beginning.

If YMMSS had done that, this ponzi won't even take of the ground because no body will join. Therefore, the fake guarentee is crucial in getting the money rolling in the first place.

Nevertheless, YMMSS members should take Kim's words (guarentee) literally. They should ask for refund since Kim has FAILED to guarentee their income.

[Dreamer]

"We're a global people's advertising company. We pay our affiliates to read ads. They turn around and pay our advertisers for their services and products," says Mike Hamilton, STA Global Marketing Director.

Round and around it goes. A Pays B, B buys from C, C pays A, repeat. Where does this lead everybody? Kim rich, members with lots of crap and no money, and bankrupt businesses.

Ok, ok. I'll stick to a point. There is no statistics on how many people actually purchased anything thru ymmss. So, how can he make that claim, unless he is lying. Thats right. he is lying.


Success Through Advertising's Global Retail Advertising Site, destined to become one of the most popular and profitable marketing sites on the Web, will be launched in early September.

Who destines things? Actually, the founders of eBay were afraid it would never be successful. If I claim I'm destined for greatness, i no longer put the hard work involved for greatness. Profitable for whom? for ymmss?

"Because," Hamilton says, "we have an initial core of 20,000 affiliates who will read every ad that we post. They are PAID to read them!

No. They are paid to read ads, not every single ad.

What will attract them?

"Our WEEKLY PAY system. It means our affiliates not only read ads, but have ready online cash to spend.

So long as its not above $1.50. Actually, why will a system attract anybody that hasnt even been tested before it "goes live"?

In addition to launching STA, the company has recently begun to create YM-branded sites which will act as added advertising venues and gateways to the STA Retail Ad Site. These include YMAuctions, YMProducts and YMGolf.

That should show how rinky dink this whole thing is. Those sites suck, and BTW, what exactly do they have to do with advertising?

What is the benefit to the retailers who utilize our system?
Immense. Retailers will find that their advertising dollars stretch in two ways. They will get many more qualified buyers per dollar reading their ads. And they will get a significantly higher ROI because our affiliates are being paid a weekly income to read the ads and they are primed to make purchases if the ads are relevant to their needs. The options for special offers which benefit both retailer and affiliate are almost infinite.

ROI??? SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER???? huh?? I guess if you're used to losing money big time, where even 1 sale would be a good ROI for you. Again, so many promises that they cant keep.

Money Saving Focus Group Services: Focus Groups are the darling of virtually any industry that makes big decisions based on knowledge of consumer preferences. We have almost 20,000 affiliates ready, willing and able to do Focus Group work. We can provide this service with speed and to your demographic specs. You'll get a reliable, copious response. Our Focus Group teams are cost-effective. This is a win-win-win opportunity for YOU-Affiliate-STA/YM.

Did anybody tell the memberbase this yet?

[Salsa]

The new Success Through Advertising website (http://www.stasite.com/) could only drive away the clients that STA/YMMSS is claiming to want.


In addition to launching STA, the company has recently begun to create YM-branded sites which will act as added advertising venues and gateways to the STA Retail Ad Site. These include YMAuctions, YMProducts and YMGolf.That should show how rinky dink this whole thing is. Those sites suck, and BTW, what exactly do they have to do with advertising?This one has to be my favorite. As I recently mentioned in The token crumb--YMAuctions.com (http://matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2680), to the advertising world these sites are nothing but showcases of Success Through Advertising's total, utter and complete ineptitude at advertising a legitimate business. They should terrify any serious advertiser considering a business association with STA.


Money Saving Focus Group Services: Focus Groups are the darling of virtually any industry that makes big decisions based on knowledge of consumer preferences. We have almost 20,000 affiliates ready, willing and able to do Focus Group work. We can provide this service with speed and to your demographic specs. You'll get a reliable, copious response. Our Focus Group teams are cost-effective. This is a win-win-win opportunity for YOU-Affiliate-STA/YM.Did anybody tell the memberbase this yet?I think they are being told now, Dreamer. It appears to me that the new Success Through Advertising site targets the YMMSS affiliate audience, almost exclusively--not to sell (real) advertising to them, but to keep them aboard, encourage them to buy even more EPCs and, perhaps, recruit a few more affiliates by appearing to be doing something toward a brighter future. Where is there anything on the site that might target a serious retail advertiser? It's practically all classic scam hype. Success Through Advertising - NOT!!!

Salsa
_________

[Salsa]

At least the Success Through Advertising LLC question that has come up in a few threads here seems to be officially and definitively answered on the new Success Through Advertising FAQ page (http://stasite.com/faq.html):

YMMSS -- Your Money Machine Success System -- is the payment arm of our parent company Success Through Advertising. Success Through Advertising is a Belize Limited Liability Corporation (LLC) whose purpose is to create a global online advertising business that serves the needs of affiliates willing to read advertising for 30 minutes weekly in exchange for a weekly income.The only problem with that, however, is that I've found no trace that Belize registers such entities as "Limited Liability Corporation[s]." At least they're not in the IBC codes. Anybody?

Now look at this part, again, with a different purpose:

Success Through Advertising is a Belize Limited Liability Corporation (LLC) whose purpose is to create a global online advertising business that serves the needs of affiliates willing to read advertising for 30 minutes weekly in exchange for a weekly income.What about the purpose of serving the needs of advertisers?! This is just a coincidental example of why I said, in my previous post, that the target audience of the new Success Through Advertising site appears to be YMMSS affiliates, not advertisers.

Salsa
_______

[Mat_Watcher]

Mat_Watcher,

The numbers, equations, and everything is pure speculation on my part, so I dont think that I can provide any clearer information. But I will try.

The curent payout according to YMMSS is $93million. That includes $10 + $20 + $40, not just $40. Before that $93million could happen, kim needs to take his 22%. So, $93million/.78 = $120 million. Now, kim can take his 22% and pay out $93million, so the difference would be the $27million.

Commissions payouts stats refer to the total money went through transactions along the cycling process.
The dynamic of process keep funding itself cycling unmatured positions that raise 100% of amount needed the payouts stats,but that lower only 25% of the cash.
$10 > $20 = -$5 from funds , + $20 to payouts stats.
So $93,000,000 absolutely don't means $127,000,000 went in,but a lower amount.


The 2% doesnt say the # of affiliates, the total payout, the number of matured positions, or in fact the # of just positions. If 2% of the members have all their positions to claim via website, that doesnt help at all either, because is that 2% own 50% of the positions?

I have chosen to base my 2% just on the total that has been paid out. I think the 2% would be todays figures, and a year ago, when ymmss, I think it would be less than 1% (of whatever). Kim and esto seemed to downplay the 2% suggesting it was very low. But if its 2% of the memberbase that has 50% of the positions, people would figure out quickly that its much higher than 2%. So, i think its 2% of the positions are set to claim via website, but since we dont know how many positions are out there, i have used the $93million as a starting point, and did 2% of that as claimed via website.

The 2% was referred to the total matured positions,as result the total claimed from people is considerily lower than $3,000,000


The word withdrawn i mean is money that came from ymmss, was put back into the pockets of the members, not to be reinvested. If the money is simply reinvested into the system, ymmss still has the money, not the individual. So, lets say you put $1000 into the system of your money. You cycle once, and let it ride. You withdraw nothing. The next cycle you decide to take out your $1000, and now you are playing with the houses money. But, lets say a month later you put another $1000 back into the system. So, the balance is you've withdrawn nothing.

So, my definition of withdrawel = money taken from ymmss - money given to ymmss.

Oh, oops. Your question was when trying to figure out how many 320 positions both paid $320 and recycled $320. Thats what I meant by withdrawn, instead of just a $320 cycling to become 2 $320s.

in the end how many matured positions are setted to recurring $320 ($320 to member,$320 repurchase)?


Still just speculation to try to guestamate how many mature positions have been at each cycle. So, basing today having 100,000 mature positions, last cycle having 50,000 mature positions, between last cycle and this cycle, 50,000 positions became mature ($160 - $320), and the 50,000 mature positions paid out and recycled.


Yes, if every cycle the actual # of matured positions doubled. But, since we dont have that info, it is speculation on my part. So, 50,000 + 25,000 + 12,500 + ... will never quite equal 100%, if they just doubled.


This scenario suggests that there were much more $320 positions when ymmss was stronger, maybe perhaps that people were buying $320s directly, where when the site started to slow down, they were buying $10 - $40 positions. The thought behind it is, does it seem more logical for the number of matured positions in the past 280 grow from 50,000 to 100,000 (as the doubling in the previous thought), or, from 75,000 to 100,000?

I think 75,000 - 100,000 is probably more realistic. So, from one cycle to the next, instead of it doubling (50,000 - 100,000), it is doing like 1.33x (75,000 - 100,000). Of course, there are no concrete numbers to back any of this up, so it is just speculation.

So, today there are 100,000 mature positions (as an example). By next cycle, 98% of those should pay off $320 a piece and recycle $320 (the other 2% will be claimed via website, if that option existed). Last cycle, there were 75,000 mature positions that paid off (using my same example). So between this cycle and last cycle, 25,000 positions became mature. The previous cycle, 56,000 positions were mature and paid off, and before that 42,000 mature positions paid off. This is assuming that ymmss is as strong today as it was 4 cycles ago. So, these numbers are still not accurate. But introducing any other numbers runs into similiar problems, that its all speculation.

Current cycle - last cycle - 2 cycles ago - 3 cycles ago - 4 cycles ago
(100,000) - 75,000 - 56,000 - 42,000 - 31,000 - 23,000

So, while doubling the number of mature positions at each cycle was easier to figure out that about 100% would be paid out, this part was speculation on my part.

The growth of matured positions was higher than 100.000.We have much more .


***

My assumptions are based on the following:

1. $93million paid out according to ymmss.
2. 22% of all sales goes to kim.
3. 2% of (something unknown) is claimed via website.
4. We have no information on how many mature positions paid out $320 and recycled $320.

These factors are all corrects,but without considering the whole process of the money went in,brings very far from reality


Now, as I admited plenty of times, these are all speculative numbers. Do you have any more accurate numbers, or numbers that you think are more reflective of reality? You probably know alot more aobut this than me, so I would be interested if you had any idea of numbers.
More than numbers,is the method used that is pretty inaccurate.

I do not feel comfortable to place numbers ,as they way I got them maybe more inaccurate than Yours.
My own maths is based on % taken out from averages of all the variables:
positions in the system,
positions cycled,
% of positions x level,
Cycling process costs.
Surely these numbers are not 100% accurate,but based on 18 months that generated the $93,000,000,should are more realistic.


As result the 1/5 of the money went to admin,1/5 for outside sources and 3/5 for members as $320 payments and 3% referral fees.

Many Thanks

[gypsy]

You know.....ive been reading lots about internet incomes etc and trying to work out just how to make an income from the net.....and i came to one conclusion

you either join a scheme/ business / whatever, like ymmss....put your money in....work the business and hopefully end up with some money at the end of it......or

you spend your time putting such schemes down...spend....countless hours and i mean countless hours posting negativity and comments like ...its a scam etc and come away with not a cent.


SO.....i have just one question to pose here.......and its directed to those of you who waste time earning nothing

DO YOU KNOW OF ANY INTERNET INCOME PRODUCING SCHEMES THAT I CAN JOIN THAT ARE LEGITIMATE?????

There has to be some out there somewhere....and i definatley dont want to sell goods on ebay.....
come on you lot....help me out will ya ....you say you want to help people who have been scamed.....then help me....stop me from loosing my money.....point me in the right direction...


smile


Gypsy

[mercinary]

I think you are missing something here. The two options you have claimed are:

#1: Join an internet money-making scheme
#2: Not join one, and fight against one.

I think you have your options a little too narrow. This is how they should look:

#1: Join an internet money-making scheme
#2: No join one, and invest elsewhere.

There may be legitimate money making opportunities on the web, but for every one of those legit ones, there are probably 25 scams. The real money is in non-internet-based investments. Do you want to make a load of cash? Invest in real-estate. If that is too much to handle, start with high return mutual funds (assuming you have the money to play with). I'm no investment expert, but I can tell you that these types of investments will make you rich far quicker than surfing the internet for legitimate get-rich-quick deals.

-Merc

P.S. Fighting against one has nothing to do with investments.

[surfer]

SO.....i have just one question to pose here.......and its directed to those of you who waste time earning nothing

DO YOU KNOW OF ANY INTERNET INCOME PRODUCING SCHEMES THAT I CAN JOIN THAT ARE LEGITIMATE?????

There has to be some out there somewhere....and i definatley dont want to sell goods on ebay.....
come on you lot....help me out will ya ....you say you want to help people who have been scamed.....then help me....stop me from loosing my money.....point me in the right direction...


smile


Gypsy
Let me know when you decide to direct a question at
those of us who do make money online via legitimate
methods. ;)

Hint #1: looking at "income producing schemes" is your
first problem.

I produce my own income through sales and marketing,
both online and offline.

Hint #2: You'll never find a long term winner by handing
over your hard earned money to liars and thieves that
say they will generate a full time income for you if you
read ads for 30 minutes/week.

It doesn't sound like you're interested in putting in the
effort to run a real business. Sounds like you'd rather
give your money to people like Kim Inman and hope they
will do all the work for you.

Maybe you should stick with investments like the ones
mercinary mentioned.

If you received the emails and PMs that I do that show
how "businesses" such as YMMSS divide and destroy
families, perhaps you would understand why I take the
time to be active here and run a real business.

[concerned]

You know.....ive been reading lots about internet incomes etc and trying to work out just how to make an income from the net.....and i came to one conclusion

you either join a scheme/ business / whatever, like ymmss....put your money in....work the business and hopefully end up with some money at the end of it......or

you spend your time putting such schemes down...spend....countless hours and i mean countless hours posting negativity and comments like ...its a scam etc and come away with not a cent.


Actually, isn't that 2 conclusions?

SO.....i have just one question to pose here.......and its directed to those of you who waste time earning nothing

Who said I didn't earn anything? I am earning dignity. I also have a job. Those are nice to have to make money.

DO YOU KNOW OF ANY INTERNET INCOME PRODUCING SCHEMES THAT I CAN JOIN THAT ARE LEGITIMATE?????

There has to be some out there somewhere....and i definatley dont want to sell goods on ebay.....

There are lots of ways to earn income on the internet. Look at Google, Amazon, etc. All you have to do is provide a legitimate product or service. Also, if you want to invest, have you heard of the stock market? If so, Charles Schwab has a site. Then there is etrade, and many other LEGITIMATE online places to invest.

come on you lot....help me out will ya ....you say you want to help people who have been scamed.....then help me....stop me from loosing my money.....point me in the right direction...

You have been pointed in the right direction. If you chose not to do anything, then it is now your own fault.

[gypsy]

Thankyou for your responses

thats probably some of the most intelligent stuff ive read on these sites for ages

but im beginning to think i should just stick to my day job and be done with it

i was just looking for some way to suppliment my hard earned superannuation.....oh well looks like ill just have to be another poor retiree....

1. im no sales person......couldnt sell food to a starving ethiopian....lol

2. dont even own my own house so investment property is out

3. stock market.....lol....ide loose all my money.....thats just like gambling and im not a gambler


maybe ill stick to buying lotto tickets and hope one day my numbers come up....im even willing to share with others if that what it takes....smile

anyway enuff crap from me.....i just thought maybe, just maybe...there was some future on the net for income....guess i was wrong

have a good day all

bye

gypsy

[surfer]

There is certainly nothing wrong with having a
job. :)

But just like being self-employed, you need to
make the most of it.

1. im no sales person......couldnt sell food to a starving ethiopian....
That's a typical statement from someone who
doesn't understand what selling really is.

As much of a cliche as it is, we are all in sales.
Even if your job doesn't involve selling, you had
to sell yourself and your skills to get the job in
the first place.

The guy who fixes our appliances had to sell me.

Real selling is all about relationships and trust. It
has nothing to do with the stereotypical salesman. :)

I've been fired from more than one sales job because
I'm not that type of aggressive hammering salesman,
but my average(maybe less than average) sales skills
serve me just fine as an independent because of my
genuine concern for what's truly best for my customers. ;)

2. dont even own my own house so investment property is out
One of my friends and his wife bought their first duplex
while renting their own home. They moved in to one
half of the duplex, rented out the other and had it payed
off within five years.

Then they bought their own home, rented out both sides
of the duplex and paid their house off in 7 years.

They made decent money in their jobs, but used smart
money management to set and reach their goals.

The 25 year old son of my wife's boss recently closed
on his first rental property. He still lives at home and
doesn't make great money.

3. stock market.........ide loose all my money.....thats just like gambling and im not a gambler
I'm not a big stock market fan either. :) It is a proven
long term winner, though.


IMO, we all have the ability to make our lives better.
Some of us have more to overcome than others to
get there, but the opportunities are plentiful.

You don't have to be an entrepreneur to make a good
life for yourself.

You just need to have the right goals and develop the
right attitude and plans to achieve them. Then you
need to put those plans to work.

Good luck gypsy.

[/sermon] ;)