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ycchen
March 11th, 2006, 08:26 AM
I think it is time to introduce this useful test to determine MLM or pyramid scheme.

Will kanosis pass the 70% test? Nope, because kanosis sells 0% of its coil product to non-members. In other words, kanosis don't even pass 1% test!

http://www.falseprofits.com/Seventypercent.html
Does MLM Pass the 70% Test?

The FTC and Better Business Bureaus warn consumers against falling prey to pyramid schemes masquerading as legitimate MLMs. How are consumers to tell the difference?

"Be cautious of plans that claim you will make money through continued growth of your "downline" - the commissions on sales made by new distributors you recruit - rather than through sales of products you make yourself," said the FTC in its officials warning posted on its website.

But if people followed this admonition very few would ever join an MLM. Marketing literature almost universally emphasizes MLM's unique financial opportunity to earn money by "duplicating yourself" rather than doing all the selling personally. The money in MLM, as anyone who has ever been solicited knows all to well, resides in the downline. Distributor enrollment is the name of this game.

So when does emphasis on building a downline pass from legal to illegal? State court cases are increasingly using one simple standard. [u]It is that the MLM must derive at least 70% of its income from retail sales to non-distributors. If less than 70% of income comes from sales to these non-distributors, the courts have concluded the MLM company is in the business of endlessly recruiting distributors who recruit distributors. In short, they are pyramid schemes, not sales and distribution companies. [/b]

Pyramid schemes are illegal because they cannot mathematically sustain themselves. The system may not necessarily collapse but it can never deliver on its promise of financial success to any but a very few. To remain viable the illicit business must therefore continually replace the financial losers.

This 70% standard was recently applied in four cases in North Carolina prosecuted by the NC Attorney General's Office. NC Assistant Attorney General, Kristine Lanning, calls North Carolina "hostile territory" for pyramid scheme promoters.

The four companies include Club Atlanta Travel, Destiny Telecomm International, Inc., Tele-Card International, and International Heritage, Inc. These four companies had enrolled 40,000 distributors in North Carolina alone. The large number of people enrolled by these lesser known companies in just one state gives some indication of the extent to which MLM is touching people's lives in an illegal manner.

Destiny Telcomm International, as one case in point, is a California company which marketed discount phone cards.

"Upon joining the Destiny Program, each participant purchased at least one Destiny phone card after which they were told they could earn commissions upon the recruitment of other participants," the court document states. Destiny paid its participants on the "binary" compensation plan, a new method gaining popularity among MLM companies.

In the court settlement, Destiny agreed that "at least 70% of all North Carolina sales shall be retail sales to persons who are not connected in any way to the Destiny sales force. The ruling also excluded from the 70% portion sales to individuals who subsequently became Destiny representatives.

Few states are as active in enforcing pyramid scheme laws as North Carolina and even in this state there are limits on the Attorney General's ability to investigate and prosecute MLMs.

Astute readers may already be questioning how Destiny, Tele-Card Network and others are required to prove that 70% of their sales are to non-distributors when other much larger companies acknowledge their sales are well below this standard. Amway, for example, according to its own literature, states that only 18% of its income is from retail sales made to non-Amway distributors.

The uneven application of the law points toward the need for broad and universal federal regulation and oversight of the MLM industry.

sisco50
March 11th, 2006, 10:13 AM
I think it is time to introduce this useful test to determine MLM or pyramid scheme.

Will kanosis pass the 70% test? Nope, because kanosis sells 0% of its coil product to non-members. In other words, kanosis don't even pass 1% test!

http://www.falseprofits.com/Seventypercent.html

I didn't realize Kanosis was selling a product at all but a service billed at $22.00 per month? Isn't it the Coil software that allows use of the service? Maybe I should develope tunnel vision so i can see these things more clearly. :(

Arzel
March 11th, 2006, 02:30 PM
I didn't realize Kanosis was selling a product at all but a service billed at $22.00 per month? Isn't it the Coil software that allows use of the service? Maybe I should develope tunnel vision so i can see these things more clearly. :(

That is a good point.

As I understand Kanosis:

You have membership to Kanosis, which I understand to be the pysical link to their network via a VPN like environment.

COIL is the software which allows you to actually use the environment. Although it is stated you don't need to use COIL to be a member, exactly how this would work is not mentioned, or to that point what it would mean. This is a moot point at this time as you must "buy" the COIL service for a minimum of two months when you register (part of my arguement that they don't sell to anyone outside their own membership).

But you bring up another point. They are not actually selling anything in the sense that you own it. The user is really buying a month to month liecense to use COIL. I don't know what difference this would make, but it is a good point.

ycchen
March 11th, 2006, 09:52 PM
I didn't realize Kanosis was selling a product at all but a service billed at $22.00 per month? Isn't it the Coil software that allows use of the service? Maybe I should develope tunnel vision so i can see these things more clearly. :( I see someone's habit of missing the main point is getting in the way again. I guess we all need to correct our tunnel vision problem. Tell you the truth, I am still waiting for PIPS to come back and pay its member 2% interest per day? :rolleyes:

The main point of the 70% test does not matter if a company is selling a service or product. The main point is that it must sell it to those non-member who just want to use the service (or product) but not joining the pyramid-matrix. The spirit of 70% test is that is that the product/service is valuable and can sustain by its own value without the matrix. Only if that happen, kanosis or any other MLM company can claim that the matrix is only the extra incentive. Got it? ;)

ADD: Kanosis required everyone to be in the matrix in order to use the software. There is no way anyone can use the software without joining the matrix. Correct me if I am wrong about this point.

sisco50
March 12th, 2006, 11:02 AM
I see someone's habit of missing the main point is getting in the way again. I guess we all need to correct our tunnel vision problem. Tell you the truth, I am still waiting for PIPS to come back and pay its member 2% interest per day? :rolleyes:

The main point of the 70% test does not matter if a company is selling a service or product. The main point is that it must sell it to those non-member who just want to use the service (or product) but not joining the pyramid-matrix. The spirit of 70% test is that is that the product/service is valuable and can sustain by its own value without the matrix. Only if that happen, kanosis or any other MLM company can claim that the matrix is only the extra incentive. Got it? ;)

ADD: Kanosis required everyone to be in the matrix in order to use the software. There is no way anyone can use the software without joining the matrix. Correct me if I am wrong about this point.

Your habit of condensension seems to be the main cause of tunnel vision. Maybe you can come down off that high horse long enough to act like you have some sense?

If you are still waiting for PIPS to pay 2% per day you are somewhat of a fool at this point. Last I heard, they were no longer in existence.

Don't remember reading anywhere in these threads that a member must participate in the matrix. Are you telling me that if you buy the service that you must recruit to maintain membership? Please show me that. Or don't. I actually can read for myself and don't need the master of misinformation to point me in the wrong direction. :)

concerned
March 13th, 2006, 01:24 PM
Don't remember reading anywhere in these threads that a member must participate in the matrix. Are you telling me that if you buy the service that you must recruit to maintain membership? Please show me that. Or don't. I actually can read for myself and don't need the master of misinformation to point me in the wrong direction. :)

If you read the Kanosis info, you will see that EVERYONE that buys automatically becomes a member. Therefor 100% of customers are members. What ycchen is saying makes sense. For instance, if I want to buy COIL without anything else, it should not cost the same, because the $22 per month includes other things including the membership. For me, to buy coil, I should get a license to own, and not have to be placed in the pyramid. So, the question is. Can I just buy a copy of COIL?

sisco50
March 13th, 2006, 04:41 PM
"So, the question is. Can I just buy a copy of COIL?"

Don't know. I didn't see anywhere where that is possible or not possible. Why not ask Kanosis?

concerned
March 13th, 2006, 05:58 PM
"So, the question is. Can I just buy a copy of COIL?"

Don't know. I didn't see anywhere where that is possible or not possible. Why not ask Kanosis?

I have. Haven't gotten an answer yet.

ycchen
March 13th, 2006, 10:03 PM
Your habit of condensension seems to be the main cause of tunnel vision. Maybe you can come down off that high horse long enough to act like you have some sense?

If you are still waiting for PIPS to pay 2% per day you are somewhat of a fool at this point. Last I heard, they were no longer in existence.

Don't remember reading anywhere in these threads that a member must participate in the matrix. Are you telling me that if you buy the service that you must recruit to maintain membership? Please show me that. Or don't. I actually can read for myself and don't need the master of misinformation to point me in the wrong direction. :) Could you remind me again about misinformation that I provided on this forum? ;) You should not get too upset about PIPS as it might come back any time. Why don't you stay focus on the PIPS and check every posts that give misinformation on your favorite ponzi site --> PIPS. Sorry, for someone it is not a ponzi, but a legitimate bank loan that fail like any "business" would ... lollollol

Please don't divert the attention away from the thread, thank you.

sisco50
March 14th, 2006, 11:13 AM
Could you remind me again about misinformation that I provided on this forum? ;) You should not get too upset about PIPS as it might come back any time. Why don't you stay focus on the PIPS and check every posts that give misinformation on your favorite ponzi site --> PIPS. Sorry, for someone it is not a ponzi, but a legitimate bank loan that fail like any "business" would ... lollollol

Please don't divert the attention away from the thread, thank you.

I'll try my best to not "divert the attention away from the thread". But if you will check it closely you will find that you brought up pips and such. :) I can deal with jerks just fine, but you lean more to the moronic side. I won't even try to deal with that as it has no place here. But do carry on as it makes for entertaining reading. :)

sisco50
March 14th, 2006, 11:18 AM
I have. Haven't gotten an answer yet.

Ok I will take a look at buying in to see what it is all about. Fairly inexpensive to try it out and may end up worth the money just to take a look. :)