The Believers Trust/Baby PIPS ? - Come November [Archive]

Believer

August 26th, 2006, 11:35 AM

Webwatch, I understand your concern, but if you will note, the benefactor and the stipulations of the trust says to REWARD a specific type of individual with a specific type spirit.

The proposed plan is to turn 'skeptics' into givers with a specific spirit. I don't know how else to explain it to the hyipers without getting negative comments.

By first giving away money to anyone that wants it is our intent. As well as proving to the the trust that anyone making a deposit is doing it to help a needy person registered with the trust. The trust will not give to the needy person, but will reward anyone who gives to the needy person at 100% of what was given and a 50% reward over a specific term.

I have the obligation to give away funds from the trust, but where can you find someone that is giving to others so they can be rewarded.

I can not help what others say or think about the benefactor's stipulations. I only mention them as clarification and to give FULL DISCLOSURE before anyone makes a deposit into the FUTURE PLAN. If it is not opened as scheduled, the $50 credits will be paid without fail regardless. My responsibility is to give away the money. $10K has been set aside as free money to be given away between now and November. If I can give it away, so much the better, if not, I will have done my best.

CLARIFICATION:

Maybe this will help you understand my position:

The Believers Trust holds earnings from an investment of $500K placed by a very kind and good hearted individual. Those earnings are to be given to a specific type individual with a giving spirit as a reward for their giving spirit.

This is not my specifications, but the benefactors specifications. I'm only trying to find that type individual and specifically trying to turn hyipers into that type individual and give proof to the trust that they fit the profile so they can receive the REWARD. Maybe I'm not explaining my situation clearly.

Where I live in Philadelphia, Mississippi, an office will be opened to help the widows and orphans and anyone else with DESPIRATE needs. The money will be given away that is earned on a monthly basis from the $500K investment owned by the benefactor, and this will be without them making a deposit as with a hyip plan that we propose. THAT'S A FACT!

Funds will also be given to others that find out about the trust through my efforts on the web. I see so much scamming, and wanted to be the first to pre-earn profits and let the member hold his principal and earnings for the term of the plan. Of course, a deposit will have to be made for the term of 60 or 90 days, but since pre-earnings have already been made, the full 150% (principal PLUS 50% profit) could be sent to the member within a few days after the deposit was made and he/she could hold the funds for the term of 60 to 90 days. We need 10 days to prove to the trust the member was a specific type individual - a giver. This can be done because we will have already used the seed capital and generated pre-earned profits and have them on hand ready for disbursement.

I need your comments either good, bad or indifferent so I can determine if I am wasting my time trying to help hyipers. I do know one thing, those that make a request for the $50 credit will be allowed to participate should the plan not materalize for the hyiper arena.

I'm not trying to spam a board to find people to GIVE AWAY MONEY to, I'm not going to seek out depositors either. I have an obligation to fulfill on behalf of the benefactor and by posting here, I am trying to help others that have been scammed. This board just happened to be where I could find thousands of such people who have lost money.

Since the forum allows me to post the URL to the site, I believe it will help with understanding what is proposed as well as why I posted.

I am the Signatory Authority over The Believers Trust and it holds funds to be given away come November. One way or another, I am going to give those funds away, you can get your share, or not apply for any share. There is NO OBLIGATION on your part; however, I only have $10K that I can give away in this arena at $50 per individual.

Please read the URL that is given for information ONLY, and you will not find any way to make a deposit therefore, you can not be scammed - now can you?

Please help me by making comments. I'm not good at this, and I can see that trying to give away money is harder than pulling hen's teeth. I might as well be promoting a scam of some kind as I receive the same negative comments as those who do.

I'll use this thread ONLY to answer questions. I'm not trying to spam a forum that was set up for another purpose.

Bless you,

Believer

August 26th, 2006, 12:00 PM

Welcome to Matrix Watch Believer.

Are you admin for Baby Pips or are
you just one of the early promoters?

And since this is an investment
program targeting U.S. citizens,
when will we see the proper
filings with the SEC?

Thank you for the welcome;

No, I'm not the admin of Baby Pips, although I keep the web pages up for several groups of which BP is one. The are the entity that found the client with the $500K which is in trade. The profits are in excess of 25% per month, but that is what is alloted for this project.

It's not an investment on anyone's part that participates, so the SEC is not involved. All I have to do is prove to the trust that anyone that does make a deposit is giving to a needy person which we pass the funds on to after expenses and the trust then gives back the deposit PLUS 50%. We have a term of 60 days for anyone in the US and 90 days for anyone outside the US.

It is my responsibility to find a way to give the funds to others outside my home town. That has proven to be a real problem.

Gringo

August 26th, 2006, 12:29 PM

One of the questions from your site:Question: What type trading is involved?
Answer: PST -

Exactly what is "PST"?

$500K provided Baby Pips from a client will be used to grow at 25% per monthThere is no risk free investment that will produce 25% per month return.

Of course, a deposit will have to be made for the term of 60 or 90 days, but since pre-earnings have already been made, the full 150% (principal PLUS 50% profit) could be sent to the member within a few days after the deposit was made and he/she could hold the funds for the term of 60 to 90 days. We need 10 days to prove to the trust the member was a specific type individual - a giver. Pure BS:
1. Sending money to a so called guaranteed investment that will return 150% doesn't prove the person is a "giver". It proves that someone wants to make a quick buck. Nothing wrong with making a quick buck, but the whole premiss of this convoluted scheme is silly. That premiss, "send us your money to show you are worthy of our benevolence" is clearly a scam.

2. People that are benevolent, "givers" want to give not receive. If you want to contribute to charity, there are plenty of legitimate organizations out there. Why create a scheme in which people have to send you money to prove they are worthy of receiving charity unless the purpose is to eventually steal their money?

In late 2005, a client came to us that had sufficient funds to enter into an offshore program and gave us instructions to utilize the proceeds of the investment as a "reward" for a select type of individual or group for doing a specific deed. Nonsense. The client could simply do this themselves directly. No need to give you the money, then have you create this bogus "qualification" of making people send you their money to prove they are worthing of being rewarded.

There is a secret world of money that ONLY a small fraction of Americans are aware exists. But, today with the "information age" upon us and the Internet, one can search out and find the "rest of the story" about these type programs where fortunes are made. The rest of the story is that the fortunes are being made by the promoters of bogus hyips.
High yielding programs exist and flourish mostly outside the USA, and it's illegal for the US citizens to participate in them.Not true. Any US citizen can invest/spend their money in anything they want onshore or off. Securities/investments that are advertised in the US must comply with the rules and regulations of the SEC.

However, they have to exist in order for the feds to surface the US dollar that has found it's way offshore and bring it back into the United States. By offering "foreigners" high yielding programs with returns unimaginable by the US Citizen, dollars are exchanged for other currency within the program and the usd is returned to the United States.
Convoluted nonsense.

surfer

August 26th, 2006, 12:37 PM

:rolleyes:

A couple simple questions to start.

If they are just going to give away
$50 for making a comment with
no deposit required to collect, what
payment method are they going to
use?

If I give $100, am I guaranteed to
get $150 back?

The site says A Law Firm has approved our intended hyip program
I'm going to take a wild guess that
the law firm that "approved" your
HYIP will remain anonymous, right?

You stateThe trust will not give to the needy person, but will reward anyone who gives to the needy person at 100% of what was given and a 50% reward over a specific term.and then later stateAll I have to do is prove to the trust that anyone that does make a deposit is giving to a needy person which we pass the funds on to after expenses and the trust then gives back the deposit PLUS 50%.
Seems a bit suspect.

Looks to me like I could either choose
to give $100 directly to a needy charity
out of the goodness of my heart or
channel it through you to make a 50%
profit and my charity gets their cut
"after expenses".

How much are "expenses"?

Webwatch

August 26th, 2006, 12:51 PM

Thanks Believer for explaining how your scheme works.

The problem I have as founder member of 'The Non-Believer Trust' (only one member at the moment) is that I don't believe there is any benefactor at all and this is just a scam following similar religious guidelines to YMMSS and hoping that there are victims of YMMSS in this forum who will jump on this scheme as way of recouping lost funds.

However we could go back on forth on this forever so could you answer me one question if the benefactor does exist does he live in Belize by any chance, has just sold a resort and is looking to start a new scheme.

Believer

August 26th, 2006, 07:06 PM

OH me! Come November, I'll make a post and all of you can tell me where to send the $50. Whether the plan opens or not.

NO, the law firm will not remain unknown if you wish to place funds over and above the limits of the plan ... $1 to $500 ... With a 60 day time frame to re-enter. If you become a 'believer' at some point in time, you will be introduced to the law firm should you wish to tack on to the trade with larger funds. I'll have to travel to meet you face to face to tell you things that can't be posted.

I'll make another post after reading all the comments above and try to answer your questions. There are about 3 pages just above this post I need to digest.

I do appreciate all of your concerns because it will be a pleasure to pay you your $50 by November, and I will. You can even have a bank check from the trust fund with it's name on top if you like, or e-gold or money order, it is your choice.

I'm not going to get into an arguement with you here because ... (I know thing you don't) therefore, you lose .... (That fact will have to proven over time), but in the mean time let's be sociable, I would like to have you get to know me because I will be your direct contact as far as this proposed plan is concerned (even if it's only for one payment of $50). And, I want to get to know you folks as well.

Webwatch

August 27th, 2006, 05:43 AM

I'm not going to get into an arguement with you here because ... (I know thing you don't) therefore, you lose .... (That fact will have to proven over time), but in the mean time let's be sociable, I would like to have you get to know me because I will be your direct contact as far as this proposed plan is concerned (even if it's only for one payment of $50). And, I want to get to know you folks as well.

As far as I'm concerned there's no argument here just a discussion of your scheme, so could you now tell us the name of the law firm that approved it.

Believer

August 27th, 2006, 08:05 AM

Not just yet I can't reveal to you who the law firm is because I don't have contact with you, and you aren't a member of any of our groups, and it will not be public knowledge at any point in time. I will say this, the attorney that is assigned to us did set up the trust for the client; he also coordinates with the trading entity that he was introduced to by The SAM Group on behalf of the client. You don't think a client would just take my word about the trading entity do you - you don't take my word on anything just yet, neither did the client. This has been going on since late 2005. The Baby Pips group surfaced the client and I took it from there, and it has taken quite a bit of coordination to get it this far, and we are still quite a ways away from where I want it to be.

Other Comment:

I give my wife money when she goes shopping, and when she gets back I ask how much she spent and for what. She then proceeds to tell me, "that's on a need to know basis, and you don't need to know".

When the time comes, everything the membership needs to know per his/her standing will be disclosed.

Webwatch

August 27th, 2006, 09:56 AM

Thanks Believer-So if you are unable to the supply the name of the law firm then we must take it as read that their isn't one, the bluff and spin about public knowledge etc won't work here.
Maybe removing the information from your site is best untill you can back up the statement.

Not sure about the connection between your wife's shopping and this scheme, if you are unable to take charge of your own shopping and your wife can fob you off with the need to know basis nonsense then how can you be capable of handling other peoples money in this gifting/HYIP scheme.

If you ever do get married the best way to find out what your wife's bought is to either ask nicely ("What have you bought today Darling"), check the shopping list, help her unpack the shopping or make a note of what was in the cupboards before the shopping expedition and see what new stuff has turned up after the shopping has been unpacked and put away.

surfer

August 27th, 2006, 10:23 AM

I must be getting old Webwatch.

Dealing with evasive scammers
gets boring rather quickly now.

Same old tired lines.

:head: :head:

Still unanswered.
If I give $100, am I guaranteed to
get $150 back?
A yes or no question that doesn't
need to be "digested" before
answering.

Also unansweredSeems a bit suspect.

Looks to me like I could either choose
to give $100 directly to a needy charity
out of the goodness of my heart or
channel it through you to make a 50%
profit and my charity gets their cut
"after expenses".

How much are "expenses"?
Non-profit organizations also need
to be registered and it's fairly easy
for donors to see how much of their
funds are actually making it to the
intended recipients.

Webwatch

August 27th, 2006, 10:47 AM

Surfer:
Maybe its the familiarity breeds contempt aspect as they all have the same M.O.

Can't answer the simple questions

Can't back up statements made on website

Believer:
I will attempt to right your next post for you in case your struggling a bit:

I didn't come here to discuss my scheme and as you all obviously know far more than I do I'm not going to comment on this anymore.
What I will say is that I will be back in December to show you all how succesfull my scheme is and make you all eat your words.
I refuse to partake in a discussion with people who are argumentative and are trying to turn this into a battle of wits but they themselves have no ammunition

Or words to that effect :)

Believer

August 27th, 2006, 03:41 PM

Webwatch, I thought you were going to be my friend! I like you whether or not you like me, so live with it.

Ok folks, I'll start all over and restate the proposed plan in simplier terms. I'll even rewrite the information page sometime this next week.

But first let me say this, YES, if you deposit $100 into our proposed plan when it opens, you are GUARANTEED beyond a shadow of a doubt, with no failure to receive $150 paid to you from The Believers Trust within 10 days after you made your deposit. (period) I'll see to it myself. How do you want it, check, money order, small unmarked bills ....?

The proposed plan is not the one and same as The Believers Trust. Our proposed plan accepts funds on behalf of a needy person waiting in line to receive funds from you AFTER you make a deposit along with others who make deposits to the plan which is NOT open yet. The needy people are placed in line and chosen from among needy people in our community here in our home town based upon church groups that have given us their names (these needy people do not even know about this plan to help them as of right now).

The Believers Trust was set up to give away money as a "REWARD" to those that give to others that we have selected to receive the givers monies. TBT is very small, it is not well known, and it can give away money to anyone it wishes to give it to without asking the governments permission; for one reason it is not in the jurisdiction of the US. If you give to the proposed plan, then TBT will know of you (because I will administer the plan and I am the signatory authority over the trust - so there is the link) and will give money to you at a set amount.

OK Now! If you aren't interested in helping me set up the plan so it can be ran successfully using the resources I have available to me from TBT, please don't keep me answering questions that do not apply about SEC and such. Our law firm will keep us straight in that light, it has approved the aspects of the plan that have been presented thus far -- and it isn't set up yet!

WHAT I'M GOING TO DO:

I'm simply going to have a web site where one can make a deposit and receive 25% per month for 2 months with a total return of 150%. This will be paid monthly and at the end of the term, 100% of the principal will be returned. NOW, if TBT pays you 150% as planned WITHIN 10 days after making your deposit, and it will, then this proposed plan will consider YOU as holding your principal PLUS FUTURE EARNINGS in your own account for the full term of 2 months and you hold those funds without re-entering for the full term. You have been paid in ADVANCE your 50% return (reward) plus your deposit at 100%. The ONLY stipulation is that YOU HOLD THE FUNDS FOR THE FULL TERM OF 2 MONTHS AND NOT REPLACE THEM INTO THE PLAN FOR COMPOUNDING. At the end of the term you can re-enter any amount up to the limits. (At this point, I don't care about the SEC or any other alpahbet agency).

One other thing, many don't believe 25% can be earned by our group, and I can't see why not; if you believed PIPS was going to double your money in 90 days, what's to say we can't double it in 120 days? You believed in PIPS, why not Baby Pips?

What The Believers Trust is going to do: GIVE AWAY MONEY, I'm trying to get it to where the hyip arena can receive some of the benefits available, but it's hard to do by your attitudes here.

On the other side of the coin, TBT will send to you within 10 days after the deposit to the plan, a check to the depositer of the funds, 150% of the amount deposited into the plan. The trust doesn't care if the SEC or any other agency doesn't want it to give away money, it is going to give away money anyway and to whomever it wants to ... YOU. Now, if you want to report it to the SEC and not accept the funds, you can do that if you like, just return the check to me so I can give it to someone else. You can then receive 25% per month for 2 months and 100% of your principal back at the end of the term per the plans stipulations. That's how the plan is going to work. The trust is going to work the way it does as well.

I have had dealings with the SEC before and I know that if you aren't dealing in more than $1M, they could care less. So, that's that as far as I'm concerned. The law firm will keep me straight when the time comes, and I'm not going to reveal their name on a board.

I've got to go now and prep my motor home for a trip,

Take care,

Clayton

surfer

August 27th, 2006, 04:34 PM

if you deposit $100 into our proposed plan when it opens, you are GUARANTEED beyond a shadow of a doubt, with no failure to receive $150 paid to you from The Believers Trust
This makes it an investment
and requires proper registration
if you are targeting U.S. citizens.
OK Now! If you aren't interested in helping me set up the plan so it can be ran successfully using the resources I have available to me from TBT, please don't keep me answering questions that do not apply about SEC and such.
You do realize you're on an
anti-scam site, right? :crazy:
One other thing, many don't believe 25% can be earned by our group, and I can't see why not; if you believed PIPS was going to double your money in 90 days, what's to say we can't double it in 120 days? You believed in PIPS, why not Baby Pips?
Well, we knew PIPS couldn't
be sustained and it failed.

We also knew YMMSS-Success
Through Advertising couldn't
maintain doubling every 60-
90 days and it failed.

And we already know as well as
you do that you can't make a
guaranteed 25%/month on any
investment long term, which is
what you would have to do in
order to sustain your scam.
I have had dealings with the SEC before and I know that if you aren't dealing in more than $1M, they could care less. So, that's that as far as I'm concerned.
So, you are just going to
deliberately break the law
because you know that you
can get away with it for long
enough to scam a lot of money
from people.

And that's exactly what will
happen as those in at the end
will end up losing to pay the
low percentage on the front
end that make profit.

I just wish the authorities had
enough manpower to hunt your
kind down and put you where
you belong.

Webwatch

August 27th, 2006, 05:28 PM

Hi Believer,
Glad to see you sticking with us-as far as friendships are concerned we are just words on a page to each other although I dont like or dislike you as we have never met, sometimes I may post something that is an attempt at sarcasm or even try to inject some humour into the thread but its never personnal so please stay with us so we can keep a running commentary going on how your scheme is developing.

Due to the nature of the scheme you are pursuing I personally believe it is destined to fail and there is also a high probability that it will never get off the ground the only thing I am trying to do is make people aware of this inevitable eventuality, whether they chose to invest in your scheme is up to them.

There may be enough people out there who will join your scheme without doing any due dilligence and end up out of pocket but using religion and gifting as smokescreen for a HYIP investment scam will always be a sure fire way to put up all the warning flags in my book anyway.

Believer

August 27th, 2006, 05:53 PM

This makes it an investment
and requires proper registration
if you are targeting U.S. citizens.

No, not yet anyway, if it does the clients' lawyer will handle it.

You do realize you're on an
anti-scam site, right? :crazy:

Yes, I came here to get help in setting up a plan that would be acceptable to the hyip arena.

Well, we knew PIPS couldn't
be sustained and it failed.

We also knew YMMSS-Success
Through Advertising couldn't
maintain doubling every 60-
90 days and it failed.

Certainly I did because I looked at it very carefully. It did not have any backing what-so-ever. That doesn't prove that the investments that our client has isn't capable of carrying each member for 2 months at a time at 50% profit even if they don't earn that amount, they can pay it. We can close the plan at any time based upon the participation - and I'm not going to let it get out of hand based upon the monies available to be given away.

And we already know as well as
you do that you can't make a
guaranteed 25%/month on any
investment long term, which is
what you would have to do in
order to sustain your scam.

If it were a scam yes, but that is yet to be proven to you and I won't argue the point. Everything is a scam to those that don't know the full background, and I understand your concern. Yet, I am still trying to set up a plan to give away funds to the hyip arena, and I will not let it get out of hand based upon the funds that can be give out, no one will lose because I will have funds on hand to pay each depositor prior to accepting any deposits for any member.

So, you are just going to
deliberately break the law
because you know that you
can get away with it for long
enough to scam a lot of money
from people.

I'm afraid not, I could care less as far as the comment was concerned, when the plan is activated, the law firm will handle the details. All I want to do is administer the plan and pass funds out to the hyip arena.

And that's exactly what will
happen as those in at the end
will end up losing to pay the
low percentage on the front
end that make profit.

Again, trading was started on August 15th with $500K being utilized to generate profits to be given away. Even at 5% per month, that's 25K assigned to me per month to pass out as profits. I would have to take in $50K per month in order to max the plan out, and by the comments here, I'd be lucky to get $500 per month participation. Therefore, I'm not worried in that aspect, as the plan will keep accumulating at 5% $25 per month each month thereafter. You see my point, I think. Is 5% reasonable under the proposed circumstances, forget 25% if you don't think it is appropriate?

I just wish the authorities had
enough manpower to hunt your
kind down and put you where
you belong.]

I totally agree with you, in the light you are saying it!

You are talking in the light of a plan already in action and working, but it's not even being worked on just yet. I'm going to wait until the funds arrive that have been alloted to me for this project before anyone could be at risk of losing anything, the site isn't open yet, so no one can be scammed. I do have $10K on hand right now to pass out at $50 per person that makes a comment to help get the proposed plan set up. All they have to do is make a comment either good or bad, it doesn't matter, and send an e-mail to: (see the information site) stating they want the funds.

I know you will look at that as a bait and hook type scam, but they can take the funds and not participate in the plan and be $50 ahead. I have the funds and if they aren't used, they will be assigned to the plan and to those that make deposits.

My whole intent here is to set up a site where deposits can be made with a proposed return and term plus return of principal. The pre-earned funds arriving to TBT will be used to pay in advance the plans proposed returns and principal. I'm pre-earning any deposit that may ever be made along with pre-earning the proposed return prior to any member making a deposit.

Since you are a moderator, may I ask you to take careful note in the light you are looking at me and TBT, and when things develop and you see things are actually coming together according to the plan devised, post your observations and make suggestions. I'll do my best to accomodate you, as long as the client and their attorney agree to what I'm doing.

One thing to consider is what the attorney said, "do not pay any member back his principal from the plan (web site) as it could be considered a ponzi scheme". He also stated, to keep the funds on hand and in an account of somekind (e-gold) until TBT's check has cleared, then disburse the funds according to the underlying stipulations of the overall concept devised if they are to be given to a 3rd party (needy person). This way no one can be hurt by any means.

Also, I (admin of the plan) can not use any of the depositors funds should some become available to be placed as an investment by sending them to the offshore trading entity for future growth. However, after the term of 2 months is up, the depositors funds deposited back 2 months ago can be used as additional investment funds if so desired as the depositor was paid 150% shortly after making the deposit. And in light of being an investment plan, it eliminates the depositor completely as far as the authorities are concerned and the deposited funds were being used as an investment becaus the TERM IS UP AND THE DEPOSITOR HAS BEEN PAID BY A 3RD PARTY. The depositors term would have expired by the time any funds would have become available to be placed as an investment, and the depositor would have already received a REWARD from the trust fulfilling the terms proposed under the hybrid hyip plan.

Do you see any other problems at this time?

Believer

August 27th, 2006, 06:18 PM

..... but using religion and gifting as smokescreen for a HYIP investment scam will always be a sure fire way to put up all the warning flags in my book anyway.[/QUOTE]

When I typed up the information page, I was quoting the clients words, but those people are very religious and wish to give since it more blessed to give than receive. I should have not used the Luke 6:38 ploy. That's my fault.

As long as the funds arrive to the trust, and they will, the plan will work because I'll make sure of it (with your help). I'll even make a photostat of the bank statement for you and e-mail it to you if you like. I'll also give you the phone number to the law firm to verify the trust exist and such. This will be all after I get approval to do everything proposed.

Sincerely, I'm trying to find an outlet in the hyip arena to pass out some of the funds available for disbursement. If I can't do it in an acceptable way where failure over a two month term won't happen, then I won't persue it any further. You see, I can close the plan to new membership if the deposits start out running the available profits from the trust. It won't fail as long as I have full knowledge of all incoming funds and available outgoing funds. I'll watch that like a hawk.

Keep a close watch on me.

surfer

August 27th, 2006, 06:48 PM

Unfortunately, it's time that
usually proves us right as
opposed to law enforcement.

It will in this case as well.
Do you see any other problems at this time?
Nope. Other than the fact
that you will be operating
an unregistered, unlicensed,
illegal investment scheme
promising impossible to fulfill
returns and hurting who knows
how many people when you
crash/close/get busted, I see
no other problems. :rolleyes:

Believer

August 27th, 2006, 07:41 PM

Does that mean the case is closed? Can I turn myself in somewhere, or inform the authorities I'm going to break a law with my attorney's permission when I do this dasterly deed?

********************QUOTED:
Nope. Other than the fact
that you will be operating
an unregistered, unlicensed,
illegal investment scheme
promising impossible to fulfill
returns and hurting who knows
how many people when you
crash/close/get busted, I see
no other problems. UNQUOTED

Question: How do you call it an investment scheme, I'm only using a hyip plan that everyone knows about to explain how the returns (reward actually) will be paid. I will not be taking any funds for an investment into the proposed plan and the member will know that their deposit is going to a certain person that will be named and can be verified as a gift to that person. The funds are going to be given to a needy person in line to receive them. It will be explained that way at the proposed site, they can call the needy person if they like. So, how is it an investment? The attorney says I can do it this way. Please explain.

Also, tell me how the trust will be breaking a law by sending someone funds that I inform them about that is a "type" person that has a giving spirit? Are you telling me that a trust set up for the benefit of the benefactor can not give away the proceeds inside the trust or use them for any purpose they so choose? I need to know that law!

sisco50

August 27th, 2006, 07:47 PM

I can't believe I just wasted 10 minutes of my time reading this BS thread. Call me a fool. NP :(

Believer

August 27th, 2006, 07:59 PM

Sisco 50, You earned $50 if you want it.

Believer

August 28th, 2006, 12:36 AM

The URL has been revised.

www.tinyurl.com/j6ezg

Webwatch

August 28th, 2006, 06:17 AM

Believer:
Nice to see that you have removed the religious stuff from the page.

The problem is still that your scheme is an investment plan based on HYIP principles, if your benefactor wanted to set up a private trust/foundation there are better ways to go about it than this in fact there isn't a worse way.

The givers as you like to call them do not excist as people are always going to join your scheme on the pretext of recieving more money back which totally negates the giving aspect.

As your supposed benefactor is a religious man could you pass the message on that he/she is attempting to lead his flock in the wrong direction, in an ideal world it should be better to give than receive but in the HYIP arena it certainley isn't.

You can't change the definition of the word investing just to suit your scheme, YMMSS tried this and look where they are now.

Addition:
Regarding your attorney if he/she excists, the information you have been given is unsafe as no matter how you try to explain or justify your scheme, what will never change is the simple fact that people are expecting more in return than is being paid out.

It may be best to close your website down and have a serious rethink about this.

Believer

August 28th, 2006, 08:18 AM

Webwatch, does your post mean you want to join? (Ha!)

OK, I have received so many request for the FREE $50 that I'll get that paid within the next couple of weeks. That will be well in advance of the projected opening date. Of course I can't tell if anyone made a request from this thread.

I suspect that the pre-enrollment from the FREE $50 comment offer will generate well over the 30 members (at maximum $500) that will take to liquidate the first assigned funds given in advance; therefore, I now project that the plan will open in November with no slots left to fill.

I guess I need to give it some thought as to how a waiting list can be handled.

You see, my intent is to not offer this in the light of having everyone on earth participate, because as noted ... it could not support itself. But, I want a base of satisfied members that can surface individuals that want to participate with the offshore trading entity utilizing larger funds. And satisfied members tell others that have larger funds to place ... not in this plan, but directly with the law firm that can place such individuals under the laws of the land.

Yes, I understand your comments and suggestions and certainly will abide by the requirements of the law. I know I have been aggressive at the forums and have instigated negative comments from viewers intentionally. It got me banned at Talk Gold for making such post until Sep 28th. You and surfer have been more realistic and I have become to like you two.

So, I am now beginning to think that the proposed web site to be set up will not be visible to anyone other than the participating membership which will come from the 'comment makers' and a waiting line page could be set up where the individual that learn about it later could register while awaiting a slot to open.

At least a few hyipers will have found something worth ranting about. And, I wanted to have a few of them participating so they could enjoy the benefits of something on a small scale.

I certainly must apologize now that we have reached this point in our "relationship" for having intentionally being an instigator.

We have no fraudalent motives. Keep tabs on me!

Webwatch

August 28th, 2006, 09:14 AM

Banned from talkgold-you must have been really antagonistic and we both know the final straw which got you temporarily banned and I'm sure those shenanigans won't be tolerated here.

Anyway at least now we can keep an eye on your scheme and how it develops or doesn't whatever the case may be.

Don't send me any cash though as my time and input here is given freeley.

sisco50

August 28th, 2006, 11:06 AM

Sisco 50, You earned $50 if you want it.

No, I don't want it. But thank you anyway.

sisco50

August 28th, 2006, 11:08 AM

Hmmm One must really try hard to get banned from TG. lol

Arzel

August 28th, 2006, 11:19 AM

Believer,

If you have such a large initial amount of Seed money from which to back up the 150% repayments, why do you need to even have "gifters"? From a financial point of view this does not make much sense, especially since you a guarenteing that they will recieve 150% back after 2 months. It would seem you are incurring unneccesary risk when you could just give money to the needy from the initial pool which is generating an existing return.

Please explain why you are doing this, you have already stated that the purpose is to help needy people, and not those that would invest with your company.

callmestupid

August 28th, 2006, 02:04 PM

OH NO! This sounds EXACTLY like another YMMSS type scam! First of all, Believer, you suggest that we let the dust settle on YMMSS/STA and NOW your promoting yet ANOTHER SCAM!?!
Are you a former YMMSS/STA member? I would hope that we at the MW have learned a HUGE lesson! I myself have NO intentions of joining another scheme!
If somebody is making a donation to a charity,They do it for the purpose of helping somebody who is in need. So, if this is to help someone who needs help, then Who is the "somebody?
Your scheme makes no sence to me!

Believer

August 28th, 2006, 04:06 PM

Sisco50, you are welcome.

Arzel - I started the thread like I did at TG trying to instigate something, and found friends here. Please accept my apology. Actually, the investor wanted to give the earnings away from an investment as a tithe to reward those who do give to others. It was my mistake trying to explain the background and believe that there were people out here that would accept his desires and religious beliefs. I should have stated them in his light rather than the member. His light is: More blessed to give than receive and that's what he wanted to do - give. I was trying to accumulate a few members in this arena that could be the receiver of the "gift", and found nay-sayers mostly. Yes, regardless of what others believe, I will have access to give away money, but to avoid those with their hand out, I was trying to find some that would like to give "first" or deposit, or invest, or whatever you want to call it, and then send that person almost immediately 150%. I hasn't been well received except for the $50 comment makers, sisco50 excluded as well as webwatch. Please for give me for confusing you and making you think I about to scam people. We have people here in Philadelphia, MS where I live that will be the "giftees" and are not even aware they are about to receive gifts from this investor as a tithe (it a 3rd tithe actually, in our neck of the woods, we believe in the Holy Bible) I know this offends people, but I was trying to reveal who, what, when, where, and why of the concept proposed. Sorry I upset you.

callmestupid - Sorry, but I won't! Again, we do have monies to give away and the needy in our hometown will be the receivers of it. My intent was to open a "hyip" plan and pass out some monies in that arena. I just presented it wrong to begin with by revealing it before it opened. I should have just purchased a hyip script named the program started taking deposits and paying people up to the limits it could support and make a few people happy, but instead, since my intentions are truly honorable and I wanted some feedback prior to opening a plan, and I will let you have my name, phone number, blood type and anything else you want - I got bashed, banned and degraded to the point I don't feel human any longer. You know, I have come to the conclusion that I can't find anyone with a giving spirit on behalf of the investor who wants to give to that type individual. Everyone has ulterior motives - a get spirit. So, what am I going to do? Keep looking til November and make a decision then. With your good folks help of course. I do want to give to people that have been scammed more than they gave and then maybe I will feel human again. There has to be a little old lady that lost with PIPS somewhere within this group of people. Someone deserving a break in life. I'll keep trying to think of a way to find those type individuals and give them something to believe in ... if I can.

What would you suggest I do to fulfill the investors wishes of giving some monies to people with a giving spirit. Where can I find such a person with a giving spirit outside the people I know around town? These funds aren't charity funds, they are from an individual that just wants to give money away and spread it around as his 3rd tithe, and I have the obligation to do it without giving it to a charity or directly to a needy person ... maybe a relative who is helping his Mother (qualifies) or church group (qualifies) who is helping their members, or (you tell me), but, the intent is to give as a REWARD to that person with a helping spirit (the gifter) for helping a needy person that we do not know of.

I appreciate you folks, I really do. Thanks,

callmestupid

August 28th, 2006, 04:36 PM

Arzel

August 28th, 2006, 04:38 PM

Believer

August 28th, 2006, 04:55 PM

How I got banned at TG.

I made a post and then edited it out of the thread a moment later. The original post went to the moderator by e-mail (I guess) and he came back and quoted it within his post and banned me for it.

The post never showed up under my wheelchair thread as me being the poster.

Actually, it was the moderator that quoted MY DELETED post that he received in his e-mail that I edited out that started the banning cycle. Anyway, they don't have to contend with me for awhile. Just thought I would explain - It's still my fault because the Holy Bible says we will answer for every idle word - and I have answered for that already.

My problem at this thread:

I truly have a problem. The investor that is giving away the earnings proceeds of a protion of his fortune wants me to disburse it to a particular type of individual. That type individual MUST have a giving spirit, and I am to just walk up to him and hand him a check as a reward for his "attitude" I guess you would call it.

Look at it this way:

Can you see yourself having someone walk up to you, hand you a $1,000 check for no apparent reason what-so-ever? A total stranger puts the check in your hand! You would have a thousand questions. Your first though would be ... drug money, scam, trying to sucker me into something. Since you aren't in need of the money because you are GIVING to needy people already, why would anyone want to give ME money? I'm going to call the SEC, he says. This is unbelievable, you would think.

Wandering mind:

So, you see, my problem started when my mind started wondered and I made post, and set up an information site that would give too much information, and one thing led to another, I got banned from Talk Gold, got bashed at every forum I made a post at, and am completely at a loss as to how to fulfill the investors wishes without going to jail for promoting a scam (which is not my intent), and still can't find a doorway to enter the hyip arena to GIVE to some fortunate souls that believe everything is a scam.

Is there an answer? Can I find it before November? Will I be in jail come November? Will I receive a cease and desist order from the SEC before I open the plan? Will Santa Clause visit me come December? Will they allow me to be in a padded cell? I truly want to know how to GIVE AWAY MONEY on behalf of a (rather smart) individual who has more sense than to give it away himself. Now, I think I'm being scammed by him for putting me in this position.

Look where this has led to as far as I'm concerned. I need help!!!

Arzel

August 28th, 2006, 05:16 PM

Give the money to the Red Cross and be done with it. Or some other charity of a noble cause.

Webwatch

August 28th, 2006, 05:40 PM

Hi Believer as you and your benefactor are obviously religious men I have a question:

Do you not think in order to give you have to give what your heart tells you to and not through any compulsion or manipulation as the scheme you are setting up will cause.

Would it not have been better to set up a trust and reward people that have given but without their prior knowledge, of course this could only be done once as word would spread and the givers would then expect a reward.

The givers could then decide if they wanted the reward or wished to give it back to the needy themselves without the trusts involvement.

Its the easiest thing in the world to give money and then sit back and think "thats my good deed for the day" its a lot harder to go out in person and help someone in need not only financially but also with time and effort and offer comfort or just a ear to listen. Do I do any of this, of course not, I do the easy thing, unless I can get away without putting my hand in my pocket.
Even so I still wouldn't give money to a scheme that I knew might give me more back I'm still more likely to give and expect nothing in return.

Why because I don't like being manipulated into giving I feel better if I do so under my own valition.

Thats before I consider the high probabilty that many will give to your scheme and receive nothing back, will they still think thats no problem I only wanted to give anyway-I doubt it.

callmestupid

August 28th, 2006, 06:00 PM

Believer

August 28th, 2006, 06:02 PM

Believer,
If you ARE wanting to help people that have been a victim of the scam, Why are you FIRST asking that money be sent before they get it?
I understand wanting to pay the poor victims of the scam who can't fend for themselves. I lost ALOT of money,However the thing that makes me the SICKEST is to see the elderly and the handycaped taken advantage of.
And how do we know that YOU'RE actually in a wheelchair?
My belief is that you're probably trying to use peoples emotions.
As far as paying The SAD CASE VICTIMS, Why not take YOUR money and help them out?

I screwed up when I made the original information site... OK!

I'm not in a wheelchair ... it's a joke avatar.

Let's forget the hyip plan being set up. I have an obligation to fulfill the clients wishes .... and simply can't. You said (I think) that you don't want any money because you don't want to do what is necessary to receive it.

It's not MY MONEY. I'm simply in charge of giving it away to a certain type individual and I thought by having YOU give first, I could then qualify you to get it back plus extra.

What can I do in this arena that would be accepted in the light of the clients wishes? You tell me!

Believer

August 28th, 2006, 06:05 PM

Believer,
I still say that if you really do want to give to the needy, Go over the list of victims, read thier stories and then send That person the $50! YOU will be rewarded someday for YOUR works and thoughtfulness.
OR ELSE you'll be "rewarded" for you scam! Better be carefull of the choices you make in life.

That's a great idea.... but, how do you recommend I approach them? I'll need some personal information from them and I'll be back in the same spot I in right now right here at this thread.

You tell me!!! I'll do it. Watch me.

callmestupid

August 28th, 2006, 06:08 PM

callmestupid

August 28th, 2006, 06:12 PM

Webwatch

August 28th, 2006, 06:16 PM

Believer

August 28th, 2006, 06:20 PM

Believer

August 28th, 2006, 06:26 PM

How do WE know this "BELIEVER" isn't Kim Inman or one of his "STAFF"? BESIDES, if a scammer is at the end of ONE SCAM doesn't he start another one?
I DON"t TRUST THIS RUBBISH THAT'S BEING POSTED ON THIS!! Maybe this is a case of "IF YOU CAN"T BEAT THEM, JOIN THEM!:bow:

I'm looking for an outlet, and all that I've posted is true.

I have never heard of Kim Inman until I came to this thread. And, I'm not joining them by any means.

If someone started a scam and made money, why would he be seeking advice on how to start another one and be bashed til kingdom come?

Believer

August 28th, 2006, 06:32 PM

Believer:

The only way forward i can see is to keep the reward a secret.
Its a bit tricky now but not impossible.
Have faith and you will find a way.
Go to sleep thinking about it and in the morning you will have the answer.

If it envolves money doubling over 90 days you've possibly had a visit from the wrong deity.

I went to sleep last night and dreamed about Donna. I'd been chasing her in my dreams for 16 years, she finally said yes, and the phone rang a moment later. I'll take your suggestion and try to go to sleep thinking about it, but Donna is still on my mind. (My wife doesn't know, and IF I get a reward from Donna, you can bet I'll keep it a SECRET.)

Webwatch

August 28th, 2006, 06:39 PM

Now, come October sometime, I will have available to me about $25K, that's in October ... to disburse to (not a needy person because as you said they would the next month have their hand held out again to us) those that are truly helping other people in need. This is in the clients mind is a giving person with the right spirit (that should be rewarded in some way), and he would not be holding his hand out the next month. We could move on to another giving spirit.

Is there a solution for me in this arena to pass out some funds?

Believer:
I didn't mean that you shouldn't give to the needy but see how easy missunderstandings can happen even in a thread like this.

You could always donate the money to those that help the needy like homeless shelters and local charities or individuals you see in the street as they walk by.
It might be worth the benefactor coming along (in disguise if he/she wants to stay anonymous) so the feeling of giving can be experienced.

The solution is in you to do the right thing and I'm sure you will find a way.

Believer

August 28th, 2006, 06:51 PM

Webwatch,

Thank you very much. As time goes on, I'll keep you folks informed as to what and how I'm handling the funds.

Just today, the attorney said some funds are going to arrive "any day now". I suspect those funds will be small and go toward something other than this project.

Thanks,

Clayton

callmestupid

August 28th, 2006, 07:03 PM

Believer

August 28th, 2006, 07:09 PM

Good question!
Maybe you think that if we were scammed once, we will be dumb enough to fall for yet ANOTHER MONEY GRABBER! OR MAYBE, you ARE being for real! I'll never know because I'll have NOTHING to do with this!
And since you claim to be "religious" Why are you even joking about dreaming about another women and how maybe you'll get your reward from "Donna"?
:shake: :shake: :shake:

I'm a backsliding disciple. OK! No one is perfect as you see by my post. The ultimate diety banned me from a forum, so that's the proof I'm being punished for my backsliding ways. Did you really expect me to be perfect in every aspect of my life?

Didn't you catch the joke? Donna is only in my dreams as they say, and I didn't catch her because the phone rang, and I told the caller after sounding sleepy and he asked if he woke me up the full story, then asked him what he wanted at 10AM in the morning.

callmestupid

August 28th, 2006, 08:08 PM

webwatch, points well taken.

I made a mistake by trying to "be part of the crowd" that stood out and did what others only promised in the hyip arena - proposed to do anyway.

This I can see is not the way to go about it.

Now, come October sometime, I will have available to me about $25K, that's in October ... to disburse to (not a needy person because as you said they would the next month have their hand held out again to us) those that are truly helping other people in need. This is in the clients mind is a giving person with the right spirit (that should be rewarded in some way), and he would not be holding his hand out the next month. We could move on to another giving spirit.

Is there a solution for me in this arena to pass out some funds?

Believer, If you TRUELY want to help thoose who are in need however, you don't want to give the needy the money. I have a suggestion.
Why don't you take that money and either put it towards some program that teaches the needy how to get on thier own two feet and teaches them survival skills. OR maybe start one yourself! Something that has job training plus fianacal education. That way you are not "giving them a fish to feed them for a day" but, you are "teaching them to fish so they can feed themselves for a lifetime".
Plus, there should be all kinds of training on how to SAVE AND PROTECT the money they have left. That way, when they have a crises in thier lives, they will have money to fall back on.
They should also be taught such things as; :) knowing what authorities they should contact in case they "smell a scam",:) How to plan for the future,:) How to equipt themselves with skills to get better paying jobs, :)
AND how to :) TRULEY give FROM THE HEART :) WITHOUT sacraficing thier family and thier CREDIT! They need to be taugh how to pay thier bills on a timely maner so they will not be paying such things as (late fees).
They should also be taught how to handle thier bank accounts so it is NOT a burden because of overdrafts and OVERSPENDING!
THEN, if you want to see how giving a person REALLY IS; ask people to GIVE OF THIER TIME (without pay) TO TEACH THE NEEDY PEOPLE HOW TO HELP THEMSELVES! I KNOW I'D LOVE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT!
I may not be able to give money to charity, HOWEVER, I do give of my time to all kinds of things that I Volunteer to.
I never ONE TIME EVEN THOUGHT OF ASKING FOR ANY MONEY FOR MY TIME. I WAS MORE THAN GLAD TO BE OF SOME HELP!
TIME IS FAR MORE VALUABLE THAN MONEY!!!!

Believer

August 28th, 2006, 08:12 PM

You are a true friend in giving the advise and recommendations.

I Kindly Thank You.

Clayton

callmestupid

August 28th, 2006, 09:21 PM

Welcome
! I Know That Alot Of Cities Have Centers That Teach Things Such As I Spoke About. You Can Find One In About Any City That Would Be Thankful For The Funds.
They Also Teach People How To Read (a Major Thing To Know How To Do To Make It In This World)!

Think On This One: How About A Home For Young Pregnant Women Who Don't Know How To Cope With Thier Situation. They Want To Keep Thier Baby, However They Don't Have The Needed Skills To Support Themselves, (let Alone A Child) This Way, You're Not Only Helping One Person,but Two!

There Are Alot Of Single Parents Out There Who Can't Help The Situation They Are In. They Struggle Day In And Day Out! Yet, No Matter How Hard They Try, They Never Seem To Get Ahead! They Feel As If The World Is Always Against Them And They Usually Are In That Situation For Many Years
.
I Ought To Know, I'm One Of The Statisics! I Know What It's Like To Walk Because You Can't Afford A Car Along With The Gas,upkeep And Insurance. I Know What It's Like To Seem To Never Get Ahead ,but Rather, To Seem To Fall Further And Further Back!

It's Not Easy As A Single Parent! You Watch You Children Do Without While Others Have About Everything A Kid Could Ask For. You Put Food On The Table And Shoes On The Childrens Feet But That's About All You Can Do So That You Can Keep Up The Bills!

If You Know Of A Struggeling Single Parent, Here Is Another Idea For You ( This Is One That I Want To Do If I Can Ever Get Ahead Myself!)
Around The Beginning Of November, Pay That Single Parents Utility Bills (annonomously) For The Months Of November And December! This Way They Can Have Some Spare Money To Buy Thier Children New Toys, Clothes And Games.
Or
Do The Same In June And July. Plus Send That Single Parent An All Expence Paid Vacation With Some Spending Money. This Way They Can Spend Time With Thier Children And Do Something That Will Have Lasting Memories! (other Than Spending Thier Whole Summer Vacation At A Baby Sitter While Thier Mommy Or Daddy Work)

I Haven't Reached The Point That I Can Do This Yet. I Don't Know How Many Times I Have Walked My Children To Dr Apointment In The Head. The Children Would Be Whinney Because It Was Misserable. During Theese Times I Would Think About How, When I Can Get Ahead, I Wanted To Help Other Struggeling Single Parents Who Faced The Same Problems I Did!
I Have A Long List Of Things That I Want To Do (all Will Be Without The Person I "bless Thier Life With" Knowing!

That Has Always Been The Way I Want To Do It! I Want It To Be People That Don't Really Know Me, That Way I Will Never Be Suspected" As Being The One Who Did It! I'd Send Annonomous Notes With The Paid Vacation Or Christmas Money And Tell Them Not To Worry About Who Did This For Them, But To Look At Everyone As If "they" Were That Special Person Who Put An Unexpected Blessing Into Thier Life.

I Even Entend On Sending The Letter From A Completely Differant State Than I Live In,so There Is No Was I'm Suspected!

I Have Gotten To Do One Thing That Was Big And I Did It Annonomously. That Was Over A Year Ago. When I Gave This Huge Blessing, I Wrote "annomous- Don't Even Ask Who Did This"

The Funest Thing To Me, Is Acting Like I Know Nothing What So Ever About It! I Love Doing Things Like This!
However, Since My Life If Not Full Of Money, By Any Means, I Give Of My Time.
I Have Spent Countless Hours On Doing Things For Others And It Hasn't Always Been Easy But It Was Time Worth Spent!
My Rewards Were Never Money! It Was Smiles On Young Peoples Faces As I Tought Them Something, Or The Hugs Of Small Children Whom Spent Time With, Or The Wise Advice And Stories Of The Lives Of The Elderly,when I Did Something For Them That They Couldn't Do For Themselves.

I Still Haven't Given Up My Dream Of Doing What I Call "annomous Blessings! I've Had This Desire For Years And One Day I Will Be Able To Do It About Once A Year!
In The Meantime, I Have No Copy Rights On This Idea So Feal Free To Use It With My Blessings!

"

callmestupid

August 28th, 2006, 09:43 PM

Oh, I Also Want To Say, If You Are A Person Without Money, You Can Still Give "annonomous Blessings"!
Do Things Such As Shovel Someones Sidewalk.clean A Church Parking Lot, Mix Someone Who Is Struggling A Meal And Send It With Someone You Know Won't Tell On You!
There Are All Kinds Of Ways You Can Give "annonomous Blessings" Without Having Lots Of Money. I'm Sure You Can Come Up With Some That Others Haven't Thought Of.
I've Found That Life Can Be Fun (even When You're Not Rich)! It Puts Real Joy In Your Heart To Do Things For Others And Try To Do It Without Them Knowing It Was You!
Try It! It's Fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

Oh, I Almost Forgot; When I Said Walking To The Doctors In The Head ( I Ment Heat) Lol! I Do Have A Sound Mind.

callmestupid

August 28th, 2006, 11:01 PM

Believer,

One More Bit Of Information, The Reason I'm On The Matrix Watch Is Partly Because Of My Desire To Fullfill My Dream! I Was Conned Into Joining A Scam Called Ymmss/sta
.
The Money Was Supposed To Double Every 60-90 Days! I've Had My Money In The Scam For A Very Long Time! According To The "plan" I Should Be Going On To Eight Million Dollars Now ( Which Would Be 16 Million Dollars In The Next 60-90 Days : Then In Another 60-90 Days I Would Have 32 Million Dollars! Then In A Short Three Months From That- I Would Have 64 Million Dollars!!!!!!!!!

I Had Lots Of Talks With The Person Who Got Me Into The Program, I Told Her About My Dream Of Being An "annonmous Blesser". She Lives In A Differant State So I Knew That She Wouldn't Tell Anybody What I Was Doing.

She Was Even Going To Help Me In My Plans, By Being The One Who Sent The Annonmous Letters And, So That I Wouldn't Be Known To Pay An Individials Utility Bills
, She Would Be The One Who Would Go Into The Utility Office And Say That She Wanted To Pay "so-n-sos" Bill And Pay A Credit That Should Be Enough To Pay Two Months And She Would Not Give The Name Of The Person Paying It.
Of Course, This Would Have To Be Done With Cash So No Name Could Be Traced To The Payment. I Would Have My "helper" Get A Reciept And Then Send That Reciept To The "unexpected Person" In The Mail (which Would Have Been Sent From My "helpers" State Along With A Card Telling Them To Not Worry About The Utilities For The Next Couple Of Months And To Focus On Enjoying Thier Family!

I Have Been Poor All Of My Life So, Of Course I Wanted A Better Life For My Children And Myself! I Wanted To Give My Children Things I Could Never Give Them
I Didn't Want To "bless" Others And Still Have My Children Do Without. It Was My Goal To Provide My Children With A Beautiful Home, Good Meals, Nice Clothes,( By The Way, You Can Get Nice Clothes At Goodwill) Plus Nice Vacations That They Would Always Remember Spending With Me, Even When I'm Long Gone.

Then I Wanted, So Badly,to Be Able To Preform At Least One Big "annonomous Blessing" A Year To Differant People Who Were Struggling Like I Did For So Long

I Would Talk For Hours With My "helper" About All Of The Ways That I Wanted To Do Theese "annonomous Blessings! She Would Get So Excited About What I Was Talking About, She Wanted To Do The Same Thing In Her State (i Would Be Her "helper")

But, As Reality Would Have It, I Was Scammed Out Of My Only Chance To See My Dream Fullfilled! Instead Of Being Close To That- 64 Million Dollars-i'm Scraping The Bottom Again!
I Won't Give Up My Dream!! However, In-the-mean-time, I Will Still Do The "annonmous Blessings" That Require No Money!

It's Hard To Get Back On You Feet When You've Skinned Your Knees So Badly That It Hurts To Even Try To Stand!!!!!!!

I Hope You Can See Where I'm Comming From!
Have A Great Day!

callmestupid

August 29th, 2006, 01:22 AM

I screwed up when I made the original information site... OK!

I'm not in a wheelchair ... it's a joke avatar.

Let's forget the hyip plan being set up. I have an obligation to fulfill the clients wishes .... and simply can't. You said (I think) that you don't want any money because you don't want to do what is necessary to receive it.

It's not MY MONEY. I'm simply in charge of giving it away to a certain type individual and I thought by having YOU give first, I could then qualify you to get it back plus extra.

What can I do in this arena that would be accepted in the light of the clients wishes? You tell me!
AS FAR AS OBLIGATIONS GO, DON'T WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO BE HONEST, TRUSTWORTHY AND LAW ABIDING CITIZENS?

I STILL SAY THAT TIME IS MORE VALUABLE THAN MONEY! IF YOU EVER DO USE YOUR MONEY FOR TRUE WORTHY CAUSES, YOU'LL REAP THE BENIFITS! (I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT MONEY.)

I'M NOT RICH, HOWEVER, I PROBABLY HAVE MORE CONTENTMENT IN THE "TIME" I GIVE TO THE NEEDY, THAN YOU GET WHEN YOU JUST HAND SOMEONE "MONEY" (OR A CHECK)! MONEY ISN'T EVERYTHING THERE IS IN LIFE!

THE REASON I SAY THIS; IS BECAUSE, I DON'T ASK PEOPLE TO GIVE ME OF THIER TIME -TO SEE IF THEY ARE "WORTHY" OF ME GIVING THEM MY TIME!

THE BEST KIND OF LIFE TO LIVE, IS ONE THAT IS 100% HONEST! BE HONEST IN EVERYTHING AND YOU WILL NEVER HAVE TO WORRY WHO YOUR TRUE FRIENDS ARE!

YOU'LL NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE LAW COMMING AFTER YOU!

YOU'LL NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT SOMEBODY TRYING TO DO AWAY WITH YOUR LIFE BECAUSE YOU SCAMMED THEM OUT OF THIER MONEY!

PLUS, YOU CAN HONESTLY LOOK YOUR CHILDREN, FRIENDS AND FAMILY IN THE EYE AND KNOW THAT WHEN YOU PASS FROM THIS LIFE; EVERYONE WILL REMEMBER YOU AS A PERSON OF HONEST INTEGRITY!

IS TRYING TO SCAM PEOPLE OUT OF THIER HARD-EARNED MONEY, REALLY WORTH EVERYTHING YOU WOULD BE GIVING UP??

THINK ABOUT IT AS YOU SLEEP TONIGHT!! MAYBE YOU'LL HAVE A DREAM ABOUT THE BEST WAY TO LIVE LIFE.

ALSO, REMEMBER; THERE IS AN ETERNITY TO FACE AFTER THIS LIFE! THE AUTHORITIES THERE ARE KEEPING RECORDS THAT NO AUTHORITIES HERE EVEN KNOW ABOUT!:bow:

ycchen

August 29th, 2006, 02:11 AM

callmestupid, agree! good points :)

Probably don't need to get too upset because it is pretty clear that Beliver is designing an obvious ponzi scam, and I am sure s/he knows it very well.

Since it is a badly design ponzi scam, I don't think it will take off easily. Even if it does, MatrixWatch will keep an eye on it. ;)

callmestupid

August 29th, 2006, 08:43 AM

Thank You,
I hope you're right! I'd hate to see this person take innoccent peoples money.

I'd hate to hear about ANOTHER elderly person getting scammed out of thier money!

Out of all the stories that I've read from victims of scams: it's the one about a woman who sold her (dead) sons truck because Kim Inman promised her a better future (which her son would have wanted for his mother)

Kim promised her things that he KNEW he wasn't going to give her! All he wanted was her money and then he "forgot" his promises! He used her emotions to get her money but,was NOT there to to comfort her in her times of grief!!

I don't know this women, However, If I can ever get ahead in life I intend on tracking her down and give her the money Kim Inman stole from her! The thought of this womans pain over something she can't ever get back (her dead sons truck) is hard to understand how Kim Inman can sleep at night!

I'm not elderly but, I know the pain of the loss of a loved one. My brother died very young from a car accedent. (he wasn't the one driving) He was just turning 21!

We grew up with a single mother (who raised 5 children by herself)- because our dad decided he didn't want the "burden". So, you see, we grew up very poor! It's funny though, we had NO IDEA that we were poor because we had alot of love for eachother!

When my brother died, it was only a few days after he gave me a surprise visit! (we lived 2 hours apart) I got hugs and LOTS of " I LOVE YOU, SIS!", before he left to go back home. We had plans to go horseback riding that very next weekend for his 21st birthday. However, a VERY PAINFULL thing changed EVERYTHING. I Never saw my PRECIOUS brother again! He was killed the day before I was to see him for his birthday!

I Don't have to look back and regret that I put MONEY ahead of my brother!
I have No REGRETS of how I spent my "TIME" WITH HIM!

THIS IS THE WAY TO LIVE LIFE!

My thoughts about the poor woman who sold her dead son's truck ,is that if she could, she'd rather have the truck instead of the money! She even stated how this was precious to her.

THIS is the person I want to help!

SCAMS MAKE ME SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Webwatch

August 29th, 2006, 09:15 AM

callmestupid,
Thank you for sharing your story.
Your posts come straight from the heart and its been a privelidge for me to read them.
:applause:

Arzel

August 29th, 2006, 09:18 AM

SCAMS MAKE ME SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

And they should. Believer is nothing more than a con-man, like the thousands of others on the net. I must give him a little credit for a somewhat original approach to luring people into his scam however.

There are several red flags which should be noted.

1. Guarenteed return of 150%.
2. Religious undertones.
3. Mysterious benefactor.
4. Helping other people/Charatible Giving.
5. Outrageous returns on investment with no risk.
6. Confusion regarding the actual plan or where the money is coming from.

There are probably more, but the overwhelming theme is scam.

callmestupid

August 29th, 2006, 09:29 AM

There are MILLIONS of innoccent people that are/and will fall for these scams.
I know this sounds crazy,but, I had never heard about scams until I got into the YMMSS/STA!

I think the government should make it MANDATORY that all schools teach students the dangers of traps and scams! They need to be aware of them! I took computer class in school. Funny though, They never mentioned anything about crooks and scams!

They taught about how to use programs and basic things about computers that we needed to know. Didn't they think we needed to know there are scammers that will use the computer for EVIL and take everything you own!?!

callmestupid

August 29th, 2006, 09:35 AM

webwatch,
Thank you for your kind words! You have MADE MY DAY! SEE, You don't have to be rich to touch someones life!

Full bank accounts may build a home BUT, a full heart can build friendships!!!!!:) :bow:

ycchen

August 29th, 2006, 09:37 AM

callmestupid, thanks for sharing and willing to offer help to another victim (old lady) who actually posted here on MatrixWatch before.

There are countless ponzi scams on the internet! A few hit the jackpot and grow big before they dissappear. (PIPS and YMMSS are good example). PIPS is dead, but it inspires scammer like beliver to follow its model and redesign another "miracle" -- baby pips :shake: Of course, since baby pips is so badly designed, it will just be a joke and will not take off as PIPS.

Learning from other's and our own experiences, MatrixWatch approach to ponzi scam is to follow it through, empower victims to take actions until we see justice.

We have been pursuing the YMMSS/STA since Jan 2005 (http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2032) (1 1/2 years already), and we sincerely hope something positive will come-up at the end of the day.

If it does, it will probably set an another good example of how victim/consumer's collective action can take down interent ponzi scams, so (potential) scammer like Believer will think twice before s/he starts his/her ponzi.

callmestupid

August 29th, 2006, 10:19 AM

I'm GLAD that the woman posted HERE! She is the ONLY person I'd LOVE TO MEET! I Want to be able to sit down with her and hear all about her son and get to know what her life was like!

One thing that I've learned, is that, if you take the TIME, you can learn ALOT from the elderly!! They can give us great advice (if we are willing to use it)!
On top of that, I LOVE to hear thier stories about thier lives!

I've sat for, litterly, hours, listening to differant elderly people.

Young people that don't take the time to spent with the elderly, don't realize what they're missing!

Since my mother is nearing the "elderly stage" in life, She is one that I love to hear the stories about HER life! I'm glad that SHE was never scammed!!! I'd REALLY HATE THAT IF SHE HAD BEEN!!!!!! She still has about 10-15 years before she is concidered "elderly". However, she is now on disability because of detoritary authoritis (where she breaks bones very easily) The doctors would not "release her" to go back to work at the hospital where she had worked for years.

I'm just so GLAD that I didn't talk my mother into joining the YMMSS/STA!

THANKS FOR ALL THE WORK YOU GUYS DO IN TRYING TO GET THEESE SCAMMERS CAUGHT!

It's clear to me that you to help the VICTIMS! You're not in this for YOURSELVES! That's the type of people that make this earth great!!!!!!!!:applause: :applause: :bow:

Believer

August 29th, 2006, 10:44 AM

That's my Uncle Sam's hand holding the victim. He taught me everything I know! The initials stand for: Ima Real Scammer

(This avitar may change)

P.S. That's me he's holding teaching me how it's done first hand, or one handed, I haven't learned the lesson quite yet. But, come November, I'll get some practice!

callmestupid

August 29th, 2006, 10:53 AM

Believer,
Are you saying that you want to scam people out of thier money because TAXES seem unfairly high! OR are you just a person who's bored with life so you came here to start some BOGUS post? ARE YOU FOR REAL!?!

Gringo

August 29th, 2006, 12:03 PM

Since you claim to want to give away this fortune to people that help others, and not to the needy themselves, simply take a list of charities and contact them and state that you want to make a donation with the provision that the funds go to the volunteers and staff that work there rather than their general fund.

Your mysterious investor could have done this from day one directly. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out. That is why this whole elaborate scheme sounds like a pure scam with you in the middle asking people to send you their money so that you can reward them with triple their money back. As if someone sending you their money somehow proves that they are a "giver".

callmestupid

August 29th, 2006, 12:16 PM

You've got a GREAT IDEA there, Gringo!:)

It's the TRUE GIVERS that never seek returns on what they give!

Let me tell you something that happened to a man, who's now in his 70's.

He put a roof on a church and never asked for ONE PENNY! About 15 years later, a man that USED to go to that church, walked up to this (now elderly) man and handed him a HUGE amount of money (I believe it might have been about $5,000)

I know BOTH men personally and I can tell you two things; The elderly man roofed the church (out of the goodness of his heart). He didn't expect anything in return!

AND the YOUNG man, who gave the elder the money, did it out of the goodness of HIS heart. He didn't go around telling everybody about what he did, nor did HE expect anything in return!

As I said, I know BOTH of theese men personally and they are very well respected by everyone that has the priveledge to know them!

If you look around, you can find "GIVERS" in every community!

Believer

August 29th, 2006, 12:36 PM

Folks,

I'm just having fun ... can't you tell? If I took every post that you make to me as a "whipping post", after taking your tongue lashing I would be on the defensive if I was out to scam people... wouldn't you agree?

I can't seem to explain in plain language that I'm going to give money away to this arena some way shape or form. That's a FACT, and I'm only trying to get the point across. How I do it is yet to be known because I haven't gotten any recommendations in that aspect.

Your desires as expressed are good and that is already being done, not by me, but by other groups under TSG. My "heart's desire" is to enter this arena with something real to offer on a very small scale.

At the moment since I haven't entered into such an arrangement in this arena, all the post could be considered bogus because nothing exists except post and opinions. Now, if a site was set up to accept money from members, it would be a different story all together.

You folks have been victim to something that was once believed in, and it failed. I propose to start something NOT BELIEVED in and that works. That's my dream. Your dream has passed on; mine is still in my mind and I discuss it with Donna every night in my dreams. At the moment it is only a dream to enter this arena.

Your comments represent dreams that you had and still have, I'm not trying to bash them in any means like you do mine. I asked for suggestions and recommendations to enter this arena, and look where it has gottem me; so I show my light heartedness with some humor which most of you fail to see.

I'm very comfortable in my life style, I own a transportation company (Fly-By-Knight Transportation) that is doing well, my gross income this past year way was over $400K and is way above average, and shortly it will increase more whether I get this project underway or not. I have a motorhome that is new which cost over $325K, and drive a new 2006 SUV. So, I do not have to scam anyone for the sake of greed or any other reason.

I think the problem here is that I think MUCH differently than others and I live in my own little world and would like to "invade" others (personal lives) and "if money can solve any problem they have, then there is not problem" I can help - That's where my heart is! God made me this way, and I have to live with it!

Should I apoligize for anything said in any of the above post? If so, I do!

Clayton

callmestupid

August 29th, 2006, 12:55 PM

Do you acctually believe that, if this WAS REAL, people that have a money problem could give $100 so they could recieve $50?

We all have the "cost of living" to deal with. People like ourselves are blessed to keep up with our bills -let a-lone "keep up with the Jonses".

Webwatch

August 29th, 2006, 01:06 PM

This thread could turn in to a good case study on how Not to start a Ponzi scheme.

If only Kim Inman had come here first telling us he'd had a dream about doubling your money in 90 days think of the fun we could of had with that.

Anyway believer keep up the posts as everyone in my office is making notes.
Apart from my Secretary Donna (how scary is that) who is making some tea/coffee for us.

Arzel

August 29th, 2006, 01:07 PM

Folks,

I'm very comfortable in my life style, I own a transportation company (Fly-By-Knight Transportation) that is doing well, my gross income this past year way was over $400K and is way above average, and shortly it will increase more whether I get this project underway or not. I have a motorhome that is new which cost over $325K, and drive a new 2006 SUV. So, I do not have to scam anyone for the sake of greed or any other reason.

Clayton

Are your eyes brown by any chance?

Fly-by-Knight Trans is a fictional company for some RPG. I figured you for some kid, but this only confirms it. Please go away and stop pushing your scam here, no one is buying your load.

Believer

August 29th, 2006, 01:16 PM

As they say, "the truth hurts" some folks.

There is no scam yet!

callmestupid

August 29th, 2006, 01:26 PM

would you by any chance, happen to be a nephew of the FAMOUS KIM INMAN?

Believer

August 29th, 2006, 01:33 PM

would you by any chance, happen to be a nephew of the FAMOUS KIM INMAN?

No, unfortunately I'm not!

I changed my avatar to help express the "intent" of this forum. I certainly hope it gives you some ammunition to use against me. Seems you are running low at the moment!

Your welcome!

Dreamer

August 29th, 2006, 02:04 PM

Hey Believer,

Im starting to read this thread, and would like to disprove everybody wrong here.

After 6 years i just got fired from my job. Because I was busy helping out friends and family members in need for the past few years, my credit cards have suffered, and frankly, I dont know how Im going to be able to afford my bills for september. I could be homeless soon if I cant find a job quick enough.

$50 wont do me any good, and I cant wait until November. If you can pay one months of my bills so I have a better chance at survival, I'll cheerleader for u until the very end.

If you already have $500k available, helping me out with $1000 wont hurt you much. Its a far cry for my bills I owe, but it will get me thru one month.

Believer

August 29th, 2006, 02:36 PM

Dreamer,

Please don't get confused ...!!! The $500K is in investments outside the US and is not available for disbursement. The earnings are what is being given away. As for me, I keep my funds out working and by me giving to you would be against the post made here in regard to a proposed program.

If you will read one of the post above, there are some funds coming in any day now so says the attorney for the client. I'll have signator over them. I'll write you a check from the trust, and you do NOT have to cheer for me here ... as a matter of fact, I would rather you wait until November to make positive post as it would demish the ammunition used against me by the opposing teams cheerleaders..

Now, if I don't get the funds to you shortly after they arrive, you can join "The Non-Believers Trust", I think webwatch is the only member right now. But, don't worry about that just yet. I need some time as the whole plan is programmed for November and this is "first blood" well in advance.

Go to the URL (I can't post an e-mail here) and write the group, I'll get the mail. Understand, I'll have to get this approved (and I will) with the benefactor, it shouldn't be past the middle of next month. I'll be in touch ... no further post on this subject in this thread by you or me until November PLEASE.

Believer -

Now, this should get some replies from nay-sayers. I love it!

Dreamer, get ready to be bashed because the opposing team's first thought will be you know me and this is a set-up of some kind. Wait until November to make your comments.

Believer

August 29th, 2006, 03:04 PM

Anyway believer keep up the posts as everyone in my office is making notes.
Apart from my Secretary Donna (how scary is that) who is making some tea/coffee for us.

Really, ask Donna if she has a mole on her .... O! never mind, I know she does.

Webwatch

August 29th, 2006, 04:10 PM

Now, if I don't get the funds to you shortly after they arrive, you can join "The Non-Believers Trust", I think webwatch is the only member right now. But, don't worry about that just yet. I need some time as the whole plan is programmed for November and this is "first blood" well in advance.

Quite right-I'm still the only member of "The Non-Believers Trust©"I think, but its an open trust you can come and go as you please, no need to register-In fact you can even give money to good causes without any input or manipulation from us, In fact give as much as you like to who you like we won't give anything back to you, in fact we don't even want to know about it.

We will soon be moving our headquaters to the Secret internet section-[SIPRNET] (Bet that gets you googling).

callmestupid

August 29th, 2006, 05:56 PM

Count me in as the 2nd member of the "Non-believers trust" ! I don't know what your point is in all of this NON SENCE!!

You sound like some teenager who is suspended from school (Probably for scamming other studants out of thier lunch money) And you don't have anything else better to do than to be annoying!

I hope your parents get a visit from your local police department for INTENT OF FRAUD!!!! (On your behalf). You just might turn around in you chair at the computer and see the PD standing in your doorway!:)

Let's see how GIVING you are THEN! WIll you be willing to give them your computer so they can see what you've been doing?

I HOPE SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Believer

August 29th, 2006, 06:24 PM

How old do you have to be to be grownup? Do you have to be weaned before you are considered to be grownup? I guess I'm not grown up yet!

Good to see my ploy is working, I see you are dreaming but the difference is I dream at night, not while I'm typing.

That's "The Non-Believers Trust(c)" not "Non-believers trust" ... get it right! If you want to join something know what you are joining before you join. You don't want to be scammed again now do you?

My point is, I'm an instigator (it got me banned at TG), how close am I here? 1 to 10 = ?

callmestupid

August 29th, 2006, 06:30 PM

I"ve Had Evough Of Your Stupidity! This Is The Last Time I Waste With The Likes Of You!

Get A Real Life And Go Somewhere Else! On Second Thought, Stay Here, Keep Posting Until You're Caught

Good Bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Believer

August 29th, 2006, 06:35 PM

Now, you can't call me stupid because I'm not smart enough to be called stupid. So there!

Do you know other people the "likes of me"? Take my advice don't marry one!

How many thoughts do you have at one time? It's best to stick with your 1st thought so my psychiatrist says.

Dreamer

August 29th, 2006, 06:51 PM

Believer

August 29th, 2006, 07:01 PM

Believer kinda sounds like somebody from the past...i cant place a name to him. I'm not sure if "Sir Somebody" is the same person that i'm thinking of. He was trying to start a matrix site, and pretty quickly his identity got busted, and he just started spamming the forums with phrases like "I am a loser" or something like that.

Wasn't me, i don't call other people losers or stupid or things like that, some people are just genetically deficient, (usually by choice), but not losers.

My Identity can easily be found by visiting the URL and looking at the bottom of the page and or doing a "whois" deal, so I'm told. I don't care who knows me or what I'm doing on the web. The legalities will be taken care of by others.

You of course will shortly have my private phone number, name and what ever else you want including a check.

Be nice to the folks that post because some are mad at the world because of their past decisions and are losing out on other real opportunities because of one bad decision they made in life. I, myself, feel for them. You have proven to be the exception ... don't lose your dream!

*****************
People who are successful can't just work to become rich, but rather associate themselves with those who are rich.
Clayton

Webwatch

August 29th, 2006, 07:12 PM

Thank you callmestupid for joining.

Believer:
At the risk of turning this thread into total anarchy, as founder member of
The Non-Believers Trust© the name is unimportant, in fact didn't you consider calling the belivers trust the gifting trust or vice versa.

Anyway you can be a member of the The Non-Believers Trust© ( or NBT) without even knowing it, maybe its time to consider a manifest as membership has doubled:

1. NBT does not believe in giving and expecting something in return.

2. NBT does not believe in financial manipulation in order to increase any gesture of goodwill.

3. NBT does not believe in new members subsidising old members in any way.

Just the 3 for now.
As membership is open to all and there is no governing body in place, members can join or leave at anytime without any fear of repercussions.

A small request:
As this thread is getting a little personal please keep all comments on topic and related to the scheme in question, that goes for me as well of course.

Believer

August 29th, 2006, 07:18 PM

As this thread is getting a little personal please keep all comments on topic and related to the scheme in question, that goes for me as well of course.

Per your quote above: That was why I was asking how close I was to getting banned in an earlier post ... I saw this developing.

BTY: Do I get a referral fee for doubling your membership?

Do I have to walk the plank? This forum is full of sharks, and I could be eaten alive.

The URL has an added "countdown" ticker, not for the start of the program, but the end of this thread.

Webwatch

August 29th, 2006, 07:39 PM

Why would you want to be banned-I thought you came here to instigate discussion in your scheme.
Taking the easy route to try and get banned is just giving up.

If you don't want to post don't, how about starting a thread to discuss your baccarat technique as a side topic.

Do you have any other colleagues involved in your potential scheme who can come here to give you support or just add their point of view.

Addition:
BTY: Do I get a referral fee for doubling your membership?
Sorry no-That falls under points 2 & 3 of the manifest

Believer

August 29th, 2006, 07:54 PM

I don't want to get banned, just thought it might have been getting close as I thought CMS was a moderator.

Baccarat thread could be started under what topic on the home page? And, I can I add the URL, in other topics it was deleted ...?

Yes, I do have other associates that could make post, but I started the thread to get recommendations and suggestions from NEW BLOOD.
I knew it would cause them to be bashed and don't want them involved. I've even asked Dreamer to take a back seat right now. I got one member, and referred one to you. You need to do your part now!

Webwatch

August 29th, 2006, 08:09 PM

I got one member, and referred one to you. You need to do your part now!That would be covered by point 1 of the manifest, see how hard it is to join.

There is a section under off topic discussion which I suppose is as good as any. http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=74

As far as Moderators goes I'm sure there are some around but why delibaretly try to get yourself banned as we all have to obey the rules and Matrixwatch is excellent at allowing freedom of speech, I'm starting to enjoy these chats so don't leave just yet.

Believer

August 29th, 2006, 08:25 PM

I'm here til I'm banned.

OK, I'll look at the link.

- Proposed to open in November

ycchen

August 30th, 2006, 12:47 AM

Believer, you must know that MMG people will not like your idea of selling your ponzi scheme on MatrixWatch, right?

And you now very well that your only chance of getting the initial donation is from the habitual ponzi players at MMG, plus probably a few deceived Chritian newbies.

Those habitual ponzi players at MMG will not like too much negativity attached to your ponzi program, so if you want their money (seed money as they call it), then you should probably stay away from MarixWatch. ;)

I guess you are right, you are either not that smart or too smart. One thing for sure, your ponzi scheme will not fly because as long as those habitual ponzi players don't join you in the beginning, no one will, except for a few deceived newbees, perhaps.

The standard fomular to "jump start" a ponzi is to get 500 habitual ponzi players to dump their seed money and set the ponzi in motion.

When the ponzi starts rolling, more inexperience players will start to invest after the first week, or the greedy players will start to reinvest, and the ponzi schemes usually stagnant in less than 3 months. The desperate latecomers will begin to get their relatives, friends and colleagues to donate to the dying ponzi scheme in order to bail themselves out.

Get paid in the first few hours or few days is the only incentive that those players are looking at. After getting the seed money back, they will also promote the ponzi to squeeze more money from the latecomers. That's how the ponzi games (or an euphamized word -- HYIPS) are played there days.

Stay positive is the formula to "jump-start" a ponzi (or so called HYIPS), and everyone at MMG knows that. ;)

That is why I think you have absolutely NO idea of how to run a ponzi by the book. It must be your first ponzi, right?

Anyways, good luck to wasting your time ;)

ycchen

August 30th, 2006, 01:51 AM

I just visited the babypips (http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=98464&hl=) thread on MMG. It is a complete joke even for the MMG people ... lol.

I suggest that we don't waste time on this lousy and boring ponzi that don't even raise a bit interest of the habitual ponzi players.

Dealing with a more challenging ponzi is more fun, really. ;)

Believer, if you want to scam the first 50 people with $500 each ($25,000) in november and dissappear (that's your exit plan), you need to do better than what you have now.

Your ponzi plan is a complete joke, and if you are lucky, you might scam $500 or $1000. :shake:

People, let's keep our eyes focus on more important players out there who really have real (negaitve) impact on people's life.

Believer, please take your ponzi and go somewhere else because no one is interested in a joke, believe me. :)

sisco50

August 30th, 2006, 07:50 AM

This thread has degenerated into something I expect to see at places like TG and MMG. How sad. :(

Believer

August 30th, 2006, 08:29 AM

This thread has degenerated into something I expect to see at places like TG and MMG. How sad. :(

Who is the bad apple that made it get that way? (I know you will say ME!)

I have a "red flag" up which should help people decide if they want to join the program when it opens. I'm not trying to promote the plan, only trying to get some feedback as to how to give the money away when the "proposed" program opens in November.

I'm not spamming forums at every link, but have certain threads at each site. I knew that this site was the "protector of the masses", and was the hero to keep anyone from joining certain programs... mine included.

I think I see the problem, most if not all that visit this forum have been scammed so many times that they are leary of everything. The less you know about a program the more you trust it. People want to find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but don't want the rain to show them where it is.

I appreciate your comments, and as you can see we are getting away from bashing and I'm getting suggestions and comments on what to expect when it opens (no members joining). By that, I can see where my plan will last for years. My plan could be the longest running plan in the history of hyips. You have to look on the bright side ... Thanks for letting me know.

Believer

August 30th, 2006, 08:38 AM

People, let's keep our eyes focus on more important players out there who really have real (negaitve) impact on people's life.

Is that a "cheerleading" comment regarding my proposed plan because I haven't produced the )negative( impact just yet? No one has lost anything and I'm stil giving away $50 for comments.

$50 for a comment and a $1.00 test spend will still be profitable ... wouldn't you agree?

I'm glad you read MMG post and saw the humor in it, you said it was a joke. Most people don't understand my jokes, and it's good someone in this arena sees the humor. That makes you my friend.

I'm always focused on the positive!

Believer

August 30th, 2006, 10:22 AM

This will be my FINAL comment and post for a few days. I have business to take care of and this will explain to new viewers the underlying concept and approach we are taking.

We have offshore ventures of a private nature that are generating profits. We allot a certain amount of funds for advertising for this reason: We wish to acquire a larger base of membership that can help find larger clients with $1,000,000 or more to place.

The proposed program is our way of passing on a "reward" to the WHOLE membership base for the efforts of some of the members finding large dollar clients to be placed. The membership shares equally - some do the work, others do nothing and benefit just the same.

By offering $50 by using advertising dollars and allowing anyone to receive it, such as you making a post and allowing you to test spend $1.00 to see if the plan works is worth you joining if for no other reason than increasing you e-gold account another $50 for doing practically nothing except "believe". It also increases the base membership looking for a large dollar client ... Baby Pips did just that back in late 2005.

The program proposed is our way of giving to the membership monies for some of the members efforts in helping find large dollar clients. We then pass along to every member, even those that had no hand in helping find the large dollar client, a percentage to keep them on board and eventually they may tell someone else to join that MAY KNOW someone with $1,000,000 or more.

There is NO RISK in the above proposed plan - if you see a risk, make a comment and get your $50.00. It's simply up to you to do it.

Is that simple enough?

Believer

No spaming business url's

Arzel

August 30th, 2006, 11:10 AM

There is NO RISK in the above proposed plan - if you see a risk, make a comment and get your $50.00. It's simply up to you to do it.

There is no such thing as no risk, unless you have your money in an FDIC bank. This should be the only warning needed.

Baby PIPS is a SCAM in the making. Anyone even thinking about investing should immediately consult their physician and have their head examined. Everything Believer has said is not believable in the least.

Believer

September 1st, 2006, 09:51 AM

There is no such thing as no risk, unless you have your money in an FDIC bank. This should be the only warning needed.

Baby PIPS is a SCAM in the making. Anyone even thinking about investing should immediately consult their physician and have their head examined. Everything Believer has said is not believable in the least.

This isn't an investment - you missed the point completely.

Yes there are "no risk" opportunities. But, some people are to bullheaded to admit it, some don't recognize it when they see it, others don't have the initial capital to participate, then some believe the governing authorities when they say "if it sounds too good to be true then it is". Mind control keeps most Americans thinking poor - that's why they allow you to participate in hyips.

Baby PIPS isn't a scam in the making as they have been around several years. It's not something new in the making - it already exists and is VERY successful.

Doctors don't examine heads, psychiatrist do that - in case you either didn't know or couldn't spell it and changed your comment.

Have you even read the information site? (URL REMOVED) The admin removed all the links most likely to end this thread.

TSG is the entity that is taking over and paying out all the membership benefits and that entity was started back in 1992. The concept was to setup a base of individuals to seek out clients and get them placed. In 1996 several members broke away and started their own groups but used TSG to place their clients. Now, in 2006, 10 years later we are pulling all of the other groups back under one roof - headquarterd in London.

One needs to read the URL to understand the overall concept that has made many members and others very wealthy in the past through the various groups all under one main entity. Post at this site were made to introduce it to the hyip arena.

Do you ever think about the future of hyips? They are unsecure and ALL will eventurally pass away. There is a big world out there hyipers don't know about, this plan is allowing very small fund players a chance to unlock that door to something real much bigger than what most are use to.

Personally, I wish the "dreamers" the best.

Clayton

Only if your heart "believes" it will you ever achieve it.

Webwatch

September 1st, 2006, 10:15 AM

Hello Believer,
The URL's where removed as they where against the Matrixwatch TOU, nothing to do with having the thread closed.

There is enough information here for people to find your webpage if they want to without the easy option of just clicking on a link.

Taking the links away removes the need to just use this thread as an advertising platform and allows hopefully a more honest debate.
As time goes by I hope to keep this thread updated with the progression or collapse of Babypips as you can as well if you wish.

Any newcomers can also ask you questions here and get both sides of the argument which will allow them to make a more informed choice.

Arzel

September 1st, 2006, 10:25 AM

This isn't an investment - you missed the point completely.

Yes there are "no risk" opportunities. But, some people are to bullheaded to admit it, some don't recognize it when they see it, others don't have the initial capital to participate, then some believe the governing authorities when they say "if it sounds too good to be true then it is". Mind control keeps most Americans thinking poor - that's why they allow you to participate in hyips.

Baby PIPS isn't a scam in the making as they have been around several years. It's not something new in the making - it already exists and is VERY successful.

Doctors don't examine heads, psychiatrist do that - in case you either didn't know or couldn't spell it and changed your comment.

It is an investment, just because you fail to call it one, does not change the fact that this is how people treat it.

I don't have to listen to the government, I can listen to my finacial advisers who actually know how financial markets work. If they say scam, then I tend to believe them.

As for a Physician versus a Psychiatrist, Physician is correct. Anyone that invests in this scheme should get their head examined, not to see if they are crazy, but to make sure their brain is still safely stored inside, because I have a feeling there is probably a potatoe instead.

Additionally, There is no such thing as "No Risk". There is always risk, this is a universal truth, and anyone claiming otherwise is either uninformed regarding risk, or trying to scam you out of your money.

Believer

September 1st, 2006, 11:36 AM

Your thinking is in only one realm.

I own a transportation company that is pre-paid by a contract BEFORE any truck takes a load. That's a 'no risk' investment on my companies part. Do you know what PRE-PAID means?

None of the members or potential members have ever or will ever have a risk by participating under the stipulations imposed through TSG. Even the employees are paid from the profits of the company - they have no risk of not being paid.

If a person joins, he or she is paid in advance for his future efforts in advance - pre-paid!

The plan TSG has is the same as the example above of owning a company that has contracts pre-paid before the service is done and all backed by a contract. None of the employees are at risk that work for us at the various offices - same for any member that joins with us from this hyip arena.

Do you see, the driver of the truck of my trucking company is "risking" as you say not getting paid for his work - which is actually not true because the load he is hauling is pre-paid. But, in your realm of thinking the member that joins TSG is taking a risk by being a member - which is actually not ture, because he or she is pre-paid by contract only from a different industry.

In the financial and banking industry there are also 'no risk' transactions that very few know about because they can't prove qualification. All of this is done by using professionals such as financial advisors which you state that you use; the only thing, one must have sufficient funds to enter such a program -not secret and with contracts BEFORE any transactions are completed. The client uses the banking professionals to accomplish his goals just like you stated you do with financial advisors. There is no difference except the client uses a much larger amount of funds.

TSG does not offer investments, but rather offers a service to clients that can qualify to be intruduced to the banking professionals, and commissions are derived from those services which pays the admin as well as the membership. It takes employees and members as "BIRD DOGS" in order to surface qualified clients. There is no risk on the members part what-so-ever.

I presume that the "measuring stick" we use to pass out the memberships share is what you call an investment. Since a member may be wanting to participate in the commissions and do nothing except receive a share, we have to have some way to determine what to pass out to such a member, so we use a "no risk" good faith deposit which represents his or her BELIEF. That deposit is not sent to an unknown hyip, but rather to someone they know and have a phone number and address. The "measuring stick" (good faith deposit) is returned after being processed by TSG along with their share of the commissions pre-earned by TSG's entities and groups. The member, just like the "driver" of one of my trucks, is PRE-PAID and guaranteed by contract.

You see, by paying the membership in advance of thier efforts to tell others in the hyip arena isn't new, it was done long ago by TSG. It took many years to acquire clients that entered and re-enter over and over. It may take just as long to develop a base in this arena and acquire qualified clients, but it will happen. And, at a "no risk" to the hyip arena membership.

This concept is understood by those with an elevated level of thinking regarding this arena. It's kinda hard to explain.

I'm sure you can understand this, every person that does a certain job, whatever it may be, has a different "aire" of thinking which others around them don't understand. You know what I mean! Doctors think different than their patients, lawyers have a different way of thinking, politicians think different ... every profession has what they call professionals because of their "way of thinking". That's why you consult so called professions - because of their way of thinking based upon their knowledge.

BOTTOM LINE:

TSG has been around for a long time, and with expansion of the base membership that is essential to the overall plan and concept, it will be around for many years to come. Everyone is paid - Admin (61 employees from 8 groups), employees (61), members = 812 (client finders) ... hyip arena potential members 78 thus far.

Believer
(url not allowed by admin)

Believer

September 1st, 2006, 10:30 PM

[QUOTE=Webwatch]Hello Believer,
The URL's where removed as they where against the Matrixwatch TOU, nothing to do with having the thread closed.

WebWatch, I was warned last night by Donna that you were going to do this (right after she slapped me silly). It's good to have a spy inside on my side.lol

I've added a BRIEF SUMMARY just to the left of the information page that takes only 1 minute to read - read it and see if you get the jest of the full page.

UPDATE: FROM THE LAW FIRM HANDLING COMMISSIONS COMMING IN FROM VARIOUS INVESTMENTS.

TBT will have some funds around the 20th of this month (September) and the "comment posters" will be paid then, or at least we will pay up to that date at that time, and beyond as they qualify. This should give you some way of measuring the validity of what I've stated.

As you can tell, and like you said, go to bed thinking about it and sleep on it and I'll come up with a solution. Actually, I gave too much information based upon conversations with investors and others and simply presented it wrong starting out. Now, it's like it was back in 1992. I have records from back then still filed away - somewhere!!:crazy:

I've made a humorous comment within the information site pages about The Non-Believers Trust if you read the whole site again.: OH! nono:

Thanks WW,

Edited due to SPELLIN' ERRORS!

Clayton

Webwatch

September 2nd, 2006, 04:48 AM

An update from your alleged Law Firm who cannot be named, does this mean you will be starting your scam sooner than expected.

You've used this 'No-Risk' phrase a few times so could you explain how someone who send's you their money and you hold it for 10 days is experiencing 'No-Risk' as surely making a Good Faith Deposit means there is an element of trust and as investors don't know you personnaly they are taking a chance and therefore a risk that during the 10 day waiting period they may lose their money.

Nice to see 'The Non Belivers Trust©' get refferred to and of course we have zero position in your plan as we cannot give and expect to receive.

Sorry: No dodgy links allowed in signatures either but anyone can PM you for the link if they want it.

Believer

September 2nd, 2006, 12:28 PM

An update from your alleged Law Firm who cannot be named, does this mean you will be starting your scam sooner than expected.

Come on now WW, it's against our law firms TOU to post his name all over the web. And, it's yet to be proven to be a "scam". When and if an "investor" steps forward and proves qualification to participate then the attorney will take calls. When the real funds arrive in October, I'll send you a copy of the bank statement just to take the "non" off your (c) plan.

You've used this 'No-Risk' phrase a few times so could you explain how someone who send's you their money and you hold it for 10 days is experiencing 'No-Risk' as surely making a Good Faith Deposit means there is an element of trust and as investors don't know you personnaly they are taking a chance and therefore a risk that during the 10 day waiting period they may lose their money.

You are beginning to get to know me, I haven't changed my story, and before anyone deals with me, there will be others surfaced that can vouch for me; besides didn't everyone here send this "what's his name" that ran PIPS hundreds of thousands of dollars, I'm only asking for $1.00 to a maximum of $500. When it starts, you'll see. My level of trust will be way ahead of the level of your Good Faith Deposit with me. As many will have gone ahead of anyone on this board.

Nice to see 'The Non Belivers Trust©' gets refferred to and of course we have zero position in your plan as we cannot give and expect to receive.

And, I don't expect you to give in order to receive, nor anyone else. The GFD is, as I've said many times over and over, a way for us to measure your "Believers" level status so you as a member can receive a percentage of the proceeds coming to us from real investors placed by the groups under TSG. The base of membership seeks out qualified clients and they are placed into real programs. Any member with only a $1 placement will be compensated. After the 3rd month he would have doubled his money.
I KNOW YOU DON'T BELIEVE THIS, BUT FOR THOSE WHO "WILL AT SOME POINT" SEE IT HAPPENING TO OTHERS MAY HAVE TO CHANGE THEIR LEVEL OF THINKING - MAYBE COME FEBRUARY 07' THERE WILL BE MORE "Believers" than "non-Believers".

EXAMPLE:

A member places (I'll use a multiple of 10) $100 as a good faith deposit, GFD, this member will have my name, phone number, physical address, blood type, the time I used the bathroom last, and anything else he may desire BEFORE making his e-gold spend. Plus, maybe he will have a friend ahead of him that went before - I'll call this individual a follower not a leader. A doubting Thomas, but never the less a member. When he see's for himself, then he will be a "Believer"

I, as the signatory over The Believers Trust, will send the member a Bank check, Cashiers Check, Money Order, or any form of financial instrument he or she so desires, or may even drive in my motor home to see the member if he or she is close enough, and have it hand delivered.

The FIRST time the member will receive 50% commissions for being a member and sharing in past rewards for the members placing a client. The $50 is 50% of a doubling amount of his "Believers" status level. Now that is good for 60 days, on the beginning of the 3rd month or 61st day, the member makes a GFD of $100 again, within 10 days after that, he will receive another 50% reward and at this point he/she has DOUBLED their money. Not through an investment, but being pre-paid for their future effort of seeking out others that want to be clients.

Many entities such as PIPS advertises, we do the same, but we pay the members for their efforts in helping seek out real clients to be placed in real programs. The REWARD is paid to the member to help seek out real clients so ALL the members can benefit.

This small venture is to generate a base of individuals that can be "BIRD DOGS" seeking out real clients from the HYIP ARENA. Any client that brings forth a client, ALL members share in the "referral commissions" derived from the clients placements.

I simply wish to open the membership in the hyip arena. We have 812 members that know nothing about hyips.

Sorry: No dodgy links allowed in signatures either but anyone can PM you for the link if they want it.

BOTTOM LINE:

Rewards for being a member is paid in advance of the member doing his duty of seeking out a client. Over 93% of the current members have never referred anyone, but are receiving compensation should eventually they come across someone who might want to be a client.

This venture has a selected amount to be given it as an advanced cleint funds that will be available November. TSG has many clients placed and are paying the current members form past clients placed.

We will be consolidating all small groups that came about by members breaking away into other groups and place them back under the original entity ... The SAM Group, Co. Well over (well, I won't even go there) is coming in per month. They even loan funds to members to start businesses and with no overhead, a business usually won't fail. I don't know what part of a business is paid back to TSG, but I do know they are very profitable.

Anyway, I think I've covered it all again. If someone feels that a $1 GFD is risky, think about how it would effect the plan if I FAILED to honor their status and not pay. Yes, it's a 'NO RISK' GFD ... I GUARANTEE IT!

Thanks,

Clayton L.P.

Webwatch

September 2nd, 2006, 01:36 PM

I know I keep mentioning this Law firm but I'm not after the name of the Individual attorney just the firm they work for or is there no firm at all and its just an individual.

Regarding PIPS I don't think everyone here sent them money, I didn't but then I can only speak for myself.

Rewards for being a member is paid in advance of the member doing his duty of seeking out a client. Over 93% of the current members have never referred anyone, but are receiving compensation should eventually they come across someone who might want to be a client.

Is this a new bit because I thought investors just had to send money and get back a 50% dividend in 10 days and their full initial stake after 60 days, so it's now their duty to get others involved. Are you hoping that enough get involved untill that one big mark arrives who's going to make that huge deposit.
A few days ago this was all just a gifting scheme not its turning into a referral scheme.

The personnal guarantees you give may look convincing but I still have doubts, maybe thats just me.

You mention The Sam Group is this the same group who had this on their home page: All you have to do to have your FREE web page set up through TSG is become a member, make a minimum of $2K deposit, and ALL of your clients will be covered by our GUARANTEE. Should your program fail, or falter for any reason, TSG will take over using the returns from your deposit to make the payments to them. Your DEPOSIT will be returned at the end of the term if the obligations have been satisfactorily met by that time. Otherwise, it will be extended until ALL obligations to your clients have been met. YOU DO NOT LOSE YOUR DEPOSIT REGARDLESS OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE FAILURE OF YOUR PLAN. That is as long as ALL obligations to the clients who entered through your personal web page through TSG have been fulfilled. We are here to help, not cheat you or steal from you. YES, you as the Admin will receive the returns each month until your plan fails, then we take over for those members that entered your web page through TSG. All other members are at your mercy. You lose nothing by having an entry page through TSG, and the members have a fail-safe entity to protect their principle while participating through your plan. It's all FREE, you have nothing to lose and your members have everything to gain.,
Not a very optimistic outlook, maybe thats just me again.

Whatever happened to this scheme, is it still going strong.

Believer

September 2nd, 2006, 06:51 PM

I know I keep mentioning this Law firm but I'm not after the name of the Individual attorney just the firm they work for or is there no firm at all and its just an individual.

The law firm WILL NOT BE MENTIONED HERE - CASE CLOSED! [B] Sorry for the harsh words, not meant personal ww. Any client that needs the information will be provided the information; all they need to do is provide a POF to me.

Regarding PIPS I don't think everyone here sent them money, I didn't but then I can only speak for myself.

[B]Seems most of the post were about PIPS, so there, I'm presuming something not true, just like people are presuming something not true about me.

Is this a new bit because I thought investors just had to send money and get back a 50% dividend in 10 days and their full initial stake after 60 days, so it's now their duty to get others involved.

WW, it's always been the intent, it started in 1992 with TSG!! Where I went wrong is by giving out information and paraphrasing it about conversations I had with clients and their intent, and reason for wanting the commissions earned to go for a specific purpose. I gave out too much information and "no one believes it" That's their problem.

Are you hoping that enough get involved untill that one big mark arrives who's going to make that huge deposit.

Yes, if you want to call the client a "mark", that's OK, all past clients are very satisfied with the trading entity they are dealing with that we refer them to. We don't take up-front funds from anyone, and are paid by the trading entity - NOT THE MARK! (CLIENT).

A few days ago this was all just a gifting scheme not its turning into a referral scheme.

NO, NO, :nono: NO, NO, :nono: , NO NO NO ... no!!!!

Gifting was the way it was explained ... people know how gifting works, that was just the way it was explained, comparing it to something people know about. THAT IS WHAT GOT ALL THE BAD COMMENTS. The poster simply didn't read the information page before making a comment.

The personnal guarantees you give may look convincing but I still have doubts, maybe thats just me.

It's not "just you", it's EVERYONE!

A personal guarantee is just that, "my guarantee", I have plenty of money that I wish to "tithe" and I will send it to whomever I wish, I don't give it to a church that preaches false doctrine. I know the TRUTH!

If anyone doesn't wish to take my guarantee for 10 days, then ... so be it! It's their loss, and I can give the money to a "Believer".

You mention The Sam Group is this the same group who had this on their home page:
Not a very optimistic outlook, maybe thats just me again.

Whatever happened to this scheme, is it still going strong.

WW, yes, it is going strong. Come November, ALL membership, including new members from this HYIP ARENA will fall under TSG. YES, they are backing a few (ponzi Admin) and paying their members when the plan fails with the returns from their investment deposit - similar to an insurance plan.

DEFINATELY, it pays, you wont hear from Admins that do these things because we are sure they are skimming off the top, so to speak! But, their members are being paid back their investment - by TSG. NOW, don't ask me to verify this statement either.

BOTTOM LINE:

Come November the plan will open to new membership that wishes to find (marks - your description, not mine) clients that wish to be introduced to a trading entity that they can deal with direct. If that (mark - your description of a real investor) client proceeds, he does it by signing a contract with the trading entity directly. TSG acts ONLY as an introducer after receiving the proper documentation to send to the trading entity for evaluation and acceptance. We have approximately 75% fail to quality for entry and are declined by the trading entity.

Our plan does not offer investments to the membership, if they so desire to, they can then be given protocol to enter such a relationship with the "trading entity" direct. At that time, a member client, will be given FULL DISCLOSURE and determine if he/she wishes to proceed. If not, a DOCUMENT will be signed by the MEMBER client that has penalties accessed against them if they divulge any of the investment full disclosure information. We take what we are doing very serious as far as placing a client is concerned, and that is done through the law firm - which our lawyer is the firms CEO.

We do not deal with one attorney law firms, nor a firms minor partners. This is serious business!!!!

I don't know how else to say this: We have clients that have been working with our offshore trading entity for over 11 years now, and many are re-entering over and over. The trading entity pays TSG directly - the client is not obligated to pay TSG - and we take a portion of those commissions and pay the various groups that introduced the clients to TSG, and pass out a part to each member based upon a "measurement" (GFD) that each member decides for himself up to a maximum of 500 points. Which equates to $125 for about 93% of the members per month for doing nothing. 7% of the members take an active part in TSG. Each member re-evaluates their "Believers" standing every 60 days. Some don't keep up and call us because they forgot to re-enter asking why they didn't get their payment. We advise them to read the UPDATE page and do what they need to do. If they forget to re-enter, they are forgetting that their duty is to help surface new clients. After 10 months, or 5 entries for "Believers" status level, they are released as a member. They lost nothing, and gained $1,250 though membership. TSG added this stipulation this back in March because of complaints from other members wanting to raise the percentage to 35% from 25%. It will take until February 07' before the numbers will work out to where it can be done presuming no new clients are added.

I'm :head: banging my head against a wall trying to give away money to new individuals - I guess! We have over 80 standing in line for their $50 for making a comment at any web site they want. Many are negative that have asked for the money. Out of the 80, I guess we will have about 4 that will be true members and have faith.

We simply wish to enter the hyip arena, not with a hyip plan or gifting plan, but add hyip players to the "bird dogs" to help us surface real clients for placement direct.

It's worked in the past, and I know it will work in the arena where there is so much negative thinking.:evil:

No one needs to deal with the law firm direct except the clients, the members aren't asked to invest, one sends an amount based upon their level of faith so we can pay them accordingly. Any member that sends $1 doesn't have much faith, and we pay him accordingly. That leaves more funds for those that have higher levels of faith in us.

And, those that introduce clients are well compensated by having a credit of 5% of the funds placed by the client added to his membership account and paid 25% of that amount over and above his "Believer" status level. That's the compensation plan and has worked in the past with TSG members and will work with the new members that come to us from the hyip arena.

We aren't opening a NEW PLAN or HYIP; we are only opening membership to this arena that already has "civilian" membership and not "hardened hyiper vetrans". Don't any of you understand this point? We want to give these new members something to "Believe" in!

We are going to satasify you whether or not you want to be satisfied or not!

I'm going to do it, if for no other reason than ---...--- SPITE! Stand back and watch me!

Webwatch

September 3rd, 2006, 06:36 AM

The law firm WILL NOT BE MENTIONED HERE - CASE CLOSED! [b] Sorry for the harsh words, not meant personal ww. Any client that needs the information will be provided the information; all they need to do is provide a POF to me.

Well I suppose we never going to get the name of the law firm involved so its best to move past this even though being unable to name it puts everything you say in doubt, and I don't take anything posted personal, we are all just words on a page as I said at the beginning.

Believer you certainly talk a good scheme but whether you will find at least one HYIP forum to take you seriously is extremely doubtfull but maybe I'm giving them to much credit.

As far as your scheme goes I could do exactly the same i.e. send me $100 and after 10 days I will give you $50 back, in fact I could keep this up forever unless I went mad buying expensive cars and other large items.
The problems will start to arise at the 60 day point when you have to start giving members their full investment back.

If you do get your scheme off the ground then you will have some cheerleaders who can say they got there 50% back in 10 days which anyone could do, the problem arrives at the 60 day (I'll call it a Cycle point) period when the first members need to be paid and every day after that you will need to pay out more than was taken in so your members can be cycled.

I'm sure you hope as all Ponzi's do that enough members keep joining so you can build up a large enough amount to run away with and members that have cycled will reinvest but the fact will always be that your model is unsustainable and even if there was a large benefactor who wants to give away millions of $$ your plan would still eventually fail.

In fact the only thing that sets your scheme apart from many other ponzi's is this supposed large investor although I'm sure its been used before.

Using biblical words like "tithe" may help get the church going members on board but it will always be a Ponzi scheme nothing more nothing less.

Then you ask for members to have faith in you which leads us back to trust/risk again, even through all the smoke and mirrors put up all you have is a basic HYIP set up using new members money to pay off early ones, in the highly unlikely event that your scheme does take off and your benefactor does excist eventually your scheme will still fail, because you will never be able to close the scheme and stop new investments for 60 days so you can pay every one off that joined in the final 60 days.

Obviously this is just my opinion but anyone who is going to join your scheme (see Potatoe between the ears post earlier) needs to know that there is a liklehood that funds will dry up before their 60 day period elapses.
Maybe you need to add a disclaimer to your webpage outlining this possibility.
A lot of ponzi's/Pyramid schemes do this because they know it doesn't get read, using small print and long words usually helps.

I haven't even got round to the fact that your website doesn't even have its own server space and uses Homestead (a free online webpage service). Doesn't your supposed Transport company have a server you could use.

Or that you made a reference on your webpage to the Non Believers Trust an organisation invented in this thread.

As time passes you may realise that you are venturing down a path that there is no return from.

Believer

September 3rd, 2006, 11:13 AM

Well I suppose we never going to get the name of the law firm involved NOT TRUE so its best to move past this even though being unable to name it puts everything you say in doubt, and I don't take anything posted personal, we are all just words on a page as I said at the beginning. That's comforting to me

Believer you certainly talk a good scheme Thanksbut whether you will find at least one HYIP forum to take you seriously is extremely doubtfull but maybe I'm giving them to much credit. Hyips sites take scams serious - and you claim I'm one, so I see no problem there.

As far as your scheme goes I could do exactly the same i.e. send me $100 and after 10 days I will give you $50 back, Why do folks miss my point, I've said it many many times, you get 150% within 10 days - NOT only 50% in fact I could keep this up forever unless I went mad buying expensive cars and other large items. OH! I've already done that, I purchased a $350K motor home just recently to travel and meet the membership..

The problems will start to arise at the 60 day point when you have to start giving members their full investment back. Again, it's not after 60 days that you get your principal back, it's within 10 days. The term is 60 days, not the pay back. The "term" is how long it takes before you can re-enter; otherwise, everyone would want to enter every 10 days and get 150% PROFIT every month. We simply pay ADVANCE COMMISSIONS - similar to a ponzi paying the principal plus 60 days in advance, and we know PONZI schemes don't work that way ... now don't we! Well, our plan will work that way ... wait and see!

If you do get your scheme off the ground then you will have some cheerleaders who can say they got there 50% back in 10 days which anyone could do, the problem arrives at the 60 day (I'll call it a Cycle point) period when the first members need to be paid and every day after that you will need to pay out more than was taken in so your members can be cycled. :nono: You still have it wrong. AFTER 10 days (usually within 10 days) you receive 150% of your Good Faith Deposit, GFD. Your account is sanctioned for 60 days - which means you can't re-eneter again or make another deposit, or raise your GFD for that term. Everything is closed out in 10 days - YOU ARE PAID IN ADVANCE FOR THE NEXT 60 DAYS along with your GFD back. Do you see 150% in 10 days to be considered your placement for 60 days? Please try to get this point straight..

I'm sure you hope as all Ponzi's do that enough members keep joining so you can build up a large enough amount to run away with and members that have cycled will reinvest but the fact will always be that your model is unsustainable and even if there was a large benefactor who wants to give away millions of $$ your plan would still eventually fail. I'm afraid that is untrue - If I'm paying within 10 days their GFD PLUS 50% profit, it should prove the funds are on hand to do so ... all funds that are giving away are PRE-EARNED. We do not use the GFD to re-pay ANY member we hold those funds, and The Believers Trust sends out the 150% from a separate account - commissions paid for placing a real client.

The 150% comes from pre-earned commissions already on hand in The Believers Trust to be disbursed, or will be come November when we open the plan. That is why we are waiting to open it in November and not opening it now. PLEASE, try to understand the above points.

In fact the only thing that sets your scheme apart from many other ponzi's is this supposed large investor NOT SUPPOSED, REAL INVESTORalthough I'm sure its been used before. You are correct, we have investors already in place AND their funds are earning TSG commissions to be passed out to those that helped surface him/her; right now, we are awaiting to be paid the commissions that will support our PRE-PAYMENT plan to the hyip arena come November.

AFTER THE FIRST 10 DAYS, anyone joining will know if the plan is in effect and working, or still working, because within 10 days, IF we did not pay 150% (term 60 days before the member can re-enter), it would be plastered all over the internet. Do you see, our plan doesn't have to go 60 days BEFORE anyone would know our plan was working. ONLY 10 is the length. The 60 day term comes into play to keep members from re-joining every 10 days or every month ... their account is sanctioned for 60 days - then they can up their deposit, GFD. PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS POINT.[/COLOR]

Using biblical words like "tithe" may help get the church going members on board but it will always be a Ponzi scheme nothing more nothing less. NOT TRUE!

WW, it makes me feel good to know my 10% is going to a good cause. It makes [B]me[B] feel good inside, if I tell you where the funds are coming from that's disclosure to you and it's TRUE. Sorry if it will only attract church goers, they deserve it too.

Then you ask for members to have faith in you which leads us back to trust/risk again, ONLY in the fact to determine their "Believer" status level - how much do they want to receive 50% commission on to be returned within 10 days along with your GFD. PLEASE, try to understand this point ... 150% is retuned within 10 days. The term 60 days means they can not raise the principal or re-enter for 60 days; as they received 150% within 10 days.even through all the smoke and mirrors put up all you have is a basic HYIP set up using new members money to pay off early ones, [COLOR="navy"]NOT TRUE - how can I sustain something that pays 150% within 10 days if it didn't have pre-earned commissions awaiting disbursement? in the highly unlikely event that your scheme does take off and your benefactor does excist eventually your scheme will still fail, [COLOR="navy"]AGAIN, if I pay 150% within 10 days IN ADVANCE, it would fail immediately if it WERE a ponzi scheme. So, how can I run such a scheme if it DIDN'T have pre-earnings received from commissions from real INVESTORS? PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION!!!because you will never be able to close the scheme and stop new investments for 60 days so you can pay every one off that joined in the final 60 days. WW, I like you, and I want you to understand that I will pay 150% back to the member WITHIN 10 DAYS AND IN ADVACE OF THE 60 DAY TERM EXPIRING after I have received their GFD to determine what amount of pre-paid commission YOU ARE TO RECEIVE IN ADVANCE for the next 60 day TERM. That is their GFD PLUS 50% within 10 days.

EXAMPLE: A member sends $10 as a GFD (Good Faith Deposit), within 10 days I will send him from The Believers Trust $15. HIS ACCOUNT IS SANCTIONED for 60 days - which means he can not take the $15 and resend it back after 10 days and receive $22.50 again in the next 10 days and then take the $22.50 and receive $33.75 the next 10 days... HIS ACCOUNT IS SANCTION FOR 60 DAYS ... This is where the 60 day term come into play. The plan will NOT sustain such a member or members, that is why the 60 day term is imposed.

Obviously this is just my opinion but anyone who is going to join your scheme (see Potatoe between the ears post earlier) needs to know that there is a liklehood that funds will dry up before their 60 day period elapses. No, if the funds dry up, then the membership will be closed and all GFD's would be returned. Do you think for one minute that if I didn't pay 150% to ONLY one member that it wouldn't be all over the sites within a 10 day period of time. It doesn't have to go 60 days to see if the plan is working - ONLY 10 days - then everyone would know ... do you understand this point ... yet?

Maybe you need to add a disclaimer to your webpage outlining this possibility. No disclaimer needed because their DEPOSIT is just that a deposit of their "Believers" status level. It is ONLY use to determine that particular members REWARD to be given him over the next 60 days. That is ALL the GDF is used for. Besides, he gets it back within 10 days along with the next 60 days commissions totaling 150% paid in ADVANCE. We have paid the member 60 days in advance and he/she has their account sanctioned for 60 days - meaning they can't raise their GFD until the 3rd month.

A lot of ponzi's/Pyramid schemes do this because they know it doesn't get read, using small print and long words usually helps. Not needed in our case. If we don't have funds on hand to PRE-PAY, then either the deposit would be returned or we would suspend NEW membership UNTIL funds arrived to PRE-PAY new membership again. Please try to understand this point.

I haven't even got round to the fact that your website doesn't even have its own server space and uses Homestead (a free online webpage service). Homestead isn't free ... go to their web site ... www.homestead.com ... I do my own information web page, but a professional site will be made by November - I hope!Doesn't your supposed Transport company have a server you could use. No! There is no web site for my company ... you don't need a web site for a small company. Load boards use such things. Besides, since getting involved in this, I have leased my trucks onto another company in Belzoni, MS - Spenser Transportation.

Or that you made a reference on your webpage to the Non Believers Trust an organisation invented in this thread. WW, it was in jest!!!!!!!lol Ha, ha!

As time passes you may realise that you are venturing down a path that there is no return from. If it is a path of NO RETURN, it will only be at 10 day path, not 60 days terms. How long do you think I could sustain a 150% payment if it didn't have somekind of backing? If I last 20 days or 30 days, and was relying on new members, it would fail quite quickly if it were a PONZI scheme. Now, don't you think?.

WW, I believe that once I can get it across to everyone, or explained that ANY Good Faith Deposit is just that, a deposit, and ONLY a deposit to determine the amount that will be PAID IN ADVANCE for being a member. The 150% will be paid from The Believers Trust within 10 days after the GFD is received using pre-earned commissions from placed clients. IF ONE CAN UNDERSTAND THIS POINT - the overall concept of the scheme may be understood much better.

No member is making an investment. (period). The new member is ONLY making a deposit to let us know "how much to pay him in advance, ... of what amount to pay him/her, ... his part of the pre-paid commissions he is due over the next 60 days ... that is all the GFD is used for, ... it is returned within 10 days along with a 50% commission in ADVANCE.

THE 60 DAY TERM is the time frame that the member CAN'T make another GFD (deposit).... He has already been paid, and within 10 days, 150% of his GFD measurement level. He just can't send back anymore funds to get paid 150% on that amount every 10 days - his account is sanctioned for 60 days, THEN the member can raise his "Believer" status level.

WHAT AM I FAILING TO SAY THAT WILL GET THIS POINT ACROSS?

Can you see the reason we are opening the plan in November is because that is when the commissions will be available to PRE-PAY within 10 days 150% to the member - 100% of his GFD back to the member, PLUS 50% as a 2 month advance payment to help surface 'INVESTORS". The member is not an investor, his "deposit" is our way to determine how much pre-paid advance commissions over the next 60 days he will be paid to help look for "investors". The member doesn't even have to look for "investors", he can simply take the pre-paid commissions as his share of SCAMMING us. We have no intent of scamming him/her. But it should be obvious by now, the member can SCAM us!!!!

Suppose that we do have many new members join with $500.00 and we don't pay within 10 days afterwards, the whole web would be lit up with NON-PAYMENT notifications along with my name, address, phone number, blood type and the such.

Or suppose only one member joins with a $1 deposit (GFD) and we do not pay, the whole web would be lit up with SCAM - non-payment. Do you think we could afford not to pay in the light of the reprocussions that would ensue?

We only have a 10 day time span of NON-PAYMENT before EVERYONE would know this was a scam. Do you see, we MUST pay 150% within 10 days AFTER the last member joins BEFORE the whole web would know we were a scam.

Unlike ponzi schemes, it may take months BEFORE anyone knows it was a SCAM.

With our plan, it ONLY takes a time frame of 10 days. I dare any ponzi scheme to do what we plan to do come NOVEMBER. I DARE ANYONE OF THEM TO DO THAT - PAY 60 DAYS IN ADVANCE ALONG WITH THE PRINCIPAL BACK UP FRONT - ESPECIALLY IF they allow the membership to know all contact information and personal phone numbers and such.

WW, please try to understand the above points and point out other observations that you may note.

I want EVERYONE to understand the above points made.

The membership can scam us by making a GFD AND receive their 50% profit along with their GFD back within 10day, open another acount and compound the return over and over. We are the one's that can be scammed ... not the other way around.

This is why we sanction a member for 60 days and he/she can't re-enter. It is also the reason that I will have personal phone contact with the member once his GFD reaches 500.

Everything is going well, and come November, the professional site will be up for all to see. If they don't want to join ... it's their choice. But, if they do, it's their gain. I'll talk personally to everyone of the new members and may even visit them ... that's why I purchased the motorhome so I could visit the membership all over the USA.

Thanks,

Clayton L. P., Signator Authority
The Believers Trust

Webwatch

September 3rd, 2006, 12:23 PM

Hi Believer,
Apologies for missunderstanding your plan, for some reason I had it fixed in my mind that investors only got 50% back after the 10 days and the initial investment back after 60 days.

What you are saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that all investors will get back 150% after 10 days and not be allowed to re-invest untill after 60 days.

So theoretically an investor could double their money in 70 day's if they reinvested.

How can this be pre-paid if an investor has to wait 10 days for their 150% back.

If your plan is going to be so stable why not send an investor 150% back as soon as they invest and then still not allow them back in untill 60 days have expired. Why the need to wait 10 days.

Believer

September 3rd, 2006, 12:59 PM

Hi Believer,
Apologies for missunderstanding your plan, That's OK WW, many that read the post get confused because I started the thread out on the wrong foot.for some reason I had it fixed in my mind that investors only got 50% back after the 10 days and the initial investment back after 60 days. The new members aren't investors, only members looking for "investors".

What you are saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that all investors will get back 150% after 10 days and not be allowed to re-invest untill after 60 days.
Yes, only the membership isn't an investor, their GFD is only an indication of how much we are to pay them in advance for the next 60 days. I' will receive their GFD into my personal account, then direct The Believers Trust to send them 150% of that amount. It's two separate entities. I'm not paying members back, I keep their deposit for my own purposes, The Believes Trust pays the 150% from it funds. Do you see, it's two separate entities?

So theoretically an investor could double their money in 70 day's if they reinvested. That is correct. That is why we sanction their account and they can't re-enter for 60 days. They can only make (using hyip language) placement per 60 days. Do you understand?

How can this be pre-paid if an investor has to wait 10 days for their 150% back?

WW, the term (using hyip language) is for 60 days. In a hyip, the investor would make a deposit wait 60 days to receive their 150%. It's pre-paid in the fact we do the above within 10 days - that pre-payment in advance as compared to a hyip. I don't want to get people confused, I'm ONLY using hyip terms to explain our plan.

If your plan is going to be so stable why not send an investor 150% back as soon as they invest and then still not allow them back in untill 60 days have expired. Why the need to wait 10 days.

Advance payment comes from pre-earned commissions, and the member is paid in ADVANCE of his 60 day term.

WW, please understand ... We ARE sending the (investor as you say) member within 10 days 150% as soon as they make their GFD and are NOT allowing them to re-enter until 60 days have expired.

The 10 day wait is to allow me time to process them into the new plan, direct TBT to send them 150% of the amount they made as a GFD. So, the member is paid in advance his (investment plus 2 months advance earnings - using hyip language) GFD, plus 50% as an advanced fee for helping us surface real investors. This 50% is his advance commissions on future work he/she will be doing as a member whether or not he/she does anything at all.

We pay the membership from pre-earned commissions which are being earned NOW. So, come November there will be pre-earned commissions to pass out to the membership within 10 days AFTER they join and make a GFD. Do you see how this is going to work now?

ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING IT"

This is the reason to wait 10 days - Once I receive the GFD, it will take me 10 days to authorize TBT to cut a check, make a money order, or other means of paying the member and getting it to him/her. I can use e-gold as well if theY like, but it will not be from the GFD's account WHICH arrives to my personal account.

You see!!! The Believers Trust will make the payment from past commissions earned (this is where the member is being paid by PRE-EARNED commissions and the member is also being paid in ADVANCE of his 60 day term expiring, and the member that made the deposit will receive 150% of his GFD from The Believers Trust, not where he/she sent their GFD.

That's about it ... please try to understand.

I have to leave now ... today is when they have the $50K drawing at the casino just 13 miles away. I'll check back later tonight after I win the drawing and make a comment. (I'm always thinking positive, that's why I'm not liked at this site by "negative" thinkers ... WW excluded.).

Best Wishes to you WW

Webwatch

September 3rd, 2006, 02:01 PM

Another question as I think I've now grasped your plan.

When The Believers Trust (TBT) is unable to pay new investors/members because funds have dried up will you use your own funds that the members have sent you to keep the plan going or just call it a day and close.
Yes, only the membership isn't an investor, their GFD is only an indication of how much we are to pay them in advance for the next 60 days. I' will receive their GFD into my personal account, then direct The Believers Trust to send them 150% of that amount. It's two separate entities. I'm not paying members back, I keep their deposit for my own purposes, The Believes Trust pays the 150% from it funds. Do you see, it's two separate entities?
The money that investors send you are these going to be given away to good causes and the needy as per the original plan and if so will you be able to provide proof of this or are we back to faith again.

Regarding Investors as I call them and Gifters/Believers/Good Faith Depositors as you call them I don't think well ever agree on the terminology maybe others can help decide which description is best.

Believer

September 3rd, 2006, 11:06 PM

Another question as I think I've now grasped your plan.

That great ... now that I've gotten it through to you, maybe others can understand it as well.

When The Believers Trust (TBT) is unable to pay new investors/members because funds have dried up will you use your own funds that the members have sent you to keep the plan going or just call it a day and close.

OK, now I SEE how you are thinking, I can clarify something.

FIRST, when commissions stop coming in because our present "investors" with over $1M placed stop re-entering, the plan is to not accept NEW GFD's. All members are paid in advance, so if we stop taking GFD's or return GFD's to members stating we have closed the plan, we owe no one anything, no one will lose.

You see, GFD's are the deposits that determines what we will pay 50% commissions on over the next 60 days - all paid in advance of the 60 days expiring. If funds dry up, we simply STOP accepting new "Believer level standing" deposits or "Good Faith Deposits, GFD's.

To answer the question "when the funds have dried up", well if they do, then we will NOT accept any memers GFD's come the next 60 days. There are no plans to accept any funds from the membership when 150% of what we take in as a GFD isn't available and already on hand in The Believers Trust. That is why we aren't opening the plan until November. There aren't any funds available for this project in The Believers Trust right now at the present time. Unlike a ponzi scheme that doesn't care that funds aren't available to support the plan, we, on the other hand, are GOING TO HAVE FUNDS IN ADVANCE to cover any new membership that may join come November. If those funds aren't available or are not assigned as planned COME NOVEMBER, the plan will NOT OPEN!
Until funds are in The Believers Trust, we will NOT accept new members nor accept any Good Faith Deposits, GFD's.

I have no plans on using any of the GFD's that comes to my personal account to send back to members for any reason because by me using the GFD's in some way concerning the membership, there would be someone calling it a ponzi scheme, SO NO!!!:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: I WILL NOT use any GFD's to send to any member for any reason - all payments to the membership will be sent to the membership from The Believers Trust ONLY!!!! A 3rd entity, separate and distinct from the plan proposed.

The money that investors send you are these going to be given away to good causes and the needy as per the original plan and if so will you be able to provide proof of this or are we back to faith again.

My intent is to use those funds locally, and no there won't be any verification because dealing locally and separately in the hyip arena are two different areas that I want to keep separate. You keep mentioning "faith", no one has to join that doesn't have faith of at least $1.00. They can simply wait and see and be a FOLLOWER and not an adventurer after evaluating the concept and understanding the plan.

Regarding Investors as I call them and Gifters/Believers/Good Faith Depositors as you call them I don't think we'll ever agree on the terminology maybe others can help decide which description is best.

Maybe so, I don't see any thing wrong with the terminology, the only thing is, is it legal to do what is proposed? Will I be doing anything deceptive or underhanded, or illegal!

FOLLOW THE MONEY:

New Member wants to join, he decides to place $100.00 and send it to The SAM Group.

The SAM Group sees the deposit of $100 and informs me of the "Good Faith Deposit" or GFD, and it is in the MEMO SECTION of the members e-gold spend.

I, as the Signatory Authority, over The Believers Trust, have my office personnel make a file on the new member and call him/her to get to know the new member and answer any question that the member may have.

If for some reason the new member doesn't understand something to OUR SATISFACTION, the GFD is returned with a 10% profit and the file is closed. We aren't going to allow anyone to have any complaints at any time during the process of joining, or after he/she has become a member. It's not office procedure.

Now, presuming the new member understand that he/she is joining a group to help seek out other individuals with over $10K to be placed as a TSG Client, then we tell the member that we are going to send him/her, from The Believers Trust a pre-payment, which includes his GFD back at 100% and 50% as services rendered, for the next 60 days an amount equavilent to 50% of his GFD as an ADVANCED FEE/COMMISSION for just "looking for an investor", there is NO REQUIREMENT for him/her to surface an "investor", as the member has been pre-paid for ONLY the next 60 days.. PLUS Stated again: The Believers Trust is going to add to the ADVANCE COMMISSION of 50% of his GFD which is pre-paid to the member for the next 60 days the GFD that was received by TSG, and send it to him/her OUT OF THE BELIEVERS TRUST by check, cash or money or order or e-gold, and the member can hold his/her GFD until the 60 day term has ended, then the member can re-enter when the 60 days are over and our office personned will repeat the process all over again.

We have no intentions of taking longer than 10 days to process the new member on board and direct The Believers Trust to send the GFD back to the member along with a 50% reward for "future" services to be provided by the member. Even if the member does nothing, he/she is "rewarded" right along with those members that are diligently working to find real clients to be placed with real entities in a real trading environment.

If the trading entity did not exist, and TSG wasn't receiving REAL referral commissions, the program proposed will not work even with a $1.00 deposit, and everyone would know withing 10 days afterwards that it failed.

We are NOT going to open the plan UNTIL funds have been alloted to the project that will cover advanced commissions PLUS GFD's, and those funds are actually in The Believers Trust available for disbursement. That's the bottom line. Should the plan open, you can rest assured that anyone due any commissions to be paid in advance are on hand to be paid out. FACT!!!

PLEASE NOTE:

There is NO CONNECTION between me receiving the members deposits and me sending ANY MEMBER their 150% from the account that ALL members use to spend to the plan (a ponzi would do that) - in other words ... any deposits received will not have any connection nor any way of being looked at as being a ponzi scheme - simply because a 3rd entity (not associated with any deposit any member makes) is making the payments to the member well in advance, and by doing that, it can't be a ponzi because as we know, all ponzi schemes hold the members deposits indefinately, and pay a percentage over a certain time which usually never equals 100% of the original deposit. We do not do this, and have no intentions of doing it like a ponzi does.

In our plan, one entity accepts the deposit, works with the member and a 3rd entity pays the member 150% within 10 days after TSG receives and processes the original deposit - and that deposit is needed, and used ONLY as a measuring stick to determine that particular members "Believers level of standing".

Once the Believers standing level is computed, TBT is authorized to send the member 150% of the GFD. Our plan is this after the second term starts, to send the 50% without the member having to make another GFD, unless the 2nd GFD is more than the 1st GFD, or original depsoit. We will simply extend the 25% per month for 2 more months AFTER the first term of 60 days expires. This aspect was just recommended and approved.

What happens to the GFD received by TSG from the member?

It is used to pay the office personnel, lights, phone, lunch with the Mayor, Chief of Police, Sheriff and attorneys we deal with in our hometown for various reasons.

Yes, some of the funds will be used to give to those in need within our home town. It may only be $10, $20 or some amount to pay a specific bill that is late for someone we come in contact with in our daily activities on a local basis.

Now, what is your recommendation or concern?

Clayton

Webwatch

September 4th, 2006, 08:40 AM

Well Believer it seems we have reached a point now where you have explained your scheme so even I can understand it.

I also hope I have explained why I believe your scheme will fail and leave many out of pocket thats if anyone joins of course.

To save going back and forth on this now is a good point to let Time Judge which one of us is correct.
I hope to revisit this thread in late November early December to see how things have developed.

I have deleted your Spam thread discussing your Baccarat System as yet again the links used break Matrixwatch TOU.

If you post any more links you will be banned.
I hope this doesn't happen and you can join me in this thread later in the year and not take the easy way out even though earlier in this thread that seemed to be your objective.

Untill another Time.
WW
'The Non-Belivers Trust'

Believer

September 4th, 2006, 11:14 AM

WW, you said to start a thread about gambling which I did; now look at what I've done - by your request.

I can't find it right off, but you said gambling was very popular.

Pick a spot that I can do that! It was not meant as spam, I didn't even want to start the thread myself.

REGARDING TBT, you are right Judge Time will render the final decision.

P.S. I was notified this AM that we have reached the 100 mark of request to be members and we are now adding a PASSWORD to the site so those members can pass out the PASSWORD themselves and be credited with a referral credit. This is an added feature not previously revealed. Anyone requesting the PASSWORD will be assigned under one of the 100 that made a request, and can contact that person for the PASSWORD. We are going to make this profitable for the membership.

Webwatch

September 4th, 2006, 12:59 PM

Yes Believer, I did mention starting a thread to discuss Online Gambling.
I'm sure It's possible to dicuss a topic without advertising your own site or trying to sell a stratergy.

I'll look forward to November/December to see how your program is going.

Gringo

September 4th, 2006, 01:15 PM

In our plan, one entity accepts the deposit, works with the member and a 3rd entity pays the member 150% within 10 days after TSG receives and processes the original deposit - and that deposit is needed, and used ONLY as a measuring stick to determine that particular members "Believers level of standing".

Once the Believers standing level is computed, TBT is authorized to send the member 150% of the GFD. Our plan is this after the second term starts, to send the 50% without the member having to make another GFD, unless the 2nd GFD is more than the 1st GFD, or original depsoit. We will simply extend the 25% per month for 2 more months AFTER the first term of 60 days expires. This aspect was just recommended and approved.
You can have all the convoluted third party descriptions and explainations of how the system works that you want. The bottom line is that if people are sending you money, and getting 25% - 150% back in a matter of days, that return has to come from somewhere. The fact is those types of returns are impossible to obtain by any investment without risk long term. If they were, you wouldn't need to be asking people for money via postings on an anti scam site or other hyip forums. Therefore those returns must be coming from other new people joining and therefore it is by definition a ponzi and is just a mater of time before it crashes.

Believer

September 4th, 2006, 04:39 PM

concreteman

September 4th, 2006, 10:12 PM

WOW!!!!! hey beleiver you are my kind of guy, we are going to start a major race team in the next few months. Traveling hopefully to austraila and then the southern states late this winter, we could use a really good sponsor and you could come down, (they have a very nice camping facilities at eastbay raceway park) in your motor home and visit us and see your car, i have always looked for somebody that just wanted to give away money, and BAMMMM there you are, thank you in advance. "Concreteman":applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

ycchen

September 4th, 2006, 10:46 PM

WW, Judge Time will render the final decision, and time is closing in.

Grengo, I'm not asking people for money! That's a fact. People who send money are only proving their "Believers Status Level" so they can determine themselves what amount they want to receive 25% on ... plus the GFD they send is returned along with 2 months 25% within 10 days.

No, these returns aren't coming from "others people money" like a ponzi scheme would do.

Let's let Judge Time hear the case and render the final decision sometime shortly after November.

FINAL COMMENT:

Giving away money is rather hard when dealing with hyipers who inherently have a negative attitude.

Clayton I totally agree with you Believer when dealing with hyipers. Have you ever consider giving away money to the needy? The victims of the war? The poor communities two blocks from where you stay? The homeless? The inner city public school?

These needy people will be so thankful that you will smile in your sleep. Give it to the needy, not the hyipers, that's the way to go. ;)

Let me know if you need further advice on how to give. I am here to help. :)

Believer

September 5th, 2006, 12:22 AM

Giving money to the needy 2 blocks from town is our intent; we need investors to generate commissions for us to do that. The whole concept as you know is to use the hyipers to surface investors who have large funds to invest.

That's the concept and purpose of opening this to the hyipers. Some see the points made, some don't because they are blinded by negativity. You and WW are the exceptions.

I'm looking at a building to purchase right here in Philadelphia, MS. I'll set the office up, and definately will be giving funds away that are being earned from commissions earned for placing investors with our law firm.

Those in our hometown that have emergencies or funds for a dire situation can come to our office and receive funds that do not need to be repaid. Yes, we will in form them where the funds are derived from and ask them to refer those to us who wish to become an investor with our group.

The SAM Group is already registered at the court house as a business.

As far as hyipers are converned, my original intent (which is still in place) was to help them with something real that they could believe in again.

I've been told that 25% is unrealistic as far as returns are concerned; but, if they will just think for a second ... Have you ever seen a sale where the store marks down their products by 70%... Now, just think ... if the product was purchased for $1 and the mark down still makes a profit, how much would the product have to be marked up by to begin with.

If it was marked up 100% - $2 and marked down 70% = that would leave the $1 investment down to .60c ... not good.

If it was marked up 200% - $3 and marked down 70% = that would leave the $1 investment dow to .90c ... not good.

If it was marked up 300% - $1 puchase + $3 = $4 and marked down 70% = that would leave the $1 investment down to $1.20 still leaving a 20% profit.

So, why isn't 25% realistic? In retail businesses, it's not uncommon for a $1 cost of a product to be marked up 500% or more... It's simply not uncommon.

Being able to pay a 25% commission for the use of $1 isn't a very big deal in the business world, and those that say different simply aren't business minded.

So, do you see by borrowing from an business person $10K and paying him 25% for the use of that money for 1 month isn't unrealistic in the business world; and business people know this.

Ycchen, you are a kind individual for your concern. Thanks,

Clayton

surfer

September 5th, 2006, 08:05 AM

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: lol

In addition to the utter absurdity
of the comparison with real retail
products and their markup, you've
conveniently left out the other
expenses of doing business which
drastically lower profit margins, i.e.
rent, employees, insurance, taxes,
advertising, product development,
etc.

A certain amount of product has
to be moved each month just to hit
the break even point and then the
business can start generating profit
just like your ponzi will have to find
an ever increasing amount of new
suckers each month just for the
previous ones to get their money.

Putting that nonsense aside, you're
dealing with investments, not profit
margins on retail sales and there
is no guaranteed 25%/month
investment.

Believer

September 5th, 2006, 10:18 AM

In addition to the utter absurdity
of the comparison with real retail
products and their markup, you've
conveniently left out the other
expenses of doing business which
drastically lower profit margins, i.e.
rent, employees, insurance, taxes,
advertising, product development,
etc. It's all computed in, it wasn't
left out.
A certain amount of product has
to be moved each month just to hit
the break even point and then the
business can start generating profit - Correct
just like your ponzi will have to find - Not correct!
an ever increasing amount of new
suckers each month just for the - not correct
previous ones to get their money. - Not correct

Putting that nonsense aside, you're
dealing with investments, not profit
margins on retail sales and there
is no guaranteed 25%/month
investment. You're a customer not a business person.
You have no idea what it takes. So,
spend your weekly paycheck wisely.

People don't get rich by working for other people, they learn to get rich from people who have gotten rich. It's very obvious which you do.

Judge Time will tell when it comes time! In the mean time keep your day job, I'll continue doing what I do while dealing with the professionals that helped me arrive at my destination.

Those that wish to associate themselves with me and others in the field that made me wealthy will learn something. Those that don't, "already know it all" just like you.

We have 100 new members on line to join come November. That was our quota and at $50 per member equals $5,000 that will be sent to them before we reveal to them the web site. Then should anyone else join, they will have to come in BEHIND the "leaders" and will be considered followers.

25% is peanuts paid on $500 maximum in comparison to the returns coming in to TSG. We do not need anyone to send any funds to us for any reason, but we are NOT going to just hand it out to the hyipers in this arena - they are going to have to tell us with e-gold how much they want to be paid. The way (loosing players) in the hyip arena think, it may be an investment on their part, but actually isn't us for that. We just simply are not going to "hand it out" to hyipers like we do not and will come November in our home town.

We do not take suckers as clients, we help suckers (as you call them) get back on their feet by helping them to help themselves.

Even God says that he can't help anyone that won't help themself. It's their choice, we can do what we say! So, let time tell the tail!

I'm not going anywhere.

Clayton

Believer

September 5th, 2006, 10:25 AM

Arzel

September 5th, 2006, 10:45 AM

Believer/Clayton,

This has got to be the worst scam I have seen in a long time. Perhaps if you were a little more focused it would be more believable. Why not go waste some other peoples time with your SLS (stupid little scam).

Webwatch

September 5th, 2006, 11:00 AM

I know its not November/December yet but Just popping in for a second.
Even God says that he can't help anyone that won't help themself. It's their choice, we can do what we say! So, let time tell the tail!
I often hear this Believer but this is phantom religious quote from the book of Hezekiah 6:1.

The nearest biblical reference is:
"Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD."

But we are still asked to trust you in giving our money to your scheme.;)

Believer

September 5th, 2006, 11:06 AM

Judge time will tell! Don't you think? How can you call something a SLS before you have the proof? Are you the Judge and Jury with no evidence.

Where are the victims? Has anyone stepped forward? Can a SLS be such that "no one" wants to step forward?

The clock is still ticking, and by the 10th of November there will be post to say the 10 days has expired and no one was paid - should your prediction of SLS prove to be true.

How can such a long promotion of something opening NOT have either winners or loosers? SCAMS open with no pre-promotion so they can gain the advantage of scamming people.

Do you want to have egg on your face when it proves different.

You have seen too many scams and can't tell when one is real. You don't kow what a real one looks like - sounds like.

Join the "Non-Believers Trust", I think they need more members, we have 100 currently potential members. I've written them not to post at this URL because, I like the way it is going. Come November the 10th, they can then make post here if they so desire, but I'm not asking them to.

I love this, it's going to be funny when I come back here in December or January posting the amount taken in and the amount paid out. You can even visit me if you would like to see real proof first hand.

Please tell me how you would like for me to be more focused?

Be specific!

Thee is no scam opening here in our program!

mercinary

September 5th, 2006, 11:09 AM

Quick request:

Could someone (Believer most likely) post something very simple to follow that explains the flow of cash? An example would be something like the following (note that what follows is completely made up):

$100.00 - Initial trust value
$50 - Investor #1 GFD (Trust value = $150)
$75 - Investor #1 payout (Trust value = $75)

An example like this will make it very clear to all of us how the scheme works and how it can be sustained.

-Merc

Believer

September 5th, 2006, 11:21 AM

I know its not November/December yet but Just popping in for a second.

I often hear this Believer but this is phantom religious quote from the book of Hezekiah 6:1.

The nearest biblical reference is:

But we are still asked to trust you in giving our money to your scheme.;)

Well WW, don't trust me, trust the proof that can be provided come the 10th of November by those that went before.

If you send $1.00 that's not trust! That's pocket change. You could double that every 4 months and in a year or two, you could be at the maximum of $500 placement. Look in your couch or easy chair and find some change to try it.

Do you trust your Dentist when he says, "Open wide, this won't hurt a bit".

The benefits derived will feel much better than the "trust" you have in the beginning. "Better is the end of a thing than the beginning". Don't try to end what I'm doing just yet, it hasn't begun!

Let November 10th show up first. Then within 10 days AFTER each "last" member joins, it will be the "beginning of the end" should the last member not be paid. We are only 10 days away from each entry of knowing when the end has arrived. That's only 10 days of any month of any year of knowing?

DON'T FORGET, YOU CAN COME VISIT ME, OR I MAY VISIT YOU .... IF I CAN DRIVE THERE!

One other thing, should I not send the 100 individuals that made comments at any site they wished their $50 as promised, don't you think it would be posted as well?

Try it yourself, test it with no risk, request your $50, you made a comment and it qualifies. There is your test!

Comments without something to back it up isn't worth anything and certainly doesn't offer any proof, only opinions. And, opinions are like "belly buttons", everyone has one.

Start proving your point!

Beliver

Gringo

September 5th, 2006, 11:39 AM

People who send money are only proving their "Believers Status Level" so they can determine themselves what amount they want to receive 25% on ... plus the GFD they send is returned along with 2 months 25% within 10 days.
Call it a "deposit", "offering", or "can of corn". Call it whatever you want. The fact remains 25% ROI in 10 days or 2 months is not possible long term without significant risk. If it was, there would be no need to be promoting on the internet.

How can you call something a SLS before you have the proof? It's a matter of common sense if you have any investment background at all. Fund managers attract hundreds of millions of dollars in investment (without promotion on hyip forums) if they have a proven track record of beating the market by a few points with comparible risk.

Anyone that can produce an ROI of 25% every 60 days would very shortly be worth multimillions by just starting out with their own small stake or those of friends and family.

Common sense shows that promising a return of 25% or more in 60 days is a scam. Unfortunatly waiting for the proof that it is a scam is too late for the victims.

Where are the victims? Has anyone stepped forward? Can a SLS be such that "no one" wants to step forward?
Same thing that Kim Inman said before his ponzi collapsed--"all winners, no losers". He milked that for quite awhile while his scam held together and he collected millions. Just like you, he encourged people to start small, to "prove" that it was legit. People doubled their $25 bucks, then added more and more until their life savings were gone. Your approach is totally transparant--build up a little trust then sink the hook in and reel the vicitm in for the big kill.

What we do here ideally, is prevent people from falling for scams like yours. We also help pick up the pieces afterward, but then it's usually too late to recover their money.

ycchen

September 5th, 2006, 12:16 PM

....

DON'T FORGET, YOU CAN COME VISIT ME, OR I MAY VISIT YOU .... IF I CAN DRIVE THERE!
...
lol Believer, you should read more on this website than writing silly promise.

Many people have met Kim Inman and Bryan PIPS in their conferences and they still get scammed.

The more I see you promoting your SLS, the more I think you "might be" smarter than I thought.

Being sincere and keep repeating the same old promise "might" just get some people to try. Nothing to lose, right? lol

And, they "might" have a chance to get their "seed money" back (come on, use the HYIPS language), and this will encourage them to invest more or ask more people to join.

We have seen scam taking off in the beginning, big deal.

Try to sell your SLS to the MMG people. If they buy your SLS, then you "might" have a chance to scam a few bucks.

In the meantime, you need to catch-up with newer scam tactic. Yours are really outdated. :shake:

Webwatch

September 5th, 2006, 12:47 PM

Do you trust your Dentist when he says, "Open wide, this won't hurt a bit".Nope, It usually hurts-depends what he's doing of course. Next time I go I might ask him if he's ever thought of running a ponzi scheme because theres always people in his waiting room making return visits.

Comments without something to back it up isn't worth anything and certainly doesn't offer any proof, only opinions. And, opinions are like "belly buttons", everyone has one.

Start proving your point!
A bit of old school terminology, I like it (I think the original phrase Circa 1990 had another bodily region in it).
This annoying proof thingy works both ways so we will have to wait till November/December.

Believer

September 5th, 2006, 01:13 PM

yep! Novemer/December is the bottom line and will tell the tail!

That's it!

Believer

Arzel

September 5th, 2006, 01:39 PM

Comments without something to back it up isn't worth anything and certainly doesn't offer any proof, only opinions. And, opinions are like "belly buttons", everyone has one.

Start proving your point!

Beliver

You should follow your own words of wisdom here. You have made quite a few claims, yet have yet to provide any evidence..

What is the Lawyer firm you have retained? What kind of investment is feeding this phlantrophy? Thus far, everything you have said, and everything you have done on your website could be put together by a high school drop out. Yet you come to an anti-scam website and beg for trust?

The burden of proof is on you when you come here, and thus far you have proved nothing. Give us some proof, until then your scam is easily identified as such.

mercinary

September 5th, 2006, 01:50 PM

Believer:

Could you kindly respond to post 138 (my last post)? Thanks!

-Merc

Believer

September 5th, 2006, 02:18 PM

Call it a "deposit", "offering", or "can of corn". Call it whatever you want. The fact remains 25% ROI in 10 days or 2 months is not possible long term without significant risk. If it was, there would be no need to be promoting on the internet.

Not promoting a "can of corn", am only looking for a membership that would like to be a part of something real. We have 100 that have applied. They will be our base of membership from this arena. I'm sure that IF we fail to follow through now, it will be well know by everyone within the hyip arena.

25% is well within the realm of our venture, maybe not within any you or others have ever been involved in.

It's a matter of common sense if you have any investment background at all.

Many many years of success. That is what has gotten me to this point of wanting to help others.Fund managers attract hundreds of millions of dollars in investment (without promotion on hyip forums) if they have a proven track record of beating the market by a few points with comparible risk. What others do, or did, is their business, not mine.

Anyone that can produce an ROI of 25% every 60 days would very shortly be worth multimillions by just starting out with their own small stake or those of friends and family. Which is exactually what I did.

Common sense shows that promising a return of 25% or more in 60 days is a scam. You must be talking about a common sense that I don't know about.Unfortunatly waiting for the proof that it is a scam is too late for the victims. Where are the victims when I'm the one paying OUT FUNDS FIRST?

Same thing that Kim Inman said before his ponzi collapsed--"all winners, no losers". He milked that for quite awhile while his scam held together and he collected millions. That was his problem.

Just like you, he encourged people to start small, to "prove" that it was legit.What's wrong with that? People doubled their $25 bucks, then added more and more until their life savings were gone. Where is the common sense you were talking about earlier?Your approach is totally transparant--build up a little trust then sink the hook in and reel the vicitm in for the big kill.Well, if someone has been scammed before using this ploy, they will know better this tine - that is if it's a scam.

What we do here ideally, is prevent people from falling for scams like yours. Similar to the governing authorities, telling people how to think, or doing their thinking for them.We also help pick up the pieces afterward, but then it's usually too late to recover their money. How do you help people pick up the pieces? I, on the other hand, wish to really help them by offering something real.

Time will tell the tail. We have 100 potential members awaiting their first $50 which will be paid prior to November.

The can use the $50 and test the plan, and use the 25% that we will pay per month and double their funds over and over STARTING OUT WITH THE FIRST $50 THAT WE ARE GOING TO PASS OUT.

The scam (as you call it) is yet to be proven to be a scam. Speculation is gambling and you are speculating.

We are well on our way and now have our 100 potential members from the hyip arena. That' all we wanted. They do not have to add any funds to the plan whatsoever, they can do as they please and be compensated accordingly. Our present membership will surface other investors.

All potential members have access to this web page to read along with the other information at the information page. We have still gotten over 100 request thus far.

It looks to me like you need to tighten up a little and get a little harsher in your post to tell those that have joined to withdraw.

Well, get to it!

Arzel

September 5th, 2006, 02:48 PM

The scam (as you call it) is yet to be proven to be a scam. Speculation is gambling and you are speculating.

That quote alone, is enough to prove it is a scam. Your simple Fraudian slip is proof that you are setting up a scam, and you are certainly enjoying the fact that no one can prove outright that it is a scam. In your gloating, however, you exposed that you are indeed setting up a scam. Bravo! :applause:

Gringo

September 5th, 2006, 03:37 PM

Anyone that can produce an ROI of 25% every 60 days would very shortly be worth multimillions by just starting out with their own small stake or those of friends and family. Which is exactually what I did.

Common sense shows that promising a return of 25% or more in 60 days is a scam. You must be talking about a common sense that I don't know about.
The common sense part is that if you have a cash machine churning out 25% every 30 days there is no need to attract "clients". You and your friends/family would be worth billions in a short period of time. It's obvious that you need clients to scam their money from with the promise of 25% returns.
Unfortunatly waiting for the proof that it is a scam is too late for the victims. Where are the victims when I'm the one paying OUT FUNDS FIRST?As stated, the victims are left with nothing after the whole thing colapses. The early returns are bait to get people to put in more funds later, and to bring others in. Your strategy is painfully obvious.

Well, if someone has been scammed before using this ploy, they will know better this tine - that is if it's a scam.The problem isn't with past victims, most of them have learned their lesson the hard way. The problem is people who don't know better, who don't know the standard M.O. of your scam.
Time will tell the tail. We have 100 potential members awaiting their first $50 which will be paid prior to November.

The can use the $50 and test the plan, and use the 25% that we will pay per month and double their funds over and over STARTING OUT WITH THE FIRST $50 THAT WE ARE GOING TO PASS OUT.
All bait. You pass out $5000 to hook people in, to gain credibility. Then pass out a little more to gain momentum. People add more and more and bring their friends in. Once the pot gets big enough, the trap springs and the victims loose everything.

BTW where is the verified past returns for this amazing 25%/month investment? Who are the genius traders behind this? What investment vehicle are they using?

Believer

September 5th, 2006, 07:12 PM

Grengo asked: BTW where is the verified past returns for this amazing 25%/month investment? Who are the genius traders behind this? What investment vehicle are they using?

My answer: None of your business! Non-clients will NEVER know the answer to this question. And, IF a client can't prove capablity to participate, then he will not get past me to the trading entity. It's not our place to entice anyone to participate. We have found our membership base that will help surface those that wish to invest, and when they step forward AFTER November 2006, then they will have a protocol to follow. If they wish to enjoy being a part of a real entity that will introduce them to the real world of offshore opportunities RAN BY TRUE PROFESSIONALS IN THE HIGH YIELDING ARENA, they are welcome to apply, but we will not PROVE anything FIRST. We named the trust correctly when it was decided to be called The "Believers" Trust. Non-Believers need not apply. We will help you keep Non-Believers from applying ... I can assure you that. Only Believers are welcome to participate and meet face to face with me or someone esle that can give them direction. I will prove TBT's account balance and deposits being made to it on a monthly basis, but nothing else.

REGARDING THE BAIT (as you call it) OF $5k THAT IS GOING TO BE PASSED OUT.

You need to get the word out that that is FREE MONEY, and take it and hide it somewhere that TSG can't get to it. (I'm trying to help you in this aspect)

So, Get R Done! The clock is ticking - November is quickly approaching.

I'll give the password out to those that request it, but we have reached our goal of 100 new members derived from the hyip arena. That was a chore in itself.

Gringo

September 5th, 2006, 07:41 PM

My answer: None of your business! Non-clients will NEVER know the answer to this question. As, I thought, straight from Kim Inmans playbook!lol :applause: You won't disclose it because no such 25%/month investment exists.

Your position: Trust me, believe me first, then I'll prove it to you.
Real World: Prove it first, then I'll believe you.

Scammers love the blind faith people that fall for your position.

You're trolling for fish in the wrong waters here at an anti-scam site, nevertheless your scam has now been clearly documented and debunked so that when it colapses we will have yet another thread to add to our growing list.

Believer

September 5th, 2006, 08:07 PM

Grengo, you are CORRECT WHEN YOU SAY: You're trolling for fish in the wrong waters here at an anti-scam site, nevertheless your scam has now been clearly documented and debunked so that when it colapses we will have yet another thread to add to our growing list.

Grengo, the "when" is absolutely correct ... when and IF!

***************************

Someone else asked in an e-mail to me:

Give examples of the money flow and how the 25% can work out over 5 entries of 2 months per term. (I'm presuming you mean the membership and not investor cash flow ...

FIRST, let's set the stage with the cash flow of TBT. It has a 15K steady cash income per month alloted to this project. So, it will pass out $15K per month.

Second, let's presume that the (let's say 100 new members place their $50 that was given them, and they place it ALL come November 1st 2006).

Gross placement $5K sent to TSG.

TBT authorized to send out $7,500 as advance payment for the next 60 days.

On month two, TBT receives another $15K into the account plus the balance of $7,500 ='s $22,500 balance to support the base membership.

NOW NOTE: Should the membership raise their GFD to a point that TBT can not support the additional funds, then TBT will report it to the membership and return their additional GFD's that TBT can not support. The MAXIMUM per member is $500 or 500 points allowed that will generate to them 25% per month. It is limited, and it is not a get rich scheme, because each member can only receive $125 per month reward for being a member, and can not have more than 1 account.

Offshore entity sends TBT $15K per month every month for this project.

A member can only send TSG $500 every 2 months.

TBT sends out 150% of TSG's GFD every 2 months (Within a 10 day timeframe right after TSG receives the GFD).

TBT receives $15K every 30 days ... (will be proven to the "investor" ONLY that wishes to places over $10K)

***********
We have the base membership in place now from this arena, and do not need any more, however, we will not turn anyone away if they want the FREE $50 offered for comments at any web site they choose - either positive or negative.

We are NOT at this time looking for "investors", as that will be done come November. The first placement positions will become available in February 07' and not before for "investors".

The membership will start enjoying the rewards on their GFD starting in November and possibly have a raised REWARD come March 07'. This is only a projection right now.

We do know that come November 06' that $50K will be the minimum deposit in TBT assigned to this project, or the opening of the proposed plan will be delayed until the minimum of $50K is on deposit. I refuse to let this plan NOT have pre-earned commissions assigned to it and on hand sufficient to launch.

Any member on board come November 06' is advised that they should not make a deposit if they consider it to be an investment. Their GFD is ONLY accepted as a "Believer" status level, and is used to determine you faith in us. TBT will then return your GFD PLUS 50% of the GFD as a pre-payment to you for doing your membership duty as outlined elsewhere. If you do nothing except remain a member, you will enjoy the REWARDS derived from other members who take their membership duty serious.

A 10 month limit is imposed on members that do not find at least one new member that wants a $50 reward to make a comment, or one new investor that places over $500 as an investment. Amounts under $500 are considered ONLY deposits for a maximum of 10 days.

So, let's now let the posters at this thread tell you this is a scam in the making. As it will be my pleasure to prove them wrong sometime after November 2006. I wish to help the 102 or 103 new members acquire a few extra funds for any purpose they so desire, and use the $15K available on a montly basis anyway they so choose. Just do your duty within 10 months so your account won't be sanctioned or closed, and you can enjoy the funds for as long as you like. $125 per month will pay some bill you have, and it is yours as a REWARD from TBT.

No one is obligated to spend any funds to TSG that is over and above funds received from us FIRST. This is not a plan whereby the membership is supposed to invest, but rather, the membership surfaces investors for us. Anyone in this arena is NOT required, or requested to make an investment, only refer others outside the hyip arena that may wish to seek out further information and do their due diligence using a prominent law firm and true professionals outside the USA.

I, think that now I will close the thread and will see you folks in November, or ask some of the membership to visit this thread and make a short post as to what has transpired.

Best to All,

ycchen

September 5th, 2006, 09:37 PM

sure, see you in November. I am sure we will see your clients turn-into-victm after Chrismas. Tell them to come here so we can organize a victim movement against you.

By the way, PM me with your real name, address, contact number, so in case we need to report you, we don't have to look around on the internet. BTW, a recent picture will be greatly appreciated.

Good luck to your SLS. ;)

Believer

September 5th, 2006, 10:27 PM

By the way, PM me with your real name, address, contact number, so in case we need to report you, we don't have to look around on the internet. BTW, a recent picture will be greatly appreciated.

Good luck to your SLS. ;)

Just IN CASE, and I'm glad to see you leave yourself a way out, you will find all the information you request just below.

Go to the local Post Office, you will find all the information you request hanging on the wall SHORTLY AFTER your "just in case" time limit. That is as you say, "JUST IN CASE"!!

ycchen

September 6th, 2006, 12:49 AM

You are absolutely right. The possibility that we need to report you to any authorities is extremely low.

Reason: your SLS will not fly, so the amount of your scammed money will be so low that no authorieis is interested.

But, just remind you that victims might not be too easy to get rid off. They might haunt you down when you are trying to run. -- Just a kind reminder. ;)

Believer

September 6th, 2006, 10:54 AM

But, just remind you that victims might not be too easy to get rid off. They might haunt you down when you are trying to run. -- Just a kind reminder. ;)

I certainly hope they won't be easy to get rid of, because the "victims" will come from past scams they participated in and lost. No one will lose by dealing with me or any of the groups that surface.

I know what is backing this program, it is solid, and has sufficient capital to pay the membership; on top of that, it has top professionals in the background ready and able to handle any problems that may arise.

Let me ask you ... how long will this plan need to work and pay until you accept and acknowledge it as being backed by something previously unknown that can support a 25% per month payout PLUS return of the GFD within 10 days after it is received?

I work on goals, unlike most other individuals, because goals mark achievement levels. I have a goal as far as longivity is concerned, but I would like to know a time frame as far as your thinking is concerned.
Please give me that time frame for my information, it may give me another level to achieve.

The more levels of achievement that I achieve, the more visible I will be and will not have any reason to run and hide ... now will I?

So, set a goal for me as it relates to longivity, and I'll make it my "duty" to achieve it! OK?

Now, if you are going to cheer for the opposing team, cheer loud enough during that time frame to do some good. Each 'game' has it's limits, so tell me how long we have to play this game before one of us .... loses!

I'm up to it, and our TEAM members are professionals.

Is that a fair deal?

Tell me the time limits involved, and I'll start it November.

I'll even provide you with the dollar amount our team has on hand to run the program, the monthly funds that arrive to the trust, FULL DISCLOSURE and I'll even do this under the understanding that the ADMIN of this web site is an INVESTOR. I'll make a DEPOSIT on this site's behalf of the minimum investment amount of $501.00. I'll send the proceeds to the DONATION icon that I saw to the left of this page somewhere. It will run for 10 months .... unless you either refer one new member or generate an investor within that time frame.

With the above stipulations in place, please make your time limit more than 10months.

I've stated what I will do to help fund and run this web site against SCAMS, now tell me what benefit I will receive if I meet the above stipulations when our GAME is OVER. I'll give during the game, what will I get should I WIN?

So, (the GAME begins November)

Will you accept the challenge?

Who is the referee?
Who is the Coach of your team?
Who are the players?

How long is the game?

What will our program get from this site should it WIN?

What determines a WINNING GAME?

YOUR RULES?

(This will be FUN! :evil: )

Clayton

Arzel

September 6th, 2006, 11:40 AM

I don't see how we can play this game unless you reveal your form of investment. At this point it would appear to be an unregulated investment opportunity, thus illegal, and not something we can (or would) participate.

However, I would guess that your ponzi will collapse within 18-24 months. This largely depends on growth rate and actual investments. Actuall predictions are difficult until the scheme actually starts.

Webwatch

September 6th, 2006, 11:57 AM

Believer

September 6th, 2006, 12:00 PM

Well, since I am making the "investment" deposit for MW, and MW will be receiving the benefit, I will act as the "investor on their behalf" and I have already bee given FULL DISCLOSURE. I've accepted it and it will proceed.

Although you would not want to participate, you WILL however accept the 25% return on a monthly basis ... wouldn't you? Does that break your rules?

How do you want it .... in small unmarked bills? We pay in advance ... you know for 60 days in advance.

So, we agree, that 18 to 24 months is the game limit .... accepted!

Can we break that down into 4 quarters? Say, 6 months each?

The "scheme" will start in November.

AGREED! Now, tell me how the points will be given out.

Believer

September 6th, 2006, 12:03 PM

Challenges already.

While I consider yours could you consider mine.

Bring 3 of the 100 investors/gfdepositors you tell us you already have to explain why thay believe your scheme is a good use of their money.

Do I get any points for this during the 1st quarter?

The game hasn't started just yet?

How about you having "new members" make statements as to why they believe it will fail. This is a HOME game, so "visitors" go first!!

Clayton

Gringo

September 6th, 2006, 12:15 PM

Let me ask you ... how long will this plan need to work and pay until you accept and acknowledge it as being backed by something previously unknown that can support a 25% per month payout PLUS return of the GFD within 10 days after it is received?
As stated before, someone that can produce a 25%/mo. return without risk does not need clients/investors/participants. The fact that you are seeking such, is proof alone that this is a scam.

As far as setting a time frame, that would just be foolish for us to set one. You could easily hold things together by pumping in enough cash to hit the timeframe then proudly claim that you've proven to Matrix Watch that your scam is legitimate. You gain credibility, attract more victims, then disappear or start with the excuses ala Kim Inman.

If you want our blessing, you need to disclose all the facts as to:
1. What the investment is.
2. Who are the traders behind it.
3. What verification is there of their past perfomance.

The above information is basic information that any legitimate investment opportunity would provide. In your world of hyips, all the above is "secret", "propriatary", "confidental" and is never disclosed. Again, proof alone of an outright scam.

Webwatch

September 6th, 2006, 12:36 PM

Well, since I am making the "investment" deposit for MW, and MW will be receiving the benefit, I will act as the "investor on their behalf" and I have already bee given FULL DISCLOSURE. I've accepted it and it will proceed.

Unless you know another MW I don't think Matrixwatch will condone any 'Investment Deposit' certainley not one making any connection to a scheme such as yours.

At least you conceed that it is an Investment Deposit and not this 'Good Faith Deposit' Stuff.

How about you having "new members" make statements as to why they believe it will fail. This is a HOME game, so "visitors" go first!!
Thats what we have been doing, now its your turn.
I only asked you to consider it not come up with an excuse not to. :)

Believer

September 6th, 2006, 12:48 PM

If you want our blessing, you need to disclose all the facts as to:
1. What the investment is.
2. Who are the traders behind it.
3. What verification is there of their past perfomance.

The above information is basic information that any legitimate investment opportunity would provide. In your world of hyips, all the above is "secret", "propriatary", "confidental" and is never disclosed. Again, proof alone of an outright scam.

Again, ONLY "investors" will ge given FULL DISCLOSURE by the appropriate entities set up to give out that information. It is not anyone's business that is NOT considered an investor.

Besides, if the game goes on for 24 months, surely in that period of time "someone" would step forward that was not paid - wouldn't you agree to that point- if it is in fact a scam.

Note: at our information site, we show URL's that can be used to make post. Nothing is hidden from the membership or any "investor" that deals with the appropriate entities set up to give FULL DISCLOSURE and handles the legal matters concerned.

1. What the investment is. It is private and conducted outside the USA. Full disclosure is given to every "investor" therefore, you needn't worry since you will not be an "investor".

2. Who are the traders behind it. The client meets them face to face, and can ask their name at that time.

3. What verification is there of their past perfomance. Now, now, that would be enticement which is prohibited by those named in answers to Q#2 above.

Look at the benefit MW will receive ... don't deny that to MW, let's see ... 24 months at $125.25 per month ... that's a good deal for MatrixWatch and for your cause, and why would I help support a site that reveals scams if my program was one? Do other scams (which we are not) approach you before they open their program to be ridiculed and bashed?

ARE YOU CANCELLING THE CHALLENGE?

Besides, MW does not have to endorse our plan (either now or in the future), and I'll never gloat over it here as it will be self evident! Isn't it the TRUTH that you are seeking regarding programs in existence? Would it up set the intent of MW if one program turned out to be real? Would you be embarrassed?

Let me know!

mercinary

September 6th, 2006, 12:50 PM

Unless you know another MW I don't think Matrixwatch will condone any 'Investment Deposit' certainley not one making any connection to a scheme such as yours.

Webwatch is 100% correct here. We have never, and will never accept funds from a source known to run any get-rich-quick scheme....save your money Believer,as we don't need it, nor do we want it.

-Merc

Believer

September 6th, 2006, 12:58 PM

Webwatch is 100% correct here. We have never, and will never accept funds from a source known to run any get-rich-quick scheme....save your money Believer,as we don't need it, nor do we want it.

-Merc

How do you KNOW it is a get-rich-quick scheme?

What if it isn't?

At the first "real" sign of a scam developing, I'll leave this site and not return. So, at the first "non-payment" to a member ... it'll all be over, and you WIN!

P.S. An "investment Deposit" is over $500, and starts at $501.00 ... That is why I said, a return of $125.25 would be received and not a flat $125. You have to understand the difference between a GFD and "investment". I never adminted a GFD is an investment. You only misunderstood!
Clayton

Arzel

September 6th, 2006, 01:09 PM

Would it up set the intent of MW if one program turned out to be real? Would you be embarrassed?

Let me know!

For one, we know your program isn't real. There is no such thing as a no-risk investment which can offer continued returns of 25% per month. That is over 300% a year, and simply not feasible. As many have already said, if such an opportunity did exist there would be no need for outside investors.

Your challenge is meaningless since you will not disclose the nature or history of the underlying investment regarding the scheme, thus we have no way to ever know if what you say is actually verifiable.

As Merc has stated, we do not accept money from known or suspected scams, or even questionable businesses. It is this which has allowed us to remain a trusted source on the internet.

----

It appears that your only purpose here is to try and give previous victims a false hope of salvation, and I really hope that our YMMSS victims see through your scam and fight the urge to throw more money away.

I still personally think your Ponzi will collapse within 18-24 months, but it will have to actually start and be identified as having started to make any real prediction.

Arzel

September 6th, 2006, 01:11 PM

How do you KNOW it is a get-rich-quick scheme?

What if it isn't?

It doesn't matter at this point. We fully suspect it to be a get-rich quick scheme, therefore we would never accept any money from you or your scam. We are not so easily tempted.

mercinary

September 6th, 2006, 01:12 PM

The fact that we don't want your money isn't linked in any way to how we feel about your program.

Your program will fail, and we'll be here to call you on it. In the meantime, we want nothing to do with your scheme as far as collecting any payments from it. In fact...assuming we (MW) were an early investor, we probably WOULD get paid....that is how pyramid schemes work....early investors win, everyone else loses....we won't buy into that game!!!

-Merc

Webwatch

September 6th, 2006, 01:13 PM

ARE YOU CANCELLING THE CHALLENGE?
Cummon Believer your better than this.

The challenge as you call it is already in place as you started this thread to discuss your scheme and all the reasons it will fail have been laid down as have your reasons for why it will succeed, well theres only this anonymous benefactor and the alleged law firm that said it will.

What is missing is the time frame, well I said I'd keep following your scheme through November and December and I still intend to.
Chance will always play a part in how many invest, going by all your feedback from other forums I reckon possibly a couple if your lucky.

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that you could pretend your scheme is working just to indulge your own ego which is why I would like to see some of your early prospects come here to help you. Don't create imaginary shills like you've done on other forums-saying it was someone in your office may work on MMG but it wont wash here, in fact your MMG thread has stalled a bit so even they haven't fell for it.

So if you could consider accepting my challenge and getting some of your investors over to comment that would be great.

If you are going to invest in anyones name nominate a registered charity and tell them you are doing this and I will be more than happy to congratulate you when they receive their cheque, I don't think many charities take e-gold so a cheque maybe best. After all didn't this all start out as a scheme to help the needy.

I've tried to leave a few spaces between paragraphs for your colourfull comments.

mercinary

September 6th, 2006, 01:14 PM

Believer:

Maybe I'm missing something....for this entire discussion, haven't you been stating how people will be able to early 50% back on the investment? Isn't that just like free money? Doesn't that sound a little like free money, real quick....or in other words....get rich quick??????

-Merc

Gringo

September 6th, 2006, 01:40 PM

Again, ONLY "investors" will ge given FULL DISCLOSURE by the appropriate entities set up to give out that information. It is not anyone's business that is NOT considered an investor.Pure nonsense. A potential investor does his due dillegence BEFORE investing, not after. Every legitimate investment provides the details upfront, so that a potential investor can make a rational decision. This cloak of secrecy, believe first, then we will disclose the details, is clearly nothing more than a scam.
1. What the investment is. It is private and conducted outside the USA. Full disclosure is given to every "investor"You won't give it because you know research would prove it to be bogus.
2. Who are the traders behind it. The client meets them face to face, and can ask their name at that time.That's fine, but disclose who they are upfront so that a background check can be made. You won't do this because the traders are a fraud.
3. What verification is there of their past perfomance. Now, now, that would be enticement which is prohibited by those named in answers to Q#2 above.Why is prohibited? You are trying to attract participants. They can't make an invesment decision without knowing the past performance. You/they prohibit it because no such track record exisits.

At the first "real" sign of a scam developing, I'll leave this site and not return.I'm sure you will. Scammers usually disappear when the scam crashes.

Believer

September 6th, 2006, 01:49 PM

Merc,

Being paid in advance for services isn't a get-rich-scheme. Members have a duty to do something for which we are making a payment.

Don't you have to pay in advance for the services of a server to support your web site? Everyone wants to be paid quick ... is the server running a get-rich-scheme? In the way you explain it, they are!

And, Merc, 50% back isn't on their GFD, it is an advance 60 days commission for being a member ... you know fee to help surface a new member to receive $50 for making a comment ... or to surface someone willing to "invest" $501 or more. ONE OR THE OTHER is their duty and what we are paying them for the next 5 60 days or 10 months. That's $1,250.00 for doing NOTHING if they so wish.

COLORFUL COMMENTS: Thanks WW.

I've never asked anyone to become an investor or invest, I've only asked a potential member to post a comment and receive their $50. Still, as you can see, I'm looking to give away money ... I'm NOT out to acquire victims of other schemes to place funds into an "investment" against your advise.

The FACT remains that the proposed program to open come November has backing from previous placed "investors", and if that were not so, the proposed plan would not have any backing to support the new membership.

What you are implying is that I'm going to "pay out of my own pocket" funds so as to appear something is real which isn't". Is that correct? What a deal!

Let me ask you, do you have any real entities that offer returns in excess of 5% per month?

Also, what would be considered a reasonable monthly return that would be achievable month after month?

Anyway, "if at first you don't succeed, QUIT! There is no use in making a fool of yourself".
I would NOT advise any of those that lost funds in scams to follow that advise; especially when BP is about to be launched.

Arzel

September 6th, 2006, 02:19 PM

Also, what would be considered a reasonable monthly return that would be achievable month after month?

If you could consistantly generate 1%-3% a month (12%-36% a year) you would have a good real investment. Anything much more than that is on the risky side and exposed to higher risk. Anything much less, and you would be just as well to buy Bonds which have almost no risk.

Your returns and secrecy are what really reveal that you are advertising a scam. Of course, you won't get many internet investors unless you advertise obscene returns of 1% a day or more (which is what you are doing).

Believer

September 6th, 2006, 03:03 PM

If you could consistantly generate 1%-3% a month (12%-36% a year) you would have a good real investment.

OK then, consider I have 8 (eight) all rolled into one.

Anything much more than that is on the risky side and exposed to higher risk. As you say, but there are those "investors" that would disagree.Anything much less, and you would be just as well to buy Bonds which have almost no risk. What kind of "bonds" ... bail bonds?

Your returns and secrecy are what really reveal that you are advertising a scam. Not advertising a scam, only looking to give away money which isn't a scam. Of course, you won't get many internet investors unless you advertise obscene returns of 1% a day or more (which is what you are doing). Nope! I'm trying to give away money that EQUATES to that amount on a monthly basis, no investment on the memberhips part..

Let me ask you, have there even been any programs open that had real backing where the admin didn't get greedy and run off with the proceeds?

Ever at all?

And what sets them aside from the others, what characteristics do real investments possess?

Gringo

September 6th, 2006, 03:58 PM

And what sets them aside from the others, what characteristics do real investments possess?

3 characteristics have already been named, and your investment does not have them.

I'm trying to give away money that EQUATES to that amount on a monthly basis, no investment on the memberhips part..That's the first part, your "bait". The other part is the investment part which you refuse to disclose the details on, which any legitimate investment would in fact disclose.

Believer

September 6th, 2006, 06:06 PM

The "bait" ... is it like going fishing and let the fish get your bait? Only hungry fish even go for the bait. They don't have to eat any more after that if they are full.

$50 is not a lot of bait, but it can be used in a reverse scam against me. Figure out what a scammer could use the $50 in our program and make over 24 months or 12 entry terms.

The other part is the "investment disclosure part" which only those that wish to participate will be informed about BEFORE making an investment deposit.

Anyone NOT wishing to make an "investment" is NOT entitled to have FULL DISCLOSURE, and that is the part that upsets you. I can't help that, it's protocol - prove you can qualify as a client, then we will prove we can perform..

I'm not about to give away our contacts so deceitful people can by-pass our group and receive the referral commissions; it wouldn't be fair to our membership.

I'm still trying to give away "bait", I see people eating what I call "bait" at resturants, and I'd never eat any of it. But, I would accept "bait" in the form of money.

A penny found is a penny earned, and $50 "bait", is enough to take the spouse out for a good meal ... and they can order "bait" to eat.

And, I don't see where my "bait" OFFER would entice them to participate in this scheme as an investor.

Like I said, I'm still trying to give away FREE MONEY! And, we can pay 25% to any one member under $500 GFDeposit, and under 1500 members per month for a very very long time. At the point we can't, we will notify the membership and they can STOP making GFD's. It's that' simple.

SO YOU WON'T HAVE TO REPEAT IT AGAIN:

The other part is the investment part which you refuse to disclose the details on, which any legitimate investment would in fact disclose.

Any legitimate investment informs the "investor" the FULL DISCLOSURE before an investment is made ... we do that as well, but we qualify the "investor" and make sure he is a qualified investor BEFORE we disclose CONFIDENTIAL information that pertains to our protocol and to protect the clients privacy as well. We want to know what the Cleint's objective are so we can help him achieve it and for what purpose.

It's not the one that owns the GOLD that calls the shots where our investments are concerned. A client we choose to be allowed to participate does not dictate how the funds will be used. That is why we qualify a client before hand, and do not disclose information at sites like this that may be used out of context by you or some other person with a NEGATIVE attitude. He who owns the GOLD ... does not rule where our investments are concerned! That is the first thing we tell a potential client, and if that turns him off, we leave it at that and move on. He lost nothing and we have avoided a potential conflict at a later date.

So, you see, we start out with a "negative" thought right off the bat!

Opportunities that come along are like diamonds in Africa. A miner may stumble over one for days before recognizing it for what it is.

Now, what's wrong with that?

COMMENT:

We have on board upwards of 915 members since 1998, and can support a membership base of 1500 at $500 maximum @ 50% every 60 days for 6 years+. I'm projecting that come February 07', our profits will extend that time frame out beyond 6 years, or we will increase the 60 day advance payment from 50% to 70% which will hold the 6 years steady. If it every falls below 48 months, we will adjust the plan accordingly. We still have a very long way to reaching 1500 membership base. And, from our 48 month minimum to 60 month time frame which is actual as of now, and 50% now to 70% projected every 60 days, we have a great deal of leadway. That's where we stand. As things change, I'll disclose the FACTS for you evaluation and negative comments.

Can you show me a picture of the earth and prove it is ROUND? Not like a pizza, but like a basketball. That's how I feel here trying to show and prove something to a "flat earth society".

I'm still giving away FREE MONEY! That's a FACT!

Any "investor" that approaches us or is referred must QUALIFY as per projected dollar placement, attitude and goals BEFORE making his anticipated deposit, and it being accepted.

Over the years, over 7 out of 10 are rejected after receiving FULL DISCLOSURE. Receiving the parameters of our investments and the investor accepting them does not QUALIFY the client as an investor. The client's attitude and dollar placement play a major factor in our group accepting a client.

Making a GFdeposit is not an investment, and later placing over the maximum of $500 as an investment does not guarantee the member can become a client. Some people aren't qualified to be clients within our group, and they are weeded out as they step forward. Those people can remain members as long as they do their duty described elsewhere, and receive a MAXIMUM of 50% every 60 day on a MAXIMUM of $500 GFdeposit (not an investment, but advance payment for being a member).

No one that posted here except one person would be allowed to proceed further as a client. They can't understand the simpliest of comments and explanations given. We don't have a desire to go over and over a simple procedure with someone who will forget it the next day. Our present clients are doing quite well and work with the trading entity as they should.

Nothing is out of order.

Dreamer

September 6th, 2006, 07:16 PM

Arzel

September 6th, 2006, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Arzel
If you could consistantly generate 1%-3% a month (12%-36% a year) you would have a good real investment.

OK then, consider I have 8 (eight) all rolled into one.

That is the most illogical thing I have ever heard, I don't even know where to being to explain how illogical it sounds.

Anything much more than that is on the risky side and exposed to higher risk. As you say, but there are those "investors" that would disagree.Anything much less, and you would be just as well to buy Bonds which have almost no risk. What kind of "bonds" ... bail bonds?

Investors would dissagree with what? This is a simple economic fact. The greater the returns, the higher the risk. Econ 101 would teach you this. The bonds I am referring are U.S. Treasury Bonds. Probably the safest investment a person can make, if you don't know what "Bonds" are, then you are even more clueless then I thought. You obviously have no financial knowledge at all, and anyone thinking of investing in your scam should run away as far as possible.

Believer

September 6th, 2006, 07:25 PM

I havent read this last page yet, but I thought I would fire up excel to crunch some numbers.

Treasury bonds double ur money in like 20 years. Playing on the stock market, you can double ur money in 7 years. So, I chose 10 years just because.

A $100 investment today, letting all monies cycle for 120 months, or 10 years, will make the person $34,063,678,720,065.20. Thats alot of trillions of dollars for waiting for 10 years.

Dreamer, it certainly gets to the point of "how much is enough" doesn't it? That is why we limit a GFdeposit to a maximum of $500 per member.

One can't "crunch" out those kind of numbers you are referring to in our plan. Only $125 per month is our limit and goal for all the membership, it's reasonable, and let's others that invest in the stock market and such make the Trillions. We only wish to pay a bill or two for our membership.

Do you think we are unreasonable?

Gringo

September 6th, 2006, 08:38 PM

And, I don't see where my "bait" OFFER would entice them to participate in this scheme as an investor.Already been explained, and you know exactly how the enticement works. Exactly the same way all scams work, start out with a small investment or even a gift to win their confidence. They think it's legit and put in more and more and bring friends and family in. When the scammer thinks the maximum size has been attained, the trap springs and the scammer disappears or starts with the excuses.

A client we choose to be allowed to participate does not dictate how the funds will be used. That is why we qualify a client before hand, and do not disclose information at sites like this that may be used out of context by you or some other person with a NEGATIVE attitude. Totally lame excuse for keeping everything a secret. An investor knows, for example, when they choose to invest in a mutual fund that they can't dictate how the fund manager buys and sells stocks. Yet the prospectus fully discloses the fund past performance, the fund manager and the stocks held in the fund. That is how a legitimate investment works.

A scam cloaks everything in secrecy, exactly like you do. Qualifing a client is B.S. Fully disclose what you are doing and the client will qualify themselves. Making a GFdeposit is not an investment We are back to the beginning. Calling it whatever you want doesn't change what it is. If you are accepting money with the promise of returning a larger amount later, it is an investment.Can you show me a picture of the earth and prove it is ROUND? Not like a pizza, but like a basketball. That's how I feel here trying to show and prove something to a "flat earth society".That's because your "proof" consists of B.S., illogical, vague descriptions. Provide the information that any other legitimate investment would offer without the lame excuse of "confidentiality" or "qualifing the client" and the facts will speak for themselves..Nothing is out of order.Everything is out of order compared to a legitimate investment:
1. Unrealistic promise of returns with no risk.
2. Complete secrecy with regards to past performance, trading vehicle, and traders.
3. Silly money giveaway for posting comments to bait the victim.
4. Illogical pursuit of clients if a 25%/month is being produced.

Believer

September 6th, 2006, 08:49 PM

Well, the fact remains, we can pay a membership base of 1500 (now 915 or so) $125 per month for over 6 years. Come February 07' we can up that to $175 per month for a minimum of 48 months.

Investors are welcome to run as far away as possible.

Bail Bonds aren't something you want to promote here neither are U.S. TBills.

You see, I don't have to know anything about investments, all I need to know is a professional who knows. That is my stance, and being illogical is my trademark, rich people think different that pofolks! Ask a rich person. Ask him/her if they think differently than a pore person with no money, and no way of getting back on their feet.

I'm clueless on alot of things, but I surround myself with professionals who work for me because I'm rich, not because I'm clueless. If I weren't clueless, then I wouldn't need them, or you to tell me I'm clueless which makes me appreciate them more.

I have no knowledge of financial matters, and don't need to know because I have you to tell me I don't, and I have the professionals who do. The difference between you and me is, you have finanacial knowledge and know it, and think you don't need professional contacts that I have and can introduce you to because you think you are going to have to depend on me.

The SLS (as it's called here) is very solid, not because of me, but because of the professionals behind the scenes that work with our clients - which I am one.

I still want to give money away. Does that make me clueless about handling money, do I need someone to tell me not to give it away and to whom to give it to? I'll give it to whom I wish, when I wish, and how I wish; and, I'll have fun doing it.

Most people are too busy working for their money and don't have time to to think about "un-clueless" ways of acquiring it - using small funds.

Actually, I don't care to know certain things; all I want is for the professionals to do their jobs well. So, I can remain clueless and get richer.

I surround myself with professional people from my barber to Presidents and diplomats of foreign countries. I travel extensively ... not around the world, but over 5K miles one way and then back. I don't need to be anything except "clueless" because most that meet me like to talk, and I'm a good listener - after the conversation, I know what I know and know what they know and they don't know what I know!

I have NO FINANCIAL KNOWLEDGE taught in schools that is set up to keep the rich people rich, and the poor people poor. Do what is taught in school and you will remain poor for life.

Surround yourself with rich people and you will get rich. I do just that!

Some will start here, and some won't. I'm not hid behind an e-mail address or unknown web site. I'm offering FREE MONEY, and those smart enough to take it have taken their first step to SCAMMING me if they so desire.

Yes, I'm clueless to the point of being and staying poor because I can see an opportunity when one is presented. So, I'm not clueless when it comes to making money because I know where to turn, and I'll never be poor again.

That's a fact!

You choose your paths in life, based upon decisions that you make. I chose my path and am willing to help others see a path that is "no risk" to start.

I'm still giving away FREE MONEY! I will give it away til the day I die. My Grandchildren can't spend the money willed to them during their lifetime by the time I give it to them.

Yes, again I am clueless to a lot of things; but, I surround myself with professionals in every aspect of my life that I am clueless in. That keeps me rich enough not to care if anyone knows I'm clueless.

Where can I purchase some Bail Bonds since they might be worthy of owning in my scheme of things?

88888888888888888
Grengo,

Everything is out of order compared to a legitimate investment:
1. Unrealistic promise of returns with no risk.
2. Complete secrecy with regards to past performance, trading vehicle, and traders.
3. Silly money giveaway for posting comments to bait the victim.
4. Illogical pursuit of clients if a 25%/month is being produced.

Absolutely, EVERYTHING is out of order compared to the way legitimate investments are presnted to the American People.

1. Correct
2. Correct
3. Correct
4. Correct

As long as it fits the govern authorities intent of keeping the poor - poor, it will appear that way.

Let me give you something to think about:

Sam Walton - You know him, he did what I'm doing. He didn't borrow the money to build the Wal-Mart Stores.

The CEO of Chrysler back in late 80 and early 90's brought Chrysler from bankruptcy to a profit over $1B within 1 year. Did you ever notice that?

GM was losing money a year or two ago; have you heard any more about them being close to going under?

I know of others that the names you would not recognize.

THINK, with the cost of fuel, how can large companies stay in business without something behind the scenes going on? It's there, people like those that visit these boards don't know about it.

I'm now "illogical and clue-less" and don't forget ... got rich because of it by surrounding myself with professionals.

I'm still going to make the offer to membership and others come November.

I'll have an office set up in my hometown where anyone can walk in and get help.

Anyone that wants to SCAM me can start out with FREE MONEY.

Dreamer

September 6th, 2006, 09:17 PM

One can't "crunch" out those kind of numbers you are referring to in our plan. Only $125 per month is our limit and goal for all the membership, it's reasonable, and let's others that invest in the stock market and such make the Trillions. We only wish to pay a bill or two for our membership.

This doesnt work. If you only let me invest $125 a month, then after the first month, i'll recruit my brother. Then my sister. Then my mother. My father. My brothers wife. I'll find any family member that I know and ask them to invest $125 a month, or whatever. And, they wont have to invest their own money, I will give them the money to invest for me. And, we can split the profit in half.

After 2 years of letting all the money cycle over, that $100 turns into $16,000. By then, I will blanket all college campuses with "Make $10. No risk. No money required. Register at this site, and I'll pay you $10 on the spot". One more year, that $16,000 turns into $308,000. I will definately figure out a way to put that money in the system.

But, the falacy of ur "logic" is this. If u have a fool proof system to make 25% a month, it shouldnt matter how much somebody wants to invest. In fact, with higher risk investments, more money invested usually has a bigger return. If I have a hundred bucks, I might be able to lend it to a friend and get $105 back in a month. No problem. If I have 100million, though, I can lend it to large corporations that need that kind of money and make 19% off that.

If I invest in a treasury bond, it doesnt matter if I invest $50 (or whatever the minimum is) or 100 million dollars. The return is guaranteed.

Believer

September 6th, 2006, 09:27 PM

This doesnt work. If you only let me invest $125 a month, then after the first month, i'll recruit my brother. Then my sister. Then my mother. My father. My brothers wife. I'll find any family member that I know and ask them to invest $125 a month, or whatever. And, they wont have to invest their own money, I will give them the money to invest for me. And, we can split the profit in half.

Dreamer, You can make a GFdeposit of a maximum of $500 and receive back in 10 days $750. YES, you can scam me by making other deposits within other accounts. But, I know you wouldn't.

W have a limit of $500 per account for 2 months and $500 is the maximum we allow each member to place as a GFdeposit.

After 2 years of letting all the money cycle over, that $100 turns into $16,000. By then, I will blanket all college campuses with "Make $10. No risk. No money required. Register at this site, and I'll pay you $10 on the spot". One more year, that $16,000 turns into $308,000. I will definately figure out a way to put that money in the system.

Yes, you could do that, but we would prefer you become an "investor" and do your own thing with the investment funds that you place, it would be much simplier to become a client than keep up with bogus accounts. That is how Baby Pips members got started. Some of the members broke away from TSG, and started their own thing, then referred a large client to us back in February which was placed. That client is allowing $500K to generate profits for this project. You can do the samething without trying to cheat the membership.

But, the falacy of ur "logic" is this. If u have a fool proof system to make 25% a month, it shouldnt matter how much somebody wants to invest.

You are correct, but we do not allow the membership base to make a GFdeposit over $500. An "investor" can place any amount they wish following the protocol that is set up through our law firm. It starts at $501.00 up to any amount they wish to place. You can break away at some point and set your own plan up and pay what you wish to pay, and will have real backing. It all starts with becoming a member, proving it is real, you'll know within 10 days by becoming a member and making a GFDeposit. Within 10 days, TBT will pay you 150% ... your GFD PLUS 50% for the next 60 days in advance. Use it as you see fit.

In fact, with higher risk investments, more money invested usually has a bigger return. If I have a hundred bucks, I might be able to lend it to a friend and get $105 back in a month. No problem. If I have 100million, though, I can lend it to large corporations that need that kind of money and make 19% off that. You certainly can, but we use as small as $10K to generate over 25% per month using the professionals that are in our grasp of utilizing.

If I invest in a treasury bond, it doesnt matter if I invest $50 (or whatever the minimum is) or 100 million dollars. The return is guaranteed.

That is good!

Dreamer, you have a little more imagination than others that post here. I can see you doing just fine.

Keep in touch,

Dreamer

September 6th, 2006, 09:46 PM

Dreamer, you have a little more imagination than others that post here. I can see you doing just fine.

Is anything that I said not true? If you can turn $100 into $300,000 in 3 years, wouldnt you do whatever u can to do that? The mathametics dont work. Limiting the amount somebody can "invest" doesnt work. In fact, if there was a guarantee 25% return, any business would want to get in as much money as possible to be able to get all that inteterest back.

But, lets go back one step here.

I invest $100 with you. In 2 months u give me back $150. you have a way to guarantee a 25%/month return without risk. But, the reason you are setting up this business to help needy people? I didnt lose money in some Hype or whatever they are called. I lost something more dear to me. My real life job. So, I dont ahve $100 to invest. If I did I would pay the minimum of a credit card. I would get better food then cup o noodles. I might even buy some nice pants and get a hair cut so i can look presentable in future job searches.

But, lets say I somehow have $100 to give you, and u can make 25% a month and after 2 months u give me back $150. If your giving me back the total amount of interest u r making, then how are you able to help out needy people if all the interest is already accounted for?

Believer

September 6th, 2006, 10:22 PM

Is anything that I said not true?

No, just the way it was said as it pertains to the stipulations in our plan. I only corrected you as it pertains to our proposed plan.

If you can turn $100 into $300,000 in 3 years, wouldnt you do whatever u can to do that? Yes, but there are stipulations to get it done. Don't just try to beat the system, join the "investor" side of the program.

The mathametics dont work. Limiting the amount somebody can "invest" doesnt work. Yes, it does as it pertains to the membership base whose sole purpose is to surface other members or investors.

In fact, if there was a guarantee 25% return, (this is only in the fact that a GFD is returned within 10 days PLUS 50% as a pre-payment to you for the next 60 days) any business would want to get in as much money as possible to be able to get all that inteterest back. Yes, but will have to meet face to face with our attorney and then be introduced to the offshore entity.

But, lets go back one step here.

I invest $100 with you. NO, the investment is a minimum of $501.00 The $100 you are calling an investment is a Good Faith Deposit.In 2 months u give me back $150. NO, no, you get back the $100 PLUS $50 FOR A TOTAL OF $150 within 10 days after "I" receive your $100 deposit (GFD). You can NOT re-enter for another 60 days. You have been paid in advance of the 60 days term expiring.

you have a way to guarantee a 25%/month return without risk. Absolutely, as a member, within 10 days, you get back the GFD PLUS THE NEXT 60 DAYS ADVANCE FEE FOR SERVICES from TBT's advance earnings received as commission to be paid out to the membership - It is guaranteed to be there BEFORE we will accept your $100. It isn't an investment on your part, it's a fee for you to surface an investor or intorduce anothe member.

But, the reason you are setting up this business to help needy people? (Aren't you needy? Most members are needy, and the more "investors" we can surface generates funds to give to the needy. The membership is the one's we consider needy, although we intend to help them as well.)

I didnt lose money in some Hype or whatever they are called. I lost something more dear to me. My real life job. So, I dont have $100 to invest. Well, your post here will get you $50, just request it at our mailing address.

If I did I would pay the minimum of a credit card. I would get better food then cup o noodles. I might even buy some nice pants and get a hair cut so i can look presentable in future job searches.

Write me with your phone number, I want to talk to you.

But, lets say I somehow have $100 to give you, Not "give me", but make a GFDepositand u can make 25% a month and after 2 months u give me back $150. :nono: :nono: :nono: You get back within 10 days $150.00 and can not re-send the $100 again until the 60 days is over. We will simply send your $100 back from The Believers Trust along with your next 60 days fee for being a member of 50% of your GFDeposit.

If you giving me back the total amount of interest u r making, then how are you able to help out needy people if all the interest is already accounted for?

OK, the $100 you give comes to me, and OUT OF ANOTHER ACCOUNT (The Believers Trust), you are sent $150 within 10 days of me receiving your $100. I can only keep what you send to me, I can not get into The Believers Trust account and take funds out for anything other thanthis project of which a member is a part of. I CAN keep your $100 that you send me, but TBT sends you $150 within 10 days of you sending me the GFD.

The Believers Trust is consistantly receiving funds in to BE GIVEN AWAY, and at a rate of 150% of what I receive on behalf of TSG. The two entities are separate. TBT stipulations state that ALL funds MUST be given away. By me letting you send me 2/3rds of what is available to be given away, I at least have funds derived from TBT to pass out in our hometown.

Do you see, TBT has $15K per month to give away, I get $10K sent to me, and TBT sends out $15K. I can not go directly to TBT and say - GIVE ME $10K. I have to have someone else give me the MONEY and then I can authorize TBT to give that money back along with a 50% fee for doing something on behalf of TSG.

I've explained this in other post above, seems no one can grasp the concept that TBT was set up to GIVE FUNDS AWAY, at 50% more than you send to TSG. TSG can not go to the trust and take funds out to give to other people. It MUST be alloted by me for a service of someone doing something on behalf of TSG. So, as a member, you are helping introduce other members and other investors, therefore can be sent funds by TBT.

Does this help explain it better?

Write me with your phone number!

I don't know how else to say it, I'm here to give money away, the more I receive from GFD's, the more TBT send out to you. I get to use the GFD to pay salaries, expenses and give funds away in our hometown.

Can you grasp the way I explained it above?

Dreamer

September 6th, 2006, 11:36 PM

No phone. Certain luxeries i had to give up. Internet is not quite one of them yet.

I might be a little slow, but I really dont understand what u want to do. I understand u want to give away money. Thats a worthy cause. I understand you want to somehow align people up who want to help those versus those who need the help. Thats admirable. I'm sure this has been mentioned before.

I give (for lack of the proper term. I dont feel like scrolling up to find it) to you $100 so you can give that money away to a needy person. That money is going to be invested in some no risk investment (which, BTW, does not exist). That money will somehow make 25% per month (solely based on a ponzi I'm guessing) and after 2 months that $150 will be returned to me. So, who exactly did I help out with that $100?

Now, you say you have stipulations on ur system about the amount of money that is invested, or whatever term u want to use. You also state there will e full disclosure to all investors. So, whats to stop me from asking the main investors who are able to produce the 25% return to tell me how they do it so I can put my $100 there and in 10 years become a multi-trillionaire?

And, this is all for a worthy cause, so whats to stop the people that have this knowledge of no risk 25% return a month to not put their own $100 in there, and after 10 years be able to solve world hunger?

In a previous post you mentioned there is $50,000 in this account already (or something). If you wait 1 year, get your business office up and running, get all the kinks out and everything, that $50,000 will turn into $727,500.

If you dont want to wait that long, instead of taking out the interest every month, do it once a quarter. So, instead of starting in November with $50,000, Start January 1st. Let the interest roll over.

Jan 1st - $78,125 (assuming Nov 1st started with $50,000)
Payout - $19,531 (25%)
Leaving- $58,594

Apr 1st - $114,441
Payout - $28,610
Leaving - $85,831

Jul 1st - $167,638
Payout - $41,909
Leaving - $125,729

Oct 1st - $245,564
Payout - $61,391
Leaving - $184,173

Jan 1st - $359,712
Payout - $89,928
Leaving - $269,783

So, instead of being able to give away $10k/month withdrawing once a month, if you withdraw once a quarter, after a year you can give away $30k/month. After 2 years $90k/month. 3 years $270k/month. 4 years $810k/month, and after 5 years you can give away 2.4million/month.

There is no scamming the system here, or anything unethetical. If you can guarantee a return of 25% a month, instead of taking the interest out once a month, take it out once every 3 months. Or, even better once every 6 months. And, if you can wait a year thats even better!

Dreamer

September 6th, 2006, 11:51 PM

You should just consider telling people how to make 25% guaranteed a month.

I'm 30 years old. If I put in $1 today (i'm sure i can borrow a dollar off of somebody) and use that as my retirement account, i can make alot of money. Wallstreet should give me about $16. Treasury bonds about $3. My 403b gave me about 20% for the year last year (this year was just ****ty) So, if it can perform at 20% a year for 30 years, that $1 would get me about $237!

With your system, that $1, forgotten for 30 years, building interest every month will get me $61,758,205,730,155,800,000,000,000,000,000,000.00

For anybody thats interested, that would be:
61 decillion
758 nonillion
205 octillion
730 septillion
115 sextillion
800 quintillion dollars and zero cents.

Not bad for a $1 investment.

To put this in perspective, gold has an approximate value of $630/troy ounce. That would be 98,028,897,984,374,300,000,000,000,000,000 troy ounces of gold after 30 years. That is 3,049,039,554,186,560,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms of gold.

In comparision to the planet earth (Trying to put this into perspective) the earth weighs
6,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (6E+24) kilograms. Thats 508,173 times the weight of the planet earth. In comparisson, the sun is only about 333,000 times the weight of earth, so even the sun wont be able to hold all that gold. Pistol Star was once about 200 times the size of our sun. However, that star is about halfway thru its life cycle of about 6 million years, so it probably only weighs 100x the size of our sun. But, luckily that should still be large enough put store all that gold, although it will melt pretty quickly and its only 25,000 light years away. Beam me up scotty!

Dreamer

September 7th, 2006, 12:29 AM

There is no such thing as a no-risk investment which can offer continued returns of 25% per month. That is over 300% a year, and simply not feasible.

Arzel, while ur right it is over 300%, the truer figure is closer to 1100%

Gringo

September 7th, 2006, 01:28 AM

THINK, with the cost of fuel, how can large companies stay in business without something behind the scenes going on? It's there, people like those that visit these boards don't know about it.You mean they're using some secret squirrel investment strategy to keep their business afloat? That same secret squirrel technique that your traders are using?lol If a business could earn 25%/mo from some outside investment, they would immediately close up shop and just trade.:yes:

ycchen

September 7th, 2006, 05:35 AM

...
With your system, that $1, forgotten for 30 years, building interest every month will get me $61,758,205,730,155,800,000,000,000,000,000,000.00
..... lol lol good one, Dreamer ...:D

See, you are a non-believer. You have to believe that everything is possible. Miracle is possible.

Give me your paypal account, I will beam $1 to you right away, so you can retire at 60. (30 years from now).

Believer

September 7th, 2006, 11:21 AM

No phone. Certain luxeries i had to give up. Internet is not quite one of them yet. OK, then write me!

I might be a little slow, but I really dont understand what u want to do. I want to open up what we have had since 1998, which involves ordinary people, into the hyip arena. That's my intent.

I understand u want to give away money. Actually, I don't care to give the money away, The Believers Trust was set up to give the money away, I'm only looking for people who want it!

Thats a worthy cause. I understand you want to somehow align people up who want to help those versus those who need the help. Thats admirable. I'm sure this has been mentioned before. Yes, but not quite that way.

I give (for lack of the proper term. I dont feel like scrolling up to find it) to you $100 so you can give that money away to a needy person. Yes, in our hometown.

That money is going to be invested in some no risk investment (which, BTW, does not exist) No, the GFDeposit isn't going to be invested, The Believers Trust sends to you based upon your GFD 150% (remember, I kept your GFD and as Signatory Authority over TBT authorize it to send to you from their account 150% of your GFD within 10 days.).

That money will somehow make 25% per month (solely based on a ponzi I'm guessing) Wrong guess!and after 2 months that $150 will be returned to me. No, you get 150% within 10 days after I received and KEEP IT, and it will be sent to you by The Believers Trust. The money you sent me is to be given away in our hometown,So, who exactly did I help out with that $100? ME! And, anyone that walks into our office needing help in a dire situation - You included!

Now, you say you have stipulations on ur system about the amount of money that is invested, or whatever term u want to use. You also state there will be full disclosure to all investors. Any investor that says they want to place over $501 and visits our office will be introduced to the law firm that will give FULL DISCLOSURE - We have had over half to back down, and over 75% to be rejected by the law firm, so the investor situation isn't very good. That is why we need new members to help surface QUALIFIED "investors". Anyone else using under $500 can walk into our office, hand us $500 and I'll immediately hand them a check from TBT for $750 that they can cash a few blocks away. But, NOT INVESTORS. They must follow a different protocol.

So, whats to stop me from asking the main investors who are able to produce the 25% return to tell me how they do it so I can put my $100 there and in 10 years become a multi-trillionaire? Well, first of all, they will only accept $1.5M. Second, you can tack-on to a client with a minimum of $501.00, but can't enter direct. This is handled through our law firm, and we try to talk you into placing $10K or more and not $501.00

And, this is all for a worthy cause, so whats to stop the people that have this knowledge of no risk 25% return a month to not put their own $100 in there, and after 10 years be able to solve world hunger? You and others keep using "no risk" as far as the investment is concerned; I want you to know that at the level I'm working, your GFDeposit is NO RISK; the investment is and has a different protocol. You will have to ask the traders about the risk factors involved when you start your investment. All I do is authorize TBT to cut you a check for 150% of your GFDeposit, and it is NO RISK - trust me! The TSG, and TBT are two separate entities as well as the offshore trading entity.

In a previous post you mentioned there is $50,000 in this account already (or something). If you wait 1 year, get your business office up and running, get all the kinks out and everything, that $50,000 will turn into $727,500. :nono: :nono: :nono: No, No, That $50K is proceeds from an investment in place. It is the returns of an investment that is to be given away, NOT THE INVESTMENT ITSELF!!!!!

If you dont want to wait that long, instead of taking out the interest every month, do it once a quarter. So, instead of starting in November with $50,000, Start January 1st. Let the interest roll over. Again, those are the returns on the investment, not the investment. This is the funds that will pay all membership their 150% based upon what they send me - GFdeposit.

Jan 1st - $78,125 (assuming Nov 1st started with $50,000)
Payout - $19,531 (25%)
Leaving- $58,594

Apr 1st - $114,441
Payout - $28,610
Leaving - $85,831

Jul 1st - $167,638
Payout - $41,909
Leaving - $125,729

Oct 1st - $245,564 Again, The $50K is the returns from the investment.
Payout - $61,391 This is the money held in TBT to be given away to
Leaving - $184,173 The membership for making a deposit of good faith -
GFDeposit. TBT will send the new member 150%
Jan 1st - $359,712 within 10 days. These funds are similar to an
Payout - $89,928 investment, but generated IMMEDIATELY at
Leaving - $269,783 "no risk" to the new member.

So, instead of being able to give away $10k/month withdrawing once a month, if you withdraw once a quarter, after a year you can give away $30k/month. After 2 years $90k/month. 3 years $270k/month. 4 years $810k/month, and after 5 years you can give away 2.4million/month. Yes, it stil may be that way, we expect to raise the GFDepsot REWARD (not investment return) to 70% or 35% per month over a 60 day term come February 07' Please understand that the funds in TBT are already earned returns from an investment - Your GFDeposit isn't an investment, it is only a measuring stick to let me know what part to pay you 150% on IMMEDIATELY.

There is no scamming the system here, or anything unethetical. If you can guarantee a return of 25% a month, instead of taking the interest out once a month, take it out once every 3 months. Or, even better once every 6 months. And, if you can wait a year thats even better! Dreamer, Maybe you have caught on by now that TBT funds are to be given away to MEMBERS ONLY! To be paid within 10 days once "I" receive your GFDeposit - which I keep and give away as well. TBT will cut you a check good for 60 days, and you can not make another GFD until 60 days are up, a check for 150% of the funds you sent to me. That is the ONLY way I can get TBT to release FUNDS. I have to have someone to send them to. A "Believer", non-believers need not apply, it wastes our time and benefits NO ONE!

Dreamer, write me, I have to give the funds I receive as GFD's to someone, you seem to be a person that has struck my heart sting. I'll get you $1K with no strings attached. You do not have to become a member, nor do you have to make a GFD, nor do you have to EVER do anything except accept the $1K so I can get the trust to release 150% or $1,500 to "me" for other purposes. The ONLY thing you will have to do is SIGN THE POSTAL RECEIPT that you received the package. That's all I need.

Now write me!

Believer

September 7th, 2006, 11:29 AM

lol lol good one, Dreamer ...:D

See, you are a non-believer. You have to believe that everything is possible. Miracle is possible.

Give me your paypal account, I will beam $1 to you right away, so you can retire at 60. (30 years from now).

Ycchen, you are beginning to make a fool out of yourself.

Believer

September 7th, 2006, 11:37 AM

You mean they're using some secret squirrel investment strategy to keep their business afloat? That same secret squirrel technique that your traders are using?lol If a business could earn 25%/mo from some outside investment, they would immediately close up shop and just trade.:yes:

OK Grengo,

THIS ISN'T A SQUIRREL INVESTMENT, but rather a cat investment.

I'll give you a "No Risk" investment. It is in effect NOW, and we are looking for Partners, NOT investors.

I've opened a cat skinning farm. We skin cats and sell the pelts for 10 cents per pelt. Our over head is only 7.5 cents. That leaves us a GUARANTEED 25% profit.

Now, here is where I need partners:

If we have a rat farm across the street, we can cut our feed cost. You see, we can feed each cat 4 rats, and cut the carcuses of the cats into 4 quarters and feed the rats. That will in effect cut the cost of feed down to nothing saving us another 2 cents raising our profit.

Now, an idea that I have is to offer someone a true opportunity to join us with no investmentment what-so-ever.

We will open a rattlesnake farm on the other side of the farm, breed the cats with the rattlesnakes and the cats will skin themselves twice per year raising our profit up to over 80% per month.

Will you like to join in this venture?

I'm sure you will find some fault in this, so, go ahead and let us know why such a good idea won't work!!

Webwatch

September 7th, 2006, 12:04 PM

Hi Beliver,
One question:
Could we have the address of your registered office.

If the answer is going to be "only qualified investors will be privy to this information" theres no need to reply.

Gringo

September 7th, 2006, 02:07 PM

You and others keep using "no risk" as far as the investment is concerned; I want you to know that at the level I'm working, your GFDeposit is NO RISK; the investment is and has a different protocol. You will have to ask the traders about the risk factors involved when you start your investment. All I do is authorize TBT to cut you a check for 150% of your GFDeposit, and it is NO RISK - trust me!
First of all, if someone has to send you money and wait 10 days for you to send them back 150% there is plenty of risk. The risk is that you'll disappear with the money. Indeed, they have to trust you, and it is certainly not "no risk".

Your commodities trading or whatever investment that produces 25% returns monthly must have risk, so why not be upfront and tell us about it? There are plenty of hedge funds, commodity trading funds, and other high yield/high risk investments of these types both onshore and offshore. Their past performance, drawdown, and full details are fully disclosed to anyone interested, so unless they are falsifying the records, they are not scams, simply high yield, high risk investments.

The problem I have had with our discussion so far is your talk about return with no discussion of risk. Now at least you've mentioned that the risk element needs to be discussed with the traders. What makes the HYIP scams is their insistance that they have a secret "letters of credit", "Bank Debentures", etc. that involve zero risk. If such a thing existed, they certainly wouldn't be trolling the internet for investors.

All this could have been avoided if you would have simply stated, "We are looking for qualified investors that might be interested in investing in a commodities trading fund that has a high return with a high risk.", if in fact that is an accurate description. On the other hand if you are representing that there is minimal risk for a high return, then the scam flags go up...

Webwatch

September 7th, 2006, 02:39 PM

We will open a rattlesnake farm on the other side of the farm, breed the cats with the rattlesnakes and the cats will skin themselves twice per year raising our profit up to over 80% per month.

Will you like to join in this venture?

I'm sure you will find some fault in this, so, go ahead and let us know why such a good idea won't work!!

I'm not going to say that this idea won't work but I can see a few problems which should be taken into account.

1. The cost of Biologists/Lab Technicians/Gene Splicers may prove prohibitive.

2. There maybe some Animal rights protestors who cause you some problems if they get wind of this scheme.

3. Reptilian and mamal DNA may not synchonise correctly to cause the correct Hybrid to be produced. i.e you could end up with a cat with no legs that rattles its tail but doesn't shed its skin or a snake with fur that just molts making the skin unusable I'm sure thers more I haven't thought of.

4. You may need a control gene in place i.e bird DNA to allow for the genes to splice without rejection, which will cause more mutation problems.

Or are you just going to get a snake and cat drunk and put them together in a pheromone scented room dim the lights and play some Barry White and hope for the best.
-----------------------------------------

All problems aside the cat/rattlesnake plan is still more believable than your BabyPips venture.

Believer

September 7th, 2006, 04:45 PM

Trust ME!

Those words worked on my first date!!! I had the best time of my life right after she spoke those words to me! (I won't go into detail.)

Yes, you will have to TRUST ME, just like others have done since 1998.

It's not a scam, ask Dreamer around the end of the month. When he replies with an address shortly, he'll know if my WORD is my bond. All a person has in this arena is his "word", and I can assure you, you'll have to take other people's word for that - that my word is good.

Later,

Dreamer

September 7th, 2006, 05:17 PM

Believer,

I dont know if you're trying to scam everybody, or if you are honestly trying to make a good effort in helping people.

There is nothing wrong with trying to bring people together that want to help others, and being able to help those who really need it. Some intelligent members here suggested giving to the Salvation Army, or companies that do that for a living. I have helped many people when they needed help, even when I couldnt afford to do it. I ran up so much in credit card debt helping out a friend in pain who needed pain killers but didnt have insurance (no shes not a druggy. She actually got hit by a car 2 or 3 times while walking). My philosphy is deeply inrooted in my religious belief, that when i was down on my luck, someone out there always took care of me. I've always felt that whatever happens happens for a reason.

While I struggle trying to get back on my feet, I may not know why all this happened, but, i still hold fast that when all is said and done, I'm sure I'll be more then happy that I got fired.

But, I have a few thoughts for you.

1. You came to an anti-scam site. How many people who are regulars here got scammed online? I dont know if there has ever been a statistic. But, I'm guessing it has to be over 90%. This site was created by someone who was scammed by EzExpo (I think that was the matrix site). And the original admin here were probably also scammed by that matrix site. This was long before me, so my facts might be wrong. We have regulars who were part of GotMatrix, who, during the time when it was successful, thought we were scumbags, etc. I'm sure some of them still think I am, and they are probably right. We have STA people here, who probably felt the same way until they came here for whatever reason. Again, maye they think we are just a bunch of crybabies, but at least they have a forum to voice their disappointments with without threads getting deleted.

2. You are using language that ALL scam sites use. Guaranteed return. You have lawyers. Not a scam. Super secret investments. Off Shore Investments. Scams specifically like off shore investments because they know most people dont know about that so it sounds really good. Charles originally was going to trade stamps from depressed economies to US. So, his investment was also offshore based. In fact, what you say sounds too much like it4us. That scam is being investigated, and they changed their name to SS something or other. Its all offshore. And, all the investors will be given all the information in due time. I think they were even going to offer classes to train people how to make the money they are making. That never happened.

3. You may be getting scammed yourself. Maybe you believe all of this. My dad, maybe a year ago, thought of 2 great ideas. one person wanted to go into driveway washing business, but needed $2500 to get started. My dad was going to supply the investment, and they would be business partners. The guy got his $2500 and never talked to my dad again. I tried telling him be careful, get everything in writting. Talk to a lawyer. Oh no, hes a friend. That wouldnt happen. Another person, at the same time, wanted to go into business with my dad selling coupon books to local churches. They would go to businesses, get them to give money for these coupons and give them away to the church members. There was more to this, and it sounds like it could work, and I read that other people already do that. So, my dad gave them $2000 to get started. My dad doesnt fall for anything anymore. If I called him up to ask to borrow $100 to buy new clothes so I can go out job hunting, he wont talk to me for 6 months. How do I know? I asked last year when I really needed money and he refused to talk to me.

Believer

September 7th, 2006, 05:41 PM

Dreamer,

I have just talked to the (individual) and he says to look for some funds to arrive into The Believers Trust next week. Now, that is somewhere around the 15th or so.

The offer still holds: Write me, and I'll get you $1K

WHY?

Anyone wanting to help themselves ... can be helped in a positive way, and I'll get the funds to you.

WHAT I EXPECT IN RETURN:

nothing, notHING, NOthing, NOTHING!!!!!

You can post here if you find a job. Maybe, just maybe, I can play a part in that in a positive way.

OK! So, I sound like all the people that came before, and am unbelievable. But, you will never know if you don't take a "risk" and let me know your address.

This is NO RISK TO YOU.

I guess, I simply can't explain something that is ALWAYS being taken out of context and bashed. "It always sounds like something they have heard before" and had a B A D experience from.

Do you quit driving because you had an accident at one time or another?

Do you not date again because your first was a real bummer?

I could go on, but you get my drift.

Give me a chance! I'll either prove my intent is good, or everyone will know my true colors.

I'm really trying to "Give MONEY away! Really ... Trust ME!

You know, I can see something good coming from this as far as your Dad is concerned ... You won't ever have to ask him for money again.

Now, I expect someone to make a post and talk you out of accepting the FREE FUNDS. You are trying to better your self and I appreciate that, so I'm willing to help you.

I require a (application - if you want to call it that) when someone comes to me and asks for help in some way. I then read over it and try to find by reading between the lines what their underlying reason is for wanting the funds. Some are for personal reasons, such as health, or food. Others are for a means of helping someone else that they are responsible for and can't.

Your post here show that you are TRYING to help yourself and imporve from where you were before. That is what I like to see. You get $1K - No other questions asked.

NOW CLAIM IT!

Webwatch

September 7th, 2006, 06:20 PM

Now, I expect someone to make a post and talk you out of accepting the FREE FUNDS. You are trying to better your self and I appreciate that, so I'm willing to help you.

Not Me. I wouldn't even try to talk Dreamer out of accepting free funds.
Anyway he's been here longer than me and is more experienced in these matters, and I'm still working on how to get a cat to mate with a rattlesnake.

Believer

September 8th, 2006, 10:36 AM

WW,

De-claw the cat, de-fang the rattlesnake, and make sure the cat is a male, and the rattlesnake is the oposite sex (or whatever), I never could tell one from the other!

Wait until the rattlesnakes lays his eggs.

That's all there is to it!

There should be about 8 to 15 little kittens with rattlers on their tail, and they will skin themselves twice per year.

That's the secret of making extra profit.

We could also write an e-book to sell. This could be the biggest HYIP ever dreamed up, and the profit would be phonominal.

When do you want to start?

Dreamer

September 8th, 2006, 09:23 PM

Anyway he's been here longer than me and is more experienced in these matters,

Even if I was here longer then you doesnt mean that I'm more experienced or anything. The truth is, I have always looked at myself, and continue to do so, as an outsider looking in, throwing in my own version of logic into topics, and my own personal sence of humor. I ask lots of questions from other people, because I am still learning about everything.

Out of everybody on this forum, i'm probably the least experienced. I didnt come here after a scam or anything. I found this site once I finally figured out what the whole ebay matrix thing was.

And while MW is still an active forum, and I'm still an active member, I will still ask questions to try to come to what reality is.

Believer

September 9th, 2006, 03:14 AM

ycchen

September 9th, 2006, 03:43 AM

WW .... REQUEST

Can you change the title of this thread to: The Believers Trust - Come November.

That is the exact name, not Baby Pips. We do not want to be associated with FOREX trading as it is HIGH RISK. Our plan and the entities associated with us DO NOT work in the FOREX arena.

It would help eliminate some confusion.

Thanks, Believer, I think your ID must have been hijacked. You started this thread by associating your SLS (Stupid Little Scam -- term invented by Arzel, not me ;) ) with PIPS & forex business, and now you are saying you have nothing to do with all that? :head: :shake:

Go back and refine your SLS and make up your mind which version of lies you want to stick to, and come back again.

With all our advices, you still can't get your SLS to sound a little bit more convincing. :shake:

Believer

September 9th, 2006, 04:09 AM

Well, I made a simple request to the ADMIN of this site.

There are people that are relying on us to help them and we will very shortly, and by us doing so may shortly prove our SLS, as you call it, their reprieve. Then you and others that "think negative" constantly can continue as you did in the past and continue to participate in REAL SLS's.

There are no lies; only misconception and misunderstanding on your part. Keep doing what you are doing and the path you are on will take you to a destination you may not want to end up at.

People like you make me sick, you think negative ALL the time; and, I don't want anything to do with "negative thinkers", and people who "know it all". You are a prime example.

I made a request to WW, not you.

I admit I started the thread incorrectly, and have asked for it to be changed. We DO NOT work in the FOREX arena. ALL hyip programs that use such backing eventually fail. It takes professionals to do that type trading.

Our trading entity has been in their arena and registered for over 30 years. And, NO, I will not reveal to anyone at a SLS site any information. NEVER!

Anyone with $1.5M can step forward if they like; otherwise, they can join our program and participate. If not, then continue on the path you are on.

Dreamer, chose to take me up on my offer, as well as others unknown to you. Some can see past their NOSE and know that if they don't change their path, they will only find themselves in a much worse position. Then people like you ... "chant" like a heathen hoping to make themselves look good at some point in time!

Judge Time will tell the tail, and the time is getting shorter ... what are you going to say when individuals like Dreamer are helped by our program and choose to let those here know that I'm true to my word?

We have the trades in progress, and have funds arriving per scheduled terms. I know that people like you don't want to see such things arise as it will make you look like a fool at some point in time - Decided by Judge Time.

Here, read this: Matthew 6:7 (Your chant is "silly little scam")

Now, allow me to help the needy, and quit chanting! The people that wish to change their direction in life don't want to hear your "chant".

Maybe if you dressed like a freak and danced around while you are chanting, people might take notice that think like you - NEGATIVE!

Webwatch

September 9th, 2006, 04:57 AM

Believer,
I have added believers trust to the title of the thread as it improves the relevance.
Babypips is still mentioned in your home page and this thread so I will leave it for the moment.

If you get your scheme of the ground and manage to finalise the name of it, I see no problem in changing the thread name to suit.

People like you make me sick, you think negative ALL the time; and, I don't want anything to do with "negative thinkers", and people who "know it all". You are a prime example. I would like to see an apology for this statement as just because we don't agree with you, doesn't make us negative maybe realistic is a better description.

Gringo

September 9th, 2006, 11:38 AM

That is the exact name, not Baby Pips. We do not want to be associated with FOREX trading as it is HIGH RISK. If you are claiming that your traders produce 25%/mo. with low risk, then you are clearly a scammer. Our trading entity has been in their arena and registered for over 30 years.So what. That doesn't prove they are profitable traders.

Believer

September 9th, 2006, 04:13 PM

I apologize!

See, if I'm wrong, ... I'm wrong!

But, WW ... when people don't know (and I ain't telling) the details about what has been working for years, and try to prevent others such as Dreamer from acquiring the FREE HELP that we are about to offer isn't fair to them. Negative thinking and comments may have prevented someone in REAL NEED from contacting me.

I know that most of you have been scammed in the past and don't recognize something real.

Our plan is the mold that SCAMS used to promote their plans, and when I come along and present the FIRST MOLD, they claim the ORIGINAL is a copycat of the scams.

These type trading programs are over 30 years old, and possibly older with some revisions.

As you said WW, "Judge Time will make the final decision". When it does, I wonder how some will "backpeddle" to save face.

UPDATE: I was informed by the Judge (Federal Judge to be exact) that some funds will be in The Believers Trust around the middle of the month.

At that time, I will finalize the payment to the new members that made comments, and will see that others (about 3) including Dreamer an amount equal to or in excess of $1K. I will NOT ask any of them to post comments here unless they want to of their own free will and see I have to GIVE AWAY the funds out of the trust. I can not utilize them any other way. Yes, certainly I get their GFD (if they make one) but, TBT sends out 150% of any GFD I receive. I need members in order to unlock the trust funds. That just happes to be one of the stipulations of TBT.

What do I do with the GFD's? I pay overhead and give some to the needy within my hometown. (I have my own income from my business, and it gets to the point - How much is enough?)

As time goes by, and I project February 2007, we will have 10% of over $1M to give away in this hyip arena alone. It will make an impact, and most likely to "positive thinkers". Sorry if I offend "negative thinkers", and you have to admit ... most people think negative.

There is only one type person that I will not have any dealings with whatsoever under any circumstances, and those are "incompent" individuals. If they can and don't, then STAY AWAY FROM ME!

I can and do!

I would presume that before the end of the year that you and I will meet face to face. I travel extensively and just maybe I may be traveling close to where you live or work. I meet many many people, and simply refuse to allow anyone to be associated with me that "knows it all" and consistently thinks negative where our program is concerned.

I will prove through those I help that we are successful and will make a positive impact in the hyip arena ... overseen by a law firm and others that will NEVER be revealed to "negative thinkers".

We are all in a boat, mine floats, if someone wants in, I'll throw them a rope.

Some folks like Dreamer is up a creek without a paddle, all he needs is a boost and he will be OK! I hate for people to try and put negative presumptions in peoples mind that FINALLY believe they will be helped and can sleep at night, then read something that puts that negative thought in his mind to stay awake again at night when there is not need.

YOU SEE WW, I know what I have, and just because I'm not going to reveal it on the web draws negative comments, not disagreement comments, and may prevent someone without a solution to their problem as far as money is concerned, from seeking that help from me.

That upsets me and makes me sick!

Believer

September 9th, 2006, 05:08 PM

WW,

You will love this .... I was teaching one of my students/clients the Baccarat Strategy that I developed over the past 12 years today at the casino, and within 30 hands dealt, he won over $300. The shoe just went our way (as my strategy predicted), and the management asked me to leave for the day.

The reason given to me by the casino was because I showed him how to lower the table limit from $10 down to $5 which gives the player the advantage based upon the "table limits of the casino". You might say that that was the best "endorsement" that I could ever receive. The client was tickled pink.

You know, WW, I think different than the average working person, and surround myself with what I call important people (at least in their minds, even the Governor of Mississippi), and help those "small wage earners" that find themselves in a situation that may have been something that happened to them that "blindsided" them, and all that is needed is MONEY to solve the immediate problem. That is what I specialize in ... helping people with "money" problems.

Doctors help people with health problems, psycharistrist help people with mental problems, me, I help people with money problems. And, having a solution to 'FIX' money problems at hand, is everyone's dream.

Yes, baccarat is a hobby of mine, I've been playing it for over 12 years ... that was back when the Choctaws opened the casino on the Indian Reservation in our home town some 12 years ago. I wanted to find a pattern that comes up the least ... and I did by studying over 3,000 shoes from this casino and others around that others have collected and passed along to me.

I simply found a pattern that did not come up (very often) within 15 hands with NO TIES, and play that pattern. If the patter does come up, the amount made BEFORE the pattern shows up would amount to multiple thousands in profit. The loss would be minimal ... stop loss!

I have perfected the strategy. I'm proud of it, and my client/students are extremely happy.

Now, regarding The Believers Trust, the same thing as Baccarat, I put together a group of individuals, some bank professionals, lawyers, financial experts and others that I have gotten aquainted with over the years .... each of them have their "circle of friends", although I don't know those in each individuals circle, by being a part of that "circle", I can be associated with them by ASSOCIATION. Similar to a CONSPIRACY!

And, Yes! I have acquired a position with many that is "clickish", I don't like to be that way, but there are some people I simply refuse to associate with for one reason or another. And, some that I associate with because they have "clickish" secrets and expect each individual to be evasive with outsiders in some aspects of the word.

Just this past week, a house burned down, (I keep up with the fire department and police department on my NOSEY BOX ... SCANNER!) I have taken it upon myself to give that family $5k. And, where do those funds come from ... my personal trading profits. And, let me tell you, IF my trading profits were losses, the $5K would not be available as excess funds for me to simply give away.

Risk doesn't play a part with me where my funds are concerned; I've got the contacts that worry about "risk factors" and such, I simply take the rewards of being associated with such a group of PROFESSIONALS that keeps risk at a minimum. I don't have to know how they do it, I only have to know they know how to do it. It's not what you know, but WHO you know, and I know professionals in all walks of life and all over the world.

Anyway, I thought the Baccarat incident was note worthy. You seemed to be interested in Baccarat .. .. I think I picked that up!!!

OH! ... Please take the "baby pips" off the thread, I know I started it wrong in the beginning ... Baby Pips was the "NAME" of the group that I mentioned, I did not mean for people to associate it with FOREX or PIPS. I just started it under the thread that had "PIPS" in it, not knowing it would lead to misunderstandings and we that we did FOREX trading, which we don't.

I'll await the next "negative comment", and try to stay positive and find someone to help somewhere within the "spider web" of communicatinons called the WWW.

Banned for the day at the casino made my day! What an endorsement for my strategy! It only makes me look forward to helping the new members from the hyip arena ... what an endorsement that will be! Especially, if I get banned here for helping people! We can discuss that later!!!!

P.S. Keep working on the cat and rattelsnake project, you'll see, the e-book that can be written and sold will be the REAL "secret" money maker. Not the profits from selling the cat pelts!

Think Positive!

ycchen

September 9th, 2006, 08:06 PM

I think everyone agree with Gringo. Without disclosing any information about the nature of how your traders could make 25%/per month, you are running a scam.

May I ask you a simple question. Could you kindly tell us your past business experiences? Which company did you work for? Tell us a few internet business that you are responsible for setting up ...etc.

Let me guess your answer: none of your business ... lol

Believer, I am sure a few people will donate to you and get their 150%, and become your SLS promoter. You and I know how this ponzi scam works. To make your scam as big as PIPS and YMMSS, you need to learn more.

Have you heard of It4us.net? Your secretive trader buddies sounds identical to them. lol

Believer

September 9th, 2006, 10:21 PM

If you are claiming that your traders produce 25%/mo. with low risk, then you are clearly a scammer. So what. That doesn't prove they are profitable traders.

Gringo, what I claim and what the trading entity does is quoted because I know what I'm receiving and I know what other clients are receiving. The "risk" is not my concern. The trading entity handles that. My principal is protected and my returns are guaranteed. How they do that is NOT my concern, it's theirs.... Got that?

If you or others do not believe what I say, the so be it. There's a big world out there and there are professionals that know about such things. I just happened to know someone that knew someone that knew someone at one time and worked myself into the position I'm in now.

Believe it or NOT! The truth will unfold shortly one way or another. And, I suspect those that have been helped as I promise will raise their head sooner or later - not by my request, but by their own exuribent excitement that they have truly been paid by what you and others call a "silly little scam".

It's OK if you want to believe what you believe, I don't care.

Others that need help can request it, and I'll do the best I can based upon your situation and the funds we have available to work with.

Believe it or NOT!

Only "Believers" need apply!

Someone make a plea for help, and see what happens.

Do you really think I'm making these post to prove I'm scamming people? Do you think either I or anyone else is that stupid? Do you really think so?

Why would I do such a thing? Why lie? I'm not requesting any funds from anyone ... I'm simply asking someone to "test" the plan with a simple plea.

Dreamer is in line right now. I have some other funds to pass out (or will next week or so) and then everyone will know should Dreamer or someone else decide to tell you - I'm not going to ask them to post here - your negative comments are words you'll eat later!

I'm looking forward to making the payments to several that have requested help. It thrills me to no end! And, I'm sure it will thrill them as well. Can you imagine receiving $1K from someone that you NEVER thought would do as he said?

I can not reveal how, or who generates the returns as protocol does not allow it - I'm a client just like others, and I'm under an NCND that I'm going to honor to the fullest extent.

Again, it won't be too much longer either I will tuck my tail and run, or I'll proudly display a different flag. As of now, enjoy the site of the "red" flag.

I thank God everyday for the position I've been placed, and I'm going to seek out others that are where I once was since I can't pay God back, I'll pay them.

So, someone answer or comment on WHY anyone would come to this site promoting a scam, simply to tuck his tail and run in very short order?

I'm in hopes that one or two that I'm about to honor my promise to them will show up here by their own choice and make a comment.

I'll be around, and available by phone.

206-339-6220 - message center voice mail. It will page me by computer.

Also, if you wish to talk to me, let me know when you will be on line, and I'll open the chat room shown at my URL.

I don't know about you, but I'll be glad when the first funds arrive next week, and what the attorney has to say come Monday after talking to the trading entity as far as the larger funds arriving in October and how much.

Anyone needing help, make a plea, I'll get it processed - Do it just to prove me a scammer - Get R Done!

Best to All,

Think Positive

EXAMPLE: My mother-in-law is a very large woman.

My positive thoughts: Her measurements are 38" 24" 36" and her other leg is about the same! See, that was positive!

Believer

September 9th, 2006, 11:06 PM

- First, I apologize to you personally. You know how it is: Some people work their way to your heart; others just get under your skin.

I think everyone agree with Gringo. Without disclosing any information about the nature of how your traders could make 25%/per month, you are running a scam.

Not disclosing how the trader make 25% per month doesn't prove anything! Just like the negative thoughts and comments you make doesn't change anything; the tale will be told shortly - time is running out for me!

May I ask you a simple question. Could you kindly tell us your past business experiences? Absolutely NONE! So, what does that have to do with anything - except I haven't ever ran a scam before! Which company did you work for? I've always been self-employed and owned my own business.Tell us a few internet business that you are responsible for setting up ...etc. Again, absolutely NONE! I'm new to the scamming world of hyips, and wish to offer the ADMINS something real to back their ponzies.

Let me guess your answer: none of your business ... lol No, sorry to disappoint you. I'm trying to introduce the real world of trading to a few; they just haven't stepped forward just yet.

Believer, I am sure a few people will donate to you and get their 150%, and become your SLS promoter. You and I know how this ponzi scam works. To make your scam as big as PIPS and YMMSS, you need to learn more. I have not intent of doing what either of the above did, I have my own protocol and way it will work ... with the exception it is not a scam. I know you don't believe that for one reason or another, but please let Judge TIME prove it one way or another.

And, as of this point, NO ONE is asked to send a Good Faith Deposit to receive 150% of that amount. I'm opening a pre-launch program that will GIVE FUNDS AWAY to a few where NO UP-FRONT "Believer" Status Level is required. When TBT receives it's first large funds, the ONLY WAY I can get the funds released is by the GFD. As of now and pre-launch, NO GFD is required.

Have you heard of It4us.net? NO, I don't participate in any web hyip venture. I have something that works, so why go elsewhere?

Your secretive trader buddies sounds identical to them. lolI simply wouldn't know anything about that.

Please try to understand what I'm saying, I kindly ask you to ... open your mind just for the next 30 days or so. Watch and let the situations that have arrisen play out. IF you see positive results, I ask you to try and believe to the extent possible that I "just may" have a plan and program that could possibly NOT be a scam.

Please let some time pass and know that I'm the one "under the gun" that MUST perform with NO UP-FRONT FUNDS for one you know of - Dreamer.

Please let me have the time needed as stated, and either I will be proven to be a scammer or fraud. But, believe me, I wouldn't be saying such things just to prove myself a fraud and scammer.

Try to, if you can, allow me to do what I've said within the timeframe as stated. Should things change, I'll post updates. I truly have a deep desire to help others, and I am in a position to do that, and I will.

Thanks,

Clayton

ycchen

September 10th, 2006, 12:27 AM

"Trust me, give me your money." lol

You can continue to pretend to be innocent, but since you are so familiar with the ponzi (or hyips) language, it is hard to imagine that you are neither "habitual ponzi player" and/or "ex/current ponzi owner". :rolleyes:

The "honesty" of the owner has NOTHING to do with whether s/he is running a ponzi or not. It is the cashflow structure that will determine whether a scheme is a ponzi or a legitimate investment.

25% per month is a ponzi. Period.

In November, you can still open your ponzi and collect money, go ahead, no one is stopping you. Just remind that we will be monitoring you scheme very closely. :)

Don't waste you time here on anti-ponzi forum, go to your buddies at MMG because they are the people who will invest in your SLS-ponzi scheme.

Believer

September 10th, 2006, 02:49 AM

"Trust me, give me your money." lol Yes, it is laughable how others say that, I say, "Trust ME, give me your address and I'll send you free money!"

You can continue to pretend to be innocent, but since you are so familiar with the ponzi (or hyips) language, it is hard to imagine that you are neither "habitual ponzi player" and/or "ex/current ponzi owner". :rolleyes:

OH! and don't forget that I must have more money than brains to give away money with no up-front funds from the victims unless I have something that does generates high returns to keep such a plan going. What would you call a plan that doesn't take funds first - Ponzi doesn't fit!

The "honesty" of the owner has NOTHING to do with whether s/he is running a ponzi or not. It is the cashflow structure that will determine whether a scheme is a ponzi or a legitimate investment. Absolutely TRUE!

25% per month is a ponzi. Period. How so! There has to be something supporting giving away such large amounts of funds and it isn't called a ponzi!!!

In November, you can still open your ponzi and collect money, go ahead, no one is stopping you. Just remind that we will be monitoring you scheme very closely. :) Don't keep one eye on me, keep both eyes, tell others to step forward and prove Clayton is a fraud, you need witnesses .... Dreamer will definately be one ... can others come forward that is in a dire situation that may be a "victim" of free money from Clayton?

Don't waste you time here on anti-ponzi forum, go to your buddies at MMG because they are the people who will invest in your SLS-ponzi scheme. No investors are stepping forward ... yet!

You must admit something is amiss here someplace. Without some kind of backing unknown, Clayton can't float a FREE MONEY FIRST program very long ... what is that unknown? Could it be something he has alread stated to be TRUE - God Forbid! We are a scam site and can not have an honest plan be posted here - victims please step forward .... request free money, let it be proven it is a SLS... that is the ONLY way to put Clayton in his place.

Judge Time, hurry up and prove it a SLS.

Gringo

September 10th, 2006, 11:49 AM

My principal is protected and my returns are guaranteed.We are back to a "Guaranteed 25%/mo return with no risk to the principle." lol Once again, if this were true no outside investors would be needed. The traders would simply trade their own small starting stake into trillions of dollars. That again, is why this defies common sense and why it is clearly a SCAM.
I can not reveal how, or who generates the returns as protocol does not allow it - I'm a client just like others, and I'm under an NCND that I'm going to honor to the fullest extent.
Non-disclosure, just like Kim had for his $19 million per week returns that never materialized. Oh, and his principle was guaranteed too. You guys should get together and compare notes, or maybe you already have.:yes: You must admit something is amiss here someplace. Without some kind of backing unknown, Clayton can't float a FREE MONEY FIRST program very long ... what is that unknown? Could it be something he has alread stated to be TRUE - God Forbid!As been stated before, the free money upfront is just a tactic to develop trust so the victims will eventually pull their own money out of pocket into your phoney trading scheme.

Believer

September 10th, 2006, 01:27 PM

Gringo, (Let's try to be friends - I want you to understand some workings in the background, so you can understand where I stand in the whole scheme of things)

I am the Signatory Authority over The Believers Trust, I can prove that shortly. I'll set up a page with a password that I can give you and you can view the papers. I'll also upload the bank account balance just for your information.

REMEMBER THIS" The Believers Trust is a "holding account" for funds to be given away. What percentage it is of "investments" doesn't matter. What is important is: That I can write a check for 150% of any members GFdeposit that I receive. If the funds become limited, I wait for more to arrive and accept membership based upon the funds in TBT.

I have registered The SAM Group, and can set up an office (come November) and ANY AND ALL funds that I collect as "gifts", "donations", or whatever can be used to do things in my hometown, such as give funds to the needy.

And, for every $ I receive, I can (without getting in trouble and going to jail) authorize a 3rd entity, The Believers Trust, to write a check for 150% of whatever the amount was that I took in.

Now, IF I start writing checks on TBT without the proper documentation and records of whom it was sent, it will be considered embezlement - and that I AIN'T gonna do!

Write me a check for $500.00 write V O I D on it, send it to me, and I'll write you a check for $750.00. I'll cash it, keep $500 and send you $250. I can do it that way. All I need is a record of some kind to let those who want to know (the CLIENT, as it's their money in TBT) where it went to. There is no risk there.

Hey Gringo - Good to see you back .... man I thought I had lost you, or you had 2nd thoughts. Hang in there:applause:

We are back to a "Guaranteed 25%/mo return with no risk to the principle." lol Once again, if this were true no outside investors would be needed.

Come on now, I'm "not" looking for "OUTSIDE INVESTORS". The "investment" is there should someone wish to invest. I am LOOKING TO GIVE AWAY MONEY FROM ALREADY INVESTMENTS IN PLACE. Please try to remember this FACT! It gets everything so confused if you don't.

The traders would simply trade their own small starting stake into trillions of dollars. That again, is why this defies common sense and why it is clearly a SCAM.

Possibly so, does it matter? I'll trade mine for as long as they allow through the type programs they offer. We had to wait from late 2005 until August 15th 2006 for a program to open. Do you remember any of that. It was posted at many places. The "Baby Pips" group was so excited when the funds finally got placed, and a program opened.

I don't know how traders work in that field, and I'm sure some get rich and do their own thing. All I can verify is that I'm doing quite well, and enjoy what I'm trying to do. HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH? When I reach that point, I may raise my GIVING from 10% to XX%. I have an inside tract to what could be a "money tree", when I need more, I simply make a phone call.

When others need help, I simply process the request through The Believers Trust which hold funds from "others" that want me to give away their 10%.

Look Gringo, as time goes by, and you see (and can understand my position) you will see that it isn't only me that wants to give and help others, but our clients that we placed are allowing a percentage to be given away of their profits.

I simply set up a way to "SKIM OFF THE TOP" (with their knowledge) by allowing members to send ME a deposit and allow the TBT to write a check for 150% back to them.

Do you see the "cat skinning here", in effect, I kept 100% of their deposit and TBT payed it back PLUS 50%.???

I could just as easily given away the 50% with no deposit, but you see, I CAN NOT TAKE FUNDS OUT OF TBT AND USE THEM IN TSG "WITHOUT" the help of "Believers" I can only get funds out of TBT by writing a check to what I classify as a Believer/member (not investor)

Non-disclosure, just like Kim had for his $19 million per week returns that never materialized.

That's not my problem, our funds have materalized otherwise TBT would not exist or have a reason to exist.

Oh, and his principle was guaranteed too. Very GOOD!

You guys should get together and compare notes, or maybe you already have.:yes: Would you know if my name is on his visitor list?

As been stated before, the free money upfront is just a tactic to develop trust so the victims will eventually pull their own money out of pocket into your phoney trading scheme.

Let's presume that happens, then I will be able to have more money to give away in our home town, and TBT will write more checks equivalent of 150% of the funds they sent me because each new client generates more funds to be given away ... Let's hope it happens.

I can assure you that IF there aren't enough funds to cover 150% of what the members/Believer sends me, I will return the GFDeposit or IF known in time will advise the member not to send it.

Just like now! I'm not asking anyone to send any funds because that project isn't quite set up. I'm receiving some small amounts that are to be used to pay those that posted their $50 and a few that have touched my heart string a thousand or so in order to help them help themselves.

Gringo, (Let's try to be friends - I want you to understand some workings in the background, so you can understand where I stand in the whole scheme of things)

[COLOR="DarkRed"]I am the Signatory Authority over The Believers Trust, I can prove that shortly. I'll set up a page with a password that I can give you and you can view the papers. I'll also upload the bank account balance just for your information.

REMEMBER THIS" The Believers Trust is a "holding account" for funds to be given away. What percentage it is of "investments" doesn't matter. What is important is: That I can write a check for 150% of any members GFdeposit that I receive. If the funds become limited, I wait for more to arrive and accept membership based upon the funds in TBT.

I have registered The SAM Group, and can set up an office (come November) and ANY AND ALL funds that I collect as "gifts", "donations", or whatever can be used to do things in my hometown, such as give funds to the needy.

And, for every $ I receive, I can (without getting in trouble and going to jail) authorize a 3rd entity, The Believers Trust, to write a check for 150% of whatever the amount was that I took in.

Now, IF I start writing checks on TBT without the proper documentation and records of whom it was sent, it will be considered embezlement - and that I AIN'T gonna do!

Write me a check for $500.00 write V O I D on it, send it to me, and I'll write you a check for $750.00. I'll cash it, keep $500 and send you $250. I can do it that way. All I need is a record of some kind to let those who want to know (the CLIENT, as it's their money in TBT) where it went to. There is no risk there.

The Believers Trust is simply a holding account for funds to be GIVEN AWAY by all the clients that are involved with the trading entity. Real Estate, bonds, stocks, gold, securities, oil & gas, etc. etc. etc. The part they are allowing to be GIVEN AWAY goes into TBT.

Those funds are under my control, as long as I don't screw up and "skim" more than what is allowed for me to "skim off the top". Do you see how the plan is proposed to work.

If a member sends me $1.00 I KEEP IT! TBT pays the member $1.50 out of the funds set aside and held in TBT that are ear-marked to be given away (and not to me, but to anyone, anywhere, doesn't matter to me, I kept the $1.00 that was sent to me, and MUST pass out at the rate of 150% to the person that gave me the $1.00) Can you see how it works now.

The 25% per month over 60 days is just my way of saying: "Don't give me another $1.00 bill until 60 days have passed. I don't want you to do it again tomorrow and the next day, and the next day. I want you to be reasonable and do it ONLY once every 60 days and do not send me more than $500 per term.

AGAIN, TBT will have more than 150% of any funds that I will accept and you send me. I can't get to the 150% unless there is another party needing it. Yes, I get you to give me 100%, but I can then LEGALLY authorize TBT to write you a check for 150% of what I received from you. It's the ONLY legal way for me to give you 50% MORE than you gave me, and the ONLY legal way I can get to the funds set aside to be given away.

YES, I can go around passing out amounts of funds from TBT and writing check in any amount to anyone, but the stipulations say I, ME, TSG, CAN only GET to the funds IF you, anyone, gives ME the money. It's a fair trade and way for everyone to get to the money held by the trust to be given away.

DO YOU SEE, I NEED YOU AS MUCH AS YOU NEED ME in order to get to the trust funds.

ANOTHER THING: The 25% shouldn't be looked at as an investment. It is only used to keep up with how much money I can KEEP.

[COLOR="Sienna"]EXAMPLE:

PROBLEM:

1) The Believers Trust holds funds to be given away.

2) I, me, TSG, can not access those funds in any way or in any manner for the benefit of ME, TSG.

3) The member (in most cases) MUST give first.

SOLUTION:

The member can GIVE to me, TSG and I, or TSG can KEEP 100% of every GFDeposit received.

The Believers Trust WILL send to the member an amount equivalent to 150% of the GFDeposit.

NOW, SUPPOSE: The Believers Trust has $150,000 AWAITING to be given away. That means, I can ONLY accept as the funds I can receive from members/Believers $100K because I HAVE TO, AND MUST give away 150% to the member/Believer.

OK, I accepted $100K from the member for myself and on behalf of TSG.

The Member/Believer is paid $150K from TBT.

The Trust is EMPTY now. I can not accept any further funds from anyone until TBT is re-funded.

And, I have sufficient funds of my own that I won't even be tempted to do anything illegal.

Gringo, do you see MY PROBLEM! I can not get to any funds in TBT, even though I am the Signatory Authority, to give away here in my hometown without YOU and others? I need you as much as you want to receive an equivalent of 25% per month over a 2 month term. It's not an investment on your part, it is the ONLY a way I can "SKIN THE CAT" and keep the pelt, and you can get your 50% based upon a GFDeposit!

Yes, I know, when I first started explaining the plan, quotes were made that made it appear something it wasn't. I sincerely wish I could start over.

That is why I was asking for comments and suggestions; all I got was criticism instead of suggestions. No one understood the basics.

The longer we converse, maybe I can get it across as to how the plan works so I can get funds out of the trust for my purposes and you can receive an equivalent of 25% per month over a 60 day term on yours (if you look at it as an investment).

Did this help any at all to explain the "cashflow"? I need money to operate TSG in my home town, you wish to receive some of those funds that are available to be given away with NO RISK.

Write me a check (something to back me up that I did in fact give away the funds from TBT), V O I D the check out. I'll use that VOID CHECK as my record to write you 50% of the amount of the VOID CHECK. Of course, I'll have to write you a check for 150% of the check, I'll have to KEEP 100% AND SEND YOU 50%. It's the same thing. The process allowed me to take funds from TBT and you got free money.

This may be close to breeding rattlesnakes with cats, but as long as the kittens are born, we have more pelts without killing the cats, because they will skin themselves twice per year.

Take Care my friend,

proberts123

September 10th, 2006, 01:48 PM

What we do here ideally, is prevent people from falling for scams like yours. We also help pick up the pieces afterward, but then it's usually too late to recover their money.

But what "if" a program is truly for real.. What if it sounds to have unreasonable returns.. but can deliver on them..? Yes I believe in MatrixWatch and think it provides advance insights. But to have a blanket, "everything is a scam" approach.. well as with most everything else.. there is no one answer to fit all situations.

It has been suggested that Clayton and TBT is just giving away "bait" monies.. and 25% is unreasonable. Call me gullable but I think I understand the 25% return is based upon taking $15K cash flow and allotting it to a fixed amount of believers at the controled contribution amount to yield 25% return. Maybe the $15K cash flow represents only 3% return on the larger Believers Trust's core funds.. no not the contributed member funds. By allocating the cash flow and limiting member contributions TBT could offer 100% or 200% a month and though that sounds really unreasonable.. by allocating their cash flow.. the core funds can actually make reasonable returns.... it's only the Believers trust distribution of funds that sounds unreasonable. The Believers as they are called it appears simply are rewarded for their faith in the program, faith representing their contribution.

I think I understand Clayton and TBT want to give away a portion of their core cash flow... Yes that may not make sense to everyone... but there are excentric people in the world that want to give away money.. so is that a possibility here..?

You say the $$ that is being given away is Bait $$. But it seems to me TBT limits account size and members can't have multiple accounts. Therefore the "bait" can not generate life savings from individuals.

I say give the guy a break.. I'm going to give it a try.. even with all the warnings out there. It's worth the price just to take opposite stance and for feeling of being contrarian.

I won't cry if you are right.. BUT I sure will laugh and smile when paid 25% / mo. Time is the great equializer.. Time either proves something true or fake.. Some choose to play and some wait on sidelines.. What I like about TBT is they don't encourage to add life savings later.. their participation is capped..
Gains are capped and losses are capped too.

I've been watching on side lines and Just wanted to put my 2 cents worth into the mix..

Good Day..

P Roberts

Webwatch

September 10th, 2006, 02:05 PM

Hello PRoberts123 and welcome to Matrixwatch.

As you can probably guess i'm a bit of a skeptic or Non-Believer or whatever you like to call me thats fine, I do believe this is just a badly thought through scam but how you chose to spend your money is up to you.

As you are going to give this a try please keep us posted on how you get on.

I'm sure Believer will be around to answer any questions you may have.

Believer

September 10th, 2006, 03:40 PM

Hi WW,

I was afraid you had "fallen from Grace". Good to see you aren't wishie washie.

Clatyon

Believer

September 10th, 2006, 04:11 PM

I'm in the chat room this afternoon 9/10/06 15:00 pm Sunday. Join me there or call this number and tell me when you want to meet:

206-339-6220 - I will be paged and will meet you there within 30 minutes.

Clayton

Gringo

September 10th, 2006, 05:47 PM

Come on now, I'm "not" looking for "OUTSIDE INVESTORS". The "investment" is there should someone wish to invest. I am LOOKING TO GIVE AWAY MONEY FROM ALREADY INVESTMENTS IN PLACE. Please try to remember this FACT! Funny, the whole purpose of this money giveaway IS to find investors according to your website: We do have an ulterior motive for offering the above plan:Since we wish to generate a large membership in the hyip arena to help us acquire large fund clients, we are willing to reward them for their efforts. We have found that individuals that are familiar with our program will refer others to us, and that surfaces clients that we would otherwise not have found.
The traders would simply trade their own small starting stake into trillions of dollars. That again, is why this defies common sense and why it is clearly a SCAM.
Possibly so, does it matter?Yes, because I don't invest in something that defies common sense.I don't know how traders work in that field, and I'm sure some get rich and do their own thing. Well I do know how traders work. If a trader could make 25%/mo. with no risk, they would NEVER need to seek out clients, especially with the methods you are using. Warren Buffett, the world's most successful investor, made around 30% per YEAR during his most successful period. If your traders could come even close to that, they would have hedge funds, super wealthy individuals and organizations begging them to take their funds and manage their money.

Gringo

September 10th, 2006, 05:49 PM

But to have a blanket, "everything is a scam" approach.. well as with most everything else.. there is no one answer to fit all situations.
Each program is evaluated individually and judged on its own merits.It has been suggested that Clayton and TBT is just giving away "bait" monies.. and 25% is unreasonable. Call me gullable but I think I understand the 25% return is based upon taking $15K cash flow and allotting it to a fixed amount of believers at the controled contribution amount to yield 25% return.And why would someone do this? Answer: As bait to gain confidence.I think I understand Clayton and TBT want to give away a portion of their core cash flow... Yes that may not make sense to everyone... but there are excentric people in the world that want to give away money.. so is that a possibility here..?
Sure there are excentrics that give away money. There are others with wealth that give millions to charities. You have to look at the whole picture as it is presented:
1. The program was orginally presented as "Baby Pips". It is still hosted on a domain by that name. Pips is a well known scam.
2. The whole purpose of this money giveaway is to find big clients for their investment program. Quote from their site: We do have an ulterior motive for offering the above plan:Since we wish to generate a large membership in the hyip arena to help us acquire large fund clients, we are willing to reward them for their efforts. We have found that individuals that are familiar with our program will refer others to us, and that surfaces clients that we would otherwise not have found. As you can see, they clearly state the whole purpose of this money givaway is to find some big fish for their hyip. Clearly this is not the same thing as someone making charitable donations with no expectation of return.You say the $$ that is being given away is Bait $$. But it seems to me TBT limits account size and members can't have multiple accounts. Therefore the "bait" can not generate life savings from individuals.
There are two separate elements to this: The money giveaway,which is limited, and the secret "private securities trading" which will gladly accept thousands of of your dollars.What I like about TBT is they don't encourage to add life savings later.. their participation is capped.. See the above, there are no caps on the investment portion. As far as limited losses or risk on the investment side, the higher the return, the greater the risk. Any "guarantee" is only as good as the person backing it. The person backing this plan? Sorry it's a secret.

Believer

September 10th, 2006, 07:36 PM

QUOTE: See the above, there are no caps on the investment portion. As far as limited losses or risk on the investment side, the higher the return, the greater the risk. Any "guarantee" is only as good as the person backing it. The person backing this plan? Sorry it's a secret. UNQUOTE:

It's not a secret to the "investor" that has a different protocol to follow. He or she can either accept the parameters set fourth in a BOOK WRITTEN BY THE TRADING ENTITY, or they can withdraw.

Also, we have about 7 out of 10 investors fail to qualify to invest their funds with this entity.

ACTUAL FACT: The Believers Trust holds funds to be GIVEN AWAY. There is no other way for those funds to be utilized, and must be authorized to be released by myself as the Signatory Authority. I have certain stipulations that I MUST follow to write the check.

ACTUAL FACT: I can get anyone, anywhere a percentage of the funds out of the trust by fanagaling. (Don't make me give a defination of that word).

PM me, ask questions.

I know I can not convience you that the SLS isn't! But, I can get you some funds with NO RISK. Ask me how, some have already written me. It will be November right after the first funding for this project arrives.

UPDATE: Our attorney (not named) traveled this weekend to meet with the trading entity Monday and/or Tuesday. He will tell me early this next week when the LARGE funds will arrive in October and how much. I doubt if I will even quote the amount that is to arrive because it would be ridiculed. So, take the 'NO RISK' route ... it will help me twice as much as it helps you. I get 100% and you get 50% of the 150% check that I authorize TBT to write.

ONE WORD OF CAUTION: Do not re-apply for a minimum of 60 days. If I allow someone to cheat the system, I'll be penalized myself. So, don't place me in such a position ... there is plenty of funds for everyone.

If you need more than $250 (which is the maximum I can allow over a 60 day period of time) Please write me and we can work out another arrangedment. Do not try to cheat the system, as it places my position at risk.

Each individual is limited to a MAXIMUM of $500 which can be used over and over and over for as long as you like. That is the MAXIMUM one person will be allowed to send to me.

NOW, as for the investment side: You keep your fund in your account UNTIL you have been approved by the trading entity, and then you will be introduced to the trading entity directly and it will be up to you to proceed DIRECTLY with the trading entity OR not accept the contract.

It is not my desire to place your funds at risk at any time while doing my duty of GIVING THE TRUST FUNDS AWAY. We can fanagle!

There seem to be a few that are going to participate with me that post here. I'm not going to ask them to make any post cheerleading my SLS. It will shortly prove to be one way or another.

Just remember: I need the funds out of the TBT in order to do what I want to in my hometown. I need people to make GFDeposits so I can in essence give them 50% of the 150% taken out of TBT. I keep 100% of the 150%.IF YOU UNDERSTAND THIS POINT, IT WILL MAKE THE WHOLE PLAN MAKE SENSE TO YOU. Clayton is looking out for Clayton, but, Clayton needs you in order to do it. So, let's fanagle. Write me a voided check!!!

Webwatch

September 11th, 2006, 05:55 PM

Write me a check for $500.00 write V O I D on it, send it to me, and I'll write you a check for $750.00. I'll cash it, keep $500 and send you $250. I can do it that way. All I need is a record of some kind to let those who want to know (the CLIENT, as it's their money in TBT) where it went to. There is no risk there.

Voided cheques now thats interesting -so no one needs send you any money now, in fact I suppose you could just ask members to make cheques payable to 'The Needy' and then write void on them, howabout an update on your website to show this new method.

Or you could go a step further and just ask for IOU's for say $500 then when you receive them send the person who sent the IOU $750 and ask them to send $500 back to you as per the original IOU.

This would of course require trust on your part, but as your good at expecting it are you just as good at giving it, or should I say investing it as your expecting the members to send you the original $500 back.

Make sure PRoberts123 (one of your early prospects) knows about this new method.

Believer

September 11th, 2006, 06:59 PM

Hello WW,

Voided cheques now thats interesting -so no one needs send you any money now, in fact I suppose you could just ask members to make cheques payable to 'The Needy' and then write void on them, howabout an update on your website to show this new method.

Or you could go a step further and just ask for IOU's for say $500 then when you receive them send the person who sent the IOU $750 and ask them to send $500 back to you as per the original IOU.

This would of course require trust on your part, but as your good at expecting it are you just as good at giving it, or should I say investing it as your expecting the members to send you the original $500 back.

No, all I expect is for their check to be bad!

Make sure PRoberts123 (one of your early prospects) knows about this new method.

WW,

I won't mention names, but a couple of my basheres have alredy taken me up on the VOIDED check idea. I'm sure they will reveal themselves if I don't perform. I'm having to trust them that their check isn't anygood! So you see, I trust them.

The IOU is too much trouble, and I have to have proof to present to the auditors that I received a check (voided or not) from someone. The stipulations state I MUST receive a CHECK. I asked the attorney if a voided check would work, he said yes. So, this is what I'm going to do.

Now, when the trust funds get low, I may lower the MINIMUM one can write a VOIDED CHECK for .... ever heard of that before? Your bad check can't be more than we can accept.. lol

I doubt if too many will take me up on the offer because as most of you have accomplished at this forum a NEGATIVE ATTITUDE toward my SLS.

But, as long as the trust funds are rollin in, I'll cash the TBT check, keep my 2/3rds and send the 1/3 out to the victim of my SLS.

Just remember, I can only take one bad check every 2 months, and there may be a limit imposed as to how many bad checks I can accept from one person ... uh! victim.

Naaah! I'm not going to post it at the information site just yet. I have too many to pay right now, and more request are coming in all the time.

Come February 07' when we have over $250K per month to pass out, I may start handing out the 50% (if I can get it approved) without any verification to the accounting department.

By then, we will have either FAILED (as you hope we will) or we will be the biggest SLS on the web accepting BAD CHECKS from investors and paying them with REAL good checks.

I either have something that I KNOW is real, or I'm setting myself for a TREMENDOUS FALL AND SCORNING from this web site.

Now, which do you suppose it is?:evil:

P.S. As for Paul ... PRoberts123 ... he got $200 already. He will tell you. Ask him, he'll make a post if you ask. He told me he wasn't going to be a cheerleader, and I didn't ask him to either, but since you brought it up ... LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN TO ALL.

Webwatch

September 12th, 2006, 03:44 PM

I'm always interested in comments not worthy of answering. My wife asks me all the time ... "Did you hear me?" I say, yes, I heard you, I've got selective hearing and what you said wasn't in my selection to hear and comment on!" Then I get up and take out the garbage while shes looking for the rollerpin!

You see WW, you can do the same thing as her, delete post, ban me for 3 or 4 months, criticize me and do what ever you want. You're de' man! I have no recourse except PERFORM and pay my SLS membership. Which I will do because I believe in GIVING and I believe in the promises from the Bible stating you WILL be REWARDED for giving. I CLAIM that PROMISE! Many here may not Believe such scriptures because they have never given or acknowledged that Scripture, but I do! So, LET'S GET ON WITH IT!

See you around the forum!

Just remember: Clayton's SLS pays! Ask the question here and have them make a post. Open a thread for people who have been paid by Clayton and his SLS. That way, the negative thinkers won't have to search this thread to see if what I claim is TRUE! You ... WW .... open a thread specifically for showing PAID! I promise I will not post within the thread!

Hi Believer I bought this over from the other thread as it was so way off topic I thought it better to be addressed her.

Firstly I wont delete your posts or ban you as long as you don't breach the rules you agreed to when you became a member of Matrixwatch, rules I have to abide by also or I will get banned.

My voice is no louder than yours just because I am a Moderator here and my opinion is no more valid in fact I'm even capable of making mistakes. :eek:

Surely you must see by now that the way you have presented your scheme and the analogies and comical posts will not endere you to investors (givers as you like to call them) and what you have tried to do by promoting your scheme here will have the opposite effect, apart from Paul of course who has decided to invest. ;)

Anyway keep trying to convince us why your scheme is such a great investment I'm sure a few may be tricked into making a small test spend.

Keep reguritating your religious quotes and out of context "Give and you will receive" nonsense because all it is doing is making your scheme look like exactly what it is-yes you guessed it a scam.

You also seem to believe that I hope you will fail, this is incorrect, what I really hope for is that you never get started but if you do then I hope people wont fall into your trap and start sending you huge amounts of cash and their life savings.

Believer

September 12th, 2006, 04:57 PM

Hi Believer I bought this over from the other thread as it was so way off topic I thought it better to be addressed here.

OK!

Firstly I wont delete your posts or ban you as long as you don't breach the rules you agreed to when you became a member of Matrixwatch, rules I have to abide by also or I will get banned.

I'll come to your defense and get banned as well! (on second thought, I woud have already been banned! Ummm!

My voice is no louder than yours just because I am a Moderator here and my opinion is no more valid in fact I'm even capable of making mistakes. :eek:

No Way!!!!

Surely you must see by now that the way you have presented your scheme and the analogies and comical posts will not endere you to investors (givers as you like to call them) and what you have tried to do by promoting your scheme here will have the opposite effect, apart from Paul of course who has decided to invest. ;)

Too bad for Paul ... I guess!

As for the others ... screen names not mentioned ... Something for NOTHING just isn't right, now is it?

Anyway keep trying to convince us why your scheme is such a great investment I'm sure a few may be tricked into making a small test spend.

It isn't an investment. I said, "turn your hearing aid all the way up" ... It isn't an investment.

Test spends aren't welcome; send me a REAL V O I D ed CHECK, or I'll return it marked "No Good"!

Keep reguritating your religious quotes and out of context "Give and you will receive" nonsense because all it is doing is making your scheme look like exactly what it is-yes you guessed it a scam.

Ununha! It's a "silly little scam", no relation to a REAL SCAM.

You also seem to believe that I hope you will fail, Deep down you do, now admit it!

this is incorrect, what I really hope for is that you never get started Doing what?but if you do then I hope people wont fall into your trap "with a stair case leading all the way to the bankand start sending you huge amounts of cash and their life savings.You mean a Voided $500 check is some peoples life savings?

I WON'T let anyone send me their life savings, rent money, baby's milk money, grocery money, and any other money out of their budget, or bank account. I SIMPLY WON'T ALLOW IT!:nono:

If someone sends me any money, it will be a "proof of funds" (non-cashable) and then I will refer them on to a professional.

WW, I see your point, You are (just like me) not wanting anyone to be scammed by promoting something at this site. I understand that point.

I'm not promoting a scam here, if I were, I would be the STUPIDIEST (Well not the stupidienst person because I wouldn't be smart enought to be called the STUPIDIEST) PERSON posting at this forum.

HERE is the BOTTOM LINE:

I have access to funds that can be given away .... I can not get to those funds for personal reasons or otherwise even though I have access to them. ... I need others to GIVE TO ME, so I can send them the funds I have access to and can't get to without their help.

As I have stated many times before, I have access to funds that MUST be given to others. I have ONLY set up a plan whereby I can receive funds for TSG and give locally. I can't seem to get this point across because it is NEVER commented on within threads that make comments and it was posted within that thread.

What is commented on mostly is Biblical Scriptures and why they should not be used and who will and who won't believe them. I "Believe", I'm a Believer. Others have to decide for themselves based upon what they know is TRUTH!

My intent is to GIVE AWAY MONEY to those that deserve it ... If it takes Belief on their part to receive the money, then that is something they will have to acquire in order for them to fall within the "scheme" of my plan (SLS).

NO ONE will EVER by scammed by me, or anyone I have dealings with that are in the background of this plan to SIMPLY GIVE AWAY MONEY TO THOSE WHO GIVE FIRST!

I don't know how else to say it. I have simply run out of way to say it. I'm beginning to think most people don't know what "it" is! Many don't know where "it" is! And others simply can't find it within themselves to Believe "it".

If Biblical principals turn someone off, then "IT'S not my fault". If I am being REWARDED for giving and I accept that "ALL good things come from God", then I'm only giving credit to the One that REWARDED me". I can't help if some Believers believe and Non-Believers don't believe. The FACT remains, NO ONE has stepped forward to say they were scammed by me..

Others, yet to post who have been helped during our pre-launch, will (may) make a post at some point in time as we get closer to launching the plan come November that others (Admins of hyip scams) try to duplicate and have FAILED in the past. This plan will, and as long as I have anything to do with "it", be REWARDing to the membership and strangers on the street, and families whose homes have burned, or child that is in need of medical treatment ... and it will be with 'NO UP-FRONT' MONEY paid to me or anyone else working in the background of this SLS.

I have authority to access a LARGE amount of money, but must follow certain guidlines. I MUST Give the money to someone in need, and IF possible REWARD a giver in the process.

How I am going about it may not be to many's liking, but I never got any suggestions, only NEGATIVE COMMENTS, so I am going to do it MY WAY without anyone's help that posts here!

If the way I am doing it turns people off at sites like this, then I'll find others outside the hyip arena and GET R' DONE!

UPDATE: The hurricane kept our attorney from landing, and it may be later this week before I can get the answers as to when the REAL funds will arrive in October and HOW MUCH!

I will not post figures or financial information except at the UPDATE page, but will give time tables as to when our program will be launched and anyone that wishes to can participaqte.

Until next time,

Clayton/Believer

Arzel

September 12th, 2006, 05:34 PM

I commented on this in another thread, and I just want to reiriterate, that under no circumstances should anyone give Clayton/Believer a voided check. You should never give away any personal information, including credit card numbers or checking acount information.

A good thief needs to only know your name and address along with your checking acount number to cause you untold problems. Since Clayton seems to be a scammer, there is no way I would ever trust him with such information.

Believer

September 12th, 2006, 05:55 PM

And, do not send a check to your internet provider, landlord, grocery store, credit card account, stay paranoid ... everyone is out to get you.

If it sounds too good to be true then it will keep you from investing in the stock market or giving a check to a broker. It will certainly keep you from getting ahead in life.

Look around you at those who are older and never took a chance in anything because they BELIEVE like arzel and others that post here.

Look at every one that "SEEMS" to be a scammer as being a "scammer" take NO CHANCES or you just might better yourself, and that is a no-no!

Don't listen to those that know Clayton, don't believe them, listen to those that don't know Clayton ... they have the BEST ADVICE money can't buy.

Bring fourth those scammed by Clayton; or those that have benefited and wish to post can come fourth on their own.

Clayton doesn't need "cheerleaders"; Judge Time will be his judge and jury; not Non-Believing Cheerleaders.

Listen to nay-sayers; and remain in the financial condition you are currently in.

Do you have to reveal your address? If you want a check, it would be good to have, simply mark everything else you don't want Clayton to know off with a BLACK felt tip pen. All he needs is something proving he did not use the funds any anyway not authorized by the trust.

Thimk for yourself. Or let others dictate to you how to thimk!

As I have said before, people, negative thinkers and cheerleaders that say everything is a scam simply makes me sick! It's ok for them to disagree, and it's ok if I get sick. But, it's not OK for someone to keep someone else from bettering themselves due to "NEGATIVE THINKING".

Take precautions in all dealings with people you don't know. But, don't let the "safety precautions" that you take be lax in anyway.

Clayton is in contact with several that have visited this thread and forum, and are putting their faith in him. Someone that doesn't know Clayton can't be a character reference to a logical person. Now, negative thiMkers will take it as FACT; but, not any other kind of thinkers!

Everything takes time when something real in involved; in scams, it appears to have already happened. Our plan is on a timetable, and the professionals working in the background are bringing it all together. When it is up and running according to a schedule, then people like Arzel will be put in their place and looked upon as being what they are - negative thinkers.

So, take Arzel's advice if you like, all he has to offer in the way of advice is "place no trust in anyone" which includes himself as well!

DO NOT SEND A CHECK unless you have marked everything off except your name and address. That is required - comon sense tell you that! (A notice will be posted at the information site when this particular way of getting the free money becomes available). The timetable is posted at the URL.

clayton (clone)

Webwatch

September 12th, 2006, 08:14 PM

Believer,
Arzel gives sound common sense advice and you turn into some sort of ficticious Gollum/Smeegle character (don't think he could be trusted either) from a J R Tolkien novel to make a weak attempt at ridiculing this advice.

Its interesting how you are starting to talk about yourself in the third person as this shows a subconscious separation from your own persona, it could be construed as a defence mechanisum that the brain uses when it knows a situation of mistrust is present-it also allows you to separate what you know to be an act of deception from your own self image and when it starts to go wrong this gives you a way for your own conscious to be placated.
Just a thought :)

After all the rambling by the end of your post you have then partially agreed with this advice and just want the name and address left on the voided cheque which isn't advisable either but of course promises of a 150% return in 10 days may make common sense an optional extra in any form of participation in your scheme.

Arzel

September 12th, 2006, 09:11 PM

I also mentioned this on another post, but "blacking out" information on a check does not protect you. Anyone with the knowledge can "see" right through the blackout.

Clayton,

I call this a scam, because it is. I am not sure what angle you are exactly trying to work, but to trust you would be a huge mistake.

Just remember that I am not asking anyone for anything, my only wish is to try and keep people from being suckered into a scam.

Believer

September 12th, 2006, 09:17 PM

My scheme is solid! Your intent in posting is noted. But, you calling my plan a scam is in error!

Ima did the rambling, I told her not to do that anymore .. just be blunt and call an idiot ad idiot. So, she did, then I told her not MEEEE! Those that comment on WebWatch. She said, "if the shoe fits wear it". I told her I only wear shoes that fit ... what's your point? She looked at me like I was crazy!

Ima agreed about the name and address part. I need what I need in order to cover myself.

We'll see very soon about the venture and my scheme. Then I'll be back and rub it in!

Some have received funds already that had found me early on back early in the year. I've got some personal funds I've used in special cases.

I've changed the signature below to have the name and address ONLY on the return envelope and not the check or the bank account number. So, I've stopped asking for a check pre-printed and issued by a bank. I do need what I need in order to authorize TBT to send out a check .... I need to know who sent the V O I D ed check and their address, so a return address on the envelope containing the voided check will suffice.

A bank counter check with no name, no signature, no bank account number, and no information except the amount. I need to know something!

I know you don't believe anything I say, so we'll leave it at that. So, continue giving everyone precautions to follow so I can get them REAL CASHABLE CHECKS.

Our plan is solid, and November is quickly approachinng.

I am beginning to feel bad because the way I'm going to work the plan is keep TWICE as much as I send out to the person that writes the VOIDED check. I'll get to keep 100% of the amount and only send 50% of that amount on to the person whos name is on the return envelope. Well, that's the way scammers work isn't it ... they keep the largest part of the pie ... in this case the amount on the bank counter VOIDED check is all mine, and 50% of that amount is his/hers. I'm feeling bad already! Thanks for pointing out the error of my ways. But, on the other hand, it's my REWARD for giving away the 50%. So, I'm feeling better all over again for scamming .... I'll have to think about that, I don't see a victim in this scheme. Isn't there supposed to be a VICTIM in a scam? Can you point out that person and tell me which side he is on and where he is? I need victims and can't seem to find any.

Your criticism makes me look in the mirrow and I get sick. I asked my theropist what was wrong, he said he didn't know but, your eye sight is perfect. My kids flip a coin just to see who is going to kiss me good night.
Clayton

proberts123

September 12th, 2006, 10:41 PM

Now let me get this straight.. there are those that recommend not to send void check, and don't send their address to Clayton.. they can't figure out what angle Clayton is floating.. but they theorize it's something dishonest. But on flip side, if Clayton hopes to deliver on promise of 150% return in 10 days.. how on earth can he send anyone funds without their address..? I notice Clayton has revised the entry rules to include a voided bank "counter" check. (That is a type of check without name or account No. on the check.. That info is "written" in by the account owner, not pre printed on the check.. I assume with counter check it simply does not have to be filled in. So no need to scratch out any info.. simply do not write account no on it. Sounds like protection enough for anyone wanting to not share their account number with someone they don't know. As for not shaing address.. well how can anyone receive funds without giving their location..? (yes some will say e-currency.. but as for me I prefer hard currency like USD's not e-currency.

In these days and age I see the logic of being careful. However I also put in perspective the worry factor depending upon funds at risk. For what it's worth I participated by sending clayton some real funds, not counter check in a prior project of his and I got paid.. I did my own level due dilligence and though no dilligence is perfect I chose to participate. Well I got paid and I'd do it again. I hope this does not sound like a cheerleader or such.. but the truth is.. his methods may be un-conventional, but his ability to deliver as far as I'm concerned have proven themselves to me.

Someone really should make a new thread where persons can post either they got paid or not paid by TBT or Clayton. That may not be proof of ongoing success.. but show a trend Clayton is man of his word.. Others may say such a thread would only be enticement or bait for future funds..

I really like Arzel's tag line: There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who do not. However the tag line I'd like to use is: there are 10 type of persons that know binary.. Those that believe in Clayton and those that do not..
I still like Arzel's line best..

Good luck - good day..

P. Roberts

ycchen

September 12th, 2006, 11:02 PM

So, it is just pure money game? lol lol

From MatrixWatch standpoint, all the language used by Believer is identical to any scammers we encounter. Therefore, we strongly urge all MW members NOT to participate in Believer's scam. :nono: :nono:

Getting paid in the beginning only proves that Believer's scam is starting earlier and the early birds get paid to provide positive feedback. Beside, there is no hard evidence that someone really get paid.

We don't really care if anyone get paid, our anlaysis is based on the sustainable cashflow structure of the scheme or business.

Unable to prove the sustainability of his/her "scheme" (25% per month is a scam), Beleiver turn into charity! :shake:

Even with his/her charity plead, there is absolutely no transparency on this charity fund. A charity operating in a blackbox. The source of funding unknown, the purpose of charity unknown, No website to learn more about the charity .... absolutely nothing.

Obviously, the charity that Believer is offering in the beginning is a bait. Sooner or later, someone (often convinced by the promoter/supporter who get "paid") will send him/her (we don't even know whether Believer's sex. :shake: ) a blank check because they thought s/he is as honest as our mighty god. :shake:

Believer

September 12th, 2006, 11:36 PM

Judge Time will tell the tail!

SET UP A THREAD where only those that feel they have been scammed or feel otherwise can post.

Then Judge TIME will render the decision.

It's hard to have a shouting match with an idiot so says Ima. So, I'll take her advice in this case.

Calling something a scam and NOT knowing anything about what's going is foolish. Do your due diligence.

I have a MONEY TREE that I can get funds from every month. I have to have a document to persent to the accounting department so I won't violiate any of the trusts stipulations. So, I need VICTIMS to give money to. Not victims from my scheme, but victims who were scammed before.

I have it worked out and a plan is in place. So, I will get to keep 66.67% and send the member/Believer 33.33% for NOTHING more than a number on a VOID check and some place to send it to. It's a PERFECT scam on my behalf to get funds for my hometown projects. And, there are no real VICTIMS anywhere that I can tell.

If you see anything wrong with this, please tell the readers to be cautious and don't send me any money, or information that could be used to do whatever you say can be done to cheat them.

Then a thread can be made where the 'VICTIMS" can make post either positive or negative in regard to being paid or scammed. It will be known in very short order which way future transactions will go.

You can even ban me from posting in that thread, which I will honor voluntarily.

So, how about it? You want people not to be scammed, so I think a thread for that specific purpose would be the best thing to do. I don't want people to be victims, and a thread for that purpose would work wonders ... now don't you think so as well?

IF NOT, then what would you suggest since it appears I'm going to be here for awhile. Let's stop the SCAM in its tracts at the FIRST "real verifiable" SIGN of illegal activity.

So, what do you say? Can I start the thread, or would you rather start it to the left under some topic or new topic. YOUR CHOICE.

You have no idea what good I can do when things get set up like I want them.

proberts123

September 13th, 2006, 12:02 AM

So, it is just pure money game? lol lol

Getting paid in the beginning only proves that Believer's scam is starting earlier and the early birds get paid to provide positive feedback. Beside, there is no hard evidence that someone really get paid.

I'd like to ask this question.. how long time is something considered to be "early bird" bait..? If Clayton and TBT stay in Biz for 6 mos.. is that early bird bait.. How about if a year he still is paying.. What of 2 years.. or 3..? I understand and agree some programs.. I mean most programs may use the bait and switch.. as in stop paying as their plan. And I agree most may use bait period and that is why it is important to have doubts and question.

That's exactly why I waited to be one of the last persons in one of Clayton's earlier plans... and last in proved successful too. Just call me too optimistic Clayton proved himself to me with return and profit on earlier funds.. Clayton talks about Time as being Judge to measure by.. Therefore from expert stand point can someone say how long to avoid or insure against a bait period.. and how long till track record proves something is possible..? Once bait period is identified.. then thread of those paid and not paid will have more relevance... yes..? no..?

That's all for now..
Good night..

P. Roberts

Arzel

September 13th, 2006, 12:38 AM

The biggest problem with this whole scheme (and why it looks to be a scam) is that it does not make any logical scense.

Believer has a source of funds (so he says). However, the source is not confirmable, and the ability to continually generate high returns are also not confirmable. He refuses to divulge any information regarding the people involved, nor any reason to believe that any of this actually exists.

He promised to return a 50% return in two months (doubling in 120 days approx.) which is very similar to ponzi like schemes, and definately an return rate which is not sustainable in any legitmate investment over a long time period. The fact that he says there is no risk is also a red flag, as no investment is without risk, and especially not one of with such a high rate of return.

He asked for a voided check (huge red flag) and even though he has ammeded this to a bank counter check, the reasoning behind this is not logical. Seriously, what is the point? He needs proof that someone is willing to give before they can recieve, however sending a voided check is not really showing a willingness to give, futhermore he states that he is looking to give to needy people, yet is focusing on what is typically a segment which is simply looking for a fast buck.

So what is the story? He is setting up a confidence scheme. The beginning, however novel or strange it might seem, is simply to set up the scheme to gain the trust of a group of victims so that in the future he can rip them off.

I personally suggest not giving him any personal information (regardless of how minor it may seem) because there are so many red flags associated with this scheme that it screams out scam. The fact that it was associated initially with PIPS should be enough of a reason alone to run away.

Now we see the first chearleader to try and give some "proof" that this is legit, however this is a catch-22 in the con game. They always seem legit intially, that is how they work, and why he is so persistant on trying to provide some proof that this is a legit scheme.

The underlying aspect that all should be aware, is that people you do not know do not ask you to give money as a sign of your giving nature for the promise of more money in the future without risk. If he really just wants to give money away, there are more than enough avenues for him to make this happen. The BS story associated with the "why" is stupid and illogical to the point of simply being so absurd as to sucker people in (which is why I called it a stupid little scam [SLS]).

Call me paranoid if you wish, but I have years of dealing with just about every type of scammer around, and this scheme has scam written all over it.

So RUN AWAY, don't feed this scam, resist the urge to give it life. Ignore the chearleaders, chances are they are in it as well (nothing personal P. Roberts).

Gringo

September 13th, 2006, 01:32 AM

I'd like to ask this question.. how long time is something considered to be "early bird" bait..? If Clayton and TBT stay in Biz for 6 mos.. is that early bird bait.. How about if a year he still is paying.. What of 2 years.. or 3..?There can be no arbitrary deadline. If any deadline is given, the scammer simply has to pump enough funds in to make it past that point, then proudly proclaim that he has proven it's not a fraud since the deadline has passed.

It all depends on how fast people join, how the payouts are structured, how much the scammer is prepared to pump into it, etc. We've seen how YMMSS held things together pretty well for over a year. Again it just depends on various factors.

Your question should not be how long before it's proven not to be a scam, but is the whole thing rational, does it make sense, are the details disclosed and can they be verified, is there a sound business plan, does the investment follow known mathmatical/financial principles i.e. high return = high risk. If the answer is no to the above, then time will indeed prove the scam. It may fall apart within a month, or it may take over a year.

I did my own level due dilligence and though no dilligence is perfect I chose to participate.Most victims of a scam say they thought they did their due dilligence in the beginning, but in retrospect realize that they really did practically nothing. Scammers use this to their advantage time after time. Here's a suggestion. Due dilligence is NOT:
1. Reading testimonials from a forum controlled by the scammer.
2. Reading the business concept from their website and not getting or verifying any of the details or facts behind it.
3. Accepting vague excuses for non-disclosure of pertinant details such as "proprietary", "will be disclosed later", "competition might use it", etc.
4. Accepting the recommendation of a friend or family member esp. if the business plan is vague, illogical, or non-existent.
5. Accepting payouts to others or yourself as "proof" that the plan is legitimate.

When people start to taste a little profit like you have, their defenses drop, their critical thinking shuts down, they bond and trust the scammer regardless of what else happens. Do some REAL due dilligence NOW before you get sucked in any further. Take your small profit now and DEMAND facts and full disclosure or just walk away.

Believer

September 13th, 2006, 11:54 AM

The biggest problem with this whole scheme (and why it looks to be a scam) is that it does not make any logical scense.

I do things in an un-conventional way. I run my transportation company and take loads that pay. I do things others don't do. I have connections with many business professionals all over the world. And when one deals with people with money - it looks like a scam - and doesn't make sense to people that have no connections at all.

Believer has a source of funds (so he says). Acces to funds, not source to.However, the source is not confirmable I said I'd have it confirmed to "investors", not those that want a small portion. , and the ability to continually generate high returns are also not confirmable Again, it is confirmable to "investors".. He refuses to divulge any information regarding the people involved Investors will be introduced directly and introduced by our attorney ... not me., nor any reason to believe that any of this actually exists. And the reason isn't understood by those that aren't approved, or don't apply, and those two types will NEVER be given a reason that it actually exists.

He promised to return a 50% return in two months (No, not promising, but acually return 50% within 10 days. (doubling in 120 days approx.) No, not 120 days, but 50% within 10 days, and the 70th day another 50%, so it's much quicker than 120 days.which is very similar to ponzi like schemes, No, ponzi schemes can't do that and give the FIRST return equivalent of 150% within 10 days,and definately an return rate which is not sustainable in any legitmate investment over a long time period. No one said it was an investment, it is funds set aside in a trust ear-marked to be given away. Just because it is broken down into percentages and related to a return type statement doesn't mean it's an investment.The fact that he says there is no risk is also a red flag, To whom? Negative thinkers who know absolutely nothing and have no imagination to reason things out on their own based upon on what is stated.as no investment is without risk, Maybe so, but as I said, this isn't an investment, and especially not one of with such a high rate of return. The rate is associated with an investment, but this plan is NOT an investment. You will never understand, and fall short where others have seen through.

He asked for a voided check (huge red flag) and even though he has ammeded this to a bank counter check, the reasoning behind this is not logical. Not logical to those that aren't capable of being locigal.Seriously, what is the point? Proof I'm not skimming off the top of TBTHe needs proof that someone is willing to give before they can recieve, however sending a voided check is not really showing a willingness to give,It shows enough proof of what I neede for me to prove proof of giving to the accounting department so I can send 50% of a number on a VOIDED piece of paper to the name and address on the envelope, so I can get 100% of that amount futhermore he states that he is looking to give to needy people, That 100% I get out of TBT goes to people in my hometown, I don't need to prove that to you.yet is focusing on what is typically a segment which is simply looking for a fast buck. The FASTER the better!

So what is the story? He is setting up a confidence scheme. The beginning, however novel or strange it might seem, is simply to set up the scheme to gain the trust of a group of victims so that in the future he can rip them off.

That needs to be proven to over 918 present members that trust me, my staff and our company.

I personally suggest not giving him any personal information (regardless of how minor it may seem) because there are so many red flags associated with this scheme that it screams out scam. The fact that it was associated initially with PIPS should be enough of a reason alone to run away.

The above comment isn't worthy of comment to those not within our group.

Now we see the first chearleader to try and give some "proof" that this is legit, however this is a catch-22 in the con game. Cheerleader you call Paul. You should have been in competion with him in being negative when I first met him. He would have beat you out by 100 to 1.They always seem legit intially, that is how they work, and why he is so persistant on trying to provide some proof that this is a legit scheme. I'm not trying to provide proof, I've never shown any proof to anyone here. If RESULTS is the proof you are talking about, then there will be plenty of proof.

The underlying aspect that all should be aware, is that people you do not know do not ask you to give money as a sign of your giving nature for the promise of more money in the future without risk. They can always use the money given first in a future NO RISK investment. No one needs to dig into any other pocket to pull out funds. Simply, as many can see, use our seed money to gain more. It's the best way to acquire RISK FREE funds. If he really just wants to give money away, there are more than enough avenues for him to make this happen. The avenue we are working on right now is the hyip arena.The BS story associated with the "why" is stupid and illogical to the point of simply being so absurd as to sucker people in (which is why I called it a stupid little scam [SLS]). And, with your attitude, way of thinking, it fits the thread.

Call me paranoid if you wish, but I have years of dealing with just about every type of scammer around, and this scheme has scam written all over it. Not all over it, just in the title you gave it.

So RUN AWAY, don't feed this scam, resist the urge to give it life. Ignore the chearleaders, chances are they are in it as well (nothing personal P. Roberts).

Run from a FREE OFFER of money .... what a dorkie way of thinking.

Show the reader of this thread, where the risk is in the offer! Specifically tell me and others where the risk lies. Forget my reasons or anything else, tell the readers how they will be at risk by requesting FREE MONEY.

Other than you have been involved in looking at scams all over the net, and probably ran one or two since you know so much about them, where is the risk in the offer in my signature ... Please explain to the victims of other scams that read this page?

I'd really like to know the answer so I can tell my friends and relatives ... they would like a good laugh!

concerned

September 13th, 2006, 12:05 PM

My scheme is solid! Your intent in posting is noted. But, you calling my plan a scam is in error!

Thank you. You just admited it was not on the up and up. Nobody calls something legitimate a scheme. So you admited it was not legit, and I think it is funny that you say that someone calling your SCHEME a SCAM is in error. NEWSFLASH. Those two words mean the SAME THING.

We'll see very soon about the venture and my scheme.

You called it a scheme again. GOOD JOB!!!

Then I'll be back and rub it in!

NO YOU WON'T. Trust me, we have heard this before by at least 50 people, and nobody has been back yet.

I've changed the signature below to have the name and address ONLY on the return envelope and not the check or the bank account number. So, I've stopped asking for a check pre-printed and issued by a bank. I do need what I need in order to authorize TBT to send out a check .... I need to know who sent the V O I D ed check and their address, so a return address on the envelope containing the voided check will suffice.

Let me get this straight, cause I think your 3rd grade grammer skills are not sufficient enough in this case. Look at the 2 sections I put in bold. The first says you no longer need the voided check. The second one says you NEED an envelope CONTAINING a VOIDED CHECK. Which do you need? You are talking in circles, which is something ALL scammers do around here.

A bank counter check with no name, no signature, no bank account number, and no information except the amount. I need to know something!

Of course you do. How else do you expect to rip people off?

concerned

September 13th, 2006, 12:08 PM

But on flip side, if Clayton hopes to deliver on promise of 150% return in 10 days.. how on earth can he send anyone funds without their address..?

How on earth can someone promise 150% in 10 days? If you believe that crap, then I hope you send a check, and get ripped off. When you do, do not come back here and ask for our help, cause you have been warned.

Arzel

September 13th, 2006, 01:03 PM

Run from a FREE OFFER of money .... what a dorkie way of thinking.

Show the reader of this thread, where the risk is in the offer! Specifically tell me and others where the risk lies. Forget my reasons or anything else, tell the readers how they will be at risk by requesting FREE MONEY.

Other than you have been involved in looking at scams all over the net, and probably ran one or two since you know so much about them, where is the risk in the offer in my signature ... Please explain to the victims of other scams that read this page? No, I have never ran a scam, participated in a scam, or taken anymoney through a scam. I became involved because I had friends and family bilked out of money by ponzi/pryamid scammers in the past. The risk in giving any information to you is that you should never give away private information to anyone on the internet unless you seek them out to do business with them through a secure website.

I'd really like to know the answer so I can tell my friends and relatives ... they would like a good laugh!

I understand you scam, and why you claim it is not an investment perse. But if you examine it, it is not believable.

Your claim:

You have an investment, or access to an investment by which the interest from said investment will be used to pay 150% back to people with a willingness to give.

On the surface this sounds believable, and even plausible, however the actual workings of such a "giveaway" would not lend to such a procedure.

From the point of view of the investor(s) this is a charitable donation, but to be actually used as a charitable donation, it would have to be done trhough a charitable organization. One is lead to believe that you are acting as an agent for the charitable donation, if this is the case please post your organization number such that it can be researched. There would be zero need to keep this private, and probably not legal either.

If it is not a chariatable donation, then the investor(s) is doing perhaps the dumbest thing one could ever imagine. For one, the investment interest which is being handed out would still have to be reported by the investor(s), which not only doesn't benefit the investor(s) but actually hurts them because now they have to pay taxes on money that was given away as a charitable donation.

Anther possibility is that this is some type of money laundering scheme.

No matter how you slice it, it stinks of scam.

Believer

September 13th, 2006, 04:15 PM

#239 1 Hour Ago
Arzel
Math Junkie
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 945

I understand your scam, and why you claim it is not an investment perse. But if you examine it, it is not believable.

Maybe not to some, but to others since 1998 - Yes, it is believable, and shortly will be back under one roof.

Your claim:

You have an investment, (no investment, the clients have the investments) or access to an investment (no again)by which the interest from said investment will be used to pay 150% back to people with a willingness to give. No again, the trust accepts portions of the proceeds that the clients NOTE CLIENTS MAKE, and those proceeds equate to a large sum of money that when it is passed out again EQUATES to 50% of a much much much much smaller amount, and appears to be something it isn't to people like you who find fault in everything they don't understand.

On the surface this sounds believable, (NOT TO YOU IT DOESN'T YOU JUST SAID SO ABOVE) and even plausible, however the actual workings of such a "giveaway" would not lend to such a procedure. Well, you are looking at the exception.

From the point of view of the investor(s) this is a charitable donation,Yes, they are allowing a percentage of their investment ... each in excess of $1.5M but to be actually used as a charitable donation, it would have to be done trhough a charitable organization. Giving money away does not have to be done through a charitable organization; I can give away money to anyone that I like, and no one can say I can't.

One is lead to believe that you are acting as an agent for the charitable donation, No they are NOT, unless they believe what you say which is in error.if this is the case please post your organization number such that it can be researched. There would be zero need to keep this private, and probably not legal either. We have a law firm that keeps us legal, and just because I'm not going to post confidential information, you say it's illegal.

If it is not a chariatable donation, then the investor(s) is doing perhaps the dumbest thing one could ever imagine. And what's that? Asking for some of the FREE MONEY that is available for him to receive because he is living on a fixed income and can't afford to buy medicine or pay his/her light bill. It's DUMB if he doesn't request it.
For one, the investment interest which is being handed out would still have to be reported by the investor(s), which not only doesn't benefit the investor(s) but actually hurts them because now they have to pay taxes on money that was given away as a charitable donation. Increasing one's net wealth in you view is DUMB! What planet do you come from?

Anther possibility is that this is some type of money laundering scheme. With a Federal Judge within our circle, you are saying we are doing something illegal? A real dorkie statement of accusing money laundering for sure!

No matter how you slice it, it stinks of scam. No, silly little scam ... note the word silly and little. Silly because it is funny to be even associated with a scam, and all scams are BIG. But, dorks see things different than those that need money for personal reasons that will help them in some way. That is what the whole plan was set up for ... to help others help themselves. Some need money just to go to work; salesmen need running money to buy gas, clothes, eating out all the time, lodging and travel just to get to a client that can purchase his product. It takes money to make money, and we are offering FREE MONEY so someone can help themselves make more money.

You fail to see that there are many people in need of help. The can go to charaties or government agencies for help, and some do not qualify for such help from those entities. So, our clients that have investments offshore are associated with other professionals we have a mutual aquaintence and have allowed a portion of thier GROSS PROFITS to be sent to The Believers Trust to be given away to those that are in the "grey" area and can not get the help they need to help them help themselves. We help in many of those aspects. You have seen title loan companies that help people with short term cash needs. My plan is to help in that respect with NO collateral.

I do not offer investments to the membership, I offer to REFER them direct to an entity that offers investments.

YOU KEEP GETTING THIS ALL WRONG AND TRYING TO ADD SOMETHING TO MY PLAN THAT SCAMS HAVE. I've pointed that out many times, but you insist on keep "chanting" like a heathen trying to be heard. It ain't working because I KEEP getting inquiries for the FREE FUNDS. If one of them is scammed, I'm sure you will see post at this thread; but, I have requested that no one post positive thoughts here.

You need to tighten up! Another 11 or 1200 request at $500 VOID checks, and I'll be out of money til February 07'

ONE MORE TIME:

1) We have clients with over $1.5M each in offshore investment opportunities.

2) A portion of those profits are sent to The Believers Trust to be given away. (It doesn't matter what reason the client is doing this, they just are!)

3) I equate a "Believers" status level to a percentage and explain it in the light of an investment - NOT AN ACTUAL INVESTMENT on the part of the membership. Do you understand this point? If not, read it about 1,000 time until you do! You are beginning to make yourself look like a stupid idiotic fool. Because anyone trying to twist the above points into something else is either a stupid person, idiot or fool, or in some cases all of the three combined into one.

AS FOR ME!

1) I have to abive by stipulations to access the funds in the trust.

2) The trust does not have investments earning 25% per month. The funds coming into it are parts of proceeds of earnings on other larger amounts.

3) I MUST give the trust earnings away to someone, anyone, preferably those who "give" to others. But, I can give them to anyone I so choose as long as I present the proper documentation to the accounting department so the clients can be advised as to where the funds were sent, for what purpose, and when.

4) I break the process down to a percentage - so everyone is treated fairly, and have decided to use 50% over 60 day term ... meaning one can not qualify again for 60 days for another 50%. If I didn't have some rule to prevent this, people would be coming back every other day to get 50%, so a term limit is used.

5) I explain it in the light of two things: first, gifting ... second, hyip. Although the plan is not either, it can be explained by using the two schemes as examples.

6) The funds arriving into TBT equate to approximately 1/2 of 1% of the clients investment proceeds. Although the funds arriving into TBT are rather large, I can FOR EXAMPLE: Make up a percentage to give away based upon some other factor such as a person's Belief in us. I did that, and call it,... "Believers status level". You give to me, I'll authorize TBT to send you 150% of that amount with a MAXIMUM limit of $500.00 By limiting one's "Believer" level, I have eliminated the fact that one could send more than he could afford.

7) I have placed safety factors in the plan to keep Non-Believers from cheating the system. [B]I do not have any faith in Non-Believers, because by nature they think in the realm of scams.

8) People on welfare or are disabled and do not have funds for the very basics, we give freely from the funds the membership sends to us.

9) The membership that sends funds to us are cut a check according to the the above items mentioned. It's not our funds we are sending out, it's TBT's funds that are ear-marked for that specific purpose.

10) Come February 2007, it is projected that TBT will be receiving $250K per month available to be used. I plan on helping people that are NOT being helped by other organizations, or government programs. There are many that are making just enough not to qualify for a program, and what they are making is below poverty levels. Should I not be able to find enough individuals that read these sites to give it to, then I will stand at Wal-Mart and pass out $100 bills until the next month rolls around.

11) Every red cent that TBT has ear-marked to be given away will be given to individuals, not some agency who is licensed or registered to give away funds, ... I will not give it to anyone except "individual" people I see stranded on the road with their hood up; individual people who look like they can't afford shoes because they are wearing flip-flops with a nice dress. I will seek out orphans, and widows by reading the news papers ... I'll find them somewhere if not through links like this.

*****************
One thing certain, this plan is not a scam. I'm not going to put the position I am in by being the signatory authority over a trust by pulling a scam of some sort. Anyone that thinks so is rather ignorant of the facts from the word "go".

Baby Pips is the name of a group that surfaced a client in late 2005. We finally got that client placed August 15, 2006. The first proceeds from that client will arrive to TBT in October. It will be a rather large sum as this particular client wishes to give away a rather large amount as a "tithe". I am expecting well over $70K from this client alone ... each and every month.

Now, that $70K may represent 10% of the actual profits generated from the investments. I can further break it down to $46K + 50% = $70K. It appears a return of 50% was earned, but in essence, a 50% amount was added which equated to 25% per month for 2 months. This in effect depleted the funds earmarked to be GIVEN AWAY.

In the above example, I received 2/3rds of the trust funds by accepting the GFDeposit from the membership (more than 83) and TBT REWARDED the members with their GFD back PLUS 50%.

You see, I can't accept GFD's that aren't back by at least 50% more than the GFD. That is one of the stipulations of the trust that I MUST follow and be very careful to adhere to.

If you can't understand the above, your comments are nothing to what I am doing and required to do as my duty in regards to the plan and The Believers Trust. You are only twisting something real into something that is a scam.

This plan will be around as long as we have clients within our circle of professionals allowing a portion of thier profits to be placed in The Believers Trust to be given away to ... "Believers". I simply do not know how else to describe those that wish to receive FREE MONEY.

Read this a couple of times and see if you can understand how the overall picture fits together. What would you do IF you were in my position. That is what I want to know ... give me suggestions ... just presume it is true as presented and give me suggestions because you needn't worry about it being true, it is!

Tell me how you would disburse the funds and explain it to individuals that are to receive it. I'm not going to give it to big organizations, I'm giving it to individuals ONLY!

Tell ME!

Arzel

September 13th, 2006, 04:50 PM

I have read your scheme several times, and if you would read my replies without interjection every other word perhaps you would see that I do understand how you are presenting it.

Now read this. It doesn't matter, and I don't believe your back story. It is not plausible for some mysterious benefactors to give money away in the manner you have presented. Donors of large amounts of money simply do not operate that way, if they were going to give away small amounts of money perhaps, but not when you are talking about investments in excess of $1 million dollars.

Futhermore, nothing you say is believable.

With a Federal Judge within our circle, you are saying we are doing something illegal? A real dorkie statement of accusing money laundering for sure!

Not believable, and what exactly do you consider a federal judge?

You are so full of BS that your posts come out brown on my screen. I don't even have to argue the merits of your scheme, because I don't believe anything you have said in the least, and you have done nothing to endure any type of trust.

Webwatch

September 13th, 2006, 04:56 PM

Hello Believer just a couple of quotes I'd like to coment on:

We have a law firm that keeps us legal, and just because I'm not going to post confidential information, you say it's illegal.

With a Federal Judge within our circle, you are saying we are doing something illegal? A real dorkie statement of accusing money laundering for sure!

I thought we had cleared this up, as you are unable to provide proof of these statements they are not really a valid argument for your program are they.

Simply stating this is privelidged or confidential information only Investors will be informed about is not very convincing.

Can you now name the Law firm and especially the federal judge or even his/her jurisdiction to back up your claims.

Gringo

September 13th, 2006, 05:36 PM

2) A portion of those profits are sent to The Believers Trust to be given away. (It doesn't matter what reason the client is doing this, they just are!)You've already given the reason as clearly stated on your website: We do have an ulterior motive for offering the above plan:
Since we wish to generate a large membership in the hyip arena to help us acquire large fund clients, we are willing to reward them for their efforts. We have found that individuals that are familiar with our program will refer others to us, and that surfaces clients that we would otherwise not have found.
WHY HAVE A MEMBERSHIP
We wish to create a base of individuals that can help seek out large fund clients.
Finding individuals with larger funds will help support this small program. As a member, you are receiving past earnings that have already been paid by our clients from the past.It boils down to this: Your undisclosed "private securities trading" fund is passing out cash to find new clients. A rather unusual method for finding new clients, but I'll going along with this for a moment.

This trading firm makes a commission from the trades they make for the investors. The more funds they manage, the more commissions they make, so finding more clients makes sense.

If a trading firm manages a fund that has the ability to beat the market with equal or less risk they would be able to attract clients easily based on verified performance.

Since they are using this rather unorthodox method of marketing, I suspect that their performance isn't that great. My question is how does one get access to the specifics of their performance? You've previously stated that the investor has to be qualified. What exactly is the criteria that is used to qualify?

Believer

September 13th, 2006, 06:36 PM

Grengo said:

Hello Grengo, you aren't Mexican by chance are you? Just wondering.

"It boils down to this: Your undisclosed "private securities trading" fund is passing out cash to find new clients."

No, no, large clients that have been with us since as early as 1992, and more in 1998 and others to the present allow a portion of their earnings to go into TBT. These clients have over time come together through my efforts and others to allow a portion of their profits to be given away to a membership base that can be helped financially and be asked to surface others that may have $1.5M or more.

A rather unusual method for finding new clients, but I'll going along with this for a moment. Well "G", the method has worked in the past, and we simply wish to open it up to new members within an arena plagued by scams. TSG, and I, wish to become known within the arena and have something real for them to believe in that has REAL AND TRUE BACKING. Only time and members from this arena that post their stories will be the final proof TSG is real.

This trading firm makes a commission from the trades they make for the investors. Yes, of course they do quite well.

The more funds they manage, the more commissions they make, so finding more clients makes sense. Yes, and the returns on the CLIENT'S INVESTMENTS may equate to 3% to 6% per month on a VERY LARGE amount of funds. But, remember, IF our group doesn't introduce the client, they are outside our scope of receiving any funds from that client.

If a trading firm manages a fund that has the ability to beat the market with equal or less risk they would be able to attract clients easily based on verified performance. Yes, but those clients they attract wouldn't be providing TBT with any of their proceeds. We want our OWN clients so we can get referral commissions, PLUS if we talk to the Client right, we may extract extra proceeds to be given away to a membership base to help find others with large funds so we can keep the GIVING AWAY OF FUNDS plan in existence. Does this make sense to you. I can't seem to get it accross to anyone else that posts here!!!

Since they are using this rather unorthodox method of marketing, I suspect that their performance isn't that great.

Taling about the trading entity, they aren't marketing this way. Don't get them confused with TSG's plan that I am overseeing.

Now, as far as we are concerned: Well, yes it takes time, remember we have clients that date back to 1992. Those client keep re-entering as new programs open and old ones expire. The more we can have introduced, the more we can build our reserve funds sent to TBT to GIVE AWAY.

My question is how does one get access to the specifics of their performance? Well, give a proof of funds for $1.5M. The trading entity will reveal this to the CLIENT, or become a member of TSG and meet face to face with someone that can help you become involved at the level you wish to participate. I'll help you!

You've previously stated that the investor has to be qualified. What exactly is the criteria that is used to qualify? He first needs to understand that, "Whoever owns the gold, does not rule". Some clients wish to dictate when the funds will be placed, when the proceeds will be placed, and other aspects that do not work within the realm of the program available. Some go for a FULL 12 months, some have a load factor of 4 months, meaning the trading entity uses the funds the 1st 4 months BEFORE the clients funds are working for the client ONLY. Some programs have a window of only 2 weeks or so, and the client didn't prove funds in time. The trading entity doesn't like to take their time proving ANY aspect that they do on a daily basis. If the client isn't quality and has ... let's say a "show me first" ATTITUDE, they are disqualified on the spot. 7 out of 10 fall in that category.

As for myself and The SAM Group, we can allow those that get to know us over time and many and many conversations to place small funds with us as they would a SCAM OR PONZI scheme, and deal directly with us at our office and get to know our attorney. Sure, there are people out there that would do this as you can look at PIPS and see some have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars that were apparently placed. We simply wish to help some acquire something real. I can show them the TBT bank account, withdrawals and deposits. It won't help give information about the investments in the background, but it proves deposits are coming in from someplace!!!!

Anyone that wants the proceeds of the trust participates as a member, those that wish to become a client, and be introduced to those that handle that aspect of the plan. My heart is at the level of helping small fund people increase their net worth in a small way.

I'm not here to prove anything or try to convience anyone to make an investment, my plan is to acquire a base of individuals who might at some point become convienced enough to refer real INVESTORS to us to be referred on. The member that introduced her to us is well compensated once the client is placed.

"G", If I can answer anyother questions, please ask them. I can only give the facts and aspects of the plan as it relates to my duty. I can not reveal other aspects or individuals past the membership level. I'll even all you ... "G" ... my private cell phone if you want it. You are the first EVER at this site that I can see a faint ray of positive attitude.

Best Wishes,

Believer

September 13th, 2006, 07:25 PM

I have read your scheme several times, and if you would read my replies without interjection every other word perhaps you would see that I do understand how you are presenting it.

Well if you understand it, stop criticizing it! Why would you want to read about it so many times, your decision has been made, are you trying to change your own mind? I advise you to remain negative and not participate.

Now read this. It doesn't matter, and I don't believe your back story. It is not plausible for some mysterious benefactors to give money away in the manner you have presented. Donors of large amounts of money simply do not operate that way, if they were going to give away small amounts of money perhaps, but not when you are talking about investments in excess of $1 million dollars.

It's OK if you are a non-believer, we have many contacts dating back to 1992, and those individuals have a very good rapport with us, and they do what they do because they want to. You aren't part of that circle, and it is "clickish" and you aren't qualifed to be a part nor understand.

Futhermore, nothing you say is believable.

Good, does this mean I won't be getting bashed by you anymore?

Not believable, and what exactly do you consider a federal judge?

Judge TIME will be the only judge you will be concerned with in regard to your relationship with our plan.

You are so full of BS that your posts come out brown on my screen. Well, what do you want me to do ... send you some "Northern" tissue?

I don't even have to argue the merits of your scheme well good, since you know nothing about it to begin with, because I don't believe anything you have said in the least so what am I supposed to do go to my room and cry?, and you have done nothing to endure any type of trust. If you are talking about trying to obtain YOUR trust, that's fine with me!

FACT: TBT has funds to give away.

FACT: I have signatory authority over the trust

FACT: ALL funds in TBT are ear-marked to be given away.

FACT: I will show and prove to the membership at a web site only members can view the bank statement of TBT ... deposits and withdrawals and balance.

FACT: Non-Believers need NOT apply.

FACT: THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH! Bank statements will tell the tale.

FACT: I'll be here til I have other duties to fulfill and do. When I appear to be gone, you'll know something is going on in the background that isn't any of your business.

FACT: I'll set up a webcam for you to see what I am doing while traveling in our 2006 motorhome. It might be interesting for you to watch and see how rich folks live. I'm not ashamed of being rich as I feel for those who have practically nothing and need help. I'm glad to help where I can with funds ear-marked for disbursements as well with my own excess funds.

FACT: The plan will be opened and those that wish to meet me someplace where we travel, or come to meet us will be glad they did. Isn't it strange that a so called scammer would be willing to meet you face to face. I have tried to get ponzi sites to correspond with me, and they refuse. Think about it!

Arzel

September 13th, 2006, 08:26 PM

FACT: TBT has funds to give away.

FACT: I have signatory authority over the trust

Fact, I have recieved scam emails from Nigerian Diplomats claiming the very same thing.

FACT: ALL funds in TBT are ear-marked to be given away.

Fact, I have recieved scam lottery emails from Lottery officials claiming the very same thing.

FACT: I will show and prove to the membership at a web site only members can view the bank statement of TBT ... deposits and withdrawals and balance.

Fact, Again sounds like the Nigerian 411 scam emails I have recieved.

FACT: Non-Believers need NOT apply.

FACT: THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH! Bank statements will tell the tale.

FACT: I'll be here til I have other duties to fulfill and do. When I appear to be gone, you'll know something is going on in the background that isn't any of your business.

FACT: I'll set up a webcam for you to see what I am doing while traveling in our 2006 motorhome. It might be interesting for you to watch and see how rich folks live. I'm not ashamed of being rich as I feel for those who have practically nothing and need help. I'm glad to help where I can with funds ear-marked for disbursements as well with my own excess funds.

Fact: Apparently you like to gloat about your supposed "Richness" to those that are not rich. In any case, I know how rich folks live.

FACT: The plan will be opened and those that wish to meet me someplace where we travel, or come to meet us will be glad they did. Isn't it strange that a so called scammer would be willing to meet you face to face. I have tried to get ponzi sites to correspond with me, and they refuse. Think about it!

Fact: The best scammers always meet face to face with their victims, and apparently you have not tried hard enough or are lying.

Your facts are worthless. And I see the history of your scam continues to age. At first there was no mention of 1998, and then suddenly you have been around since 1998? I don't think so, I would have heard about it by now. And now you are extending it back to 1992.

Do you actually think this stuff up, or just make it up on the fly?

Believer

September 13th, 2006, 09:08 PM

Your facts are worthless.

Well, facts help you in your song and dance.

And I see the history of your scam continues to age. You need to be kept appraised more from now on.

At first there was no mention of 1998, and then suddenly you have been around since 1998? Get involved and keep up with our history.

I don't think so, I would have heard about it by now. And why not, you said you have received scam mail all the time, doesn't ours reach you, or is it not a scam? You need to tighten up.

And now you are extending it back to 1992. Again, you need to get involoved as to which group you are talking ab out. TSG has been arouind since 1992, Other groups later on, Baby Pips got involved in 2001, they brought fourth a client in late 2005.

Do you actually think this stuff up, or just make it up on the fly? Well, I do think when I fly to Europe and the Bahamas, actually I let others do the thinking sometime. But, I don't know if they do their thinking on the fly as you say.

Get your history straight and our way of working with clients and come back and make more post ... comments from the informed make my day.

OH! Keep your day job! You will always need one. I can tell by how you think and those you deal with ... e-mails with scammers and such. You know what I'm talking about.

You couldn't tell a real program with both eyes, similar to finding your rear end with both hands. In your case you couldn't. You know comparing one thing to another which you are rather good at doing in the wrong way.

Can I use only words less than 5 letters to help you understand some of the things I say?

QUOTE FROM YOUR THREAD:

FACT: TBT has funds to give away. Yep! Sho-nuff!

FACT: I have signatory authority over the trust. No doubt!

Fact, I have recieved scam emails from Nigerian Diplomats claiming the very same thing. Did you scam him?

FACT: ALL funds in TBT are ear-marked to be given away. TRUE!

Fact, I have recieved scam lottery emails from Lottery officials claiming the very same thing. So, did you win!

FACT: I will show and prove to the membership at a web site only members can view the bank statement of TBT ... deposits and withdrawals and balance. Absolutely True ... you excluded!

Fact, Again sounds like the Nigerian 411 scam emails I have recieved. Sounds like???? Do they converse with you at a web site?

FACT: Non-Believers need NOT apply. Don't need um!

FACT: THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH! Bank statements will tell the tale. What "no comment"?

FACT: I'll be here til I have other duties to fulfill and do. When I appear to be gone, you'll know something is going on in the background that isn't any of your business.

FACT: I'll set up a webcam for you to see what I am doing while traveling in our 2006 motorhome. It might be interesting for you to watch and see how rich folks live. I'm not ashamed of being rich as I feel for those who have practically nothing and need help. I'm glad to help where I can with funds ear-marked for disbursements as well with my own excess funds.

Fact: Apparently you like to gloat about your supposed "Richness" to those that are not rich. In any case, I know how rich folks live.So, I do in the light of helping them, I like for people to approach me for help. I've even given my shoes to a man that was robbed outside the mall here in town. He hugged me and thanked me like we were queer lovers. No, I didn't let him kiss me on the lips!

FACT: The plan will be opened and those that wish to meet me someplace where we travel, or come to meet us will be glad they did. Isn't it strange that a so called scammer would be willing to meet you face to face. I have tried to get ponzi sites to correspond with me, and they refuse. Think about it! Well, I'm not hiding.

Fact: The best scammers always meet face to face with their victims, and apparently you have not tried hard enough or are lying. You mean like the IRS, they like to meet face to face. So, now you are comparing me with the TOP OF THE LINE SCAMMERS ... is that right?

BOTTOM LINE Arzel, your song and dance needs a new tune. I'm getting request and question through e-mails and some mention this site. You need to tighten up more. Really! It's just friendly advice. So, should these folks get defrauded by me I'm sure they will join you in a NEW song and dance. But that is yet to be seen ... now isn't it?

Arzel, tighten up some! we are approaching 140 members from the hyip arena. And, I am not going to mention any screen names here, but I have 8 directly from this web page that have posted. And, thank the Supreme Being that give us life that you aren't one of them. We need you posting negative post so we can increase the membership more.

WW, I'd like to meet you some day. It would be nice if you were a fraud investigator or someone in a related field.

Gringo, you have softened up too much.

Callmestupid, stay gone!

Concerned, remain that way!

As for me, the top Believer, I'm full of surprises, and information, and am happy as I could ever be. I've got the best program anyone could imitate; I say imitate because NO ONE can duplicate it! Maybe because they wouldn't want to. I have many people tickled pink in anticipation. Where there is no dream, there is no hope, and I've begun to give "hope" to many. If they don't get it ... you'll know very shortly, but if you don't hear anything except from me, you can rest assured those people's hope has materalized into reality.

Time is running out for me .... to produce or disappear!

Arzel

September 14th, 2006, 12:50 AM

Fact: The best scammers always meet face to face with their victims, and apparently you have not tried hard enough or are lying. You mean like the IRS, they like to meet face to face. So, now you are comparing me with the TOP OF THE LINE SCAMMERS ... is that right?

Do you even know the history of the Ponzi scam?....um apparently not.

And actually, no, I think you are a pretty mediocore scammer to say the least. But hey you still have time to reach for real scammer heights by emulating Kim Inman of YMMSS or one of the many other scams we have encountered.

Believer

September 14th, 2006, 02:26 PM

Do you even know the history of the Ponzi scam?....um apparently not.

Well, tighten up and learn it. Pick one out and do some research.

And actually, no, I think you are a pretty mediocore scammer What, are you losing your belief in your initial thought about me! I'm surprised.to say the least. But hey you still have time to reach for real scammer heights by emulating Kim Inman of YMMSS or one of the many other scams we have encountered. If I were you, I'd quit participating in scams and quit encountering them.

Well, you have never encountered anyone like me before, and it shows. You are getting confused in your post. You say I'm the top scammer, then you say I'm not ... get it right now, people are depending on you to provide the truth here.

And, I'm trying to help people to decide one way or the other. It's been proved to me that some don't agree with you. They will have to at a later date verify this fact.

I have to go eat now.

The BIG Believer ... Clayton

concerned

September 14th, 2006, 02:44 PM

If I were you, I'd quit participating in scams and quit encountering them.

Arzel doesn't participate in scams cause he can see right through transparent people like you.

[B]Well, you have never encountered anyone like me before, and it shows.

We have encountered many people just like you. It is scary how similar you are to other scammers we have dealt with.

And, I'm trying to help people to decide one way or the other.

One way or other on WHAT?

It's been proved to me that some don't agree with you.

The word you are looking for is PROVEN, not PROVED.

They will have to at a later date verify this fact.

What fact?

I have to go eat now.

Wait a minute. Are you another scammer we have dealt with before? Just a few minutes ago, you said this:

I've got to go, someone needs me for an hour or two.

Which is it? Do you have to eat, or does someone need you? And if you really need to go, why do you keep responding?

concerned

September 14th, 2006, 03:14 PM

Ima did the rambling, I told her not to do that anymore .. just be blunt and call an idiot ad idiot. So, she did, then I told her not MEEEE! Those that comment on WebWatch. She said, "if the shoe fits wear it". I told her I only wear shoes that fit ... what's your point? She looked at me like I was crazy!

Ima agreed about the name and address part. I need what I need in order to cover myself.

Hey, who is Ima that you are talking about?

Believer

September 14th, 2006, 03:14 PM

You NEVER know what has transpired the minute before you make a phone call to someone. The same here, I never know exactually how long it will take me to solve a problem with an employee.

Just so happened, that MONEY could solve the problem in this case, so I was gone only long enough to write a check. That saved me an hour or two as explained to me earlier which I thought something that did not fit the situation. You know, similar to how you think regarding this thread. That situation was totally different than I thought.

"I thought I was wrong once; but, I was mistaken". So, I wrote a check after finding out what was needed and the problem is now solved. I'm back and I don't have anything else to do except post at this forum.

I got a sandwich and am eating it now .... well, I Just finished it.

See, how a short period of time changes things ... even while you are typing.

The only problem I can't solve for some is STUPIDITY, money won't solve it, and I know there isn't a cure for it yet!

Your friend,
Clayton

Believer

September 14th, 2006, 03:39 PM

My fingers have a mind of their own. My left hand doesn't know what my right hand is doing, otherwise it wouldn't let it hit it with a hammer. I'll skip that story!

Did you miss the post that I said financial statements, including bank records would be posted at a page with a password for those that might need to know something about TBT or TSG. Now, read the post carefully and try to remember what is being said, otherwise you will look like you don't know what you are talking about. And, God Forbid if you can't keep some that read this thread from making a request for funds.

OK, then, people who have been paid can't prove to you because you have a brick wall in your mind, but members can converse freely and instantly on a board set up and shown to the left at our information site. If one is so negative to not believe anything, or thinks others think like them always believing the worse in others, then we don't want them as a member receiving FREE MONEY, because it would be wasted and someone else more deserving could use it.

Now, you say "almost every single LEGIT BUSINESS ...." what do you mean by "almost"? Can you give me an example of an "almost" legal business?

Since you have not absorbed the overall concept of the plan, I consider it a waste of space and bandwith to reply further to you.

I do not need to prove to anyone here anything. I have over 142 members that joined with us thus far ... 8 being derived from this site. That equates to .... took me a minute ot two to figure it out ... $12,250.00 due to be sent out before November 10th.

Now, I'll tell you this whether you look at it as proof or not, If I miss even one $50 payment it will be posted at some thread, and will be in our message board which I can not control the post or thoughts of the members.

Again, there is no cure for STUPID! Someone not taking advantage of receiving over $1,250 of FREE MONEY over a 10 month period would fall in that category.

If you can "see through me" what am I holding behind my back?

Still your friend,
Clayton

Arzel

September 14th, 2006, 04:13 PM

If I were you, I'd quit participating in scams and quit encountering them.

Well, you have never encountered anyone like me before, and it shows. You are getting confused in your post. You say I'm the top scammer, then you say I'm not ... get it right now, people are depending on you to provide the truth here.

And, I'm trying to help people to decide one way or the other. It's been proved to me that some don't agree with you. They will have to at a later date verify this fact.

I have to go eat now.

The BIG Believer ... Clayton

I thought I made it clear that I did not participate in scams. I also did not say you were a top scammer, I said you are a mediocore scammer, but you have time to be a big scammer. You said that you are a top scammer, but I don't believe you.

I see you like to throw out Stephen King quotes into your posts, I guess you are not even original in prose.

Believer

September 14th, 2006, 04:22 PM

Who is Steven King? I have copyright material. I'll sue!

I have to go watch "Milo and Otis" now (for the 1000 time). I've learned the "hokie pokie" earlier this afternoon.

Grandpa Clayton - Life is fun!

Webwatch

September 15th, 2006, 10:48 AM

Believer, Its seems I may have missed one of your earlier posts discussing facts about your scheme.
FACT: TBT has funds to give away.
We only have your word for this so it doesn't become fact unless you can prove it.
FACT: I have signatory authority over the trust
Again we only have your word for it so fact is incorrect-Howabout 'Statement'as a better description as no facts have yet been presented.
FACT: ALL funds in TBT are ear-marked to be given away.
Again not a fact just another one of your unverifiable Statements.
FACT: I will show and prove to the membership at a web site only members can view the bank statement of TBT ... deposits and withdrawals and balance.
At last possibly we have a fact as you could show bank statements to members of course the wonder of computers means these can forged or just plain fakes. Anyone that joins your program will be so gullable that a blank piece of paper would probably convince them.
FACT: Non-Believers need NOT apply.
Almost-As a fact it should say 'Non-Belivers & anyone who has the basic understanding of due dilligence WILL not apply'.
FACT: THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH! Bank statements will tell the tale. If you showed verifiable Bank Statements and TBT was a real entity then this could be a fact.
FACT: I'll be here til I have other duties to fulfill and do. When I appear to be gone, you'll know something is going on in the background that isn't any of your business.What are you talking about-I dont care what you do in the background and your presence here will remain untill you realise you aren't convincing anyone (Apart from Paul;) ) and you will dissapear and never return like all the other attempted Con artists who tried to punch above their weight.
FACT: I'll set up a webcam for you to see what I am doing while traveling in our 2006 motorhome. It might be interesting for you to watch and see how rich folks live. I'm not ashamed of being rich as I feel for those who have practically nothing and need help. I'm glad to help where I can with funds ear-marked for disbursements as well with my own excess funds. Now your just being silly.
FACT: The plan will be opened and those that wish to meet me someplace where we travel, or come to meet us will be glad they did. Isn't it strange that a so called scammer would be willing to meet you face to face. I have tried to get ponzi sites to correspond with me, and they refuse. Think about it!
Meet you someplace where you travel :confused: Tried to get Ponzi sites to converse with you-is that to get advice on how to pull off your scheme.

My Facts as I see them:

1. You have trolled a number of HYIP forums looking for new recruits and failed even resorting to Multiple ID's to try and look convincing and still failed.

2. You present your scheme in such a ridiculous way that any credibilty you had has long since departed, and the use of silly scenarios and strange childish analogies makes not only the scheme but you yourself look ridiculous.

3. Hijacking other threads discussing similar style scams, to promote your own just adds to the totally unbelieveable nature of your scheme.

4. Using religious passages to suit your own scam is an old trick that some will find sickening (well me anyway) and provides another huge pointer as to why your proposed program is a scam.

5. You yourself admitted to coming here as in instigator to discuss your scheme yet when you read something that you disagree with you try a weak attempt at ridicule even to the point of misstyping other posters screen names to try and wind them up.

Believer

September 15th, 2006, 02:44 PM

Believer, Its seems I may have missed one of your earlier posts discussing facts about your scheme. Well tighten up and do your duty. We can't have someone with lax motivation around here, expecilly if they are one of the top cheerleaders for the opposing team.

Quote:
FACT: TBT has funds to give away.

We only have your word for this so it doesn't become fact unless you can prove it. And we only have your disagreement it isn't a fact.

Quote:
FACT: I have signatory authority over the trust

Again we only have your word for it so fact is incorrect-Howabout 'Statement'as a better description as no facts have yet been presented. Oh yes the facts have been proven with documentation signed at the attorney's office, just because you haven't seen the FACT doesn't make it not factual.

Quote:
FACT: ALL funds in TBT are ear-marked to be given away.

Again not a fact just another one of your unverifiable Statements. Again, it is factual. Just because you haven't seen the "facts" doesn't make it factual. You could have seen it and made a statement you did, and still it would fit within the realm of not being a fact - we can't trust what you are saying either ... now can we just because you say it one way or another.

Quote:
FACT: I will show and prove to the membership at a web site only members can view the bank statement of TBT ... deposits and withdrawals and balance.

At last possibly we have a fact as you could show bank statements to members of course the wonder of computers means these can forged or just plain fakes. Anyone that joins your program will be so gullable that a blank piece of paper would probably convince them.

See, even facts wouldn't hold water, so why present them to you or anyone else? Seeing isn't "believing" now is it. So, I will ONLY show proof as stated. Take it or leave it.

Quote:
FACT: Non-Believers need NOT apply.

Almost-As a fact it should say 'Non-Belivers & anyone who has the basic understanding of due dilligence WILL not apply'.

OK! Whatever you wish. but ONLY "Believers" and those with "hope" of things not yet seen need apply". What is ... is! And, will be revealed to those who first "BELIEVE". Then afterwards those who believe in nothing.

Quote:
FACT: THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH! Bank statements will tell the tale.

If you showed verifiable Bank Statements and TBT was a real entity then this could be a fact. But again, with the computer age, it wouldn't mean anything. So, first the "Believers" will be paid, if non-believers see the FACT later was true, so be it!

Quote:
FACT: I'll be here til I have other duties to fulfill and do. When I appear to be gone, you'll know something is going on in the background that isn't any of your business.

What are you talking about-I dont care what you do in the background and your presence here will remain untill you realise you aren't convincing anyone (Apart from Paul ) and you will dissapear and never return like all the other attempted Con artists who tried to punch above their weight.

Forget it WW. Just forget it!

Quote:
FACT: I'll set up a webcam for you to see what I am doing while traveling in our 2006 motorhome. It might be interesting for you to watch and see how rich folks live. I'm not ashamed of being rich as I feel for those who have practically nothing and need help. I'm glad to help where I can with funds ear-marked for disbursements as well with my own excess funds.

Now your just being silly. No, not silly, letting the "Believers" have a peek into my personal life .... You know like you do when you view hidden cams!

Quote:
FACT: The plan will be opened and those that wish to meet me someplace where we travel, or come to meet us will be glad they did. Isn't it strange that a so called scammer would be willing to meet you face to face. I have tried to get ponzi sites to correspond with me, and they refuse. Think about it!

Meet you someplace where you travel Tried to get Ponzi sites to converse with you-is that to get advice on how to pull off your scheme.

The topic was PROOF. I have no need to get advice on scams. What I have is simply factual whether anyone believes it or not. You can watch me present checks to people across the nation as I travel and have fun.

My Facts as I see them:

1. You have trolled a number of HYIP forums looking for new recruits and failed even resorting to Multiple ID's to try and look convincing and still failed.

As you said, "as I see them", which you don't see. That's a fact.

2. You present your scheme in such a ridiculous way that any credibilty you had has long since departed, and the use of silly scenarios and strange childish analogies makes not only the scheme but you yourself look ridiculous.

Well, real situations look extremely different that ponzi schemes which you are comparing me to. How can you compare what is real with what isn't real?

Judge Time will make this clear to you. And, "Believers" of which there are over 140 right now from the hyip arena will (or may) post at some point in time. I can't blame them if they don't, who wants to be ridiculed for finding something that pays in advance of any deposits being made?

3. Hijacking other threads discussing similar style scams, to promote your own just adds to the totally unbelieveable nature of your scheme.

NO, they tried to imitate us from long ago, and failed to duplicate us. We are the original mold that never scammed anyone.

4. Using religious passages to suit your own scam is an old trick that some will find sickening (well me anyway) and provides another huge pointer as to why your proposed program is a scam.

That is yet to been seen, now isn't it.

5. You yourself admitted to coming here as in instigator to discuss your scheme yet when you read something that you disagree with you try a weak attempt at ridicule even to the point of misstyping other posters screen names to try and wind them up.

It wasn't a mistype, they mispelled it to begin with, I only corrected it.

UPDATE: Everything is on schedule. The proof is in the payschedule that will shortly be completed. Cash the check then "Believe" more. (Use our funds ... not yours to re-enter AFTER your 60 day term is up!)

Someone give me a NAME to use as the name of our new web site.

Here are some of the choices:

Silly Little Scam = Top choice thus far.

Ponzi's R US = Second choice

Enter your choice or another suggestion. I'll pay the winner $1K. And, you know I won't pick one from the winners choices unless it REALLY suits me. So, try anyway.

Believer

September 15th, 2006, 02:44 PM

Believer, Its seems I may have missed one of your earlier posts discussing facts about your scheme. Well tighten up and do your duty. We can't have someone with lax motivation around here, expecilly if they are one of the top cheerleaders for the opposing team.

Quote:
FACT: TBT has funds to give away.

We only have your word for this so it doesn't become fact unless you can prove it. And we only have your disagreement that it isn't a fact. So, does that make it NOT fact! Can you prove it isn't a fact? I can prove it is FACT. I just haven't proven it to you.

Quote:
FACT: I have signatory authority over the trust

Again we only have your word for it so fact is incorrect-Howabout 'Statement'as a better description as no facts have yet been presented.

Oh yes the facts have been proven with documentation signed at the attorney's office, just because you haven't seen the FACT doesn't make it not factual.

Quote:
FACT: ALL funds in TBT are ear-marked to be given away.

Again not a fact just another one of your unverifiable Statements.

Again, it is factual. Just because you haven't seen the "facts" doesn't make it not factual. You could have seen it and made a statement you did see it, and still it would fit within the realm of not being a fact - we can't trust what you are saying either ... now can we? Just because you say it one way or another. I've see it and signed it, so I say it is fact. Should you see it and say it is a fact won't make it true, and neither will you saying it isn't a fact make it NOT a fact. So by YOU saying it isn't fact doesn't make it not factual. Those that know are the ones that can witness ... I am witness to the fact. I don't care who "believes" it. Only "Believers" will believe simply by taking my word!

Quote:
FACT: I will show and prove to the membership at a web site only members can view the bank statement of TBT ... deposits and withdrawals and balance.

At last possibly we have a fact as you could show bank statements to members of course the wonder of computers means these can forged or just plain fakes. Anyone that joins your program will be so gullable that a blank piece of paper would probably convince them.

See, even facts wouldn't hold water in your way of thinking, so why present them to you or anyone else? Seeing isn't "believing" now is it. So, I will ONLY show proof as stated. Take it or leave it. The computer age is another tool of the scammers. Now, I never thought about this, my mind doesn't run in that realm. I'm am only as good as my word. Prove I lied, then I'll have been proven a scammer. Until then, let those who have been scammed step forward. Those that I have been promised funds may step forward if they have not received what I said at this forum they would.

If you can't believe me for telling the TRUTH, then why believe those that don't know one way or the other by just making a statement in a negative way about my proposed plan of action?

Quote:
FACT: Non-Believers need NOT apply.

Almost-As a fact it should say 'Non-Belivers & anyone who has the basic understanding of due dilligence WILL not apply'.

OK! Whatever you wish. but ONLY "Believers" and those with "hope" of things not yet seen need apply". What is ... is, and my plan is real and the facts I have stated are TRUE! And, will be revealed to those who first "BELIEVE". Then afterwards those who believe in nothing.

Quote:
FACT: THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH! Bank statements will tell the tale.

If you showed verifiable Bank Statements and TBT was a real entity then this could be a fact.

But again, with the computer age, it wouldn't mean anything to negative thinkers. So, first the "Believers" will be paid due to their "faith" only, if non-believers see the FACTS later are held to be true, so be it! They will come up with another excuse to remain a "Non-Believer".

Quote:
FACT: I'll be here til I have other duties to fulfill and do. When I appear to be gone, you'll know something is going on in the background that isn't any of your business.

What are you talking about-I dont care what you do in the background and your presence here will remain untill you realise you aren't convincing anyone (Apart from Paul ) and you will dissapear and never return like all the other attempted Con artists who tried to punch above their weight.

Forget it WW. Just forget it! It has something to do with FACTS and PROMISES that I MUST fulfill. Any of that doesn't concern you now or in the future.

Quote:
FACT: I'll set up a webcam for you to see what I am doing while traveling in our 2006 motorhome. It might be interesting for you to watch and see how rich folks live. I'm not ashamed of being rich as I feel for those who have practically nothing and need help. I'm glad to help where I can with funds ear-marked for disbursements as well with my own excess funds. Now your just being silly.

No, not silly, letting the "Believers" have a peek into my personal life .... You know like you do when you view hidden cams in bedrooms!

Quote:
FACT: The plan will be opened and those that wish to meet me someplace where we travel, or come to meet us will be glad they did. Isn't it strange that a so called scammer would be willing to meet you face to face. I have tried to get ponzi sites to correspond with me, and they refuse. Think about it!

WW says, Meet you someplace where you travel Tried to get Ponzi sites to converse with you-is that to get advice on how to pull off your scheme.

The topic was PROOF. I have no need to get advice on scams, those type schemes are only trying to copy what I am doing and CAN'T. What I have is simply factual whether anyone HERE believes it or not. You can watch me present checks to people across the nation as I travel and have fun, by watching the webcam YOU can see it first hand.

WW says, "My Facts as I see them":

1. You have trolled a number of HYIP forums looking for new recruits and failed even resorting to Multiple ID's to try and look convincing and still failed.

As you said, "as I see them", which you don't see. That's a fact.

2. You present your scheme in such a ridiculous way that any credibilty you had has long since departed, and the use of silly scenarios and strange childish analogies makes not only the scheme but you yourself look ridiculous.

Well, real situations look extremely different than ponzi schemes which you are comparing me to. How can you compare what is real with what isn't real? You only know about Non-stuff!

Judge Time will make this clear to you. And, "Believers" of which there are over 140 right now from the hyip arena will (or may) post at some point in time. I can't blame them if they don't, who wants to be ridiculed for finding something that pays in advance of any deposits being made? That's right, I'll make it a NO RISK plan for those who wish for me to.

3. Hijacking other threads discussing similar style scams, to promote your own just adds to the totally unbelieveable nature of your scheme.

NO, they tried to imitate us from long ago, and failed to duplicate us. We are the original mold that never scammed anyone. Those that popped up in 1994 on were only duplicating what we set up a couple of years before the internet came along, and they STILL CAN'T duplicate us.

4. Using religious passages to suit your own scam is an old trick that some will find sickening (well me anyway) and provides another huge pointer as to why your proposed program is a scam.

That is yet to been seen, now isn't it? I simply used Biblical Principals which are TRUTH. I BELIEVE in the Word of God, and apply it to my personal life as well as my business life. That's a FACT that you can see and yet still misunderstands.

5. You yourself admitted to coming here as in instigator to discuss your scheme yet when you read something that you disagree with you try a weak attempt at ridicule even to the point of misstyping other posters screen names to try and wind them up.

It wasn't a mistype, they mispelled their screen name to begin with, I only corrected it!

UPDATE: Everything is on schedule. The proof is in the pay schedule that will shortly be completed. Cash the check then "Believe" more. (Use our funds ... not yours to re-enter AFTER your 60 day term is up!)

Everyone can reach me, so keep the faith, and watch your mail.

Someone give me a NAME to use as the name of our new web site.

Here are some of the choices:

Silly Little Scam = Top choice thus far.

Ponzi's R US = Second choice

Enter your choice or another suggestion. I'll pay the winner $1K. And, you know I won't pick one from the winners choices unless it REALLY suits me. So, try anyway.

Webwatch

September 15th, 2006, 03:32 PM

Hello Believer,
I'm quite flattered that it took you 2 attempts to comment on my above post-it must have touched a nerve or 2.

Remember what I said:
2. You present your scheme in such a ridiculous way that any credibilty you had has long since departed, and the use of silly scenarios and strange childish analogies makes not only the scheme but you yourself look ridiculous.

and yet you still posted this:
Someone give me a NAME to use as the name of our new web site.

Here are some of the choices:

Silly Little Scam = Top choice thus far.

Ponzi's R US = Second choice

Enter your choice or another suggestion. I'll pay the winner $1K. And, you know I won't pick one from the winners choices unless it REALLY suits me. So, try anyway.
Proves my point really doesn't it.

Believer

September 15th, 2006, 07:04 PM

WW, I was distracted and had to correct the mistyped words.

You haven't touched a nerve. People who have no proof of what they say aren't fooling anyone. I can prove to my membership and have for many years.

This isn't something new, I've worked the plan for years; and, am now trying to present it to the hyip arena where fraud prevails.

Our group of people are successful. Some moreso than others.

No one has been scammed under the new proposed plan because it hasn't been launched and besides I will be sending out funds to over 140 people first. If they choose to use our monies to scam us or test our plan to see if it is a scam, they are very welcome to do that.

You and others still think that a NEGATIVE comment or statement overrides TRUTH, and Biblical Principals that have been applied to our program and offerings since 1992. We aren't in jail, being prosecuted, or under investigation for commiting fraud.

Any funds we receive are returned within 10 days along with a percentage representing FUTURE earnings pre-paid.

You know, there has to be a VICTIM to have a scam. I'm asking VICTIMS to step forward and join your team!

I'm even setting myself up to generate VICTIMS that don't get what I promise. And, with no up-front funds from them. I'm not baiting anyone; they can all take the money and go away happy. If they need more, I'll send them more with no up-front funds.

If you are so content that I am out to scam someone, why not take advantage of my offer? Well, let me guess, you would think I would pay you just because the offer stated in this paragraph was made. There, I'm thinking negative now! Are you satisfied.

As far as the opinions of others about me, I'm not that way. I am what I am, and people can see me for what I am.

WHERE ARE THE VICTIMS?

VICTIMS STEP FORWARD!

There aren't any! Will there be any in the future? Will they step forward at first sign?

You said it WW, Judge TIME will be the ultimate deciding factor.

I hate to wish my life away, but I certainly wish February 2007 was closer than it is. The plan will have roots deep and many people that don't even know about us now will be being helped right here in Philadelphia, MS.

I'll still be close to my school mates, one will be running for Governor of MS soon. Others are prominent upstanding individuals in their fields. I don't have to be someone like that, I only need to know one or two.

Nothing I do is done without approval from someone in a high position to give advice. Surely you don't think I seek advice from SCAM FORUMS! This is where VICTIMS reside and lie in wait of exposing a scam, and some jump too quick because of past decisions they have made that didn't work out.

I'm looking to help VICTIMS recover.

We have a total of over 918 members, names, addresses, phone numbers and background on over 70%. All of those members have access to the information page and read these links. If one of them is scammed, we have a note posted for them to make a post at one of the links, Matrix Watch included. These are people receiving payments from us now.

We have several people in our office that use the computer and have different screen names using the same internet service as I do. I do not use many screen names around the web.

Starting November, I will be traveling extensively until February 07'. I'll be posting where I am, and as in the past, many members chase me down when I get close to where they live. I like that!

It's untrue that I am looking for people to scam. I have almost 1000 that I could scam right now; those that believe in me and would do what I ask them to at a moment's notice. All of them are members associated with TSG in some sense. Even they would go out and ask others to do as I ask if I had something I wanted them to place $50 into. that would raise $75K overnight.

It took me too long to get to this point and I'm not about to do something to cause the membership base to disappear because of an action I took.

Just because any of you haven't ever been involved in something real and with real investment backing from real professionals, I can't help that. Our group is about to pull all the smaller group back under one entity starting in November and completing it by January 2007. Then we will be a powerful group made up of members in all parts of the world, and with different backgrounds and many professionals in their own fields of endeavor.

I'm proud of the membership. Some aren't active members, and some are. At any rate, all derive a benefit from the actions of just a few. Those that actively take a part are REWARDED to a greater extent, but ALL are rewarded to some extent as that is our program's objective and mission.

The SAM Group, Company is my company, and it pays the membership out of funds ear-marked for that purpose. It's my duty to see that clients are placed that will generate commissions to be passed out to the membership base.

I can assure you that every member is receiving more that what any of you are making in a ponzi scheme. You call my plan a ponzi scheme, well, it's better than the one you are participating in and pays more, and you don't have to place funds with us to receive earnings or commissions, or referral fees or anything else that you wish to call it.

We are real, we will give money away, and we will do it all legally. We are what we are, you can call us what you want, but the name of the plan does not make it illegal.

Should you compare us to a GIFTING SCHEME, then in our way of working the plan, every members stands between TBT. There are no recruiting of new funds, because TBT stands where a new member would have to stand.

EXAMPLE: GIVER - tbt - RECEIVER - tbt - GIVER - TBT - RECEIVER - TBT.

Do you see, neither the giver or the receiver needs to sponsor, recruit or surface a new person to give or receive money. At every empty slot, TBT stands in and either gives the funds or receives the funds. And, all the while TBT is taking in funds from INVESTMENTS that have been in place (some as long as far back as 1998). Every client that is satisfied, is being satisfied over and over and over again. We have only lost 2 clients in our history that had funds placed at least once - One died, and his beneficiaries were unqualified to enter in his stead; the other one has acquired the limit of funds the trading entity will allow for one person to make. If I mentioned his name, you would recognize it.

Have to go ... wife has a "honey do" list. (I'll be back shortly if MONEY will get me out of the duties).

Believer

September 15th, 2006, 07:27 PM

ycchen

September 15th, 2006, 08:23 PM

Why are people still contacting me if they believe you more than me.

I don't see what point you said my comment proved. Those that read it understood the meaning was positive humor! Not ALL who read this thread thimk negative.

I'm sure more people do not contact me that could than do! The percentage of those that do is probably less than 1% out of all who read and see the same thing. I admit this thread has a negative impact, but 1% is a rather large number of people that have contacted as I see it. I expected less, and the numbers may be less, but nevertheless, I'll gotten over 140 since July that have inquired of me in one way or another. They are yet to post a negative comment here for all to see, and have every opportunity to do so now, and in the future. Wow 140 people :applause:

Did you type an extra zero? 14 sounds more convincing. lol

Again, another lousy gimmick with no proof. Why don't you just write:

FACT: 140 people has contacted me since July. Response to critic: If you have not seen it, how do you know it is not a fact.

If your fact is so real, why don't you just lay it out under the sun? You have nothing to lose, right? In addition, you might just get yourself another 5 donors!

Believer

September 15th, 2006, 09:17 PM

Maybe Ycchen ... but I'm not out to do anyone harm.

The donors as you call them cost TBT alot of money. I need donors to access TBT's funds myself and cost TBT twice as much money than the donor. I'm not pulling a scam against anyone here, I need people to help me unlock the funds from TBT. And, hopefully it will be a donor that need a break in life or extra funds to help him/her get over a rough spot in their life. Of course, I can't get the point across to anyone. And, I don't see how a ponzi scam can be associated or compared to what I am doing.

A ponzi uses the donors funds to pay other donors. I take the donors funds and use them for my purposes. TBT sends the donor their monies.

Ponzi's do not have real backing except funds received as an investment. We do not take investments from the members. I take their money and use it to help the needy in our hometown. Then authorize TBT to send the member 150% of what he/she gives to me, and do it within 10 days. I limit the member from sending anymore funds to me for 60 days.

Ponzi's accept money BEFORE they have a reserve. I only accept funds when TBT has in excess of 150% of what I accept. I know the funds are available to send the member 150% from TBT BEFORE I will accept any funds.

Now, if you wish, I'll drop my quotes here to 14, what you believe doesn't matter, but you admit 14 is an acceptable number, then I'll use 14. But in actuality, I believe that 8 is the number that were derived from this form.

What I have is a GOLD MINE, and I need prospectors to help access the GOLD. And, every $1 that we pull from it, next month it will be there again, and the month after and etc.

The donor will be compensated very well, if they aren't, you can expect them to post here or at other links you can find at our information page. I'm sure they will when they think they have been scammed. Until then ONLY folks with a negative wish will post.

I'm not going to prove or lay anything out in the sun for anyone. The proof will surface to the top in the pudding, because that is where it is.

Time is getting short for me. Look at the number of days we have left posted at the site for all to see. Look at the views since August.

OK, I'll lower the number to 4. That many should post here within 60 days or so with positive or negative post. That will be my estimate. Probably less than 1% will make any comments at all. They will be too happy they have finally found something they can believe in and has real backing.

ALL VICTIMS OF CLAYTON'S SCAM (SO IT'S CALLED) STEP FORWARD. Explain how you were scammed, when and show proof of transfer of funds. Let's settle this before November.

After november, we may, and I said may, raise the REWARD to 35% per month. That up from 50% REWARD over 60 days to 70% over 60 days.

I control the REWARD by negotiating with the clients that authorize funds to be sent to TBT. ALL funds in TBT MUST be given away, and the less members we have, the more that can be given away on a two month basis to those who are members. I prefer to have more members, but when the member looks at in the light that ycchen looks at it, it is better NOT to have a large base of membership.

I can also lower the REWARD if the membership grows faster than the funds in TBT. I will not do that as long as TBT holds steady with the same increase each month.

So, if you understand this, 25% per month or 35% or 200% per month to a member isn't unrealistic. The less members, the higher the REWARD becaus ALL THE FUNDS IN TBT MUST BE PASSED OUT.

I have simply devised a way to access 2/3rds for myself and my group. 1/3rd is then sent to the membership. I am getting the lion's share, and making it known up front. The lion's share goes to the needy in MY HOMETOWN where I live and wish to help the needy.

If it takes strangers to help me get done what I need done, then that's OK. I'll help anyone anywhere they may live, but I will not allow them to receive more than a fair share for DOING NOTHING that equates to NO RISK for them.

If they think it is RISK, then spend to a ponzi scheme like they did with PIPS.

If they have RISK funds and want to spend $1 to test it, receive $1.50 and keep doing that every 60 days and start using TBT's funds to build it up, then do that as well. After the first $1 or the $50 for making a comment, they have NO RISK. And, I dare you to tell me how that equates to RISK!

I have something no other person has, and I am willing to share the proceeds with strangers so I can help people where I live. I'm not sure anyone has ever had what I have and was willing to every give a portion away to others. I've seen people with multi millions give some away, but to give ALL, that's hard to believe.

I'm giving ALL of the funds away. I have my own investments and income, and my heart's desire is to help those right here where I live. If it takes a membership base throughout the world to accomplish that, then that is what I will seek.

We are looking at opening an office soon. The building will be on a main street, and anyone can walk in with NOTHING and walk out with funds that they do NOT EVER HAVE TO PAY BACK.

I can see that the loan company next door may be upset, and again may love us. We will take away some of their customers, and help others to make their payments to them. They will just have to take the bad with the good.

The clock is ticking for me.

I know the end of the story!

Arzel

September 15th, 2006, 09:32 PM

A ponzi uses the donors funds to pay other donors. I take the donors funds and use them for my purposes. TBT sends the donor their monies.

Ponzi's do not have real backing except funds received as an investment. We do not take investments from the members. I take their money and use it to help the needy in our hometown. Then authorize TBT to send the member 150% of what he/she gives to me, and do it within 10 days. I limit the member from sending anymore funds to me for 60 days.

Ponzi's accept money BEFORE they have a reserve. I only accept funds when TBT has in excess of 150% of what I accept. I know the funds are available to send the member 150% from TBT BEFORE I will accept any funds.

You understanding of a Ponzi is simply incorrect, but not unlike that of other scammers. A really good Ponzi would use initial seed money from the scammer, only a novice would start up a Ponzi without any initial funds. There is a critical growth stage of the Ponzi scam, where by they need to install confidence in the scam to there victims (which is exactly what you are doing.)

In your defense of what a Ponzi is not, you make many of the same mistakes of other scammers in that your logic is completely off base. What you have to understand is that there is no specific order or pattern for which a Ponzi has to follow to be a Ponzi. The primary aspect is that eventually, the vast majority of payments are made from late investor to early investor.

Thanks again for showing your true intentions during this confidence building stage. If your focus wasn't the HYIP group it might not be so obvious.

Believer

September 15th, 2006, 10:19 PM

You understanding of a Ponzi is simply incorrect, but not unlike that of other scammers. You mean to say ponzi admins don't know what they are doing, they start one everyother week.

A really good Ponzi would use initial seed money from the scammer, only a novice would start up a Ponzi without any initial funds. So, where do you think my initial funds are being derived from? It's NOT FROM the scammed.

There is a critical growth stage of the Ponzi scam, where by they need to install confidence in the scam to there victims (which is exactly what you are doing.) I don't need to instill any confidence in anyone because I don't intend to take any funds from anyone. Simply give me PROOF of an NON-NEGOTIABLE INSTRUMENT that I can give to the accounting department, and you will get 50% of that amount. Don't you pay attention to the basics?

In your defense of what a Ponzi is not, Why do I need a defense?you make many of the same mistakes of other scammers in that your logic is completely off base. Well GOOD FOR THE VICTIMS, I can't run a ponzi right.What you have to understand is that there is no specific order or pattern for which a Ponzi has to follow to be a Ponzi. Wow! we need to get this out to everyone!The primary aspect is that eventually, the vast majority of payments are made from late investor to early investor. What? Payments in my plan are derived from a 3rd entity - The Believers Trust which has no connection to the funds I receive from anyone. So, what are you talking about. .... You need to understand what I am doing before you make other comments. I know everyone doesn't misunderstand the plan.

Thanks again for showing your true intentions during this confidence building stage. You are welcome. By giving funds to someone in need definately shows my intentions. Why not ask them to allow you to give them advise and charge a fee!If your focus wasn't the HYIP group it might not be so obvious. My focus in only inn the hyip arena because they deserve to have something real; and, besides these type individuals should have enough knowledge to keep from being scammed.

Tell me why I would try to scam a group that knows more about scams than I do? Why wouldn't I post at "investors needed" forums where the gulliable reside. It's illogical for a scammer to try and scam people who know about such things.

Once again:

1) I have access to a Trust that has funds I can not access without a 3rd party.

2. I MUST give ALL the funds in that trust away to a 3rd party. I can not get to those funds in any way, shape or fashion without the approval of an accounting firm approving it.

3. I can accept anyone's money they send me, or any form of proof that I am going to send them money.

4. A simple way to give proof is for someone to tell me they are wanting to send me money. I take this as proof and present it to the Accountant. He authorizes me to cut a check for 150% of the funds which have not yet arrived, cash the check MYSELF, keep 100% and send the person that provided the proof 50% of the amount they desired to send me .... which they didn't.

5. Where is the flow of cash that resembles a ponzi scheme?

6. Show me where the risk is!

7. Where are the victims? I've been around since way before you even knew ponzi schemes even existed in the hyip arena.

8. I've been around since before the internet and have a membership base that believe in me and placing clients in real transactions.

9. I'm glad my logic of a scam if off base. I don't think in that realm.

10. All professional associates that I deal with make sure that I don't do anything illegal. Again, bring fourth the victims. I pay members their due, and some read these forums. Many don't. I would like just one to read this thread that has been scammed or thought to have been scammed. I know they won't post here, because NONE exist, and NONE will ever exist, therefore, NONE will ever surface.

I'm glad to see my thoughts on ponzi's are not correct. I do know that my thoughts on what I am doing in this arena, and have been doing outside this arena for years works, and I will continue to do it until MONEY goes out of style, and investments referral fees become illegal to collect.

My focus is in the arena where fraud abounds, and victims reside. Trying to cheat people with such knowledge would be a waste of time; but, my intent is different. These people need help, and I will help them based upon the funds available to be given away, and will adjust the REWARDS according to the number of members and the amount of funds which will equate to an amount that will work out to the benefit of all.

You are saying that I am trying to get people to have confidence in me to send more money. A limit of $500 every 2 months isn't enough to equate to anyone's life savings unless you are really unwise in your own thinking.

I don't care if anyone else joins with us. I have enough to keep up with right now. If the funds were in TBT, I'd start sending the funds out to them tomorrow. But, we have a time schedule, and the attorney has an appointment next Tuesday with the trading entity and let me know when to expect the funds for this project.

NO ONE has sent me any funds, and NO ONE will be asked to send me anything except authorization to send them 50% of an amount they choose from $500 and under. I'll keep 100% of that amount and send them with no obligation their 50%. All I need is a P.O. Box and name to send it to.

If the letter, void check, counter check with no bank coordinates, business card with a note on the back or anything I receive will show proof to the accounting department, I'll send out the funds to that name, address, and state. It's that simple.

Anyone can walk into my office and say they want funds for .... I'll have them fill-out a form and write them a check on the spot. They can go 2 block away and cash it on the spot, then walk away and never come back again, or can come back in 60 days and do it all over again.

Where is the ponzi, or scam? Bring fourth the victims!

The clock is ticking!

ycchen

September 15th, 2006, 10:42 PM

Maybe Ycchen ... but I'm not out to do anyone harm. You are too humble. I thought your purpose is to help the "believers" (believe in what??!) make money, while helping the needy (who??!) in your town. That's god-like job! Everyone win! Your scheme will be the first one to defeat capitalism! Bravo :applause: :applause: :rolleyes: .
The donors as you call them cost TBT alot of money. I need donors to access TBT's funds myself and cost TBT twice as much money than the donor. I'm not pulling a scam against anyone here, I need people to help me unlock the funds from TBT. ... Have you heard of 419 scam? If not, go and check it up so you can advoid using the scammer language.

See... we are here to help you, Believer. Your SLS is the worst kind we encounter so far. You need to learn more to get your SLS to work.

Since your SLS is so badly design, I suspect that you are just playing with us, right?

My advice to you: (1) redesign your SLS from scratch; (2) get esto to help you promote/defence your SLS; (3) stick with the ponzi forum, and stay away from MW; (4) dream harder. :)

Believer

September 15th, 2006, 11:16 PM

You are too humble. I thought your purpose is to help the "believers" (believe in what??! That there are real programs around.) make money, while helping the needy (who??!) in your town. That's god-like job! Everyone win! Your scheme will be the first one to defeat capitalism! Bravo :applause: :applause: :rolleyes: .

No it won't, there isn't enough money for more than 1200 members. We have limited funds based upon the placement of clients which are limited as well. This is a small group of less than 1,000 members which joined over 14 years. We aren't out to save the world, only make life better for our members.

Have you heard of 419 scam? If not, go and check it up so you can advoid using the scammer language. The language was initially used to explain certain aspects of our plan and how it imitated us, but did not duplicate us, nothing else.

See... we are here to help you, Believer. Your SLS is the worst kind we encounter so far. In what respect is it the worst? Is it because there are no victims which scams always have, is it because we don't require anyone to send us money? In want way is it the worst?

You need to learn more to get your SLS to work. It's working already and has been for years and years. We are only now after all this time opening it up to the HYIPers.

Since your SLS is so badly design, I suspect that you are just playing with us, right? Yes! I enjoy it myself! So, let's play post tag.

My advice to you: (1) redesign your SLS from scratch;

OK! Do you want to make any suggestions? Hey, I'll listen to you. I only request that you accept that I have authority to sign checks from a trust, and I need proof to present to the accounting department, $500 is the maximum proof I will accept every 60 days.

(2) get esto to help you promote/defence your SLS; I believe we have enough members right now, and do not need any further promotion.,

(3) stick with the ponzi forum, and stay away from MW; You mean like Talk Gold? I'll be able to go back there Sep 28th. OK, I'll only ask for help here, not try to acquire more members. I have 8 from this forum as of now. That' enough to post later as things develope. But, I'll always look for your advise here, so expect me to visit often.

(4) dream harder. :) OK! Donna hasn't been showing up in my dreams lately. I'll try to bring here back.

Look, I do have all that I have stated. Although it is hard to believe, and I can't explain it without associating it with scams. Even though I've had these problems, I have many inquiries and further questions. I talk to many on the phone, and even hear back from them. They read the updates and I post updates here.

I think (I'm not going to look to see if it's a duplicate post), I posted the attorney has an appointment the 19th to find out when, and how much money will be arriving to The Believers Trust which I DO have signatory authority over and those funds ARE ear-marked to be given a way.

I can work my WHOLE plan right here in my community. I've always wanted to deal in the hyip arena, and help some that have been scammed. Now that I can, it makes me feel good to do something like this.

PLEASE give me some guidance in designing the web page that will have it's own server and such. I'm going to seek out some design companies and tell them to read the information page and these links and come up with something.

Come on, help me now! Take what I have said as fact in these two aspects without proof and help me.!

1. The Believers Trust receives funds to be given away.

2. I have authority to write checks to others from the trust with no up-front money.

Presume it is $100 GROSS.

Presume I will NEVER ask for new money from investors.

Will you help me do this again from scratch?

I have until November to get it done. I'll know Tuesday afternoon when TBT will have funds, and how much I'll have alloted for this project til February 07'.

I know the information site isn't desirable, but it certainly surfaced a good many new members from the hyip arena.

Now, it's your turn. Write me something up. The clock is ticking.

Thanks,

Clayton