Clarify Please!

[spectre]

As I reviewed this thread:

http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4090#post4090

While we are talking about this, it occured to me that I'm unclear on what makes a site be classified as a "scam" or a "scavenger", or whatever. Who's definition of a "higher walk of life" are we talking about? These are terms being used in that particular thread.

Is it Watchdog's quest to go after anything that appears to be a lottery, or lottery like? How about sweepstakes, casino gambling, etc. ? Are these activities inherently evil and worthy of attention as well, legal or otherwise? If its presently legal or found to be legal will the next step be to lobby to make it illegal?

In other words, is it the legality being questioned so much as the morals of those that participate (in any fashion)? Or is the objective to save people from themselves and their own mistakes...

Just curious. Does anybody know the answer to this. Perhaps its been discussed before...

Consumer advocacy is one thing, but self-righteous crusading is something else. I'd like to know whats involved here.

I'd appreciate anybody's input on this.

[Arzel]

First point regarding lotteries and sweepstakes. A sweepstake is a type of lottery, so they are really covered under the same umbrela.

Lotteries and sweepstakes are not inherently illegal. We generally hear of sweepstakes with free entry type events, such as the Publishers Clearing House Sweepstakes. And we generally hear of Lotteries with regards of state lotteries by which you pay for an entry, but the aspect of money is irelevent, the separation between the two has more to do with how a winner is selected.

Lotteries and Sweepstakes are generally not illegal if no purchase is required to take part of the game, and as in PCH that aspect must be clearly specified (they have been sued in the past because of this reason).

Lotteries and Sweepstakes which require a purchase, such as the Powerball, are regulated by the states which allow them, and fall under the various state gaming laws regarding gambling and casinos. Although I feel that these games tend to act as a tax against those least able to aford them, they are legal, and not part of our focus. The general concensus is that they are a good way to generate governmental income without raising other taxes.

The illegal aspect comes with the purchase of tickets. It has been deemed illegal to mail or other wise trasmit lottery tickets acrros state lines when a purchase is required, the law is quite clear on this. This does not cover and idividual going across a state line, making a purchase, and then crossing back, that is legal.

pricerightauctions appears to be a lottery because there is chance involved, and you are required to pay to play. The actual ticket (in this case a charge for auction services) does not have to be a phsyical ticket. Anything which acts as a ticket constitutes a ticket. Because pricerightauctions is located in FL and does not discriminate against the purchase of "tickets" from other states this would constitute the transmitting of lottery tickets across state lines, which is a felony.

Gtranted, pricerightauctions does appear to be very legal in it's description of how it works, and that it is licenced and monitored by the state of FL. This does not mean that it is legal, and that they are telling the truth. If this is deemed legal, then that is fine by me, but given the variety of scams in the world, I think it deserves a little research.

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by spectre
... is it the legality being questioned so much as the morals of those that participate (in any fashion)? Or is the objective to save people from themselves and their own mistakes...

Consumer advocacy is one thing, but self-righteous crusading is something else. I'd like to know whats involved here.


Very good question. This has been on my mind lately, especially as I think "What next?". Your question really goes deep, and I would appreciate if you let me think through our short history to find the answer.

The bottom line is that I started Matrix Watch to inform people. I was involved with EzExpo for a little bit, and then I found out about the forums. As I read through the posts on the 4 or 5 major forums I noticed that those who moderated the forums were personally involved in the matrix sites. The bummer about this was that whenever someone questioned the legitimacy of the matrix model, they were banned and their posts were removed. This frustrated me. Everyone was talking about the new sites opening, or new ideas for auto-cycling, or how many matrix lists they were on and that they needed help to cycle. Remember those days everyone? Well, beneath all of this EzExpo was crumbling, and I decided to look into the historical threads from last year and see what was going on then. I found that the same enthusiasm that people had for EzExpo then was the same everyone had for the new sites. Why wasn't everyone raving about EzExpo anymore? I concluded that it was because of how old they were, and that many matrix sites would share their same fate. I know that these matrix sites would likely collapse at the same time and that if someone did not do anything then all those people would be left in the tire tracks.

I started my own MSN forum called Matrix Watch, and my initial purpose was to discuss the details of my new lawsuit against EzExpo, and raise questions to the matrix-marketing model. I wanted to do more than MSN enabled me to do, so I bought the .org domain and launched this site. There was not a single "hub" where the inquisitive minds and dissenters could talk to site owners one on one, so this became the place to be. I had no stake in the matrix sites, so all of those banned forum members found refuge here.

Now, to address your question.. If my goal is to help the people, should that help be offered before the scam takes them, or afterward? I find it difficult to answer this one. Sure, I could help them afterward, and possibly help them to get some/all of their money back. However, I could help them before the scam artists take off with the money. Either way, we can help someone, but if we can do it before the fact then we can sometimes help them "more". If anything, we can nab the operators of the scam before they run. However, where do we draw the line? Do we go so far as to lobby? This is your question. This is my question. This is the question that the U.S. Attorney General is beginning to answer for himself. This is the question that just about everyone here has asked themselves, and many have drawn the "line of legitimacy" at different places in the sand. To tell you the truth, I am still looking for the answer. I just don't like seeing people cheated though.