How CEP works (plain and simple)

[MatrixWatch]

Can someone explain, in clear, concise, and unbiased terms, how this program works?

How does it reach customers? How do they "invest", and what specifically are they buying? What are the promises, timelines, and caveats?

[mitrod3]

The C E P websites actually did a decent job of explaining that all when I saw them awhile back as well as the folks promoting it here. They laid it out well (but not real clearly) and C E P was coming through for them (I am not in it) right on schedule until they bump in the road was hit just recently. A bump that my three investment advisers all said was coming.

Participants were reached by those already in or by running into it on the web and then doing some reading but most of it (at least around here) was word of mouth from the folks already invested.

As to how it all really works? I asked that eariler in another area here and.................zippo thus far.

Good luck.

[077770]

CEP began in 2005 by diversifying into a bunch of AutoSurfs.

Eventually they pulled out of the autosurf and into real estate, condominums, travel agencies, currencies, car rentals....

CEP also earns returns from advertising purchases they make at profit-sharing sites like CEPCoast & Coastin88

NOTE: This is purely my own speculation

[MatrixWatch]

How much money does it cost for someone to "invest"? And what are the incentives?

[mitrod3]

CEP began in 2005 by diversifying into a bunch of AutoSurfs. Eventually they pulled out of the autosurf and into real estate, condominums, travel agencies, currencies, car rentals....CEP also earns returns from advertising purchases they make at profit-sharing sites like CEPCoast & Coastin88

Thanks. I appreciate the clarification and that pretty much lines up with what has been shared about the bigger picture among a few of the folks close to Trevor from these parts.

But, folks here (and elsewhere) have already done that kind of serious diversification without seeing the monetary results C E P had gotten so what was their particular "golden key" in it all?

Being connected to a lot of folks both in the legal areana and in law enforcement here (through hand gun training), I know the four major areas where the really huge money returns can come from, but what you shared about C E P's diversity does not line up with the big C E P kind of returns under normal circumstances. What do they have going that most folks miss?

Thanks again.

[077770]

How much money does it cost for someone to "invest"? And what are the incentives?

They don't use the word "invest"

Members purchase "upgrades" in $5 units in a 180 day or 360 day plan. Each unit receives a return of 60% per month for the duration (6 or 12 months). Total return in 360 Day Plan is 720%. Payouts can be compounded monthly.

Members can choose to withdrawal or compound, but only during 20 of 30 days of the month. For 10 days prior to the payout date, the decision is locked. This allows CEP to plan ahead when they have to make payouts. Payouts are sent within 10 business days of the payout date.

$100 for example, will pay out $60 per month for one year, until reaching $720

$100 compounded for an entire year, would pay out over $10,000 per month

[mitrod3]

They don't use the word "invest"

Members purchase "upgrades" in $5 units in a 180 day or 360 day plan. Each unit receives a return of 60% per month for the duration (6 or 12 months). Total return in 360 Day Plan is 720%. Payouts can be compounded monthly.

Members can choose to withdrawal or compound, but only during 20 of 30 days of the month. For 10 days prior to the payout date, the decision is locked. This allows CEP to plan ahead when they have to make payouts.

$100 for example, will pay out $60 per month for one year, until reaching $720

$100 compounded for an entire year, would pay out over $10,000 per month

Maybe they don't use "invest" there but folks here sure do when they are open, honest and up front about what they are doing. They "invest" and expect a specific "return" within a specific time frame on that investment although as you said it is called by another name to skirt some issues and aspects relating to what is being done. The serious players here (and there are/were some) don't go in for name game going on. They simply call it what they see it is. These are business folks out to make a serious return/profit on their money and they are very open about it.

[Webwatch]

If the last site stats showed around $22,000,000 paid in and $20,000,000 paid out why isn't CEP at the stage where it is paying out more than is being inves.. er paid in.

So $22,000,000 paid in should eventually acheive $1584,000,0000 return

Maths obviously isn't my strong point but how come not once did CEP ever pay out more than was paid in if 720% a years was being acheived, didn't Trevor say he was making 4 x everyones investments back.

[077770]

CEP basically requires 24 days notice before they make a payout (10 days + up to 10 business days). This allowed them to maximize what was being invested.
...so what was their particular "golden key" in it all? What do they have going that most folks miss?

The Intent, Motive, Love, Faith, & Character of The Administration.

[mitrod3]

CEP basically requires 24 days notice before they make a payout (10 days + up to 10 business days). This allowed them to maximize what was being invested.


The Intent, Motive, Love, Faith, & Character of The Administration.

The INTENT, MOTIVE....etc.

Now that is exactly what I have heard from folks here who have talked with Trevor (and others) at C E P. It is their trust that something "very different and really good" is going on that is a hall mark of those committed to C E P in our area right now.

Only time will tell how it all shakes out.

[077770]

$20,000,000 in would mean a return of $158,400,000 after one year

Maths obviously isn't my strong point but how come not once did CEP ever pay out more than was paid in if 720% a years was being acheived
Many members compounded payouts...those payouts/upgrades don't alter the in/out ratio. Also, the member base and amount of purchases was not constant. These increased over time at varying rates. When people started realizing how great CEP is...the amount invested went up...exponentially. CEP is generally trusted. People are less fearful of investing with CEP. The amount paid in increases when people feel like its a good investment. As CEP gained a great reputation...of course the amount in went up like crazy. Pay Outs inspire Paid In

BTW: CEP did, in fact, at times, pay out more than was paid in. For proof look for cached records of CEP home page.

[concerned]

They don't use the word "invest"

What a big supprise. Thanks for more proof that they are a scam. The reason they don't use the word invest, is because they are trying to circumvent the law. Too bad it didn't work, cause one of the reasons they were probably targeted by the SEC was because they were trying to be creative when they chose not to use the word invest to try to claim they weren't breaking any laws.

[MatrixWatch]

Members purchase "upgrades" in $5 units in a 180 day or 360 day plan. Each unit receives a return of 60% per month for the duration (6 or 12 months). Total return in 360 Day Plan is 720%. Payouts can be compounded monthly.

Members can choose to withdrawal or compound, but only during 20 of 30 days of the month. For 10 days prior to the payout date, the decision is locked. This allows CEP to plan ahead when they have to make payouts. Payouts are sent within 10 business days of the payout date.

$100 for example, will pay out $60 per month for one year, until reaching $720

$100 compounded for an entire year, would pay out over $10,000 per month

Let me make sure I'm understanding you. A new member to CEP purchases an "upgrade" for $5 each, and then earns 60% on that money each month for a duration of 6-12 months.

Is that correct?

If so, then my next question is how do they get those returns for their investors? Where is the money being "invested"?

[Ferret]

They don't use the word "invest"

Members purchase "upgrades" in $5 units in a 180 day or 360 day plan. Each unit receives a return of 60% per month for the duration (6 or 12 months). Total return in 360 Day Plan is 720%. Payouts can be compounded monthly.

Members can choose to withdrawal or compound, but only during 20 of 30 days of the month. For 10 days prior to the payout date, the decision is locked. This allows CEP to plan ahead when they have to make payouts. Payouts are sent within 10 business days of the payout date.

$100 for example, will pay out $60 per month for one year, until reaching $720

$100 compounded for an entire year, would pay out over $10,000 per month
Wrong, you are incorrect again
$100 for example, will pay out $60 per month for one year, until reaching $720
You didn't mention that you don't get the $100 principal back


PS: 077770, are you homeless now like you said on the CEP forum?
What happened to the $20,000 a month you said you were getting?
As one of the first into this scheme you must have made over
$100,000

Why do you keep avoiding this question here and on the CEP forum?

Nothing you say can be trusted

They don't use the word "invest"
Oh yes CEP did and still does use the word invest
Read the old versions of CEP on the Way Back Machine
Trevor just tried to redefine what "invest" meant

At least Kim Inman was smart enough to ban the word Invest
and **** it out on the STA forum
Ponzi was also **** out

[Accountant]

The business model is something like this:

Take in a lot of money
keep some for us
spend some on advertising on online scam forums
pay out some to a few early investors so they will promote for us
take in a lot more money
keep a bit more for us


repeat as able

[MtnGrl]

If so, then my next question is how do they get those returns for their investors? Where is the money being "invested"?

- condos
- short and long term real estate
- bank secured investments between the US and Europe
- nutritional products
- a travel agency which builds resorts
- an ebay trading company



Dat's what admin said.

[Ferret]

CEP began in 2005 by diversifying into a bunch of AutoSurfs.

Eventually they pulled out of the autosurf and into real estate, condominums, travel agencies, currencies, car rentals....

CEP also earns returns from advertising purchases they make at profit-sharing sites like CEPCoast & Coastin88

NOTE: This is purely my own speculation
What
real estate,
condominums,
travel agencies,
currencies,
car rentals...
is CEP involved with?
I have asked this many times and NO ONE knows the answer....

Wouldn't Trevor Reed want the 16,000 CEP members to be
using the travel agencies and car rentals?

Why would this be a secret?

Actually I have never seen car rentals mentioned before so
I think you made that one up in your desperation to defend
your invested money 077770

PS: Are you ever going to answer my question :rolleyes:

PPS: an ebay trading company was Global Online Direct
and they just got a receiver appointed by the SEC which
is exactly what CEP and Trevor Reeds fate will be

[MtnGrl]

What
real estate,
condominums,
travel agencies,
currencies,
car rentals...
is CEP involved with?
I have asked this many times and NO ONE knows the answer....

Wouldn't Trevor Reed want the 16,000 CEP members to be
using the travel agencies and car rentals?

Why would this be a secret?

Actually I have never seen car rentals mentioned before so
I think you made that one up in your desperation to defend
your invested money 077770

PS: Are you ever going to answer my question :rolleyes:

PPS: an ebay trading company was Global Online Direct
and they just got a receiver appointed by the SEC which
is exactly what CEP and Trevor Reeds fate will be



Sssshhhhhh! Members were told that (and I paraphrase here) the investments are hush hush because some of the places they invest have it as part of their agreement that CEP will not disclose the names or the arrangements. ;)

[Accountant]

Oh, well then tel me in code, I have my decoder ring here.....

[MatrixWatch]

...some of the places they invest have it as part of their agreement that CEP will not disclose the names or the arrangements. ;)

Drug cartels?

[Accountant]

I actually have seen a lot of places that their investments in fact were mainly in other ponzi schemes and autosurfs.....

[mitrod3]

I actually have seen a lot of places that their investments in fact were mainly in other ponzi schemes and autosurfs.....


That was the word that came through from some of folks here also.......

[mitrod3]

Sssshhhhhh! Members were told that (and I paraphrase here) the investments are hush hush because some of the places they invest have it as part of their agreement that CEP will not disclose the names or the arrangements. ;)

Oh great.....and I was trying to disallow (based on Trevors reputation) the four major areas of "huge financial return" mentioned to me by my LEO buddies.

[MtnGrl]

watchdog,
Drug cartels? Are you serious or just teasing me? ;) If you are serious, I do not have any knowledge of drug cartels being an arrangement of theirs.

Accountant,
I do believe that at first the website was called "autosurfcoop.com" because they pooled everyone's money and placed it in autosurfs, hyip's, (etc.) Then it was said they got away from that and put money into actual investments.

mitrod3,
I'm a little wet behind the ears still. I have no clue what LEO buddies refers to.

[mitrod3]

Oh, sorry there. Law Enforcement Officers. I mix with a number of them at the shooting range these days and have talked over this whole thing with some of the Secretary of States officers as well as a couple of detectives just to get their take on this.

Nothing earth shaking as this looks more like a ponzi, or a ponzi into other ponzi's, than anything else.........but who the heck really knows what is going on here???

[MtnGrl]

Oh, LEO, cool :cool: Seems obvious to me now, duh.

Yeah, who knows what exactly is going on. Don't get me wrong... I am ALL for people having discussions and speculating... in the end though when it comes right down to it we just really do not know for certain what is going on. One thing is for certain however - once this reaches it's conclusion it will be held up as an example for future reference ;)

[mitrod3]

Oh, LEO, cool :cool: Seems obvious to me now, duh.
Yeah, who knows what exactly is going on. Don't get me wrong... I am ALL for people having discussions and speculating... in the end though when it comes right down to it we just really do not know for certain what is going on. One thing is for certain however - once this reaches it's conclusion it will be held up as an EXAMPLE for future reference ;)

Yep, this one will be another example out there, one way or the other. I sure have a lot of friends hoping it's an example of how things can go right in the end.........we will see.

[Ferret]

Sssshhhhhh! Members were told that (and I paraphrase here) the investments are hush hush because some of the places they invest have it as part of their agreement that CEP will not disclose the names or the arrangements. ;)
You do realize that secrecy about where CEP has "invested" is a HUGE
SEC violation and contradicts Trevor Reed s statement that CEP was
complying with the SEC

Here are the details of what happened to one of CEPs investments/(PonzI)

I can only assume that CEPs other investments/(PonzI) were of a similar
nature.
The SEC investigation of CEP will lead to many of these investments/(PonzI)
being shut down

"Michael A. Grassmueck, Receiver
for Global Online Direct, Inc.

June 25, 2007

To All Investors and Creditors

Re:Securities and Exchange Commission v. Global Online Direct, Inc.; Bryant E. Behrmann; and Larry "Buck" Hunter, United States District Court, Northern District of Georgia, Atlanta Division, Civil Action No. 1:07-CV-0767-WSD

Dear Investors/Creditors:

On June 4, 2007, the United States District Court for the Northern District of Georgia, Atlanta Division (the "District Court") appointed me as Receiver to take control of Global Online Direct, Inc., and their subsidiaries and affiliates (collectively, the "Global"). Based on the District Court's Orders, all assets of Global and Defendants Bryant E. Behrmann ("Behrmann") and Larry "Buck" E. Hunter ("Hunter") (collectively, "Defendants") and their subsidiaries and affiliates are frozen and all actions against Defendants, including but not limited to any effort to enforce claims through self-help or other means are expressly prohibited without prior approval of District Court.

In other words, claims against Global, Behrmann, Hunter or their subsidiaries or affiliates and efforts to take possession of or to assert a lien interest in the property of these entities is prohibited.

Prior to my appointment as Receiver, on June 4, 2007, the United States Securities and Exchange Commission (the "Commission") filed a lawsuit in the District Court against the Defendants. In its lawsuit, the Commission alleged that the Defendants had been conducting an investment scheme from 2005 through the present in which they engaged in the unlawful sale of securities to investors raising more than $15,000,000 from 8,000 investors.

Among other things, the Commission alleged that the Defendants promised annual returns of more than 1103% on investments over $10,000.

On April 5, 2007, the District Court granted its Order Granting Preliminary Injunction and Ordering Other Ancillary Relief ("April 5, 2007 Order"), enjoining Defendants from violating Sections 5(a) and 5(c) of the Securities Act of 1933 ("Securities Act").

On June 4, 2007, the District Court modified certain provisions of the April 5, 2007 Order, granted an order appointing me as a Receiver for Defendants, freezing all their assets, ordering other ancillary Relief and prohibiting further fraudulent activities alleged in the Commission's complaint ("Order").

As the Receiver, one of my principal responsibilities is to locate, recover and preserve the assets of the Defendants and their subsidiaries and affiliates. Accordingly, my initial work has been focused on the marshaling of assets, analysis of the books and records of the Defendants and the evaluation of the alleged business operations.

At this time, I have made no recommendations to the District Court as to whether Global can or should be operated or liquidated. Before any steps are taken to sell or liquidate the Defendants or their assets, notice will be provided to creditors and investors and I will seek Court approval.

Following the guidelines set forth in the Order and local court rules, in a few weeks I shall file an inventory report with the District Court and a copy of that inventory report will be found in the records of the United States District Court as well as on the website for Global located at http://www.grassmueckgroup.com/global_online.php.

We are in the process of evaluating the assets described in this inventory.

Given the status of the District Court proceedings as well as the Receiver's investigation, I am not in a position to make an estimate as to the timing or the amount that may ultimately be distributed to creditors and investors, if any.

If assets are discovered that will yield a return to investors or creditors, you may receive notice of the claims procedures, the date for filing claims and any District Court hearing regarding the Receiver's distribution plans. Again, it is too soon to estimate whether such process will be warranted or the timing of such process.

In the meantime, you will receive periodic updates regarding the status of this matter. However, please note that the cost of such communication is extraordinary in light of the fact that there may be in excess of 8,000 creditors and investors worldwide. Given the cost associated with such mailings, we will only advise you of significant matters that affect your interests and such communications may be limited to email postings and updates on our website. I would encourage you to follow the case by using the website established for Global, or to review the records at the District Court. To facilitate this, we will post significant pleadings and other updates on this website.

In order to facilitate communication, I will be holding conference calls starting this week. Due to the number of callers expected and the limitations of technology, there will not be any opportunity to ask questions and each call will be limited to the first 1000 callers. If the line is busy when you call, please call back at a later time. Note that each of the calls below will discuss the same information and therefore it is not necessary to attend more than one call. All call times are listed in Pacific-Standard time and use United States phone numbers. If you are calling from out of the country, it will be necessary to first dial the country code (011).

Day Time
(Pacific DaylightTime) Call In Number Passcode
June 27, 2007 9:00 AM (PDT) 605-772-3500 484409305#
June 27, 2007 9:30 AM (PDT) 605-772-3500 431677189#
June 28, 2007 1:00 PM (PDT) 605-772-3500 485180054#
June 28, 2007 1:30 PM (PDT) 605-772-3500 470863308#
July 2, 2007 3:30 PM (PDT) 605-772-3500 496003722#
July 2, 2007 4:00 PM (PDT) 605-772-3500 423454588#
July 3, 2007 9:00 AM (PDT) 605-772-3500 464370468#
July 3, 2007 9:30 AM (PDT) 605-772-3500 456357385#


If you have any questions after the conference call, please email them to the address listed below. We will use the questions as the basis for a second round of conference calls to answer the most commonly asked questions.

Sincerely,
Michael A. Grassmueck
Receiver

P.O. Box 3649, Portland, Oregon 97208-3649

[Accountant]

It's important to note a little clause in that order, to wit:

all assets of Global and Defendants Bryant E. Behrmann ("Behrmann") and Larry "Buck" E. Hunter ("Hunter") (collectively, "Defendants") and their subsidiaries and affiliates are frozen and all actions against Defendants, including but not limited to any effort to enforce claims through self-help or other means are expressly prohibited without prior approval of District Court.


As I've been saying all along, if you want to get ahead of the Kool Aid Klub you have to sue them BEFORE the SEC does. If you get in after, you will become part of what is effectively a class action and be lucky to get cents on the dollar, but if you get a judgement before the SEC, you may get every penny of that judgement before the SEC gets anything to let the reciever had out in a few years.

[Ferret]

As I've been saying all along, if you want to get ahead of the Kool Aid Klub you have to sue them BEFORE the SEC does.

If you get in after, you will become part of what is effectively a class action and be lucky to get cents on the dollar, but if you get a judgement before the SEC, you may get every penny of that judgement before the SEC gets anything to let the reciever had out in a few years.
Isn't it a little bit too late to get a judgement before the SEC now?

By the time you filed and got a court date the SEC will have acted.
I think it will be 2 months on July 18th and I doubt if the SEC will
take longer than 3 months.
The justice system moves pretty slowly.

[MtnGrl]

You do realize that secrecy about where CEP has "invested" is a HUGE
SEC violation and contradicts Trevor Reed s statement that CEP was
complying with the SEC

Yes, I do. That is why they do not have any of my money ;)

[mitrod3]

You do realize that secrecy about where CEP has "invested" is a HUGE SEC violation and contradicts Trevor Reeds statement that CEP was complying with the SEC

The whole issue of not being able to get any clear info :confused: on how the money was actually being handled was a key aspect in our not becoming involved in this. It should have been a clear warning to others also....but.....

[077770]

Drug cartels?
CEP is a Christian Company. They are honest, loving, beautiful people. They are of Love & Light. They are real, everyday people.

[Ferret]

This isn't the government
Hey 077770
Seeing you are making spam comments I thought I would pop in

I see you aren't too popular on the CEP Forum ;)

Will you ever answer my question about you being broke
and homeless when you claimed here recently to be making $20,000
a month and to have been paid for 18 months?

077770
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 48
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:24 am (http://www.colonendparenthesis.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3412&start=30&sid=9ebed71805265e9392de492bde08d1d3) Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Watching CEP newscasts makes me ill. They are a joke. Could they be any more unprofessional? They always talk about some stupid "surprise" - which usually ends up being a kick in the groin. And what the muck is up with all those pictures of random people at the beginning of newscast #7? hello?!?! where am I ?!?

[concerned]

CEP is a Christian Company. They are honest, loving, beautiful people. They are of Love & Light. They are real, everyday people.

I know you won't answer this question, but I will ask anyway. Why do you come here and defend the company that we all know you hate from your comments on their forum? Do you have a split personality?

[Accountant]

CEP is a Christian Company. They are honest, loving, beautiful people. They are of Love & Light. They are real, everyday people.

And of course, thieves.

[Webwatch]

CEP is a Christian Company. They are honest, loving, beautiful people. They are of Love & Light. They are real, everyday people.
I'd have to say some of the Members of CEP may be honest and loving people and lets not forget Trusting, but the admin of the program are more likely to be well, lets just say slightly untrustworthy round large amounts of cash.

Real, everyday people-as opposed to what, robots, fictional characters, Aliens, etc.

Can CEP even call itself a Christian company with no ordained admin or doesn't it matter.

[Ponzi Nemesis]

$20,000,000 in would mean a return of $158,400,000 after one year[...]Even if Trevor is not prepared to disclose the details of the investments he has made, I wonder if he would, at least, be willing to state how much he has invested of these paid in funds, and what rate of return he expects to receive so that he could possibly be in a position to be able to pay out $158,400,000 in a year's time? Can he not do so?

What a surprise!

[bidnessman]

You put money in Coastin88 like I did, do the Coasting 15 sites, they post 7 cents to your account for each day you click 15 sites. The simple math is it would take years to recoup at 7 cents a day.

Then their payment processor WILL NOT return funds in your CEPtrust account. This is a black hole for your money never to be seen again.

These people, Trevor E. Reed, CEP Trust, LLC
are the worst kinds of thieves and liars, as they report themselves to be Jesus approved, but missed the "Thou Shalt Not Steal" part.

[Jasper]

PN, Accountant, do you fools ever get tired of spilling the same ole info over and ovfe rand over again???? It gets old man. give it A BREak ok. YOu idiots give matrix watch a bad name if you have no figured that out by now. Im trying to recover my money and you idiots are hurting me. WTF?? Shut the **** up ok?

Moderator Note: Infraction. Please read the forum rules (http://www.matrixwatch.com/forums/announcement.php?f=26)

[Webwatch]

PN, Accountant, do you fools ever get tired of spilling the same ole info over and ovfe rand over again???? It gets old man. give it A BREak ok. YOu idiots give matrix watch a bad name if you have no figured that out by now. Im trying to recover my money and you idiots are hurting me. WTF?? Shut the **** up ok?
How are they hurting you, by warning others of these scams, or just by excisting.
Unfortunately it never gets old, there will always be more victims to warn, and there will always be those who want to awaken others to the possibility that the internet is just being used as a medium to peddle these scams and by sending money to these people is a waste of time.

Perhaps if you had found them early enough they may have saved you your loss.

Veil still slipping by the way.

[concerned]

PN, Accountant, do you fools ever get tired of spilling the same ole info over and ovfe rand over again???? It gets old man. give it A BREak ok. YOu idiots give matrix watch a bad name if you have no figured that out by now. Im trying to recover my money and you idiots are hurting me. WTF?? Shut the **** up ok?


Accountant hasn't been here long. So, he hasn't been spolling the same ole info over and over again. The bigger question is this. Why are you trying to recover money you lost in a scam by scamming others?

[HonestIncome]

Accountant hasn't been here long. So, he hasn't been spolling[SIC} the same ole info over and over again. The bigger question is this. Why are you trying to recover money you lost in a scam by scamming others?What J meant was that although Accountant hasn't been on MW for long he has been saying the same stuff on TalkGold as Acountant [SIC] along with PN for a long time

Pay attention......and you really should start using a spell checker
so that you look a little more intelligent

Its steal not steel

[concerned]

Sorry Honest Income. Some of us don't have time to spell check all typos. Maybe you can become Matrix Watch's Chief Annoying Officer along with the banned Ferret.

[HonestIncome]

Sorry Honest Income. Some of us don't have time to spell check all typos. Maybe you can become Matrix Watch's Chief Annoying Officer along with the banned Ferret.
Thanks for the promotion :p amd some of us just know how to spoll :D

Sorry about sending you on the wild goose chase to dictionary.com

concerned
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,750

This means that they haven't told that story yet. I guess everything he said then was a lie, and they will tell you all the real story when he runs away, and the real story is:

Kim INTENDED to steel from you all.
ETC
ETC
ETC

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