Jim's Statements Contradict themselves [Archive]

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concerned

March 15th, 2006, 03:09 PM

OK

Here is the main problem I have with Jim’s posts here as the relate to the Kanosis MLM.

HIS STATEMENTS ARE INCONSISTANT!!!

Here are some examples of inconsistent statements. While I will not say definitely that Kanosis is a scam because of inconsistent statements, it shows all the characteristics of all the typical pyramid scams we research here at Matrix Watch.

First of all, Jim has been inconsistent about them selling/not selling/distributing/not distributing Coil. Here are statements he has made on our forum about this subject. These quotes show that they are NOT SELLING Coil.

Here Jim says that they ONLY own a license of Coil.
Axiasoft only licenses the “Coil” product to Kanosis.

Here Jim illustrates that they are using Coil under a usage fee. That indicates that they are NOT distributing it.
5. Why is Kanosis charging for beta versions?Because we are charging for the use on non-bete products such as Coil which even under our licensing agreement cost Kanosis usage fees.

In the next three posts, Jim states they are selling a service, NOT COIL.
For at least the tenth time in two days, we are not selling a software package for $260/year at Kanosis, we are selling a service offering that includes the use of the necessary software (in this case “Coil”) for that period of time and the infrastructure that it requires to function.

I would really like to see the product. Where can I pickup the BETA version for free? Oh, that's right. This is the only software in the world where you have to pay to use BETA.
BECAUSE it is not the COIL software we are selling, it is the service offering that uses Coil as an interface…. I just went back and counted, this is the 21st time I have said that in this forum.

Kanosis is not selling Coil.... it is selling a service offering that at the moment only includes Coil as part of the user interface and several other software products that have been heavily customized and integrated to create the Kanosis service product.

OOPS. Now Jim is saying that ARE selling Coil with the Kanosis service.

Coil in the version that is being sold with the initial Kanosis service offering is a superset of a professional services time-accounting system being used by a few law firms. The average cost per seat for time acccounting packages like Coil in the leal industry is sometimes as high as $500/seat.

Next we have a post that contradicts the first few posts. Here is says they have distribution rights. Earlier he said they ONLY own a license. I wonder what it could be?
ycchen,
We did something right, Kanosis bought exclusive new distribution rights to the Coil software from Axiasoft about 2 months ago.

So here are my questions. Why buy the distribution rights, if you are only using a license and subsidizing the cost of the license by charging others?

Why buy the distribution rights of something you are not selling, since you keep claiming you are selling a service?

__________________________

OK. Here are the next contradicting statements I have seen.

We have asked why people are paying to see Coil as a Beta version. Here are the responses.

These two posts here show Jim saying that Kanosis IS BETA but Coil is NOT IN BETA.

The Kanosis system that has been rolled out so far is in-fact a late Beta release of Kanosis but not so for the internal engine of Coil. The look and feel of the Kanosis user interface is being polished with the help of input from our members. Coil itself is a working and production system not a beta. Other enhancements specifically new applications to be added to both systems have been put under contract and are now in the process of being "productized" and integrated into Kanosis in addition to Coil.

In that same post, he says the status of ALL components will remain BETA, which would have to include Coil, since it is a component.

We will leave the status of Beta on all componets in the next few weeks for the user interface and start a series of upgraded product releases, no longer any Beta.

Here’s another post saying Coil is NOT IN BETA.
5. Why is Kanosis charging for beta versions?Because we are charging for the use on non-bete products such as Coil which even under our licensing agreement cost Kanosis usage fees. Coil is not beta as several other software modules integrated into Kanosis are not beta as well.... it is their integration into the Kanosis service offering that is Beta.

These next couple of posts say that Coil IS IN BETA.
By the launch date, also all the different software systems that is now in BETA release, which includes Coil and the personal website builder will all be upgraded to full commercial release to K1.0

This post indirectly shows that Jim is trying to say that Coil is NOT in BETA, but then says that the final version is “being developed.” I guess he doesn’t know that all versions EXCEPT the final versions are BETA versions.

6. Why is there a lack of documentation on the Coil software? because the enterprise versions of Coil are not the final "look" and "feel" of the version that has been being developed for final release with the Kanosis service offering by launch date. The cosmetics and the context sensitive help facilities are being developed as we speak... there is a new version of the Kanosis product being readied now for near future release.

This one is the final nail in the coffin. Jim states here that the software (including Coil) is IN BETA but that the delivery (which they define as the “Kanosis community product”) is NOT IN BETA
Concerned,
Kanosis is selling a service product not just software. In fact the software is only an enabling vehicle to gain access to the other bundled services of Kanosis. So although the software is BETA this week, the service it allows the delivery of is NOT BETA.

That’s funny. I just showed a post above (first one on the Beta subject) that says Kanosis IS IN BETA, but COIL IS NOT IN BETA. Which one is it Jim? Why are you contradicting yourself so much? I think if you didn’t contradict yourself so much, people wouldn’t be so skeptical. Sorry, but this one is leaning over a bit towards the pyramid scheme side. You need to do a better job convincing us this is legitimate, and you have to start by being CONSISTANT.

JimSouthworth

March 15th, 2006, 06:31 PM

Let me start this off real simple... THERE ARE NO INCONSISTANCIES IN MY STATEMENTS ONLY YOUR DESIRE TO TWIST THEM TO YOUR OWN DESIRED RESULT and this is one of the biggest reasons I prefer to take these kinds of questions on the phone even on a conference call with as many people as you like, where the issues can be discussed interactively and these posts not require several hours of interruption of my real work helping you with your witch hunt...... If you are calling me a liar then state such and don't be so gut less to suguar coat it....

Why can't you understand this ??? let try one more time and do it with out your twisting ad taking out of context to suite your own purposes

1.Axisoft NOW already has customers for their existing version of Coil where it is installed and running on stand alone corporate locations having NOTHING to do with Kanosis.... We (Kanosis) have licensed and obtained for some period of time and EXCLUSIVE DISTRIBUTION AGREEMENT for new installtions of Coil PERIOD. Kanosis does not now and does not plan to allow Axisoft to sell the newest versions of Coil to new customers as a stand alone system. REMEMBER and this is important, Coil does not run on stand alone PC systems that are not connected to clusters of servers that are dedicated to just Coil. So to run Coil as a corporate customer even those that have it now, have to spend large sums of money for just the infrastructure alone.

2. Kanosis is and will continue to pay Axisoft a royalty amount for each copy of Coil (read as a User of the Kanosis service) that is used to provide that service. Coil itself is not a Beta product it is in use by Axisoft customers today whom also pay Axisoft a fee per user of their system.

3. As I consistantly have said, Coil is a tool only and one of several that are part of the Kanosis service..... all of these tools are not BETA they are all production software.... when we put these tools together and make them work with each other that initial integration has been Beta, but NOT for much longer... Our new web-site went live today, our new Kanosis financed and released version of Coil that has been improved for us by its owner and authors at Axisoft will be deployed in the next few weeks as well. It will be a new version and release, not a beta.

There is no inconsistancy in any of the above if you understand software as you claim to..... or did you ever claim to ??? Oops maybe that why you don't get it !!!

OK

Here is the main problem I have with Jim’s posts here as the relate to the Kanosis MLM.
<Snip> These quotes show that they are NOT SELLING Coil.

Here Jim says that they ONLY own a license of Coil.

Here Jim illustrates that they are using Coil under a usage fee. That indicates that they are NOT distributing it.

In the next three posts, Jim states they are selling a service, NOT COIL.

<snip>
So here are my questions. Why buy the distribution rights, if you are only using a license and subsidizing the cost of the license by charging others?

Why buy the distribution rights of something you are not selling, since you keep claiming you are selling a service?

now this may be really hard for you to understand so I will put this in bigger type (are you blond? never-mind) (my apologies, I shouldn't cheapen my response by playing the game by your rules)

Kanosis like many companies whom don't wish to inadvertently create and allow a competitor to duplicate the unique aspects of our services (especially after financing the enhancements we just did) maintains the EXCLUSIVE DISTRIBUTION RIGHTS FOR THIS SOFTWARE so it won't be sold to anybody else except us so we don't have to worry. Plus, it puts a greater value into Kanosis for its membership, the private owners, and those new prospects to whom the Kanosis service will be and is being sold.

Now I hope that was clear enough and would you at least try to keep this in one thread !!! I don't have the time to take on all twelve of you and maintain multiple threads, so I will just have to let this thread fall to side after this post... I'm over on the other one if you need me further.....

What really impresses me is how much time you took putting together this exercise in futillity that you could have completely avoided with a 5 minute phone call as many of our prospects and existing members have done by calling me direct.... But I guess that wouldn't have allowed you to slander our business opportunity as you wish to apparently......

concerned

March 15th, 2006, 07:15 PM

Let me start this off real simple... THERE ARE NO INCONSISTANCIES IN MY STATEMENTS ONLY YOUR DESIRE TO TWIST THEM TO YOUR OWN DESIRED RESULT

So you are telling us all that you DIDN'T say it WAS Beta, and then later said it WASN'T beta? I don't know how you can say it isn't inconsistant, when I never twisted your words, I simply compiled them and posted them together showing you saying 2 completely different things. Let the public judge them for themselves.

We (Kanosis) have licensed and obtained for some period of time and EXCLUSIVE DISTRIBUTION AGREEMENT for new installtions of Coil PERIOD. Kanosis does not now and does not plan to allow Axisoft to sell the newest versions of Coil to new customers as a stand alone system.

Well, this is new to me. I can honestly say that this simple fact makes me not ever want to use Coil. If Axisoft is going to allow Kanosis to dictate what they do with the software they create, then I would have to say that they are the dumbest group of business people on earth. Why would I want to trust software from a company that doesn't have the rights to sell it? If they did not allow themselves to have other distribution outlets, then they are a business I would not want to be associated with, ever.

REMEMBER and this is important, Coil does not run on stand alone PC systems that are not connected to clusters of servers that are dedicated to just Coil. So to run Coil as a corporate customer even those that have it now, have to spend large sums of money for just the infrastructure alone.

I don't think anyone is arguing this. It still doesn't answer why you won't sell it to me, even though you say you have the EXCLUSIVE rights. I would think Axiasoft wants you to sell stand alone copies, so that they can get their cut. You need to quit worrying about my infrastructure. If I want to buy the software, why would you want to stop me from doing that, and spending the money for my equipment? It seems stupid to tell me you won't sell it to me because the infrastructure costs are too high. That is the customer's decission, not yours.

There is no inconsistancy in any of the above if you understand software as you claim to..... or did you ever claim to ??? Oops maybe that why you don't get it !!!

It doesn't matter what my knowledge of software is. What I have posted is statements that contradict eachother, all from your fingertips. When you say that Coil is in BETA, and then later say that it is NOT in BETA, even someone that has never used a computer would know that those statements contradict themselves. I didn't twist your words, I just posted them.

Now, your post above might be informational to some, but you still didn't answer anything this post has to ask. The main question is:

WHY DO YOUR STATEMENTS CONTRADICT EACHOTHER? You never stated why those statements DON'T contradict themselves.

emanuel

March 15th, 2006, 07:19 PM

mpatient24

March 27th, 2006, 04:48 PM

WHY DO YOUR STATEMENTS CONTRADICT EACHOTHER? You never stated why those statements DON'T contradict themselves.

I didn't see his statements as contradictory. What I saw was somebody reading certain ones out of context and confusing the information.

mpatient24

March 27th, 2006, 04:50 PM

I have given you a couple weeks like you asked me Jim
Is Canada Licensed yet for business with Kanosis
I can not find any registration. What Lawryer firm are
you using in Canada.

What is your federal registration number and what is the
Legal name of the registration In Canada

Thanks

emanuel, I think Jim said he'd no longer be posting in this thread. He will be continuing to read the Kanosis Part 2 thread if you want to post your question there, as he doesn't have time to be in 5 different threads that are all going at once.

concerned

April 7th, 2006, 10:37 PM

3. As I consistantly have said, Coil is a tool only and one of several that are part of the Kanosis service..... all of these tools are not BETA they are all production software.... when we put these tools together and make them work with each other that initial integration has been Beta, but NOT for much longer... Our new web-site went live today, our new Kanosis financed and released version of Coil that has been improved for us by its owner and authors at Axisoft will be deployed in the next few weeks as well. It will be a new version and release, not a beta.

Here we go again. Another statement that contradicts, but this time, Jim contradicts the marketing materials that Kanosis the company is putting out.

On another post on this thread, Arzel posted a pdf file that is Kanosis' marketing material. You can find the file here:

http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?p=38935#post38935

As you can plainly see, on page 14, it states:

You now will have the ability
to log into the Beta version of the Coil software, access the Member area, invite others via
email and build your personal web space.

Jim, just face it. I am posting facts, and you words. I am not twisting them at all. And please, don't give anyone else any credit for the work I am doing. I am finding all your lies, and you don't like it, so you attach Ferret and I.

vliscony

April 8th, 2006, 08:39 AM

Webwatch

April 8th, 2006, 09:27 AM

concerned writes:
Jim, just face it. I am posting facts, and you words. I am not twisting them at all. And please, don't give anyone else any credit for the work I am doing. I am finding all your lies, and you don't like it, so you attach Ferret and I.
---------------

This whole discussion results from looking from the outside in and guessing around. It is a fight over words not substance.

Yes, Kanosis calls the current version of COIL a beta, since it is not feature complete relative to what they plan to roll out May 1st. So rather than argue, wait till May 2nd and we'll see the difference between the Beta Version and the final version.
Meanwhile the facts clearly are that Kanosis does not sell software but service, and COIL is the central software building block to that service. People are free to join now or later, based on if they're interested in the marketing of it or only the using of it. If your interest is in marketing it as well as using it, well then you would say, OK, let's find out now, and get ready, if you only want to use it, perhaps you would rather wait until you can see the final product. For the rest I don't understand why people would want to waste their time complaining about something they don't want to use in the first place. That's what a lot of this discussion seems to be.

Hello Vliscony,
I agree that just debating Coil and whether it is Beta or a finished version maybe not that essential but just a natural sub plot to the whole Kanosis Pyramid scheme discussion.
Regarding it being a waste of time I dont think thats the case as due to the prescence of Jim Southworth in these debates many questions hopefully have been raised and answered.

I wont side track the thread to much by discussing why I believe Kanosis is at the moment nothing more than a Pyramid Scheme as I have done that enough already and all the downline builders on other forums are proving my argument for me.

However one thing that has come to light through all the Kanosis threads is that Kanosis have acted on some of our reccomendations and those bought up by new members to add or change certain sign up options albeit with varying degrees of clarity. The next change i would like to see is for the members to get more commision for their individual sign ups and not just 5% ($1.10). I would reccomend 20% ($4.40 per individual sign up) and also a range of products which can be bought by end users without obligation or commitment to join the matrix, this may come in time if Kanosis is serious about its future which I am starting to think maybe the case.

One thing is becoming clear is that the biggest threat to Kanosis's survival is not this forum but the habitual ponzi players who are dragging the Kanosis's name through the mud in order to build a downline, maybe I'm wrong and the threat is small but if in the coming months I see any complaints that Kanosis have not supplied the incredible potential income that many habitual players believe and advertise it will I will certainly highlight this point.

vliscony

April 8th, 2006, 11:10 AM

I agree with you on many points.

I think the preponderance of the evidence shows that Kanosis management is totally serious, and have made a deliberate decision to leverage this multi-level compensation concept to their best advantage. I think it is the only way to succeed in this market place. They have also made it clear in many ways that they are doing everything they can to conduct business in a legally sound manner. No business was ever launched where adjustments were not made along the way, so that part is normal.
Finally I do agree with you that some of the behavior of members can reflect badly on the company, and if false claims are being promoted and the company does not take a proactive attitude about that, this is likely to come back to haunt them. So I hope for them, and for anyone who decides to join, that the company will not let things get out of control. Kanosis does not cure warts, nor will it make you a millionnaire. It could make you some money however, and if the services lives up to its billing a lot of people will make some money with it... yours truly included.

Arzel

April 8th, 2006, 01:42 PM

JimSouthworth

April 8th, 2006, 07:10 PM

<snip>

Jim, just face it. I am posting facts, and you words. I am not twisting them at all. And please, don't give anyone else any credit for the work I am doing. I am finding all your lies, and you don't like it, so you attach Ferret and I. So now you are attributing statements made in NON-Kanosis sanctioned and edited documents to us as well..... I was in contact with your associate on this since I had never seen it anywhere in the company and he found it on a German site..... not one of ours.... but to be fair a lot of the content is accurate, just not the stuff you just made a fool of yourself by high-lighting... so I guess this makes you the liar by distorting facts again to fit you own means.... try asking instead of be so hell-bent on accusing..... this breakdown in discussion is from your attitude, try growing up....

Webwatch

April 10th, 2006, 05:42 AM

So now you are attributing statements made in NON-Kanosis sanctioned and edited documents to us as well..... I was in contact with your associate on this since I had never seen it anywhere in the company and he found it on a German site..... not one of ours.... but to be fair a lot of the content is accurate, just not the stuff you just made a fool of yourself by high-lighting... so I guess this makes you the liar by distorting facts again to fit you own means.... try asking instead of be so hell-bent on accusing..... this breakdown in discussion is from your attitude, try growing up....Jim this isn't one of the threads I normally post in so please dont consider me on the attack. In order to stay abreast of how Kanosis develops this document shows how downline building hype can separate itself from the official Kanosis company and lead many to believe that Kanosis is nothing more than a Pyramid scheme.
I find it a bit hard to believe that a document of this quality has not been passed by Kanosis, but as you say it is mostly accurate apart from the points discussed here, maybe it is justs a document that has slipped through without being given the full Kanosis approval.
It may have been produced by a rogue member of Kanosis who is at the very bussom of the Kanosis community and has not passed this document on for sanctioning as official by the Kanosis Founders.

If Kanosis do have an official marketing document is it possible to have a copy posted so we can see have the two documents differ and which one is brest for referal to.

Reading this thread I can understand how you feel provoked into taking an aggresive stance on this but please keep the personnal attacks out of the thread using expressions like liar and the FKIA referal on the other thread are not acceptable and may come back to haunt you.

I can imagine how excited you must have felt when you found out the document was not official Kanosis material and it was an opportunity to rack up a few points in the Kanosis discussion, but please watch your back as you may only be getting fed little titbits of information from those above you that know you post here.

JimSouthworth

April 10th, 2006, 06:28 AM

Jim this isn't one of the threads I normally post in so please dont consider me on the attack. In order to stay abreast of how Kanosis develops this document shows how downline building hype can separate itself from the official Kanosis company and lead many to believe that Kanosis is nothing more than a Pyramid scheme.
I find it a bit hard to believe that a document of this quality has not been passed by Kanosis, but as you say it is mostly accurate apart from the points discussed here, maybe it is justs a document that has slipped through without being given the full Kanosis approval.
It may have been produced by a rogue member of Kanosis who is at the very bussom of the Kanosis community and has not passed this document on for sanctioning as official by the Kanosis Founders.The term Rogue is probably too strong, but it did come from a very well positioned member of Kanosis whom obviously has some deep and excellent skills, HOWEVER in its present form it was neither sanctioned nor approved before it ended up on the web... Infact you can notice the copyright is not ours.... IT IS BEING FIXED and corrected as we speak here so they can have it for their use by May 1st Launch date.

If Kanosis do have an official marketing document is it possible to have a copy posted so we can see have the two documents differ and which one is best for referal to.I will arrange that in next few days.... it may be as simple as pointing you to the new public information documents that are being loaded on the website this week. Reading this thread I can understand how you feel provoked into taking an aggresive stance on this but please keep the personnal attacks out of the thread using expressions like liar and the FKIA referal on the other thread are not acceptable and may come back to haunt you. The Term "liar" only came up because it was used to describe me by one of your associates.... and then found in the post by one of my children who have been following these threads. That escalated my frustration and anger with only a couple of you here at MW. The term FKIA was actually used on a consultant's business card at the US Secret Service Cyber-Crime group, only in his case he was qualified to use it.

I can imagine how excited you must have felt when you found out the document was not official Kanosis material and it was an opportunity to rack up a few points in the Kanosis discussion, but please watch your back as you may only be getting fed little titbits of information from those above you that know you post here.I am in meetings daily with the entire management team here in Cyprus at our new HQ building. I now have content review on all such documents since they intimately affect my technical operations responsibilities here at Kanosis. The fervour of our membership to sell and use the next generation of our service product is beyond anything I have ever experienced. Our legal team and marketing/customer service teams are running at full tilt to make our launch on schedule with just the internal business readiness. But there is still massives amount of money and effort being expended to control the rogue aspects whom may think they know how a MLM of our type has to be run to operate legally and profitably. After the flood gates open on May 1st the growth should be extreme. Technically it is a challenge, but we will make it happen.

Webwatch

April 10th, 2006, 07:43 AM

The Term "liar" only came up because it was used to describe me by one of your associates.... and then found in the post by one of my children who have been following these threads. That escalated my frustration and anger with only a couple of you here at MW. The term FKIA was actually used on a consultant's business card at the US Secret Service Cyber-Crime group, only in his case he was qualified to use it.Thanks for the history of the abbreviation, that carries no weight with me unless this is just a joke business card (similar to large breasted ladies on the front of Some Holiday Postcards).
This level of maturity does nothing more than illustrate why the internet is still an unpoliceable breeding ground for scam's and confidence tricksters and the work of Matrixwatch has only just begun.

Apologies for going off topic:)

concerned

April 13th, 2006, 06:10 PM

try asking instead of be so hell-bent on accusing.....

I do keep asking, but I keep getting different answers every time.

Thanks for the info on the document not being official. It leads to another good point though. Somehow, the information is being distorted not only to the members of this forum, but to your very own customers. Obviously this document was created by a customer that must have been given the wrong information, cause you are so hell bent on saying it is NOT beta. So, either way, either you or someone else in your "company" is spreading false information. You can't both be right. It just shows how information will be told falsely to make a sale in these schemes.

JimSouthworth

April 14th, 2006, 03:49 AM

<SNIP>Thanks for the info on the document not being official. It leads to another good point though. Somehow, the information is being distorted not only to the members of this forum, but to your very own customers. Obviously this document was created by a customer that must have been given the wrong information, cause you are so hell bent on saying it is NOT beta. So, either way, either you or someone else in your "company" is spreading false information. You can't both be right. It just shows how information will be told falsely to make a sale in these schemes.There is a third alternative..... We have some amazingly aggressive and intelligent customers/members who are going to use every creative bone in their body to sell.... this document for example has now been addressed and is being heavily modified to become compliant with our corporate guidelines and factual content, not just the "hype" and old content they used from a previous company's document they modified.... if you check out our latest web site modifications later today, you will see more of the transition which even incorporates more of the guidance we have received from your team here on MW. Not all that has been suggested, but much more than probably you have gotten from any other company you have had a dialog with. We REALLY are trying to clean up and use this MLM approach for the purposes I have stated.

In two more weeks nothing is "Beta"... the new Kanosis interface and newly customized version of Coil go on-line May 1st..... I'm on my way back to Virginia from Cyprus with both additional software and equipment in transit to bring up our next super node cluster which we have been testing in Cyprus.

OBTW, thanks for discussing it this way without a negative tone.......

concerned

April 17th, 2006, 12:23 PM

There is a third alternative..... We have some amazingly aggressive and intelligent customers/members who are going to use every creative bone in their body to sell....

I think you have completely missed the point. There cannot be a third alternative. Either someone at Kanosis is telling lies, or the person who created the document is telling a lie. You can't have both statements and say that they are both true. That is why this thread was started in the first place. No matter how you spin it, there is some lies being told to represent Kanosis. That is unethical, and you seem to condone it.

JimSouthworth

April 17th, 2006, 01:27 PM

I think you have completely missed the point. There cannot be a third alternative. Either someone at Kanosis is telling lies, or the person who created the document is telling a lie. Why is there no third alternative??? ONLY because YOU take the pompous position that there can’t be an in-between position and every thing is “black or white”. The material shown here IS NOT and WAS not created by, edited, or ever condoned by Kanosis. Steps have been taken to get it fixed and make it accurate, as I said before, so that makes it grey, Some of the better written descriptions are absolutely accurate, just not the really key MLM aspects.You can't have both statements and say that they are both true. That is why this thread was started in the first place. The only reason you PERSONALLY created this thread was to attack my personal credibility (it’s in the title and even you can’t miss that) and to specifically call me a liar to try to discredit me, probably because I WAS answering tons of questions from all of the members of your team and numerous others who have posted here or called me personally. I have NOT addressed all questions for good solid business reasons, BUT most have been answered even if you don’t like the answers because they don’t help you condemn our business. And any of the third party observers that have visited this thread and then called me on the phone have consistently asked WHY you have such a predisposition to attack me beyond the scope of the business case of Kanosis… Is it because you can’t figure it out that we are being honest and forthright?? And it might just be that we don’t fit your previous models of businesses that have used a “forced matrix”?? No matter how you spin it, there is some lies being told to represent Kanosis. That is unethical, and you seem to condone it. We DO NOT CONDONE these misrepresentations and never will and we have shut down numerous and will continue to do such, but you don’t see those, intentionally(that’s the whole idea). AND We have only just begun to get as aggressive in enforcement as we will be post launch, but only because of the limited resources while we have been hiring, training and preparing new personnel for our May 1st launch at both our headquarters in Cyprus and California (10 hours “wall clock” apart for good customer support reasons).

concerned

April 17th, 2006, 02:33 PM

Why is there no third alternative??? ONLY because YOU take the pompous position that there can’t be an in-between position and every thing is “black or white”. The material shown here IS NOT and WAS not created by, edited, or ever condoned by Kanosis.

Because the options are:

Kanosis lied to the person who made the marketing document.

The person who made the document lied.

Remember, you state that it is NOT in BETA, and the document states that it IS in BETA.

Now, from that set of facts, please tell me how your third option fits in? Where is the in between position? I don't know if you are aware of this, but Yes/No questions are ALWAYS black and white. When I ask if Coil is BETA, and you say no, and someone else says Yes, can you please tell me how you both can be right, and how there can be a gray area here?

Remember, your third option is:

We have some amazingly aggressive and intelligent customers/members who are going to use every creative bone in their body to sell....

Now, if you are calling this person creative, and you stated that Coil it NOT in BETA, and this person says it is, then you are CONDONING his lies. Otherwise, if you told the lie about the BETA, and he is telling the truth, then how can you say he is creative when all he is doing is telling the truth.

Remember, this is about the lie being told. Like I said, someone said it IS in BETA, and someone else said it ISN'T in BETA. Which is it? how can both be right?

emanuel

April 17th, 2006, 03:13 PM

Hey Jim

Several weeks ago you said that Canada was being licensed.
I checked yesterday and there still is no license in Canada and
you are taking application for members in Canada with a American
agrement which is Illegal in Canada.:shake:

Why are you allowing Canadians to sign up without being licensed.

I asked you this a few weeks back and you said that you were
going to get a answer.:flame:

Thanks

Arzel

April 17th, 2006, 03:55 PM

There is a third alternative..... We have some amazingly aggressive and intelligent customers/members who are going to use every creative bone in their body to sell.... this document for example has now been addressed and is being heavily modified to become compliant with our corporate guidelines and factual content, not just the "hype" and old content they used from a previous company's document they modified.... if you check out our latest web site modifications later today, you will see more of the transition which even incorporates more of the guidance we have received from your team here on MW. Not all that has been suggested, but much more than probably you have gotten from any other company you have had a dialog with. We REALLY are trying to clean up and use this MLM approach for the purposes I have stated.

In two more weeks nothing is "Beta"... the new Kanosis interface and newly customized version of Coil go on-line May 1st..... I'm on my way back to Virginia from Cyprus with both additional software and equipment in transit to bring up our next super node cluster which we have been testing in Cyprus.

OBTW, thanks for discussing it this way without a negative tone.......

Concerned is correct about this matter. There is no third alternative.

This document quotes the lead programmer (Steve Van Zutphen ) of COIL in it's statement that COIL is beta. Either that statement is true or it is not true.

Ergo, the only alternatives are that Steve Van Zutphen actually made that statement, or some members have lied and he did not actually make that statement.

To be completely honest I don't know why you are still debating this issue. There is no reason for any member to make up this statement, and does them no benefit to make such a statement, thus one must conclude that Steve did state that COIL is still beta, or at least was at that time.

In any case I am glad that Kanosis is working to eliminate mis-information being spread by members.