Matrix321.com is not in it for the e-books

[MatrixWatch]

A while back we were debating whether or not the matrix sites were more about promoting their matrix lists than their e-books. This is what the various lawsuits out there allege, and it is what various other people on this forum think as well.

Why are there not pictures of people in the Testimonials section waving a disk in the air, and praising the matrix site saying, "I finally downloaded my e-books!!!".

Why are there not big pictures of the e-books in the places where Plasma TV's and Game Cubes stand?

Why is it that the promotional program is promoted so much more than the e-books, yet these sites claim to be "e-book distributors" on their pay-company and business-license applications (if they have one)?

It is because these sites are running a pyramid scheme, with a fig-leaf e-book to cover it up.. That's why. Take this example from the "tips and tricks" page of Matrix321.com:


When you make your offer, don't just make a single offer to the desired matrix. Make 2,3, even 4 offers to a single item. By making this, it is very probable that the total spent still is a lot lower than the item's retail price, plus you will be helping yourself to get your items faster (every subsequent offer will help previous offers matrices to get filled).

So, the incentive of buying into these matrix lists is to receive the promotional item. They flat out admit it. They even say that it will help them get it "faster".

I was pretty amazed that they admit it like that, so I decided to dig a little deeper. I found a few extra things on their FAQ page that will interest a few of you. When addressing the legality of their program, they say:


Q: Is this a Pyramid Scheme?
A: Definitely not. In a "pyramid scheme", you make a cash payment only for a chance of being added to the pyramid (which is illegal).

Wait a second? This is more a definition of an illegal lottery than a pyramid scheme. They even get it wrong. In a pyramid scheme, you never pay for a "chance" of being included in a pyramid. You just pay for the spot and you get it, not the "chance" to get it. The whole spin that the matrix sites put on this law is that they offer a "product" for sale and the "spot on the matrix" is free. Matrix sites also boast that because the list is set up in a "straight line" instead of a "pyramid" they are somehow exempt from the laws concerning these marketing programs. And this is exactly what Matrix321 does.


Pyramids usually grow downward, as well as sideways, and you will move up only by bringing more people under yourself into the pyramid. The prize usually is some cash, and probably only the few at the top will get it (usually the same "scammers" who started the pyramid in first place).

Isn't this the same thing that a matrix site does? So, let me ask the matrix321 owners this. Are pyramid laws set up because because they move "downward as well as sideways" and offer cash prizes (which matrix321 offers as well), OR are they illegal because they only reward a few at the expense of the others at the bottom of the list? C'mon guys.. How does matrix321 get around this one? Here is their explanation:


Our system, however, is a straight-line matrix (never grows sideways, only downward, which makes it a lot easier to fill up). When you make your offer you're not paying for a chance of being part of the matrix, but for some instructional reports or e-books, and being part of the matrix is free (which makes it legal).

We have already seen that Matrix321 encourages people to get involved with their matrix lists solely for the goal of getting promotional items, not e-books. They also claim right here that their program is "legal". Well, I have news for you.. If you are requiring that people purchase those e-books in order to enter the matrix lists, then the laws of most states call that an "illegal lottery", which can get both the site owner and the pay company in a lot of legal trouble.

I will conclude with a statement from their site that I thought was just plain rich.


Most of our prizes are not cash, but consumer electronics. And everybody has the same chance to get their free items, how fast you get them depends solely on how early you signed up

The same "chance", huh? But then it depends on how early you sign up, because... ??? If you had the same chance then it would not matter how early or late you signed up. And if it takes longer for a person lower on the list to get their item then people WILL NOT to want to buy spots on a long list... Yet, if the list is not very long, then people WILL want to buy spots. So, the chances ARE different if you are futher down on the list. They say the chances are the same because they know that to admit unequal chances to later investors would classify them as a pyramid scheme.

[MatrixWatch]

And who else does this?


How about www.GotMatrix.com

Is this legal?

This program is absolutely and completely legal. You are not purchasing yourself into the matrix, you are buying a package of eBooks that has information that we have researched for you on the web. As our incentive we are placing you into the matrix for no charge, so you can get your FREE product. This is our Gift to you!

www.UrMatrix.com
Is this legal?

Yes, my site is extremely legal as I am a well establish screensaver business. In addition to being a great business, I have created the tracking list system which allows me to give away great money and electronic gifts! I want to point out that we are selling you a great product which you will receive. Since we are selling you a product (our screensavers), there is nothing illegal about it. The tracking list entry is our free gift to you when you purchase our screensavers.


www.MoveMeUp.com
What is a membership kit?

A membership kit is a tangible item that will be mailed to your home. Each kit will be dependent upon the selections that you make. They will include a newsletter that will tell what we see as the newest, hottest electronics out at the present. It will also include CD software that you will select from a list provided. This ensures that you will not have to receive the same software everytime you purchase a kit. There are different categories based upon the selection that you make. It may also contain promotional items such as pens, t-shirts, and the higher bracket kits will include a hand-crafted item that will be unique within itself. The hand-crafted item may vary. A membership kit will also allow you to have your name placed on a free product giveaway list.


www.TheiMatrix.com
Is iMatrix a legal business?

Yes, we are selling eBusiness kits to our customers. We offer the customer a slot in the matrix they select as a bonus. The matrix is a linear scheme in which a customer cycles thru a list until they reach the top and get their reward. There are no pyramid or MLM's involved in our site.

[hello]

Excellent information WatchDog.

The bottom line is that a matrix site is a Scam...sure the people at the top of the list will get their "free gift" but the other people will never see anything, no "free gift" for them, only a worthless eBook, and worthless is the key word, as all the eBooks I have ever bought through a Matrix site I have been able to find for FREE over the Internet.

[FightingBack]

Watch Dog I would have to agree on some of this. Although the community is stil unsure about legal issues depending on how this whole ezexpo law suite lands. It seems as if matrix321 changed their info since it's different now when I tried picking up these quotes. When our site is back up we are dedicated to bring both sides of the story just like we said. We are going to post this news.


We feel that every story has two sides of it. Visit us at matrixwatchsucks.com (when were backup) to read what's really going on.

[MatrixWatch]

Well I'll be darned... I just went to the Matrix321 website and checked out the place where it said how people need to make 2, 3, or 4 offers. NOW, it says:


When making an offer on our site, you are buying into our eBooks. eBooks are books that you actually download and they have information in them. Upon the purchase of these ebooks you are placed into the matrix line of your choice. Not every customer will cycle to receive their free promotional item. You are just simply buying the ebooks. The more offers you make the close you are pushing yourself and others to the top.

But of course they were not lacking in short-sightedness, for they still left the next paragraph:


If you are cycling (at the top of the matrix) and notice that there are just a couple spaces for your matrix to fill up, don't wait anymore, make those offers yourself! That way you won't have to wait anymore. Plus, as stated before, even with those additional payments it is very probable that you are paying a lot less than the item retail price, plus you will receive more items later for your additional offers.



They changed what they had listed on their site because we posted this thread. Now, what I would have rather have them do is SHUT THEIR SITE DOWN. If they think that by changing this information they will somehow not be legally liable for misinforming their previous customers then they are way out in left field.

[MatrixWatch]

Not too much to my surprize, Matrix321 has once again altered their website because of what we have been discussing here. On their "How it works" page, they have taken a turn for the worse. Now, they have come up with a story to illustrate how the matrix system works, but in doing so they undermine the very thing they need to keep them from being labeled a pyramid scam. This story illustrates why people get into matrices for the promotional item, not the ebooks. I will check again tomorrow and see if you will change your site again. You guys should really just close down and refund everyone's money back.


I will give you an example so you can see everything from a more concise perspective: Let's say you want to buy an item (to give you a general example: a shirt). You go to the clothing store and find the perfect shirt, with a price tag of $50. Once you are getting ready to pay, you may ask the store clerk for a discount, which probably you will never get or maybe they give you an extremely low discount just to make you "happy" (this happens to everybody, right?). Now, what do you think could happen if you buy 10 shirts instead of just one? That would be a $500 sale, which gives more room for a deeper discount. And what if you buy 20 shirts? Probably the store owner would come by making jokes and calling you "my dear friend". And what if you buy 100 shirts? By now you would be sitting at the store owner's office drinking some coffee, listening to him talking about his daughter and if you would like to date her (plus the fact that you will end up paying about $10-$15 for each shirt).



I know, by now you should be thinking: "But I don't need 100 shirts, I just need one. Plus I don't have the money to buy them all anyway". Relax, now is when this starts getting better... Let's say that you stay in front of the clothing store for a couple hours, and you say to everybody who gets by "Hey, look how pretty this shirt is, and if we both buy one we will get it a lot cheaper". Probably you would have your 10 interested people in no time, plus a nice discount for each of you. You could also take a day and distribute some advertising all over the shopping center, this will probably get you at least 20 people interested in buying the shirt (with an even better discount). Or you could be more aggressive, calling all your relatives, friends, general public, etc. until you get 100 people interested in buying that shirt. If so, you would have your "almost free" shirt, your coffee, and your date with the store owner's daughter at the palm of your hand. And to start a new idea... What if you would say to the 100 guys to share this opportunity with their own friends and relatives? The amount of people would have doubled, without doubling your effort (always keep that in mind, that is one of the beauties of this system), and its price would be a small fraction of the original price. Also notice that not only you benefit from all this, but also the store owner (200 shirts... probably that's more than what he sells in a whole month!!!).

This may not be the best example, but I'm positive that it served for giving you a general idea about how this sales system works. The system is based on this general idea, where several people get together in order to buy a specific item, thus obtaining deep discounts due to mass buying; while the seller benefits from buying in great quantities (making their relationship as a partner to partner relationship, with everybody helping each other). This system was designed under the name of Hot New Matrix System.

[Arzel]

What is really scarey is that some people will look at that example and think to themselves "This is a GREAT idea!". The owner of Matrix321 obviously has no business experience, and a very poor grasp of the economics behind running a business.

[hello]

A judge in a court of law will throw out this example in a matter of minutes.

[m321]

WatchDog I must say you do bring up some good points. I don't know why you are just talking about my site; there are many more sites out there worse than mine. We even offer refunds for up to 15 days after your payment if you’re unhappy.

Yes Arzel you are correct. We have little business experience. With this whole law suite going on we are curious to see what will happen. If watchdog wins you can bet we will close and refund customers. When we first started we had no intention of all this happening.

But watchdog I really wish you would go after the worse site first. I know there are sites that take your money and run. Watchdog has good points and when first typing those areas up it was like "Oh okay were done writing them forever." Looks like I was wrong, and forgot about what they truly say. For any customer that would like a refund because of the change, they can for up to 30days. Watchdog were truly sorry and hope the best of luck to you and the rest. We will be watching eagerly. Thank you.

[FightingBack]

Well good job on offering the refunds for the changes. I think it's good that your doing that, and that you offer refunds for customers up to 15 days. I see some matrix sites that don't offer any once payment is sent.

Watchdog I wonder if any of those other sites you listed have read this. Farewell~

[MrBill]

Originally posted by m321
WatchDog I must say you do bring up some good points. I don't know why you are just talking about my site; there are many more sites out there worse than mine. We even offer refunds for up to 15 days after your payment if you’re unhappy.




This is RIPE. This guy doesn't even claim to be on the level, he just says that some folks out there are even more crooked than he is.

It's going to be a fine thing if some of these matrix thieves end up getting sent away. They can then learn the virtues of honest work (or the wages of sin depending on how you look at it), making beds and doing laundry for their jail husbands.

[concerned]

Originally posted by m321
WatchDog I must say you do bring up some good points. I don't know why you are just talking about my site; there are many more sites out there worse than mine. We even offer refunds for up to 15 days after your payment if you’re unhappy.

Yes Arzel you are correct. We have little business experience. With this whole law suite going on we are curious to see what will happen. If watchdog wins you can bet we will close and refund customers. When we first started we had no intention of all this happening.

But watchdog I really wish you would go after the worse site first. I know there are sites that take your money and run. Watchdog has good points and when first typing those areas up it was like "Oh okay were done writing them forever." Looks like I was wrong, and forgot about what they truly say. For any customer that would like a refund because of the change, they can for up to 30days. Watchdog were truly sorry and hope the best of luck to you and the rest. We will be watching eagerly. Thank you.

If you admit to not having business experience, why would you start a business without having at least a business consultant. Anybody with some business sense would have told you that this would be a very bad idea. You said that you had no intention of the lawsuit happening when you started, but if you had somebody with a business degree such as myself look at the business model, it would have been told to you that it would not work. You can tell that you don't have any business sense when you state "I really wish you would go after the worse site first." This implies two things. First, that you are a bad business man, since you admit that your site is not good, and second, that your business is not legit, since you say that there are worse violators than you. This implies that you are a violator also.

In addition, you should really remove this quite from the front page of your website under the title "News Flash".

"Matrix321 is your #1 source for all your electronic needs! Visit frequently as our site updates daily!"

I thought that matrix sites were ONLY about selling ebooks. If that is the case, it should read,

"Matrix321 is your #1 source for all your ebook needs! Visit frequently as our site updates daily!

And to take a quote from Jay Leno, if you wanted to talk about the "truth in advertising" the quote should say,

"Matrix321 is your #1 source for having you pay for all the electronic needs of people that bought ebooks before you! You will probably never get your electronics if you got here after at least 10 others, but please visit frequently as our site updates it's scams daily!"

My best advise to you, coming from somebody that has both a college degree in business, and a job as a business consultant, you should close up shop imediately. If you don't, more people will cycle, you will buy more gifts, and WHEN these sites are OFFICIALLY deemed illegal, you will have more debt then, then you will have now. I think you should take your inexperience as a business man, and consider this lesson number one in the world of business, unless you want to be considered one of those businesses that have to hold their heads down like Enron.

[Agent|Star]

Why are you all attacking matrix sites for using the same advertising tac-tics that other business use? You act like it is the first time you have seen this method of advertisments...

Any business person would know you gotta sell a product with an ATTENTION GETTING method. SO what about the ebooks... I can sell socks on a website and talk only about tshirts and sooooo what????????????????????? lol

[mikv]

We have seen this type of advertising before and it was as illegal then as it is now. There are laws that prohibit bait and switch and other misleading forms and people get shutdown because of it. I don't think they are attacking matrix sites solely because of this, people are mad because this is only the first of a string of lies. I agree that every business owner needs an "attention getting" ad but first they need an attention getting product which the Ebook is not. The business you speak of is one where the owner is actually licensed and has money "before" they open the business up. As well any real businessman will try to get the word out to everyone and anyone who will listen, matrix sites only try to reach as far as the matrix community and there aren't very many that reach further than the world wide web with promotions. That's something that has baffled me from the get go, they are supposedly running a legitimate business, but yet they don't use conventional means of advertising; newspaper, tv, radio, public access, billboards, etc...They rely on word of mouth, but only between people that already know about it...They don't go out looking for the unique customer they sit and hope for others to bring that customer to them.

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by mikv
That's something that has baffled me from the get go, they are supposedly running a legitimate business, but yet they don't use conventional means of advertising; newspaper, tv, radio, public access, billboards, etc...They rely on word of mouth, but only between people that already know about it...They don't go out looking for the unique customer they sit and hope for others to bring that customer to them.


How can you be so sure that they arent using means like newspapers and radios are you available in every state? I have heard of matrix site ownres posting in bullitens and newspapers or community news...... Billboards now you are getting ridiculous, you know how much that costs!! News flash :: Matrix owners arent rich nor getting rich dont even bring that one up lol....

[mikv]

That's why your site didn't work and that's why all other matrix sites won't work. You all come into this business venture with nothing but the shirt on your backs and then wonder why you can't be successful. You have to have money already in order to run a successful business. You expect the matrix lists to produce advertising, product purhasing money, and your income all at the same time and that is what is ridiculous. You rely solely on the website to do business by itself. The reason I KNOW they aren't using these means is because every list becomes stagnant. Advertising outside of the web is the ONLY way to keep lists moving constantly. You may or may not have heard about the DIGITAL DIVIDE....That is the ratio between people that do have computers and people that don't. The ratio of people that don't have computers is greater than those who do. Thus you're missing out on millions of unique customers and millions of sales because you have no desire to seek those customers out. That is the difference between a legitimate business owner and a scam artist. The scam artist will only broadcast the scam to those that already know about it and the legitimate owner will tell everyone no matter who or where.

[Bulldog]

This is good too:

This question is not that easy to answer, since it will depend entirely on how many people signed up before you and the rate at which other people sign up after you. But if everything work out as planned and we receive the promotion help from our buyers as expected, if you place your order now you should probably cycle on average within the next 3 months (although bigger matrices may take a little longer, and smaller matrices a lot less). The key is to be patient, and you will receive your desired goodies. Once we can calculate an exact "lead time", we will publish it by each matrix. And please, keep this always in your head (I receive this comment by email all the time): We won't disappear with your money, we are here to make an honest trade with our partners (yes, all of you the buyers). In this type of business you get more by being honest than by being dishonest.

HAHAHAHA

[Bulldog]

Hey concerned,
Looks like Matrix321 liked your idea...their page now states (as you said):

"Matrix321 is your #1 source for all your ebook needs! Visit frequently as our site updates daily!"

Isn't that wonderful? You should charge them fees for that!

[MatrixWatch]

They need to shut down today. *wait* *wait* Nope, still there. Why don't they listen to this one? What do they want, an ultimatum. All we are doing is making their site so "honest" that they admit to the laws they break, and give away any misdirection strategies that would have brought customers in. So, they are an honest matrix site now. How do they exspect to bring in new customers?

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by mikv
That's why your site didn't work and that's why all other matrix sites won't work. You all come into this business venture with nothing but the shirt on your backs and then wonder why you can't be successful.

Heheh... I actually put a lot of money into my site before opening. I sold quality phone cards... I bought a lot of phone cards various types before openning up dont tell me I didnt invest anything into my own site. You dont know how much I spent. I'm curious if you actually seen my site while it was in operation....

When I opened up my site I had no idea there was so many other sites. I had already opened up and then found my way into the forums lol after that I saw so many other sites and cycle lists of 2! That blew me away hehee TWO!!! lol

I'd be lying if I didnt admit that WatchDogs had a lot to do with the reasons for closing my site. Only when i joined the forum I learned about WatchDogs existance I would not have opened my site if I found the forums sooner grrr... Anyways after seeing watchdogs posts, I didnt want to have more customers on my list only to end up being targeted and having to close and refund even more people. I also want to point out my site wasnt like these others... Nothing cost over $35 bucks (that was the only price on my site) my PhoneCards could very well be sold at $35 bucks legally and you know what..... Its something that customers can keep comming back to purchase not like the ebooks that become questionable.... Not to mention I sold phonecards that weren't related to the "tracking lists" I think my matrix was a hell of a lot safer then these matrix i come across... Im curious what you folks would have to say about my site if it was still open. Also, on my site I didnt focuss at all about the matrix items... I made it more known that I sell phone cards... My banner exchanges and search engine submits didn't help me get customers, so those two things lead to my decision...

Getting my site up and running took about 6 months as I spent a lot of time researchs phone cards and good prices.. Also spent time for items to giveaway as well as geting my tax license and designing the site.. I assure you my site wasn't another popup out of nowhere kinda of thing........ I did infact cycle out someone which left my pot empty... I made over 84 website banners (not for any matrix site incase you are wondering) just to make money to pay my customers back a 90% refund as they did infact recieve a great phonecard that worked! I am not upset at my lost, you live and you learn.

Btw the most popular success stories are about people who made it when they had absolutly nothing!

I appologize WatchDog I do not intend to hijack this post =o\ Sorry...

[concerned]

Originally posted by BigStarr
When I opened up my site I had no idea there was so many other sites. I had already opened up and then found my way into the forums lol after that I saw so many other sites and cycle lists of 2! That blew me away hehee TWO!!! lol

I'd be lying if I didnt admit that WatchDogs had a lot to do with the reasons for closing my site. Only when i joined the forum I learned about WatchDogs existance I would not have opened my site if I found the forums sooner grrr...

First of all, let me give another bit of free business advise. Anybody that plans on starting a new business should do a little market research. In your case, it would have taken about 5 minutes to search for other matrix sites, and see that there were a lot of other sites out there. That is just a bad excuse. If you had done some research, you would have already seen that the market was flooded.

Now, to get back on track here.

What I said before about matrix321 was just the begining. They are not honest yet. They never will be. Here is another quote from their site. It is under the "Tips and Tricks" link. Nice name by the way, since it is nothing but a trick.

Remember the faster you join, the faster you cycle!

Shouldn't it say,

Remember the faster you join, the better your chance that you MIGHT cycle!

Here's another quote from that "Tips and Tricks" link.

Many people say "I'm going to wait some time to check how well the matrix moves, and then I make my offer". THIS IS A MISTAKE!!! After you finally decide to place your offer, there will be plenty of people over your name that were supposed to be under your name (helping you to get your desired item) if you have had made your offer in the first place.

The just lay down the claim that this is a ponzi scheme. They say that if you wait to buy in, then you have to wait longer, or you might not even get that gift. They also explain how it is other people that are HELPING you cycle. Basically, they are admitting that they are taking money from later "investors" to pay earlier "investors" which is the CLASSICdefinition of a Ponzi Scheme.

Here is another quote from their FAQ page. I think it is funny that they mention the honesty part.

And please, keep this always in your head (I receive this comment by email all the time): We won't disappear with your money, we are here to make an honest trade with our partners (yes, all of you the buyers). In this type of business you get more by being honest than by being dishonest.

Why would they feel the need to tell you that they aren't going to run with your money. Sounds like they are blowing smoke in your face.

Here is another quote from their FAQ page.

Our system, however, is a straight-line matrix (never grows sideways, only downward, which makes it a lot easier to fill up).

Why don't they just SAY it is a scam. This line proves that the matrix will GROW.

Here is the analysis of this site.

DON'T INVEST ANY MONEY HERE!!!!!

[Agent|Star]

I did to searches for matrix.. go type matrix in a search engine do you get anything coming up?

I couldnt find other sites unless i was buying on ebay lol right? I didnt bother going into forums cause honestly I hate forums.. Poor excuse or not its the truth.... Besides the fact Im not making an excuse I'm just telling my story =o)~~~~~~~~


And about Matrix321.... Nothing an easy edit cant fix lol I mean way I see it you guys are perfect for giving advice :D Shall I contact them and let them know they need to fix their tex and be more honest? I can do that..

[Bulldog]

I have a few screenshots of their webpage before they were changed.
I don't know if they would be any good or stand up for anything, but just in case...

[Bulldog]

As an interesting tidbit, take a look at the products bar at the side of their screen. They don't try to hide the fact that they are not in it for the ebooks...example: "Video game - 10 bucks!"

Matrix321 - consider this a warning....close down while you still can