Australia advises against "PIPS"

[jokach]

Yet another country's watchdogs come forward to advise that "People in Profit System" is not a sound investment .. they'are also looking for information on the scheme ..

reposted from:
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=60206


Australia's corporate watchdog has urged Australians who have invested money in a Malaysian-based wealth creation scheme called "People in Profit System" (PIPS) to come forward with information about the scheme.

The Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) said Malaysia's central bank was investigating the scheme, which was being actively promoted in Australia but appeared to operate out of Malaysia.

"ASIC is keen to hear from any Australians who have put money into PIPS or can provide any other information," ASIC executive director, consumer protection, Greg Tanzer said.

"Until we have the evidence to bring before a court, we can only repeat our warning that PIPS just doesn't pass the smell tests for sound investing."

ASIC urged investors to deal only with businesses that held an Australian financial services licence, which would provide them with more protection if anything went wrong.

Mr Tanzer said schemes like PIPS were a surefire way to lose money as "profits" were simply paid from the money contributed by those who join the scheme later on.

ASIC said PIPS was promoted over the internet and via face-to-face meetings.

Participants had to pay $450 or more to PIPS as a loan for 180 trading days. The loan is supposedly repaid with interest fixed at two per cent per trading day.

At that rate, a participant putting in $1,000 would have $21.6 million in two years.

PIPS says returns for the first 50-53 days constitute repayment of the initial loan and cannot be withdrawn. Subsequent returns can be either withdrawn or reinvested. Members are also required to pay a monthly fee.



The shocking statement I got from this article was the line "a participant putting in $1,000 would have $21.6 million in two years." Just imagine if that was really true ..... :eek:

jokach

[sisco50]

LOL Quite funny and shocking. Seems to me if they used the same math for a third year they could about own the whole earth. Unfortunately, doing the math when you don't know how the program is supposed to work will not give any kind of realistic figures. It is strange that I have seen about 25 different figures touted for the same two year timeframe. Which of those 25 figures is correct? None. :(

PIPS is pretty much dead in the water at this stage and there should be no issue regarding the scam vs. no scam discussion. However, there is always an issue with misinformation being passed off as fact! This happens because people do not understand the structure of a program and do the math based on what they think and not what they know. This then becomes pure speculation and misinformation that is passed off as fact. :(

[Arzel]

LOL Quite funny and shocking. Seems to me if they used the same math for a third year they could about own the whole earth. Unfortunately, doing the math when you don't know how the program is supposed to work will not give any kind of realistic figures. It is strange that I have seen about 25 different figures touted for the same two year timeframe. Which of those 25 figures is correct? None. :(

PIPS is pretty much dead in the water at this stage and there should be no issue regarding the scam vs. no scam discussion. However, there is always an issue with misinformation being passed off as fact! This happens because people do not understand the structure of a program and do the math based on what they think and not what they know. This then becomes pure speculation and misinformation that is passed off as fact. :(

Just what are you saying? That PIPS is a scam, but the scammy numbers are wrong? Or that PIPS is not a scam, but simply a good program gone wrong? If you are such a genius on the subject why don't you provide the "correct" numbers for this ponzi.

[sisco50]

Just what are you saying? That PIPS is a scam, but the scammy numbers are wrong? Or that PIPS is not a scam, but simply a good program gone wrong? If you are such a genius on the subject why don't you provide the "correct" numbers for this ponzi.

Never said anything about being a genius on any subject. My only point is in regards to spreading personal speculation as fact when it is not fact at all. Some of you folks think it is ok to do that and I disagree. It is wrong to spread misinformation. That is all I am saying.

[MooMoo]

Perhaps it might be an idea when quoting numbers and facts to include a reference to where this information was obtained. That way, everyone can follow the train of thought, and can see how the statistics are created.

It would also help to create and foster the trust within this community.

[jokach]

The number that I referenced in the first post came from the article author, and i'm not sure how it was calculated. It does seem out of line a bit, which I why I referred to it later on in the post with an "eek", because it sounds quite a bit odd.... I'll email the article author and see if he responds and can quantify the statement that he made (no guarantees that he'll respond though ...)

jokach

[concerned]

It is strange that I have seen about 25 different figures touted for the same two year timeframe. Which of those 25 figures is correct?

Why don't you post all 25 figures, and we will tell you which one is right.

[sisco50]

Why don't you post all 25 figures, and we will tell you which one is right.

LOL Yeah You'll know which one is right! :) I can tell by your flippant attitude that you have all the right answers. :)

[ycchen]

Never said anything about being a genius on any subject. My only point is in regards to spreading personal speculation as fact when it is not fact at all. Some of you folks think it is ok to do that and I disagree. It is wrong to spread misinformation. That is all I am saying.The best way to be always correct is to say absolute NOTHING. Way to go sisco50! lol lol I sometime wonder if we are talking to a robot. Anything against PIPS will triger a robotic reaction: misinformation, misinformation, misinformation ... misinformation ... lol

When people challenge you, how do you know that the article is about spreading misinformation? The only logical conclusion is that you HAVE the right information, right? Why don't you show it to us?

Typical robotic answer: misinformation, misinformation, misinformation... lol lol

Hmmm... let me find another article about PIPS, just to give you a chance to exercise your robotic response .... lol

[sisco50]

The best way to be always correct is to say absolute NOTHING. Way to go sisco50! lol lol I sometime wonder if we are talking to a robot. Anything against PIPS will triger a robotic reaction: misinformation, misinformation, misinformation ... misinformation ... lol

When people challenge you, how do you know that the article is about spreading misinformation? The only logical conclusion is that you HAVE the right information, right? Why don't you show it to us?

Typical robotic answer: misinformation, misinformation, misinformation... lol lol

Hmmm... let me find another article about PIPS, just to give you a chance to exercise your robotic response .... lol

ycchen

You have shown me enough the past 14 or 15 months that proves to me that you are the master of misinformation. I will not feed you any information that you can twist into something other than what it is. What I know I will keep to myself in the future and what you think you know you will spread as fact to people that don't know any better. So...go back to your cut and paste from all over the net and enjoy. :)

[ycchen]

ycchen

You have shown me enough the past 14 or 15 months that proves to me that you are the master of misinformation. I will not feed you any information that you can twist into something other than what it is. What I know I will keep to myself in the future and what you think you know you will spread as fact to people that don't know any better. So...go back to your cut and paste from all over the net and enjoy. :)

misinformation...misinformation ;)

[concerned]

LOL Yeah You'll know which one is right! :) I can tell by your flippant attitude that you have all the right answers. :)

My hunch after reading this post is that you really haven't heard 25 other figures. Otherwise, you would have posted them. And you are talking about misinformation? Isn't it misinformation to say you heard 25 figures, yet you can't provide them?

[sisco50]

My hunch after reading this post is that you really haven't heard 25 other figures. Otherwise, you would have posted them. And you are talking about misinformation? Isn't it misinformation to say you heard 25 figures, yet you can't provide them?

Good try but you are wrong. Why would I post all those figures here or anywhere else? They can't possibly be right. At best 24 of them would have to be wrong and in this case all of them are wrong. I would be guilty of doing the very thing that I am against. (the spreading of misinformation)

Your hunch is actually further offbase than you know. I was conservative in my "25 other figures". What's really funny is that the so called "experts" who put forth these figures come up with something different each time they post about the subject. It's almost like pulling numbers out of thin air. It's quite the joke even with those that agree about the particular scam but do not agree about the numbers. Bashers bashing each other. Comical. Where is the credibility in this information when the bashers do not agree amongst themselves? :)

[sisco50]

misinformation...misinformation ;)

I knew there was a reason why I need to ignore your replies. lol Do you want to stick your tongue out also? That would be about par. Have a nice day doing what you do best. :)

[Arzel]

Good try but you are wrong. Why would I post all those figures here or anywhere else? They can't possibly be right. At best 24 of them would have to be wrong and in this case all of them are wrong. I would be guilty of doing the very thing that I am against. (the spreading of misinformation)

Your hunch is actually further offbase than you know. I was conservative in my "25 other figures". What's really funny is that the so called "experts" who put forth these figures come up with something different each time they post about the subject. It's almost like pulling numbers out of thin air. It's quite the joke even with those that agree about the particular scam but do not agree about the numbers. Bashers bashing each other. Comical. Where is the credibility in this information when the bashers do not agree amongst themselves? :)

Actually, they could all be correct..at least in a statistical point of view. Since you are dealing with estimates, they could all in theory fall within estimated distribution for the actual amount. If you would provide your information it would be quite easy to determine which estimates are based off some valid information, and those which are clearly not viable estimates.

Your unwillingness to provide information is not logical, unless your primary function at MW is to discredit our work. If you really were against scams there would be no reason to not add your analysis of PIPS. As it is, you serve no purpose, but to change the focus of the discussion.

Why not try to be usefull for once.

[sisco50]

Actually, they could all be correct..at least in a statistical point of view. Since you are dealing with estimates, they could all in theory fall within estimated distribution for the actual amount. If you would provide your information it would be quite easy to determine which estimates are based off some valid information, and those which are clearly not viable estimates.

Your unwillingness to provide information is not logical, unless your primary function at MW is to discredit our work. If you really were against scams there would be no reason to not add your analysis of PIPS. As it is, you serve no purpose, but to change the focus of the discussion.

Why not try to be usefull for once.

LOL So...if I don't think the way you do, I am not useful and I serve no purpose. Thank you very much. :) This makes me want to share everything I may know about every subject you are interested in at this site? I rather doubt it. All I see in your post is just another egghead "wannabe" talking down to posters at this site. That is the attitude that keeps this site from being all it can be. Have a good day. :)

[Arzel]

LOL So...if I don't think the way you do, I am not useful and I serve no purpose. Thank you very much. :) This makes me want to share everything I may know about every subject you are interested in at this site? I rather doubt it. All I see in your post is just another egghead "wannabe" talking down to posters at this site. That is the attitude that keeps this site from being all it can be. Have a good day. :)

Thanks for verifying my point.

[sisco50]

Thanks for verifying my point.

You are quite welcome, and many thanks for sharing your attitude with us once again. :) Some day when you outgrow the need for that "smart-***" attitude you can join the rest of the human race. :)

[MooMoo]

I am quite disturbed by the amount of backbiting and general bitchiness amongst this forum. Any chance of getting back to the actual topic here, of PIP's within Australia??!

As I see it, although there has been a general alert in Australia, it has not actually been deemed illegal. It appears to simply be an alert to the fact that they are not regulated in Australia. Would this be a correct assumption?

[sisco50]

I am quite disturbed by the amount of backbiting and general bitchiness amongst this forum. Any chance of getting back to the actual topic here, of PIP's within Australia??!

As I see it, although there has been a general alert in Australia, it has not actually been deemed illegal. It appears to simply be an alert to the fact that they are not regulated in Australia. Would this be a correct assumption?

Yes, that is correct.

Sorry if you are offended by the general bitchiness of this forum. It's normally not this bad. :(

[Arzel]

Yes, once you gain approval from sisco50 your comments will be deemed worthy of discussion. Unfortunately this is only possible by making non-sensical triades regarding the misuse of, or mis-interpretation of information.

Please sisco50, please inform me when you feel that I have reached the higher plane of discussion, as you so obviously feel only you have currently attained.

As to PIPS, what difference would it make if your conclusion is that PIPS has not been currently deemed illegal in Australia when the general concensus is that it is an illegal enterprise. It appears only logical to deduce that the current course of action will result in PIPS being deamed illegal everywhere eventually.

[sisco50]

Yes, once you gain approval from sisco50 your comments will be deemed worthy of discussion. Unfortunately this is only possible by making non-sensical triades regarding the misuse of, or mis-interpretation of information.

Please sisco50, please inform me when you feel that I have reached the higher plane of discussion, as you so obviously feel only you have currently attained.

As to PIPS, what difference would it make if your conclusion is that PIPS has not been currently deemed illegal in Australia when the general concensus is that it is an illegal enterprise. It appears only logical to deduce that the current course of action will result in PIPS being deamed illegal everywhere eventually.

You are correct. It is logical to deduce that PIPS will be deemed illegal everywhere eventually. But at the moment it is being investigated by the BoN in Malaysia and not by Australia. Australia has issued a warning to it's population to make them aware that they could lose all monies spent with PIPS. This is good. But at this point, that is all it is.

In the future I will refrain from commenting on your attitude as that is not why I am here. If you insist on talking down to me, I will simply ignore you. Many thanks for taking the time to reply. :)

[MooMoo]

As to PIPS, what difference would it make if your conclusion is that PIPS has not been currently deemed illegal in Australia when the general concensus is that it is an illegal enterprise. It appears only logical to deduce that the current course of action will result in PIPS being deamed illegal everywhere eventually.
I merely wished to point out that at present it is not deemed illegal in Australia. As mentioned in a previous post, I like to see information as relevant in the PRESENT and not the future. I agree that it will most probably be deemed illegal all around the world soon, but you cannot state that it IS illegal in countries where it actually at present isnt. We do not know for certain what action may or maynot be taken by different governments around the world, and we shouldnt assume that we can forsee the future as such - unless stated clearly that it is an OPINION.

I know its a small point, but in this day and age it is an important one.

[sisco50]

I merely wished to point out that at present it is not deemed illegal in Australia. As mentioned in a previous post, I like to see information as relevant in the PRESENT and not the future. I agree that it will most probably be deemed illegal all around the world soon, but you cannot state that it IS illegal in countries where it actually at present isnt. We do not know for certain what action may or maynot be taken by different governments around the world, and we shouldnt assume that we can forsee the future as such - unless stated clearly that it is an OPINION.

I know its a small point, but in this day and age it is an important one.

Yes, sometimes the smallest of points are the most important. I have brought this up many times in the past and have been jumped on for it. Oh well. Maybe I should go back to TG where I know in advance that everything said there is speculation and opinion. :) That whole scenario is a war zone with nothing but bashing of people and profanity. :( You know it's bad when the primary PIPS basher, Incognitus, left the site for good after posting these same reasons for leaving. He used the term "fed up with this site" in his departing post a few weeks ago.

[maouse]

I merely wished to point out that at present it is not deemed illegal in Australia.

I know its a small point, but in this day and age it is an important one.
Whether it is "deemed illegal" is only a matter of time, which does not effect the reality of the scam in the slightest.

-Marcel

[mercinary]

Whether it is "deemed illegal" is only a matter of time, which does not effect the reality of the scam in the slightest.

-Marcel

Amen to that brother! The argument you put forth is what has been a driving factor here at Matrixwatch since day 1. Internet scams do not get enough attention, and therefore are rarely prosecuted! This does not take away from the fact that thousands of people are ripped off by these scams on a daily basis!!!

-Merc

[Ribpegrom]

Great information