Is this opinion or fact?

[Cookie]

That anyone at all who "earned money" through CEP will be required to pay it all back at 12% interest?

This has me a little concerned. Haven't we been hurt enough by CEP? To think it'll still come back to bite us the butt is simply too much for my weary brain tonight.

I had put in a few thousand dollars in April. I finally got my first payout in May, just days before it went defunct.

So were are Skye, Moboking, Pam and all the rest??? The CEPCoast site is down too, as of this evening. There is nothing left of CEP anymore. They better not try another newscast. That is a JOKE!!

[Accountant]

Yes, the people who took out more than they put in are going to have to pay it back, and with interest. Skye, Moboking and Pamela are going to have pay back all their "profits" and could even get to go to prison. If you watched the newscasts and put in money to any of the CEP funds after seeing it, you can file a civil case against those individuals who participated in them, if you hurry you can get to them before the SEC does if they so choose, but the law is very clear on third party liabilities in fraud cases. All you really have to prove is that you saw the newscast before you invested any funds, even if you put in some before, if you put any in after you saw one, you have a decent chance of getting some refund from them.
Of course, you can only get what they have and you have to beat the SEC and other victims to them, first with a judgement, forst to get paid!

[MtnGrl]

They better not try another newscast. That is a JOKE!!

Pamela and Moboking say there will be a newscast this week. I believe it is on Friday again. Your hosts for this one are Moboking and Chris. No Pamela and no Skye. It will be very carefully worded by Chris' attorney from what I understand.

[Accountant]

Hope it's the saame attorney who told Trevor he didn't need to register with the SEC

[libby]

Hope it's the saame attorney who told Trevor he didn't need to register with the SEC

Some of the members started a rumor that an attorney gave Trevor the bad advice, then it became known that he had taken the advice of Clayton on the SEC registration issue.

Don't forget, Clayton has a year of law school.:crazy:

[HonestIncome]

Hope it's the saame attorney who told Trevor he didn't need to register with the SEC
lol Trevor did not get any advice from an attorney about the SEC

Trevor never talked to an attorney about CEP until he got that little
surprise letter from the SEC and he needed to save his own arse

Trevors advice was from his partner in crime Clayton or he just
made it up on the spot as a cover story when he was asked
the SEC question on a forum (can't remember which one)

I have to say that Trevor signing the consent degree on 7/7/07
was the perfect wedding gift for a low down lying, deceiving,
scamming two bit theif. Even the Ferret said he hoped that
would happen in one of his posts.

Trevor was not even a very good ponzi scammer and made many
basic mistakes that even Kim Inman / YMMSS before him avoided.

From my research I do believe his father Earl Reed was involved
and Claytons or Chriss father was involved too. This is not unusual
as Kim Inmans, wife, mother, daughter and son were involved or
were staff in YMMSS.
The family that scams together STAys together....

Now that the SEC has revealed most of what was happening behind
the scenes in CEP the only surprise to me was that Trevor had
exaggerated the membership number by so much. 5,000 instead of
16,000. I never believed that the CEP websites financial stats were
accurate or truthfull but over 3 times was damming proof of Trevors
dishonesty. I was not surprised at all by learning that basically no
CEP records were being kept and that there were no brick and mortar
investments.

The only thing I don't understand is how anyone can now defend
Trevor Reed as an honest, christian who was only trying to help
and all the other crap he said about himself on the CEP website
and in his very vague email updates.

[HonestIncome]

Pamela and Moboking say there will be a newscast this week. I believe it is on Friday again. Your hosts for this one are Moboking and Chris. No Pamela and no Skye. It will be very carefully worded by Chris' attorney from what I understand.
So in other words they will be saying a whole lot of nothing :p

It might be worth watching for the entertainment though.

[pureguava]

Where is it legaly documented that it has to be paid back at 12%?

[MtnGrl]

So in other words they will be saying a whole lot of nothing :p

Yeah so what's new? They've always been that way!

[Accountant]

Where is it legaly documented that it has to be paid back at 12%?

Specifically mentioned in the Consent Decree

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the Receiver shall have and possess all
powers and rights to administer and manage the Receiver Estate, including, but not
limited to the power and authority to:

...


To the broadest extent allowed under applicable law, the Receiver, in his
sole discretion, is authorized to file and prosecute any civil action or other
proceeding that could be filed by a receiver, generally, or by any defendant subject
to this Receivership. This authority includes, but is in no way limited to,
prosecuting actions or proceedings to impose a constructive trust, obtain
possession and/or recover judgment with respect to persons or entities who
received assets or funds traceable to investor monies. All such actions shall be
filed in this Court. Moreover, the Receiver, in his discretion, is authorized to
prosecute, defend, settle, compromise or adjust any pending or future action or
proceeding as may be advisable or proper for the protection and administration of
the Receiver Estate.

Legal way of saying that the receiver is going to make you all give back all the profits.

[pureguava]

Maybe it's a good thing I'm in the hole 6 figures then....

[Accountant]

And that paticular clause is very widely interpreted by past precedent in the same circuit. It has been successfully used to say the defendents attorney should not get paid (because the only way the defendent can pay him is to use victims funds) among other things. It is the reason Charis Johnson's agreement sets aside funds for legal defense, to protect her lawyers from this clause, and it is the clasue used in many cases like this used to go after the unearned profits of early investors.

[Accountant]

in fact...

Scam victims to receive first payments from other victims
By Ed White - The Grand Rapids Press

01/05 - GRAND RAPIDS -- The trustee overseeing the cleanup of West Michigan's largest investment fraud is poised to make the first payment to people who lost money.

The trustee's legal team has $15 million available to investors with approved claims. The plan, which awaits a bankruptcy judge's OK, is to pay 30 percent of each claim, perhaps in February.

The ultimate goal is to return 80 percent for each dollar lost with Dan Broucek.

"We are very pleased to make this distribution, and we have every belief that there will be additional distributions," said Steven Rayman, co-counsel for bankruptcy trustee Tom Bruinsma.

Broucek is serving a seven-year prison sentence for fraud. For a decade, he paid high rates of interest to people who lent money to his business, Pupler Distributing. The Grand Rapids man said he was buying and reselling large loads of household goods but it was a sham.

He collected more than $130 million, though much of it went to investors as interest or commissions. The amount of approved losses is $35 million.

Bruinsma's legal team has been gathering money by suing investors who finished in the black when the scheme collapsed in November 2002, even if they were unaware of fraud. Those profits are being shared with the losers.

"We know exactly who each claimant is and the right amount of their claim," Rayman said.

[Accountant]

you'll notice this is three years after the defendent was jailed, which was two years after they shut down the scam....

[Cookie]

With what you quoted, where are you getting the "payback with 12%"? I don't see those figures. I even printed off the same document you quoted.

I also don't understand where the paid back funds would go? Since Trevor didn't steal to pay us, there's no restitution needs to be made, except for the money Trevor took from us members!

I didn't make a profit, so it really doesn't concern me too greatly for my own situation, however, other members having to pay back does not seem the slightest bit fair. Trevor not only took money and lied about everything, he stole dreams and hopes (and even lives, in extreme cases) for thousands of people. Those are things he will never be able to repay.

Another thing, if assets are frozen, then Trevor can't use credit cards on his honeymoon. So unless he took a ton of cash, he's up a creek without a paddle! His home, cars, and everything of his are now NOT his anymore.

If he really was naive and ignorant about the proper proceedings of business like this, then he's learning a super tough lesson the hard way.

My dh and I were talking about the discrepancy between Trevor's 16,000 members vs. SEC's 5,000. We think that technically, Trevor is right. If each household signed up a couple family members, there's 15,000 people, using SEC's numbers. But most likely, a good many of those accounts weren't funded yet. So that's why the SEC can only find 5,000 active accounts. Does that make sense? :yes: :shake:

I dunno. I'm sick at heart, sick at the pit of stomach and very very blue. By the end of the summer, we were planning to be out of debt. We are in dire need of a newer van. Ours is old and keeps falling apart. We were so close to finally seeing financial relief and all of a sudden it was jerked away. This is just so frustrating.:rant: i seriously hope Trevor is hiding in fear behind his sofa and eating bread and water instead of sunning himself in the Caribbean.

[Accountant]

Teh 12% rate is published in the federal Register, it's updated every year and is the rate that for the most part the government charges on a moounts you owe them due to adverse action, there is a different and separate rate for back taxes, I;m sure because someone somewhere owed enough to make it cheaper for him to bribe a congressman to insert a single sentence saying so into a bill 1,400 pages long, but that's another complaint....

The paid back funds will go to the majority of investors who put in far more than they got out, the cost of going after it will eat up a lot of it, the receiver gets paid by the size of the estate so his percentage is more or less fixed, he has every incentive to get as much as can be gotten. The fines Trevor and Clayton will have to pay are paid AFTER the investors are refunded, so the SEC fines anyway will not actually be paid, Trevor and Clayton will not live long enough to see that kind of money again, they also are going to get heavy fines in their upcoming criminal trial, but like I said, it's going to be hard for them to pay back a $12 million in restitution and another 2-3 million in fines on the kind of money an ex-con makes at Burger King. I wich I could say their minimum wage was going to be garnished for the rest of their lives, but sadly they will eventually have the fines at least forgiven. The restitution is another matter. It's up to the Judge, but it is possible that they could be paying that the rest of their lives, OJ Simpson is going to pay Ron Goldman and family until the day he dies, although pension income is exempt from garnishment and there are good reasons OJ is looking for the real killers on Golf Courses in Florida instead of California. Alas, Trevor and Clayton, not having a legitimate $10 million net worth at the start of the proceedings are not getting the kind of legal advice OJ has enjoyed. Sorry, the Dream Team don't work what is left of $4000 a month after taxes and expenses.

The SEC number is identified account holders, they wouldn't have made a big point of the discrepency if it wasn't apparent that there was some member inflation, and that the mistatements were in fact material to the fraud.

I have yet to hear that Trevor and Ginger did in fact marry Saturday. I can't help but think it's going to ruin anniversary parties for a long time if they did. You don't need a passport to go to the carribean right now, they delayed that, and of course the US Virgin Islands are US territory...
I hope he gets sunburned myself....nothing makes you look more silly than a perp walk with bad sunburn

[burned@cep]

Some of the members started a rumor that an attorney gave Trevor the bad advice, then it became known that he had taken the advice of Clayton on the SEC registration issue.

Don't forget, Clayton has a year of law school.:crazy:

make sure you dont attend Clayton's law school then, coz even non-law students would know that businesses, foreign or domestic, are required to get their appropriate license to operate lawfully in the place where they are actually conducting their business...

cookie, the 12% is the LEGAL INTEREST, it is fixed by law, and when a court's order mentions no specific interest rate, it is understood to be 12% being the default legal interest applicable to cases involving recovery of money... of course, it varies with each country, but 12% seems to be the prevailing rate, even in my country, the Philippines.

[concerned]

I didn't make a profit, so it really doesn't concern me too greatly for my own situation, however, other members having to pay back does not seem the slightest bit fair. Trevor not only took money and lied about everything, he stole dreams and hopes (and even lives, in extreme cases) for thousands of people. Those are things he will never be able to repay.

You don't think it is fair for them to give it back? Well, maybe you forget, but participating in a pyramid scheme is ALSO illegal, so maybe instead of paying the money back, they can work it off while they sit in jail.

[nomore]

It is very fair. They made there money from the investors that lost. See.... The last investors money was used to pay the ones in profit. It is not their money, it is the money of the ones who lost!

[Accountant]

Teh 12% rate is published in the federal Register, it's updated every year and is the rate that for the most part the government charges on a moounts you owe them due to adverse action, there is a different and separate rate for back taxes, I;m sure because someone somewhere owed enough to make it cheaper for him to bribe a congressman to insert a single sentence saying so into a bill 1,400 pages long, but that's another complaint....

The paid back funds will go to the majority of investors who put in far more than they got out, the cost of going after it will eat up a lot of it, the receiver gets paid by the size of the estate so his percentage is more or less fixed, he has every incentive to get as much as can be gotten. The fines Trevor and Clayton will have to pay are paid AFTER the investors are refunded, so the SEC fines anyway will not actually be paid, Trevor and Clayton will not live long enough to see that kind of money again, they also are going to get heavy fines in their upcoming criminal trial, but like I said, it's going to be hard for them to pay back a $12 million in restitution and another 2-3 million in fines on the kind of money an ex-con makes at Burger King. I wich I could say their minimum wage was going to be garnished for the rest of their lives, but sadly they will eventually have the fines at least forgiven. The restitution is another matter. It's up to the Judge, but it is possible that they could be paying that the rest of their lives, OJ Simpson is going to pay Ron Goldman and family until the day he dies, although pension income is exempt from garnishment and there are good reasons OJ is looking for the real killers on Golf Courses in Florida instead of California. Alas, Trevor and Clayton, not having a legitimate $10 million net worth at the start of the proceedings are not getting the kind of legal advice OJ has enjoyed. Sorry, the Dream Team don't work what is left of $4000 a month after taxes and expenses.

The SEC number is identified account holders, they wouldn't have made a big point of the discrepency if it wasn't apparent that there was some member inflation, and that the mistatements were in fact material to the fraud.

I have yet to hear that Trevor and Ginger did in fact marry Saturday. I can't help but think it's going to ruin anniversary parties for a long time if they did. You don't need a passport to go to the carribean right now, they delayed that, and of course the US Virgin Islands are US territory...
I hope he gets sunburned myself....nothing makes you look more silly than a perp walk with bad sunburn


The part I highlighted above is incorrect, a bankruptcy trustee is paid relevent to the size of the estate but a change in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure a few years ago now pays receivers per billing hours and expenses. Sorry for the mistake.

[pureguava]

If CEP doesn't have any money left, then those not in profit will only be getting it from those members in profit who will be paying it back.

[Accountant]

If CEP doesn't have any money left, then those not in profit will only be getting it from those members in profit who will be paying it back.


Correct, and in spite of what Jeff M (Executive) is saying on MMG, the SEC does in fact go after the winners in over 80% of cases like this. There will be floor amount which they consider it not worth going after, but everyone above that amount will have to give it all back.

Take a read of the 12DP receivers report, in the second report you'll see that the judge has asked for some figures in the group of people who made between $5000 and $10,000....he's sending a strong signal that he wants the restitution to begin with people in this group...

[pureguava]

I wonder how they will figure that amount out. Some were in CEP, C88 and CEPCoast. Is all that counted?

Plus you have to consider what sources will they condier.

I knew someone who put in $ from e-gold, not their bank account, then got paid to their bank account only once. If they look at it wrong, it will show profit made that way and they will have to pay that back.

[burned@cep]

^that's what the receiver and his horde of employees will be working on... find a way to supposedly distribute the funds/estate in the most equitable manner... that is, after they secure their piece of the cake, minus all payables and taxes...