The lies of Clayton L. Parker

[Dreamer]

I have already started a thread with the background information on this scammer:

http://matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=4981&page=1

The only truth is that he spent time in jail scamming people in 1992. Of course his story while there is mighty doubtful "bankers and lawyers" and anything after this is also suspect. So, why admit the jail thing? Because a simple background check will most likely reveal this information. But, with the rest of his lies, I'm sure there is no truth to anything else.

Within a week of posting all the versions of how he came into money, he came up with yet another history.

http://goldentalk.com/t25076.html

FOLKS, do me a favor if you will. On other forums like MatrixWatch they bash some of my members who are telling them how I helped them out of a situation and are saying I am a conman. That's OK, I am! But, not intentionally in any way. I learned about this high yeilding arnea while in Federal Prison back in 1991-1992 for helping pioneer the pre-paid phone calling cards.

I purchased 'BLOCKS OF TIME' from Sprint, ATT, Alltell, and other phone companies. The would give me the phone numbers over the phone, and an 800 number and a code. I would sell the number the same way.

Well, they didn't tell me that some of the phone numbers had a past due bill attached with it, and when I sold the number, sometime later the whole bill went to the person I sold it too.

Who do you think they pointed their finger at when the bill showed up?

I pled GUILTY because I was STUPID, and went to jail. Those that did not plead guilty were dismissed.

WELL, the GOOD NEWS, I spent 15 months of 18 month term with bankers and lawyers who befriended me and taught me about this arena. After many years, I have now found myself in FULL CONTROL of over $3.4 million dollar estate earning upwards of 35% per month. 30% of those EARNINGS are earmarked for the plans at my site, and I was given authorization to REFUND every past plan that FAILED for reasons not my own.

The PRINCIPAL owner is a very nice lady, and has given me FULL control of the monies held by the trading entity offshore. I have Signatory Authority over The Believers Trust as well. Irrevocable Signatory Authority - FULL CONTROL.

Wait, what happened to the kind benefactor with the $500,000? What happened to working very hard for the past 15 years? What happened to this super secret world of money making elite? Now he just has access to an estate and is able to pay off people he scammed.

Just another lie.

He spent time in jail, he has many failed scams in the past 7-10 years. He is a world class trader earning 35% a year in something off shore, and a kind old lady wants to use her estate to pay off people he stole from. Ok.

Now, lets get to the phone issue.

I'm easy to reach, and if you call and I don't answer, remember I live in an area where we can't get a land line. Now that's way OUT!

...

I will have a brick and mortor building and land lines by March with ladies to help you as you call in. What I have now is real, if it weren't I could never be able to pay the funds lost by some of you back DOUBLE.

What about the truck business he owns?

http://matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4981

C layton owns a trucking company, he does not drive the trucks. He has a whole bunch of drivers. I don't know what truchin stories you are talking about.

So, if he owned that trucking company wouldn't he have a brick and morter store? Wouldnt he have a landline to conduct business there?

What about the number (601) 656-xxx7 and fax (707) 516-xxx0? Are those cell phone numbers?

But now when u do a reverse lookup on that phone number you get a residental dwelling.

The phone services avaiable in Philadelphia MS is Bellsouth. But as an owner of a trucking company that has a whole bunch of drives (one power unit) i dont think having a real phone is a problem.

But then we have:

Clayton called and will stop at a wifi truckstop and link up by 9:45CST. for tonights chat. He is on I95 in DC at 7:01EST. He is going to continue on south to a truckstop and will stop for the night and the chat, but will be about 1 hour late.

Did all the many truckers he has hired all sick so thats why he's doing the driving?

His many other lies have been documented, so now onto another one:

Email. Group email? Huh? Even in the days of BBSs I had my own email that I didnt have to share with anyone. Why share email? Has this always been the case? Well not till surfer busted him. Now, thats the big deal with him that when u go to the members page, you have to make sure to check the community mail. Use a sign-in forum. Use regular email. Community email? I have never heard of such a silly thing.

Then the testimonals started coming in January 17th from an elderly lady who decided that matrixwatch would be the best place to post a testimonal. Along with a cut and past to hyip sites, though clayton really really hates hyipers.

The interesting thing about her story is she says:

1. I am just an elderly lady out here in Ohio.
2. Yesterday i was in Texas
3. $37 we have
4. I had fasted for 3 days

I dont think $37 in gas will drive you back home to Ohio. In fact, if the ice storms were really that bad how did they drive out of there? Now, I'm assuming they were driving because thats what they said. If you're visiting family or friends house you'd hope that they have enough bread and butter stocked in the fridge. If I visit a friend's place and have to fast for 3 days I'm gonna see if i can get an earlier plane ticket.

But this elderly lady is worried about utilities and forecloosure. Then why is she taking a trip to texas?

Webwatch makes a good point about the ice storm and coming here to post her testimonal. If your worried about foreclosure and not enough bread and butter, don't you think it would be a good idea to turn off the internet? Maybe sell you computer?

The day before that P Roberts wanted to share his great success of babypips and getting back money within 90 days. Of course babypips didnt go live until November I believe, so 90 days hasnt happened yet.

scgold decided to have his own testimonal in that thread because people remembred clayton offered me $1,000 and never paid up, so he wanted to make sure everybody knew i was the only one notting it.

Now, once surfer busted them with the email lies, they start saying a few days after crap about "We are eyes and get paid for it".

Ferret found this interesting paragraph:

I don't think anyone has ever thought of before to have a web of 50 to 100 eyes looking at all the sites and keeping up with EVERY post as they are posted and getting on top of them at a moment's notice.

Why? 50 to 100 people? The only people who are talking about this scam is clayton and the phony testimonals. nobody else. Just the sites he posts and gets banned from. It only takes 1 person to keep the 3 or 4 forums open and see if anyone says antyhing.

Of coruse thats not the only mention of the "eyes" Now they are pretending like they always do it.

Some testimonal wanted people to say who hasnt been paid. Well, i havent. What are the stories behind that?

I did make an enemy at matrixwatch.org with Dreamer who wasn't helped because I was banned there before I could get back to him, and he didn't follow through and made some negative post just recently.


Mark my word, a moron that hangs out there will do that. And, I'll NEVER pay the person named Dreamer for his unthankful comments when I could not get to him. He screwed himself.



Clayton promised to send funds to “Dreamer” and when he came to the forum to do so he found out that he was “banned.” Therefore, he could not contact Dreamer to get the funds to him, and then he discovered that he was being verbally attacked by Dreamer. He was dismayed to be called names by someone whom he had intended to help. Consequently, he resolved not to give the funds to someone who was “biting the hands that would feed him. So, the real reason Clayton ultimately DID not help Dreamer was due to Dreamer’s “bad-mouthing” him.


In Dreamer’s case all he had to do was to try to contact Clayton, with respect and patience, and Clayton would have come through for him.

Before I continue, Clayton has my contact information. And he is pretending like he wants to pay off people he scammed in Bonded Investing 2. So, if he lost my info, all he had to do was post anywhere else that I should contact him. Hell, as webwatch (I think) posted, the name was banned, nothng else. He could have come back here at any point since the promise to get my info.

Now we come to the nice conclusion that was meant all along, but everybody just forgot to mention it:

As for an older topic. Dreamer wanted to accept $$ help that Clayton freely offered at the time, however after group meeting of SamGroup board it was decided that Dreamer's attitude and numerous negative posts towards Clayton, that Dreamer no longer qualified for the Free $$$ help offered to him.

As pointed out by webwatch (sorry if im getting people's names mixed up here) earlier, there were no pre-requisites for me to receive the help. I even offered to pay back the money when I could. I didnt have to join any program, and there was no qualification process. The money was supposed to be sent in the middle of september, and he was banned late october.

I qualified then when the check was supposed to be cut to me, but i dont qualify 4 months later when testimonals start popping up and I shart showing that they are all fake.

I know you guys like to quote the bible, but I will not. Instead I'll give you some info on the main character of the story.

You see back then tax collectors were the scum of the earth, but he hung around them. He helped and befriended people that nobody else would, prostitutes, lepors, whomever. You see, he lead his life helping those who needed it. There is something about "judge not and ye shall not be judged". A religious group like this judging someone for pointing out they are scams.

Even so, there was one of the guys he hung around with that decided to betray him 3 times. And this main guy of the story didnt hate him and wish he go to hell for denying him.

Clayton thinks of me as an enemy because I pointed out his lies. He is not my enemy. He is just a scammer that cant keep his story straight.

BTW what does the SAM Group even mean? of, as pointed out, does it just simply mean "The ScAM group without the "see"?"

[Webwatch]

I can't believe I've missed this.
The SClaytonAM Group, Clayton is the missing "C".

He's been giving us clues all along "Eyes"="see"="C"
Never been any good at this cryptic stuff.

[coppertop]

Dreamer,

What's the matter, you can dish it out but can't take it, so you want a thread deleted that YOU YOURSELF STARTED. You are just like the rest of the folks here that whine and cry when you don't get your way. Poor little boy!

You need to get a dog so you will have something else to play with besides your computer and yourself.

GG

[Dreamer]

The threads were started after clayton wanted to push his scam over here with fake testimonals. Since his banning here he was forgotten and never discussed.

The childish nature of this truck driver in creating all these fake profiles is just beyond absurd. I'm not the only one who thinks this. I'm sure other people here probably think clayton is behind all the fake profiles. But in other forums he was claimed to be ima among other people.

[sisco50]

The threads were started after clayton wanted to push his scam over here with fake testimonals. Since his banning here he was forgotten and never discussed.

The childish nature of this truck driver in creating all these fake profiles is just beyond absurd. I'm not the only one who thinks this. I'm sure other people here probably think clayton is behind all the fake profiles. But in other forums he was claimed to be ima among other people.

Pretty sure about the fake testimonials but have to admit I don't give this topic much thought as I already know what I need to know.

As for coppertops 'whining and crying' thoughts, I seriously doubt I fit the bill. I seriously doubt that most regular posters here fit the bill as they don't get involved in scams; just in warning others to stay away and the reasons why.

[coppertop]

Pretty sure,??? Are you? Is this just a CAVEMAN opinion. NO proof!

Let's hope you don't depend on "WHAT YOU KNOW" on information found at this forum.

You will be a looser the rest of your life.

GG

[coralal]

if parker has all this money, then why does he not pay back all the people he scammed for thousands of dollars last year with his guanteed sign up lead program.

he scammed many of our members.:rant: :mad:

[Dreamer]

coralal, I can answer that.

Cause Caveman no need money. Just eyes and ears.

[coppertop]

if parker has all this money, then why does he not pay back all the people he scammed for thousands of dollars last year with his guanteed sign up lead program.

he scammed many of our members.:rant: :mad:


He has paid those that acquired the means for him to pay them. He pays by MasterCard that is FREE with no annual fee.

You need to get up to date and catch up on your reading (if you read), so do those you say that want to be paid and hadn't.

WE have it all over the web what to do, maybe he needs to draw cavemen pictures so the rock men that read this site can get the "picture" - reckon!

Go to his site and you will find it is unmistakable how he intends to pay. They are welcome to come pick up the cash if they want, or call and make arrangements, or send notes by pigeons or send a cavegram. They need to contact him, not let you tell us we haven't paid some (which you are only guessing). How can he pay if they don't contact Clayton.

I know it early in the week and your bath is not due until Saturday, but go wash out your eyes and ears. Then come back and make a comment worthy of our attention.

GG

[coppertop]

coralal, I can answer that.

Cause Caveman no need money. Just eyes and ears.


Yes, but they need to be cleaned more than once per week! Surely, knowing cavemen, they use some kind of lubricant other than just on Saturday when their bath comes around. Rub some on your eyes and in your ears while it's on your hand and all lathered up. Don't forget to rince it off. Use your Sponge Bob.

GG

[mercinary]

Just want to poke my head in here to remind folks to keep to the forum rules. No name calling or personal attacks. I know that isn't easy during this kind of discussion, but please try....

-Merc

[Webwatch]

He has paid those that acquired the means for him to pay them. He pays by MasterCard that is FREE with no annual fee.So how does this work then, does he send someone his own Mastercard and let them use it or use their details to apply for a Mastercard for them, does he mean a Credit Card or Debit Card.

Why can't he just send a cheque or Bank Transfer or Paypal, I know each have fees but surely if Clayton is posting a Mastercard to people their are postage costs to consider as well as the risk of not getting it back.

Hopefully he's not using personal details to register other people for Mastercards then the card shows up with $2000 credit only for them to find that this is credit and not a pre-paid amount and when the monthly statement arrives they have to pay this back.

Apparently the Mastercards aren't ready yet so where you say:
'He has paid those that acquired the means for him to pay them'
What means are these-is their another quicker method those waiting for cash can use.

[coppertop]

So how does this work then, does he send someone his own Mastercard and let them use it or use their details to apply for a Mastercard for them, does he mean a Credit Card or Debit Card.

The ONLY thing asked for at the ENTRY PAGE is: Name, Cell Phone and e-mail. Then the INVITATION to get the card will be sent to that person by the CASH CARD company. No one gets any personal information that you don't want them to have - it's a debit card comes with $5 just for signing up.

Why can't he just send a cheque or Bank Transfer or Paypal, too much personal information required from the member. He does it his way and the CASH CARD is the way to go NOT E-GOLD.

I know each have fees but surely if Clayton is posting a Mastercard to people their are postage costs to consider as well as the risk of not getting it back.
This card has NO FEES, to you there is NO POSTAGE, why complaign about how he pays people. It wouldn't matter what he did, there would be someone here to compain about it. Don't you think?

Hopefully he's not using personal details to register other people for Mastercards then the card shows up with $2000 credit only for them to find that this is credit and not a pre-paid amount and when the monthly statement arrives they have to pay this back. That's nothing more that a pigment in your imagination. It has nothing to do with reality.

Apparently the Mastercards aren't ready yet so where you say:
'He has paid those that acquired the means for him to pay them' Simply meaning, those that applied for the CASH CARD and received it so he could load it in seconds after they told him they had it in their hands.
What means are these-is their another quicker method those waiting for cash can use.
They are made when the invitation sent to the company sends out the invitation and the person responds and applies directly with the MC company. He has chosen this method, and that's the ONLY way he is going to get them paid. Otherwise, he would be waiting for them to tell him how they want to be paid and that's nonsense.

I spend several hours wth Clayton every day, and his system is efficient for those that follow simple instructions. It's posted everywhere and you can't enter his site without seeing IN YOUR FACE the instructons and what you need to do to get paid. There are no complaints from those that acquire the card because within 3 minutes of him knowing they have the card in their hand, it is loaded by him while they watch. All one does is fill in the information and a request to the company to send that persaon an invitation to request their card is sent to them by the company. The card never shows up at Claytons address and him forward it on. To the person, it is absolutely FREE. His wife is very sick right now and he is letting me and others handle the daily duties. I paid a lady for him just the other day ... you know her ... Dusty ... she refuses to come back here to post among what she calls very STUPID people ... But, never the less, I sent her $200 and she had it in seconds. I took it out of the funds set aside for some that did not follow through and get the card so they could be paid. Those funds will be replaced WHEN AND IF needed, otherwise they were put to good use. Funds are available to pay a whole bunch of people ... IF ONLY ... they would get their CASH CARD. What else can I tell you? As time goes on, and people acquire the card to be paid, you will hear more about it. But, I believe the method set up will work for the benefit of all concerned. There is no doubt the programs are working just fine in the background like they have been for years prior to Clayton getting involved and in control in all aspects. You don't have to believe it, but time will start benefiting so many people that they will eventually show up on the web some place. I'll be here to poke it in your face and tell you I told you so! You can count on that! Clayton called a few minutes ago to let me know about the court in Atlanta decision on the "forced bankruptsey" he forced on a past scammer that caused a program failure. He was awarded $65K. He is continuing to go after those that caused the Bonded-Investing II program failure. He's still got Lloyd's bank to deal with in June .. I think it's June ... But he has them running scared. If he doesn't come out with multi-millions in his pocket, I'll be very surprised. He's already looking for the members to pay. And, look at what he has to put up with here for doing that. I don't think he wants your approval on anything, it just happened to appear that way and one thing led to another so here we are. By the time June comes around, things will have changed drastically and the "pictures painted on the rocks so some of you can read" will tell a different story than what has been said by others. I don't think calling someone what they are is name calling! Clayton said he called his mother-in-law UGLY, and she got offended, but he opened the dictionary and under UGLY was her picture. I think he doctored it up though! Look up "caveman" and see if your picture is there before you get offended. Ha! Hey, it's been fun. I'm going to drop by the hospital after I leave here. It's 5:00 so I wasted enough time here today. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

GG

[Webwatch]

More of the same Clayton, but thats fine I have no problem with people being paid money its only the requesting of money for your schemes which cause's suspicion.

The method you have chosen just seems hard work.

Clayton called a few minutes ago to let me know about the court in Atlanta decision on the "forced bankruptsey" he forced on a past scammer that caused a program failure.Can you supply more information on which particular court case this is in reference too. I feel kind of guilty taking issue with everything your post but this may be usefull to show that at least once that the truth is present.

I don't think calling someone what they are is name calling! Clayton said he called his mother-in-law UGLY, and she got offended, but he opened the dictionary and under UGLY was her picture. I think he doctored it up though! Look up "caveman" and see if your picture is there before you get offended.Ah the old jokes again.

By the time June comes around, things will have changed drastically and the "pictures painted on the rocks so some of you can read" June?? The last deadline was November or was that regarding The Belivers Trust. I thought March was the deadline when you get your Brick and Mortar store operational.

[Dreamer]

June is when he starts his case against lloyds bank. Somehow he thinks it will be over the same day.

[coppertop]

Below is information released to the other Plaintiffs in the suit against Lloyd's TBS Bank. You can see we have had a long and expensive road to get this far. It has been proven Lloyd's committed fraud and has to answer to the charges in an American Court. The damages could amount into the millions not counting the $12M misapproiated by them.

Our day in court is only a short 8 months away now. The loss occurred in 1999, and it took us this long to get it this far, now we are on the final leg of the litigation. We feel very confident in the final decision although Lloyd's was successful in eliminating many of those who lost money with them. We are appealing that now.

DATES/DEADLINES IN LLOYDS CASE

Revised 11/9/06



June 3, 2004: Lawsuit filed against Lloyds on this date in United States District Court for Middle District of Tennessee, Case No. 04-CV-468. and filing fee paid.
June 3, 2004: Notice of Initial Case Management Conference: Case Management Conference set for 11:30 7/26/04, Case referred to Magistrate Judge Joe B. Brown.
June 15, 2004: Lloyds served with process and on notice of lawsuit.
Lloyds' Law Firm: Ogletree, Deakins, Nash, Smoak, & Stewart of Nashville, Tennessee Attorney: William S. Rutchow, Esq.
June 15, 2004: Extension given to Lloyds to answer Plaintiffs' Complaint until July 12, 2004.
June16, 2004: Agreed order by Magistrate Judge Joe B. Brown that the defendant shall have until 7/12/04 to answer or respond to the complaint.
June 25, 2004: Plaintiff' Request for Admission served on Lloyds on this date. Amend Complaint by defendants; jury demand
June 28, 2004: Lloyds' Attorney Bill Rutchow request via letter that the Attorney for the Plaintiffs disclose to Lloyds, pursuant to Court Rules, the identity of the un-named Plaintiffs in the lawsuit.
July 11, 2004: Lloyds' Answer to Plaintiffs' Complaint due by this date at midnight.
July 12, 2004: Pre-Case Management conference Meeting between Plaintiffs' Attorney and Defendant's Attorney to discuss proposed Case Management Order.
July 12, 2004: Lloyds files Motion to Dismiss and Motion for Stay of Discovery at 4:02 p.m., past what Plaintiffs assert is past deadline for Lloyds to respond to Plaintiffs' Amended Complaint.
July 12, 2004: Motion by Defendant Lloyds Bank to dismiss
July 12, 2004: Notice by defendant Lloyds Bank of filing affidavit of Andrew Philip Hobbs
July 13, 2004: Plaintiffs file Motion for Default Judgment against Lloyds
July 13, 2004: Order of Magistrate Judge Joe B. Brown: Case Management Conference reset for 11:30 on 8/3/04.
July 13, 2004: Return of Service executed upon defendant Lloyds Bank on 6/3/04 by certified mail
July 14, 2004: Affidavit of Andrew Philip Hobbs
July 15, 2004: Plaintiffs file Notice of Filing of Affidavit
July 19, 2004: Lloyds files Memorandum in Opposition to Motion for Default Judgment
July 20, 2004: Plaintiffs file Motion for an Extension of Time until 7/30/04
July 22, 2004: Plaintiffs' Motion for an Extension of Time granted by Court.
July 23, 2004: Lloyds' answers and responses to Plaintiff's Interrogatories and Request for Production of Documents due by this date.
July 28, 2004: Lloyds' response to Plaintiffs' Request for Admission by this date.
July 28, 2004: Proposed case management order
July 30, 2004: Plaintiffs' Response to Lloyds' Motion to Dismiss and Motion for Stay of Discovery due by this date.
July 30, 2004: Order by Judge Robert L. Echols granting motion for leave to file sure reply in opposition to motion for default judgment. The Clerk is directed to file Sur Reply memorandum in Opposition to Motion for Default Judgment.
August 3, 2004: Case Management Conference at United States District Courthouse, Middle Tennessee at Nashville.
August 3, 2004: Default judgment against Lloyds for late filing: Denied.
August 3, 2004: Judge ordered to stay discovery from Lloyds until District Judge ruled on pending Motions to Dismiss on September 20, 2004; whichever is earlier.
August 9, 2004: Agreed Order, filed with the Court, between Plaintiffs and Defendant granting extension of time for Plaintiffs to respond to Defendant's Supplemental Motion to Dismiss until and through August 12, 2004.
August 10, 2004: Plaintiffs' Motion to Compel Corporate Disclosure Statement filed with the Court against the Defendant.
August 12, 2004: Corporate disclosure statement filed by defendant Lloyds Bank TSB.
August 12, 2004: Plaintiff's Response to the Defendant's Supplemental Motion to Dismiss.
August 12, 2004: Plaintiffs' Memorandum in Opposition to the Defendant's Supplemental Motion to Dismiss.
August 12, 2004: Plaintiffs' Amended Complaint--Class Action filed with the Court.
August 13, 2004: Plaintiffs' Motion to Amend Complaint filed with Court.
August 13, 2004: Plaintiffs' Memorandum in Support of Plaintiffs' Motion to Amend Complaint filed with Court.
August 18, 2004: Judge Echols grants Plaintiff's Motion for an Extension of Time for Plaintiff to respond to Defendant's Supplemental Motion to Dismiss.
August 18, 2004: Plaintiff' Frank Harris Notice of Filing Affidavit in support of Plaintiff's Reply Memorandum in Opposition to the Defendant's Motion to Dismiss.
August 18, 2004: Affidavit of Frank A. Harris
August 18, 2004: Plaintiff's Reply Memorandum in Opposition to the Defendant's Motion to Dismiss.
August 20, 2004: Defendant's Response to Plaintiff's Motion to Amend whereby Defendant will not oppose Plaintiff's Motion to Amend Complaint as a Class Action.
August 24, 2004: Plaintiff's Motion for Waiver of Defendant's Personal Jurisdiction Defense.
August 24, 2004: Plaintiff's Memorandum in support of Plaintiff's Motion for Waiver of Defendant's Personal Jurisdiction Defense.
August 24, 2004: Plaintiff's Voluntary Withdrawal of Motion to Compel Corporate Disclosure Statement with Plaintiff reserving right to object to Defendant's late filing of Corporate Disclosures Statement.
August 24, 2004: Plaintiff and Defendant make their Rule 26 (a) (1) Initial Disclosures pursuant to Court Order.
August 26, 2004: Defendant' Memorandum in Opposition to Plaintiff's Motion for Waiver of Defendant's Personal Jurisdiction Defense.
September 1, 2004: Plaintiff's Reply Memorandum in Response to the Defendnt's Memorandum in Opposition to the Plaintiff's Motion for Waiver of Defendant's Personal Jurisdiction Defense field with Court.
September 16, 2004: Motion by plaintiff to life the stay of discovery
September 20, 2004: Telephone conference with Magistrate Judge to discuss stay, if no decision on Motion to Dismiss made by this date.
September 22, 204: Memorandum in opposition by defendant Lloyds Bank, TSB to motion to lift the stay of discovery
September 24, 2004: Plaintiff's Motion for Maintenance of Action as a Class Action
September 24, 2004: Plaintiff's Memorandum in Support of Motion for Maintenance of Action as a Class Action.
September 24, 2004: Plaintiff's filing of Affidavit for Frank Harris
September 24, 2004: Affidavit of Frank A. Harris
September 24, 2004: Plaintiff's Reply Memorandum to Defendant's Memorandum in Opposition to Plaintiff's Motion to Lift Stay of Discovery
September 28, 2004: Order by Magistrate Judge Joe B. Brown: Motion to lift the stay of discovery is granted and discovery is stayed until a decision by the District Judge on the pending to dismiss. It appears that a disclosure statement has been filed. Accordingly, Motion to compel corporate disclosure statement is terminated as moot.
September 30, 2004: Order by Magistrate Judge Joe B. Brown: Magistrate Judge has discovered that there was an error in his previous order which stated that the plaintiffs' motion to lift the stay of discovery was granted. The motion is denied and discovery will be stayed until a decision by the District Judge on the pending motion to dismiss. The remainder of the order stands.
September 30, 2004: Supplemental Motion by Plaintiff for waiver of defendant's personal jurisdiction defense.
September 30, 2004: Memorandum by plaintiff in support of supplemental motion for waiver of defendant's personal jurisdiction defense (with exhibits)
October 1, 2004: Motion by defendant Lloyds Bank TSB to strike plaintiff's motion with leave to re-file the motion if necessary.
October 1, 2004: Memorandum by defendant Lloyds Bank, TSB in support of motion to strike plaintiff's motion with leave to re-file the motion if necessary.
October 6, 2004: Reply Memorandum by Plaintiff to response to motion to strike plaintiff's motion with leave to re-file the motion if necessary
October 8, 2004: Memorandum by defendant Lloyds Bank in opposition to plaintiff's supplemental motion for waiver of defandant's personal jurisdiction defense.
October 13, 2004: Reply by plaintiff to response to motion for waiver of defendant's personal jurisdiction defense.
October 19, 2004: Order by Magistrate Judge Brown: Telephone conference was requested by the parties: Telephone conference is set for 10/20/04 at 1:30 PM
October 21, 2004: Order by Magistrate Judge Brown: Telephone conference was held on 10/20/2004. After discussion with counsel, counsel for the defendant has stated that his client is self-insured for this litigation and has no other insurance. Counsel has stated that he is aware of his duty to supplement should this information turn out to be incomplete or incorrect. In view of this statement to the Court, the Magistrate sees no further action the Court needs to take at this point.
November 12, 2004: SEE THE SUMMARY OF JUDGE ECHOLS' ORDER ON THE UPDATE LINK!
November 16, 2004: Stay on Discovery lifted
Items 70 through 128

April 29, 2005: Judge denied Class Action Certification (What this means is that Lloyds TSB Bank is trying to remove everyone from the lawsuit to lower their exposure with the exception of Frank Harris. I believe this is definitely a wrong decision; therefore, I have appealed this decision in the U.S. Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. Additionally, it is said that I cannot sue for anyone who has not given me permission to do so in writing.

May 12, 2005: Plaintiff filed petition for permission to appeal in U.S. Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals.

May 18, 2005: Case Management Hearing/Intervenor Hearing

June 13, 2005: The motion to intervene has been terminated as withdrawn. The motion by the plaintiff to stay proceedings is Granted until Sixth Circuit Court rules. Judge declines to impose any stay on prejudgment interest (on deposits). All three of the above items are victories for the plaintiffs.

August 26, 2005: We have received word from the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals that the Class Certification has been denied based on the current pleadings. It will therefore be necessary to make changes if this obstacle is to be overcome.

The Judge has ruled that the law firm from New York who represent intervenors in the law suit have been terminated as participants in this litigation.

The plaintiff made motion to reopen the case. This motion was granted and all stays on proceedings are hereby lifted. A telephone conference, to be initiated by the Magistrate Judge, with the plaintiff and remaining defendant on August 31, 2005 to discuss the entry of a scheduling order and selection of a trial date for this case. This is good news!

August 31, 2005: A telephone conference between the parties and the court. Dates were set on discovery. All non-expert discovery shall be completed by January 6, 2006. Plaintiffs expert disclosure are due by February 13, 2006. Defendants expert disclosure due by March 13, 2006. Discovery of experts shall be completed by May 19, 2006. Dispositive motions shall be due June 12, 2006. Responses due no later than 28 days thereafter. Replies shall be due 14 days after response.

Final pre-trial conference will take place October 9, 2006. It is believed the trial will take at least five days. The matter is set for trial June 5, 2007.

[Arzel]

Below is information released to the other Plaintiffs in the suit against Lloyd's TBS Bank. You can see we have had a long and expensive road to get this far. It has been proven Lloyd's committed fraud and has to answer to the charges in an American Court. The damages could amount into the millions not counting the $12M misapproiated by them.

Our day in court is only a short 8 months away now. The loss occurred in 1999, and it took us this long to get it this far, now we are on the final leg of the litigation. We feel very confident in the final decision although Lloyd's was successful in eliminating many of those who lost money with them. We are appealing that now.

DATES/DEADLINES IN LLOYDS CASE

Revised 11/9/06



June 3, 2004: Lawsuit filed against Lloyds on this date in United States District Court for Middle District of Tennessee, Case No. 04-CV-468. and filing fee paid.
June 3, 2004: Notice of Initial Case Management Conference: Case Management Conference set for 11:30 7/26/04, Case referred to Magistrate Judge Joe B. Brown.
June 15, 2004: Lloyds served with process and on notice of lawsuit.
Lloyds' Law Firm: Ogletree, Deakins, Nash, Smoak, & Stewart of Nashville, Tennessee Attorney: William S. Rutchow, Esq.
June 15, 2004: Extension given to Lloyds to answer Plaintiffs' Complaint until July 12, 2004.
June16, 2004: Agreed order by Magistrate Judge Joe B. Brown that the defendant shall have until 7/12/04 to answer or respond to the complaint.
June 25, 2004: Plaintiff' Request for Admission served on Lloyds on this date. Amend Complaint by defendants; jury demand
June 28, 2004: Lloyds' Attorney Bill Rutchow request via letter that the Attorney for the Plaintiffs disclose to Lloyds, pursuant to Court Rules, the identity of the un-named Plaintiffs in the lawsuit.
July 11, 2004: Lloyds' Answer to Plaintiffs' Complaint due by this date at midnight.
July 12, 2004: Pre-Case Management conference Meeting between Plaintiffs' Attorney and Defendant's Attorney to discuss proposed Case Management Order.
July 12, 2004: Lloyds files Motion to Dismiss and Motion for Stay of Discovery at 4:02 p.m., past what Plaintiffs assert is past deadline for Lloyds to respond to Plaintiffs' Amended Complaint.
July 12, 2004: Motion by Defendant Lloyds Bank to dismiss
July 12, 2004: Notice by defendant Lloyds Bank of filing affidavit of Andrew Philip Hobbs
July 13, 2004: Plaintiffs file Motion for Default Judgment against Lloyds
July 13, 2004: Order of Magistrate Judge Joe B. Brown: Case Management Conference reset for 11:30 on 8/3/04.
July 13, 2004: Return of Service executed upon defendant Lloyds Bank on 6/3/04 by certified mail
July 14, 2004: Affidavit of Andrew Philip Hobbs
July 15, 2004: Plaintiffs file Notice of Filing of Affidavit
July 19, 2004: Lloyds files Memorandum in Opposition to Motion for Default Judgment
July 20, 2004: Plaintiffs file Motion for an Extension of Time until 7/30/04
July 22, 2004: Plaintiffs' Motion for an Extension of Time granted by Court.
July 23, 2004: Lloyds' answers and responses to Plaintiff's Interrogatories and Request for Production of Documents due by this date.
July 28, 2004: Lloyds' response to Plaintiffs' Request for Admission by this date.
July 28, 2004: Proposed case management order
July 30, 2004: Plaintiffs' Response to Lloyds' Motion to Dismiss and Motion for Stay of Discovery due by this date.
July 30, 2004: Order by Judge Robert L. Echols granting motion for leave to file sure reply in opposition to motion for default judgment. The Clerk is directed to file Sur Reply memorandum in Opposition to Motion for Default Judgment.
August 3, 2004: Case Management Conference at United States District Courthouse, Middle Tennessee at Nashville.
August 3, 2004: Default judgment against Lloyds for late filing: Denied.
August 3, 2004: Judge ordered to stay discovery from Lloyds until District Judge ruled on pending Motions to Dismiss on September 20, 2004; whichever is earlier.
August 9, 2004: Agreed Order, filed with the Court, between Plaintiffs and Defendant granting extension of time for Plaintiffs to respond to Defendant's Supplemental Motion to Dismiss until and through August 12, 2004.
August 10, 2004: Plaintiffs' Motion to Compel Corporate Disclosure Statement filed with the Court against the Defendant.
August 12, 2004: Corporate disclosure statement filed by defendant Lloyds Bank TSB.
August 12, 2004: Plaintiff's Response to the Defendant's Supplemental Motion to Dismiss.
August 12, 2004: Plaintiffs' Memorandum in Opposition to the Defendant's Supplemental Motion to Dismiss.
August 12, 2004: Plaintiffs' Amended Complaint--Class Action filed with the Court.
August 13, 2004: Plaintiffs' Motion to Amend Complaint filed with Court.
August 13, 2004: Plaintiffs' Memorandum in Support of Plaintiffs' Motion to Amend Complaint filed with Court.
August 18, 2004: Judge Echols grants Plaintiff's Motion for an Extension of Time for Plaintiff to respond to Defendant's Supplemental Motion to Dismiss.
August 18, 2004: Plaintiff' Frank Harris Notice of Filing Affidavit in support of Plaintiff's Reply Memorandum in Opposition to the Defendant's Motion to Dismiss.
August 18, 2004: Affidavit of Frank A. Harris
August 18, 2004: Plaintiff's Reply Memorandum in Opposition to the Defendant's Motion to Dismiss.
August 20, 2004: Defendant's Response to Plaintiff's Motion to Amend whereby Defendant will not oppose Plaintiff's Motion to Amend Complaint as a Class Action.
August 24, 2004: Plaintiff's Motion for Waiver of Defendant's Personal Jurisdiction Defense.
August 24, 2004: Plaintiff's Memorandum in support of Plaintiff's Motion for Waiver of Defendant's Personal Jurisdiction Defense.
August 24, 2004: Plaintiff's Voluntary Withdrawal of Motion to Compel Corporate Disclosure Statement with Plaintiff reserving right to object to Defendant's late filing of Corporate Disclosures Statement.
August 24, 2004: Plaintiff and Defendant make their Rule 26 (a) (1) Initial Disclosures pursuant to Court Order.
August 26, 2004: Defendant' Memorandum in Opposition to Plaintiff's Motion for Waiver of Defendant's Personal Jurisdiction Defense.
September 1, 2004: Plaintiff's Reply Memorandum in Response to the Defendnt's Memorandum in Opposition to the Plaintiff's Motion for Waiver of Defendant's Personal Jurisdiction Defense field with Court.
September 16, 2004: Motion by plaintiff to life the stay of discovery
September 20, 2004: Telephone conference with Magistrate Judge to discuss stay, if no decision on Motion to Dismiss made by this date.
September 22, 204: Memorandum in opposition by defendant Lloyds Bank, TSB to motion to lift the stay of discovery
September 24, 2004: Plaintiff's Motion for Maintenance of Action as a Class Action
September 24, 2004: Plaintiff's Memorandum in Support of Motion for Maintenance of Action as a Class Action.
September 24, 2004: Plaintiff's filing of Affidavit for Frank Harris
September 24, 2004: Affidavit of Frank A. Harris
September 24, 2004: Plaintiff's Reply Memorandum to Defendant's Memorandum in Opposition to Plaintiff's Motion to Lift Stay of Discovery
September 28, 2004: Order by Magistrate Judge Joe B. Brown: Motion to lift the stay of discovery is granted and discovery is stayed until a decision by the District Judge on the pending to dismiss. It appears that a disclosure statement has been filed. Accordingly, Motion to compel corporate disclosure statement is terminated as moot.
September 30, 2004: Order by Magistrate Judge Joe B. Brown: Magistrate Judge has discovered that there was an error in his previous order which stated that the plaintiffs' motion to lift the stay of discovery was granted. The motion is denied and discovery will be stayed until a decision by the District Judge on the pending motion to dismiss. The remainder of the order stands.
September 30, 2004: Supplemental Motion by Plaintiff for waiver of defendant's personal jurisdiction defense.
September 30, 2004: Memorandum by plaintiff in support of supplemental motion for waiver of defendant's personal jurisdiction defense (with exhibits)
October 1, 2004: Motion by defendant Lloyds Bank TSB to strike plaintiff's motion with leave to re-file the motion if necessary.
October 1, 2004: Memorandum by defendant Lloyds Bank, TSB in support of motion to strike plaintiff's motion with leave to re-file the motion if necessary.
October 6, 2004: Reply Memorandum by Plaintiff to response to motion to strike plaintiff's motion with leave to re-file the motion if necessary
October 8, 2004: Memorandum by defendant Lloyds Bank in opposition to plaintiff's supplemental motion for waiver of defandant's personal jurisdiction defense.
October 13, 2004: Reply by plaintiff to response to motion for waiver of defendant's personal jurisdiction defense.
October 19, 2004: Order by Magistrate Judge Brown: Telephone conference was requested by the parties: Telephone conference is set for 10/20/04 at 1:30 PM
October 21, 2004: Order by Magistrate Judge Brown: Telephone conference was held on 10/20/2004. After discussion with counsel, counsel for the defendant has stated that his client is self-insured for this litigation and has no other insurance. Counsel has stated that he is aware of his duty to supplement should this information turn out to be incomplete or incorrect. In view of this statement to the Court, the Magistrate sees no further action the Court needs to take at this point.
November 12, 2004: SEE THE SUMMARY OF JUDGE ECHOLS' ORDER ON THE UPDATE LINK!
November 16, 2004: Stay on Discovery lifted
Items 70 through 128

April 29, 2005: Judge denied Class Action Certification (What this means is that Lloyds TSB Bank is trying to remove everyone from the lawsuit to lower their exposure with the exception of Frank Harris. I believe this is definitely a wrong decision; therefore, I have appealed this decision in the U.S. Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. Additionally, it is said that I cannot sue for anyone who has not given me permission to do so in writing.

May 12, 2005: Plaintiff filed petition for permission to appeal in U.S. Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals.

May 18, 2005: Case Management Hearing/Intervenor Hearing

June 13, 2005: The motion to intervene has been terminated as withdrawn. The motion by the plaintiff to stay proceedings is Granted until Sixth Circuit Court rules. Judge declines to impose any stay on prejudgment interest (on deposits). All three of the above items are victories for the plaintiffs.

August 26, 2005: We have received word from the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals that the Class Certification has been denied based on the current pleadings. It will therefore be necessary to make changes if this obstacle is to be overcome.

The Judge has ruled that the law firm from New York who represent intervenors in the law suit have been terminated as participants in this litigation.

The plaintiff made motion to reopen the case. This motion was granted and all stays on proceedings are hereby lifted. A telephone conference, to be initiated by the Magistrate Judge, with the plaintiff and remaining defendant on August 31, 2005 to discuss the entry of a scheduling order and selection of a trial date for this case. This is good news!

August 31, 2005: A telephone conference between the parties and the court. Dates were set on discovery. All non-expert discovery shall be completed by January 6, 2006. Plaintiffs expert disclosure are due by February 13, 2006. Defendants expert disclosure due by March 13, 2006. Discovery of experts shall be completed by May 19, 2006. Dispositive motions shall be due June 12, 2006. Responses due no later than 28 days thereafter. Replies shall be due 14 days after response.

Final pre-trial conference will take place October 9, 2006. It is believed the trial will take at least five days. The matter is set for trial June 5, 2007.


I was unable to find any reference to a case "04-CV-468" which would appear to be related to what you are talking about.

[coppertop]

This is all I have, but will update as time goes by. I'll learn more about it. I just know that Clayton is involved up to his neck.

That case number is what I have, but could reference a filing or something. I'll get the exact numbers when I can.

Look up some of the names mentioned, you will fiind them to be in the area of the litigation. I can only verify the case is real and Clayton is involved. After this case, I believe he has chased everyone down that were involved in the loss that he and others suffered. Everyone involved needs to thank him and this other gentleman for carrying this forward to the end.

If Clayton gets involved with you in a High Yielding Investment Venture, you had better make sure you honor your side of the transaction. He ties the knots tight and they don't come lose until you either hang yourself or he cuts you loose. Lloyd's TSB is finding that out now.

Like I said, I'll get you the exact name on the docket and the case number. I'll come across some papers as they come in.

Sorry about the "forced bankruptsey" in Atlanta ... I'll get that name as well.

Like I said, as time goes along, all the presumptions made about Clayton will come to FULL LIGHT. He is nothing like the pictures painted about him here. I do know he won't take any thing off anyone who doesn't know what they are talking about and are ignorant in nature. He is compashionate when you tug at his heart strings ... and the two ladies that posted here with their stories did that. He ended up sending both of them $500 each.

There are several others that he told not to come to any forum and post because their thanks on the phone were enough.

I'll make a guess here that before it's all over, Dreamer will get something if not the full amount that was quoted, I don't know, but I do know Clayton. When the time is right something will happen. Wait and see! Right now, Clayton is with his wife right now because she is sick and in somekind of pain.

Any "believers" that can read might say a prayer. But, I would presume that is a lost cause here at this forum to even ask.

How about me starting a link about what Clayton is doing in a proven transaction. That is if it's OK! I know this is a SCAM forum, and don't want to start post about things that aren't SCAMS if you don't approve of it. Let me know, you can prove it yourself with documents, phone numbers and names, bank records, deads and otherthings.

AGAIN THAT IS IF IT'S OK!

Seems Clayton is an interesting topic, I thought it might be interesting to see something you can prove happened or will happen at some point.

Let me know.

GG



GG

[Webwatch]

This is all I have, but will update as time goes by. I'll learn more about it. I just know that Clayton is involved up to his neck.Thanks for all the information-but we need something concrete to not only prove this case even excists but also of Claytons participation in it. A link would be a good start and please don't tell us this is on a need to know basis as cases like this should be on public record.

That case number is what I have, but could reference a filing or something. I'll get the exact numbers when I can.The sooner the better.

Look up some of the names mentioned, you will fiind them to be in the area of the litigation.This does seem to be correct-but you knew that already.

I can only verify the case is real and Clayton is involved.Thats just heresay, please supply links or more verifiable information.

After this case, I believe he has chased everyone down that were involved in the loss that he and others suffered. Everyone involved needs to thank him and this other gentleman for carrying this forward to the end.

We will have to wait and see, as the case if it excists has no final verdict just yet.

If Clayton gets involved with you in a High Yielding Investment Venture, you had better make sure you honor your side of the transaction. He ties the knots tight and they don't come lose until you either hang yourself or he cuts you loose. Lloyd's TSB is finding that out now.Its unlikely anyone here would consider joining Clayton in any of his schemes and the way he considers HYIP'ers to be around cavemen level doesn't bode well for good customer relations. Knots?? would that be a sheepshank or reef knot.

Like I said, I'll get you the exact name on the docket and the case number. I'll come across some papers as they come in.This would be appreciated.

Sorry about the "forced bankruptsey" in Atlanta ... I'll get that name as well.This would be appreciated also.

Like I said, as time goes along, all the presumptions made about Clayton will come to FULL LIGHT. He is nothing like the pictures painted about him here.We have heard this before, but please realise Clayton paints his own picture.

I do know he won't take any thing off anyone who doesn't know what they are talking about and are ignorant in nature. He is compashionate when you tug at his heart strings ... and the two ladies that posted here with their stories did that. He ended up sending both of them $500 each.Again the way Clayton portrays himself is his own doing and sees anyone who doesn't agree with him as ignorant, this will ultimately be his own downfall.

There are several others that he told not to come to any forum and post because their thanks on the phone were enough. Extremely unlikely as Clayton almost beggs members of other forums to post here.

I'll make a guess here that before it's all over, Dreamer will get something if not the full amount that was quoted, I don't know, but I do know Clayton. When the time is right something will happen. Wait and see!This is all Clayton has to do in order to be taken fairly seriously.

Right now, Clayton is with his wife right now because she is sick and in somekind of pain.I hope she recovers soon.

Any "believers" that can read might say a prayer. But, I would presume that is a lost cause here at this forum to even ask.Maybe but it doesn't hurt to ask.

How about me starting a link about what Clayton is doing in a proven transaction. That is if it's OK! I know this is a SCAM forum, and don't want to start post about things that aren't SCAMS if you don't approve of it. Let me know, you can prove it yourself with documents, phone numbers and names, bank records, deads and otherthings. I wouldn't reccomend this just yet as the only proof I need is for Dreamer to be paid as promised.

Seems Clayton is an interesting topic, I thought it might be interesting to see something you can prove happened or will happen at some point.

Let me know.

GGFairly interesting for me but even my attention span is starting to wain a little.

[Gringo]

How about me starting a link about what Clayton is doing in a proven transaction.If by "transaction" you mean him giving away money, that is worthless with regards to determining if he is operating a ponzi.

As stated before, the common strategy for ponzi scammers is to spread some cash around as bait in order to gain confidence. In essence to "prove" that he/she is honest/caring/legitimate.

Once the confidence is gained, people willingly give the scammer their money and recruit others.

If you really want to prove Clayton is not operating a ponzi, forget about telling us all the money he gives away. Tell us exactly how he generates 25% monthly returns or whatever the number is, and how he does it without risk. Provide proof.

The fact is, those types of high yields without risk don't exist. That is why he has never provided proof.

[scgold]

This is all I have, but will update as time goes by. I'll learn more about it. I just know that Clayton is involved up to his neck.

That case number is what I have, but could reference a filing or something. I'll get the exact numbers when I can.


Like I said, I'll get you the exact name on the docket and the case number. I'll come across some papers as they come in.
GG

Although I am not one of the "eyes" I have been following the various threads in this forum. Perhaps I can provide the information regarding the case of the investors versus Lloyd's TSB Bank PLC.

The details are as follows:
In the Federal Civil Court of the Middle District of TN
Case number: 04-cv-00486 Harris et al v. Lloyds TSB Bank
Date Filed: 06/03/2004
Reopened: 08/25/2005
Date of Last Filing: 01/19/2007
Lawyers representing Frank Harris and other plaintiffs are Mark T. Freeman (615) 352-8447 and Steven G. Fuller (615) 868-4328
while the Lloyds TSB Bank is represented by Ogletree, Deakins, Smoke and Nash - the insurance division located in New York.

If you have access to PACER (Public Access to the Federal Court System) you can enter the case number in the Middle District of TN and have access to all the records entered into the entire case including the Docket Register since the first day. There is a charge of $.08 per page, but if you are trully interested it is all there for the record.

In my experience with the Federal Civil Courts (I am not an attorney, but my work involves the bankruptcy courts in all 93 Federal Districts) there is usually a two year time frame for resolution of the lawsuits. Therefore, the date set for June would probably be the start of the last round of court sessions and still be within the two year time frame (case reopened August 25, 2005).

Hope that provides enough background and a location to look for further details on the Lloyds TSB Bank case.
scgold

[scgold]

I was unable to find any reference to a case "04-CV-468" which would appear to be related to what you are talking about.

Arzel:
If you enter the PACER system and go to the civil court section under the Middle District of TN, the case number to enter for access is: 04-00468.

The first two digits in the case number represent the year of the original filing and the last five are actually the case number assigned by the court.

scgold

[Webwatch]

Thanks scgold.
Now all we need is to confirm Clayton on the list of plaintiffs and job done.

[coppertop]

Thank you folks for pulling this up. It made me look like I was making something up.

But, you can believe me, I won't mislead you in what I say.

I know it's all hearsay until it's proven, but when the "light shines through", Clayton's name will be cleared.

I know of no other person that has done as much to make the past right than him. You folks are skeptical, Clayton is even more so and that is why he doesn't take crap off people because so many are depending upon him that he will hold your feet to the fire.

Yes, he has many people who would do anything for him because he is a man of his word. One person can't work a program, but ONE man takes all the blame when it fails due to others actions. He isn't a hard man, but mean what you say, and say what you mean, and do what's right.

WEBWATCH

I can assure you that Clayton is a plaintiff in the suit. And, I won't lead you wrong.

I just looked, the name of the court in Augusta, GA is with Mr. Ben Weathers. A forced bankruptsey was done. The court is now sending out the paperwork to get it settled.

Another settlement was already received.

Two are in jail. I'm NOT going to give out those names, Clayton said to NEVER mention their names to anyone. Let them do their time and go on with their lives.

I believe it's just about over from the past. The future is completely different and the lady that has the millions in offshore investment does make 35%+++ per month. I've seen the deposits and divided the ..... well, it's up there.

GG

[sisco50]

Pretty sure,??? Are you? Is this just a CAVEMAN opinion. NO proof!

Let's hope you don't depend on "WHAT YOU KNOW" on information found at this forum.

You will be a looser the rest of your life.

GG

LOL Yeah! Real sure now! If you had read all of my post you would have seen that I hadn't given the subject much time or effort to that point. But as of now that is changed. People constantly on the defensive, such as yourself, reveal everything that I need to know about this subject matter. I see you speak of proof. lol Why do I have to prove anything to you? I would think if nothing else you should be providing proof since you are in the know. Good luck in accomplishing that. :)

Not to worry about me being a loser all my life. Maybe you should start to worry about yourself a bit at this point? I don't know too many winners pushing scams and scammers. :)

[sisco50]

If by "transaction" you mean him giving away money, that is worthless with regards to determining if he is operating a ponzi.

As stated before, the common strategy for ponzi scammers is to spread some cash around as bait in order to gain confidence. In essence to "prove" that he/she is honest/caring/legitimate.

Once the confidence is gained, people willingly give the scammer their money and recruit others.

If you really want to prove Clayton is not operating a ponzi, forget about telling us all the money he gives away. Tell us exactly how he generates 25% monthly returns or whatever the number is, and how he does it without risk. Provide proof.

The fact is, those types of high yields without risk don't exist. That is why he has never provided proof.

I have already wished coppertop good luck in providing the proof. Not gonna happen!

[sisco50]

35%+ per month. I'll be waiting a long time to see that proven to anyone's satisfaction. :)

[Dreamer]

How about me starting a link about what Clayton is doing in a proven transaction.

There is no reason to even consider this. All scams are built on initially gaining the trust of people. That is how it works.

If I scam one person for $10, thats not that much of a scam. If I pay off that person and let people know how wonderful of a deed i have just done, then maybe a couple more people will come aboard "Hey, maybe this guy is the real deal". Then i pay them off, and now i have more supporters and more and more people are thinking i have that money tree growing in the backyard.

There eventually comes a time where the scam comes crashing down and i've made alot of money off the late comers that didnt make anything based on the early promotions of those i paid off. And, if i was extra greedy, i would be skimming money off every person, like 22% like some other scams.

So, if Clayton is indeed this great and wonderful person he doesnt need these testimonals or threads praising his wonderous deeds of paying off people from 7 years ago. Talk about a 7 year itch.

I recommend if he is so full of himself and wants to see people shouting his praises, that he should create his own forums so he can read it over and over again himself.

[Dreamer]

because he is a man of his word.

Maybe i misunderstood when he said he'll send me a check in September? Hmmm...

Now, lets do some math here.

Clayton can earn 35% a month since he got out of prison 15 years ago. So, if he put in 1 lousy dollar that first day out and "let it ride"

Month 0: $1
Month 1: $1.35
Month 2: $1.82
Month 3: $2.46
Month 6: $4.48
Year 1: $27.14
Year 2: $994.66
Year 3: $36,448.69
Year 4: $1,335,632.93
Year 5: $48,943,197.78
Year 10: $3,233,839,421,413,440.00
Year 15: $213,670,497,206,539,000,000,000.00

With that kind of a return from 15 years, why does he need people to send him money?

The $1,000 Clayton promised me in September has been earning him 35% a month for 4 months, so I think its fair if Clayton is a man of his word to send me $2,460 in January. February it will grow to $3,320.

[coppertop]

In your case Dreamer, Clayton is NOT going to be a man of his word.

So, let it go!

You will never be in the loop!

GG

[Webwatch]

In your case Dreamer, Clayton is NOT going to be a man of his word.

So, let it go!

You will never be in the loop!

GG

Oh dear its multiple personailitys again.
I'll make a guess here that before it's all over, Dreamer will get something if not the full amount that was quoted, I don't know, but I do know Clayton. When the time is right something will happen. Wait and see! Right now, Clayton is with his wife right now because she is sick and in somekind of pain.

[coppertop]

This is GG,

Not multiple personalities just multiple people expressing their thoughts to keep you confused. You seem to forget that we all have eachothers login information. I took over CT's login. We use Redthum in every forum we can, and where we can't we use other login information.

My opinion ... Dreamer is in a position to give you people something to cling to which someone would eventually say Clayton is trying to buy his way in just like Dreamer said, get their favor then steal from them.

That bring us to the conclusion - Dreamer will Not receive anything for any reason. I was at the meeting where he was voted down.

Again, I may be wrong, but at first I thought he might get something, but now I'm not so sure the guy is a loser in my opinion.

Right now, Clayton is busy with other things that are beneficial to people who for one reason or another have found themselves in a rut and need just a small amount of money to pull them out of a pinch.

What happens when one goes to a bank and loses the money and comes here to thank Clayton is another story.

Clayton doesn't beg people to come here, many of the "eyes" do that on their own and make post at sites to ask for a post here or there.

You folks really don't know Clayton L. Parker do you? You like to attack people because that is what this forum is all about. You are like little old ladies sneaking around talking about people and trying to dig up dirt on them. You don't even believe what is so evident and put in your face.

Like the lady that posted said, "they are so stupid" and don't know it!

I'm waiting until the chip bank cards arrive, I'll get an ATM receipt from Clayton and post it on a web page and give ONLY one of you 10 minutes to review it and I'll lock you out. Then you can come back here and tell others what you saw, and let the rest of them call you a liar!

The balance should mean something even if it's Clayton scammed alot of people. Make up your stories and lies and keep the crap flying.

At any rate, some very poor people are being helped regardless of where the money came from, and a prominent law firm is watching his every move to see that he is legal on all aspects. No, you don't have a need to know, and I'm not going to tell you.

The Lloyd's bank case is real. You will just have to prove it yourself. I think I gave enough information for some "astute" person that reads this forum to fill in the blanks. Most of you are not astute, and it's evident.

It's really simple, "so simple even an caveman could do it", but again you have to be as mentally competant as a caveman to figure it out.

GG

[Dreamer]

There are no "eyes" In fact here is the list of names that Clayton is using to post everywhere:

TSGc
Cohort2u
dulcinea
proberts123
coppertop
scgold

He has used
TSGc
Cl8ton
Ima
Imabeliver
Believer

Do your own research search for thesamgroup, clayton l parker, any of those names, and you wont get many people promoting it. Just these few.

[coppertop]

Let's see,
TSGc - Clayton
Cohort2u = Mr. AR
dulcinea = Ms. T
proberts123 = Mr. PR
coppertop = GG & CT
scgold = Out of S.C.
Cl8ton = Clayton
Ima = Clayton's daughter
Beliver = Screen name here
ImaBeliever = Lady next door

What is he promoting? I think you will find he is looking for old BI-II members. He is in the final steps of recouping the funds that others stole and he is keeping the government out and keeping further loss. The final law suits are close to an end. If it weren't for him, there would never be a refund by those that won the suit like the government.

He isn't promoting his group to people that don't have a claim. When he was here as "Believer" he was setting up a plan to qualify people to receive the help using funds the "principal" wanted to give away as her tithe. She gave him certain stipulations to qualify a person, so he did the best he could and has plans set up.

Where the funds come from and what is being earned on them isn't a concern to Clayton, he has to work within the limits of The Believers Trust. I have seen the proceeds deposit slips and they are upwards of $600K per month. If that is 35% of something, then it is. If it's 10% of something, then it is. If it's 5% of something, then it is. It doesn't matter how you figure it. The proceeds are a percentage of something based upon what is in the investment. All I can tell is there are over $1.8M in the trust NOW!. There will be over $2.5M when Clayton takes over the 1st of February. He will add all the receipts from the litigation as they come in to the trust funds and distribute them to those who make claim that he is searching for. If not, then he will work his plans and give it away. As for me, I'm glad he is in charge of it. He did it his way, and got it done. Maybe it could have been done another way and even quicker, but the way it is turning out is very well done, and is coming along good.

Can you help bring forward the VICTIMS so Clayton can make it right. Help us find them. Clayton want to send them their share. He did it for them and himself. Now he wants to send them their share! Do I have to say it again?

Clayton can be called a scammer or liar as you look at his plans and other things you don't know anything about; but, for him to look for those that CALIM TO BE "HIS" VICTIM shows some honorable intentions on his part.

Call him what you want, he doesn't care, but his name will be cleared IF the so called victims will come forth. If they don't he could keep the money, and it will be multi-millions when it's over, or he will give it away while others let him help them to help themselves. He is NOT just going to GIVE IT AWAY that I do know.

Let's use Dreamers calculations:

Let's say Clayton has access to 5M at say 10% per month. Is that realistic?
Let's just say 5% per month is your realistic thinking. That means $250K per month to be arriving into the trust.

Now, let's say clayton is paying 11.3% in a plan.

Now, $250K is 11.3% of WHAT AMOUNT?

Well, we know 10% is $2.5M working. But, right now, the Trust has over $4M working, so that leaves a residual for safety.

QUESTION: How many people could he help using that amount of money and accepting funds from them as a deposit?

Are you following me here? I would say he could handle over 1,000 members just to remain on an even keil.

He could set up an account for the individual to deposit his funds and have FULL control to remove the funds when he or she wanted.

He could accept upwards of 100% of the working funds and be able to stay ahead of the payouts and still make money. All it takes is someone honest to run the plans, and Clayton fits that bill to a T.

Dreamers calculations is compounding for 15 years with no deductions. That is unrealistic and moronic thought expressions.

Yes, it is possible that a portion of the funds could be left to compound for a time, but the trading entity moves the monies to programs that have to higher entry amounts. They have $500M plans that pay unimaginable returns but those plans are associated with building war torn areas and other projects. Clayton has DETERMINEDLY asked the traders NOT to participate in FED PROGRAMS. Those people are below "cavemen" and are greedy.

Once the trading dollar amount reaches $50M, it will either STOP completely, or a much reduced amount will start all over and do it again.

It will not work like Dreamer shows that goes on and on forever!

Again, the percentage is unimportant.

10% of $10M is $1M
20% of $5M is 1M
xx% of $XM is 1M

Does it matter what percentage generates the $600K per month? At any rate, $600K per month is arriving to the trust. That is what is earmarked to be given away in Clayton's programs. He MUST give it away! And, he is gearing up to do it HIS WAY! Do you see, the 35% is unrealistic to you folks, so reduce it to fit your "thought pattern" of reality! Whatever that percentage is ='s $600K per month sent to the trust fund on a monthly basis month after month. The principal is just a dollar amount that works at a percentage rate that ='s $600K per month. You fill in the blanks. What arrives to The Believers Trust is still $600K per month. Clayton say's that is 30% of the full proceeds being earned as that is the amount the principal wants for him to disburse. Forget the dollar amount in trade, forget the percentage rate, forget the 30%of the gross earnings, and keep in mind the end results being sent to the trust is $600K and that is a FACT! And, it is earmarked to be GIVEN AWAY. I suspect he will disbursel every red cent as it pertains to his plans that he has set up.

He has no reason to steal from anyone - why should he? He has access to more than he could ever spend or his grandkids could spend. And, Kadie is too young to be spending too much just yet. But Clayton will spend a pretty penny on her before she's old enough to shop by herself. She is a cutie and smaarrrttt! You wouldn't believe it.

Take it for what it's worth, and it's worth a lot to many, and the few cavemen that haven't discovered fire yet to read the writing on the stone will have to wait until fire is discovered at this forum.

GG

[sisco50]

A whole lot of blah blah blah and hogwash to boot. lol Now the percentage is no longer 35% and doesn't matter what it is to produce those monthly profits. Wow This is really some world we live in and we are to stupid to even know it. But a caveman knows it. That's rich! :) What moronic typing will I get to read next? The man on the moon gets it but we don't? ROTFALMAO

[coppertop]

This is really some world we live in and we are to stupid to even know it.

I agree with you about the STUPID part! But, you shouldn't be so hard on "Dreamer", he can't help it. He's beating his head over it already!

It's only funny to cavemen! Cavemen like you find simple things funny, and the simplier they are the more they laugh.

It's so simple to understand that a Caveman can figure it out!

GG

P.S. There is not a man on the moon, don't let anyone tell you different.

[sisco50]

I agree with you about the STUPID part! But, you shouldn't be so hard on "Dreamer", he can't help it. He's beating his head over it already!

It's only funny to cavemen! Cavemen like you find simple things funny, and the simplier they are the more they laugh.

It's so simple to understand that a Caveman can figure it out!

GG

P.S. There is not a man on the moon, don't let anyone tell you different.

hehehehe That's enough of this crap for me. Mr. Iggy says he is ready to take over now. One does not have to read this type of nonsense with all the intelligent facts out there on the net. lol

[Gringo]

Does it matter what percentage generates the $600K per month? At any rate, $600K per month is arriving to the trust. That is what is earmarked to be given away in Clayton's programs. He MUST give it away! Back to the charity donation thing again. Look, we've already hashed through this with "Believer".

This approach of posting on HIYP and anti-HIYP forums looking for suitable people to hand money out to, makes about as much sense as the 35% monthly returns. It's a totally irrational way to donate to charity, assuming that is the intent.

On the other hand, if the intent is to bait people into giving him money for his ponzi, then it makes perfect sense.

[coppertop]

Back to the charity donation thing again. Look, we've already hashed through this with "Believer".

This approach of posting on HIYP and anti-HIYP forums looking for suitable people to hand money out to, makes about as much sense as the 35% monthly returns. It's a totally irrational way to donate to charity, assuming that is the intent.

On the other hand, if the intent is to bait people into giving him money for his ponzi, then it makes perfect sense.

It's not a donation charity thingie again! And, no one is hashing through it with you. Read the topic of this discussion.

And posting on a forum that ALLOWS starting a thread with an insult against clayton is a personal insult. His friends come here and you say, "we are insulting YOU!" What a joke!

What qualifies you to say what is achievable in the high finance world? Is it just because you are a member of an "ANTI-SCAM FORUM'? Does that "qualify" you to to PROVE it's NOT achievable? You know, it really doesn't matter what your uneducated thinking concludes about what goes on in the REAL world, YOU 'work for a living', and don't qualify to do much more than be among the group that will reach retirement with the average $500 in savings.

You have no idea what "intent" is! And, it's so simple even a caveman can figure it out!

Now, how about making a request to take down the TOPIC TITLE that is a direct insult to a fine individual.

Only a caveman would allow such a topic, then send a PM saying, "Please stop making direct insults to others!

Clayton thinks it's funny, he even posted something about it that even you folks can understand. He directed the INSULT at all of you as a GROUP, and not on an individual basis.

It's funny read it! Then come back here and complaign about it ... you are two faced anyway ... ALL OF YOU!

http://goldentalk.com/showthread.html?p=107700#post107700

GG

[Dreamer]

There is no proof anywhere that any of these people exist, and in fact in another forum he was also accused of being multiple personalities. Not only that, he is pretending to be his daughter on his on screen name sometimes.

Even if these people existed thats a far cry from all the eyes you are saying exists. There is like 3 or 4 forums and like 4 screen names.

and if you read any of those postings they all sound familiar...within time they'll all start insulting whomever

[Gringo]

It's not a donation charity thingie again!It most certainly is. This talk about giving away $600K/mo. is the same charity giveaway that he was talking about months ago.
And posting on a forum that ALLOWS starting a thread with an insult against clayton is a personal insult. It's not an insult if it's true, and claiming to give away $600K/mo. only to "believers", earning 35%/mo. without risk, etc. is most certainly lies. No proof was every provided to the contrary.What qualifies you to say what is achievable in the high finance world? Is it just because you are a member of an "ANTI-SCAM FORUM'? Does that "qualify" you to to PROVE it's NOT achievable?My MBA in financial management qualifies me, but it's not even necessary to have that level of education since common sense will tell you that 35% monthly returns with no risk is not an investment that would be peddeled around on the internet, much less pro or anti HIYP sites. A yield of 35% per YEAR with no risk would attract billions in capital.

Furthermore, it's not up to me to prove something that defies common sense to be true, it's up to the person making the wild claims.

[coppertop]

Dreamer, you are an insult to your own race. Cavemen would evict you from their clan. But, "redneck" cavement would welcome you.

Can you prove any of what you are saying? Or is it just an uneducated opinion? And, what is the point anyway? It's obvious that your mentality isn't astute enough to do much more than presume what you don't know or prove. I've given the persons and screen names in a post. Go read it and work from there, you'll find the truth.

As for Clayton's daughter, you'll find "the acorn didn't fall too far from the tree? She will find you and rip you to shreads in court if need be. If it weren't for her, a lot of the evidence against those that stole from her father would not have been dug up. She is a "hell-cat" from HELL if you cross her.

Let's start a topic: Dreamer is an "uneducated liar"! Would that be a personal insult to you? Well, probably not, because the TRUTH isn't an insult, now is it?

The admin here allows personal insults on people and then PM's me to ask me to not make direct personal insults to you! What a "two-faced hypocrit" you people are. Is that a personal insult or a group insult. You can dish it out, but can't take it! So, I'll honor your request to stop "personal" insults.

Dreamer, all I've said about you isn't a personal insult, insults have to be lower than what a person is, and I only gave my opinion of you way above what you are. Can you forgive me?

GG

[coppertop]

Gringo,

My MBA in financial management qualifies me, but it's not even necessary to have that level of education since common sense will tell you that 35% monthly returns with no risk is not an investment that would be peddeled around on the internet, much less pro or anti HIYP sites. A yield of 35% per YEAR with no risk would attract billions in capital.

Would you kindly prove the claim you have a MBA in "government taught" financial management. Your post makes claims that is just a post that defies comon sence that someone with your education would be posting at a forum like this. I believe you are lying and it needs to be proven. Please refrain from using "education" to qualify yourself to make a post. It's a "personal" insult to the rest of the people that post here.

I'll be awaiting the proof to be posted so as to prove your "QUALIFICATION" to post using that as your stance on the subject.

Thanks,

GG

[Arzel]

Coppertop has been banned for 2 days to cool off and refrain from personal attacks.

[Webwatch]

Coppertop-This is the difference between Gringo and Yourself.

You see Gringo is not asking me or anyone else to send any money to him or build his character up by making promises of paying people involved in other scams their money.

Also Gringo has not promised Dreamer any money and then not delivered on that promise.

Can you tell the difference yet-I doubt it but let me continue.

Clayton first came here to promote a scheme that was not only so far fetched and unacheivable that it was extremely amusing at the time.

When the going got a little tuff he resorted to weak insults, silly jokes and ridiculous hyperthetical situations-remember the rattlesnake/cat fur farm scenario.

So as History is starting to repeat itself now you try to deflect attention from your own shortcomings by trying to ridicule others.

You know as well as I do that any scam Clayton tries to start will have potential members doing google searches for him which will bring them here and they will be able to see for themselves how untrustworthy with their money he truly is.

Claytons only hope is to live up to his promises which at the moment he has not.

He could also do with taking a course on web design as all his text based web pages look like they have been designed by a 14 year old (not an insult an obvious observation) and before you ask I couldn't do any better but I'm not after anyones cash.

So if Gringo says he has an MBA thats good enough for me.

See you in a couple of days Coppertop or use one of your other screen names if need be.

[Gringo]

Would you kindly prove the claim you have a MBA in "government taught" financial management. My education or qualification on judging investments isn't the issue here. You asked for my qualification and I gave it to you. I also stated my education level was not important since it doesn't take an MBA to detect a ponzi. Again simple common sense shows that 35% monthly returns would need ZERO outside investor contributions.

As Clayton did before you, you avoid the issue of providing any sort of support that you are involved in any sort of investment program that is not a scam or ponzi.

Clayton's excuse was that "it's on a need to know basis", or "it's a secret", or "you have to be qualified first". What's your excuse?

[Dreamer]

You can start up a thread calling me an uneducated liar. Just make sure you do what i have done and quote me directly to show where i am a liar.

Of course, to lie is to know the truth and say something other then the truth. Where have i lied? At best i have made some accusations that fit the bill. And, if im still awake in a bit i'll do some more cutting and pasting to further show where my opinions are coming from.

Uneducated? I'm one year shy of getting my degree in Business Economics, and another year after that of getting my MBA. I am 2 classes shy of getting my associates degree in computer programming and 1 class shy i need to transfer to get my econ degree. So, im not quite sure exactly at what level you consider uneducated is.

[seeingeye]

Did you fill-out an application?

Maybe you were paid, and are afraid to post here because others would not believe you. Were you?

I was paid, and expect to be criticized for saying so.

Marshall

[littleroundman]

As for Clayton's daughter, you'll find "the acorn didn't fall too far from the tree? She will find you and rip you to shreads in court if need be.

As an irregular poster here, I'd like to offer myself as a "sacrificial lamb" for "ripping to shreads(sic) in court.

If "coppertop", "Clayton" or his "daughter" would be so kind as to contact his/her attorney and ascertain exactly what degree of insult would be acceptable, I will immediately start a new thread repeating said "insult" or "lies" in large, bolded letters, so they cannot be missed.

I also promise to supply said attorney with my real name and address, and a copy of my birth certificate, to enable prompt and efficient service of any court notices resulting from publishing of the abovementioned "insults"

I've cleared my calendar for all of next month, so, I'll leave my appearance date up to "Clayton" and his legal crew.

By the way, I like the use of the "acorn" reference.

Some say "The mighty oak, from little acorns grows"

Others may think: "When you mention acorns, you're talking about a bunch of little nuts with delusions of grandeur"

[sisco50]

" Others may think: "When you mention acorns, you're talking about a bunch of little nuts with delusions of grandeur" "

Very good. I'll have to remember that one. :)

[seeingeye]

" Others may think: "When you mention acorns, you're talking about a bunch of little nuts with delusions of grandeur" "

Very good. I'll have to remember that one. :)


And, then there are those that can see the real meaning. Well, maybe not at this forum as you have so proven.


Littleroundman, I would think if you insulted Mr. Parker, the court would laugh him out of court once they found out you were a member of this forum. The creditability wouldn't fit the insult I don't believe.

I can see that no one that post has read the pages that explain the concept of what his plans entail. A 35% reward is different than a 35% return, and you still can't prove it's a "pozi" or "ponzi" scheme using his "cash flow chart".

A ponzi requires HIM to pay you back using other peoples money. He clearly says he will not pay you back. It's ILLEGAL for him to pay you back so he doesn't. Is that hard to understand? I would presume so here!

An investment would require him to MOVE the funds to an offshore company since that is where the PROFITS are sent back to you from. He clearly says there is no connection from on to off. So, that does away with the investment theory.

Can you explain to me, I'm rather dense in understanding the arguement you are making, HOW the funds sent to people from offshore makes it an investment or ponzi scheme using his cash flow chart?

In the first place, the money he took did not reach the investment by him sending from on to offshore! His cash flow chart shows that.

In the second place, he did not pay anyone back with "on" shore money.

My conclusion is IF the trust exists, and I received money from it, so "I" know it exists, where, how, and who placed it in the OFFSHORE trust to begin with?

Looking at the cash flow chart, I see a trading bank sending PROFITS to the trust to be given away. Well, the funds must be derived from someplace other than Mr. P moving funds to either of them. Like he says, a 3rd party is involved.

In order to prove a ponzi, he would have to send money to others from his personal account. In order to prove an investment, he would have to move funds from - on one side of the ocean to another side of the ocean since the payments are derived from the side the investment is on and that is "off" shore. Those records do not exist! A bank would pick up on it very quickly.

I don't see a ponzi, and I don't see an investment. And, I certainly don't see where you can't see that 35% of a "deposit" by me or someone else is not achievable as long as it is within the limits of the trust fund to work.

Let me, without arguement, use an example.

Let's suppose it's true that $100K is being sent by a 3rd entity on a monthly basis to be given away for whatever reason.

Let's also suppose that I deposit $10K using one of his plans.

So, at 35% per month I could receive $3,500.00 per month. That leaves $96,500 in the trust that month. The cash flow chart shows the money I receive is a REWARD taken out of the trust funds earmarked to be given away.

Each month, the trust receives another $100K earmarked to be given away.

As long as the limits of the trust are not reached based upon the 35% reward as he calles it, and is not over extended, 35% is very achievable achievable but NOT by investment means.

Another thing to look at is this - $1M at 10% per month will derive 100K. He claims $3.4M and at 3% per month will derive $100K. And I believe he does not have enough participants to deplete $100K of funds per month he can not use in any other way except GIVE IT AWAY.

These figures are conservative because he claims a much larger percentage arriving to the trust on a monthly basis. Before he could ever take in funds to equate to a 35% out-lay of $600K per month from the trust, he would be so far ahead that he would NEVER be able to catch up to get behind. Even at $100K arriving per month he will be so far ahead in another 3 or 4 months that he will still not be able to get behind unless he raised the 35% to 100% or more just to catch up so he COULD get behind.

Using ponzi strategy, getting in early is a fairly safe bet. I'm in, my Mom is in and ahead a whole bunch already. I'll stay in close contact and listen for warning signs at the chat room. But as for now. Yes, my Mom is very proud of me!

I don't get paid to promote, and it's not up to me to approve you or your application. Mine was approved in the Silent Private Partnership Plan. And, yes, in my mind, I think of it as an investment, and it works SIMILAR to an investment, but I can see it ISN'T an investment at all. It is a new concept that should be used more with charities or church giving.

I'm pleased to pass along my knowledge and dealing with the sam group. A prudent person has to find his own way and read through the BS posted here without proof. I proved to myself using my own due diligence and didn't take anyone's advise found at this forum. You expose scams, and it was something that most of you said that struck me strange about Mr. P that just didn't fit right. That made me want to find the truth. And what I found was very different.

I still would like to know if the guy named Dreamer filled out an application with them. I'm getting more curious now. And, I have to have that NEED filled. Well?

My IP address is with Hughes Net. It's one of those sky things and I would presume it would show someplace. I don't know why you would want it anyway but that is my uplink. I live in Arizona where the only thing you see more than people is SNAKES.

If this is truly a SCAM forum where you prove one way or the other a program is a SCAM, why close the thread until it has been proven one way or the other? I post to give you my thoughts and what my dealings with the man and group consists of and how it turned out. I see others post that had dealings with him and no complaints. But, I also see people who have had no dealings with him and the one that claims he wasn't paid hasn't told me or proven he wasn't or he didn't follow the protocol outlined to get paid. Everyone else that posted is only opinions with no proof. I want proof and I'm gathering it myself using my own methods. What I found was totally different than the opinions I found posted at MatrixWatch. You can find the same thing I did if you want to. Then it's up to you to make application for help of some kind.

Prove it!

Marshall

[Webwatch]

Hello Seeingeye and welcome to Matrixwatch , probably not the wisest screen name given that you tell us you are unconnected to Clayton apart from coincidentaly being in a program of his-but hey hiding in plain sight works in the movies.

I won't go into your post in depth because of the huge leap off faith I must take in order to consider any of it verifiable and genuine.
Sorry to poo poo your whole post with one sentence, but there you go.

After all its proof or performance we need and that would be Dreamers payment as promised, not some feeble-should have filled an application form in excuse.

Anyway:My IP address is with Hughes Net. It's one of those sky things and I would presume it would show someplace. I don't know why you would want it anyway but that is my uplink. I live in Arizona where the only thing you see more than people is SNAKES.I may have missed something but why is this information relavant, have you been asked for your ip addy-not to my knowledge. I can assure you that IP address are private information and do not get released into the open. Of course if 2 user names share the same ip address one user name has to be banned.

One other little question-Three times you have said that your mother would be proud of you, why when the original reference wasn't to you in the first place. Do you have family issues you would like to discuss on another thread if so thats fine and I will try and help in my limited capacity as a physchotherapist.
The first time you mentioned your Mommy was to convince others the other 2 times are to convince yourself.


N.B. For any guests viewing this thread wondering what is going on.
Its just a pro Sam Group activist trying to defend one of Clayton Parkers schemes and defend Mr Parkers character as there are a few of us here that believe all his schemes to be of a somewhat dubious nature.

I know its strange why an Anti Scam forum should put up with this but Clayton and friends have been laughed off nearly all the scam promoting ones, namely MMG & Talkgold. After all we are more tolerant than others and just love to see em squirm.

You may also be asking yourself why when all Claytons supporters end there posts with either initials or name isn't it obvious these are all the same poster well that would be that proof thingy again and it would be unfair to just ban user names on a hunch.




Julian (oops):head:

[Gringo]

Can you explain to me, I'm rather dense in understanding the arguement you are making, HOW the funds sent to people from offshore makes it an investment or ponzi scheme using his cash flow chart?Flow charts, explainations, denials, are all irrelevent. All ponzi operators have some kind of explaination on how they can pay out enormous returns.

In the case of Kim Inman, victims weren't investing, they were buying advertising credits and the return would be unending because of outside investments, reserves, and retail advertising sales.

In Claytons case, the returns are from secret trading schemes, biblical tithing programs, trust funds from anonymous benifcators, etc.:crazy:

The fact is, you have to send him money to get him to send money back to you. Call it a tithe, deposit, gift, or whatever you want. Your money is at risk once it leaves your hands despite any assurances to the contrary or any cash flow diagrams that Clayton conjures up.

This is clearly a hoax and disaster waiting to happen for those that send him money. Like all such schemes, those who get in early get the bait and can walk away in profit. Those that come in later get taken to the cleaners.

Claytons description of his program, the qualifications to participate, and other aspects of it are continously changing in the form of a moving target as the flaws of his silly little lame scam gets exposed here.

[seeingeye]

Flow charts, explainations, denials, are all irrelevent. All ponzi operators have some kind of explaination on how they can pay out enormous returns.

He doesn't pay out enormous returns, they are REWARDS for giving.

In the case of Kim Inman, victims weren't investing, they were buying advertising credits and the return would be unending because of outside investments, reserves, and retail advertising sales.

A prudent person should have known that "advertising" was a hard row to hoe!

In Claytons case, the returns are from secret trading schemes, biblical tithing programs, trust funds from anonymous benifcators, etc.:crazy:

Not crazy Grengo, working financial principals. And, again NOT RETURNS.

The fact is, you have to send him money to get him to send money back to you.

No, no, he NEVER pays you back and give you that in writing. The trust send you a REWARD.

Call it a tithe, deposit, gift, or whatever you want. Your money is at risk once it leaves your hands despite any assurances to the contrary or any cash flow diagrams that Clayton conjures up.

Grengo, the only risk is your faith in others. He can't use the funds in the trust for anyother reason than GIVE THEM AWAY. Why not pay those he owes so they won't come looking for him?

This is clearly a hoax and disaster waiting to happen for those that send him money. Like all such schemes, those who get in early get the bait and can walk away in profit. Those that come in later get taken to the cleaners.

I think you are in error. But, that is yet to be seen.

Claytons description of his program, the qualifications to participate, and other aspects of it are continously changing in the form of a moving target as the flaws of his silly little lame scam gets exposed here.

I don't think a scam has been exposed just yet. It hasn't failed yet! SCAMS must have victims, and I see no victims here except in older plans that his has said he has recouped and will pay back.

The application changes only in the aspect a board approves or denies the applicant. Maybe there are a few flaws, but it is yet to be seen that it is a SCAM, and certainly hasn't been proven just yet.

I wish you a fruitful future.

Marshall

[Ferret]

Hey "Marshall"
I find it interesting that you insist on calling Gringo "Grengo" just like Believer aka Clayton did

[seeingeye]

What's interesting about it?

We have grengo's in Arizona. It's so comon I might have mis-spelled it. Haven't you been to Arizona?

Marshall

[Gringo]

He doesn't pay out enormous returns, they are REWARDS for givingYou've really hit rock bottom in your defense when you try to redefine something to make it appear legitimate. Call it whatever you want. Courts don't care and it won't matter what it was called when your money is gone. "Rewards for giving = return on investment." Conmen know that to refer in anyway to an investment or to use any related terms, that the SEC will be on them in a hurry. So they change the words to try to avoid being shut down.

YMMSS terminology was "purchasing EPC" for investment. Others have used "gifting", "deposit", "fee", etc. It doesn't matter what you call it when the action is the same--give money to someone with the expectation that they will give you a greater amount back.

Grengo, the only risk is your faith in others. He can't use the funds in the trust for anyother reason than GIVE THEM AWAY. Why not pay those he owes so they won't come looking for him?
No, the risk is the money you send to Clayton will disappear. Once it leaves your possession, you have no control over it. He could claim the funds are sitting in a safe deposit box, he could claim anything. Scammers always have some sort of explaination as to why giving them money is a sure thing, why there is no risk.

I think you are in error. But, that is yet to be seen.I don't think a scam has been exposed just yet. It hasn't failed yet! SCAMS must have victims, and I see no victims here except in older plans that his has said he has recouped and will pay back.
There is always a period in the beginning of the ponzi that everything looks legit. People put money in, and like clockwork they get huge amounts back. YMMSS went over a year bragging that no one had lost a penny. The longer they last, the bigger the crash because more people get sucked in due to the track record.

What clearly makes this a scam is offering huge returns with no risk and no proof as to how such is possible.

[seeingeye]

Gringo,

I'm not in defense of anything illegal. I've done my due diligence thoroughly. If something illegal is being done, it is YOUR DUTY to present proof. I don't see any proof in your statements. Nor did I find anything illegal in my investigation.

And, I'm not going to let you or anyone else put doubts in my mind. I've seen post here of people who have been helped, and NOTHING here that he does not do what he says he will do. Can you point out something?

I understand the concept and it is structured legally according to my legal counsel. And, following the structure, there is no way it is ponzi or illegal in any way. You can point out how others did such things, but you can not point out how his fits into that scheme.

We'll have to see won't we. I think you haven't done anything in the way of collecting evidence one way or the other.

He has presented PROOF of how the high returns are derived, it's just that you have decided to ignore it as being true. And, his structure is nothing like the OBVIOUS SCAM that you and others joined and talk about all the time.

This is a SCAM forum. Please provide some PROOF that his program is a SCAM, PONZI, GIFTING PROGRAM OR INVESTMENT. You do know what "PROOF" is don't you?

The same kind of PROOF Mr. Dreamer is ignoring and refusing to present that I've asked for. I want him to tell me he presented an application for the request of the money he claims he was not paid. Now, that is what I want in the way of PROOF.

If you can not provide PROOF, then you are in ERROR in all aspects of your opinion. And, your opinion carries no weight with me, nor will it carry any weight in a court of law where it counts. If you think you are not in error, then make the accuations in a court and go from there. But, if you are wrong, you are opening yourself up to litigation against yourself.

In that light, are you brave enough to make accuations to the SEC without PROOF, or are you just a windbag?

I need PROOF of your allegations or it is nothing but wind.

Someone please bring me some PROOF!

Marshall

[littleroundman]

I can see that no one that post has read the pages that explain the concept of what his plans entail. A 35% reward is different than a 35% return, and you still can't prove it's a "pozi" or "ponzi" scheme using his "cash flow chart".

It's funny, every time someone comes along with a new wrinkle on a ponzi scam, they always seem to bring up the same old: "It doesn't fit the definition of a ponzi" argument.

The fact is, the word "Ponzi" doesn't appear in the statutes or charge sheets.

What happens to someone who runs this sort of scam??
They would probably end up:
pleading guilty to 24 federal charges including racketeering, securities fraud and conspiracy could face a sentence of 150 years in jail and $6.5m in fines.

Just like this person who ran an almost identical "charity" giveaway program:

http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/InPerson/MajorPerson/examples.htm

[Gringo]

And, I'm not going to let you or anyone else put doubts in my mind. Of course not. You've closed your mind. You won't allow anyone to burst your dream bubble. You are emotionally wrapped up in this scheme. Typical victim behaviour. There are STILL defenders of Kim Inman as well, even now after the scam is obvious. I know you won't change your position and my purpose is not to do so. I only refute all your claims knowing that anyone that Googles Clayton Parker will end up here and will in the course of their due dilligence see the truth before they loose their money to him.
He has presented PROOF of how the high returns are derived, it's just that you have decided to ignore it as being true. And what proof is that? Unsubstantiated charts and explainations on his website? All requests that have been made by us for Clayton to support his claims have been met with avoidance and excuses.
I need PROOF of your allegations or it is nothing but wind.
No you don't, you've made up your mind. Nothing will change that. His whole gifting/reward/investment scheme is irrational and full of holes. Any rational person can see that.

[seeingeye]

Gringo,

You aren't in error when you say, "any rational person can see that"!

Thank You for that word of confidence.

Marshall

[seeingeye]

Are any of you keeping up with Clayton's silly little scam. It is paying and appears to be the best little scam ever conceived. I fell for it and got paid. Two more payments will give me 100% of my principal.

I'll keep you informed.

Is Clayton still banned at this forum? I don't see any new post. It is humorous the comments he post about matrixwatch at his web page.

I'm going to visit him in April or sooner if I can. He promised to show me the ATM receipt showing the balance of The Believers Trust. With that I will then be a true believer.

I have only $500 at risk right now, and 8 more payments in rewards which will total another $2,000 in total and $1,500 of that profit. It beats gambling or dealing with unknown hyips.

I like to keep up with the gossip and start some occassionally. But, facts are facts and I like to post facts that can be proven. It makes "non-fact" posters appear to be what Clayton calls cavemen. I love it!

Marshall

[seeingeye]

Little round man,

I read the link you are comparing Clayton's "simple" little scam to.

http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/...n/examples.htm

I don't see anything that even resembles what that guy did. He used aliases and used financial institutions to abscound over $1M. There is nothing even similar to what Clayton is doing.

Also, a federal judge is over The Believers Trust of which Clayton is only the signatory authority over and nothing more. And, his legal council is aware of every post or web page he uplinks. I don't see where your example says anything about legal entities were backing the example plan.

You can't compare an apple to an orange and get a rational thinking person to believe you think rational using such examples.

I'm not a defender of Clayton, I'm a believer in the structure. When I see the ATM balance, then I will have something solid to share with you that is FACT and all the proof I need. A trust is set up to receive funds from investments, and a balance larger than $2M is sufficient proof to me there is something real working some place sending the funds to the trust.

The only thing silly about his program is the post found at this forum by those Clayton call cavemen. I love it!

LET ME ANSWER THIS FROM "G" ... "What clearly makes this a scam is offering huge returns with no risk and no proof as to how such is possible."

The answer: The Believers Trust is where the "returns" as you call them come from. As of right now according to his web site there is $2,400,000 setting in the trust. Therefore, if he uses a deposit as a measuring stick to determine what will be given back to them over 10 months, then that is where the "returns" come from. The rewards come right out of a trust fund holding money to be given away. How it got there is of no consequence to me. If I see an ATM balance from an ATM and the balance is on The Believers Trust, then it's proof there is something behind the whole program he has. He does explain it as an investment so people can understand what the deposit will get them out of the trust funds. With $2.4M in a turst fund proven to me, and with me receiving my "rewards" from that same trust, it's proof enough to me there is something in the background working. And, if it's on a need to know and I'm don't need to know, then that's good enough for me. I don't see ponzi here because he spends your money, and an offshore trust sends me the rewards. It's not an investment because the deposit I sent to him never was sent to an offshore place or anything like that. There are powers behind his program that are unseen, and certain things that I see have convienced me. I only need one more form of proof and I'll be hooked for my life savings. I'll borrow money to send to him.

I like the negative comments here. It puts enough doubt in my mind to seek REAL PROOF. And, as I find the proof, I'll share it with you.

You compare his with the ymss?? scam of buying units of someting. That is the old apple vs orange error. Clayton's sales pitch is: "Spend your money and kiss it goodbye because I will NEVER pay you back"! He isn't selling anything that will give you a return on something. He is giving away money already earned and setting ready to be GIVEN AWAY. And, using your deposit as a way to determine how much of that money you will receive back over 10 months taken out of those pre-earned funds setting in the trust.

You would get laughed out of court if you tried to get him on some kind of scam once he showed the document to the judge you signed with the "spend ....." statement. You would be the biggest FOOL of an investor that ever lived to give him money on those terms. So, the ymss whatever can't be compared to what Clayton has to offer.

I've read his site so much that I can almost quote it word for word. And, the structure doesn't have any flaws. IF followed to the letter, my attorney says it is pure genius. And, I suspect his genius friend Speck does have something to do with it!

I have the same proof as you do thus far that there is a real trading entity and I have an offshore return that was sent to me dirctly from the trust. But, with one more item, the ATM balance showing $2.4M in the trust, it will be sufficient to me to come up with $10K to deposit.

Give me some questions to ask Clayton when I see him or I'll call him and get the answers. But if it takes written proof, I'll see if he will post it. But if he does, it may take a password to access the page.

So, give me something I can use as proof his silly little scam is.

Thanks,

Marshall

[Webwatch]

I thought this thread might spring back to life with the shutdown of YMMSS/STA.

Although this scam has been compared to YMMSS in the past which is quite flattering because even YMMSS made a little sense in the beginning, no proof has ever been given on where all these funds are deriven from and no contact details for the 'Alledged' lawyers involved.

In fact one of our members is still owed $1000 by the founder of this program, who has such an obsession with Matrixwatch that he tries and fails to ridicule us elsewhere. Does this sound like a guy who you would want to trust your money to.:nono:

Untill those funds are paid no one should take this program or anyone who promotes it here seriously.

[seeingeye]

I totally agree. Freeloaders and those that resemble one should not participate with the promoters.

There is a very large pot that holds a lot of money that is being fed by people with very private and personal investments. The fact is, the "pot" has been proven to exist.

Who feeds the pot will never be revealed as I understand it because those people are not willing to allow their names to be given out.

To access the funds, a fellow member needs to buy a spoon to dip the funds out of the pot. The bigger the spoon, the bigger the dips you can access.

The guy you say is owed the 1,000 fits the example of a person who wants something for nothing. And if he was paid, someone would tell him "your mother must be proud of him because he took other peoples money". And, to save him the imbarrassment, that may be the reason he wasn't paid.

Why would anyone want to cause such a high standing member of this forum any imbarrassment?

I don't take the program serious you are referring to, I take it more serious than others do though.

Just a thought.

Marshall

[Webwatch]

There is a very large pot that holds a lot of money that is being fed by people with very private and personal investments. The fact is, the "pot" has been proven to exist.So the pot is 'very large', but we have never received any proof that this pot excists.

Who feeds the pot will never be revealed as I understand it because those people are not willing to allow their names to be given out.Theres also the possibility that these names can't be revealed because like the pot they don't excist.

To access the funds, a fellow member needs to buy a spoon to dip the funds out of the pot. The bigger the spoon, the bigger the dips you can access.Would this buying a spoon be the technical term for sending TSG some cash first.

The guy you say is owed the 1,000 fits the example of a person who wants something for nothing. And if he was paid, someone would tell him "your mother must be proud of him because he took other peoples money". And, to save him the imbarrassment, that may be the reason he wasn't paid.The guy fits the example of someone who has been promised money and then never received it, my mother wouldnt tell him anything as she doesn't know him. We all know the reason no payment has been made and thats because TSG hasn't got a 'Pot' to pee in let alone a pot full of cash.

I don't take the program serious you are referring to, I take it more serious than others do though.So you don't take the program serious (all evidence to the contrary I'm afraid), it would be impossible to take the program any less serious than anyone here.

[seeingeye]

Mr. Web Watch, is that you at his site doing the caveman dance. I wonder why you are the little guy dancing. I'll have to ask Clayton that.

I also found out that the dreamer didn't let Clayton know how to contact him. So, Clayton didn't lie. How can he pay someone that won't let him know who he is.

Make a "liar" out of me. I'm doing so well with Clayton, I'll give him $1,000 that Clayton doesn't owe him if he will contact me with his coordinates.

How about it Dreamer. Let's see you make a liar out of me.

You got to love it!

Marshall

[Webwatch]

Mr. Web Watch, is that you at his site doing the caveman dance. I wonder why you are the little guy dancing. I'll have to ask Clayton that.
Humour for Beginners: The joke is even less amusing if you have to explain it because the intended subject of the afformentioned humour attempt has not commented on the matter. By getting someone else to draw attention to your own humour attempts degrades the subject matter even further.

As far as being the little guy dancing: maybe thats an attempt to add even more humour to the caveman personna being represented or more likely I have had such an impact in Claytons life that he has to differentiate me from the other caveman. By representing me as a smaller image Clayton is inadvertently showing how really he considers me more of a threat to his program as in reality he truly sees me as much larger and only by representing me as a smaller character in his humour attempts can he massage his own ego further. This theory is strengthened even further by you mentioning it which I suspect is born out of frustration as I hadn't drawn attention to it previously.
This has a lot to do with depths of perception and how humour in this situation is an inverse of what the perpetrator of the joke really thinks and stuff.
Just guessing though.

The rest of your post is not aimed at me so I am unable to comment.

[Dreamer]

I also found out that the dreamer didn't let Clayton know how to contact him. So, Clayton didn't lie. How can he pay someone that won't let him know who he is.

I believe this is the same thread. I'll hafta find the post number. I sent him my details after he asked for it. Let me find the post that listed the dates and times.

http://matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4981 - Very first post

September 7th, 2006

http://matrixwatch.org/forums/showth...light=believer

Dreamer,

I have just talked to the (individual) and he says to look for some funds to arrive into The Believers Trust next week. Now, that is somewhere around the 15th or so.

The offer still holds: Write me, and I'll get you $1K

Digging up email I responded - September 8th, 2006, 4:41 AM