You matrix supporters...

[MatrixWatch]

You matrix supporters have blown it. You come here on the Matrix Watch forum and share your .02 cents every time, but you always end up putting your foot in your mouth.

Whenever we discuss an eBay scam, there you are telling us how unfair we are.. We say it is probably a stolen account or a matrix site closing. You say that we shouldn't jump the gun. What happens? The matrix site was closing. The eBay account ends up stolen.

Whenever we spot a site that shows all the signs of closing we immediately begin to discuss that site and prepare a "safety net" for the customers that will shortly come our way. What do you do? You stick up for the site owner, and cry and moan about how unfair we are to say such things about a site so "glorious". What happens? The site closes. The customers pour into our forums looking for a way to salvage their "investment". Anybody remember MatrixCom and all the customers that were "refunded". Geez... We have had more customers from matrixcom join our site to get advice than any other recent closure!

Whenever we discuss the legality of the matrix sites you preach and hollar about how we are sooooo mistaken. What is the result? Gee wizz, the Government of the great State of Tennessee comes through the door, closes matrix sites, and declares that this is an illegal-pyramid scam. Were they the first to announce this? Where we? Absolutely not. If there was never a more apparent opportunity for you matrix-site owners to see your folly it was the MSNBC article released in January that quoted government officials who questioned your legitimacy. If that was not enough, PaySystems immediately froze matrix accounts, foreshadowing what would happen several times over via the other pay companies.

You still didn't listen. You continue to operate your sites. You didn't take advice then, and you don't take advice now. In fact, you come here and defend yourselves. Sites close every day, more money is frozen with the processors, eBay and Yahoo have rejected you, and yet you still preach your false doctrine of fast cycles and everlasting-matrix life. It really is pathetic.

You will probably even muster up a few token arguments to defend yourselves now. Arguments that will be quickly belittled with the light of logic and the truth of sound reasoning. Your last resort is the 'buck' the law, and tell everyone how unfairly the legislative cards have been stacked against you. Yet you shout from the rooftops how the pay companies that have held your money should be held to the same standard of laws that your refuse to be subjected to.

I just don't know what else to say....

You've had an opportunity on these forums..

But you have blown it.

[mikv]

about the legality of it all, a matrix owner will dodge the legal question and pawn the "illegal nature" of a matrix site on to the next owner. They won't take up for the illegal actions they are doing yet they compare themselves to the next owner and point out all the illegal stuff on their site, when that owner probably took the idea and most likely copied everything from theirs. I just can't believe that there are still "die hard" supporters of the whole concept being that there are what 200+ sites and not one of them have gotten any better at fixing the structure of the scheme. They all still rely on the customer to advertise and promote for them and then they stiff the customer when they cycle. They enter this "business" with nothing but the shirt on their back and wonder why they can't succeed.

[sigx97]

Mike-
I still love how you try to play both sides of the story...

[mikv]

I think you mean MIK, there is no E in my handle and I am not "playing" both sides of anything. I see the few "good points" in running a matrix site, but I see more Illegal activity than good points and I voice my opinion as such. If that bothers people, GOOD, this is a forum for debate and it doesn't matter which side you debate for if you have valid arguments.

[concerned]

Originally posted by mikv
I think you mean MIK, there is no E in my handle and I am not "playing" both sides of anything. I see the few "good points" in running a matrix site, but I see more Illegal activity than good points and I voice my opinion as such. If that bothers people, GOOD, this is a forum for debate and it doesn't matter which side you debate for if you have valid arguments.

Good for you mikv. Why are they complaining about having someone argue THEIR side once in a while.

[mikv]

Yeah it's funny how they try to change the subject when you strike a nerve.

[sigx97]

Originally posted by mikv
I think you mean MIK, there is no E in my handle and I am not "playing" both sides of anything. I see the few "good points" in running a matrix site, but I see more Illegal activity than good points and I voice my opinion as such. If that bothers people, GOOD, this is a forum for debate and it doesn't matter which side you debate for if you have valid arguments.

Yeah way to point out a simple mistake by adding 1 letter. Good Job! And also I could careless about having MIK argue our side. MIK is an instigator. MIK comes on to matrix boards and trys to act like he is all for it, then when he is called out on it, he goes and deltes all his messages. What bothers me is you are just trying to stir up stuff. So you run around posting whatever you think people on a particualr board want to hear.
Anyway this is way off track. As for what watchdog said in his post...blah blah blah...yadda yadda...

[mikv]

You must be referring to someone else. I have had posts deleted in other forums in the heat of debate, but that is not the issue here. We are talking about a site that you promote on every matrix forum and nowhere else and you are getting upset. Bring some relevant points to the table. Don't just come in here to try to "call me out", I am not the enemy here. You should really be thinking about any recourse on your actions promoting a site such as this. Helping to gather the next victim is an accessorie and you need to take this time to show why you are not to blame for people losing their money. I pointed out your "mistake" as you put it because it's little oversights such as that, that get people into things they can't get out of such as misreading or misstyping a TOS. And to point out that on any keyboard, the E is on the opposite side of the M, I and K and such a mistake should never have been made. Although that is typical with a matrix supporter or owner, you never proof read or really think about the actions, you just do it and hope it's alright; and when someone calls you on it you get defensive.

[Shield]

Well MIK or whatever, I have been watching this forum.
You need to get a clue. Watchdog is out to steal money from all the customer involved in matrix sites. Why, because you let him.

Why should those of us who make our on money, have to have you decide for us where we can spend it. Truth be know, Watchdog claims he's doing this for his customers, Well Please see the donation URL on the left. HA HA.

Look at his lawyers website. He does this for free or a small amount... until he wins and deducts he hefty fee from the proceeds.....YEAH!!!!

Watch out for the WATCHpup


:D

[mjkski]

Clue? Yeaaaaaaaaaa that is what he needs. How can he steal the customer's money when the Matrix site already did that? Moreover, many of them have closed shop and blown out of town with the money.


So- can you legally spend your own (or "on") money on cocaine? No? Why not? See- because it adversely effects the lives of others. It's not just all about you, it is about the other people and how it effects them. In addition, if it is a legitimate business then there should not be a worry in your little head….but maybe you should read the forum a little more and see what happened to a few sites. And I think it is just the start of things to come.

[muggs]

OK guys I am new here and I don't want to make any enemies...yet, but I have a few things to say/ask. First off I can not say that I am pro matrix or opposed to them but I have, on my own without anyone holding my hand telling me the risks, bought "an ebook" and got a spot in a matrix. But that seems to be what everyone here is trying to do is to act like mothers to the whole internet community. I think most of the people in the matrixes are most likely fairly intelligent people who can make their own decisions. Then again maybe I am wrong and they are mostly comprised of Joe-Bob buttf*ck from East Bumblef*ck. I knew the risk but I figured I would take the chance. I didn't buy into a matrix where I would be number 1532 but one where I am number 3. Better chance of getting it but maybe I won't only time will tell. The second thing I have to say is that a lot of people here talk about the legality of these sites and that it is a big risk. I have to ask these people have any of you ever heard of the lotto? You have worse odds winning that then getting something from one of these sites. On the point of the site owners stealing peoples money have any of you ever heard of the stock market? That is a legal buisness but if you remember that little thing that happened with Enron you know that the people who bought stock in that company had their money stolen. I do see the side of the Watch Dog team that some of these sites are very shadey, prey on the nieve and hide the list lengths from people until after they have bought into the matrix and even on pro-matrix sites people bash the practice of hiding list lengths. I think that it is up to the people wether it be in the stock market, lotto or matrix sites to know what they are doing and the risks of it if they don't sorry but tough sh*t. As the saying goes if it seems too good to be true it probably is. Of course you aren't going to get a four thousand dollar television for two hundred bucks. Caveat emptor.

Just my two cents.

muggs

[mikv]

You mentioned something about "asking" a question? Sounds like you asked and answered your own question. As far as this post goes, I would suggest you read a little bit more in depth all the postings on this site. You have brought up old subjects that were covered here and exhausted. You bring up some ok points, but you will find the answers you are looking for by browsing the older postings.

[MatrixWatch]

No profanity. A * does not make you immune. The is your warning.

[hurley9192]

My biggest beef with this whole thing is that they are advertising these sites as a place to get cheap electronics, which is why the people are there in the first place. That pretty much makes them a ponzi scheme. Also, there are a lot of naive people that have signed up for sites and not known what they are signing up for and figure "what the heck" and there are a ton of people that know this will happen and get to cycle because of them. They market these things on ebay and take advantage of the people that don't know any better by promising a laptop for $160 and don't tell them that they will be #150 in line and won't ever get the laptop.

[muggs]

Watchdog- Sorry about that figured a * would be ok

Hurley- I see what you are saying about so many people getting ripped off thinking they are going to get cheap electronics automatically but like I said, but didn't translate, caveat emptor "buyer be ware"

Mikv- First I didn't answer either of the questions that I asked. That would be impossable since I asked others if they had heard of things. Second ease up on me not having gone through all of the other postings. I am new remember? Third I have read other postings by you and you seem to have a lot of built up anger possiably from bad childhood experiances or maybe from a bad relationship with your father. I am a psychology major let's talk sometime.:cool:

muggs

[sigx97]

=)

[mjkski]

Psych major? Okay- that explains it. Anyway- So if everything is "buyer beware" or "buyer be ware" as you put it- (I can tell you’re not an English major) then why do we have laws in place- to protect the consumer? Many laws about contracts, returns and scams all protecting the consumer from fraud. I will answer that if I may- See people make mistakes, they read things quickly or they don't truly understand what they purchased until several months down the road. Some just don't have the knowledge to really see what they are buying. And the whole premise of a Matrix is all about distortions from the true facts. If it's a legitimate business then you should have nothing to worry about. If it's selling a product and not misleading consumers then there should be no problem. But see that is a problem isn't it?

[mikv]

that is about the funniest thing I've seen MIS-TYPED yet. Psychology huh, how could you have possibly graduated anything with that many misspelled words in your post. No thanks, I'll wallow in my "anger" for a little while longer. Does your Psychology practice include a free Plasma TV?? You might be on to something there, although:

Stagnant mind=Stagnant lists
Mis-typed TOS=Angry confused customers.

Just ask any matrix owner. As well stick to relevant facts, don't try to attack me with your futile insults trying to gain some ground in a discussion you clearly know nothing about.
You said it yourself you are NEW, and I merely suggested what Watchdog would have told you and that would be to READ through the site BEFORE you post.

[muggs]

mjkski- Of course I am not an English major as it states in my post and profile I am a psych major. I understand your point about the laws protecting consumers but all I am trying to say is that people like those on this site shouldn't have to go around telling people not to do something. Others should be more aware of what they are getting themselves into. As I stated before af course you aren't going to get a $4000 plasma TV for $200. If you did ever get a deal like that the TV would most likely be broken.

mikv- Never have I or ever will I claim to be good at spelling and grammar. That is why I use spell check when I have reports to do. Also you ask if my practice comes with a free TV. You have the nerve to tell others to read through posts before posting something? Why don't you take a look at that post of mine a little better. Pay close attention to where it says that I am a PSYCHOLOGY MAJOR. That means I am still in school.
This is the kind of person that is going to try to help out other people who are misinformed and he can't even get the facts straight?

[MatrixWatch]

Originally posted by Muggs
I understand your point about the laws protecting consumers but all I am trying to say is that people like those on this site shouldn't have to go around telling people not to do something.

Mr. Muggs,
Thanks for posting today.

If "yielding is the way of the Tao" then you should shut your mouth and stop TELLING us what to we should and should not be TELLING others.:) Your point contradicts itself. You tell us we "shouldn't have to go around telling people not to do something", yet that is exactly what you are doing here in this thread. I mean, re-read your post, like.. 4 more times. Do you see the contradiction yet?

We are informing customers of a danger ahead, and you invent some reason why that is somehow wrong. Oh, sorry that we are giving people more info not found on the matrix site FAQ/TOS pages. After all, the customers should be making a decision based on what they read there only right?

If you read the MSNBC articles you will see that government agencies have already issued strong warnings about getting involved in these sites. The only reason that you would come in here and spray that non-sensical philosophy of yours is because you must have vested interest in these sites. What? Are you on a list somewhere? Do you own a site?:)

[muggs]

I never told any of you you can't tell others anything. In fact the only thing I have told someone here to do is when i told mikv to "Pay close attention to where it says that I am a PSYCHOLOGY MAJOR." Also I HAVE yeilded I have yeilded to your opinions and listened to them that is all I want you to do listen to my opinions. But when I try to state my opinions what happens? One of these little buttmonkeys comes in here all full of anger for whatever reason and attacks me for my spelling? How immature is that? Never have I stated that you can't go around "informing customers of a danger ahead" I merely said that you SHOULDN'T HAVE TO. If no-one tried to con anyone else then you wouldn't have to and there wouldn't be those laws. But there are and people know there are so they should be able to take it upon themselves to find out what they are getting into by looking at things carefully. A lot of sites I have seen tell you how matrixes work if you can't do simple math then...hey what can I say. You suggested that I read MSNBC reports sorry but I am a Fox News kinda guy because I like the "No-Spin Zone" and that is why I can't figure out why I am even in this site because it spins more than a merry-go-round. You asked if I am an owner of a site or on a list on a site. Once again I will have to refer back to an earlier posting where I stated "I knew the risk but I figured I would take the chance. I didn't buy into a matrix where I would be number 1532 but one where I am number 3. Better chance of getting it but maybe I won't only time will tell." I trust you can figure that one out.:rolleyes:

muggs

[MatrixWatch]

I do agree with you on the spelling. That is a little low.

The only reason we warn people is because a couple months back, this thing was sweeping across the net. There were thousands of eBay auctions up, and it was nuts. So many people were left in the wake of the disaster a few sites left, and we have been trying to help them get their money back.

[muggs]

See that I disagree with 100%, not you but the ebay auctions. I have seen those and the people are so shady that put them up they fill the description up with information about the product and bury in it the fact that the auction is only for a link. That is horriable at least on the matrix sites, or on the ones I have seen you can go right to the FAQ section to see that you will have to wait for x amount of people to get the product. I applaud you guys for going after those kinds of auctions because that just isn't sporting.

muggs

[mjkski]

Muggs Wrote Third I have read other postings by you and you seem to have a lot of built up anger possiably from bad childhood experiances or maybe from a bad relationship with your father. I am a psychology major let's talk sometime

Okay Muggs, you attack someone's relationship with their father and then you get unhinged when you are jousted about your spelling. I think you were the one that was pugnacious with your comments.

Either way-If it was I that made you that upset- Then I apologize.

[mikv]

Thanks mjksi,

Muggs you have a serious problem and you need not make me part of it. You came into this forum and tried to belittle my posting and throw a personal shot at my family. If I were you I would crawl back under the rock that I came from under and stop the verbal assault you have waged on me. That is all that need be said. Keep to relevant facts regarding matrix sites and quit acting like a little kid when someone reply's to your ridiculous posts. Cry to watchdog all you want, but keep the insults to yourself!

[muggs]

mjkski- That wasn't directed towards you it was to mikv. That was only because, if you look back at the posts, he attacked my spelling first. Which frankly he is right about but that isn't the point. I only tried to give a possiable reason for his anger. Frankly mjkski from what I have heard from you I respect you.

mikv- I was not the one who tried to do the belittling. YOU tried to attack me for my spelling THEN I attacked you. I did not try to make a personal attack on your family I merely stated a reason that may attribute to your hostility. Relevant facts reguarding matrix sites? How is my spelling relevant? Cry to watchdog??!! I never did. As a matter of fact if you have been reading the posts he and I have gotten into arguements.. But he and I are, I believe, two intelligent people who can get into a healthy argument without having to attack each others typing skills or getting too heated over it. I never wanted to make any enemies but if I get attacked I will attack back. If you keep it friendly I will keep it friendly as I have done with mjkski.

muggs

[mikv]

Ok, you've said your piece now quit taking this thread off it's track. Get back to the matrix site discussion or find another forum that deals with your issues.

[damion]

Can't we all just get along?
I see this thread becoming a whining session. It is like a couple of kids in the back seat of a car on a long trip:
"Mom, he hit me."
"He hit me first."
Blah blah blah...

We are all adults here - most of us anyways.

I agree that his spelling is horrible (possibly just trying to type to fast) but we all have had our moments or quirks about us.
I suggest you all read Rudyard Kiplings' "IF" - a great poem that could give you a slightly better outlook on the day.

Muggs - Do not worry about your spelling, we get your point. As a psychology major, please answer this: What would we your reasons for your theory of "two rights make a wrong" attitude?

I do not mean to insult you. I just want to point out that the bickering and child's play is unwarranted and unwanted.


Damion

[muggs]

damion- Most of the time it isn't fast typing my spelling just sucks. But if you think that is bad you should see my handwriting:eek:

Also a Philosophy major would be better able to answer that question. I never said two rights do make a wrong but it turns out they do, kinda:

Teacher: In English a double negative will make a posative such as "That isn't going to never happen". In Russian a double posative can make a negative but that can never happen in English.

Student: Yeah right.:p


muggs

[Lesbos Islander]

damion thanks we needed that.

this is ridiculous, everyone is acting like little kids at a playground fighting over a ball, does anyone even have anything relevant to add to this forum beside critiquing and bashing each others posts.

Will someone PLEASE help this forum

[hurley9192]

if you notice, that's how it was before when all the anti-matrixwatch people were here...nothing got accomplished and everyone argued over stupid things. Notice the post before yours was over 2 weeks ago.

Things are much nicer now that the bad seeds have been taken out.

[mikv]

Yeah I like to think that muggs and I have squashed the rift...Although there was some name calling that Watchdog allowed to stay when this was in violation of the forum rules was it not? I guess Watchdog shared mugg's view at the time.

[MatrixWatch]

Hurley,
Could you work something out with Lesbos Islander regarding your avatar..? They are so similar when yours rotates to Kenny, and I thought you posted back-to-back. I just want to cut down on confusion.

[muggs]

Originally posted by hurley9192
if you notice, that's how it was before when all the anti-matrixwatch people were here...nothing got accomplished and everyone argued over stupid things. Notice the post before yours was over 2 weeks ago.

Things are much nicer now that the bad seeds have been taken out.

Hey you calling me a bad seed? :)

Originally posted by mikv
Yeah I like to think that muggs and I have squashed the rift

I second that opinion! :D
I just gotta remember to stop posting when I am drunk. I am really a lot calmer.

muggs

[hurley9192]

actually, I wasn't Muggs...just a general feeling of all the arguing.