FOLLOW UP EMAIL FOR EBANANA CUSTOMERS

[ebanana]

Below is the message sent out to eBanana customers to clarify the situation:


Hello eBanana customers:

Yesterday you received an e-mail from us regarding the necessity to refund your payout back to eBanana due to a court order. There has been a misinformation, and this needs explaining.

On September 16, 2003, eBanana received a message from CCG stating that Ginix is demanding $42000. Upon a telephone conversation with a representative of CCG, we had been led to believe that CCG would recover the money from the possessor of these funds.

THIS IS NOT TRUE.

There had been a misunderstanding, but the only person affected in this collections matter is myself, Adam Rybinski, owner of eBanana.

We had prepared papers for the collections of monies from the payout recipients, but have just cancelled this, as we have found out there is NO LEGAL GROUNDS to recover these funds from you.

What does this mean to you, the payout recipient? This means that you will NOT be contacted to recover these funds, and have no legal requirement at this point to return the funds to us. Also, the legal grounds for Ginix’s actions is not a RESULT of the case against that company, but a legal precaution should the case be successful in the future.

By law, eBanana and its owner are held liable for these funds, not yourself. So we ask that at this time, you no longer worry about your credit rating, or anything related to it. At this time, you are not involved in this case, and have no reason to be alarmed.

HOWEVER, just because you are not responsible now means you will not be liable in the future. When the court judgement in the Ginix case is made, if it is in favour of the plaintiff, eBanana will be required to pay back all funds spent by customers. The judgement would have deemed a matrix site to be an illegal lottery, and all customers who took part in a lottery are liable to return winnings back to its rightful owners.

At this point we would like to REQUEST that you return the funds back to eBanana. Although you have no legal responsibility to do so, and can keep the money until the judgement is passed, we ask that you consider the customers. Ginix has requested $42000 from us because customers have requested refunds; they wanted out of the matrix. This money is needed to assist the customers who want a refund.

REMEMBER, while you are not required to return the payout at this time, YOU MAY HAVE TO RETURN IT IN THE FUTURE.

If you choose to return the payment, below is a chart of how much you owe eBanana. For each payout/item you have received, you are required to return the following amount for each gift.

MATRIX RETURN SCHEDULE
ANY Videogame $46
Game Boy Advance SP $89
Nintendo GameCube $125
Microsoft Xbox $184
Sony Playstation2 $184
Sony DVD-RW $307
Canon Elph S230 $356
$100US Check $55
HP iPaq h5450 $600
Sony R505 Mini-Laptop $1520
Gateway/Dell Power PC $1907
Kenwood KVT-911 $1606
Gateway 42" Plasma $2955

ALL VALUES ARE IN USD$

EXAMPLE
• If you received payout for 2 Kenwood KVT-911, you owe $1606x2=$3212US
• If you received payout for 1 $100US Check and 1 Gateway Power PC, you owe $55+$1907=$1962

The return values above have been discounted for the following:
• Original Purchase Price has been deducted (not required to be returned)
• $5 has been deducted for postage ($0.60), and for the cost of a Western Union Money Order (or Cashiers Check or Bank Draft)

eBanana’s account executive is Adam Rybinski. He will be handling the receipt and processing of all payments. All letters must be addressed and mailed to:

Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated. Since the collapse of many matrix sites, many customers have been left with no money, since it all went to the customers who cycled. Now is your chance to set things straight before the judgement, and return the funds to the hands of the customers it rightfully belongs in.

We regret the confusion caused last night, and hope this clears things up.

eBanana Administration Dept.

[gota2loveit]

eBanana it looks like your just going t have to go to a lawyer and declare Bankruptcy but you will need just a couple hundred for you to do this, you as the owner are responsible nobody is going to go after the people to get mony back it's just a scare tactic ,it would cost to much to get all those people and when you gave it to them in the first place ,Ginix is demanding $42000 from you and nobody else and when you declare Bankruptcy you better figure what your total amount is going to be.nobody is going to send you anything unless they have a court order to do so but if you do the bankruptcy you could save yourself and everybody else alot of trouble.

[hello]

Ebanana's website is begging people for money, lol. They made their bed and now have to lie in it. That is what you get for not seeking a lawyer to tell you that you should have never opened up an illegal matrix site (ponzi scheme).

[hello]

Besides, this is too funny, eBanana is asking for the money back that they gave out, what would happen if the person did not take the money but the gift. For example, you took the XBOX, you've played with it etc., now what, you are to return it to them. LMAO.

The owner of eBanana is in the mess alone, besides, what is the worst that can happen. He will go to jail and learn his lesson.

[Agent|Star]

Hhehee... I just visited the site now, how long has it looked like this?

Anyhow eBanana I would have gladdly donated money to you.... I did cycle and recieve a gift, the only site that I can show for something after cycling... HONESTLY! I would have sent you a donation, but after what you tried to pull yesturday with your BULLSH*T email sorry for you... I doubt anyone will donate anything...

[hello]

Here is the opening page from eBanana for those interested.

"Hello, my name is Adam Rybinski, and I am owner of eBanana.net.

eBanana.net is a 'matrix site'. For those unfamiliar with how a matrix site works, I will try and explain it to you. When a customers buys an eBook (or whatever item the store is selling), that person is entered into the bottom of a list. Once a certain amount of people join the list beneath this person, the person receives a gift, called a 'payout'.

The site continued till about mid June, when Ginix, a company we had used to provide credit card services to eBanana customers, had frozen our account with them, as well as 29 other matrix sites online. This was due to a lawsuit suing Ginix. Once the accounts had been frozen, I took action and set up a refund schedule to refund as many customers as I possibly could have, using the monies still left in the account frozen. Things had been looking good (many customers had been refunded), until this week. On September 16, 2003, eBanana was contacted by CCG, a collections agency representing Ginix. They claim that eBanana owes Ginix $42000 to cover more refunds. After having a conversation with CCG, I was under the impression that I was able to contact the payout recipients to collect the payouts, since they were in possession of it, but it turns out that I myself am responsible and accountable for this value.

It is here where things turn awful. I am a University Student, I had started this site to earn extra money for tuition, some spending cash, and maybe even save up a little for my future as well. But when Ginix froze my accounts, I found out that most of the money I received from GInix at the beginning had already gone to the customers who received payouts, and I was left with very little. They now want me to pay $42000 immediately, and I have nearly nothing. Ginix now threatens to sue both myself and my immediate family if they do not receive this money soon. I went in on this venture myself, I did not involve my family, and if anybody gets hurt, it should not be my family since they had nothing to do with the site. I want to take full responsibility, but they won't listen.

I sent a letter to the payout repicients saying they were responsible for this, but I was wrong. It is me who is responsible for this money. I have appealed to the payout recipients to help both myself and the customers whom this money is for in this matter, but I have little reason to believe they will want to give up the money until the law requires them to.

What I'm asking now is for YOUR HELP. Since I can't come up with this money alone, I am asking for YOUR DONATION of $1, $2, or any amount you choose, to help me pay off this debt. I had no choice but to put down over $9000 to the collections agency already, and that has helped me a bit - they have agreed to postpone the lawsuit, as long as I continue to pay $8400 each month for the next four months. If I fail to pay, they will sue right away.

Many people say I don't deserve to get any money, and I should live up to my actions, and that's true. But if I knew that things would turn out as they have, I would never have even had a second thought about starting a matrix site. I was just like one of the tens of matrix site owners out there. We all thought "what a great idea", an easy way to get cash. It took a while, but in the end, we saw that the worst thing any of us could have done was to open up a matrix site.

If you can spare a dollar or two, or anything you like, please do so. I will be forever indebted to you, since you will have helped to save my life.

Adam Rybinski
Owner of eBanana.net"

[concerned]

MORE EXTORTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I cannot believe that you would even try to use a lame excuse about you being a poor college student, even if you are. I went to college, and had to take out a loan, which I have to pay now. You are so crooked.

To ALL ebanana customers. Do not believe a word out of his mouth. In fact, if I were you, I would talk to my credit card company. Since he has your number, you never know if he will just try to do a charge. Here is what I would do.

1)Cancel the card, and get another one.

OR

2)Ask your credit card company for another credit card number. This way, even if they try to charge you, it will be an invalid number.

OR

3)Warn your CC company about this company, and ask them not to authorize a charge.

YOU ALL NEED TO PROTECT YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!
DON'T TRUST A WORD OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS!!!!!!!

[Agent|Star]

Thats good advice... I used StormPay I'll be closing all payprocessor accounts with everything except PayPal...

[concerned]

Originally posted by BigStarr
Thats good advice... I used StormPay I'll be closing all payprocessor accounts with everything except PayPal...

That is also good advise. For most internt customers, you should only need one pay processor account. I never heard of any other one of these processors excpet PayPal until I saw these matrix sites. Some of these pay processors were actually set up ONLY to serve matrix customers.

[MatrixWatch]

I think that the new email sent out is a step in the right direction. However, I see a tactic that is present in the first letter and I want it clarified as well:


HOWEVER, just because you are not responsible now means you will not be liable in the future. When the court judgement in the Ginix case is made, if it is in favour of the plaintiff, eBanana will be required to pay back all funds spent by customers. The judgement would have deemed a matrix site to be an illegal lottery, and all customers who took part in a lottery are liable to return winnings back to its rightful owners.


Where are the legal grounds for this statement? Please cite a case that set this precident. The owner of eBanana stated in the FAQ's that the program was 100% legal because they sold eBooks, not a spot in the matrix. That makes the owner of eBanana completely liable for misinforming the customers. I don't want any fear tactics being used to extort money from the customers. Not even the fear of future court orders. If Ginix wants that money back, then they can be the ones to find a legal way to get it from the customers. No one should give a dime to a matrix-site owner, no matter what he says.

On the other hand, the request for donations on the website is a little more appropriate. It gives the story and asks for help. No fear tactics or anything. I'm okay with that.

[Agent|Star]

Yep the second email starts out in the right direction but ends horribly....

[maywest13]

I have to say, if I hadn't received one of those letters yesterday demanding money from me... I probably would have donated a little. But now I feel like I've been harassed... why would I help someone who threatened me? Maybe I'll feel diferently in a few weeks after I lose this nausiating feeling in the pit of my stomac.

[MatrixWatch]

You could donate to Matrix Watch :)

[concerned]

Originally posted by watchdog
I think that the new email sent out is a step in the right direction. However, I see a tactic that is present in the first letter and I want it clarified as well:



Where are the legal grounds for this statement? Please cite a case that set this precident. The owner of eBanana stated in the FAQ's that the program was 100% legal because they sold eBooks, not a spot in the matrix. That makes the owner of eBanana completely liable for misinforming the customers. I don't want any fear tactics being used to extort money from the customers. Not even the fear of future court orders. If Ginix wants that money back, then they can be the ones to find a legal way to get it from the customers. No one should give a dime to a matrix-site owner, no matter what he says.

On the other hand, the request for donations on the website is a little more appropriate. It gives the story and asks for help. No fear tactics or anything. I'm okay with that.

Maybe, if you site owners would have posted, these are 100% ILLEGAL, then you would have a leg to stand on. You cannot tell someone it is 100% legal, and then threaten them that they did something ILLEGAL. They only participated because you ASSURED them it was OK. NOW, THAT WAS ILLEGAL.

[maywest13]

I'm not sure about how things work in the US legal system, but I know that in Canada, ignorance is not a defence. You can't say "I'm not liable because I didn't know that what I was doing was illegal". So, if it is illegal to participate in a Matrix site, then the fact that the site owner said that it is legal would not protect the customer. But I don't know if it is illegal to paticipate in a matrix site. I do know that I did not exactly know how the cycling worked when I first signed on and that I also believed that I was buying the e-books and that the matrix was a bonus (althought I was only interested in the "gift"), so I didn't think it was illegal. I was ignorant!

[muggs]

It is the same in the US ignorance is not a defense.

muggs

[concerned]

Originally posted by Muggs
It is the same in the US ignorance is not a defense.

muggs

Customers won't need to deal with this since they were lead into a false belief that these sites WERE legal. At one time, site owners thought that their TOS which states they are 100% LEGAL would save them in court, but more likely, that specific statement will cause the owners to also take 100% of the responsibility.

Their TOS worked against them in the end.

[MatrixWatch]

...and we told them this too. We have told customers to stay away from sites like Applematrix as well. Do they listen? Of course we come off a little zealous, and it is difficult for people to not get defensive. However, I hope that what we have been correct about in the past will now create a future respect for our advice. So, what is our advice?

Every matrix site on the internet needs to begin a refund process with their cusotmers and close their sites down with a message posted for contact information.

[MatrixWatch]

Now, the eBanana site had a message up about how the email was false and that Ginix is soley collecting from eBanana, not the customers. Well, www.ebanana.net has taken that message down, and now they have their regular site up. I figured that it would be good to leave the message up for at least another two weeks for those customers who are still duped by the message. Why did the whole "donations" message get taken down so quickly?

[The Black Pearl]

Any updates on eBanana? I haven't heard anything in a very long time?

[ycchen]

Originally posted by watchdog
.... So, what is our advice?

Every matrix site on the internet needs to begin a refund process with their cusotmers and close their sites down with a message posted for contact information.

I think ebanana case gives an encouraing message for customers who still stuck in the matrix-sites, whether you are super speculators or genuinely innocent newbies.

Many in this form have been urging owners to "do the right thing" before getting sued, but only very few actually did the refund. Here are few options for existing owners.

(1) Closed down and hide away. The only problem is that you have to make sure that your real identity and address will not be traced in anyway. If you cannot hide your real identity, then there is a risk you might get sued.

(2) Whether you want to drag and wait, or close down and hide, every owners are exposed to lawsuit. Unless there are some miracle, or else, I expected every owners to lose in the future lawsuit. They can either declare bankrupsy or ask their parents to settle the refund or go to jail.

(3) For those owner who still 'wait and see' or still 'actively scam money' like gotmatrix, I guess it is probably wiser to STOP the scam and begin to the refund process. Gotmatrix might be too late because their liabilities to the uncycled customers is HUGE, at least $315,000 as of Nov. 2003 (See the report on gotmatrix liabilities and refund).
http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/attachment.php?postid=9223

However, other smaller matrix-sites should begin to negotiate with the customers for a realistic refund plan. I think sincere owners who initiate a refund negotiation might be less likely to get sued by disgrunted customers. Of course, they can also ask those cycled members for some donation simutaneously.

Just my 0.2 cents.

[The Black Pearl]

Yychen possibly you missed the point of my post. I know all about tactics. I'm just wondering what the current status is of Adam, Ebanana and his customers. Possibly Watchdog may have some info on this or maybe Adam himself could respond.

Thanks.

[ycchen]

I am as curious as you regarding the latest update. My previous post was a follow-up of WD's post, not yours. Sorry about the confusion.