Why do you care???

[sigx97]

...

[northstar5757]

Well I don't know what type of person you are but I myself will usually stick my neck out if i see some injustice. I mean being white I havn't experienced much racism but that doesn't mean that I won't go out and help minorities. I don't know anyone who personally lost money in such scams (well actually I do but not very well) but that doesn't make it ok on my part. I don't wuite understand your logic...

[Matrix-News.Net]

People are getting themselves involved into the matrix scheme without doing the math and realizing that they just wasted their life savings on a couple of e-books and thats it. People are losing their money in the matrix buisness, and this website helps those "victims".

[sigx97]

....

[Gowen32]

Originally posted by Matrix-News.Net
People are getting themselves involved into the matrix scheme without doing the math and realizing that they just wasted their life savings on a couple of e-books and thats it. People are losing their money in the matrix buisness, and this website helps those "victims".

LMAO! I have never heard of such a lie! LoL. People are not waisting their life savings. The average price to sell something on a matrix site is somewhere around $55. That is not a life savings. And some ebooks out there are worth a lot. I bought into this one ebook and it's value was $49.95 alone.

[Matrix-News.Net]

Don't take it literally. What I mean by life savings is a large sum of money. There are people out there that invseted hundreds and some thousands.

[sigx97]

...

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by sigx97
We have to take everything literally here it seems or one of the big bad scary puppydogs will call you on it and try to make you look stupid on the forums.


Yes....exactly.....

The way you word things on here is under strutiny by Watch Dog and his supporters......

[Agent|Star]

My guess is that these people really did invest in a matrix site that either closed, scammed, or they were very far behind for a chance to cycle..

You would not put so much time and energy into something like this unless you got pissed over something... I think what they mean to say is "I wouldn't spend ANOTHER penny on a matrix site" lol

Yep they do hold you to every word and work a way toward twisting things as well...

[amagic2u]

I was all for the matrix and have yet to recieve a dime yet I have cycled on over $ 3500.00 and should have on two more my point is I went to the owners and asked what is up nothing thank God I copy everything and the tos that I have copys of are not the same today not even close and I started way back in 2002 with ezexpo and others so it was not until I read the smut talk of shelby and it just was how dare you talk to any one that way so you see I was not way down on the list and or mad because I would never it was because I was lied to ripped off and treated like crap ok

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by amagic2u
I was all for the matrix and have yet to recieve a dime yet I have cycled on over $ 3500.00 and should have on two more my point is I went to the owners and asked what is up nothing thank God I copy everything and the tos that I have copys of are not the same today not even close and I started way back in 2002 with ezexpo and others so it was not until I read the smut talk of shelby and it just was how dare you talk to any one that way so you see I was not way down on the list and or mad because I would never it was because I was lied to ripped off and treated like crap ok


I am sorry to hear abut being robbed when you indeed cycled fairly... I can understand you are pissed by that.. Oh thats a lot of money. Did you know my first experience with a matrix site was probably as bad as can be =o) GetExtra.Com was the name and they scammed quite a few of us... I put in about $300 bucks which put me in a mode to hunt down SOMEONE which i did... I recieved my monies back, sadly i dont think anyone else was refunded as I had to make threats......

Even after being scammed I still jumped into another site. Call me crazy, it was eBanana.Com I cycled in a months time and took 2 months later to get the gifts =o)

[Arzel]

Some people will or already have lost their life savings, it is a statistcial infalability.

I am one of the people that sigx97 is referring, as to not having invested any money into these sites. I have my own reasons, one of which is that I have seen these types of scams on a personal level.

A similar scam worked it's way through my small home town when I was younger, several people I know lost a few thousand dollars in the scheme. I was able to talk my parents, brother, and a couple of my brother's friends out of getting involved when I found out about it.

My brother was mad at me at the time as well, mostly for talking my parents out of the scam, but he was pretty happy when the whole thing came crashing down.

[tcb1969a]

Well.....luckily I didn't lose my life savings in a Matrix site.....just in my own....hmm....

[Agent|Star]

Originally posted by Arzel
Some people will or already have lost their life savings, it is a statistcial infalability.


I dont know many that have literally lost their lifes savings... Most matrix sites are 300 and below. Then you have some crazy people that offer cars or quads... That's pretty crazy I would never invest anything over $200.

People that lose there lifesaving in something like matrix.. hummmmmmmmmmmmm.... I can see at a casino yeah that they keep going back to but matrix I suupose its possible but there is very few that go that far.

[northstar5757]

Originally posted by sigx97
Thats exactly what I mean. Why is it your busniess? What pain or strife has a matrix caused you? None except for whatever you have created and brought upon yourself. If you feel you must have a cause then get your community to plant more trees or clean up a creek that has trash in it, atleast something that actually affects you.

Have you ever heard of the quote for evil to exist all it takes is for good men to do nothing? For instance most people in Nazi Germany were good people but they stood back and allowed their government to create injustice partly because it didn't effect them.

I guess if you saw a man beating up his wife you wouldn't report it because it didn't concern you.... wow I'd love to have soemone like you in my neighborhood.

Are there greater injustices than the matrix out there? Yes of course. I'm certainly far from being a crusader. I just post on these forums and that's it (you're right my free time would be better spent doing something else). I'm just voicing my support (usualy during free time at work lol) for the one's here that are doing soemthing to stop it. Plus I find the whole thing very interesting.

[northstar5757]

Big star,

Ya it more likely that someone will lose their lifesavings in risky stocks or do to somegambling addiction. Of course more people also invest in these. I would guess that the average matrix investor doesn't put much more than 100 bucks in but I could be wrong. I have however seen the same person on a single list about 20 times (over 1000$) a few times. Who knows how many other lists or sites that person is on as well.

Not saying that the customer is not to blame. Just pointing out that some people are investing a heck of a lot of money.

[Agent|Star]

I have seen that as well... I have seen that a lot... My guess was these "crazy" people cause thats what i consider them to be.. CRAZY.. I always figured the people that did that knew the matrix system pretty well as far as how it operates... but i have no idea if thats true being they know the system.....

Ive never seen any one of those indivduals that buy up spots like that in the forums... Hey thats an interesting thought.......

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by sigx97
I don't understand something here. I have read a posts from members here who hate matrix owners, matrix sites, and matrix supporters, but they say "I have never spent a penny on matrix sites". Why is any of this your business then? You don't have any reason to be involved other than you are the type who has to have some sort of cause. You have no experience with Matrix sites, so all you do is repeat what you have heard. I guess its just me, but I don't stick my nose in other people's business.

I think a few of our members have already alluded to the correct retort to your statement. Your assumption is that people should only fight for a cause that directly affects them. My question for you is, "Why do people only need to fight for causes that affect them directly?" What about deeper issues like compassion, empathy, and justice for others? Have you considered any of this in your critique of our campaign here? You are basically stating that if it doesn't concern us then we should "pass on the other side of the street", and leave the victims lying there.

[sigx97]

[....

[northstar5757]

The longer the matrix runs the more people that get hurt. The worst ponzu schemes are the one's that go on for years. A matrix that collapses in 3 months hurts far less people than one that collapses in 3 years.

[sigx97]

....

[sigx97]

...

[hurley9192]

sounds like matrixfriendly has recruited some new people to push Watchdog's buttons.

Truth of the matter, that if everyone just didn't do anything, ebay would be out of control because people are selling links to these sites for hundreds of dollars promising that they will get a product and it's really just the link to the website.

Check out "alienware" on ebay by doing a search... there were people paying over $500 on there thinking they were getting a cheap laptop, when all they were getting was a spot in the matrix. We're looking out for those people that get roped in by false promises.

So, we should just let people get sucked into scams with false promises, by not doing anything and warning them. Your claim is that we are the ones bringing down the matrix world, when we are pretty much just a forum to give the information on what is going on.

[sigx97]

....

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by sigx97
Have you considered the amount of innocent customers you are hurting to get to the point you want to be at???? Even though you think your cause is all about compassion and empathy, its not.

I am glad that you brought this up. Let me tell you how Matrix Watch is different from the other "anti-fraud" groups out there. Most of the time, internet scams rip a bunch of people off and then they are gone. Certain groups are formed to ensure that they do not come back again, and their aim is to prevent more people from being defrauded. We are different. We are preventing these scam sites from ripping more people off, however, we are also fighting to get the money BACK to those who invested in them. So, you say that we are "hurting" all of these present customers. No, we are not. We are fighting to get their money back. In fact, due to the lawsuits that are currently on the table, there are a lot of people getting refunds already.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by sigx97
HAHAHAHAHA Don't flatter yourself!!!! I never claimed that or said that!!! You just assumed, wow you have a high opinion of what you do here don't you????? Thats the funniest thing I have read on this site yet! HAHAHA You are the ones bring down the matrix world...thats a good one! :) :) :) :)

Well, please tell us what you think brought the matrix sites then. You should start another thread for it though so you don't bring this one off topic.

[hurley9192]

Originally posted by sigx97
Have you considered the amount of innocent customers you are hurting to get to the point you want to be at???? Even though you think your cause is all about compassion and empathy, its not.

Yes, I guess that based on what's been written here, newbie, over the past few months, which you haven't seen, people make comments just like yours above that says that we are the ones responsible for taking down matrix sites and are hurting the people on the lists and the matrix world in general.

So, I'm not the one saying that we are bringing down the matrix world. It's YOUR side that is blaming us for hurting the matrix world.

[northstar5757]

No I am not sayign the matrix is as bad as nazis. I'm saying that if you look throughout history you will see that most crimes have occured because people sit back and idlely. I could have cited several other instances but nazi Germany is the most prominant. They even have a term for it in social psychology (diffusion of responsibility, although it also incompasses a few other factors).

Anyways the point is that it is ridicualous to say that you have no right to help a victim unless you are a victim as well.

[northstar5757]

As for yelling at my neighbors for using an SUV you are correct. however if I found out my neighbors were running a ponzi scheme it might be a little different...

[northstar5757]

"Have you considered the amount of innocent customers you are hurting to get to the point you want to be at???? Even though you think your cause is all about compassion and empathy, its not. "

BTW that's one of the most frequent things people say to the government when they close down a ponzi scheme. The government should not be blamed the owners of illegal activity should.

And yes Iknow you will say that the matrix is legal but spare me the technicalities. We all know it is a ponzi scheme with a bait and switch.

[MatrixWatch]

Why did sigx go through this thread and delete his messages?

[josemiguel]

i think just this could've been a good topic. I'm also curious why all you matrix haters care so much and are so eager to ruin what matrix customers are enjoying and appreciating so much! matrix customers should read everything before buying, there's no trick behind a matrix (unless it closes because of you guys)

I'm a proud member of 5 matrixes. SO far I've won a Sony laptop, an ipod photo, 20GB ipod and an ipod mini and I'm waiting for many more prizes to come!

[MatrixWatch]

Jose,
Feel free to start some new threads on the boards here asking some of your questions, and making some comments. We'd look forward to discussing some of your ideas and sharing back and forth.

The main rules are: Respect one another, and never "hijack" a thread (take it off topic).

[ycchen]

I'm a proud member of 5 matrixes. SO far I've won a Sony laptop, an ipod photo, 20GB ipod and an ipod mini and I'm waiting for many more prizes to come!

josemiguel, you definitely did pretty well in getting your sponsored gifts. However, how do we know if what you said is real or not? :cool:

[concerned]

iI'm also curious why all you matrix haters care so much and are so eager to ruin what matrix customers are enjoying and appreciating so much!

I guess all those matrix customers enjoy getting scammed and would have more fun getting scammed if sites like Matrix Watch weren't around. If they really like getting scammed so much, then maybe they can find other ways to get scammed.

[jokach]

to ruin what matrix customers are enjoying and appreciating so much!


I certainly think that if you were to ask the matrix customers in the middle and at the bottom of the lists if they are enjoying and appreciating what they've done, they would disagree. Seems you speak for the top 1-2% who might get their gift because they either know the person running the matrix site, or got an inside tip as to when a new list was starting and got on the list early.

May I ask what sites you have cycled on?

jokach

[Dreamer]

Whats really amazing is none of the people participating on this site is being paid to do what they believe is right. I'm sure all of these people have jobs, maybe go to school, maybe have a family. Yet, they spend countless hours here doing what that consider is fighting the good fight.

So, all the people who paid for your products...did you send them all personal thank you cards since thats probably the only thing they ll ever get from the site?

[josemiguel]

ycchen, i am saying the truth because i'm not a site owner, if I were, I'd advertise my site which I'm not doing, if I were lying, I would have to be a matrix owner.

jokach, the people who participate in matrixes and are in the middle or end are just stupid or they are going for the FAST TRACK system. The matrixes I've participated in are power2source, free techgifts ( the reason why I found this site... seems like i've been frauded) ilot.co.uk (same as freetechgifts), getgiftsforfree, ipones, theappleguy and fastfreegifts. you can see jose miguel on any of those sites and there's the proof that I've won, I can't give you any better proof than that. so far i've inveted $840 and won $3260 (final profit is 3260-840) so I'm not too worried about the fraud although it does slightly piss me off.

[josemiguel]

Why did sigx go through this thread and delete his messages?


watchdog, i didn't try and steal this post, sorry. it's just that i saw only that page and thought the whole thread had been deleted and that message i copied up there was all that was left (i didn't realize there were 3 other pages!) :o

[josemiguel]

sorry, last thing. I think it's a bigger fraud what you do on this site by asking for money to finance this website than what matrix schemes do...

2005 Matrixwatch Donation Drive

Operation Costs:
$480.00
Amount Donated So Far:
$220
Amount Still Needed:
$260.00

[mercinary]

Our mission statement:


To create the most useful and informative web portal for knowledge about the latest internet-based schemes; and to build, unite, and empower a community dedicated to making the internet a safer place for everyone.


We are here only to help the victims of the matrix scheme. The money that is donated to us is NOT profit. Take a look at our <a href="http://www.matrixwatch.org/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=11">operating costs</a>.

I don't see how accepting voluntary donations from members who feel we have provided a valuable service is fraudulent in any way! In particular I don't see how you can compare our donation drive to that of matrix fraud. :eek:

-Merc

[Arzel]

Originally posted by josemiguel
ycchen, i am saying the truth because i'm not a site owner, if I were, I'd advertise my site which I'm not doing, if I were lying, I would have to be a matrix owner.

jokach, the people who participate in matrixes and are in the middle or end are just stupid or they are going for the FAST TRACK system. The matrixes I've participated in are power2source, free techgifts ( the reason why I found this site... seems like i've been frauded) ilot.co.uk (same as freetechgifts), getgiftsforfree, ipones, theappleguy and fastfreegifts. you can see jose miguel on any of those sites and there's the proof that I've won, I can't give you any better proof than that. so far i've inveted $840 and won $3260 (final profit is 3260-840) so I'm not too worried about the fraud although it does slightly piss me off.

To classify people in the middle or the end as stupid is quite ironic. Everyone, except for the 1st person, must have been at both the end and the middle at some point, ergo...... Regardless of this do you feel happy that you have basically ripped off the people behind you?

Also, just because you happen to have been fortunate to get in early on a few sites I would not expect that to last. As more people become knowledgable about these scams the motivation to join is reduced. As happened on all the previous matrix sites it soon was obvious that the only way to really make anything was to get in right away. New lists would open up with a frantic dash to be first in the list, and then the list would die.

Pretty soon if people saw that they wouldn't be in top 4 or 5 spots they wouldn't join and then even the top spots wouldn't get anything.

The matrix system is based off the knowledge that a certain percentage of people will not understand how it works. The more informed use this information to take advantage of the less informed. As more people understand how it works the system falls apart.

This is partially why you don't see Matrix site in the US anymore. They still exist, just not under the same format. The name changes and a new crop of uniformed become bait.

I have no sympthy for people like you, as you clearly understand what is happening and have no remorse for the money you are taking from the less informed.

[josemiguel]

I still defend matrix sites and have nothing against them. If not, are you telling me that lotteries are legal (based on your opinions)? everything that they advertise is legal as far as I'm concerned, whether you like it or not, some people are just a bit too dumb to read everything before buying. The closing down of matrix sites is definetely something which shouldn't occur, that's when the scams begin. without the closing down of the website, there would be NO scam.

what i am against are sites such as CLEAROUTCLUB. I think it's amazing that sites such as those still exist while I type!!!

[jokach]

Lotteries are legal if they are run properly (regulated and audited). Its not legal for any person just to start a lottery (except for non-profits, who are still regulated) because of the fear of cheating, thats where the governments come in.. Theres plenty of information on this site on lotteries, just do a search.


The closing down of matrix sites is definetely something which shouldn't occur, that's when the scams begin. without the closing down of the website, there would be NO scam.


Being the fact that 75% of the matrix sites that have existed to date have closed, and most others that are still open have stagnant lists, you should notice that there is a pattern for the future of matrix sites, the statistics of the model guarantee that they will close. What kills me is the people who are 'just a bit too dumb' to take a look at the model and realize that 97% of the people will not cycle ....

jokach

[josemiguel]

well, I think that getgiftsforfree.com is the original matrix site, i'm not sure. but that one definetely has a lot of movement and is quite old. (considering I read somehwere on this site that they lasted 2-3 months at most)

[Arzel]

well, I think that getgiftsforfree.com is the original matrix site, i'm not sure. but that one definetely has a lot of movement and is quite old. (considering I read somehwere on this site that they lasted 2-3 months at most)

getgiftsforfree is most definately not the first matrix scam. This site won't last much longer, the lists are quite long, and frankly I am surprised it has lasted as long as it has.

Quote:
The closing down of matrix sites is definetely something which shouldn't occur, that's when the scams begin. without the closing down of the website, there would be NO scam.

I am not sure where your logic is with this quote.

[Dreamer]

I havent kept up with this thread, and I guess I'll go back to see how its on track, but I'll respond to the original qustion...why do i care?

Before that, let me start off how I found out about matrix sites. Before I built my system I was contemplating buying an alienware. I would go to alienware.com and tweak out a system, figure how much it would cost, than I went to ebay. Doing a keyword search on alienware I found alienware clones "We buy from the same company alienware buys from, we just dont give you their sticker". Comparing these gaming systems to the alienware systems I have been looking at for a couple years, yeah it looked similiar, but alienware uses the top of the line and the clones use a cheaper alternative.

With that said, I also saw these adds to buy an alienware for like $30 or something stupid. Today I know to look for "ebooks" or "information" however back than I didnt see either of them (was looking at the specs like most people do", and if I saw "information" i thought maybe I would be buying a wholesale mailing list that I could buy the desktop at below retail cost. Would I spend $30 on that? Sure. Just for the information alone. But, it didn't sound right. It never did. So, I spend months looking at similiar adds on ebay trying to figure out what the angle was.

Well, one day I finally found it. The sale was for $.99 and the add said something like "Do not bid on this auction. Just go to this site instead and said I sent you" or something. I dont remember what the site was, but I think it might have been theimatrix since I think that was the first site I found. Maybe it was something else long forgotten. Anyways, I spent a few solid weeks on different matrix sites reading forums trying to figure out how it worked. Maybe I'm just a slow learner, because now that i know how it works, it should have been obvious. But, being it was a scam I never heard of before I had to piece it together from scratch. After all, i found the site trying to figure out how I can get something cheaply (at that point I wasnt thinking I could buy it for $20, but still buy information for the $20).

I next found matrixwatch and have learned so much more by reading threads and asking stupid questions. Since I never lost money in a matrix, hype, mlm, or whatever online, why do i care?

I've lost plenty of money by people who took advantage of me irl. People I once considered friends. People I trusted. People that were trustworthy. People that wouldnt lie to me. People that sounds like the current owner of the hotest matrix site out there, or whatever other program out there. Unfortunately, I only found out the truth after it was too late.

Like when my ex-fiance kicked me out of the house, I was living in a hotel for a year afterwards. Well, a friend that worked next door to where I worked said she had a room available for $400 a month. Only a couple miles from work, she'll help me move. So, I thought why not. Gave her $400 and her to pick me up. Well, she had car problems, so I gave her $75 to fix her tires. Something came up. I was back in the hotel for a month until she came to me again. This time it was all set. Just give her another $400 to cover security, etc, and were good to go. I figure that was fair. When I started asking about when im going to move in she stopped talking to me. She had her kids lie to me on the phone. When I called just to talk to a friend she was nowhere to be found. Months later, her and her friend stopped by the shop, and asked for a cigerette from me. I so wanted to pull a baseball bat on her.

Thats why I care. All these people say the owner is trustworthy. The mods are honest. Everything is cool. But, when the site closes down, these same supporters dont bother thinking for a second that they've been swindled and the owner made the money they wanted, but they come here and blame the efforrts of the people at matrixwatch. even after being had, the owners can do no wrong.

no matter how honest somebody is, they cant really be that honest when they adopt a scam designed to steal from over half the supporters to put money in their pockets, and live by a set of questionable terms that they think they can hide behind.

Anyways, back to whatever tangent you guys took this thread to.

[sisco50]

Wow!! That sure was a lot of reading for something that didn't make any sense to me! Sorry! I guess it may be the long hours I am working lately. I will try to read it again when I am not so tired.... :(

[MatrixWatch]

I think that he is telling his story of how he got involved with the anti-matrix effort and how he found his way here to MatrixWatch.org. He also pointed out how the supporters of web scammers would rather blame us for a scam shutting down than blame the scammer who has taken off with their money. Dreamer is observing how ridiculous that is, probably because if those supporters would just join us in going after scammers, then nobody might have ever been swindledin the first place.

[concerned]

I still defend matrix sites and have nothing against them.

Why are we even helping you then? You have asked for help on another thread because you were scammed by one of these sites, and now you say you will defend them. You want us to help you with freetechgifts and ilot.co.uk, but for what reason? After all, you will defend the sites that they were modeled from. If you want to defend them, then don't come here crying when you get scammed. It is your own fault. I hate it when people come here and try to get their money back because the scam didn't work in their favor. Then after we help them, they go back and try other scams and contributing towards scamming more people. It really makes me mad when we waste effort on someone like you just so that you can go scam others. My advice is not to help him anymore until he vows to stop defending the scams and helping many more people get scammed. That has always been my stance.

The closing down of matrix sites is definetely something which shouldn't occur, that's when the scams begin. without the closing down of the website, there would be NO scam.

Really? How can the scams happen AFTER the site is closed? Didn't you get what you paid for? NO!!! That is why it is called a scam in the first place. If it was a legitimate investment company, then you would not get scammed AFTER it closed. If a site like amazon.com closed down, would Amazon customers start getting scammed after the site closed? No, because they would have already gotten what they paid for. They don't need 500 other people to buy a book, before they get theirs in the mail. The same thing happens in the stock market. If you buy stocks from Charles Schwab, and they close down, you still own the stocks, and can trade them with another broker. For you to say that the scams start after the site is closed is just plain stupid, and one of the most unintelligent arguments I have seen by a pro-matrix person in a long time.

what i am against are sites such as CLEAROUTCLUB. I think it's amazing that sites such as those still exist while I type!!!

By the way, clearoutclub was modeled after a matrix site, so while you will state that matrix sites are NOT scams, you will call all sites that you didn't make money from a scam, even though it was copied from the matrix business model. I guess in your eyes, if you win, it is OK, but if you don't win, it is a scam. What about all other other people that don't win just so that you can win. I guess you just don't care, and are that greedy. I hope you continue to get scammed so that you can know what it feels like for all the victims out there. That is the only way you will learn.

[josemiguel]

first of all, i have not and will not participate in any more matrix sites, not because I'm against them but because they close down.

next, what does clearoutclub have to do with any matrix site? wheres the lists...

finally, i did get what i bought, a stupid ebook or whatever and a spot on a very valuable list.

[concerned]

first of all, i have not and will not participate in any more matrix sites, not because I'm against them but because they close down.

Why do you think they close? They don't close because they want to. They get tired of people complaining to them. At least the first ones used to promise that you would cycle in about 6 months. After it was taking people over 2 years to get half way up the list, they started to complain. The reason they close is because they cannot ever keep the scam going. The other reason they close, is that some of them place fake names at the top of each list. When those fake names finally cycle off, they either have to actually pay real customers, or they can close. In order to make maximum profit from their site, they chose to close. The last reason they close is simple. They are scams, and the payment processors don't allow them to do business. After all, processors like Paypal don't want to get sued for allowing someone to scam other people. It is their responsibility to make sure their customers don't get scammed.

next, what does clearoutclub have to do with any matrix site? wheres the lists...

Clearoutclub sells you worthless information. Where do you think they got that idea from? Could it be from the matrix sites that sell the worthless ebooks?

finally, i did get what i bought, a stupid ebook or whatever and a spot on a very valuable list.

Would you have made the purchase if the spot on the list was not available?