Turn The Tables

[YMSAMess]

Greetings, all:

Have had it with YM. Have been thinking for a bit of how best to handle this unfortunate attack on our sensibilities, and believe I have found an answer.

YM is built on the idea that advertisers buy into us, as we do, thereby tapping a pool of consumers to buy their products.

What if those same consumers, instead of buying from these advertisers, decided to BOYCOTT those same advertisers for participating in lining the pockets of those in charge of YM?

I am not certain how many people are in YM at this time, but I am sure that if we all decided to boycott the advertisers, and LET THEM KNOW we will not buy from them until this situation is resolved to the satisfaction of all members (i.e. complete remittance of at LEAST our initial investments) I think we could see some movement.

I understand that it may be a case of biting the hand that feeds us, but isn't YM doing the same thing to us? They are feasting on a meal, allowing us only to nibble on the scraps they drop.

[Gringo]

The problem with your suggestion is that there are no paid advertisers to boycott. They are all commission ads run through Clickbank and other similar companies. If one day any paid advertisers do show up, they certainly won't renew ads on a medium that has already been proven to be ineffective-paid to read ad sites.

[concerned]

The problem with your suggestion is that there are no paid advertisers to boycott.

I have a suggestion. Does anyone have any credits to place an ad? Maybe you can place an ad for Mydv, and the followers can support that bad business.

[mercinary]

Or better yet, place an ad for Matrixwatch! :D

-Merc

[surfer]

Or better yet, place an ad for Matrixwatch! :D

-Merc
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :crazy: lol lol lol lol

Welcome to Matrix Watch YMSAMess.

As the others said, first they have to
actually get some retail advertisers. lol :head:

[ycchen]

Or better yet, place an ad for Matrixwatch! :D

-Merc

Seriously, how much will it cost to place a non-commission adv (read: real adv) on STA?

We might be able to throw real and legitimate outside income into the RFA.

Let's get the donation drive going to collect money to place an adv, so we can also contribute to the pool :rolleyes:

[AvidA]

Yes please do. I would like to get paid. lol

[ycchen]

Greetings, all:

Have had it with YM. Have been thinking for a bit of how best to handle this unfortunate attack on our sensibilities, and believe I have found an answer.

YM is built on the idea that advertisers buy into us, as we do, thereby tapping a pool of consumers to buy their products.

What if those same consumers, instead of buying from these advertisers, decided to BOYCOTT those same advertisers for participating in lining the pockets of those in charge of YM?

I am not certain how many people are in YM at this time, but I am sure that if we all decided to boycott the advertisers, and LET THEM KNOW we will not buy from them until this situation is resolved to the satisfaction of all members (i.e. complete remittance of at LEAST our initial investments) I think we could see some movement.

I understand that it may be a case of biting the hand that feeds us, but isn't YM doing the same thing to us? They are feasting on a meal, allowing us only to nibble on the scraps they drop.YMAMess, welcome to MatrixWatch! (and also Ymmss-Watch ;))

Let me explain why there are better tactics than the usual boycott tactic. The main reason is that YMMSS / STA is a ponzi scam. It is not a real business. Since it is a ponzi scam, it will attract no real retail advertisement.

As many have said on this forum, there are no real advertisement income from STA because there are all commission advertisements.

To deal with real business, we use consumer boycott.

To deal with ponzi scam, we file complaints to authorities and file class lawsuit. That is probably the best way to get back some of your money and most importantly -- justice!

just my 2 cents

[AvidA]

I understand that it may be a case of biting the hand that feeds us, but isn't YM doing the same thing to us? They are feasting on a meal, allowing us only to nibble on the scraps they drop.

I am sorry but did I miss something? The only hand that feeds me is mine. lol--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ymmss_victim]

To deal with ponzi scam, we file complaints to authorities and file class lawsuit. That is probably the best way to get back some of your money and most importantly -- justice!

I'm thinking the FTC and SEC for the US folks, but I am no expert. I'm sure this hasn't escaped their notice, but they probably have lots of other scams to look at so the more complaints the better.

[AvidA]

Well that's just the thing. YCCHEN is right to say that we need more people to ban together. If you call the SEC of the AG of your state, YMMSS-Victim, you will most likely find they are too rushed to talk to you and don't care what you have to say. It takes a nag or people enmasse. Without it, he will get off scott-fee, however, I think enough people will come here in the end of the end days and start filing. I don't personally believe he will get away with it.

[ycchen]

Well that's just the thing. YCCHEN is right to say that we need more people to ban together. Yeap, if someone would volunteer to collect all the victims information and send them collectively to the AG, FBI ..etc, then it will really works. We really need that one person to do some minimum 'organizing' work on this forum. :yes:

Again, you can refer to "IT4US-scam.com" for inspiration :)

[Dreamer]

Would it make any difference if people started emailing these businesses informing them that they are being associated with a scam site and that we will boycott their business so long as they are associated with the site?

Would it help to get a list of all the so-called retailers, post a contact email address, so that if enough people email somebody who can do something, maybe that person will contact ym to have their link removed from the site.

Or, will this not work?

[AvidA]

That's a good idea. Why wouldn't it work? Money talks and clients and consumers are why people advertise anyway. If I owned a business, no matter how big or small I wouldn't want it to be associated with any internet scam theme at all! I've seen too many and I would resent it immensely.

So, how do we get a list of people together, ycchen? Or should I read about IT4US? I will read that now anyway. YM has everyone over a barrel because they read suspicious PMs there and someone started a "whispering campaigne" awhile back and esto had a cow and a lot of threatening verbage that he threw around. After that they started recording conference calls beginning with the disclaimer that "this call is the property of STA and anyone who says anything about this will be shot in the foot and dragged for miles behind my big car, etc" blah blah fullest extent of the law blah blah. lol You know what I mean. It opened a whole new can of worms.

[ycchen]

I think Dreamer's idea works too.

I am just a bit worry that Kim might use our campaign as an excuse to shut down the STA all together after he scam the last round of money.

However, if his "STA business" is real, then no "commission advertisers" will withdraw after they receive complaint and do their DD, right? So, kim and his cronies should not worry about this if YMMSS /STA is not a scam, right? :cool:

Remember, Kim is still milking the poor YM members and newbies as we speak. So, if I were him, I will just pay minimum for a few more times, and find a BIG excuse (it could be MW or some other stupid excuses) to stall for very long period of time until...... everyone "cut lost and go on with their life , while I enjoy my sunshine at Belize with my cronies. :nono:

In any cases, sooner or later, Kim and his cronies will blame "someone" for this site closure. So, fasten your seatbelt, MatrixWatch "might" be the chosen one simply because we reveal the truth of the scam. :yes:

[sisco50]

ycchen

"To deal with ponzi scam, we file complaints to authorities and file class lawsuit. That is probably the best way to get back some of your money and most importantly -- justice!

just my 2 cents"

Can we please clarify who "we" is in the above statement? Is it Matrixwatch the site or is it ycchen the poster? Or is it maybe the actual victim that has been defrauded that has the ability to file a formal complaint or persue a class action lawsuit with a group of victims? I can picture a newbie coming here looking for help and thinking you will help them; only to find out they really have to help themselves. :(

[surfer]

I would much rather see people hounding the
appropriate authorities instead of the alleged
retailers.

If someone must pursue this route, there are
really only two potential issues that the affiliate
managers of the various programs might have
a problem with.

1. The affiliate networks like Commission Junction,
Share A Sale, etc. request that their affiliates
disclose whether or not their shopping portals
provide incentives to purchase or click to generate
money.

An example from Share A Sale's affiliate agreement (http://www.shareasale.com/agreement.cfm):
If you run or utilize an incentive website, you MAY participate in shareasale.com's pay-per-click and pay-per-lead programs ONLY IF you receive specific written (fax or email are ok as well) permission from the merchant. You must also copy this specific permission to us, and that permission must detail exactly what kind of incentive your users have to click the links. Without this permission, your commissions may be voided. You are allowed to participate in any pay-per-sale programs without any special permission.
Points or reward programs for click or lead programs are NOT allowed. shareasale.com RESERVES THE RIGHT TO DEEM ANY SITE INAPPROPRIATE AND TERMINATE THE SITE AS A MEMBER OF shareasale.com. If You are terminated from the Service, shareasale.com has the right to withhold money You earned within the Service or money that You owe within the Service and You will not be allowed to re-join shareasale.com.
If YMMSS-Success Through Advertising is
using any merchants that pay per click or
per lead and have not disclosed the fact
that they share revenues with their registered
affiliates, they may be deemed to be in
violation of Share A Sale's affiliate agreement.

Because affiliates share in any revenue, they
may also be in violation of Google Adsense
policies (https://www.google.com/adsense/policies).
Incentives

Web pages may not include incentives of any kind for users to click on ads. This includes encouraging users to click on the ads or to visit the advertisers' sites as well as drawing any undue attention to the ads. For example, your site cannot contain phrases such as "click here," "support us," "visit these links," or other similar language that could apply to any ad, regardless of content. These activities are strictly prohibited in order to avoid potential inflation of advertiser costs. In addition, publishers may not bring unnatural attention to sites displaying ads or referral buttons through unsolicited mass emails or unwanted advertisements on third-party websites. Publishers are also not permitted to use deceptive or unnatural means to draw attention to or incite clicks on referral buttons.
Prohibited Clicks and Impressions

Any method that artificially generates clicks or impressions is strictly prohibited. These prohibited methods include but are not limited to: repeated manual clicks or impressions, incentives to click or to generate impressions, using robots, automated click and impression generating tools, or other deceptive software. Please note that clicking on your own ads for any reason is prohibited, to avoid potential inflation of advertiser costs.
2. If YMMSS-Success Through Advertising
is lying about negotiating special commission
rates, the various affiliate networks and
merchant affiliate managers may want to
know.

And of course you have Esto using this as
fodder for the flock to label us as bad guys
again.

Convenient how he neglects to mention that
Success Through Advertising is blatantly
breaking the affiliate terms for companies
like AdSense and Share A Sale. :nono:

[Trinket]

You people just never quit! If you don't want to be associated with YM/STA then get the hell out and let the rest of us move forward with our business. There are MANY, MANY affiliates that believe in our business. We don't need a bunch of small minded trouble-makers trying to spoil a good thing that so many have worked so hard for and waited so LONG for.

What's WRONG with all of you??????? Get a life OUTSIDE of YM/STA and LEAVE US ALONE!!!!!!!!!!1

[bowmaker]

We don't need a bunch of small minded trouble-makers trying to spoil a good thing that so many have worked so hard for and waited so LONG for.




thats the thing . you will always work so hard and you will always be waiting . the waiting will never stop.

[ycchen]

Trinket, welcome back and thanks for keeping the "conversation" going :)

waiting is essential for YM/STA ponzi of this size.

Trinket, I agree with you. Kim and his cronies work very hard to protect themselves and keep as much as possible. They also work very hard to find good lies after lies to force you to continue to wait and feel grateful even after receiving few dollars that will last only for a few weeks.

Please keep the dialogue going and remember to come back after you have finally realized that YMMSS is a scam and you want to do something about.

Our website is set up to provide information, analysis and exchange of ideas about matrix-doubler scam. So far, we have not wrongly accuse a real business as ponzi scam. Ponzi scam comes and go, but MatrixWatch will always be here. Some of our harsh opponents turn to be our friends after the scam dissappear or stop paying for a very long time. Unfortunately, that's usually too late to do anything. :(

YMMSS is not a business, it is a ponzi scam. The more you try to protect "your business" the more you will be dissappointed at the end of the day. Trust us, YMMSS / STA will end, and it will end very soon with the weekly payout drop to the bottom and stop all together. :shake:

[ycchen]

surfer, great info and good practical advice as usual. Thanks! :)

[Dreamer]

Remember, these are supposed to be paid advertisers. Thats what Mike is supposed to have promised. But, these are not paid advertisers. Just another lie to you, as a member, and lies to potential advertisers hoping to show that the site is successful, which it is not.

We dont want to destroy your business. I hope it works out. I hope everybody who put money into ym will get at least their money back. But, thats not going to happen. The truth of the matter is more people will probably be putting more money into the system to try to make more. Its not going to happen.

Its a flawed business model, if you dont want to call it a scam. Every new purchase just devalues existing purchases with no end to it.

Here are 2 problems with your wonderful business:

1. If you believe the cheerleaders, the business your involved is in advertising. Everybody who complains that they lost money in the past 450 days because they havent gotten paid one time are reminded that they didnt lose anything, they bought advertising. If you agree with this logic, then why are these people waisting their time reading ads for 30 minutes a week and not getting paid for it?

If you believe this, then nothing we can do here at MW will make a heck of a difference, since we are not targeting your ads or anything.

2. If the business about getting paid by advertisers, I would be pissed off. All this time and they couldnt find a single paid advertiser? You believe in the business. Good for you. There are alot of people who believe in the business. Good for them. No sarcastic comments here. You know who doesnt believe in the business? The people who run it. With all the delays and broken promises, they are destroying the business. They have like 15,000 people believing in the business, wanting it to work out, and they cant find a single paid advertiser in an advertising business?

[BTCohen]

Hello again

I'm back from much travelling and wanted to post something.

I know a guy who was a top dog with massive retailer (in Europe) and served them for 40 years. If his company were going to advertise online, they would select the medium and go for it. They would not consider this forum worthy of a second look.

I know you guys may think your doing a grand job here, and some of you are in your own way, but mostly these monologues are just rants with a bitter edge!

Put yourself in their shoes (retailers). Sophisticated, rich, hungry - are they really going to listen to the ramblings of some angry ex-member or professional trouble-maker?

I would ask all the usual suspects to bow out and allow YM members to really voice their opinions here.

Is this forum really open and fair. Seems all one sided to me. You are all very quick to critiscise YMForum. There is actually more balance there. I only get zapped once a month on average.

[ycchen]

Hello again

I'm back from much travelling and wanted to post something.

I know a guy who was a top dog with massive retailer (in Europe) and served them for 40 years. If his company were going to advertise online, they would select the medium and go for it. They would not consider this forum worthy of a second look.

I know you guys may think your doing a grand job here, and some of you are in your own way, but mostly these monologues are just rants with a bitter edge!

Put yourself in their shoes (retailers). Sophisticated, rich, hungry - are they really going to listen to the ramblings of some angry ex-member or professional trouble-maker?

I would ask all the usual suspects to bow out and allow YM members to really voice their opinions here.

Is this forum really open and fair. Seems all one sided to me. You are all very quick to critiscise YMForum. There is actually more balance there. I only get zapped once a month on average.Welcome back BTCohen!

Did we delete your post on this forum? ;)

How can we be on-sided if we do not delete post as compare to YMForum? :confused:

[AvidA]

[QUOTE]I know you guys may think your doing a grand job here, and some of you are in your own way, but mostly these monologues are just rants with a bitter edge!

That's only what you think. You're entitled. ;)

Put yourself in their shoes (retailers). Sophisticated, rich, hungry - are they really going to listen to the ramblings of some angry ex-member or professional trouble-maker?

No, and that's why they won't pay any attention to Kim the ex-gifting programer or Mike the unknow fortune 500 company man. :crazy:

[SpidrVII]

I would ask all the usual suspects to bow out and allow YM members to really voice their opinions here.

Is this forum really open and fair. Seems all one sided to me. You are all very quick to critiscise YMForum. There is actually more balance there. I only get zapped once a month on average.

Hi BT,
What are you using to measure the "balance"? I am one of the many who "voiced" my opinion (actually, I stated facts) over at the YM Forums and got banned. I know for a fact that Matrix Watch Forum is more "open and fair" than YM Forums will ever be. We invite all people to come on over and have an opportunity to see what they will never have a chance to see over there. SpidrVII

[Deso]

Hello again

I'm back from much travelling and wanted to post something.

I know a guy who was a top dog with massive retailer (in Europe) and served them for 40 years. If his company were going to advertise online, they would select the medium and go for it. They would not consider this forum worthy of a second look.

I know you guys may think your doing a grand job here, and some of you are in your own way, but mostly these monologues are just rants with a bitter edge!

Put yourself in their shoes (retailers). Sophisticated, rich, hungry - are they really going to listen to the ramblings of some angry ex-member or professional trouble-maker?

I would ask all the usual suspects to bow out and allow YM members to really voice their opinions here.

Is this forum really open and fair. Seems all one sided to me. You are all very quick to critiscise YMForum. There is actually more balance there. I only get zapped once a month on average.

Can you really justify your comment on how a retailer in Europe would just "select his medium and go for it"?
Im in Scotland, a country whose people are probably more famed for looking after its purse strings than any other. Im in business and can assure you that your friend, the top dog in a major retail business would not simply choose his medium and go for it!. That is unless he did not care about his business. If as you say, your friend "went for it" then surely there would be no need for advertising businesses as, by your tone "going for it" would produce the results? We all know this is not the case.
Companies spend many thousands of pounds on advertising and do not spend it without due diligence. If this was the case I would have set up an advertising business years ago.
I think you need to look at the facts surrounding your YMMSS business. You have yet to secure a firm retail advertiser, out of how many businesses there are in the world, surely there is one that would "select his medium and go for it" with STA/YMMSS.. No? .. Well that speaks volumes in itself surely?

[Arzel]

Hello again

I'm back from much travelling and wanted to post something.

I know a guy who was a top dog with massive retailer (in Europe) and served them for 40 years. If his company were going to advertise online, they would select the medium and go for it. They would not consider this forum worthy of a second look.

I know you guys may think your doing a grand job here, and some of you are in your own way, but mostly these monologues are just rants with a bitter edge!

Put yourself in their shoes (retailers). Sophisticated, rich, hungry - are they really going to listen to the ramblings of some angry ex-member or professional trouble-maker?

I would ask all the usual suspects to bow out and allow YM members to really voice their opinions here.

Is this forum really open and fair. Seems all one sided to me. You are all very quick to critiscise YMForum. There is actually more balance there. I only get zapped once a month on average.

Does this "Top Dog" know about YMMSS? Since there have been no verified large outside advertisers this make me wonder about your statement. If he was indeed in the business for 40+ years, you would think that he would still have some influence in his business. I assume this because you speak of him as if you just talked to him.

However, this does not seem to be the case, thus one must assume you are speaking generalities, and not based on specific information of any type, since if you were, your description of YMMSS would most certainly lead to a huge advertising blitz based on your description of this "Top Dog" through his/her current/former company.

If you are going to make stuff up, please be more thoughtful about it.