Update on Lawyer Visit....

[tcb1969a]

Well, I went to the lawyers office today. And I told him what my site was about and about consumer affairs being called on me. Basically he determined that my site and others like it (Matrix sites) are illegal pyramid schemes in the State of Tennessee. He said that I did the right thing taking them down, and that very rarely does consumer affairs continue with investigating or charge anyone who closes down the site after their initial letter. So he said I should be ok, but to keep him in mind in case they do charge me with anything. Also he said they are willing to work with anyone who is trying to make a business like mine find ways of making it work within the law. Also attached is the Tennessee law on Pyramid Schemes as well as illegal lotteries. It is a little vague, but there it is. Also the lawyer I seen on Friday, was unsure that my site was a Pyramid scheme and would check into it cause she was curious. No reply yet from that attorney....

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by tcb1969a
Basically he determined that my site and others like it (Matrix sites) are illegal pyramid schemes in the State of Tennessee.

Also he said they are willing to work with anyone who is trying to make a business like mine find ways of making it work within the law.

When you say "they" are willing.. Who is they? The lawyers or the BBB? Was he a little more specific as to what advice they give to bring it within the parameters of the law?

[tcb1969a]

Sorry, I should have specified. The lawyer said that Consumer Affairs usually is more than willing to assist those who wish to know how to set up something like mine within the laws. He said if I wanted to create something like that in the future, to consult with Consumer Affairs first.....

[sigx97]

....

[concerned]

tcb1969a

You said at one time, and I don't even remember where in the forum, that if they were deemed illegal, you would shut down immediately, which is kind of what you did here, even though you said that you were going to close anyway.

My question to you is this:

Since you have this new experience, and have been told by a lawyer that your site was an illegal pyramid scheme, are you willing to start telling your story to others to convince them to close up as well, so that they don't get into trouble?

If YES, then I'm sure the people here would like to help. At least if they close and give refunds, and just chalk it up to a mistake that you learned a lesson, then they should be OK.

Is NO, then are you saying that the matrix idea is OK, and as long as you are not arrested, and sued, then you support it. You would basically be willing to let others take the fall for your beliefs.

I just wanted to ask that, and get your ideas in light of you new found information.

[sigx97]

ikhglk

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by sigx97
I read the document you attached. Isn't that outdated since 3 or 4 months ago the state re-wrote and ammended that section?

I copied and pasted it from their website......

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by concerned
tcb1969a

You said at one time, and I don't even remember where in the forum, that if they were deemed illegal, you would shut down immediately, which is kind of what you did here, even though you said that you were going to close anyway.

My question to you is this:

Since you have this new experience, and have been told by a lawyer that your site was an illegal pyramid scheme, are you willing to start telling your story to others to convince them to close up as well, so that they don't get into trouble?

If YES, then I'm sure the people here would like to help. At least if they close and give refunds, and just chalk it up to a mistake that you learned a lesson, then they should be OK.

Is NO, then are you saying that the matrix idea is OK, and as long as you are not arrested, and sued, then you support it. You would basically be willing to let others take the fall for your beliefs.

I just wanted to ask that, and get your ideas in light of you new found information.


Actually I already have been telling others that it might be a good idea to shut their sites down.....I just have not said so on here....

Already talking to a site owner in NY.....

[concerned]

Originally posted by sigx97
Lawyers don't make the law. I know a matrix site owner whose lawyer told him that his site is legal. So now we have 2 people in the same profession saying 2 different things. And also if he doesn't want to tell his story then that does not mean what you said above. WOW you people here try to make people look like they say things they haven't.

I didn't say that he IS saying that if he said NO, I said, ARE you saying this. It was a question. Learn to read.

And in response to your post about lawyers NOT making laws, well you are technically wrong. Many of todays politicians are also lawyers. Bill Clinton is one. They were elected into an office where they were making laws. Also, the supreme court is a court where the judges were at one time lawyers. That is how you become a judge. You show your experience within the laws. Every time the supreme court makes a ruling, they make a law. It is called case law.

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by sigx97
Lawyers don't make the law. I know a matrix site owner whose lawyer told him that his site is legal. So now we have 2 people in the same profession saying 2 different things. And also if he doesn't want to tell his story then that does not mean what you said above. WOW you people here try to make people look like they say things they haven't.

Actually one lawyer the other day was 60/40 percent sure that it was an illegal pyramid scheme, but said she would get back to me.....and still hasn't.

Then the one Monday, was 100% sure that it was...an illegal pyramid scheme. That was pretty definate to me. Plus Consumer Affairs had already looked at my site, and felt it necessary to send me a letter about a complaint that mine was a Pyramid scheme, they more than likely would not have sent the letter if they did not feel it was.....Logic would dictate anyways.....

So I am done with the Matrix thing. It is to much of a headache anyways.......

[MatrixWatch]

He is correct that lawyers do not make the laws. Yes, as concerned pointed out, lawyers can eventually get into positions of authority to make laws. However, lawyers are trained to KNOW the laws, and that is what makes this lawyer's legal judgement very trustworthy, especially with the addition of Consumer Affairs' investigation. An analogous situation would be the advice of a doctor. The doctor does not MAKE medicine, he is trained to KNOW medicine though and that makes him a good source of medical advice.

[concerned]

Originally posted by tcb1969a
Actually one lawyer the other day was 60/40 percent sure that it was an illegal pyramid scheme, but said she would get back to me.....and still hasn't.

Then the one Monday, was 100% sure that it was...an illegal pyramid scheme. That was pretty definate to me. Plus Consumer Affairs had already looked at my site, and felt it necessary to send me a letter about a complaint that mine was a Pyramid scheme, they more than likely would not have sent the letter if they did not feel it was.....Logic would dictate anyways.....

So I am done with the Matrix thing. It is to much of a headache anyways.......

Good, glad you got out with not much more than a slap on the hand. I will ask again. Are you now willing to help others get out?

Are you willing to point others to the information that you just received, or are you going to sit back and watch them all get into much more trouble than you were in?

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by concerned
Good, glad you got out with not much more than a slap on the hand. I will ask again. Are you now willing to help others get out?

Are you willing to point others to the information that you just received, or are you going to sit back and watch them all get into much more trouble than you were in?

I believe I already stated on here that I already have pointed others toward the information. One of such is a site owner from NY.....

[tcb1969a]

Also, Concerned.....I am not completely out of the woods yet. I still am waiting on Consumer Affairs to get back to me. They said it could take up to 30 days for them to get back to me.....

[concerned]

Originally posted by tcb1969a
Also, Concerned.....I am not completely out of the woods yet. I still am waiting on Consumer Affairs to get back to me. They said it could take up to 30 days for them to get back to me.....

Well then, let's just hope it is just a slap on the hand.

Also, I don't know if you mentioned this or not.

Were you told by Consumer Affairs to specifically see these lawyers, or did you find them in order to get a lawyer to help defend your cause.

I appologize if you already answered thes.

[Agent|Star]

If these laywers are saying its illegal so fast... Why is the damn ExExpo case taking so long lol...

I think yes we should start making sites more aware of the legal issues behind the system...

Site owners have a few options now. One is to go get some information on their site with laywers within there state and consumer affairs. If they want like TCB mentioned they can work closly with these people toward making a legal form of matrix or they can close shop and start refunding... Both options means A LOT OF MONEY!

Which would you chooose? Hehehe

[northstar5757]

The legal case says its an illegal lottery not a pyramid scam. Personally I thought the lawsuit should have focused on the pyramid structure and not the lottery. But supposedly pyramid schemes are very hard to prosecute. It's also probably easier to get monies back if the site was deemed an illegal lottery. Just my guess.

[Agent|Star]

Working with consumer affairs means your new system will be legal.... I guarentee you make more money out of a businnes that isnt questionable then running a questionable matrix site...

Matrix site owners arent rich or making it rich.. Unles they are scam sites. If you turn around and just refund everyone and drop out of the game you would have lost everything and more... If you work toward something legal you'll work toward gaining right?

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by concerned
Well then, let's just hope it is just a slap on the hand.

Also, I don't know if you mentioned this or not.

Were you told by Consumer Affairs to specifically see these lawyers, or did you find them in order to get a lawyer to help defend your cause.

I appologize if you already answered thes.

Well, I got an attorney to see what Consumer Affairs could do to me, since Consumer Affairs would not elaborate any.....

[tcb1969a]

Originally posted by BigStarr
Working with consumer affairs means your new system will be legal.... I guarentee you make more money out of a businnes that isnt questionable then running a questionable matrix site...

Matrix site owners arent rich or making it rich.. Unles they are scam sites. If you turn around and just refund everyone and drop out of the game you would have lost everything and more... If you work toward something legal you'll work toward gaining right?


Yep, and I will be down a lot of money......since I'm refunding....

[hurley9192]

I just could never see how you could profit much unless you ran it as a true pyramid scheme. Once you start trying to autocycle others, it just cuts deep into your profits.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by northstar5757
The legal case says its an illegal lottery not a pyramid scam. Personally I thought the lawsuit should have focused on the pyramid structure and not the lottery. But supposedly pyramid schemes are very hard to prosecute. It's also probably easier to get monies back if the site was deemed an illegal lottery. Just my guess.


There are Unfair Competition laws set forth in CA law that would hold pay companies accountable for losses of victims, should the case be successful. I believe that more victims would be rewarded under our suit for the illegal lottery allegation, than the pyramid/ponzi allegation. The lawsuit does state that they are running pyramids though in the introduction though.

Also, you were talking about how to make the matrix sites legal. Let's start a new thread for that one. It would be a good debate.

[concerned]

Tcb

I never got to ask you this question. I think you said at one time that you had talked to a lawyer about your sites before you started them. You said that they specialized in MLM businesses. If it wasn't you, then I might have been mistaken.

Here is my questions:

Do they practice law in the same state that you operated your business from?

Did you ever request a refund from them because they gave you BAD legal advise?

Do you plan on reporting them to the Bar Association because of their BAD legal advice?

[tcb1969a]

I don't remember saying that they specialized in MLM. I did consult a lawyer before hand, but it was a free consultation, and seeing how he seemed like he knew what he was talking about and was quite confident, I took him at his word. My mistake obviously. Of course that was awhile back and I don't remember who it was, which is another mistake I made not documenting who I talked to back then. But then again, I didn't know I would got through all of this either......

[concerned]

Thanks.

I think now that I remember, I think it was uwantme had told me about a law firm that specialized in mlm. I am pretty sure it was one of you. You may want to ask her about those people and have them take a look at your case, just to see what they say, unless they charge too much.

By the way, I think since your consultation was free, and you never paid a retainer, even if you had documented what that person had said, they probably would have denied giving you that advice. That is just how most lawyers work. Money talks.

[tcb1969a]

Yep, I agree.....