or I'll hold my breath until I turn blue!

[Accountant]

Looks like Skye is about to lose it...

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will tell you right now that ganging up on me and the other mods will do you absolutely NO good. You wanna know why? Because WE are your form of communication. We know that we are the ones taking the heat because we are the ones that you see all the time, sometimes we understand that you need to vent and hey why not blow up on the mods right? But man oh man!! Let me tell ya that some things are truly getting out of hand. And we are just as human as any of you. We get mad, glad, happy and sad. If you think that we don't have the same emotions as you, then you'd be wise to think again.

If you want us to leave you all alone, then we can certainly do that. By DEMANDING answers from the folks that #1 are working their tails off to get them for you AND #2 obviously don't have what you want anyway, will get you no where fast. If we do not have what you are looking for then how in God's creation do you expect us to give it to you, huh? When I tell you that I am working on it, that means that I have acknowledged your question and that I am trying to get an answer for you. That simply means that I am not ignoring your question by not replying and walking away. Take it for what it is, for crying out loud!

Let's say that I turn the tables here.... There is suppose to be a newscast this week, maybe I will decide not to do it. Maybe that could have given you some answers, but then again, maybe not. But hey, will you ever know if I don't do it? What if I said.... Who really cares if I blame the whole membership for something that was not caused by the whole membership? Who cares if we decide not to do newscasts nor answer questions in the forums? Is this the answer to this problem? NO!!!

If you want to see what a real lack of communication is, then we can show it. We can vanish and let you all feed one another to the wolves.

Instead... we choose to stay here. Instead... we choose to continue to help, no matter how many people want to come down on us. Because we know that there are some that truly do appreciate what it is that we can do for them!

You will let me know if you want me to come back tomorrow by the way that you treat me tonight.

Skye

NC are you a member? I only wonder because this is the first time you've really posted and this is how you begin your posts? You can PM me your member # and your name if you want to prove that you are.




Someone tell her she herself posted she was "more than just a member, in fact, I'm part of the staff" and I have that post archived. May, just maybe, she's starting to realize that she is very much implicated in a criminal conspiracy. For anyone wanting to start to get your money back, I'd remind you that the courts have on many occasions held that if you relied on advise she posted, she can be held just as responsible for civil damages as can (not C88 discussion) itself. She's in Shoals, Indiana if you're looking for jurisdiction and venue. She also apparently just bought a new house, (seizable asset) and you gotta wonder how much of YOUR money she used to buy it.

[Webwatch]

Maybe Skye could tell the members how to reach CEP staff directly, if she is no more than just a moderator what possible use can she be.

Doesn't she have direct contact details for Trevor, honeymoon or not (most likely not) surely he is contactable, or is she just a lowly gatekeeper who's main purpose is to bluff the victims up untill such a point as it becomes impossible.
Let's say that I turn the tables here.... There is suppose to be a newscast this week, maybe I will decide not to do it.Wow what a weak threat that is, is it only scams that have such an awfull line of communication.

If you want to see what a real lack of communication is, then we can show it. We can vanish and let you all feed one another to the wolves. With all the non answers at the moment I can't see what difference this will make.

Perhaps Skye needs a bit of TLC with all the pressure shes under at the moment.

Maybe its time to stop being so hard on her because she knows nothing.

[Kchang]

can you post that where skye said she is a member of the staff, not just a member

[MtnGrl]

Hey everyone. I really don't have much time to spend with you this morning but I'll throw in what I think in bits and pieces as much as I can.

I don't think Skye knows anything. I think she is very hopeful this will all work out and that she believes it will because it's what she's been told, either by Pamela (who does have daily contact with Trevor and has been friends with him since before CEP started) or by one or more of the upper level admins. (Those of us who have seen countless scams before know that top admins do lie though.)

Skye did indeed make a post in the past such as what Accountant said Kchang but I do not have time to look it up right at the moment. In fact, if Accountant has it archived it would be easier for him to pull it up than for me to go to the forum and search for it.

Accountant, Skye's new house is in Tennessee. It is a foreclosure. She is having a hard time moving into it though, something about the bank and the title. I'd be glad to locate those posts for you all too when I have time later.

[William Wallace]

Skye's new house is already in foreclosure?

How long did she own it?

There is that chance that she is suffering like many others.

Again, while there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that something is wrong at CEP, there still is no hard evidence.

[MtnGrl]

No, William Wallace, she has bought a foreclosure.

And true, right now we all are posting based on past experience and knowledge. There is no hard evidence regarding the CEP programs. It just walks like a duck, that's all.

lol

Okay, I really have to go now. Have a good day everyone.

[littleroundman]

Again, while there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that something is wrong at CEP, there still is no hard evidence.

Well, what a clever observation that is.

Anyone who uses that criteria for determining the "scam or not" status of CEP or most ponzis is in for either a lifetime of disappointment or a quick bankruptcy.

Let's review two of the most recent "ponzis":

Blake Prater (Wellspring Capital) commenced in June 2002. The SEC complaint filed September 2003. Restraining order issued September 8 2003. Settlement reached August 16 2004 ($6million disgorgement, $720,000 fines NO APPEAL) October 3, 2006, Prater pleads guilty to Securities fraud charges brought by the USAG Following FBI, SEC, USPS & IRS investigation. Ordered to pay $3,479,128. March 30 2007, Prater sentenced to 10 years gaol.

Charis Johnson (12 Daily Pro) from mid 2005 operated the 12DP ponzi. SEC complaint filed February 21 2006. Permanent injunction issued February 28 2006 Receiver appointed Case still unheard. Receiver still unable to ascertain total monies involved.

Anyone who's expecting a quick resolution or even explanation of the CEP situation by the SEC is bucking history.

Go to the SEC litigation release website: http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases.shtml
read through a few of the hundreds of releases, compare the "facts" and see how confident you then feel about receiving early information.

[William Wallace]

Littleroundman,

We can't compare CEP to other scams and/or SEC investigations. They are all unique to themselves. Others have been informally investigated and some have been shut down and some have not.

If the SEC issues a C&D then it will all be over. Coming to a conclusion before that, would simply be another speculation.

[littleroundman]

Littleroundman,

We can't compare CEP to other scams and/or SEC investigations. They are all unique to themselves. Others have been informally investigated and some have been shut down and some have not.

If the SEC issues a C&D then it will all be over. Coming to a conclusion before that, would simply be another speculation.

Jer. 5:21 (King James version): "Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."

[William Wallace]

Jer. 5:21 (King James version): "Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."


If you're going to argue then at least argue with your own words.

Please don't insult my intelligence by quoting the bible. This book was written by many men, rewritten, interpreted and translated thousands by many authors. There are so many contradictions in that book that to use it to back up your position only shows how thin your position really is.

Now, you were saying?

[Accountant]

Don't know what he was saying, but I'll say that exactly zero companies have been investigated by the SEC for selling unregistered securities and then later been allowed to have a do-over. I can find no company investigated by the SEC that refused to disclose fininacial information that was allowed to remain in opeeration. I know of no SEC investigation of a company with less than $100 million capitol that was not in the end closed by law enforcement and I can dead promise you the government is not going to allow a ponzi scheme to resume operations.
I told someone before, if you chuck a tire iron over a cliff you may say it's no proof its going to hit the ground, you have to wait for the outcome of the investigation. I know the thing ain't gonna fly from when it was just the idea to throw it. I guess that means I'm not open minded, but to my way of thinking it means you may be a little thick.

[littleroundman]

Hey, I'm not going to argue with you, sweetpea, not for a second.

Go ahead, ignore me, abuse me, cast down plagues and abominations on my unworthy head.

I post the information, whether you or anyone else chooses to accept or deny it is purely up to you or them.

It's your money, your time and your life.

Do with them as you will.

[littleroundman]

Don't know what he was saying,

Jer. 5:21 (King James version): "Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."

Is the original biblical extract from which it is believed the modern saying "THERE IS NONE SO BLIND AS HE THAT WILL NOT SEE" is derived

[William Wallace]

Don't know what he was saying, but I'll say that exactly zero companies have been investigated by the SEC for selling unregistered securities and then later been allowed to have a do-over. I can find no company investigated by the SEC that refused to disclose fininacial information that was allowed to remain in opeeration. I know of no SEC investigation of a company with less than $100 million capitol that was not in the end closed by law enforcement and I can dead promise you the government is not going to allow a ponzi scheme to resume operations.
I told someone before, if you chuck a tire iron over a cliff you may say it's no proof its going to hit the ground, you have to wait for the outcome of the investigation. I know the thing ain't gonna fly from when it was just the idea to throw it. I guess that means I'm not open minded, but to my way of thinking it means you may be a little thick.

Do you know exactly what SEC is looking at? No.

Do you know that CEP refused to disclose financial info? No.

You can't possibly know about all companies the SEC looked at, for whatever reason, if their investigations never made the transition from informal to formal. Nobody has access to informal investigations, even after they are over.

Your analogy is not applicable.

I don't really want to defend CEP, as they have done a terrible job of being professional and respectable but, you are really reaching unsupported conclusions.

[littleroundman]

It is totally irrelevant what Accountant, littleroundman or William Wallace says about CEP, the supposed SEC investigation or whether anyone reads the King James version of the Bible, got married last week, "forgot" to register or even whether CEP is a ponzi, pyramid or legitimate business.

All that the SEC requires AT THIS TIME is to show that CEP falls within one of these definitions:

Congress attempts to define "securities" exhaustively (and not very precisely) as: "any note, stock, treasury stock, security future, bond, debenture, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement or in any oil, gas, or other mineral royalty or lease, any collateral-trust certificate, preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share, investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any interest therein or based on the value thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or in general, any instrument commonly known as a 'security'; or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing; but shall not include currency or any note, draft, bill of exchange, or bankers' acceptance which has a maturity at the time of issuance of not exceeding nine months, exclusive of days of grace, or any renewal thereof the maturity of which is likewise limited." - Section 3a item 10 of the 1934 Act.

The US Courts have developed a broad definition for securities that must then be registered with the SEC. There is an investment of money, a common enterprise and expectation of profits to come primarily from the efforts of others. See SEC v. W.J. Howey Co. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_v._W.J._Howey_Co.) and SEC v. Glenn W. Turner Enterprises, Inc. (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=SEC_v._Glenn_W._Turner_Enterprises %2C_Inc.&action=edit)

That's it, Mr Wallace, that's all they have to do.

CEP and "Trevor" however, have the onerous task of proving they do not fit into one of those categories.

There is plenty of time for the FBI, USPC and IRS to prefer charges at their leisure.

[Accountant]

I do know that at the very least the SEC is looking at unlicensed securities, even the Trevor has admitted as such.
I know that there is no place to see (not C88 discussion) financial information, and the rules are you have to make it public, I'd call that primie facia evidence that they refuse to disclose it.
I have in the past, for more than a decade, practiced forensic accounting in 5 states, in front of the SEC and federal courts including tax courts, have thousands of hours of documenting fraud and am more familiar with fraud investigations than all but a very few (I also hold the designation CFE). You are correct that informal investigations are not public knowledge, but the aggregate numbers from them are in fact availible minus any identification details if you have a CCH subscription, I think they are also accessable from NEXUS but I don't have that, so I wouldn't know.
You and all the sheep over at the (not C88 discussion) forum are the ones who are grasping at straws here, I may not know the dates, or even the paticulars, but I assure you I know where it is all going to end.

[sisco50]

Hey Acct.,

You are right about the most important part. How it will end. Past history/experience has proven it time and time again. The lights are out and there are a lot of people still sitting in the dark waiting for them to come back on. Not gonna happen as Trevor does not control the light switch.

BTW

You the same Acct. from TG?

[Accountant]

Yes, I am.

I predicted long ago that this was going to end very ugly and it will. From my perspective this one scammed a lot more innocents than most online scams, a lot of it is rooted in the religious content, and I have seen stories of recruitment through churches/pastors etc... that you don't get online much.
Anyhow, I've seen a lot more posts on this one about people losing houses, going without food, loing retirement accounts and such. Ugly, the only word to describe it. Also, being US based (Belize? you're kidding, right?) the government is going to have all the data for the members and a lot of people besides Trevor and Clayton are going to get hammered by this one. Go to CattyShaq and read her section on third party promotors, or heck, just read the law. Skye, Pamela, moboking, people like them are going to at the very least have to pay restitution of everything they have taken out, and if it were up to me they'd be facing criminal charges for conspiracy to defraud.
Yeah, I know, it ain't up to me, but read the statutes, a very good argument can be made for moboking, with running the quasi-official update site etc.. same goes for Skye and Pamela. A lot of people in Bowling Green are going to jail, too. I can say with pretty close to absolute surety that anyone, and I mean anyone who made so much as a dime profit is going to have to pay it back and at 12% interest, too. I have a feeling that when these people have to start paying 12% APY they'll not be complaining about how piddly legitimate interest rates are anymore.
Lives are going to be ruined here, for at least a few years to come. I only wish more people over at the (not C88 discussion) forum would begin to see this.

[HonestIncome]

Littleroundman,

We can't compare CEP to other scams and/or SEC investigations. They are all unique to themselves. Others have been informally investigated and some have been shut down and some have not.

If the SEC issues a C&D then it will all be over. Coming to a conclusion before that, would simply be another speculation.

:) Some people have the gift of prophecy and others are just blind

[HonestIncome]

http://www.cepcoast.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1557&start=15

lgr
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 28



unbelievable! we've been had, then...

[HonestIncome]

http://www.cepcoast.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1569

HoneyNotVinager
Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 501
Location: United Kingdom


Just Buzzzzzzzzing in to say


Where do some of you keep finding this garbage............. Instead of listening to what the 'Cave-dwellars' have to say, try reading what is actually true.:crazy:


HNV


Truer words were never said :)

HoneyNotVinager

Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 501
Location: United Kingdom


Just Buzzzzzzzzzzing in to say

Hi Michael

Yes I'm selfish, self-centered, dishonest, untrustworthy, a lier, a thief, a cheat, a crook, was there anything I left off the list Michael, as I wouldn't want you to feel unjustified in any of your ever so true statements........


HNV

HoneyNotVinager
Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 501
Location: United Kingdom


Just Buzzzzzzing in to say

Hi Michael


I believe that you walk upon a very thin line between what you think that you say and what you do in fact say.

Maybe instead of saying what you didn't mean, you should actually have the courage of your convictions and say what you really do mean.

This way everyone would understand what you actually mean, rather than leaving it open to interpretation.

So far as the 'anyone specifically is concerned' and having a conscience............ I would be very careful how far you decide to push your ideals upon others, especially without knowing others.............

HNV

Michael
Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 93


I always say what I mean, and the only people who have trouble with it are those who can't deal with objectivity -- such as you. Is that plain enough? I don't try to push my ideals upon others; that would not be possible since ideals must come from within.

One doesn't need courage to speak the truth, just a willingness to follow one's own convictions -- which I have done and continue to do.

It is people like you who hurt others by trying to keep needed information from them and attacking objectivity with charges of negativity.

My conscience is clear; I have said what needed to be said to protect others. I wonder if referral pimps can say the same now.
HoneyNotVinager

Just Buzzzzzzzzing in to say :p

I think the honey just went off :) and isn't too sweet anymore.......

[Webwatch]

Its about time HNV confessed after being the head shill in CEP.

[HonestIncome]

Check this BS out

http://www.ridingtheponzi.com

Discover How To Take Back The $1000's You Lost In HYIP Investment By Mastering The Art Of "Riding The Ponzi". Fight Back Against These HYIP Scammers


Every single High Yield Investment Program (HYIP), Ponzi, or Pyramid Scheme is a scam. We know that for a fact, however, in the back of our minds, we wonder:

Is there a legitimate way of making money off of these scams?

I’ve asked that myself! NOW I WANT YOU TO DO THE SAME!

The reason is twofold: one, I know how it feels like to lose money on something you felt would give you a profit; and two I am going to tell you how to recoup all the money you’ve lost and some!

But, first, here is my story:

I was broke, living on my best friend’s couch and working some odd jobs, when I came across a few profitable HYIPs. It sounded like a legitimate opportunity with a very high return on my investment. I invested $500.00 upfront. Even the website looked professional and well polished. I went ahead, sent them my e-gold, and waited for my returns to flow through. They never did. Then out of desperation, I kept trying other sites, hoping I might just make my $500.00 back. I searched high and low through every single HYIP, Ponzi, and Pyramid scheme and none of them offered legitimate services. Instead, I kept losing investment after investment, using myself as a Guinea Pig, thinking that, perhaps, there was a way to crack the code! Truthfully, I was in disbelief and kept asking myself the same question, in every given erroneous investment situation, “WHAT HAD I DONE WRONG?”

Acceptance is a tough quality to have when faced with loss. However, after distressing over all the money I had lost, I decided to take a different approach! I thought, “I just kept getting scammed. How could I outsmart them?” I had a few options, but only one would give me my money back: Use Their Poison Against Them To Get My Money Back!

Its only One payment of $27.97

[HonestIncome]

http://www.cepcoast.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1577

lgrob
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 28


SEC vs. CEP HOLDINGS & CEPTRUST, What Now?
the dreaded thing just happened... can they (trevor & co.) still do something to return to the members their money, now that a case against CEP HOldings, Trevor and Clayton and CEP Trust, has been filed by the SEC.... if indeed trevor was serious when he said in the last newscast that, he will do everything to make sure no one loses here...

Ambassador
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 54


I dont know if I still allow myself to believe in what he said. He said many things on the past but seems it didnt came true.

[Webwatch]

I think Trevor may fall a little short on keeping his promises.

If a receiver has been appointed that would be the next point of contact I think for the victims.

If anyone followed the advice given by Accountant and others and got a claim in before the receiver was appointed they may be in luck, for those that ignored it and just listened to the shills (remember Goomba) I'm afraid the chances of receiving any substancial refund is slim.
Or is there still time.

Didn't the site statistics say 16000 members, and now it turns out there was only 5000, whod have thought site stats could be so wrong.

[HonestIncome]

While a lot of CEP members are living on cat food Trevor and
Clayton are sitting pretty

The freeze shall include but not be limited to those funds located in any bank accounts, brokerage accounts, and any other accounts or property of Defendants Reed, Kimbrell, CEP and CEP Trust.

Despite the foregoing, defendants Reed and Kimbrell may expend $4,000 per month each from their respective assets as living expenses for four months following the date of entry of this order;

Thereafter, defendants Reed and Kimbrell may apply to the Court with a signed, sworn statement of financial condition for an amount which the Court may determine may be exempted from the freeze for the purpose of meeting their ordinary and necessary living expenses.

[Webwatch]

Accountant could probably answer this question.
Would this monthly living expenses all be part of the consent decree?
Or is this standard practice.

Also is the protection (limited liability) offered by being an LLC company now void due to the nature of CEP.

[HonestIncome]

:) Interesting

Court documents show Trevor Reed agreed to the C&D order on 7/7/07.

[littleroundman]

Accountant could probably answer this question.
Would this monthly living expenses all be part of the consent decree?
Or is this standard practice.

Also is the protection (limited liability) offered by being an LLC company now void due to the nature of CEP.

Yes, it's certainly part of the decree, and, yes, it's normal practice.
Charis Johnson was allowed USD$10,000 per month as part of her agreement.

Remember, though, that as well as gaol time, compensation and disgorgment will be ordered, so, although it may look as if the lads are sitting pretty, it will be short lived at best.

And, yes, the boys have absolutely NO protection afforded to them by the LLC status of any of their companies.

The complaints list:

CEP HOLDINGS, INC., D/B/A
COLONENDPARENTHESIS.NET,
TREVOR REED,
CLAYTON KIMBRELL
COLON END PARENTHESIS TRUST, LLC,

as Defendants.

LLC status does NOT protect the owners, directors or shareholders against prosecution for illegal activity.

Broadly speaking, the use of the term is generally:

Limited liability is a concept whereby a person's financial liability is limited to a fixed sum, most commonly the value of a person's investment in a company or partnership with limited liability. A shareholder in a limited liability company is not personally liable for any of the debts of the company, other than for the value of his investment in that company. The same is true for the members of a limited liability partnership and the limited partners in a limited partnership. By contrast, sole proprietors and partners in general partnerships are each liable for all the debts of the business (unlimited liability).

Although a shareholder's liability for the company's actions is limited, the shareholder may still be liable for its own acts. For example, the directors of small companies (who are frequently also shareholders) are frequently required to give personal guarantees of the company's debts to those lending to the company. They will then be liable for those debts in the event that the company cannot pay, though the other shareholders will not be so liable.

The next question is going to be: How long until the rest of the "CEP Group" bite the dust???

Especially since, as clearly shown in the complaint was filed and entered on July 7

[Ponzi Nemesis]

[...]The next question is going to be: How long until the rest of the "CEP Group" bite the dust???[...]Given that CEP Trust is the only way to move money into or out from any of the "CEP Group" programs, and that the SEC has frozen CEP Trust's assets, then CEP Coast and Coastin' 88 are completely dead. The ability to purchase new adpacks was removed from both sites yesterday, and they have no way to pay out.

CEP, in its entirety, is now dead.

[Webwatch]

coastin88 offline.
Perhaps its just server problems. :)

[mitrod3]

I just got off the phone with one of the first of the CEP folks (a friend) who has realized what is happening. He had just gotten in a few weeks ago. Needless to say it is not good situation for him or for some of the other folks here. I expect to be talking with a number of them during the day and this evening as the fallout falls out. What a mess.

[Kchang]

Its official... the SEC has frozen all accounts @ CEP.

[HonestIncome]

blueboy22
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 69



Hate to say it but , if anyone wants to say goodbye, say it soon and lets meet up at mmg forum.

I was just there and read the whole thing so, while I have the chance... goodbye

Bye the way anyone know where I can make back my $5,000 ? pm me if you do .

Thanks Steve

Here we go again..........some people never learn and just keep
diigging ever bigger holes

So if there were only 5000 CEP cultist then I think the CEP Forum
had almost 5000 members (4,600???) before it got "privatised"

[Accountant]

By listing (not C88 discussion) Holdings, and also Trevor and Clayton, the order has made them jointly and separately liable, so yes, all of (not C88 discussion) is dead. This will also kill the other programs that used Trust as a payment processor, they cannot avoid being dragged into it by the financial connections they've made. The order also as I said it would call for disgorgement of illegal profits, so they living expense they are allowed will have to be paid back, though I would bet they don't realize this and think it's free money. And of course, this is just a civil complaint, they have yet to even find out about the criminal complaint. Trevor and Clayton are going to jail, my bet in the pool is 10 years each and federal prisons don't have parole. Maybe they can find a nice little Baptist prison for them.

[Accountant]

Do you know exactly what SEC is looking at? No.

Do you know that CEP refused to disclose financial info? No.

You can't possibly know about all companies the SEC looked at, for whatever reason, if their investigations never made the transition from informal to formal. Nobody has access to informal investigations, even after they are over.

Your analogy is not applicable.

I don't really want to defend CEP, as they have done a terrible job of being professional and respectable but, you are really reaching unsupported conclusions.

you were saying?

[HonestIncome]

darquoy
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 23
Location: Europe


cdawg wrote:
What forum was that which has the post?

secondly the SEC does not have the power to do that. they would need a court order and the DOJ would have to be involved.



Now seems the SEC HAS that Court Order since July 9:

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-ncedce/case_no-5:2007cv00256/case_id-89451/

Even CEPT is their target: they cowardly were waiting Trevor's departure to their honeymoon to let the cat out of the bag... :crazy:

Never forget this: once a door gets closed anotherone will always open (DSP - Desert Sky Profits)

_________________
3 Steps 2 Surf 4 Cash
Here is the next PONZI SCAM the the CEPers are already in

Desert Sky Profits

So who is going to call the SEC this time?

PS: Where is that genius ponzi pimp Executive / JeffM ?
Has he got into the Gifting Scheme he was talking about yet?

[Accountant]

DSP was to use (notC88 discussion) as a processor, the SEC is already called.

[HonestIncome]

DSP was to use (notC88 discussion) as a processor, the SEC is already called.

http://www.cattyshaq.com/forum/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3485&start=225

http://desertskyforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=1125&sid=c3c98532b9797919f866a8553c98865e

Dust
DesertSky Administrator
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 807
Location: Arizona


DesertSky Marketing is part of the CEP family. However, DesertSky Network is still fully owned and operated by me.

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Member input on investment vehicles. All members will vote on investment vehicles, have the opportunity to suggest investment vehicles, and the ability to participate in investment vehicle discussions.
View a monthly profit/loss statement for all investment vehicles.
Access to a member's only forum. The forum will contain information about each investment vehicle, educational discussions, an area to suggest and discuss investments, and an information area about each approved DSP investment.
Weekly/Monthly/Bi-Monthly dividends depending on the investment vehicle.
Members will be able to request a cashout at the beginning of each month.


DesertSky Profits will be 100% legal under the guidelines of the SEC and the Arizona Corporation Commission before one penny is accepted.

How much can you expect to earn each month?

Dividends will vary depending on the performance of the voted/approved investment vehicles. Some investments will have lower risk and, therefore, will have the potential to earn lower dividends. Some investments will have a higher risk and have the potential to earn much higher dividends.
Based on the three initial investments that the club members will be voting on, members have the potential to earn 15-30% profit or more per month.
Realize that DSP members are participating in REAL investments and will share all the rewards of profits and the risks of losses for each investment vehicle.
DSP does not offer you a set monthly %. We will all share in the rewards and/or losses for each investment vehicle. You know what the investment vehicles are and their past performance. You will make an educated decision to participate.
Monthly returns could be higher or lower than 15-30% profit per month. It really will depend on the performance of each investment.

DesertSky Profits Club Membership Agreement

This MEMBERSHIP AGREEMENT is effective as of the date the member agrees and joins DesertSky Profits.

NOW, THEREFORE IT IS AGREED:

Formation. The undersigned hereby form an agreement in accordance with and subject to the laws of the State of Arizona.


Term. The agreement shall begin on the date and time the member joins DesertSky Profits and shall continue until December 31 of the same year and thereafter from year to year unless earlier terminated as hereinafter provided.


Purpose. The only purpose of the agreement is to invest with other members the assets of DesertSky Profits solely in stocks, bonds, foreign exchange and other securities for the education and benefit of the members as a whole.


Meetings. Periodic meetings shall be held as determined by the members.


Capital Contributions. The members may make capital contributions to the club each month in such amounts as the membership shall determine.


Value of the Agreement. The current value of the assets of the agreement, less the current value of the liabilities of the agreement, (hereinafter referred to as the “value of the agreement”) shall be determined as of a regularly scheduled date and time (“valuation date”) preceding the date of each periodic meeting determined by the Club.


Capital Accounts. A capital account shall be maintained in the name of each member. Any increase or decrease in the value of the agreement on any valuation date shall be credited or debited, respectively, to each member’s capital account on that date. Any other method of valuating each member’s capital account may be substituted for this method, provided the substituted method results in exactly the same valuation as previously provided herein. Each member’s contribution to, or capital withdrawal from, the agreement shall be credited, or debited, respectively, to that member’s capital account.


Management. Each member shall participate in the management and conduct of the affairs of the club in equal proportion. One member, one vote. Majority rules. Except as otherwise determined, all decisions shall be made by the members who actively participate and vote on the decisions.


Membership Participation. Each member is required to actively participate in the club in the following ways:

(a) Register for, and participate in, the DesertSky Profits Member’s Only Forum (http://www.dspmembersforum.net).

(b) Each member is expected to vote on investment vehicles.

(c) Each member has the opportunity to suggest, discuss, and vote on club investment vehicles via the DesertSky Profits Member’s Only Forum.

(d) Each member will pay a $5.00 monthly membership fee in order to gain access to their DesertSky Profits back office (http://www.desertskyprofits.net) and a member's only forum (http://www.dspmembersforum.net).

(e) Each member is required to invest a minimum of $10.00 total per month in the voted on and selected investment vehicles.

Sharing of Profits and Losses. Net profits and losses of the agreement shall inure to, and be borne by, the members, in proportion to the value of each of their capital accounts.


Books of Account. Books of account of the transactions of the agreement shall be kept and at all times be available and open to inspection and examination by any member.


Annual Accounting. Each calendar year, a full and complete account of the condition of the agreement shall be made to the members.


Bank Account. The members may select a bank for the purpose of opening a bank account. Funds in the bank account shall be withdrawn by checks signed by any member designated by the agreement or by Visa/Debit card being used by any member designated by the agreement.


Broker Account. None of the members of this agreement shall be a broker. However, the members may select a broker and enter into such agreements with the broker as required for the purchase or sale of securities. Securities owned by the membership shall be registered in the Club’s name unless another name shall be designated by the agreement.

At the time of a transfer of securities, the corporation or transfer agent is entitled to assume (1) that the agreement is still in existence and (2) that this Agreement is in full force and effect and has not been amended unless the corporation has received written notice to the contrary.


No Compensation. No member shall be individually compensated for services rendered to the club, except reimbursement for expenses.


Additional Partners. Additional partners may be admitted at any time, upon two-thirds majority consent of the members.


Transfers to a Trust. A member may, after giving written notice to the club, transfer his/her interest in the membership to a revocable living trust of which he/she is the grantor and sole trustee.


Removal of a Member. Any member may be removed by agreement of the members whose capital accounts total a majority of the value of all members’ capital accounts. Email notice of a meeting where removal of a member is to be considered shall include a specific reference to this matter. The removal shall become effective upon payment of the value of the removed member’s capital account, which shall be in accordance with the provisions on full withdrawal of a member noted in paragraphs 20 and 22. The vote action shall be treated as receipt of request for withdrawal.


Termination of Agreement. The agreement/membership may be terminated by agreement of the members whose capital accounts total a majority in value of the capital accounts of all the members. Written notice of a meeting where termination of the agreement is to be considered shall include a specific reference to this matter. The agreement shall terminate upon a majority vote of all members’ capital accounts. Email notice of the decision to terminate the agreement shall be given to all the members. Payment shall then be made of all the liabilities of the club and a final distribution of the remaining assets either in cash or in kind, shall promptly be made to the members or their personal representatives in proportion to each member’s capital account.


Voluntary Withdrawal (Partial or Full) of a Member. Any partner may withdraw a part or all of the value of his/her capital account in the club and the club shall continue as a taxable entity. The member withdrawing a part or all of the value of his/her capital account shall give notice of such intention by requesting their withdrawal via their back office on the seventh or eighth day of each month. Withdraw notices shall be deemed to be received one business day after the request is made.

In making payment, the value of the member’s capital account is set forth in the valuation statement prepared at the beginning of each month. The club shall pay the member who is withdrawing a portion or all of the value of his/her capital account from the club in accordance with paragraph 22 of this Agreement.


Death or Incapacity of a Partner. In the event of the death or incapacity of a member (or the death or incapacity of the grantor and sole trustee of a revocable living trust, if such trust is member pursuant to Paragraph 16A hereof), receipt of notice shall be treated as a notice of full withdrawal.


Terms of Payment. In the case of a partial or full withdrawal, payment will be made in cash, via club company check or bank wire, or in the e-currency the member selects upon making their withdraw request. Withdraw requests made by the 8th of the month are scheduled to be completed by the 20th of each month.


Forbidden Acts. No member shall:

(a) Have the right or authority to bind or obligate the club to any extent whatsoever with regard to any matter outside the scope of the agreement purpose.

(b) Except as provided in paragraph 17, without the two-thirds majority consent of all the other members, assign, transfer, pledge, mortgage or sell all or part of his/her interest in the club to any other member or other person whomsoever, or enter into any agreement as the result of which any person or persons not a member shall become interested with him in the agreement.

(c) Purchase an investment for the club where less than the full purchase price is paid for same.

(d) Use the club name, credit, or property for other than club purposes.

(e) Do any act detrimental to the interests of the club or which would make it impossible to carry on the business or affairs of the club.

(f) Advertise the club on the Internet in any manner, including in any auto-surf/hyip monitoring sites, auto-surf/traffic exchange sites, or blogs.

(g) Share club documents, terms, or reports with non-members.

(h) Allow any other person or entity, except as provided in paragraph 17, access to their DesertSky Profits member account and/or their DesertSky Profits forum account.

This Agreement of Membership shall be binding upon the respective heirs, executors, administrators and personal representatives of the club.

The members have caused this Agreement of Membership to be executed on July 9, 2007, effective as of the date the prospective member clicks the agree button and joins the club.

[Accountant]

He may get 5,000 people to believe it. He may even be stupid enough to think he isn't being looked at by the (not C88 discussion).
These guys will not be going down in history as the smartest scammers.

[HonestIncome]

He may get 5,000 people to believe it. He may even be stupid enough to think he isn't being looked at by the (not C88 discussion).
These guys will not be going down in history as the smartest scammers.

He may get 5,000 people to believe it. He may even be stupid enough to think he isn't being looked at by the SEC
These guys will not be going down in history as the smartest scammers

You are just confusing people with your inside joke :p

[William Wallace]

Originally Posted by William Wallace View Post
Do you know exactly what SEC is looking at? No.

Do you know that CEP refused to disclose financial info? No.

You can't possibly know about all companies the SEC looked at, for whatever reason, if their investigations never made the transition from informal to formal. Nobody has access to informal investigations, even after they are over.

Your analogy is not applicable.

I don't really want to defend CEP, as they have done a terrible job of being professional and respectable but, you are really reaching unsupported conclusions.

you were saying?

Well, to say this sucks would be an understatement. To say it was a surprise would be a stretch. :(

As I said, I wasn't defending Trevor or CEP. I had many suspicions. What I was saying is still applicable. None of us knew what was going on behind the scenes, no matter what you THINK you knew, until they came out and made their statement. While you were right, like so many others, we certainly couldn't bet the farm that you were right!

Now that the SEC has issued their dreaded C&D, that puts the first nail in Trevor, Clayton and CEP's coffin. And I say they couldn't come down on them hard enough!

Besides the stolen deposits and lost earnings what jumps out at me is just how anti-Christian Trevor acted. He not flat out lied to all of us, about many very important issues to get more people to deposit, including his faithful mods. It will be interesting to see what Skye and Pamela have to say about this, if they ever say anything at all.

Now, I'd like to know what steps we all should take, who to file a complaint with, to get our money back?

And yes, this is VERY ugly!!!

This is the problem I have with people hanging their hats on the proposed religious beliefs of others. I wasn't in for a lot but, enough to make me very mad. Many others put more in this because Trevor and his band of merry Christians could not be doubted... simply because they are "religious"! Puke! Those who trusted this gang simply because of this religious slant are the ones that should be REALLY mad. They have been taken advantage of financially as well as religiously.

And, now we'll see how many people, like those with badges!, knock on Trevor's door. Does my other post now make more sense to those of you who "reported me" to Watchdog?

WW

[littleroundman]

What I was saying is still applicable. None of us knew what was going on behind the scenes, no matter what you THINK you knew, until they came out and made their statement. While you were right, like so many others, we certainly couldn't bet the farm that you were right!

Wanna bet ????

If the complaint was issued on July 7, just how long do you think the SEC were "in there" ????

And, why do you think they were looking ???

It is TRULY amazing how an apparently smart guy like you was prepared to lay down money on the word of people like Trevor and Clayton, yet still wants to argue the point with people who stood to gain nothing from warning others, but were proven 100% right.

[Accountant]

This is not a Cease and desist, that is just an injunction and can be contested, this is a Consent Decree, which is more like pleading "nolo contende or No Contest in traffic court, ie: you don't admit anything but you still loose. The reason you do so is to limit to as much extent as possible your future contingent liability. In this case, that means they are not going to enter a confession in a Civil Matter that can be used against them later ina criminal trial. This also means there is not argument as to law on the matter, a federal court has legally declared CEP and all it's affiliate entities, as well as Clayton and Trevor to be fraudulent enterprises, and without any objection from the defendents. For a consent decree, it's fairly harshely worded, too. The SEC could have gotten all it needed to on the unlicensed securities charges, but also chose for whatever reason to make several specifications of Fraud.

LRM, I'm gathering my thoughts on the timing and some of what that could mean, I think it's very interesting.....

[William Wallace]

Wanna bet ????

If the complaint was issued on July 7, just how long do you think the SEC were "in there" ????

And, why do you think they were looking ???

It is TRULY amazing how an apparently smart guy like you was prepared to lay down money on the word of people like Trevor and Clayton, yet still wants to argue the point with people who stood to gain nothing from warning others, but were proven 100% right.

Say WHAAAAT?!?!?!

I'm not arguing. Is that what you want? I simply explained my position because you didn't seem capable of understanding it. I was giving you a helping hand because that's just the kind of guy I am. :) As our legal system says "innocent 'till proven guilty", nobody really knew what the SEC, or any organization, was doing or was going to do until they told us. That includes you. It's true that there were certainly many red flags. But, that was all.

[Accountant]

He may get 5,000 people to believe it. He may even be stupid enough to think he isn't being looked at by the SEC
These guys will not be going down in history as the smartest scammers

You are just confusing people with your inside joke :p

Yes, you're right, I think it's time to let it go....

[HonestIncome]

This pretty much sums it all up.......

albion
View Member Profile Today, 07:54 AM Post #2998
MMG Member
Group: Members
Posts: 86
Joined: 3-December 06
Member No.: 83,377
Gender: Undisclosed
Favorite Money Making Moment: My favourite moment does not involve money. Money is very necessary but it is not the Be all and End all.


QUOTE(Shiver @ Jul 11 2007, 04:38 AM)
I would like these people to pay for what they have done:
Trevor Reed
Clayton Kimbrell
Chris Barany
Skye
Pamela

Goldkitty if you could please go after these people, I know about 10,000 people would appreciate it.

Lets face it. Trevor is a lying SOB.

He told us he had 16000 members - when there were only 5000,

he deliberately failed to keep proper accounts of the movement of funds,

he was not investing in bricks and mortar business like he claimed,

he was just throwing money at ponzis.

He told us he was making 4 times what he paid investors when when he didnt.

He lied,

he deceived,

he cheated.

I hope that he reaps a 100 times the misery that he has willfully inflicted on thousands of trusting innocent people. I hope that his marriage proves to be a disaster and that his name is dirt for the rest of his miserable life. And if that bloody seminary still accepts him after the way that he is behaved then that says heaps about his church.

And what about all the creepy BS on the CEP forum. Those sanctimonious admins censoring those who spoke their minds because we smelt a rat. They did it by calling us "negative". They did it by claiming that we were just malicious people trying to sabotage the program. Yes all you paid up staff who peddled his propaganda - You lot share his guilt.


Oh and before any smartass accuses me of not having had a stake in CEP - yes. I lost 8k too. 8k

I was trying to use to support me and three kids with special needs. And yes for sure I am as mad as hell that that snotty little creep deliberately deceived me and thousands of other trusting fools.

He forgot to say Trevor claimed $20 million but the SEC says only $12 million

[Webwatch]

Although 5,000 accounts has been stated by the SEC I have a feeling a lot of these accounts where used to place investments (losses) for multiple people so the Irony I suppose is that the true victim count coud be closer to 16,000.

[HonestIncome]

Although 5,000 accounts has been stated by the SEC I have a feeling a lot of these accounts where used to place investments (losses) for multiple people so the Irony I suppose is that the true victim count coud be closer to 16,000.
Maybe, but a lot of CEPers had an account for the
Husband
Wife
Kid/s
Church / Business
So they could put more money in and max out

[mitrod3]

Maybe, but a lot of CEPers had an account for the
Husband
Wife
Kid/s
Church / Business
So they could put more money in and max out

Yep...it was even being "sold" that way here as a way to really hit the big bucks.

We did not bite on the promo's......but others here did.

[littleroundman]

Although 5,000 accounts has been stated by the SEC I have a feeling a lot of these accounts where used to place investments (losses) for multiple people so the Irony I suppose is that the true victim count coud be closer to 16,000.

Unfortunately, this is where the "members" truly find out how a HYIP/ponzi runs.

Early "playas" invariably set up as many as 20 or 30 accounts under false names, transfer their "earnings" quickly through several accounts such as E-Gold etc, also under false names, then cash out way in advance of any SEC actions.

This makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for the receiver to reclaim such monies to add into the "pool" for redistribution at the conclusion of the receivership. It also adds to the receivers costs, as he is forced to try and unravel the money trail, particularly given the lack of records already noted in the complaint.

[Accountant]

Ah, but this is not like that. They may not have kept good records of the investments etc...(of course, there were no real investments outside other ponzi schemes) but they required very detailed information from the members for their CEP Trust accounts, something that the members will now be either very thankful for or very sorry for, depending on how much they got out the other end...

[HonestIncome]

Unfortunately, this is where the "members" truly find out how a HYIP/ponzi runs.

Early "playas" invariably set up as many as 20 or 30 accounts under false names, transfer their "earnings" quickly through several accounts such as E-Gold etc, also under false names, then cash out way in advance of any SEC actions..
For those that have studied CEP with the Way Back Machine you
see that there were very few (claimed) members and money until
fairly recently
I think 1900 in Dec 2006

Just imagine if CEP had kept going for another 6 months or more?

The only good PONZI is a dead PONZI and this one ended about as
well as it could under the circumstances.
Unlike YMMSS the SEC did what they are supposed to do

As a cynic I think this was because CEP was still flush with cash
unlike YMMSS which had stalled for a long time and the money
would be hard to find
IE: A big mess and KIm Inman to this day has got off scott free

30 Members: Taj, GoldKitty, janka440, maxipooh, deadgrassdog, TnGroundhog, MichaelW, leaffan81, LucasWorkshop, erdnan, crachau, SuperCoolCat-dot-com, letsearn4ever, jcfree, azgary, mommyk, Earning, lerno, beresterk, britney, Shiver, bullus, HoneyNotVinager, worshipjesusglory, TheLastCeuntry, tx015, NaaszFamily, coachb, slb5, TheGASMAN

Seems like the biggest Ponzi Pimps don't have much to say for themselves

[HonestIncome]

I wish the math wiz Arzel was here

How much money do you think

Trevor Reed
Ginger Reed?
Earl Reed
Clayton
Etc
made on this scam?

Where is their money?

Will Trevor pay everyone back as promised? :rolleyes:

Do you think Earl Reed is proud of his boy today?

What is the semenary going to say about Trevor Reed becoming a minister?

Will the blood of Jesus wash him clean?

Did Trevor worship money more than Jesus?

Did Trevor and Ginger really get married which would be a public record?

Will they live happily ever after?

Will the main Ponzi Pimps have anything to say or just slink away?

Will the YMMSS "victims" that repeated on CEP do it again?

Will this be my last scam bust? :p

[Accountant]

I'm betting that "Earl" and the others don't even exist, or not as portrayed anyhow. I hope he didn't use his father's real name if so, ow do you remove the stain of having your name dragged into a fraud by your own son?
As to how much they made, 20% is as good a guess as any so $2.4 million give or take. There isn't anything left though, it's been painfully obvious since they last allowed new suckers in that they had a cash flow crisis. I think that the fact they kept the surfs open until the bitter end shows they needed the daily cash flow just to live on.
I am very curious as to whether there was a wedding....does anyone know WHERE it was to be held? I can check public records if I know the county.

[HonestIncome]

This post by one of my favorite ponzi pimps fits right into
the theme of this thread I'll hold my breath until I turn blue! :D

Can 077770 really be that stupid? :crazy:

SuperCoolCat-dot...
SuperCoolCat-dot-com
View Member Profile Today, 10:13 AM Post #3015
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From: Pittsburgh, PA - US(A)
Member No.: 8,214
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Favorite Money Making Moment: 9/11
Amount of hours spent on the MMG forums daily?: 4-6 Hours

Trevor and Clayton are good, honest, people with noble intent. The Christianity is not a front. CEP is not a ponzi. :crazy:

...Based on his recent actions, however, I'm gonna go ahead and say that I think Trevor is a little close-minded, not very aware, and kind of ignorant. There is some correlation between this and his hardcore Christian belief structure.

If the foundation of your reality is tainted with fear and lies...the truth can sometimes be quite cloudy. Ultimately, Trevor made a few really stupid decisions...and took some really bad advice.

Stopping Payouts - and staying in the USA. for all he had to do was keep paying people, and skip town.:crazy: :rolleyes: Instead, he trusted an evil organization powered by forces of darkness. Good, Innocent Trevor has no idea how to play their game. Has he been blinded by the dark side? They are playing him like a pawn. :crazy: :D

Personally, I don't think Jesus was a wine-drinking meat-eating childless one-and-only lord and savior -

Nor do I think any US governmental agency should ever be trusted, let alone be handed over the lives of your 144,000 finest on a silver platter.... especially on Gregorian 7/7/2007 ! :eek:

This is not about CEP - 10,000[SIC] members - and some $12 million dollars - or even CEP Holdings, and some $300 Million Dollars :rolleyes: ...even a rogue billion dollar underground money making industry....

for the existence of CEP has huge galactic, eternal consequences far beyond the grasp of most mortals. :eek:

Sadly the answer is yes........;)

I am very serious when I say that my diagnosis is mental illness

[Webwatch]

I'm not quite sure how deep brainwashing can go but we are talking serious delusion here.

Was Trevor really that convincing.
Maybe its a force of habit and sccd cant stop the pro-CEP posts from flowing on MMG.

Galactic, eternal consequences: :eek: Is this an extension of Chaos theory or just perhaps one episode of Star Trek to many.
Beam me up: Trevy.
Back to the Starship Dodgy Ponzi Enterprise for this guy.

[Accountant]

I am .........

speechless

This is a person who needs to be medically supervised

[surfer]

Well, it looks like he is/has been in some
wonderful programs like:

Better Universe
EZ Wealth By Design
YMMSS
Big Money Pro
Custom Super Homes
FrutaVida
Empowerism
Cash Culture
Invex
ProWealthBuilder
1StepSystem
OPFM

and countless other garbage opps and scams.

Perhaps Gamblers Anonymous could help. :head:

[HonestIncome]

surfer, that would be Scam A Holics

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Colon-Parenthesis-www-t26321.html&st=3030

worshipjesusglor...
worshipjesusglory
View Member Profile Today, 04:15 PM Post #3043
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QUOTE(Lennyw @ Jul 11 2007, 05:10 PM)
So which program is MW's next target for the SEC? Any ideas so I stay clear.?

Ferret on another Forum mention Desert Sky Profits.
They said the call has been made to the SEC.
http://www.cattyshaq.com/forum/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3485&start=225

I think its also on MW as well.

Here's the link
http://www.matrixwatch.com/forums/showthre...p;highlight=DSP
Don't forget to watch who Accountant and Ponzi Nemisis are picking on at TalkGold too

[eigga99]

My dad lost a great deal with this scam. I was fortunate not to believe the hype because of lessons he taught me growing up. If it seems too good to be true....it is. I think he allowed himself to be taken because of the religious aspect. I am new to this and was wondering if this is common to these scams or did "Trevor" tap into a new area of human weakness? Reading the posts makes me wonder. How can I help defunk these scams and help protect innocent people? Where do you find out about these new scams? My dad got signed up through a religious friend at work that had been getting paid. I ignored his talk until things started to go bad and I realized how much he had at stake. I think this is a great site for trying to protect so many people.

[Accountant]

My dad lost a great deal with this scam. I was fortunate not to believe the hype because of lessons he taught me growing up. If it seems too good to be true....it is. I think he allowed himself to be taken because of the religious aspect. I am new to this and was wondering if this is common to these scams or did "Trevor" tap into a new area of human weakness? Reading the posts makes me wonder. How can I help defunk these scams and help protect innocent people? Where do you find out about these new scams? My dad got signed up through a religious friend at work that had been getting paid. I ignored his talk until things started to go bad and I realized how much he had at stake. I think this is a great site for trying to protect so many people.


www.talkgold.com/forum
www.moneymakergroup.com

That should keep you busy for a few decades....

[Sucker in ATL]

did "Trevor" tap into a new area of human weakness?

No. It's been around for ages. The dynamics of this whole thing are impressive. Religious people need to take their institutions back from the crooks. Communication about faith based scams in churches would be a good way. You could tell yours about what happened to your dad. Pure ignorance, including my own, is to blame.

This resource was available in ample time to get out but nobody wanted to believe what they knew to be true. These are human institutions that don't require faith to validate. Simple arithmetic or a $50 dollar accountant could have told you that the business model supplied was smoke and mirrors.

It aint about good intentions or any of that. Trevor like Ponzi probably saw a way to help a boatload of people but in the end, the scam became it's own animal. I think he got in over his head and shot for the moon, just like Ponzi.

I've learned a lot in the last few days reading this form and the moneymaker thread. There is a well read audience that is understandably the most silent through all of this and those are the ones that knew that this program was going to end and the window to get in and out was less than a year. They play the game. The ones that lasted the whole time AND THEN became cheerleaders AFTER the word SEC and INVESTIGATION came anywhere near the program are the ones that are the real scumbags in my opinion. Because this signals the death knell of the HYIP and it's time to cash out.

These are the guys that know that people are throwing in their life savings on a program that will ultimately go the Ponzi route. They know exactly what is going to happen because they have seen it time and time again.

Nobody yells at them they yell at the whistle blowers. Oh the irony. and scumbags hate the party poopers and even work to get the party poopers banned by recruiting unwitting cheerleaders.

The best advice I have seen for this kind of program, if you have to participate, is to get in early, get your initial deposit back and then play with the house money. Treat every one like a scam and you can still make money at it but don't be a scumbag and convince granny she needs to put house on the market and get in 9 months into it. :nono:

I recommend anybody who feels duped by this program to read the Matrixwatch and Moneymaker threads that quote all CEP forums and try to do so objectively. Then decide who the bad guys are in this. Anybody who doesn't put part of the blame on themselves is asking to be duped again.

[Accountant]

The best advice I have seen for this kind of program, if you have to participate, is to get in early, get your initial deposit back and then play with the house money. Treat every one like a scam and you can still make money at it but don't be a scumbag and convince granny she needs to put house on the market and get in 9 months into it.

And that is the problem....what you're saying is it's alright to steal, just be quiet and it's a matter of timing? In a ponzi scheme there are 2 types of people, the ones who know what's going on and are trying to time it correctly, the THIEFS, and those who don't know what's going on and believe the hype, the VICTIMS. Granny is going to invest and someone's granny is going to invest more than she can afford to lose, acting like it doesn't matter that you stole here money because you didn't convince her to hand it over, someone else did, is still at the very least receiving stolen goods.
As someone's signature tag here says, "All it takes for evil to prevail is for Good Men to do nothing"

And don't try to defend good ole Trevor and Clayton...they didn't even keep good records, and insisted all along they "complied with SEC Regulations because we agree with them" There was no good intention here, no effort to help the little guy, no charity, this was simply a criminal scheme to separate people from their money by fraudulent means. The only people they were trying to help was themselves and as has been pointed out, they were spending their cut of what may be upwards of a million dollars while their beloved "members" were losing homes and going without FOOD AND MEDICINE. They abused people's religious faith to steal from them, and for my part a US prison is too good for them, regrettably they didn't get caught in China, Singapore or Saudi Arabia where they aren't so squeamish about "cruel and unusual punishment"

Don't just say people began to realize it when they stopped payments on May 18th either, go all the way back to at least when they took new members in January...you do see now that they only did it because they needed the cash, don't you? You also see that 2/3 of their claimed membership (bearing no relation the actual members, but I'm getting to that) joined after the first of the year? Think of the implications of that, it blows out of the water any argument that "it would have been a great long term program if the SEC hadn't shut it down" because even using their own numbers, there is no way that those 2/3 could have gotten back their initial investment.

These are evil people taking advantage of fools, educate the fools but wipe out the evil when the chance arises.

[littleroundman]

In answer to:
I am new to this and was wondering if this is common to these scams or did "Trevor" tap into a new area of human weakness? Reading the posts makes me wonder.

Affinity Fraud:
How To Avoid Investment Scams That Target Groups
What is an Affinity Fraud?

Affinity fraud refers to investment scams that prey upon members of identifiable groups, such as religious or ethnic communities, the elderly, or professional groups. The fraudsters who promote affinity scams frequently are - or pretend to be - members of the group. They often enlist respected community or religious leaders from within the group to spread the word about the scheme, by convincing those people that a fraudulent investment is legitimate and worthwhile. Many times, those leaders become unwitting victims of the fraudster's ruse.

These scams exploit the trust and friendship that exist in groups of people who have something in common. Because of the tight-knit structure of many groups, it can be difficult for regulators or law enforcement officials to detect an affinity scam. Victims often fail to notify authorities or pursue their legal remedies, and instead try to work things out within the group. This is particularly true where the fraudsters have used respected community or religious leaders to convince others to join the investment.

Many affinity scams involve "Ponzi" or pyramid schemes, where new investor money is used to make payments to earlier investors to give the false illusion that the investment is successful. This ploy is used to trick new investors to invest in the scheme and to lull existing investors into believing their investments are safe and secure. In reality, the fraudster almost always steals investor money for personal use. Both types of schemes depend on an unending supply of new investors - when the inevitable occurs, and the supply of investors dries up, the whole scheme collapses and investors discover that most or all of their money is gone.

How To Avoid Affinity Fraud

Investing always involves some degree of risk. You can minimize your risk of investing unwisely by asking questions and getting the facts about any investment before you buy. To avoid affinity and other scams, you should:

* Check out everything - no matter how trustworthy the person seems who brings the investment opportunity to your attention. Never make an investment based solely on the recommendation of a member of an organization or religious or ethnic group to which you belong. Investigate the investment thoroughly and check the truth of every statement you are told about the investment. Be aware that the person telling you about the investment may have been fooled into believing that the investment is legitimate when it is not.

* Do not fall for investments that promise spectacular profits or "guaranteed" returns. If an investment seems too good to be true, then it probably is. Similarly, be extremely leery of any investment that is said to have no risks; very few investments are risk-free. The greater the potential return from an investment, the greater your risk of losing money. Promises of fast and high profits, with little or no risk, are classic warning signs of fraud.

* Be skeptical of any investment opportunity that is not in writing. Fraudsters often avoid putting things in writing, but legitimate investments are usually in writing. Avoid an investment if you are told they do "not have the time to reduce to writing" the particulars about the investment. You should also be suspicious if you are told to keep the investment opportunity confidential.

* Don't be pressured or rushed into buying an investment before you have a chance to think about - or investigate - the "opportunity." Just because someone you know made money, or claims to have made money, doesn't mean you will too. Be especially skeptical of investments that are pitched as "once-in-a-lifetime" opportunities, particularly when the promoter bases the recommendation on "inside" or confidential information.

* Fraudsters are increasingly using the Internet to target particular groups through e-mail spams. If you receive an unsolicited e-mail from someone you don't know, containing a "can't miss" investment, your best move is to pass up the "opportunity" and forward the spam to us at enforcement@sec.gov.

Recent Affinity Fraud Schemes

Affinity frauds can target any group of people who take pride in their shared characteristics, whether they are religious, ethnic, or professional. Senior citizens also are not immune from such schemes. The SEC has investigated and taken quick action against affinity frauds targeting a wide spectrum of groups. Some of our cases include the following:

Ponzi scheme solicited elderly members of Jehovah’s Witnesses congregations

The SEC complaint alleges that the defendants operated a Ponzi scheme and used investor funds to pay lavish personal expenses. The defendants raised over $16 million from more than 190 investors nationwide. Many of the victims were elderly members of Jehovah’s Witnesses congregations and were promised returns of up to 75 percent.

Fraudulent real estate investment scheme directed at retirees

SEC charged various real estate investment companies and their principals with defrauding senior citizens and retirees out of $15 million by conducting transactions in which they issued promissory notes in real estate investments they owned and operated. To make the sales, the defendants made gross misrepresentations about the financial conditions of their investment companies.

Ponzi scheme targeted African-Americans and Christians

Defendants perpetrated an affinity fraud, raising at least $16.5 million from mostly African-Americans and Christians by falsely representing they would receive returns through investments in, among other things, real estate, small businesses, and "markets of the world."

California Investment Adviser bilked Korean Investors

Investment adviser raised more than $36 million by inducing members of the Korean-American community to invest funds with promises of large returns. Investors funds were not invested in accounts of a New York brokerage firm as represented; rather defendants put funds in bank accounts and fabricated monthly account statements. The adviser has pleaded guilty to related criminal charges.

Armenian-American community loses more than $19 Million

This affinity fraud targeted Armenian-Americans with little investment experience, for some of whom English was a second language. The architect of this fraud was later indicted.

Criminal charges against South Florida man for $51.9 million fraud

African-American victims of this investment scheme were guaranteed that their investments would generate a 30% risk-free and tax-free annual return.

"Church Funding Project" costs faithful investors over $3 Million

This nationwide scheme primarily targeted African-American churches and raised at least $3 million from over 1000 investing churches located throughout the United States. Believing they would receive large sums of money from the investments, many of the church victims committed to building projects, acquired new debt, spent building funds, and contracted with builders.

Baptist investors lose over $3.5 Million

The victims of this fraud were mainly African-American Baptists, many of whom were elderly and disabled, as well as a number of Baptist churches and religious organizations located in a number of states. The promoter (Randolph, who was a minister himself and who is currently in jail) promised returns ranging between 7 and 30%, but in reality was operating a Ponzi scheme. In addition to a jail sentence, Randolph was ordered to pay $1 million in the SEC's civil action.

More than 1,000 Latin-American investors lose over $400 Million

The victims sought low risk investments. Instead, the two promoters (who received prison terms of seven and 12 years respectively) misappropriated their funds and lied about how much money was in their accounts.

125 members of various Christian churches lose $7.4 million

The fraudsters allegedly sold members non-existent "prime bank" trading programs by using a sales pitch heavily laden with Biblical references and by enlisting members of the church communities to unwittingly spread the word about the bogus investment.

$2.5 million stolen from 100 Texas senior citizens

The fraudsters obtained information about the assets and financial condition of the elderly victims who were encouraged to liquidate their safe retirement savings and to invest in securities with higher returns. In reality, the fraudsters never invested the money and stole the funds.

If you have lost money in an affinity fraud scheme or have information about one of these scams, you should contact:

* The SEC Complaint Centre.

* Your state's securities administrator. You can find links and addresses for your state regulator by visiting the North American Securities Administrators Association's website. That organization also has investor tips for avoiding affinity fraud.

You also can check the SEC’s Investor Claims Funds webpage for information concerning the appointment of a receiver or claims administrator in any SEC enforcement action.

http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/affinity.htm

[eigga99]

The best advice I have seen for this kind of program, if you have to participate, is to get in early, get your initial deposit back and then play with the house money. Treat every one like a scam and you can still make money at it but don't be a scumbag and convince granny she needs to put house on the market and get in 9 months into it. :nono:

I recommend anybody who feels duped by this program to read the Matrixwatch and Moneymaker threads that quote all CEP forums and try to do so objectively. Then decide who the bad guys are in this. Anybody who doesn't put part of the blame on themselves is asking to be duped again.

This is stealing just the same. Is it not? If you know that you are making money off of people that will eventually be victims. Who cares if it is grandma or 200K a year lawyer? I have learned a lot and will do my part to inform as many as possible that HIYP are frauds. If you want more money....work harder.:)

[Sucker in ATL]

This is stealing just the same. Is it not?

As much as Vegas is stealing. Sombody has to loose and it ain't the house. One would argue that at least everybody knows what they are getting into.

But do they really?

Did anybody on here actually sign up and believe Trevor when he said 0% risk? Honestly?


If you know that you are making money off of people that will eventually be victims. Who cares if it is grandma or 200K a year lawyer?

I think that participating individually and not being a part of the propagation of the program is wholly different than soliciting people late in the game, or taking money from somebody who you know can not afford to loose it.


I have learned a lot and will do my part to inform as many as possible that HIYP are frauds. If you want more money....work harder.:)

Did you really think in the beginning that it would last? Did you really think that people weren't going to loose big time?

So semantics asside I really was giving advice to the me's out there who want to learn all the lessons that can be learned from this fiasco. There are a large number of people out there that know how to work Ponzi's. They don't always start out as Ponzi's either.

I find the Religious cult tactics of the admins much more disgusting.

[eigga99]

I am not a victim. My dad however is. Yes, he really thought "Trevor" was a good guy and had his ducks in a row. Not everyone involved was an informed Ponzi rider that figures that a hit and run on a Ponzi is O.K. That is the difference. Vegas does not recruit you as an investment. ALL MONEY TAKEN FROM A PONZI SCHEME IS STEALING FROM SOMEONE.

[Sucker in ATL]

Keep working hard man.

When the stock market crashed in 1929 how many hard working people lost all that they had?

If you think you are isolated from that happening again you are fooling yourself.


Personally I'd rather have somebody who knows how to identify a Ponzi scheme get a little bit of that money before the Admins and Pimps take their cut. IN MY OPINION. I think it's wrong to participate in the deception itself or to push it onto other people.

If your dad had made money in the program and was able to cover his bills would you have made him give it back? Would you call him a thief?

[eigga99]

This is the last post I will do on this issue. This could go on forever I believe. The answer is yes. He would have been stealing...even if you aren't aware of it. That is what irritates me the most. Not everyone knows about these scams. I sure didn't until this one went sour and I got curious. I think a lot of people are going to be shocked that they were receiving "dirty" money. Why didn't they take "Trevor" 's passport? Can you really travel outside of the U.S. when they are on your case? I hope he likes prison.

[Accountant]

Keep working hard man.

When the stock market crashed in 1929 how many hard working people lost all that they had?

Very few actually as less than 2% of the population had any holdings in the stock market, what really ruined a lot of people's lives was 9 months later when banks started to fail because they all had THEIR money in the stock market, and that boys is girls is exactly why the SEC was formed, so that when one massive fraud happens it cannot cascade out to ruin the entire economy

If you think you are isolated from that happening again you are fooling yourself.

Until the Federal Reserve Bank was initiated, there was on average a minor depression every 7 years, every other one being a deep depression and in US History 4 of them being full scaled Depressions. If you really want to know, it really all boils down to farmers need money in one cycle and rich people want it in another that does not mesh well with the farmers, from there it gets kind of complicated, but trust me, the Federal Reserve Bank is the only reason it hasn't happened since

Personally I'd rather have somebody who knows how to identify a Ponzi scheme get a little bit of that money before the Admins and Pimps take their cut. IN MY OPINION. I think it's wrong to participate in the deception itself or to push it onto other people.

It's stealing, you're just negotiating how much of the work you propose doing yourself and how much you'll let others do

If your dad had made money in the program and was able to cover his bills would you have made him give it back? Would you call him a thief?
Yes, I would, but as I handle my father's finances I don't have to worry about it. If your father doesn't know any better perhaps you should consider a more active roll in his before he loses it all. Not many of the people on MMG are first timers

Stealing is stealing, period. If you inadvertantly ended up with stolen funds, you have a moral obligation to return it. your position seems to be closer to "if you think you'll get caught you should return it"

[Sucker in ATL]

When the stock market crashed in 1929 how many hard working people lost all that they had?


Very few actually as less than 2% of the population had any holdings in the stock market, what really ruined a lot of people's lives was 9 months later when banks started to fail because they all had THEIR money in the stock market, and that boys is girls is exactly why the SEC was formed, so that when one massive fraud happens it cannot cascade out to ruin the entire economy

Notice I didn't say how many people lost all they had not all they had in the stock market. It is actually the FDIC that was created to insure the banks from collapse. The Fed establish cash reserve requirements among other things. ;)


Until the Federal Reserve Bank was initiated, there was on average a minor depression every 7 years, every other one being a deep depression and in US History 4 of them being full scaled Depressions. If you really want to know, it really all boils down to farmers need money in one cycle and rich people want it in another that does not mesh well with the farmers, from there it gets kind of complicated, but trust me, the Federal Reserve Bank is the only reason it hasn't happened since

I'd say WWII was the only reason it hasn't happened since. The 80's were pretty brutal as well. I doubt the Federal Reserve could sustain a collapse of any other world market securities exchange. It can no longer isolate us from a collapse. It served it's purpose but our risk far outweighs our reserves. Kinda like a Ponzi :applause:


It's stealing, you're just negotiating how much of the work you propose doing yourself and how much you'll let others do

I guess dude. I don't define stealing by the law of the land. There are crooks on both sides of the law. It is not my job to educate you, tell you what to do with your money or anything of the sort. You'll never identify a good ponzi player cause you'll never hear from one. I'm not a big proponent of principal, used to be, but now I deal with economies of scale when I judge peoples actions.

Are you a thief if you sell your car for $50 more than it is worth? Are you deceiving your buyer? Is it your fault he doesn't know what the car is worth?

Stealing is stealing, period. If you inadvertantly ended up with stolen funds, you have a moral obligation to return it. your position seems to be closer to "if you think you'll get caught you should return it"

You have a legal obligation to return it. I don't see the world as black and white as you do. I promise you my morality is a lot different than yours. We all gotta share the same rock so let's get the real *******s instead of trying to get everyone to conform to an unrealistic ideal. Just my feeling on most bang for 'buck'.